A science question for VenomFangX and other Christians

[zigora3]

What the commentator seems to have referred to in Joshua 10.

"And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day." Joshua 10:13

[zigora3]

@zigora3 He is probably referring to the statement of the sun being stopped by God.

1. Isn't movement relative?

2. The sun was stopped in the sky, in a manner of speaking.

3. Why would God bother telling them that their belief that the Sun revolves around the Earth is wrong when essentially it is rather trivial.

4. Since movement is relative, the Sun did stand still in the sky no matter whether you belief in geocentricism or mondern science, it's the same to one and all.

[BumJungle]

"if you able to have a rational conversation with a religious person there wouldnt be any religious people" House

[adancastillo2010]

I think that just to sum all things up so we can stop bickering: what one chooses to believe in no way shape or form defines who they are at least when it comes to their beliefs on how the world was created and operates. Neither party can without a shadow of a doubt prove their theories all we can do is agree to disagree and that's as close to common ground as we will get.

[Etherlich]

Just a thought, Biblical literalism is a new phenomenon, taken up by a few Christian groups over the last 50+ years. Many Christians also consider reason and tradition along with Biblical reference. The Bible should always be placed in the context that it was written between 1000-2000 years ago, by a patriarch based society who knew very little about the world around them.

[HimesInu]

@Etherlich I must disagree with you on your first sentence. There have been people since the beginning of Christianity that have taken the Bible literally. reason being is they had no other explanation of world phenomena. But even later than the beginning would be the Crusades or even the Burning Times. Though, I do agree with you it should be placed within said context.

[Etherlich]

@HimesInu Correct, there has always been a group of people that have taken the Bible literally, mostly for their own purpose. Mass scale literalism is however new, and in some cases horribly misguided, making all Christians look bad, similarly with Muslims and their extremist fringe.

[GermanConquistador08]

No and neither does the bible. Thank you. 

[kaderoder]

The Earth orbits the Sun, and wants to play. The Sun however is grumpy and has its arms folded.

This is a kids question, right?

[Kevster012]

Btw, whats the point of this video, cus anyone that has gone to school can tell you the Earth revolves around the sun.

[NUTCASE71733]

@Kevster012

The point is that there are still thosewho are geocentrists. NephilimFree is an example. Not sure about FVX.

[Kevster012]

The Earth orbits the sun, duh. Also Venomfangx is a imposter Christian, or at least last time i checked he was scamming people into believe he was good.

[AdemaLevel]

I BELIVE YOUR MUM IS ORBITING MY COCK

[DogTagsOfHeaven]

Earth orbits sun

Read book of Job

God Bless

[BreakinGuitarz33]

@DogTagsOfHeaven Im not what you would call religious, but I would certainly have done the research before I made a video like this..

[OJ604]

You should really pray for a better set of teeth to talk bullshit out of....... ask and thou shall receive, god bless......

[OJ604]

well I've never really noticed if the Sun orbits Earth or the Earth orbits the Sun, in school we're lead to believe that the Earth orbits the Sun.? so maybe thats correct, but it's all the same to me theres still A night and a day in 24 hours regardless, now I have a question for this really smart guy with the question: is there any way I could donate you some dental hygeine products, I would be willing to make a trip to wherever you are , Im assuming England?

[jeppep86]

dentist?

[barnskiano]

geocentism has nothing to do with the christian faith... this is a benign question

unless it says somewhere in the bible that the sun orbits the earth but i don't think it does

[KylesGotHardRock]

we are heliocentric, not geocentric

DID I DO GOOD?!

[WTFDauntless]

I love all these really long comments that say ur stupid and crap but dont acctully give an reply XD

[sm222]

The truth is it depends on where you place your point of reference. The Universe is expanding, so, there is much more going on in outerspace other than simple planet rotations.

I dare you to seek the the scientific truth instead of worshiping "Atheist Peer Review". God wants us to think for ourselves and have proof for our worship of Him. Making a commitment to science will cost you your freedom. The scientific method is a constraint to induce true facts. Science is truly the enemy of atheism.

[sthcrox]

mrjonnewman, is the moon rotating around your head? or the other way round? hahaha!!!!!!!! sust soking! cheers!

[jchav981]

The earth orbits the sun.

[pocoapoco2]

It depends on what you define to be your static frame of reference. And also how you specificly define the word "orbit" meaning defined by the physical forces involved to produce the motion of the bodies relative to each other or by the appearance alone. Either of which is valid depending on its specific use. I know this question wasn't asked of me due to the fact that I believe the bible should most accurately be cataloged next to Steven King in the library.

[Nashy119]

It was a yes or no question, I don't see any yes or no answers, so if somebody does decide the answer the question make it a reply to my comment.

[Germericanboi]

BTW,inventing reasons for biblical inaccuracies doesn't make you right, it makes you retarded. 'Divine inspiration' (from GOD) which Christians use as their primary reasoning for biblical truth, should be DIVINE. There is no reason a perfect God would create such blatant and wreckless contradictions as found in that archaic text written by psychopathic goathearders and farmers.

[stematwork]

blatant and wreckless contradictions? can you be more specific?

divine inspiration doesn't mean God took the writers of the old and new testaments by the throat while dictating scripture to them.

it means he inspired them to record divine truth within the context of their place in history.

[jimmyboags]

he said as 100% literal fact.. even the strongest of those with faith never say that the bible can be literal fact.. there are errors in interpretations for alot of aspects.. none the less.. i like chickens... :)

[rajAsikhWithoutDoubt]

type in ZEITGEIST it completely disproves christianity and part of islam

[rajAsikhWithoutDoubt]

its like asking a strong christian if dinosaurs excisted 'cause the bible denies that anything before the date of the great flood (2036BC or sumfin like that)because everything was wiped out and everything on 'noahs arch' were the only ones to survive

[stematwork]

um, how do you know that the flood was in 2000 bc?

many scholars believe (i.e., Francis Shcaeffer) that the flood probably occured around 20,000bc...maybe much earlier.

[Baszottbivaly]

And did YOU know, that there was no flood? If there had been one, Noah and all other animals would have starved to death on a barren planet. Oh, and he had to take animals which breathe with their nostrils on the ship right? Riight. Well, then, need I remind you, that WHALES breathe with their nostrils? Stop to think for a second, for your own sake...

[stematwork]

oddly enough, every major religion supports a flood to some degree.

while waters are receding, grass and trees are recovering. and lets face it...if God started the flood, He certainly could spruce the place up a bit afterwards.

[Baszottbivaly]

Whoa, steady tiger. Every major religion? could you name 2 more? Besides, who cares if every religion supports this piece of fiction? And if god could have done everything ready-made, why the fuck bother with the flood? Oh, and if he just decided that his creations are to be destroyed, then he realized we're flawed. Not tolerating it is dictatorship. Not being able to fix it would be a mark of his weakness. Awaiting your response...

[jchav981]

Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hindu, and Bhuddism...shall I go on? Also the cultural and archaelogical evidence found supporting one. And God is able to fix it. That's the point of Christianity. He just doesn't force us. That would be rape. Please think before ou respond. Perhaps try to rebut your own thought before you make one, as common sense would lead you to such obvious answers. Yes, we're flawed, but forcing a "fix" would be dictatorial. We have Free Will.

[Baszottbivaly]

Indeed, so according to you BUDDHISM supports the flood, just like hinduism. Bet you couldn't show me a passage from them that says anything about noah and saved animals.

Oh, and fixing the problem, like I don't know, showing himself as a benefactor for once is dictatorship to you. Killing everyone else on the planet is not. Touching. Good luck in heaven. Oh, and Judaism, and islam dosn't count, that's the same damn religion, you just have different prophets.

[jchav981]

No, Bhuddism or Hindu do not have any passage about Noah. Their guy has a different name. As far as killing everyone on the planet, we found our own way to kill ourselves. You could say the only thing we're good at is destruction. Also, Judaism and Islam are two separate religions from Christianity. You're pretty stupid, aren't you? Arguing with you would be like arguing with a braying ass. "Hee-haw, hee-haw." GO do some more dope, you'll feel better and unaccountable.

[finbomartini]

JCHAV YOU'RE JUST A SELF-RIGHTEOUS MORON.

"the only thing humanity is good at is destruction" I'm not even going to argue this point because it's obvious you're completely wrong.

[jchav981]

finbo, you're not going to argue the point because you have no argument. Otherwise, you'd point out where it's obvious I'm wrong. Instead, you want to look intelligent, so you say "I'm not going to argue this point." Go have a few martinis and think about things a little more before making assinine comments.

[Baszottbivaly]

Don't waste your time trying to impose guilt on me. Judaism, Christianity, and Islam worship THE SAME FUCKING GOD! Your prophets are the only thing different. Want your stupid statement refuted? How about science tripling the life expectations of humans? How about medicine, food, technology? The fucking computer you post your idiotic rants from? Causes of destruction right? YOU however, are a valid subject for this statement. What good have YOU EVER DONE?

[jchav981]

Our prophets are not the only thing different you simple-minded moron. You haven't read anything regarding these religions, obviously, except for what someone told you to think. And if science has TRIPLED the life expectancy, then at one time, we were only living to about 27. Tell me, when was that, and cite your source. Yes, computers are used everyday to destroy life. Also, you haven't found any new treatments or discovered anything of scientific value. So who the hell are you? No one.

[Baszottbivaly]

Ok, the life expectancy was about 35 in the fucking middle ages, you ignorant fool. Open your damn history book. Also, would YOU name YOUR SOURCE? Mine is um you know, history. Or wait, better yet, here's what wikipedia says:Life expectancy increased dramatically in the 20th century. These changes are the result of a combination of factors including nutrition and public health, and medicine only marginally. The most important single factor in the increase is the reduction of death in infancy.

[jchav981]

35 times 3 is 105. That's not the life expectancy we see you pathetic wretch.

[jchav981]

LOL...history....lol...my my, what big sharp intellectual weapons you have!!!  LOL...idiot.

[Baszottbivaly]

This last sentence just makes me do the facepalm. You know, killing everyone on the fuckin' planet is pretty dictatorial to me.

[sikanderSB]

hi i'm actually rajAsikhWithoutDoubt i got a new account. ok i heard by sum of my christian friends that in the bible it says that the flood in 2000bc or sumfin. i wasnt lookin at the scientific or historic point i was sayin that from the biblical point of view and i am ex-christian. i was a convert to sikhism from the age of nine. i am now 19

[phalanx25]

Oh thats easy the sun I meen the moon orbits the sun and the earth obits no no the earth orbits with the moon but every summer the earth goes around venus I think or something like that.

[jortylbro]

Neither. They both orbit around the focus of their elliptical paths.

[strawberryfields1982]

hey maybe the way we orbit the sun isjust a illusion, it may appear we orbit the sun but if we could zoom to the very edge of the Universe we would see the bigger picture, that the whole universe revolves round the earth just a theory could this be possible?

[graaena]

Anything is possible. But what good would it do to try to figure out that God / The Bible can be proven by science? It hasnt done any good until now, that's for sure... It is two totally different questions. One is science, and the other is religion. The interference on one another always causes trouble. But I can't deny I'd like to hear mr VenomFAGx or whatever he calls himself answer it. :) peace.

[strawberryfields1982]

Exactly no one knows anything, sometimes we can figure out how certain things will react in certain situations but that is all! The bibles a strange book that is supposed to have meaning for the whole of eternity, add to that the bible code thing in the torah and it gets too a point were you have too look at every statement as a parable or open to interpritation! For instance the eye of a needle parable! Reading that you think it means you have too be poor to get too heaven but there con

[strawberryfields1982]

con is a place in the Holy land can't remember where called the eye of the needle inside it was the enclosed city were there was a market the local traders would have too strip their camels mules etc in order too get through the gap in the wall, so too cut a long story short it could be also interpretted as don't be untrusting and greedy otherwise you can't get too were you need too go heaven or the market!

[ChessClubMusic]

i believe annotions or words with a bouncing ball would be necessary for this vid

[mandybernard72]

i think that the earth orbits the sun. if you think about it like this Jesus is the Son and we are to follow Him, that sounded weird but yeah.

[brightscience]

Common center of gravity.

[Farhanizzle]

point to rageagainst20 :)

[Mina0008]

Do you think for yourself?

[Germericanboi]

This question is relevant because in the Bible, God is said to have stopped the sun for an extended period of time. A book that is divinely inspired by the creator of the heavens and the Earth should be clear on the very simple fact that our solar system is HELIO and not GEO centric, as was thought ignorantly for hundreds of years. The Earth orbits the sun, not the other way around.

[stematwork]

so, coloquiel expressions don't count in your estimation?

[Germericanboi]

I'm assuming that by coloquial you really mean figurative? And NO the passage about the sun stopping in the heavens, was not meant to be interpreted figuratively. The danger of picking and choosing when things are figurative and literal is in the power of the interpreter to gain control through influence.

[stematwork]

ok. you've just assumed the high road for interpretation. you've just decided that this is indeed literal. What i meant by coloquial is this: we still say that the "sun is going down" scientifically, this is incorrect.

it's not a huge leap to apply the same COLOQUIAL thought process to "the sun stopped for a day"

[Germericanboi]

It wasnt that 'the sun stopped for a day' it was that god 'held the sun in its place.' That's very different. Not to mention, the bible actually does center around the idea that the Earth is the center of the Universe. In Genesis for example, God is described as having created the sun moon and stars all on the fourth day, after already having created the heavens and the earth. This underlines the fact that the bible views the universe as geo and not helio centric.

[stematwork]

here's the kjv

And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. [Is] not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.

[Germericanboi]

BTW, colloquial means 'of or used in everyday informal, especially spoken, language.' An EXPRESSION can be referred to as colloquial, but a THOUGHT PROCESS cannot. Next time you try to pose an argument, spend less time watching fox news and more time with a grammar book, encyclopedia, or dictionary ;)

[stematwork]

what translation are you using, anyway? here's what i got:

NLT

So the sun and moon stood still until the Israelites had defeated their enemies. Is this event not recorded in [The Book of Jashar]? The sun stopped in the middle of the sky, and it did not set as on a normal day.

[stematwork]

so, i gave you a modern translation and an old school representation.

here's the deal...colloquialy, or, from the POV of an OT saint, the earth was the center. how does this take away from biblical innerancy? God clearly didn't hand out science degrees to Moses, Joshua, Isaiah etc. why should He? He inspired them to write what they did and they used their understanding of the world that they lived in to communicate.

[Germericanboi]

You are unbelievably ignorant of both biblical and scientific knowledge. Sorry, but your argument is way out in left field.

[stematwork]

hey, nice reply! totally full of facts, figures and reason!

1. you misquoted the scripture (unless you're willing to tell us what translation you're using) i've got 10 other translations and NONE of them say that "god held the sun"

2. you're setting the parameter of the debate using a misquote.

3. regardless of 1 and 2, you haven't demonstrated why a geocentric bible is a "fatal flaw" for the faith.

4. fox news has a great morning show

[Germericanboi]

1. Joshua 10:12 (ANY TRANSLATION) will exemplify that GOD commanded the sun and the moon to stand still.

2. I never directly quoted biblical text until just now, idiot.

3. A geocentric universe would be one in which stars orbit the planets, comets, meteors, asteroids. FACT: Earth orbits the sun, making our solar system HELIOCENTRIC.

4. Fox is the septic byproduct of scum like you.

[stematwork]

dude knows me well enough to call me scum...i love YOUTUBE debate!

1. thanks for clarifying the scripture. i notice God didn't hold the sun, but he did cause it to stand still.

2. geo or helio centric is only an issue for folks who think they've found something to discredit an ancient account of the supernatural.

3. BECAUSE, from Joshua's perspective, the sun did stand still. that's what's important about the story. He was giving an accurate historical account of a supernatural event.

[inexguitar2]

actually the sun orbits in our galaxy.. just saying

[prophetofyomomma]

And, yes, I am a Christian. Despite my name sounding kinda... anti-religion. It has a totally different meaning.

[prophetofyomomma]

You will need a frame of reference. Without one, you could say that either is true.

[jortylbro]

It doesn't depend on your perspective, because this is a non-inertial frame of reference. Newton's laws of physics would not hold if the Sun orbited around the Earth. Also, there are other planets that orbit around the Sun. Their retrograde motion, as viewed from Earth, does not make any sense otherwise.

[Watdoipick]

The earth orbits the sun. This happens because the sun's gravity holds it in place. Why?

[Rageagainst20]

So are you and your really poor grammar skills.

[chyrd]

I've looked up Chester as suggested, and only found him on christian websites, which make the stories validity suspect. It's tantamount to the crying statue stories you always hear, and Medjugorje. Sorry, it proves nothing. If it did... it would have been the biggest story ever as I'm sure you know...

[gerry37g]

The bible was written by men, reporting how it appears. So would you if had not been told different. by science..

yet Science can't explain why the motion of the planets defy the law of physics...that says they should all be spining in the same direction..they are not..

Consider the life of Chester Bedell/atheist who proved the existance of God in his death..

Do a web-search..

[chyrd]

Ever play pool? Know what "english" is?

Ever in a car accident? If you are going straight, and another car hits you on the driver side rear are you still going straight? Cops call it the Pitt Maneuver. Get it? The science isn't hard, it's called angular momentum. It is the measure of the extent to which the object will continue to rotate about that point unless acted upon by an external torque. The early solar system was full of things banging into each other.  That's where we get the moon

[duox]

again i ask where does the bible say the sun orbits then earth ?

[Ralphlauren0123]

Only the weak minded believe in god.

[FatEGGanimation]

Yep thats true. If people can be happy and content in themselfs they will not have to believe in a god.

[azndude3600]

Explain please.

[duox]

where is there a verse that says the sun orbits the earth?

[pontolones]

rational questions like these, questioning parts of the bible, are futile. as any decently brainwashed zombie will just twist their interpretation of a quote from the bible into anything they need for the occasion.

"a man who lay with another man shall lay in his own blood" ? oh! well you're just READING IT WRONG. no, that actually means that god loves gays and wants them to lay in his love for eternity.

hahaha

[Kevster012]

@pontolones, actually the quote: A man that lay with another man shall lay in his own blood would mean the its wrong and you will die. So really your comment makes no sense.

[HimesInu]

@Kevster012 He was making a point that people, not all but some, twist things for their own purposes.

[zigora3]

@pontolones I'm a Christian and I'm strongly against homosexuals. Marriage is between a man and his wife. Sex before marriage is fornication. Since God is against gay marriage, they can not have sex without it being sin.

It is not my fault to many liberal scumbags exist on this earth, ruining TRUE Christian's names. Okay "scumbags" is a little harsh I admit, but I'm still working on my temper.

[Soupthemighty]

1 Chronicles 16:30

Earthquakes, anyone?

[Shmeurung9]

the catholic church has yet to renounce their belief that the sun orbits the earth.

[Disciple088]

wow, youve really stumped us, havent you tubby? well, i will tell that you are wrong. The bible actually states that the earth rotates around the sun. people in the past took the verses that talk about this too seriously!

God is Love, Live 4 Christ!!!

[Okayplayer420]

God is love? I believe that to be true. But the god you speak of is not love at all. the god of the old testament has absolutely nothing to do with love. He is an immature bully, jealous and proud of it. The god of the old testament is undoubtedly the most unpleasant character in all of FICTION.

[prophetofyomomma]

That's exactly how children view their parents when they are punished.

[hungsolow123]

In one sentence you call him "tubby" and in the next you say "God is Love, Live 4 Christ!!!". You're the poster child for hypocrisy!

[liber8me]

nope. the bible is a contradictory and historically inaccurate text. i dont need a genocidal fucking god 2 know wat is right.

[hoots7]

The earth orbits the sun.

In no way does that mean the Bible is wrong.

How many people in those days would assume that God was talking about the sun in a perspective from space?

That would be very confusing now wouldn't it?

You will quote verses dealing with the sun stopping / rising, & so on, but you're just being silly.

From the observer's perspective on earth it looks this way.

[markgiroux1234]

so how would it have looked if the earth was going around the sun?

[liber8me]

so from the perspective of earth we say that the sun orbits the earth? still dont get it

[prophetofyomomma]

Frame of reference, dude. All of science is based around it.

[only1duk]

I don't think he heard you. Try writing a letter

[carolannej]

wtf???????????????

get a life, find your soul,

your heart orbits your brain and it should be the other way round!

[funnrun]

you orbit stupidity!

[Satantransvertdeath]

What's the point?

[bryanthecomposer]

An even better one is whether or not the earth is flat. Last I checked there were only a hundred 'True' Christians in the Flat Earth Society. (you didn't know that heaven was only 4000 miles upwards?)

From:

An Australian Christian that really can't believe the fuss in America at the moment.

[rebyoshi]

Either answer is scientifically incorrect, and linguistically defencable. They both orbit a point between their centers of mass which is closer to the sun proportional to its difference in mass, adjusted for the gravitational influence of the other planets.

[88Mikemike]

Well obviously the Earth orbits the Sun, the Solar system rotates aroung the galaxy, the galaxy expands outward through the universe, which clearly orbits around your ass! :) Nice video though, and thanks for taking the responsability to pull the slinter from my eye (or whoevers)

[danielukes]

Why's he asking something so obvious?

[xenewarrior]

I dont really care which way around it is - God's sorted it - he got it right which ever way:)

[zitan17]

the earth moves in the straight line around the sun :)

[Promaster777]

Which sun/son?? Sun (burning fire) Son, Jesus Christ.

[matt4magic]

The answare to your underspecified question is: "In relation to what?" The sun: earth orbits sun. The earth: sun orbits earth.

[CBALLEN]

Do the weathermen still say sunrise and sunset?Just wondered.

[celticnooneson]

The SUN comes out of my eyes in the morning when I wake up; goes around my eyeballs for a while, out my nose, under my armpits, down my back and up my butt again to emerge from my eyeballs the next day. The EARTH stays attached to my feet through friction from toejam. Whatdayathink?

[penguinsquishy]

Whoa Ive read something like that in my philosophy book. What is the original quote?

[celticnooneson]

If you really slow it down, you can see that philosophy inscribed on the bottom of every anvil that ever squashed WILE E. COYOTE.

[kwanhui]

Copernicus led the revolution idea that made people to start realizing that it is the Earth which evolved around the sun, but this very person is a Christian who believes in the bible...

[grenangle]

lol

[mrjonnewman]

Oh dear

Psalm 93:1 The LORD reigns, he is robed in majesty; the LORD is robed in majesty and is armed with strength. The world is firmly established; it cannot be moved.

[mrjonnewman]

If the world cannot be moved how can it orbit the sun?

[spankyfry]

The word "moved" is translated from the Hebrew word "mowt": to totter, shake, slip, dislodge, drop, yada yada yada. So it looks like the Earth still orbits the sun.

[CPXB]

*bzzt* The earth is in free fall around the sun. Orbiting *is* falling. If the earth cannot drop, it cannot orbit.

[mrjonnewman]

Ah the old its a ministration argument. Its funny how Christian believe the bible is the unaltered word of god except for those bits they disagree with.

By the way the earth does totter and shake just Google "Chandler wobble" and you will find out that the earth shifts on its axis ever so slightly.

[spankyfry]

Wow, you people just can't accept defeat in anything, can you? Your argument is crap and you know it.

[spankyfry]

You just don't get it. NOT EVERY SINGLE THING IN THE BIBLE IS TO BE TAKEN LITERALLY. If you would read the scripture with an open mind, you would understand.

[socratesone]

Yes, scientifically testable claims like "The world is firmly established; it cannot be moved"  must not be taken litterally. However, things like talking snakes, talking donkeys, talking bushes, the sun standing still, and the miracles of Jesus must all be taken literally. Makes sense to me.

[spankyfry]

Exactly.

MT 19:26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

[CPXB]

Something like 35% of American Christians take everything in the Bible to be literally true.

We atheists think nothing in the Bible is true.

You should be directing your comments to your fellow Christians, spankyfry.

[spankyfry]

Shows how much you know about Christians. Everything that's meant LITERALLY is taken LITERALLY. Everything meant METAPHORICALLY is taken METAPHORICALLY.

[spankyfry]

WE can tell the difference, can you?

[CPXB]

LOL. Yes!  I can certainly tell the difference between fact and fiction! It's why I think the Bible is fantasy! :)

But you're using one of the lamer arguments. It's the "no true Scotsman" fallacy. REAL Christians know the difference between the parts of the Bible that are metaphor and those that are literal. So the 35% of US Xtians that take the Bible literally? Don't count. *rolls eyes*

[spankyfry]

You're so desperate to try to look smart you can't see what's right in front of you. Just because you take the Bible literally does not mean that there are not figures of speech. If someone said "It's raining cats and dogs outside," you would know that they did not really mean that cats and dogs were falling from the sky. They would mean that it is raining really hard. FIGURE OF SPEECH.

[CPXB]

I am smart! :)

But you're still advancing a lame argument. You say it's "obvious" which parts are meant literally. But it's not. The part which is to you obvious metaphor was taken literally by most Christians until quite recently. Most LITERALLY believed the earth can't move. Why should I take it that YOUR interpretation is the "right" one when theirs was wrong?

[spankyfry]

Is that a serious question?

[spankyfry]

Wow, I just realized I never said "obvious". Wow. Not only do you not listen to anything, you actually make up your own stuff.

[CPXB]

No, you didn't say obvious, just said that Christians know (without specifying a mechanism) which parts of the Bible are literal and which ones aren't. I would be curious as to the mechanism that not only describes that, but also in such a fashion that doesn't exclude the literalism of 35% of the Christians out there and the large majority of Christians through time.

[spankyfry]

I'm tired of this same old conversation. Until the end of time there will be the same old atheists using the same old arguments trying to disprove Christianity. Why some people think they have to dedicate so much of their time to it, I don't know. As for me, I have been neglecting my Bible studies and my family having the same old argument with you. In other words, I answered his question, that was plenty for anyone who isn't just here to argue, I have better things to do. Do you?

[CPXB]

Spank, this is what we call "you giving up". ;)

And, nope, since it takes me about 20 seconds to respond to you, it isn't a burden on my day at all.

[jeweledsunshine]

Looks more to me like what we call "he who has the biggest mouth wins"

[CPXB]

Jeweled,

Nonsense. He said that Xtians can tell metaphor from reality in the Bible, and I said that what has been regarded as metaphor has changed over time and asked the mechanism, then, of deciding what is metaphor in the Bible that doesn't disclude Xtians past and present. His response? "Oh, I've got to go study the Bible." *rolls eyes*

[jeweledsunshine]

Why does it matter? It doesn't affect the ultimate goal which is salvation. So why does any of it matter? You people like to come up with these pompous videos trying to discredit the Bible and you don't understand that it doesn't matter to Christians. Sure, it'll get a lot of hallelujahs from your atheist buddies but it really accomplishes nothing but making you look like a pompous ass.

[CPXB]

Even from the Xtian point, whether or not the Bible is being literal in a given place is of VITAL importance. To me, this is obvious. Is Jesus being metaphorical when he says that one can only achieve salvation through him? Obviously, if one is serious about "salvation", what the authors of the Bible meant is of vital importance. I mean, obviously.

[jeweledsunshine]

Yes, one can only achieve salvation by literally going THROUGH Jesus. Must be painful. It must really burn you that people actually believe in Christ, personal responsibility, morals, etc. Otherwise, you wouldn't devote so much time to trying to discredit it. Any one of the questions you ask can be answered by simply doing a google search.

[jeweledsunshine]

As for me, I'm not going to answer any of your inane questions. I have to go to bed. I guess in your head that means you win again. Yay you. *rolls eyes*

[CPXB]

How do I know that Jesus was literal there if we acknowledge that at least SOME of the Bible is both metaphorical and what was taken literally by Xtians of bygone eras but isn't today? I still want to know how Xtians decide what is metaphor and what is literal. I think this is a fair questions.

[overmind25]

Psalms 19:4-6- Their line has gone out through all the earth, And their words to the end of the world, In them He has set a tabernacle for the sun, Which is like a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, And rejoices like a strong man to run its race. Its rising is from one end of heaven, and its circuit to the other end: And there is nothing hidden from its heat.

[overmind25]

Joshua 10:12-13: Joshua makes the sun stand still so it will be light longer so they can fight a battle. How would "making the sun stand still" make a difference?

[darkstar8686]

lol the sun does stand still.

[overmind25]

Actually the sun moves with the galaxy. But that is not even what the verse is about. It is about the sun standing still in the sky so there would be light to fight a battle when in fact it is the earth that is rotating on its axis which makes the Sun appear to be the main moving object. How would making the sun stand still make a difference?

[darkstar8686]

that was the point i was making, i should have explained myself, the sun is still in relation to the earth, that orbits around it. the sun does wobble on its axis due to planetry gravity and yes moves within the galaxy.the passage shows that lack of understanding whenthe bible was wrote

[overmind25]

The story implies that the sun is the one the moves around the earth. Therefore, the sun had to be frozen in the air which can't happen. The rotating earth is what creates night and day, not the sun.

[darkstar8686]

yes thats what i said. we are agreed the bible sucks like tom cruise

[overmind25]

You don't like Tom Cruise?

[darkstar8686]

well if you negate the insane scientology rantings. the visous persequtement of people who make any slur on his sexuality by his lawyers and being a pretty shit actor. then yeah i guess hes ok. plus katie holmes does not look happy with him.

[overmind25]

That's right!! Scientology is nuts.

[sablechicken]

Interesting that if we were just a little bit closer to the sun we would fry or a little farther away we would freeze. The Earth is firmly established in this perfect zone.

[overmind25]

That is a myth. We are closer to the sun in the winter.