This argument is like believing that cats and dogs are actually falling from the sky. you are quite an aroggant atheist , as are any that are, but to no offense to atheists it is a fact. The bible is full of symbolism and you would know that if you read the bible instead of googling anything to disprove god as all atheists do when making such videos. not impressed
@ClayMeansImmortal So, the biblical descriptions of the earth that I cover in this series are really only "symbolic." Do tell. Or, are you in the habit if just calling people names and making unsupported assertions?
@ClayMeansImmortal I have read the bible almost 3 times compleatly it has made me a better athiest, and arrogant discribes christians better than it ever did a athiest.
They always knew it was round, that's how the parthenon was built, so in mythology, they at least knew it then. It's just a western dragon story so you have no use of a huge map without a motor in your boat.
@d007ization Do you think many people are well prepared as I'am? No. What about the people in large cities? It's a sure thing that rioting,looting and shootings will erupt, then you'll recall the bible early warnings, and how it has tried to change the heart of man.
Again I've said, the u.s. is about to collapse. Do you think everybody will be in there best behavior when the u.s. economy collapse? The law needs to be taught,and god laws starts at the very thoughts of man.
@pillowhole Do you think God or (religious) zealotry ever stopped anyone? What we need to do is plan ahead and not cower and hope for a salvation that will never come.
@pepilindo The consequence of sin is approaching. The U.S. is at the point of no turning back. The only protection is god ,and he demands repentants. Also the children you've mentioned are the children of ADULT Israel,who are drunks and glutton. You should read the entire paragraph because you've been deceived to read a small verse.
Your mental faculties are beyond redemption. It's sad to see a person decline to the state in which you are. What a pity, to lose the great potential of a human brain to nonsense and mental illness.
@Craigmw45 Did Jesus round-up all the drunken disobedient sons to have them stone? Instead he said "whoever is without sin cast the first stone"? He also told the sinner to "sin no more",meaning the laws still stands. Throughout the bible god pleads with man to change,to stop sinning,because the consequent are quickly approaching.
@Chiefsforpres Atheist is lawlessness. The bible is law and its very real like the laws in your lands. Sin is defined as breaking the law ,and its consequence are very real. God law is a "spiritual" law that starts at the thoughts before action. If everybody followed these laws the world will change very rapidly. But atheist is taught in every school that's why Native American children care less to listen to there elders,and each generation has gotten worst.
@pillowhole "Sin is defined as breaking the law ,and its consequence are very real."
Well no not really. Christians have a got out of jail free card they can use when ever they want to, by simply asking god for forgiveness he'll grant it, and the whole thing is consequence free.
"If everybody followed these laws the world will change very rapidly."
One of the laws says to kill disobedient children, another allows you to sell your daughter into prostitution.
@pillowhole right, we have to follow the bible more, like where it says that you should kill your children if they stand up to you, or where it says that magicians, male homosexuals, non-beleivers, those who don't respect shabat all shall be put to death.
thanks, but no. i don't need a book to tell me what is right or what is wrong, i can think for myself and discuss with the other people to get to an agreement.
I dont know what bible this person read it is certainly not the King James There you will find that the bible is discribed as a globe set in the firmanment Please read the Word of God and stop telling lies
Why don't we all stop arguing and take to mind that we don't agree and accept what one another believes. It's very childish to banter back and forth accusing eachother of being stupid and wrong. If you believe in science and evolution, good for you its your choice. If you believe in spiritualism, thats your choice, if you believe in Jesus than that is wonderful. We reap what we sow, no matter what your beliefs are.
Be peaceful. That is the only way, regardless of belief.
@Yahwehismyway1 The largest oxymoron one could use is praise the lord lets just get along and not fight. The bible clearly says if you believe in him you have to murder gays, disobedient teens, people that warship other gods, and people that work on the Sabbath and so on and so on. Not to mention beat slaves and sell them. So I ask you where in the FUK do you get out of that we are supposed to get along?
@chiefsforpres You are focusing on a lot of lore and misconstrued biblical history. The Old Testament has some parts that were chastisement to israel for their blantent backsliding. The bible does not tell us to kill anybody, the killing was to purify Irsael so that they could get to the promise land and be faithful. If you take a step back and look at the big picture, and what the bible actually teaches, is that we are to be peaceful one with another, to love others as yourself. God is love!
@chiefsforpres Nor does the bible say anything about hating anybody, killing homosexuals, people of other religions, and people who work on the sabbath. Any killing that happened in OT times was killing of Jews, because there was lawlessness amongst them. We are taught to love people, to do what we can for them. The hippies died out cause they had the will but not the way. And whether you see it, or like it, Christ teaches love, and so does the bible. How you interpret things is your own problem
@jhwr03 That is a fuking lie!!!!!!!!! It goddamn well does say you have to kill people! To say anything different is an out right fuking lie! It DOES say to kill people that work on the Sabbath. It DOES! No way around it!!!! It DOES say it is OK to beat slaves!!!!!! It DOES say it is OK to sell slaves. It completely DOES. It DOES say to kill homosexuals. It DOES say to kill all the men in the village dash the children to pieces and save the little girls that are virgins for themselves.
@jhwr03 It DOES say to kill disobedient children and to deny it is to deny what your GAWWWWWWWD told you that you have to do. If you really believe that moronic sht why are you denying his words. He could not have been more clear? Why are you changing what he said? You really think that would make him happy? To hear you tell others lies about what he clearly stated to be perfect. He did proclaim himself as NOT THE AUTHOR OF CONFUSION!!!!!!!! As well as PERFECT.
@jhwr03 So with no margin for error what the hell do you think gives you the right to state he wants peace on earth. He could not have been more clear on the point. That is the very last thing he would like to see.
@jhwr03 Did you forget about Geniuses? Your non loving GAWWWWWWWD is the single biggest mass murderer in the history of the world!!!!! For morons that are idiotic enough to believe something as fuking stupid as the bible! So once again GAWWWWWWWWD could not have made it more clear he is totally PRO MURDER. From his own perfect words to you own fake bible.
@Yahwehismyway1 If you want to talk about Jesus and all that stupid sht then get it right. Have a high powered full automatic war rifle in hand and spread the real word of Christ not your made up hippie sht of lets not fight. You sir have a lot of murders to catch up on. Oh wait bye not doing this you are slacking off. Laziness you know how Gawwwd feels about that. You ether need to get busy killing them or yourself.
@chiefsforpres Hahaha, What the Catholic church has done is not Christanity. They are murderers, yes, the history tell us that correctly. But you seem to be illogically linking what one group does to the entire people. Just because christians may have murdered masses of people that doesn't mean it is CHRISTIAN to do that, nor does it mean that is what Christ or the bible endourses or teaches.
(22) "It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:"
The bible does NOT say the earth is flat. The bible says it is a sphere, or a circle, before science was.
if the common view of the earth during the times of the writing of the scrolls of isaiah and other books of the bible, was that it was flat, then it seems this would have been an excellent opportunity to say, "god told me the earth is round like a ball", but apparently there was no prophet brave enough. if they meant sphere, they would have gone out of their way to say sphere, ball, or some other commonly known spherical object. perhaps testicle would have been an available word.
id say that a sphere can be a circle, but a circle can never be a sphere.
if we did not know today that the earth was spherical, the bible would not ever set us on the right track. the bible tells us about the ends of the earth, circle of the earth, the four corners of the earth, but never does it even hint at it being spherical.
SCIENCE SHOWS THAT THE UNIVERSE, because of entropy, couldn't have sustained itself from all eternity. Einstein confirmed that space, matter, and time had a beginning! That beginning had to be supernatural because natural laws have no ability to bring the universe into existence from nothing. The supernatural cannot be proved by science but science points to a supernatural intelligence for the origin and order of the universe ~ HOW FORENSIC SCIENCE REFUTES ATHEISM (Article)
NATURAL LIMITS TO EVOLUTION: Only evolution within "kinds" is genetically possible (i.e. varieties of dogs, cats, etc.), but not evolution across "kinds" (i.e. from worm to human). How were species living and reproducing if their reproductive system and other vital organs hadn't evolved yet? Read my Pravda Internet article: WAR AMONG EVOLUTIONISTS! I discuss: Punctuated Equilibrium, "Junk DNA," genetics, mutations, natural selection, fossils, genetic/biological similarities between species.
ALTHOUGH I'M A CONSERVATIVE CHRISTIAN (Baptist), I no longer believe that the Bible teaches eternal torment. The Bible teaches eternal punishment, but it's not eternal torment. In my popular Internet article, TRADITIONAL DOCTRINE OF HELL EVOLVED FROM GREEK ROOTS, I explain how and why teaching of eternal torment entered early into Christianity and how Scriptures have been misinterpreted and taken out of context to support that teaching. ~Babu G. Ranganathan (B.A. theology/biology)
First of all, good video. I am a Christian and a scientist. There is a lot that the Bible doesn't explain clearly - creation, flat/round earth, nature of the trinity, etc. Why couldn't God give Moses a better explanation of how he created man? Maybe the Hebrews did believe in a flat Earth - Eratosthenes lived hundreds of years after Isaiah. But our salvation does not depend on these things either, it only depends on faith in Christ. We can debate the details and miss the big picture all day long
@generrik If you were really a scientist you would not believe this fairytale. Your Hebrew mythology characters and stories are a plagiarism of ancient civilizations. Let's concentrate on the real evidence which was left by the great civilizations of Sumeria, Egypt, Mayan, Inca, Greek, Hindu, etc. Your Christ is a copy of many other mythical savior gods....Mithras, Horus, Krishna, Osirus, etc.. Your bible is not credible evidence. Pyramids, astronomy, mathematics, etc.. is tangible evidence.
@generrik id say the big picture is living a decent, honest life. treating others the way we would like to be treated, as Jesus taught. i can't imagine that god would exclude an individual who lived that way but never knew the story of Jesus. there are so many types of christian, that even when a person decides they want to serve god as one, they then have to wade through the mire of nonsensical teachings common with most faiths. god made it clear to adam and eve personally what they were to do.
@generrik so with that in mind, why is it that we imperfect humans have nothing more than a relatively small black book that is rife with murder, incest, and other things that are not supposed to be mentioned according to this very same book. and on a side note, what about the sword that turned continually at the entrance to the garden? there were no such weapons at that time. so if it was not a sword, why did (moses) say it was a sword?
3) If you look at ancient Jewish maps, they show a plate-like likeness of the known earth, flat as ever, sitting on four pillars suspended in space with a large dome covering it. A picture is worth a thousand words.
believers think that the word "circle" could actually mean "sphere," since both are round, but they ignore Isaiah's use of a different word in another verse where he speaks of a "ball." Here are the two verses:
To whom then will ye liken God? ....It is he that sitteth upon the circle (chuwg) of the earth (Isaiah 40:18-23
what about Job 38:14 ? since it expresses the ROTATION of the Earth, it expresses also its spherical shape. Just the idea of movement over its own axis in this moment of history, should intriegue you, and please, have a lil bit of an open minded.
@mrsomeniceguy 2) He will surely violently turn and toss thee like a BALL (duwr) into a large country: there shalt thou die, and there the chariots of thy glory shall be the shame of thy lord's house. (Isaiah 22:18)
The Hebrew word used in scripture for "circle" in the verse above is chuwg. If the Bible writer had meant for us to believe that "circle of the earth" meant that the earth was round, the writer would have used the Hebrew word for "ball," which is duwr.
@TruthSurge Job 22:14 KJV has "circuit". NLT has "vault". I'd quickly put an annotation up and fix that. the word is translated in MANY ways, just not as "sphere".
Not denying the cosmology, just your interpretation of the two verses you used to support the idea of a flat earth. They INDIRECTLY do but they are really talking about the firmament, IMO.
@TruthSurge and just to clarify, I don't think that it HAS to mean the firmament but that oddly, in BOTH verses it is speaking of the heavens and the earth is a secondary subject. Just throwing that at ya. the compass/circle (chuwg) could mean the arch of the dome over the earth and not the circumference of the earth itself. It certainly seems odd that the main subject in both verses is heaven which would be the firmament and above.
I think those first 2 refs are to the firmament (dome) over the earth. God sat on the dome, not on the earth. the 2nd half of the isaiah verse is a repeat of the 1st which clarifies the pt. God stretched out the heavens like a dome or snow globe, a covering that connected at the edges but above which god lived or "sat". That verse isn't even talking about the earth's shape but the shape of the firmament.
Same for the Proverbs verse. Notice, earth was not made and heavens is the subject.
Sagan makes an incorrect assumption regarding what Eratosthenes knew. Sagan talks about the sun being so far away and that the rays are effectively parallel (did Eratosthenes KNOW this?). The same result (regarding the shadows) could be gained by having the sun much, much closer with non-parallel rays, as per the flat earth/terra-centric model :D
pagans once believed that the earth was flat it,s fact so don,t let some misguide individual who doe not have his facts straight fool you,and the pagan also belived in the immortal soul a pagan doctrine which is firmly established in nearly all of christendom
The bible is "hand me down" stories of fictional events, or "lore" from preceding eons. Most of it was composed by ancient tribes & warriors who sat around campfires inventing sagas & stories to captivate listeners, since there was no other "civil" entertainment available then. When the changed & re-edited tales reached humanity thousands of years later, the stuff was written down on scrolls, hence the advent of texts which were translated to modern lauguages.
The Hebrew interpretation of the world is very similar to their Sumerian and Mesopotamian ancestors. They too had that snow-globed interpretation and had the idea that, since the sky is blue, water was EVERYWHERE... where I can infer that it might be one of the reasons Enki, the rain/water god was exalted so much. Also, for the record, I WONDER what ELSE INFLUENCED the Hebrews from ancient Sumeria HMMMMM????!!!!!!! Like in their mythologies perhaps?
Its Solomon that's one thing and two Solomon describes wisdoms role in creation. why do you think Solomon is talking about knowledge and all that dont take a bible verse and try to mak it bigger than it is Amen.
i like how you try to bring a bible verse but in Isaiah it says that He meaning that God is not speaking it is Isaiah to God. you also know that it is him speaking not God because Isaiah says "He tends his flock like a Shepard"
Couldn't you argue that God in the Bible isn't saying that the Earth is a flat circle seeing that Isaiah 40:22 is part of a chapter that is simply praising God?
If the verse said something like "thus says the Lord I sit on the circle of the Earth" then you could argue that the God of the Bible revealed that the Earth is flat.
No where does it say that God told Isaiah that the Earth is flat.
@TheNephilimFree I see your a fake neph. a poe as they call them. Had me goin there. but realy your wasting time,. NephilimFree makes a big enough ass of himself, your just making yourself look sad. find a better hobby.
@TheNephilimFree Neph, I think you've got your fingers in your ears still. would you like some q-tips? Oh and uhh, pretty sure your bible says unicorns are real. Job 39:9-12.
@TheNephilimFree Thats the point dude. a circle is flat. a 2dimensional object. the earth, and every other planet however is not flat, they are spherical (i.e. not perfect spheres, but good enough to be called spherical)
I mean, weve been in space, we have satilities, orbital geomatry would not work if the earth was flat.
@TheNephilimFree my unicorn says that it gave birth to everything in existance thru its horn 8 hours ago. you can't deny it, the unicorn speaks the holy words of truth
While Eratosthenes offered that nice proof, the Greek knew the earth was a sphere in the sixth Century BC. Don;t be too sure the Hebrew Bible is older than that.
Are you going to cover Lactantius. As far as I know, he's the first Christian with a classical education who rejected Greek science and insisted the earth was flat because the Bible says so.
@RefinersFire298 I'm skeptical regarding your skepticism of my skepticism insofar as I may not be as skeptical of my own skepticism as you skeptically believe I should be.
bravo.proving the bible is NOT inerrant will not assuade every christian, but for those who truly cherish truth and proof, it is a very powerful tool.keep up the great work, brett.
@practicalmagic9 Thank you! That's exactly my stance as well. All I can do is produce videos that provide viewers with how I look at the topic and why I am not convinced by apologetic assertions and the inerrancy of the Bible. It will resonate with some, and not with others. I'm so pleased you like my efforts! Thanks for taking the time to write a comment!
@brettppalmer To wrap it up Brett, apologists should basically call themselves excuse makers, I mean, you can say that "I have a cat" to them and if they find that phrase undesirable, they could re-interpret it and say "No, 'I have a cat' is meant to be interpreted spiritually, the cat 'symbolizes' sneakiness and 'having' actually means having frustration, thus, the phrase 'actually' means 'I am frustrated with your sneakiness.'" *facepalm*
@CaffeinatedThinking I made a video response to bretts two videos on the subject and placed it as a response to this video. I explain the problems with Brett's arguements in that video.
I'm waiting to see if he approve's the video as a response to this one.
It's interesting that someone who has only seen the Earth from a two dimensional perspective (Sarfati, probably on television) should automatically assume that someone looking at the three dimensional object itself (Neil Armstrong, in orbital space) would have the exact same visual perspective.
My question is: Is Sarfati so self-centered that he literally can't understand how or why Armstrong's perspective is different from his... or does he know what he said?
Why won't you, as I asked, describe what the foundations of the earth were thought to look like?
If the Hebrews believed there were actual pillars or foundations that kept the earth in place, than surely there is a description of these pillars and foundations. So please give this information.
You claim the scriptures time and again describe the earth as a flat disk and provide a picture of the earth with a dome. So please provide these passages.
@brettppalmer Pt 2 Does it not make sense that if someone is going to critique scripture, they would than have the common deceny to provide the passages they claim to be refering to?
Why won't you do this?
I read your comment regarding the firmament and have an understandiong of what it is. So how do you think it supports your arguement? As I assure you, it does not.
@TrustinJC Don't you think if someone is going to critique another's video they would have the common decency to have watched it first? Why won't you do this? Fuckin' troll.
@brettppalmer Are you suggesting that you answered my questions in your videos or in the description box? I've watched both videos. You have only provided the passage for reference to a circle but nothing to the flat earth, which is your entire arguement. You say there are plenty of such passages. So once again I ask, for the passages that state the earth is a flat disk with foundations or pillars. And what do the foundations look like?
@brettppalmer Pt 2 I see that your definition of troll is anyone who refutes your arguement or does not agree with you.
With 2 videos now devoted to this seriwes in which you state scripture claims the earth is a flat disk supported by foundations. And you showed a picture that included a dome. Since I asked for this info after your first video there is no reason to have not included the info in the second or at least in the description box.
The point of the series is circle vs sphere. The earth being shaped like a circle rather than a sphere means that the earth would be flat. I do not see why this is so difficult for you to understand.
@laflugantabastardo Please use ancient Hebrew and give an example of what the authors would have written if they wanted to explain the earth in a 3 dimensional fashion?
I understand his arguement. I'm simply waiting until he is done before making my response video.
So please show me the passage that actually states the earth is flat with edges that you can fall off of? Or how about describing what the foundations were thought to look like?
@laflugantabastardo Pt 2 He makes a huge assumption in stating, and showing a picture of a flat surface that the writers gathered from this that the earth was flat. This is pure conjecture with nothing to support it whatsoever. Where does he get off stating that he knows what the writers thought when they viewed the world?
How the earth appears in space depends on how far you are from the earth. What would it look like from the surface of the moon?
@laflugantabastardo Pt 3 I asked in his other video to show his source that states the Egyptians believed the earth was flat. I'd also like to see evidence that this means the Hebrews believed what the Egyptians believed.
If the Hebrews believed the earth was flat, why is there nothing in the bible or the apocrypha that speaks of people fearing that they might fall off the edge?
@laflugantabastardo That is supposition. The point is that people play fill in the blanks all the time with the bible because not everything is spelled out (never mind the contradictions and errors). Given this, it makes no sense to argue that Hebrews didn't believe in a flat earth because it omitted certain details.
What...? I'm not arguing with their view on cosmology here; it's plenty clear from every single source we have of them that they thought they lived on a plane rather than a sphere.
I was only answering your Cain question, which is found in Genesis 5:3, nothing more.
@TrustinJC Your own ignorance is not evidence for your views. One Egyptian text that describes a flat earth floating on water under the doe of the sky is the Heliopolitan theology. Th Hebrew evidence has already been shown to you.
Can you name a single modern scholar who posits the presence of a spherical earth in the Hebrew Bible?
Where in his 2 videos did he show a passage that states the world is flat with edges that we can fall off of? Which passage has the words flat, edge, or fall off to describe the earth?
So please provide the historical, archaeology and anthropopogy proof that the Hebrews believed this?
Funny how 40 plus writers in the bible and many more from the apocrypha never mention the earth as flat or one that we might fall off of.
@laflugantabastardo So far he has stated that the Hebrews must have believed what the Egyptians did because, according brett, scripture does not state otherwise. He also spent half of the second video explaining what an early Greek scientist lobserved, which has nothing to do with the topic of what the Hebrews believed. The Hebrews had many words to describe a flat earth with edges, but did not use them.
They did. They used the word chug, circle. You're trying to push your own reading into what the scriptures quite clearly say. The source says circle, the culture says circle, the translations say circle... the only thing you have on your side is your own assertions.
@laflugantabastardo How does circle equal flat earth? Does describing the moon or sun as a circles as it appears in the sky mean that we believe it is flat? Why did they not use "edge" of the earth it they meant it was flat with edges? They had many words to describe a flat earth, including the words "flat earth", but didn't use them. Why?
Over 40 writers included in the bible and many more in non-canonical writings, but none state the earth is flat or has edges. Why?
You are repeating questions either I or brettpalmer have already answered. Ignoring the answers does not invalidate them. Now please prove your assertion that we have to read "sphere" instead of "circle" despite what the original texts say and despite what we know about their beliefs at the time.
@laflugantabastardo I'm repeating the question because you have done nothing to show that the use of the word chuwg meant Isaiah believed the world was flat. It doesn't. And just because you keep repeating the use of the word chuwg means the writer believed the world was flat does not make it so.
Have you actually read Isaiah chapter 40? In the same verse that chuwg is used, we are also told people are as grasshoppers.
Right, that's why he used the word "circle" instead of "sphere". Because he believed it to be a sphere you can sit above, even though there's no such thing as above on a sphere.
Look, I'm not going to read a meaning into the text other than what it plainly says AND which agrees with what we know about the era: the earth having a circle-shape.
@TrustinJC Why? Simple, they didn't call the earth "flat" because it isn't. Flat is how you describe an area of land with no mountains, hills, or valleys. Nobody said 'flat earth' because it is clearly a bumpy earth. Nobody said the earth had 'edges' because nobody had ever seen any. People don't talk about the 'edge' of land if they've never seen it, because then they wouldn't know if it even ended at all. Now, how does even an omnipotent God block the four corners of a sphere to stop the wind?
@TrustinJC Lets put an end to this nonsense right now. A search of the KJV reveals 31 hits for the phrase "Ends of the earth." Palmer cites many passages in this video in which the earth is described as a disk. So you're just lying.
Now apologize to Brett and then to God, and go on your way.
@TrustinJC Trust, you're turning into a troll and your act is getting rather tiresome. Is it not clear to you that I have not completed this series yet and that, as always, I provide scriptural references when appropriate? In this video alone you can go to 1:01-1:07, 1:11, and 1:20-1:26 to find scriptural references. In my previous video I provide passages and the upcoming segment I will again. I can't help it if you're too dense to find them.
@HConstantine Where in Bretts videos does he give these passages?
But I'll play along and ask you the same question I asked Brett. What do the foundations/pillars look like? What are they made of? And what of the pillars/foundations that we are told hold up heaven? What do they look like?
@HConstantine Pt 2 Telling me to google it doesn't explain what the writers of scripture believed the pillars to be or what they looked like. So please, explain what the pillars/foundations holding up both heaven and the earth looked like.
@6stringsbrainfingers Wow.....what can I say after a comment like that? How about, "I'm not worthy!" Thanks, anyway, 6strings. You are totally awesome!
one thing i like about Sagan he proves the need for science as scientist look at things we look at as no big deal it is just there..i guess that one reason we can find out how fast a sparrow can fly..most could not care less but some scientist somewhere decided it was a big deal..i know silly example
I would say to the creationist who false flagged this video, my guess is that you don't have an intelligent counter argument and have to resort to the cowardly act of false flagging. Carl Sagan once said, "The cure for (what you may think is a) fallacious argument is a better argument, not the suppression of ideas."
I would say to the creationist who false flagged this video, my guess is that you don't have an intelligent counter argument and have to resort to the cowardly act of false flagging. Carl Sagan once said, "The cure for (what you may think is a) fallacious argument is a better argument, not the suppression of ideas."
I'm sorry but is there a hebrew word for ball? because when the word round is used that might mean globe. I honestly know a billion reasons not to believe in god but this one. I just don't consider a thing. I mean consider the argument from design. A big invisible wizard who hates pigs figs and shellfish made a world covered with pigs figs and shellfish.
The question isn't was there a word for sphere, it's did they know what sphere's were? Of course they understood the difference between circular and spherical. Since circle and sphere constitute 2 different things, in an effort to be more correct they could have used "circle," and then fully described it by comparing it to a real world spherical object to which they were accustomed like a fruit. By not doing so it seems they thought it was a 2-D circle and not a 3-D sphere.
@GeauxTiger But if they simply said the world is round and moved on because they considered it common knowledge, as egyptians already proved it why would they bother going further? Europe went through a dark age and after that people kept "discovering" commonly known things. Newton discovered that things fall with no support. Already well known fact. Shroedinger discovered that things are possible until something happens and if you don't look you don't know which happened. It's not a thing.
"But if they simply said the world is round and moved on because they considered it common knowledge...why would they bother going further?"
Why not simply be as accurate as one can in the description? To anyone with a basic understanding of 2D and 3D space there is a HUGE difference between circular and spherical. Not to mention, at no point do the writers of the bible seems concerned with efficient use of words. They could have spared a few to be accurate in this case I think.
@GeauxTiger There are tons of great arguments but honestly saying the bible isn't long winded enough? This argument simply fails it's entirely semantic. Go with the age of the earth being misrepresented. Go with the impossibility of zombies go with the skipping of millions of years of life or the earth being older than the sun and stars. But a semantic argument between round and spherical. It's just not a useful argument especially when you're arguing hebrew words in english.
Since the Bible got an infinite number of things wrong, I suggest you make only one video in this series that goes for around 5 seconds. In it, say "The Bible was written".
@aliendragon17 Not to be too much of an ass here but... the bible only makes a finite number of claims and therefore can only be wrong about a finite number of claims.
So I suggest that the video is about 10 seconds long and says something like: "No claim the bible makes can be factually substantiated and therefore ought to be placed on the shelf next to the other myths of the world"
@archeng123 That can easily be explained by evolution. Specifically, ours. Once we developed language skills, and logic, our simple instincts were replaced by thought. When confronted with danger, rather than the instinct, or urge to run, we would hear a voice to do so. "Run!" Today, we would know that it's our own thought. Back then, since we did not intentionally think it, (subconscious) some invisible being must have been the cause. Add a guy with a bone through his nose, and you have faith.
@archeng123 Gee, an abusive, short-tempered father figure with a lot of power......I dunno, where could that possibly come from?!! If you're talking about the Hebrew god, there were plenty of god-concepts before they came up with that one. Sacre bleu! Vachement chouette!
NO matter how many times u tell apologist abt this they seem to deny anything wrong abt this. They dumped their brain the moment the have faith in the book.
@zeldaofarel I agree
Bxdarealest 4 weeks ago
This argument is like believing that cats and dogs are actually falling from the sky. you are quite an aroggant atheist , as are any that are, but to no offense to atheists it is a fact. The bible is full of symbolism and you would know that if you read the bible instead of googling anything to disprove god as all atheists do when making such videos. not impressed
ClayMeansImmortal 4 weeks ago
@ClayMeansImmortal So, the biblical descriptions of the earth that I cover in this series are really only "symbolic." Do tell. Or, are you in the habit if just calling people names and making unsupported assertions?
brettppalmer 4 weeks ago 8
@ClayMeansImmortal cant respond?of course you cant ...i know you have been on youtube from looking at your page..
redshift912 3 weeks ago
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@ClayMeansImmortal let ask you this, do you stand by everything in the bible or somethins?
danieldvs100 3 days ago
@ClayMeansImmortal I have read the bible almost 3 times compleatly it has made me a better athiest, and arrogant discribes christians better than it ever did a athiest.
berrywoke 1 day ago
They always knew it was round, that's how the parthenon was built, so in mythology, they at least knew it then. It's just a western dragon story so you have no use of a huge map without a motor in your boat.
ftlqed 1 month ago
I find it funny that the Egyptians knew that the Earth was round.
zeldaofarel 1 month ago in playlist More videos from brettppalmer 5
You lean too much on your own understanding. Be patience and learn as you go along, don't jump to conclusions.
iriejason1 1 month ago
@selberverdeckt While I agree with you, I must point out that you seem to have left your caps lock on.
Ebvardh 1 month ago
How do you know that the ancient Hebrews didn't have access to photography?
iriejason1 1 month ago
@iriejason1 Not sure if serious....but if so, where's the evidence that they did?
brettppalmer 1 month ago 9
@d007ization Do you think many people are well prepared as I'am? No. What about the people in large cities? It's a sure thing that rioting,looting and shootings will erupt, then you'll recall the bible early warnings, and how it has tried to change the heart of man.
pillowhole 2 months ago
Again I've said, the u.s. is about to collapse. Do you think everybody will be in there best behavior when the u.s. economy collapse? The law needs to be taught,and god laws starts at the very thoughts of man.
pillowhole 2 months ago
@pillowhole Do you think God or (religious) zealotry ever stopped anyone? What we need to do is plan ahead and not cower and hope for a salvation that will never come.
d007ization 2 months ago
@d3st88 See what I mean. You just proved to the mass audience that my comments are true. It's called spiritual tunnel vision.
pillowhole 2 months ago
@pepilindo The consequence of sin is approaching. The U.S. is at the point of no turning back. The only protection is god ,and he demands repentants. Also the children you've mentioned are the children of ADULT Israel,who are drunks and glutton. You should read the entire paragraph because you've been deceived to read a small verse.
pillowhole 2 months ago
@pillowhole
Your mental faculties are beyond redemption. It's sad to see a person decline to the state in which you are. What a pity, to lose the great potential of a human brain to nonsense and mental illness.
d3st88 2 months ago
@Craigmw45 Did Jesus round-up all the drunken disobedient sons to have them stone? Instead he said "whoever is without sin cast the first stone"? He also told the sinner to "sin no more",meaning the laws still stands. Throughout the bible god pleads with man to change,to stop sinning,because the consequent are quickly approaching.
pillowhole 2 months ago
@Chiefsforpres Atheist is lawlessness. The bible is law and its very real like the laws in your lands. Sin is defined as breaking the law ,and its consequence are very real. God law is a "spiritual" law that starts at the thoughts before action. If everybody followed these laws the world will change very rapidly. But atheist is taught in every school that's why Native American children care less to listen to there elders,and each generation has gotten worst.
pillowhole 2 months ago
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@pillowhole "Sin is defined as breaking the law ,and its consequence are very real."
Well no not really. Christians have a got out of jail free card they can use when ever they want to, by simply asking god for forgiveness he'll grant it, and the whole thing is consequence free.
"If everybody followed these laws the world will change very rapidly."
One of the laws says to kill disobedient children, another allows you to sell your daughter into prostitution.
Do you follow those laws?
Craigmw45 2 months ago
@pillowhole right, we have to follow the bible more, like where it says that you should kill your children if they stand up to you, or where it says that magicians, male homosexuals, non-beleivers, those who don't respect shabat all shall be put to death.
thanks, but no. i don't need a book to tell me what is right or what is wrong, i can think for myself and discuss with the other people to get to an agreement.
pepilindo 2 months ago
I dont know what bible this person read it is certainly not the King James There you will find that the bible is discribed as a globe set in the firmanment Please read the Word of God and stop telling lies
powerspade 2 months ago
no, flat earth does exist! do your work research hollow earth. you will know truth.
88galaga 5 months ago
@88galaga Mate, have you never seen an underground excavation?
The foundations of places like Dubai?
Where do you think the gas in your gasoline tank comes from?
The sea?
Gravity itself?
Seriously...
Ebvardh 1 month ago
Why don't we all stop arguing and take to mind that we don't agree and accept what one another believes. It's very childish to banter back and forth accusing eachother of being stupid and wrong. If you believe in science and evolution, good for you its your choice. If you believe in spiritualism, thats your choice, if you believe in Jesus than that is wonderful. We reap what we sow, no matter what your beliefs are.
Be peaceful. That is the only way, regardless of belief.
God bless
Yahwehismyway1 5 months ago
@Yahwehismyway1 The largest oxymoron one could use is praise the lord lets just get along and not fight. The bible clearly says if you believe in him you have to murder gays, disobedient teens, people that warship other gods, and people that work on the Sabbath and so on and so on. Not to mention beat slaves and sell them. So I ask you where in the FUK do you get out of that we are supposed to get along?
chiefsforpres 3 months ago
@chiefsforpres You are focusing on a lot of lore and misconstrued biblical history. The Old Testament has some parts that were chastisement to israel for their blantent backsliding. The bible does not tell us to kill anybody, the killing was to purify Irsael so that they could get to the promise land and be faithful. If you take a step back and look at the big picture, and what the bible actually teaches, is that we are to be peaceful one with another, to love others as yourself. God is love!
jhwr03 3 months ago
@chiefsforpres Nor does the bible say anything about hating anybody, killing homosexuals, people of other religions, and people who work on the sabbath. Any killing that happened in OT times was killing of Jews, because there was lawlessness amongst them. We are taught to love people, to do what we can for them. The hippies died out cause they had the will but not the way. And whether you see it, or like it, Christ teaches love, and so does the bible. How you interpret things is your own problem
jhwr03 3 months ago
@jhwr03 That is a fuking lie!!!!!!!!! It goddamn well does say you have to kill people! To say anything different is an out right fuking lie! It DOES say to kill people that work on the Sabbath. It DOES! No way around it!!!! It DOES say it is OK to beat slaves!!!!!! It DOES say it is OK to sell slaves. It completely DOES. It DOES say to kill homosexuals. It DOES say to kill all the men in the village dash the children to pieces and save the little girls that are virgins for themselves.
chiefsforpres 3 months ago
@jhwr03 It DOES say to kill disobedient children and to deny it is to deny what your GAWWWWWWWD told you that you have to do. If you really believe that moronic sht why are you denying his words. He could not have been more clear? Why are you changing what he said? You really think that would make him happy? To hear you tell others lies about what he clearly stated to be perfect. He did proclaim himself as NOT THE AUTHOR OF CONFUSION!!!!!!!! As well as PERFECT.
chiefsforpres 3 months ago
@jhwr03 So with no margin for error what the hell do you think gives you the right to state he wants peace on earth. He could not have been more clear on the point. That is the very last thing he would like to see.
chiefsforpres 3 months ago
@jhwr03 Did you forget about Geniuses? Your non loving GAWWWWWWWD is the single biggest mass murderer in the history of the world!!!!! For morons that are idiotic enough to believe something as fuking stupid as the bible! So once again GAWWWWWWWWD could not have made it more clear he is totally PRO MURDER. From his own perfect words to you own fake bible.
chiefsforpres 3 months ago
@Yahwehismyway1 If you want to talk about Jesus and all that stupid sht then get it right. Have a high powered full automatic war rifle in hand and spread the real word of Christ not your made up hippie sht of lets not fight. You sir have a lot of murders to catch up on. Oh wait bye not doing this you are slacking off. Laziness you know how Gawwwd feels about that. You ether need to get busy killing them or yourself.
chiefsforpres 3 months ago
@chiefsforpres Hahaha, What the Catholic church has done is not Christanity. They are murderers, yes, the history tell us that correctly. But you seem to be illogically linking what one group does to the entire people. Just because christians may have murdered masses of people that doesn't mean it is CHRISTIAN to do that, nor does it mean that is what Christ or the bible endourses or teaches.
jhwr03 3 months ago
Explain this:
Isaiah 40:22
(22) "It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:"
The bible does NOT say the earth is flat. The bible says it is a sphere, or a circle, before science was.
God bless!
Yahwehismyway1 5 months ago
if the common view of the earth during the times of the writing of the scrolls of isaiah and other books of the bible, was that it was flat, then it seems this would have been an excellent opportunity to say, "god told me the earth is round like a ball", but apparently there was no prophet brave enough. if they meant sphere, they would have gone out of their way to say sphere, ball, or some other commonly known spherical object. perhaps testicle would have been an available word.
thetruthrover 5 months ago
id say that a sphere can be a circle, but a circle can never be a sphere.
if we did not know today that the earth was spherical, the bible would not ever set us on the right track. the bible tells us about the ends of the earth, circle of the earth, the four corners of the earth, but never does it even hint at it being spherical.
thetruthrover 5 months ago
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SCIENCE SHOWS THAT THE UNIVERSE, because of entropy, couldn't have sustained itself from all eternity. Einstein confirmed that space, matter, and time had a beginning! That beginning had to be supernatural because natural laws have no ability to bring the universe into existence from nothing. The supernatural cannot be proved by science but science points to a supernatural intelligence for the origin and order of the universe ~ HOW FORENSIC SCIENCE REFUTES ATHEISM (Article)
Mogley52 6 months ago
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NATURAL LIMITS TO EVOLUTION: Only evolution within "kinds" is genetically possible (i.e. varieties of dogs, cats, etc.), but not evolution across "kinds" (i.e. from worm to human). How were species living and reproducing if their reproductive system and other vital organs hadn't evolved yet? Read my Pravda Internet article: WAR AMONG EVOLUTIONISTS! I discuss: Punctuated Equilibrium, "Junk DNA," genetics, mutations, natural selection, fossils, genetic/biological similarities between species.
Mogley52 6 months ago
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ALTHOUGH I'M A CONSERVATIVE CHRISTIAN (Baptist), I no longer believe that the Bible teaches eternal torment. The Bible teaches eternal punishment, but it's not eternal torment. In my popular Internet article, TRADITIONAL DOCTRINE OF HELL EVOLVED FROM GREEK ROOTS, I explain how and why teaching of eternal torment entered early into Christianity and how Scriptures have been misinterpreted and taken out of context to support that teaching. ~Babu G. Ranganathan (B.A. theology/biology)
Mogley52 6 months ago
First of all, good video. I am a Christian and a scientist. There is a lot that the Bible doesn't explain clearly - creation, flat/round earth, nature of the trinity, etc. Why couldn't God give Moses a better explanation of how he created man? Maybe the Hebrews did believe in a flat Earth - Eratosthenes lived hundreds of years after Isaiah. But our salvation does not depend on these things either, it only depends on faith in Christ. We can debate the details and miss the big picture all day long
generrik 6 months ago
@generrik If you were really a scientist you would not believe this fairytale. Your Hebrew mythology characters and stories are a plagiarism of ancient civilizations. Let's concentrate on the real evidence which was left by the great civilizations of Sumeria, Egypt, Mayan, Inca, Greek, Hindu, etc. Your Christ is a copy of many other mythical savior gods....Mithras, Horus, Krishna, Osirus, etc.. Your bible is not credible evidence. Pyramids, astronomy, mathematics, etc.. is tangible evidence.
cycorealm35 6 months ago
@generrik Really? What sort of scientist? What sort of credentials do you have?
Just curious.
Zemed87 5 months ago
@generrik id say the big picture is living a decent, honest life. treating others the way we would like to be treated, as Jesus taught. i can't imagine that god would exclude an individual who lived that way but never knew the story of Jesus. there are so many types of christian, that even when a person decides they want to serve god as one, they then have to wade through the mire of nonsensical teachings common with most faiths. god made it clear to adam and eve personally what they were to do.
thetruthrover 5 months ago
@generrik so with that in mind, why is it that we imperfect humans have nothing more than a relatively small black book that is rife with murder, incest, and other things that are not supposed to be mentioned according to this very same book. and on a side note, what about the sword that turned continually at the entrance to the garden? there were no such weapons at that time. so if it was not a sword, why did (moses) say it was a sword?
thetruthrover 5 months ago
3) If you look at ancient Jewish maps, they show a plate-like likeness of the known earth, flat as ever, sitting on four pillars suspended in space with a large dome covering it. A picture is worth a thousand words.
Matthew1944 7 months ago
believers think that the word "circle" could actually mean "sphere," since both are round, but they ignore Isaiah's use of a different word in another verse where he speaks of a "ball." Here are the two verses:
To whom then will ye liken God? ....It is he that sitteth upon the circle (chuwg) of the earth (Isaiah 40:18-23
Matthew1944 7 months ago
Cool !!!
Technologeek92 7 months ago
what about Job 38:14 ? since it expresses the ROTATION of the Earth, it expresses also its spherical shape. Just the idea of movement over its own axis in this moment of history, should intriegue you, and please, have a lil bit of an open minded.
mrsomeniceguy 7 months ago
@mrsomeniceguy 2) He will surely violently turn and toss thee like a BALL (duwr) into a large country: there shalt thou die, and there the chariots of thy glory shall be the shame of thy lord's house. (Isaiah 22:18)
The Hebrew word used in scripture for "circle" in the verse above is chuwg. If the Bible writer had meant for us to believe that "circle of the earth" meant that the earth was round, the writer would have used the Hebrew word for "ball," which is duwr.
Matthew1944 7 months ago
@IntolerantAtheist1 your name is ironic
pochopaz7381 7 months ago
I noticed that in my Good News Bible, they took out the word "circle". Thats sneaky and isnt that wrong to mistranslate?
angellicvoices 7 months ago
Big blue marble, good point.
connerjd 7 months ago
3:34 ? It's not always translated as "circle". Many times, it is translated as "compass" just like the vid of your 2 pencils.
TruthSurge 7 months ago
@TruthSurge Job 22:14 KJV has "circuit". NLT has "vault". I'd quickly put an annotation up and fix that. the word is translated in MANY ways, just not as "sphere".
TruthSurge 7 months ago
Not denying the cosmology, just your interpretation of the two verses you used to support the idea of a flat earth. They INDIRECTLY do but they are really talking about the firmament, IMO.
TruthSurge 7 months ago
@TruthSurge and just to clarify, I don't think that it HAS to mean the firmament but that oddly, in BOTH verses it is speaking of the heavens and the earth is a secondary subject. Just throwing that at ya. the compass/circle (chuwg) could mean the arch of the dome over the earth and not the circumference of the earth itself. It certainly seems odd that the main subject in both verses is heaven which would be the firmament and above.
TruthSurge 7 months ago
I think those first 2 refs are to the firmament (dome) over the earth. God sat on the dome, not on the earth. the 2nd half of the isaiah verse is a repeat of the 1st which clarifies the pt. God stretched out the heavens like a dome or snow globe, a covering that connected at the edges but above which god lived or "sat". That verse isn't even talking about the earth's shape but the shape of the firmament.
Same for the Proverbs verse. Notice, earth was not made and heavens is the subject.
TruthSurge 7 months ago
Love the thumbnail for this video! Carl Sagan is a straight G!
Pgaither84 7 months ago
Sagan makes an incorrect assumption regarding what Eratosthenes knew. Sagan talks about the sun being so far away and that the rays are effectively parallel (did Eratosthenes KNOW this?). The same result (regarding the shadows) could be gained by having the sun much, much closer with non-parallel rays, as per the flat earth/terra-centric model :D
COEXISTential 8 months ago
pagans once believed that the earth was flat it,s fact so don,t let some misguide individual who doe not have his facts straight fool you,and the pagan also belived in the immortal soul a pagan doctrine which is firmly established in nearly all of christendom
timsh6 8 months ago
The bible is "hand me down" stories of fictional events, or "lore" from preceding eons. Most of it was composed by ancient tribes & warriors who sat around campfires inventing sagas & stories to captivate listeners, since there was no other "civil" entertainment available then. When the changed & re-edited tales reached humanity thousands of years later, the stuff was written down on scrolls, hence the advent of texts which were translated to modern lauguages.
ftjax 8 months ago
The Hebrew interpretation of the world is very similar to their Sumerian and Mesopotamian ancestors. They too had that snow-globed interpretation and had the idea that, since the sky is blue, water was EVERYWHERE... where I can infer that it might be one of the reasons Enki, the rain/water god was exalted so much. Also, for the record, I WONDER what ELSE INFLUENCED the Hebrews from ancient Sumeria HMMMMM????!!!!!!! Like in their mythologies perhaps?
Nverdis 8 months ago
LOL skepticism
Nverdis 8 months ago
Beautiful and well done...
suzukidas2 8 months ago
Its Solomon that's one thing and two Solomon describes wisdoms role in creation. why do you think Solomon is talking about knowledge and all that dont take a bible verse and try to mak it bigger than it is Amen.
p.s. good studying
kasagaygay12 8 months ago
i like how you try to bring a bible verse but in Isaiah it says that He meaning that God is not speaking it is Isaiah to God. you also know that it is him speaking not God because Isaiah says "He tends his flock like a Shepard"
kasagaygay12 8 months ago
Couldn't you argue that God in the Bible isn't saying that the Earth is a flat circle seeing that Isaiah 40:22 is part of a chapter that is simply praising God?
If the verse said something like "thus says the Lord I sit on the circle of the Earth" then you could argue that the God of the Bible revealed that the Earth is flat.
No where does it say that God told Isaiah that the Earth is flat.
BigBobsh2o 8 months ago
Sagan rocks!
veggiescrub 8 months ago
@veggiescrub oh, so does Brett
veggiescrub 8 months ago
@TheNephilimFree I see your a fake neph. a poe as they call them. Had me goin there. but realy your wasting time,. NephilimFree makes a big enough ass of himself, your just making yourself look sad. find a better hobby.
Ihatemelee 8 months ago
@TheNephilimFree Neph, I think you've got your fingers in your ears still. would you like some q-tips? Oh and uhh, pretty sure your bible says unicorns are real. Job 39:9-12.
Ihatemelee 8 months ago
@TheNephilimFree Thats the point dude. a circle is flat. a 2dimensional object. the earth, and every other planet however is not flat, they are spherical (i.e. not perfect spheres, but good enough to be called spherical)
I mean, weve been in space, we have satilities, orbital geomatry would not work if the earth was flat.
Ihatemelee 8 months ago
I find it amuzing that while this is an atheist video the add on it I just closed was christian travel marketing for a trip to jerusalem
Ihatemelee 8 months ago
@TheNephilimFree my unicorn says that it gave birth to everything in existance thru its horn 8 hours ago. you can't deny it, the unicorn speaks the holy words of truth
cruelbusiness1984 8 months ago
Whats the music it is really nice <3
godhell4 8 months ago
While Eratosthenes offered that nice proof, the Greek knew the earth was a sphere in the sixth Century BC. Don;t be too sure the Hebrew Bible is older than that.
Are you going to cover Lactantius. As far as I know, he's the first Christian with a classical education who rejected Greek science and insisted the earth was flat because the Bible says so.
Too bad about the Aristophanes gaff at 10:31.
HConstantine 8 months ago
No word for ball? What does the bible call those things in a man's scrotum?
mjn132 8 months ago
If he is a true skeptic, he would be skeptic of his skepticism.
RefinersFire298 8 months ago
@RefinersFire298 I'm skeptical regarding your skepticism of my skepticism insofar as I may not be as skeptical of my own skepticism as you skeptically believe I should be.
brettppalmer 8 months ago 36
@brettppalmer hmmm...that sounds a little skeptical if you ask me.
RefinersFire298 8 months ago 13
@RefinersFire298 I believe so...! :P
brettppalmer 8 months ago 7
@brettppalmer so you are not a skeptic but a believer!?! BLASPHEMY!
juuonse 8 months ago
@brettppalmer Somewhere in Heaven, Jesus just jizzed to that.
Malkmusianful 7 months ago
@RefinersFire298 true but mostly of god
beastbubblegum 8 months ago
I less than three your videos.
Pgaither84 8 months ago
bravo.proving the bible is NOT inerrant will not assuade every christian, but for those who truly cherish truth and proof, it is a very powerful tool.keep up the great work, brett.
practicalmagic9 8 months ago 7
@practicalmagic9 Thank you! That's exactly my stance as well. All I can do is produce videos that provide viewers with how I look at the topic and why I am not convinced by apologetic assertions and the inerrancy of the Bible. It will resonate with some, and not with others. I'm so pleased you like my efforts! Thanks for taking the time to write a comment!
brettppalmer 8 months ago 6
@brettppalmer To wrap it up Brett, apologists should basically call themselves excuse makers, I mean, you can say that "I have a cat" to them and if they find that phrase undesirable, they could re-interpret it and say "No, 'I have a cat' is meant to be interpreted spiritually, the cat 'symbolizes' sneakiness and 'having' actually means having frustration, thus, the phrase 'actually' means 'I am frustrated with your sneakiness.'" *facepalm*
Nverdis 8 months ago
@brettppalmer what is the song/melody called at 10:44? I'm a hardcore creationist by the way.
QuantumPhysick 8 months ago
@CaffeinatedThinking I made a video response to bretts two videos on the subject and placed it as a response to this video. I explain the problems with Brett's arguements in that video.
I'm waiting to see if he approve's the video as a response to this one.
TrustinJC 8 months ago
@TrustinJC Well, I wiped the floor with you when you tried to respond to my WGGW series so I guess I'll have to tan your hide again.
brettppalmer 8 months ago 2
@CoolAndFrezh Yes, it definately is. :)
6stringsbrainfingers 8 months ago
FUCK ALL RELIGION!
ervin920 8 months ago
It's interesting that someone who has only seen the Earth from a two dimensional perspective (Sarfati, probably on television) should automatically assume that someone looking at the three dimensional object itself (Neil Armstrong, in orbital space) would have the exact same visual perspective.
My question is: Is Sarfati so self-centered that he literally can't understand how or why Armstrong's perspective is different from his... or does he know what he said?
Stupid or evil. Take your pick.
zEropoint68 8 months ago
Another excellent video
niriop 8 months ago
Why won't you, as I asked, describe what the foundations of the earth were thought to look like?
If the Hebrews believed there were actual pillars or foundations that kept the earth in place, than surely there is a description of these pillars and foundations. So please give this information.
You claim the scriptures time and again describe the earth as a flat disk and provide a picture of the earth with a dome. So please provide these passages.
Con't
TrustinJC 8 months ago
@brettppalmer Pt 2 Does it not make sense that if someone is going to critique scripture, they would than have the common deceny to provide the passages they claim to be refering to?
Why won't you do this?
I read your comment regarding the firmament and have an understandiong of what it is. So how do you think it supports your arguement? As I assure you, it does not.
TrustinJC 8 months ago
@TrustinJC Don't you think if someone is going to critique another's video they would have the common decency to have watched it first? Why won't you do this? Fuckin' troll.
brettppalmer 8 months ago 18
@brettppalmer Are you suggesting that you answered my questions in your videos or in the description box? I've watched both videos. You have only provided the passage for reference to a circle but nothing to the flat earth, which is your entire arguement. You say there are plenty of such passages. So once again I ask, for the passages that state the earth is a flat disk with foundations or pillars. And what do the foundations look like?
Con't
TrustinJC 8 months ago
@brettppalmer Pt 2 I see that your definition of troll is anyone who refutes your arguement or does not agree with you.
With 2 videos now devoted to this seriwes in which you state scripture claims the earth is a flat disk supported by foundations. And you showed a picture that included a dome. Since I asked for this info after your first video there is no reason to have not included the info in the second or at least in the description box.
TrustinJC 8 months ago
@TrustinJC
The point of the series is circle vs sphere. The earth being shaped like a circle rather than a sphere means that the earth would be flat. I do not see why this is so difficult for you to understand.
laflugantabastardo 8 months ago
@laflugantabastardo Please use ancient Hebrew and give an example of what the authors would have written if they wanted to explain the earth in a 3 dimensional fashion?
I understand his arguement. I'm simply waiting until he is done before making my response video.
So please show me the passage that actually states the earth is flat with edges that you can fall off of? Or how about describing what the foundations were thought to look like?
Con't
TrustinJC 8 months ago
@laflugantabastardo Pt 2 He makes a huge assumption in stating, and showing a picture of a flat surface that the writers gathered from this that the earth was flat. This is pure conjecture with nothing to support it whatsoever. Where does he get off stating that he knows what the writers thought when they viewed the world?
How the earth appears in space depends on how far you are from the earth. What would it look like from the surface of the moon?
Con't
TrustinJC 8 months ago
@laflugantabastardo Pt 3 I asked in his other video to show his source that states the Egyptians believed the earth was flat. I'd also like to see evidence that this means the Hebrews believed what the Egyptians believed.
If the Hebrews believed the earth was flat, why is there nothing in the bible or the apocrypha that speaks of people fearing that they might fall off the edge?
TrustinJC 8 months ago
@TrustinJC Who was Cain's wife? What tools did Noah use to build the ark?
Maxdwolf 8 months ago
@Maxdwolf
The bible says that Adam and Eve went on to have many sons and daughters. So I'm going to have to say his sister.
laflugantabastardo 8 months ago
@laflugantabastardo That is supposition. The point is that people play fill in the blanks all the time with the bible because not everything is spelled out (never mind the contradictions and errors). Given this, it makes no sense to argue that Hebrews didn't believe in a flat earth because it omitted certain details.
Maxdwolf 8 months ago
@Maxdwolf
What...? I'm not arguing with their view on cosmology here; it's plenty clear from every single source we have of them that they thought they lived on a plane rather than a sphere.
I was only answering your Cain question, which is found in Genesis 5:3, nothing more.
laflugantabastardo 8 months ago
@laflugantabastardo Sorry, thought it was @TrustinJC answering. Wasn't paying proper attention.
Maxdwolf 8 months ago
@Maxdwolf
Not a problem. Happens to me with great regularity.
laflugantabastardo 8 months ago
@TrustinJC Your own ignorance is not evidence for your views. One Egyptian text that describes a flat earth floating on water under the doe of the sky is the Heliopolitan theology. Th Hebrew evidence has already been shown to you.
Can you name a single modern scholar who posits the presence of a spherical earth in the Hebrew Bible?
HConstantine 8 months ago
@TrustinJC
> Please use ancient Hebrew and give an example of what the authors would have written if they wanted to explain the earth in a 3 dimensional fashion?
Next episode.
> So please show me the passage that actually states the earth is flat with edges that you can fall off of?
This episode and the last one.
> This is pure conjecture with nothing to support it whatsoever.
Except history, archaeology and anthropology agreeing on this.
laflugantabastardo 8 months ago
@laflugantabastardo Really? The next video?
Where in his 2 videos did he show a passage that states the world is flat with edges that we can fall off of? Which passage has the words flat, edge, or fall off to describe the earth?
So please provide the historical, archaeology and anthropopogy proof that the Hebrews believed this?
Funny how 40 plus writers in the bible and many more from the apocrypha never mention the earth as flat or one that we might fall off of.
TrustinJC 8 months ago
@TrustinJC
Are you enquiring about the edges and falling of thing? Because that is kind of the only logical result of the worldview they had.
> provide the ... proof that the Hebrews believed this?
I think I linked you to a wikipedia article earlier. How about you start learning there?
> Funny how [they] never mention the earth as flat or one that we might fall off of.
Apparently they did and I am sorry you are too blind or deluded to accept it for what it is.
laflugantabastardo 8 months ago
@TrustinJC
> Really? The next video?
Yes, really, the next video! Can you believe it? He's actually making multiple videos!
laflugantabastardo 8 months ago
@laflugantabastardo So far he has stated that the Hebrews must have believed what the Egyptians did because, according brett, scripture does not state otherwise. He also spent half of the second video explaining what an early Greek scientist lobserved, which has nothing to do with the topic of what the Hebrews believed. The Hebrews had many words to describe a flat earth with edges, but did not use them.
Has it occured to you why they didn't?
TrustinJC 8 months ago
@TrustinJC
They did. They used the word chug, circle. You're trying to push your own reading into what the scriptures quite clearly say. The source says circle, the culture says circle, the translations say circle... the only thing you have on your side is your own assertions.
laflugantabastardo 8 months ago
@laflugantabastardo How does circle equal flat earth? Does describing the moon or sun as a circles as it appears in the sky mean that we believe it is flat? Why did they not use "edge" of the earth it they meant it was flat with edges? They had many words to describe a flat earth, including the words "flat earth", but didn't use them. Why?
Over 40 writers included in the bible and many more in non-canonical writings, but none state the earth is flat or has edges. Why?
TrustinJC 8 months ago
@TrustinJC
You are repeating questions either I or brettpalmer have already answered. Ignoring the answers does not invalidate them. Now please prove your assertion that we have to read "sphere" instead of "circle" despite what the original texts say and despite what we know about their beliefs at the time.
laflugantabastardo 8 months ago
@laflugantabastardo I'm repeating the question because you have done nothing to show that the use of the word chuwg meant Isaiah believed the world was flat. It doesn't. And just because you keep repeating the use of the word chuwg means the writer believed the world was flat does not make it so.
Have you actually read Isaiah chapter 40? In the same verse that chuwg is used, we are also told people are as grasshoppers.
Con't
TrustinJC 8 months ago
@laflugan Pt 2 So are we to believe people are grasshoppers? In Isaiah 40: 6 it reads. All flesh is grass.
So are we to believe that our flesh is really grass?
Now answer my questions that you refuse to answer. Why do we not see the phrase "flat earth" in either the bible or non-canonical writings?
TrustinJC 8 months ago
@TrustinJC
Right, that's why he used the word "circle" instead of "sphere". Because he believed it to be a sphere you can sit above, even though there's no such thing as above on a sphere.
Look, I'm not going to read a meaning into the text other than what it plainly says AND which agrees with what we know about the era: the earth having a circle-shape.
laflugantabastardo 8 months ago
@TrustinJC Why? Simple, they didn't call the earth "flat" because it isn't. Flat is how you describe an area of land with no mountains, hills, or valleys. Nobody said 'flat earth' because it is clearly a bumpy earth. Nobody said the earth had 'edges' because nobody had ever seen any. People don't talk about the 'edge' of land if they've never seen it, because then they wouldn't know if it even ended at all. Now, how does even an omnipotent God block the four corners of a sphere to stop the wind?
TheOJDrinker 8 months ago
@TrustinJC Lets put an end to this nonsense right now. A search of the KJV reveals 31 hits for the phrase "Ends of the earth." Palmer cites many passages in this video in which the earth is described as a disk. So you're just lying.
Now apologize to Brett and then to God, and go on your way.
HConstantine 8 months ago 2
@TrustinJC Job 38:3
That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it?
HConstantine 8 months ago
@TrustinJC (2)
> Or how about describing what the foundations were thought to look like?
It anchored Sheol / Abbadon into the great deep.
> How the earth appears in space depends on how far you are from the earth.
It is irrelevant how it 'appears' to be.
> source that states the Egyptians believed the earth was flat.
en(.)wikipedia(.)org/wiki/Flat_Earth#Ancient_Near_East - Enjoy
> that speaks of people fearing that they might fall off the edge?
Why would there be?
laflugantabastardo 8 months ago
@TrustinJC have you ever seen a circle that isn't flat? What is wrong with your brain?
HConstantine 8 months ago
@TrustinJC Trust, you're turning into a troll and your act is getting rather tiresome. Is it not clear to you that I have not completed this series yet and that, as always, I provide scriptural references when appropriate? In this video alone you can go to 1:01-1:07, 1:11, and 1:20-1:26 to find scriptural references. In my previous video I provide passages and the upcoming segment I will again. I can't help it if you're too dense to find them.
brettppalmer 8 months ago 6
@TrustinJC 1Sam 2:8
for the pillars of the earth are the LORD's, and he hath set the world upon them.
Job 9:6
Which shaketh the earth out of her place, and the pillars thereof tremble.
If you don't know what a pillar is, google "Doric Column".
HConstantine 8 months ago
@HConstantine Where in Bretts videos does he give these passages?
But I'll play along and ask you the same question I asked Brett. What do the foundations/pillars look like? What are they made of? And what of the pillars/foundations that we are told hold up heaven? What do they look like?
TrustinJC 8 months ago
@HConstantine Pt 2 Telling me to google it doesn't explain what the writers of scripture believed the pillars to be or what they looked like. So please, explain what the pillars/foundations holding up both heaven and the earth looked like.
TrustinJC 8 months ago
That turtle neck is some funky shit.
myjizzureye 8 months ago
Comment removed
Ormaaj 8 months ago
Brett Palmer .... the man Carl Sagen left in charge to educate the human race. :)
6stringsbrainfingers 8 months ago 3
@6stringsbrainfingers Wow.....what can I say after a comment like that? How about, "I'm not worthy!" Thanks, anyway, 6strings. You are totally awesome!
brettppalmer 8 months ago
Simply wonderful!
I remember watching this episode of 'Cosmos' as a boy, it really opened my eyes!
farnium 8 months ago
Judging by this video's thumbnail. I would say that Sagan was a fan of the Beasty Boys
CRAGIFICATION 8 months ago
one thing i like about Sagan he proves the need for science as scientist look at things we look at as no big deal it is just there..i guess that one reason we can find out how fast a sparrow can fly..most could not care less but some scientist somewhere decided it was a big deal..i know silly example
johndebbra 8 months ago
I would say to the creationist who false flagged this video, my guess is that you don't have an intelligent counter argument and have to resort to the cowardly act of false flagging. Carl Sagan once said, "The cure for (what you may think is a) fallacious argument is a better argument, not the suppression of ideas."
cosmos11 8 months ago
I would say to the creationist who false flagged this video, my guess is that you don't have an intelligent counter argument and have to resort to the cowardly act of false flagging. Carl Sagan once said, "The cure for (what you may think is a) fallacious argument is a better argument, not the suppression of ideas."
cosmos11 8 months ago
Carl Sagan is a bad-ass, even in death he can kick religion's ass. Suck on that christ!
savageecho 8 months ago
Part 3 will be three seconds of Brett saying "Yes".
mosquitoe4 8 months ago
I'm sorry but is there a hebrew word for ball? because when the word round is used that might mean globe. I honestly know a billion reasons not to believe in god but this one. I just don't consider a thing. I mean consider the argument from design. A big invisible wizard who hates pigs figs and shellfish made a world covered with pigs figs and shellfish.
ratholin 8 months ago
@ratholin
The question isn't was there a word for sphere, it's did they know what sphere's were? Of course they understood the difference between circular and spherical. Since circle and sphere constitute 2 different things, in an effort to be more correct they could have used "circle," and then fully described it by comparing it to a real world spherical object to which they were accustomed like a fruit. By not doing so it seems they thought it was a 2-D circle and not a 3-D sphere.
GeauxTiger 8 months ago
@GeauxTiger But if they simply said the world is round and moved on because they considered it common knowledge, as egyptians already proved it why would they bother going further? Europe went through a dark age and after that people kept "discovering" commonly known things. Newton discovered that things fall with no support. Already well known fact. Shroedinger discovered that things are possible until something happens and if you don't look you don't know which happened. It's not a thing.
ratholin 8 months ago
@ratholin
"But if they simply said the world is round and moved on because they considered it common knowledge...why would they bother going further?"
Why not simply be as accurate as one can in the description? To anyone with a basic understanding of 2D and 3D space there is a HUGE difference between circular and spherical. Not to mention, at no point do the writers of the bible seems concerned with efficient use of words. They could have spared a few to be accurate in this case I think.
GeauxTiger 8 months ago
@GeauxTiger There are tons of great arguments but honestly saying the bible isn't long winded enough? This argument simply fails it's entirely semantic. Go with the age of the earth being misrepresented. Go with the impossibility of zombies go with the skipping of millions of years of life or the earth being older than the sun and stars. But a semantic argument between round and spherical. It's just not a useful argument especially when you're arguing hebrew words in english.
ratholin 8 months ago
@ratholin
> I'm sorry but is there a hebrew word for ball?
That's what he's gonna talk about next time, apparently.
> I honestly know a billion reasons not to believe in god but this one. I just don't consider a thing.
Nobody does except those who believe in it. It's a refutation of a claim to divine inspiration.
laflugantabastardo 8 months ago
Dear Brett,
Since the Bible got an infinite number of things wrong, I suggest you make only one video in this series that goes for around 5 seconds. In it, say "The Bible was written".
That should just about cover it.
aliendragon17 8 months ago
@aliendragon17 Not to be too much of an ass here but... the bible only makes a finite number of claims and therefore can only be wrong about a finite number of claims.
So I suggest that the video is about 10 seconds long and says something like: "No claim the bible makes can be factually substantiated and therefore ought to be placed on the shelf next to the other myths of the world"
savageecho 8 months ago
So if we are all grasshoppers why is Kung Fu not our national pastime?
WanderingTaoist101 8 months ago
@archeng123 That can easily be explained by evolution. Specifically, ours. Once we developed language skills, and logic, our simple instincts were replaced by thought. When confronted with danger, rather than the instinct, or urge to run, we would hear a voice to do so. "Run!" Today, we would know that it's our own thought. Back then, since we did not intentionally think it, (subconscious) some invisible being must have been the cause. Add a guy with a bone through his nose, and you have faith.
skywize 8 months ago
That was amazing! How someone from that age could figure all this out with those 'tools'... It's bewildering!
skywize 8 months ago
"i want you to walk 800 km in that direction." "why?" "because?" how the hell did he convince someone to do that?!?!
MobileThinker 8 months ago
@MobileThinker One word: Money. "Eratosthenes hired a man ... "
George4943 8 months ago
@George4943 yeah i know, but just think of the ammount he would have to pay...it is just amazing...
MobileThinker 8 months ago
@archeng123 Gee, an abusive, short-tempered father figure with a lot of power......I dunno, where could that possibly come from?!! If you're talking about the Hebrew god, there were plenty of god-concepts before they came up with that one. Sacre bleu! Vachement chouette!
tctheunbeliever 8 months ago
NO matter how many times u tell apologist abt this they seem to deny anything wrong abt this. They dumped their brain the moment the have faith in the book.
mykegoh 8 months ago
Eratosthenes. Debunking the creationist bs since 276bc.
SEThatered 8 months ago 2
I retract my previous comments from the last video. I was under the wrong impression that the word used was "Kadur", instead of "Hoog".
Indeed, Hoog means a circle, never a sphere.
Also, I'm never sick of watching Cosmos excerpts. :)
MindLessWiz 8 months ago
@MindLessWiz "Chug," not "Hoog." Mr. Palmer's pronunciation of the word was off. However, his definition of it, was highly accurate.
Ridleysama 8 months ago