Even though we said that we wouldn't discuss moding for RTS quite yet, I feel that any Risk game on Warcraft 3, does this the best. If you go on to Battle-net, you can see dozens of theses at anytime and all of them are really good. Instead of collecting your supplies threw mines or trees, you get gold from taking other countries. Other countries are made up of several cities that you must occupy. More cities, bigger income from that country. This works amazingly well.
Ok i understand that everyone has probably already realised this but 1st of all i dont remember who told it but "we need to realise that mmo rpg and mmo are not Sinonimus" does mmo mean progresion? or does it simply mean that you play with a lot of players? so no of that outbalancing with upgrades bs.. . well on the "older players always win" isue well the thing is once you get defeated. so you can out play the huge army with nothing but a good startegy so the only problem is the map and log-out
Because it bears repeating: Shattered Galaxy already did this.
Look it up, it's free to play now. It is an old game, and it's showing it's age, but it's the still the best MMORTS ever made, even considering the information that's been released about End of Nations so far.
Interesting take on MMORTSes. I don't find the idea all that appealing, but then again I never found MMORPGs very appealing.
What I'd like to see is a multiplayer RTS with larger teams, with each player controlling a part of an army. Think Battlefield 2, with "generals" managing high-level strategy, "commanders" (or something) managing resources and domestic stuff, and "captains" each commanding a platoon of troops, as directed by their superiors.
@airandfingers Starcraft 2 can be played like this; actually age of empires II was able to be played like this with shared unit control. It isnt as organized as youre talking about but it does allow one person to focus on macro and others to focus on micro battles.
I made a map for warcraft 3 that was like what you're describing where one player plays warcraft 3 with no heroes and his 3 allies play the heroes and only control the units given to them.
@wrath230000 Hey, thanks for the info! I didn't know AoE II had shared unit control, but I know that wc3's/sc2's shared unit control doesn't come close to what I'm talking about.. for starters, even with shared unit control I can't spend my allies' resources or use their buildings to train units.
The closest thing I've seen to this was the sc1 mode in which each team controls the units from a single base. But 2-4 people controlling a single base is booooring.
I would go one step further and have a world ranking system.
Start out in the newbie world and then as you get more skilled (not more advanced level but more skilled at playing (you get a higher win to loss ratio)) Give the option of moving up to a more advanced area, that way the power players and causal players would have some separation and both could enjoy the game.
I had an idea for an MMORTS, but as an ameteur game designer who has yet to release their first game, it's still a long ways away. Chances are someone will tap that mana lode before my idea comes to full fruition, and if I want to get my game produced, it will have to be a clone of that one :(
Your idea sounds similar to Endwar, sure it may work but that's not what i want from an MMO RTS. World in Conflict with just a huge map and slightly increased unit cap is what i want. What people want from an MMORTS is scale and the WiC formula will provide that without over burdening the player resulting in a deterioration of tactical play.
You mentioned it in the who but when you said how it would work you pretty much pointed it out again. Warmachine does world events and to keep track of them they use that map idea you guys mentioned. So basically play table top online and you have MMORTS......
I am so happy I found you guys! I thought you left the video business and disappeared off the face of the earth when i could not find you on the "previous" website. I will not say the site.
actually moving your "base" = "all that you own" around is a pretty f*****g pain in EVE Online... I hate it. If you own a couple of big ships and want to move over to a new place because your new corp is around there you need to fly most of them there one at a time. There are freighters in the game for carrying the other stuff but not ships - and especially not the giant capital ships.
Relic has said that Dawn of War 3 will incorporate more MMO elements into it. Given that they're already using the Warhammer (40,000) universe, it would make sense to put all these ideas into action there. The points idea is ripped straight out of the Warhammer tabletop, so it would make perfect sense to use in a W40K MMORTS. You could have various factions vying for control of a planet(s) or star system(s). Seems like the perfect setup for an MMORTS.
Shattered Galaxy it is not quite there but it comes close yet there are a few balance problems and leveling is a steep curve but it might be the right step towards the future of MMORTS
@Niilomaan You are totally right. I played Shattered Galaxy when it was still part of Nexon. Way back in 2001. It had everything that was mentioned in the video. Getting more Clout meant getting more units but they would be weaker so 12 vs 6 with a guy with 6 units all tech'd up might beat the 12. I kinda wish Nexon kept Sgalaxy so we might still had some updates instead of the reincar events.
They DO have an MMORTS! It works really really well, its called HEARTS OF IRON, they're up to their 3rd installment of the game. The only catch is that its based in the WW2 area
Has anyone heard Project Terra? It's like an MMORTS, but it's mostly based on a country leader simulation. The trick is that everything is controlled player base, economy, market stuff, wars, everything. There are even times where you'll have to work together. The wars are kind of like an RTS, but aren't much. The game is still in Alpha, so don't expect much.
Small man groups of maybe 5 to 6 units that can die and thus have value and need to be replaced when dead along with some choose players you are best at fighting and maybe even an open world where you need to find a "safe spot" for your units to sleep when you log out to which they are vulnerable when you are not logged on might be interesting to maybe when the player is not logged on his units play via computer controlled so it would be of the players best interest to get them to a safe spot.
Have you guys ever heard of or played Shattered Galaxies? Very old game but it utilized several of the systems discussed in this episode and was...mostly effective for it.
Mechwarrior was a fine example, and I am talking about the PEN AND PAPER RPG, that was tied into the TABLETOP WARGAME. If anyone is old enough to get the reference.
In all honesty, they really should. These two major game mechanics are ones that force change in the current mechanics of non-MMO RTS's, and thus, in accordance with your recommendations, future MMORTS's should build upon these suggestions from the ground up. I love how in depth this episode was! Great job!
Great episode, as always. It's just such a shame that you had to leave "The Escapist", it was fun having all these different types of game-enthusiasts on one site.
The ideal MMORTS you are describing reminds me a lot of Shattered Galaxy. You have your units which you can purchase, and as you play you earn credits for upgrades and new units. You were only allowed to take a certain number of number into a battle, and there was an overworld map just like you described. It is still around, though I haven't played in years. You may want to check it out.
One thing regarding base building, I think global resistance might have had a good idea where each players base actually exists separately from the overworld, this prevents bases from cluttering the landscape and allows you to enter combat from different areas of the overworld
Also, take a look at how Shadowbane, Eve, and Darkfall. Because they have player cities / stations, they do form abstract RTS. Players must gather resources, build bases, defend them, and attack others. I don't think much of the gameplay will translate to a full on MMORTS, but these games do demonstrate how players will act if given a persistent world in which to build up and progress their strength, and how they would use it against stronger and weaker opponents.
Agree with @TGAmplitudo. 10six was an early MMORTS (PC; published by Sega). It wasn't perfect, but it was a ton of fun. It's still around, renamed to Project Visitor.
I think there's a lesson to be learned from browser games like Utopia, Planetarion, and Archmage. They've all had to tackle the problems of having massive, persistent strategic worlds, and how online and offline players and their bases interact.
If i am not mistaken you there was that style world in Chromehounds multiplayer and Endwar. MIx it wil battleforge cards which should be on the scale of pokemon and the MMORTS is made. Lots of Unit types, Dyanminc world mentioned in the video and value to the units in a way to warhammer. Also if it is cards(like battleforge) then it could work as free to play.
@penultimatey examiner.com/video-game-culture-in-new-york/extra-credits-leaves-escapist -- Basically, miscommunication, poor payment choice & careless words by Escapist management escalated way too far. Hope EC goes back to EscMag. It's still full of fantastic content, but there'll be a big hole from EC leaving. At the same time, I don't check my YT subs, so this is a lose-lose-lose scenario for EC, EscMag, and viewers as myself.
@dashdeception It was just a very good one and is very popular. If they were to use the first RTS people may not know what they are talking about, a lot of people have played starcraft. Think the first rts was dune though right?
How could you do an episode on MMORTS and not mention Shattered Galaxy? It features pretty much everything you've mentioned and has been out for years.
@Bytefox Shattered Galaxy was an amazing game for its time, and I completely agree. A new game with that basic model but better balanced would be fucking amazing.
Good old YouTube indeed. Glad I found you guys here after the whole Escapist issue. I loved your videos there, and I love them here. Even donated ten bucks to Alison's cause. Good luck with your future endeavors, guys!
If you're skeptical about purchasing the game, there's a demo that's already all finished and packaged up, Valve just needs to get off their fat asses and make it available on Steam.
he mentions defence of the ancients.... why the hell is there a picture of legue of ledgends comming up? its the moba game farthest from dota in style...
@Freakydemon well u cant buy power for the sake of power you can buy the ability to have a power civ for competitive gameplay but u cant actualy buy power beyond that. is not like a micro transaction where paying 3 times gives you more power in any way shape or form than paying 1 time
The "problem" with doing match system and claiming it's MMO for RTS is the lack of "Progression". Sure some unit does +x extra damage then when your first started. But people who think that all it is are completley missing the point.
In RPGs progression means you can now go place that you couldnt before and things that once gave you trouble are now a breeze. In an RTS this mean you start managing things on an even higher level. See new tactics and options open up and NOT +x damage to marines.
Thus far I've only really seen one MMORTS that was what I consider a true MMORTS, and not some regular RTS with tacked on gameworld features. That game is "Mankind" which continues to toil in obsurity.
Mankind was a good MMORTS as it provided a vast persistant universe where the players could build and engage in battle at any time. Ultimately it suffers from a fairly clumbsy interface which can easily turn most people off. A simlar model with better UI and depth I think could do well.
I disagree with your suggestion because it sounds like the same mistake you blame others of falling into. Your suggestion is little more then standard RTS where your individual wins simply contribute towards a team/faction ranking more so then an individual one.
I feel there are two types of RTS Players. First likes the tactic level control and are more likely not to be as interested in a real MMORPG. The second is those who like the management side and already play games like Ogame.
4:49 sounds a lot like Chromehounds. Technically it was a mech pilot game but with some of the balance options (like points costs as you mentioned) it could be done as a RTS.
this is the first one of your videos that I disagree with you on the majority of. The problem is that you are looking at it not as a MMORTS, but as a MMORPGRTS which is different....
Most of the other problems you bring up are really easily handled with one question. What happens when a player loses completely? All other problems are pretty much just need an AI system like FFXII's gambit system.
An MMORTS player would advance by expanding not lvling & in doing so create their own challenge(s)
Did anyone bring up Vendetta-Online? I found it to be a well balanced MMORTS with a very fun premise based on skill in combination with in-game upgrades. Haven't logged on in some time, not sure what has changed recently...
@stackman120 Vendetta Online is not an RTS. Vendetta Online is an Elite-style Space Trader MMO. I don't know what game you're talking about, but its not Vendetta Online.
@alphacentfanguy Never finished? The people have been running it for 10 years? Just Milking a cash cow?
Well the overall suggestion made about Metagame in EC was realy what Shattered Galaxy employed. So for a proper MMORTS need to make more signifcant thank suggested and employed.
@Grizabeebles Instead of making a killed unit 100% gone, perhaps a better idea would be to force the player to buy them back at the end of the mission.
Regarding Resource Collection: I think that instead of making it like it is in normal RTS games, it's more like it is in an MMORPG. Unit caps are set with Requisition, but Gold/Minerals/Tiberium/etc... are what are gathered to buy and upgrade your units between missions.
@SAMASzero Alternately, the "Gold" resource (See "You Require More Vespene Gas" on TV Tropes for details) is done as part of the Meta-Economy. Part of the mission could be to gather a certain amount of "Gold", and a member of a clan/force can be delegated to mining duty (a good way for n00bs to gain experience in a larger battle)
Instead of bases, I would suggest something more like the Mothership in Homeworld. Something mobile that can be packed up, moved and deployed to the battlefield.
This is totally off. It doesn't sound like a full fledged mmorts. It sounds more like a multiplayer game with some "world game lobby".
A game like tribalwars has potential if it's properly made. Stronhold kingdoms failed at many things, and the microtransaction system totally ruined it.
My greatest issue with these games is that they're either pay to win, or farm to win, and usually you're also required to be online at the right moment. This reduces the impact that strategy has.
I just said they fail because they're actually not mmorts games. There would definitely be potential for a real persisten world mmorts that's good. Just look at how many players tribalwars has had.
As I said, what he says is completely off (like the +3 dmg part). There's a huge difference between the strategy in starcraft and tribal wars. Politics/Diplomacy would be a major part of such a game, which would overshadow minor balance issues.
Chrome Hounds (Xbox 360) had a very similar mechanic, where players would choose a nation to be part of, and battle to control territories. The more games you played, the more you influenced the control of that territory. I miss that game.
Glad to see ExtraCredits is still around. I almost had a heart attack. Keep doing what you're doing!
I loved the use of the Industroscout: Scouting Remix at the end, awesome 'tip of the hat' sorta gesture to give to Petroglyph (Formerly Westwood)
PurpRange 1 month ago
Ponies.
Awesome.
7677876 1 month ago
102 people dont know what balancing a game would even mean
caboosefan1 2 months ago in playlist Favorite videos
freaking awsome video...
caboosefan1 2 months ago
Ponies was here.
Digiscat 2 months ago
The fixed base issue is true, lookat Evony.
dinoballz 2 months ago
rofl dvd rewinder joke, ponies and BTTF references, this artist is officially awesome.
635574 2 months ago
Sooo No mention of Age of Empires online? It seems to be doin pretty well
Avenger131 3 months ago in playlist More videos from ExtraCreditz
Even though we said that we wouldn't discuss moding for RTS quite yet, I feel that any Risk game on Warcraft 3, does this the best. If you go on to Battle-net, you can see dozens of theses at anytime and all of them are really good. Instead of collecting your supplies threw mines or trees, you get gold from taking other countries. Other countries are made up of several cities that you must occupy. More cities, bigger income from that country. This works amazingly well.
nightfire734 3 months ago
PONIES!
adecoy95 3 months ago
End of Nations?...
MortarGuyX 3 months ago
Ok i understand that everyone has probably already realised this but 1st of all i dont remember who told it but "we need to realise that mmo rpg and mmo are not Sinonimus" does mmo mean progresion? or does it simply mean that you play with a lot of players? so no of that outbalancing with upgrades bs.. . well on the "older players always win" isue well the thing is once you get defeated. so you can out play the huge army with nothing but a good startegy so the only problem is the map and log-out
xvm9999 4 months ago
Dawn of fantasy is a game like the dude explained in the video that a mmorts should be.
szeboro 4 months ago
Shattered Galaxy. It's been done, and done very well.
thesorehead 4 months ago
thats a clever video there bud.
angrymalakas 4 months ago
What about Heroes Of Might And Magic: Kingdoms?
Mykayel 4 months ago
Because it bears repeating: Shattered Galaxy already did this.
Look it up, it's free to play now. It is an old game, and it's showing it's age, but it's the still the best MMORTS ever made, even considering the information that's been released about End of Nations so far.
shadowics 4 months ago 9
Comment removed
TheRealSerps 5 months ago
What aboute Age of Empiers Online?...
Glottris 5 months ago in playlist Fler videoklipp från ExtraCreditz
Interesting take on MMORTSes. I don't find the idea all that appealing, but then again I never found MMORPGs very appealing.
What I'd like to see is a multiplayer RTS with larger teams, with each player controlling a part of an army. Think Battlefield 2, with "generals" managing high-level strategy, "commanders" (or something) managing resources and domestic stuff, and "captains" each commanding a platoon of troops, as directed by their superiors.
Does anything like this exist?
airandfingers 5 months ago
@airandfingers Starcraft 2 can be played like this; actually age of empires II was able to be played like this with shared unit control. It isnt as organized as youre talking about but it does allow one person to focus on macro and others to focus on micro battles.
I made a map for warcraft 3 that was like what you're describing where one player plays warcraft 3 with no heroes and his 3 allies play the heroes and only control the units given to them.
wrath230000 5 months ago
@wrath230000 Hey, thanks for the info! I didn't know AoE II had shared unit control, but I know that wc3's/sc2's shared unit control doesn't come close to what I'm talking about.. for starters, even with shared unit control I can't spend my allies' resources or use their buildings to train units.
The closest thing I've seen to this was the sc1 mode in which each team controls the units from a single base. But 2-4 people controlling a single base is booooring.
Your wc3 map sounds awesome ^^
airandfingers 5 months ago
can I hear a "AWARARERRRRRR COMMAND AND & CONQUER!!!!!" for the outro?
manlyman147 5 months ago
@manlyman147 THE MEMORIES!! OH the sweet memories are collapsing around me like a deck of cards!
TheAnonymousComedy 5 months ago
like rise of nations?
WhenTheMK 5 months ago
soooo nobody's asked the question , why do we want an mmorts?......
iamLI3 5 months ago in playlist More videos from ExtraCreditz
Right before they mentioned it, I was like "BUT THIS SOUNDS LIKE SHOGUN 2?!".
VitalForce100 5 months ago
I would go one step further and have a world ranking system.
Start out in the newbie world and then as you get more skilled (not more advanced level but more skilled at playing (you get a higher win to loss ratio)) Give the option of moving up to a more advanced area, that way the power players and causal players would have some separation and both could enjoy the game.
Eoph 5 months ago
I had an idea for an MMORTS, but as an ameteur game designer who has yet to release their first game, it's still a long ways away. Chances are someone will tap that mana lode before my idea comes to full fruition, and if I want to get my game produced, it will have to be a clone of that one :(
Seijitsu0 5 months ago in playlist More videos from ExtraCreditz
i am never going on the escapist again
tibblewinks 5 months ago
what about the new Age of Empires online?!
008abdullah 5 months ago 2
End of Nations looks promising.
djeminescu 5 months ago
Shattered Galaxy!
ColetZee 5 months ago
@ColetZee That's certainly what i was thinking when i watched the video xD
ookami38 5 months ago
Wow, sounds a lot like Age Of Empires....
Sc2mapper117 5 months ago
can you upload your old videos again? like gamifying education and aeshetics vs graphics please?
evilzaraRB 5 months ago 43
@evilzaraRB no, they can't. the escapist owns them.
viking977 5 months ago
@evilzaraRB You can find them on kirithem's channel.
AramanthOfMari 5 months ago
@evilzaraRB
I think the reason they don't do that is probably because those videos are legally owned by the escapist.
Andrydoood 5 months ago
Your idea sounds similar to Endwar, sure it may work but that's not what i want from an MMO RTS. World in Conflict with just a huge map and slightly increased unit cap is what i want. What people want from an MMORTS is scale and the WiC formula will provide that without over burdening the player resulting in a deterioration of tactical play.
ItsAComment 5 months ago
Age of Empiers online is doing pritty much what u just said
tearge0 5 months ago
Why do we want better MMOs? Runescape is perfec-*Gets shot*
ApprenticeNick 5 months ago
This just sounds like Shogun 2 Total war multiplayer.
Alphab3t4 5 months ago
@Alphab3t4 Nevermind my previous comment :3
Alphab3t4 5 months ago
ENDWAR HOW IS THIS NOT MENTIONED, ENDWAR USUES THESE EXACT MECHANICS
varicen 5 months ago
Once you throw resource collecting out of the gameplay, stop calling it a RTS. It became a RTT (Real Time Tactics) game at that point.
aquapendulum 5 months ago
You mentioned it in the who but when you said how it would work you pretty much pointed it out again. Warmachine does world events and to keep track of them they use that map idea you guys mentioned. So basically play table top online and you have MMORTS......
Arcainreaper 5 months ago
I am so happy I found you guys! I thought you left the video business and disappeared off the face of the earth when i could not find you on the "previous" website. I will not say the site.
lostfan29 5 months ago
its really sad that ypur off the escpist becuase there greedy asses
njrk97 5 months ago
Can I haz Zergling.jpg?
TheSecretCobra 5 months ago in playlist Videos from ExtraCreditz
5:19... That's going to be a quick match.
XzoahX 5 months ago
actually moving your "base" = "all that you own" around is a pretty f*****g pain in EVE Online... I hate it. If you own a couple of big ships and want to move over to a new place because your new corp is around there you need to fly most of them there one at a time. There are freighters in the game for carrying the other stuff but not ships - and especially not the giant capital ships.
theulair 5 months ago
Relic has said that Dawn of War 3 will incorporate more MMO elements into it. Given that they're already using the Warhammer (40,000) universe, it would make sense to put all these ideas into action there. The points idea is ripped straight out of the Warhammer tabletop, so it would make perfect sense to use in a W40K MMORTS. You could have various factions vying for control of a planet(s) or star system(s). Seems like the perfect setup for an MMORTS.
browncoat697 5 months ago in playlist More videos from ExtraCreditz
You guys should look up Kenshi. You know what here. /watch?v=cXcuZV77UJY&feature=player_embedded I think this could work.
crazyjak56 5 months ago
The only RTS I could ever get into is Pikmin.... AND I LOVE IT! =D
ShyGuyXXL 5 months ago
@ShyGuyXXL execpt for the simple fact that while it is a good game , pikmin isnt an RTS
ieetmelon 5 months ago
@ieetmelon Why not? RTS means real time strategie, right? What else should it be?
ShyGuyXXL 5 months ago
I should suggest everyone trying a MMORTS to play
Shattered Galaxy it is not quite there but it comes close yet there are a few balance problems and leveling is a steep curve but it might be the right step towards the future of MMORTS
dwaynejurcka 5 months ago
Was this made before Age of Empires: Online was released?
GigaBoost 5 months ago
...Doctor Who AND My little pony references? Marry me.
Dewkeeper 5 months ago
If I had known you guy were doing this I would have said to check out backyard monsters. It's a facebook game, but it's really good
Snababo 5 months ago
Hey, wherever you all go, I'll watch what you got when it's good. Keep up the amazing work and hang in there.
dalsio 5 months ago
Lol Gendo Ikari FTW
Yet another AWESOME VIDEO.
(Intro made me, too)
AsianFan111 5 months ago
Comment removed
azdor87 5 months ago
more games should have +bacon
cybernator5000 5 months ago
Oh, I just viewed all the comments and searched "Shattered Galaxy" and was surprised. You can't really claim that NO ONE knows of it.
I too was reminded of it by this video and can't believe it wasn't mentioned.
Niilomaan 6 months ago
@Niilomaan You are totally right. I played Shattered Galaxy when it was still part of Nexon. Way back in 2001. It had everything that was mentioned in the video. Getting more Clout meant getting more units but they would be weaker so 12 vs 6 with a guy with 6 units all tech'd up might beat the 12. I kinda wish Nexon kept Sgalaxy so we might still had some updates instead of the reincar events.
TheHiroshiro 5 months ago
I'm so glad that you guys mentioned the Myth series. Some times I feel like I'm the only one who remembers those games. :)
TheScandinavianOne 6 months ago in playlist Fler videoklipp från ExtraCreditz
Yall may also want to look at Backyard Monsters, although the way it works is more like some kind of chaotic tower defense game with RTS elements.
weirdguy8888 6 months ago in playlist Videos from ExtraCreditz
They DO have an MMORTS! It works really really well, its called HEARTS OF IRON, they're up to their 3rd installment of the game. The only catch is that its based in the WW2 area
clydethegreaty 6 months ago
did i miss the memo where you guys stopped doing videos on the escapist?
danoodledooddle 6 months ago
EC, if you haven't already you should check out Warlords battle cry 2
(older game 2002 I think). Its not an mmo by any means, but it is an rts that has a lot of what you have just talked about.
CorruptingFate 6 months ago
Tom Clancey's Endwar had a great online mode that worked as an MMORTS.
minookalax25 6 months ago in playlist More videos from ExtraCreditz
That sounds an awful lot like Shattered Galaxy. That came out almost 7 years ago, and it is almost identical.
jrggrop 6 months ago
If they did it like warlords battle cry...It may work.
smith21502 6 months ago
Has anyone heard Project Terra? It's like an MMORTS, but it's mostly based on a country leader simulation. The trick is that everything is controlled player base, economy, market stuff, wars, everything. There are even times where you'll have to work together. The wars are kind of like an RTS, but aren't much. The game is still in Alpha, so don't expect much.
AssassinRecruit 6 months ago
Small man groups of maybe 5 to 6 units that can die and thus have value and need to be replaced when dead along with some choose players you are best at fighting and maybe even an open world where you need to find a "safe spot" for your units to sleep when you log out to which they are vulnerable when you are not logged on might be interesting to maybe when the player is not logged on his units play via computer controlled so it would be of the players best interest to get them to a safe spot.
Dartinin 6 months ago
@Dartinin kinda old fallout game play with rpg and rts gameplay elements
Dartinin 6 months ago
I was wondering where you guys disappeared to. Sorry to hear about The Escapist drama. Hope things work out mate.
KravenLupei 6 months ago
Welcome back to YouTube, though on a new channel.
Soulsphere001 6 months ago
The impossible sheet music at 4:52 is hilarious to look at...great episode, by the way!
2snappedshins 6 months ago in playlist More videos from ExtraCreditz
Have you guys ever heard of or played Shattered Galaxies? Very old game but it utilized several of the systems discussed in this episode and was...mostly effective for it.
Synazrael 6 months ago
I have no reason to go to the Escapist anymore. Community became emo 2 years ago, Unforgotten Realms got kicked and now this.
nathan0dts 6 months ago
End Of Nations! well, I want it. They seem to have solved it. I hope
Poogist 6 months ago
also dvd rewinder as a advanced equipment example FTW
KailowKrow 6 months ago in playlist More videos from ExtraCreditz
this is why i think scrolls is going to do really well they are doing exactly that
KailowKrow 6 months ago in playlist More videos from ExtraCreditz
Personally, I expect an MMO RTS to play a bit like the Dawn of War 2 Campaign.
Daikaze 6 months ago
Why mention DotA and show a splash of LoL?
ZellMurasame 6 months ago
Seriously, that sounded like a complete description of End of Nations
darkimpact100 6 months ago
Oh hey. I think End of Nations is doing exactly what you're talking about here.
SexyMelon 6 months ago
Mechwarrior was a fine example, and I am talking about the PEN AND PAPER RPG, that was tied into the TABLETOP WARGAME. If anyone is old enough to get the reference.
Sunkincid 6 months ago
Take notes, Blizzard!
In all honesty, they really should. These two major game mechanics are ones that force change in the current mechanics of non-MMO RTS's, and thus, in accordance with your recommendations, future MMORTS's should build upon these suggestions from the ground up. I love how in depth this episode was! Great job!
czarmurphy 6 months ago
Another game in the MMORTS genre that would be worth watching is "Novous Aeterno". The music is nothing short of breathtaking : )
DragonmasterNOR 6 months ago
2:25
The Narwhal Bacons at Midnight
CCCM89 6 months ago
I was going to mention OGame, but I see you've already covered that. :)
N0M04RB4115 6 months ago
Great episode, as always. It's just such a shame that you had to leave "The Escapist", it was fun having all these different types of game-enthusiasts on one site.
TheOnlyGM 6 months ago
Another fantastic episode. Thank you.
The ideal MMORTS you are describing reminds me a lot of Shattered Galaxy. You have your units which you can purchase, and as you play you earn credits for upgrades and new units. You were only allowed to take a certain number of number into a battle, and there was an overworld map just like you described. It is still around, though I haven't played in years. You may want to check it out.
XiaDun 6 months ago
The intro made me lol.
stan12121212able 6 months ago 18
One thing regarding base building, I think global resistance might have had a good idea where each players base actually exists separately from the overworld, this prevents bases from cluttering the landscape and allows you to enter combat from different areas of the overworld
Boom12495 6 months ago
5:46
the raptor is back! :D
LintuWaterfall 6 months ago
man i was upset when i couldn't find extra credits on the escapist. i'm glad you are still making videos.
matt2884 6 months ago
Also, take a look at how Shadowbane, Eve, and Darkfall. Because they have player cities / stations, they do form abstract RTS. Players must gather resources, build bases, defend them, and attack others. I don't think much of the gameplay will translate to a full on MMORTS, but these games do demonstrate how players will act if given a persistent world in which to build up and progress their strength, and how they would use it against stronger and weaker opponents.
PsicDark 6 months ago
Agree with @TGAmplitudo. 10six was an early MMORTS (PC; published by Sega). It wasn't perfect, but it was a ton of fun. It's still around, renamed to Project Visitor.
I think there's a lesson to be learned from browser games like Utopia, Planetarion, and Archmage. They've all had to tackle the problems of having massive, persistent strategic worlds, and how online and offline players and their bases interact.
PsicDark 6 months ago
If i am not mistaken you there was that style world in Chromehounds multiplayer and Endwar. MIx it wil battleforge cards which should be on the scale of pokemon and the MMORTS is made. Lots of Unit types, Dyanminc world mentioned in the video and value to the units in a way to warhammer. Also if it is cards(like battleforge) then it could work as free to play.
MrMatthewEx 6 months ago
I know this is a dumb question but why did you guys get taken off the escapist?
penultimatey 6 months ago
@penultimatey examiner.com/video-game-culture-in-new-york/extra-credits-leaves-escapist -- Basically, miscommunication, poor payment choice & careless words by Escapist management escalated way too far. Hope EC goes back to EscMag. It's still full of fantastic content, but there'll be a big hole from EC leaving. At the same time, I don't check my YT subs, so this is a lose-lose-lose scenario for EC, EscMag, and viewers as myself.
StosselClassroom 6 months ago
oh man, i did not know this was here, yay extracredits is back
LewisAM37 6 months ago
End song made me jizz, true RTS fans will know what it is ;)
TheRealJellyMcNelly 6 months ago
Just don't make a MMORTS?
NightHawk767 6 months ago
What you described sounded a lot like Shattered Galaxy.
DarkSkill56 6 months ago
Immitiately subscribed when I noticed 404 on Escapist.
Go Extra Credits!
Not visiting Escapist anymore after their pathetic moves, although Zero Punctuation is still cool.
RealationGames 6 months ago
Comment removed
frozenfisherman 6 months ago
like starcraft was the first RTS...what a fucking idiot
dashdeception 6 months ago
@dashdeception It was just a very good one and is very popular. If they were to use the first RTS people may not know what they are talking about, a lot of people have played starcraft. Think the first rts was dune though right?
MrMatthewEx 6 months ago
How could you do an episode on MMORTS and not mention Shattered Galaxy? It features pretty much everything you've mentioned and has been out for years.
Bytefox 6 months ago
@Bytefox Shattered Galaxy was an amazing game for its time, and I completely agree. A new game with that basic model but better balanced would be fucking amazing.
anoncastillo 6 months ago
*ahem*Chromehounds*ahem*
Mikeio2002 6 months ago
Can someone fill me in on what happened as in why extra credits left the escapist and what's this I heard about they making a game dev company?
SpikeTheSpiker 6 months ago
Dawn of Fantasy comes to mind. :)
shurcooL 6 months ago
so.... he basically described Dynasty Warriors Online?
legendaryhero90 6 months ago
Can someone PLEASE tell me...WTH HAPPENED!?!? I just visit Escapist today and didnt find Extra-Credits...then...FIASCO....Im lost O_o
jose2090 6 months ago
Good old YouTube indeed. Glad I found you guys here after the whole Escapist issue. I loved your videos there, and I love them here. Even donated ten bucks to Alison's cause. Good luck with your future endeavors, guys!
MovingTarget85 6 months ago
@MovingTarget85
Sorry but what happened with the Escapist 'cause i couldn't find you guys on their site anymore
DLCJRpc 6 months ago
This is the MMORTS you are looking for. sgalaxy.com/
firemaker005 6 months ago
Wait i dont get something what happened to The escapist?
akagamepro 6 months ago
@akagamepro Basicly. They didn't get pay
Gollum544 6 months ago
Nothing new in the RTS genre? How about, oh, I don't know, FREAKING TIME TRAVEL?
Look up "Achron".
Nixitur 6 months ago 20
@Nixitur I had completely forgotten about Achron.
alphacentfanguy 6 months ago
@Nixitur Oh, hey! They released it three days ago!
alphacentfanguy 6 months ago
@alphacentfanguy Yup, they did!
If you're skeptical about purchasing the game, there's a demo that's already all finished and packaged up, Valve just needs to get off their fat asses and make it available on Steam.
Nixitur 6 months ago
@Nixitur AMEN
phatbman 6 months ago
@Nixitur I think they mentioned that in a previous video.
MikalMirkas 5 months ago
@MikalMirkas I'm pretty sure they didn't. However, I might be wrong. But since I'm both a big EC and a big Achron fan, I probably would have noticed.
Nixitur 5 months ago
@Nixitur I would go ahead and find that video for you but since they took down all of their videos from the Escapist, I can't tell you...or did they?
*Checks DailyMotion*
I am sure that they referenced it at one time or another. I can't remember the title of the video.
MikalMirkas 5 months ago
OGAME REFERENCE!! squeee~!
theShamus 6 months ago
he mentions defence of the ancients.... why the hell is there a picture of legue of ledgends comming up? its the moba game farthest from dota in style...
sageslarres 6 months ago
Age of Empires Online
markencinas4 6 months ago
@markencinas4 Yeah a game where you buy power is really balanced.....
Freakydemon 6 months ago
@Freakydemon well u cant buy power for the sake of power you can buy the ability to have a power civ for competitive gameplay but u cant actualy buy power beyond that. is not like a micro transaction where paying 3 times gives you more power in any way shape or form than paying 1 time
irmoantares 6 months ago
He just described Shattered Galaxy..
PwnedYoAss 6 months ago
The "problem" with doing match system and claiming it's MMO for RTS is the lack of "Progression". Sure some unit does +x extra damage then when your first started. But people who think that all it is are completley missing the point.
In RPGs progression means you can now go place that you couldnt before and things that once gave you trouble are now a breeze. In an RTS this mean you start managing things on an even higher level. See new tactics and options open up and NOT +x damage to marines.
PyroMancer2k 6 months ago
...
Thus far I've only really seen one MMORTS that was what I consider a true MMORTS, and not some regular RTS with tacked on gameworld features. That game is "Mankind" which continues to toil in obsurity.
Mankind was a good MMORTS as it provided a vast persistant universe where the players could build and engage in battle at any time. Ultimately it suffers from a fairly clumbsy interface which can easily turn most people off. A simlar model with better UI and depth I think could do well.
PyroMancer2k 6 months ago
I disagree with your suggestion because it sounds like the same mistake you blame others of falling into. Your suggestion is little more then standard RTS where your individual wins simply contribute towards a team/faction ranking more so then an individual one.
I feel there are two types of RTS Players. First likes the tactic level control and are more likely not to be as interested in a real MMORPG. The second is those who like the management side and already play games like Ogame.
PyroMancer2k 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
4:49 sounds a lot like Chromehounds. Technically it was a mech pilot game but with some of the balance options (like points costs as you mentioned) it could be done as a RTS.
ultratog1028 6 months ago
Comment removed
ultratog1028 6 months ago
this is the first one of your videos that I disagree with you on the majority of. The problem is that you are looking at it not as a MMORTS, but as a MMORPGRTS which is different....
Most of the other problems you bring up are really easily handled with one question. What happens when a player loses completely? All other problems are pretty much just need an AI system like FFXII's gambit system.
An MMORTS player would advance by expanding not lvling & in doing so create their own challenge(s)
Durakken 6 months ago
this pretty much sounds like a Total War MMO, I like that idea.
FlashlightClawk 6 months ago
I believe if they made an rts that was the same as fallout tactics. It would be very successful
GunSlingingGames 6 months ago
this reminds me a bit of shogun 2 ;o
zeretex 6 months ago
@zeretex scratch that, just watched entire vid
zeretex 6 months ago
Did anyone bring up Vendetta-Online? I found it to be a well balanced MMORTS with a very fun premise based on skill in combination with in-game upgrades. Haven't logged on in some time, not sure what has changed recently...
stackman120 6 months ago
@stackman120 Vendetta Online is not an RTS. Vendetta Online is an Elite-style Space Trader MMO. I don't know what game you're talking about, but its not Vendetta Online.
alphacentfanguy 6 months ago
Halleluiah! I found you guys again!
Lukyo1984 6 months ago
I like the MMO monster!!
veggix1991 6 months ago
I KNOW THAT SONG!!! THATS FROM TIBERIAN SUN!!!!! WOOOOT! :D
ginsengaddict 6 months ago
So basicly what was said "Go play Shattered Galaxy". It ticks off all the thing that was said should be an MMORTS
Akyho 6 months ago
@Akyho Except it was never finished, and there's really no point to the overall metagame.
alphacentfanguy 6 months ago
@alphacentfanguy Never finished? The people have been running it for 10 years? Just Milking a cash cow?
Well the overall suggestion made about Metagame in EC was realy what Shattered Galaxy employed. So for a proper MMORTS need to make more signifcant thank suggested and employed.
Akyho 6 months ago
Also shows, Blizzards achievements in actually making these things work, while everyone just complains without thinking.
Belbecat 6 months ago
"40K-esque Model"
Players have 2 resources: "rank" and "requisition"
"rank"- controls the number of units you may command and unit types
"requisition" - controls how much point cost you may spend
surviving units earn XP and may level up after each battle
all unit deaths are 100% fatal - thus adding "realistic" risk/reward for bringing veterans
"commanders" do not gain levels linearly and may be "demoted" for poor performance
each contested territory can house "X" players and an NPC garrison
Grizabeebles 6 months ago
@Grizabeebles Instead of making a killed unit 100% gone, perhaps a better idea would be to force the player to buy them back at the end of the mission.
Regarding Resource Collection: I think that instead of making it like it is in normal RTS games, it's more like it is in an MMORPG. Unit caps are set with Requisition, but Gold/Minerals/Tiberium/etc... are what are gathered to buy and upgrade your units between missions.
SAMASzero 6 months ago
@SAMASzero Alternately, the "Gold" resource (See "You Require More Vespene Gas" on TV Tropes for details) is done as part of the Meta-Economy. Part of the mission could be to gather a certain amount of "Gold", and a member of a clan/force can be delegated to mining duty (a good way for n00bs to gain experience in a larger battle)
Instead of bases, I would suggest something more like the Mothership in Homeworld. Something mobile that can be packed up, moved and deployed to the battlefield.
SAMASzero 6 months ago
Comment removed
jonnymovieboy 6 months ago
I thought Soul Master had a great idea, but it was cancelled after beta. They said they would bring it back but idk. Either way great game.
SJmapler 6 months ago
WOOOOOOOOOOOH!
Dudeman9339 6 months ago
This is totally off. It doesn't sound like a full fledged mmorts. It sounds more like a multiplayer game with some "world game lobby".
A game like tribalwars has potential if it's properly made. Stronhold kingdoms failed at many things, and the microtransaction system totally ruined it.
My greatest issue with these games is that they're either pay to win, or farm to win, and usually you're also required to be online at the right moment. This reduces the impact that strategy has.
Robin90modell 6 months ago
@Robin90modell
And as he explained these "full fledged mmorts" dont work. And as it seems you agree with him.
That's why they shold take a diffrent route and what he said seems quite plausible.
If you go for true real-time game play you will ALWAYS end up with the problems he mentioned.
Aspartem 6 months ago
@Aspartem
I just said they fail because they're actually not mmorts games. There would definitely be potential for a real persisten world mmorts that's good. Just look at how many players tribalwars has had.
As I said, what he says is completely off (like the +3 dmg part). There's a huge difference between the strategy in starcraft and tribal wars. Politics/Diplomacy would be a major part of such a game, which would overshadow minor balance issues.
Robin90modell 6 months ago
I laughed very hard at the end comment - about it feels like coming back to your parents house...
Anyhow, keep up the good work EC, I look forward to joining you at your new place.
pentbot 6 months ago
Anyone kept thinking of End of Nations during this vid?
Traviskolber 6 months ago
Chrome Hounds (Xbox 360) had a very similar mechanic, where players would choose a nation to be part of, and battle to control territories. The more games you played, the more you influenced the control of that territory. I miss that game.
Glad to see ExtraCredits is still around. I almost had a heart attack. Keep doing what you're doing!
Kith000 6 months ago