Star Wars The Old Republic Timeline 8 The Jedi Civil War

[cg123ize]

i wish they had a entry on the first jedi purge (KOTOR II) as well other than that great timeline

[cityb0ifresh]

Fucking hell.. I was RIGHT the entire time.. I went through some spoiler sections with TOR, and Revan's new novel, and like I said... All they're fucking doing is retconning shit.... *Shakes his fucking head*... They've shitted on KOTOR1 and KOTOR2... The legacy is dead, and it will never be the same again!

[Gamergal218]

watching this timeline trailer made me wish more than anything that Bioware had chosen to make KOTOR 3 and not an MMO. I understand that MMOs can bring in a lot of money for a company, but Bioware is known for their RPGs, KOTOR being one of the best.

[BrownTown45]

@Gamergal218 one of the best?

[Gamergal218]

@BrownTown45 haha good point. let me rephrase: KOTOR being THE best :)

[zeppelinfan27]

"though revans ultimate fate remains mystery . . ."

GOD FUCKING DAMN IT!

[cg123ize]

@zeppelinfan27 dont worry there is a book coming out

[Naytas]

@zeppelinfan27 Just the Revanite theory that Revan faced the Sith Emperor in Single combat, won, and took on his identity to lead the Empire against the Republic ;o

[cityb0ifresh]

Anyway, we're both getting way ahead of ourselves. All in all ; neither of us can give our ultimate decision until the game comes out.

[cityb0ifresh]

Kreia knew treachery, because she was betrayed in her heart, and she orchestrated betrayals in others. As I said, she tells you everything she did at the very end, abd her own revelations about Revan were genuine. KOTOR2 gave Revan the ultimate characterization that would beak the mold and been something completely different and unique. In my opinion. I would gladly accept a self-sacrificing mastermind with strategems equal to Thrawn ; over ANOTHER generic pawn who develops dreams of grandeur..

[cityb0ifresh]

And speaking of Kreia, why does EVERYONE always so quick to question or throw her credibility in the air? All I hear is "she's a liar liar who lies and tells lies in the end"... Everything she said about Revan, the game backed-up, and HK-47 and Mandalore and Atton and Mical, hell, even Carth's debriefing mirrors what she say. Not only that, but she tells you EVERYTHING she orchestrated at the heart of Malachor V. Saying she lies about everything is completely illogical from a writing standpoint

[cityb0ifresh]

And of course this goes without saying that my biggest beef of them all, is Revan's characterization. KOTOR2 went through great expense to set him up as the tragic hero without alienating his own vague background that Bioware setup and left off. Instead of the typical seduction and temptation. he sacrificed himself to the darkside. he was pretty much corrupted with a malevolent influence by his own perceptual foreshadow. Kreia influenced him to leave The Order because of that same foreshadow

[cityb0ifresh]

The True Sith were gonna enter republic space "already" victorious without a single shot ever being fired. Their planned achievement was to manipulate key events so the Republic would destroy themselves from the outside. In the end, The True Sith will be good for what they are, but they are FAR from intruiging and unique as previously preceived as unknown entities..

I mean come on now, they even have the fucking "Dark Council", tell me that isn't cliche??

[cityb0ifresh]

Do you have a link saying Trayus Academy is based on the Sith Emperor's teachings? Sorry, but Naga Sadow isn't the Sith Emperor in this game. They're his survivors of his own creed. And if the Sith Emperor WAS truly there, and once again, it fucking defeats the purpose of the True Sith's role of deception! Revan and Malak never met the Sith Emperor, ESPECIALLY Malak. This would've been made relevant long ago, especially during their last encounter.

[LordRyus]

@cityb0ifresh

Relax... there are lots of little mistakes in these reports, especially the two involving Revan. They even call Bastila a Jedi Master at the time of Revan's redemption, and not the very young Jedi Knight that she was. It's clear either not all records where recovered/recorded or things where covered up, likely there is some conjecture in these reports to.

I expect it's so we'll get tons of "reveals" through out SWTOR... this will have greater impact for people new to the series.

[cityb0ifresh]

@LordRyus Actually, that's a bit accurate. Bastila was one of the Jedi who rebuilded The Order after The First Jedi Purge, along with Visas, Brianna, Mical, etc in the aftermath of KOTOR2... Im sure Gnost Dural is clearly referring to her title from his current time period since those feats on her part had already been achieved.

[BrownTown45]

@cityb0ifresh That is what I figured, Kinda how someone might refer to Abraham Lincoln as president if they are talking about his life before presidency.

[cityb0ifresh]

Gnost Dural has stated his position as objective fact. BioWare wont delete the whole entry as misinformed, defeating much of the purpose of making the timeline. I know they said his debriefing isn't historically accurate, but this doesn't apply to HIS revelations. Minor things like The Star Forge being built 25 centuries ago, or Bastila being with Revan during the fight with Malak.

[tomkasto]

I'll bet Revan is gonna be a boss in the MMO.

[CommonSense8102]

All I'm saying is any fears of major retcons to KotOR 2's story are UNWARRANTED. Trust me on this.

[CommonSense8102]

They're not going to be subtle during a war where their goal is to overwhelm the Republic and destroy everything in their path. Their manipulations and subtlety was the centuries before the war began. All to prepare for the war.

[CommonSense8102]

"As soon as The True Sith revealed themselves, they were as subtle as the Incredible Hulk"

Huh, have you watched the other timelines? The Emperor and his Empire were manipulating events as far back as the Mandalorian Wars. The Mando's, Revan's Empire (until he decided to take the galaxy for himself and fight the Emperor's Empire), and Nihilus, all manipulations of the Emperor, all sent to prepare the Galaxy for his plans.

They had infiltrated the Republic/Jedi for centuries.

[CommonSense8102]

Anything Kreia says is also suspect...you know, considering she manipulates you the entire game and hadn't seen Revan in years.

Kreia also states "Revan met no Sith Empire", although he clearly did. Most of what she said was just her opinion.

It all still stands though. The Exile is the reason the Republic is as strong as it is in TOR, and why the Jedi Order was rebuilt. She is the one that gave the order to activate the MAss Shadow Generator, the one to stop the teachings of the Emperor.

[CommonSense8102]

Fact is, if you cared to learn more about the story and how KotOR plays a MAJOR ROLE, you can find all this. You simply want to believe something that is not true.

KotOR 2 has had an incredible tie-in to TOR that I think most will be very, very happy about. The Exile is still canon, everything she did is still canon. KotOR has not been pushed aside in the slightest. Malachor V and the Emperor share a major connection. You think Darth Nihilus was a threat? The Emperor isn't a slave to his hunger

[CommonSense8102]

EVERYTHING that happened in KotOR 2 is STILL CANON. Just accept this, because if you claim otherwise you're plain wrong.

Revan had found at least one star Map before confronting the Emperor. Once he met the Emperor, he was given the task of hunting down the rest in the name of the Emperor. You have to wait for TOR to understand why this occured.

They ARE radically different from the kotor sith...lol. they are desendants from the first Dark Lord, REAL SITH. That is why theyre so dangerous.

[CommonSense8102]

@cityb0ifresh - Ok, let me try to explain this to you. Bioware THEMSELVES have stated Gnost Dural's account is not HISTORICALL ACCURATE. It come sfrom an IU perspective. That was from Bioware, so you're wrong there.

Second, the Emperor was the head of the academy on malachor back during the GHW. The teaching sat malachor? Yeah, those are his teachings. That is why Revan knew where to find the Emperor. The teachings there were a major threat, they existed only to destroy all life.

[cityb0ifresh]

@CommonSense8102 - I think you've been misunderstanding me the whole time. I Know KOTOR2 is still canon. I never said the entire events are being weeded out of existence. That isn't my beef. However, my beef is the whole "behind the scenes" garbage. Also anything that doesn't suit or mesh with their lore (ie Revan's motivations) is being quietly swept under the rug.

[LordRyus]

Here we likely have the Jedi Order recovering from The Jedi Civil War needing to sweep under the rug many facts to help heal the galaxy. Plus Revan had left, giving them no powerful figure head so Bastila was likely thrust upon that seat. Even though she went Sith herself, for a time, and had at least one child (likely with Revan). The reports here are just likely using those edited versions of history without anyone knowing otherwise.

I see no evidence of Bioware changing anything... yet.

[CommonSense8102]

@cityb0ifresh You can't retcon events that were previously UNKNOWN. Lol...

You want to provide an actual example of what they're retconning so I can then proceed to prove you wrong once more?

you realize the Exile is in TOR right? And she plays a major role in the new Revan novel that is coming out? What they've said is that her story isn't as known as Revan's story, because what SHE DID was behind the scenes...she still did all that and it had a major effect on the Galaxy and TOR...lol

[cityb0ifresh]

@CommonSense8102 The First Jedi Purge is unknown yet an under-the-radar mission to find the Star Maps led by a Jedi who lost his identity, and was perceived as dead galaxy-wide is "more" historical? It's behind the scenes because it ISN'T their game obviously! And I can point out many things that are retconned...

1). Revan activating the Mass Shadow Generator. The republic forces led by him didn't arrive on time.

2). Revan and Malak meeting the Sith Emperor. KOTOR2 blatantly tells..*continued*

[cityb0ifresh]

@CommonSense8102 2). Revan and Malak meeting the Sith Emperor. KOTOR2 blatantly tells you that he used Trayus Academy, which was a gate way to the True Sith. Now he only knows of them by their encounter with the Sith Emperor

3). Falling to the darkside because of the Emperor's presence? Lol yeah alright. Nevermind the fact that Kreia was the one who influenced him to sacrifice himself since she holds the knowledge of treachery.

4). Malak even says it himself that Revan was the... *continued*

[cityb0ifresh]

@CommonSense8102 4). Malak even says it himself that Revan was the one who led them on their path to find the Star Forge. This Timeline video CLEARLY says otherwise, and before you say "Well it's by a Jedi historian he wasn't there etc etc".. This information is a revelation. They're not gonna just change it for no reason.

5). The True Sith themselves are being altered. They are nowhere near as deceiving as how Kreia and Mandalore announced them when they were unknown entities. Their... *cont*

[cityb0ifresh]

@CommonSense8102 Their art of deception has drastically changed. Their inadequatly forcing KOTOR2's creation into a role that was created for something else. Obsidience's version was to be far more insidious and manipulative. Kreia and Canderous implies that they are radically different from the Sith in the KOTOR game. As soon as The True Sith revealed themselves, they were as subtle as the Incredible Hulk!.. I even have a link about the True Sith's original role if you want...

[narutosbeast]

the real problem is that they didn't even have to change anything to add bits and peaces into the storyline.

[narutosbeast]

i miss the real kotor timeline.

[CommonSense8102]

@cityb0ifresh - You are the confused one. None of that has been retconned. In fact, without giving away major plot spoilers, Malachor V and the teachings there have a large role to play with the Emperor. Malachor V is still very important. Revan fell to the Dark Side and was finding the Star Maps before he met the Sith Emperor.

[cityb0ifresh]

@CommonSense8102 I'm sorry but you're wrong. They are retconning. It's being swept under the rug as "Behind the scenes" and things that don't mesh with their plot are being weeded out. RobChestney even said that they aren't mentioning it because it'll be too confusing with their own TOR lore. Even though it's from a Jedi historian and which facts may not be accurate, these are "revelations". Bioware isn't gonna change them just because certain fans don't like it. Like I said, it's all retcons.

[cityb0ifresh]

Oh, and Now Revan was spoon fed information about the Star Forge? Wowww. There goes his originality!.. And it was fucking Kreia that influenced Revan to leave the Order, I mean fucking hell, He went back to Trayus Academy to discover the ripe in the force to find the True Sith.. HER AND MASTER KAVAR SAID IT THEMSELVES!!!... And even Darth Sion said Trayus Academy was the gateway that leads to the True Sith... FUCK YOU BIOWARE FOR RETCONING SHIT YOU FUCKING FAGGOTS.

[wraithofthedark]

god Revan looks badass

[ooOMikevOoo]

damn this timeline stuff is good i think O_o

[r0ninKai]

KOTOR in 4 minutes. lol

[superaj22]

The story of Revan is that he acted to fall to the dark side and make a war so that he could prepare the republic from the real threat, the sith empire. after the war and sucesfully defeating dark malak, Revan went in search of the sith empire. The only mystery now is what happened to him.

[spartan8247]

i know its just art but isnt Malak suppose to be a hell of a lot taller than Revan? -_-

[mesmerino]

Bastila was a Jedi master? I don't even think she was a knight yet.

[racionador]

the old republic IS kotor 3

[SaintsRow1224]

What they need to do is, not make a stupid MMO, but make KOTOR 3, and end all the opinions, and other things and make it for the Xbox 360, or the Xbox 720, w.e they decide to name their next gen console.

[KieranCliffton]

Do you have to play online in these sort of games?

[icemancotour]

GENERAL SHEPARD IS THE NARRATOR

[MarkfromInfectous]

@icemancotour .... YOURE RIGHT!! 0.0

[leknubb]

@icemancotour That would be Admiral Hacket

[iwillfollow24]

WHERES THE EXILEE

[KKSyntheKhamp]

The greatest mystery of KOTOR is that how did T3 and HK stay on the Ebon Hawk when Revan, Bastila, and some other people disappeared? I just want to know that. And what ever happened to Revan after that? They should've kept him as a main character instead if those random people . This is just my oppinion.

[LiLMontizzle]

have you beat KOTOR?

[AnguishSuffering]

This game is going to be complete shit fuck you bioware

[MrDaniel7734]

@AnguishSuffering Thank you I agreed

[TheLordofGamers]

Revan only fell to the dark side and created an empire to fight the true sith. Why else would he leave the key planets alone and not just destroy them outright? At least that's what Kreia siad. He saw the threat that the Sith Emperor and the True Sith posed and so he tried to unify the splintered Republic. He fell to the Dark Side in order to save the Galaxy.

[lloyger]

After all my Starwars lore delving games, books, wookiepedia, etc. It seems that this era has the most contradictions and plot holes in the timeline of all that is Starwars, this has been going since Kotor1, thank lucas for trying to set something straight.

[michaelgohjs]

we need a movie about Revan after he went into the unknown region..at least an official story

[vstxp]

I think that revan's story will play a role in order to destroy the sith emperor.I can't wait to see the true story of revan!

[DeviantKing]

As much as I despise the idea of Revan being made some mysterious guys bitch I do remember Kotor 2 saying that Revan remembered something terrible happening and that caused him to go off into unknown space, most likely this was it.

[bedhead050]

This is inspiring stuff

[spacexploder]

erased his memory? pretty lame.

[TheChaosGear]

ive always thought revan and malik trun sith on there own.

[TimNYI]

you're all stupid

this is done from the perspective of whoever made it in the star wars universe

no one besides your party and select few others knew about revan's true turn to the darkside and all the other things

the only thing you have is the way he holds his lightsaber which isn't a big deal

[Kershbob]

"Time to retcon one of our best characters! I hope people don't mind."

[goldman77700]

@Kershbob Revan is taller than Malak.

[OrdoMallius]

Does lore mean nothing to Bioware? This is stupid.

Fucking hell. Why is Revan taller than Malak?And what is this "their new dark master"? Wasn't the whole point of the KOTOR2 to tell us that Revan actually never fell?That he did it so he could actually save the fucking Republic??

this is bullshit you money hungry bitches why did you have to make it a MMO fucking bitches you should have just made a RPG now your MMO will fail live every other

[Bl4d3gunn3r]

@OrdoMallius

bioware didnt make kotor2...

[OrdoMallius]

@Bl4d3gunn3r

I know Obsidian did it.But it continues on the story.It's a sequel.Are they completely ignoring Kotor2 then? IF so they should say it.

[bradpittftw1111]

@OrdoMallius Money also made your beloved Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic.

Bioware is a very reputable company, I think they can pull this out. Blizzard experienced much criticism when taking Warcraft lore into the MMO world, and they were extremely successful.

[vstxp]

@OrdoMallius If you payed attention in kotor 2 you should have heard in the profecies of kreia that he went to the true sith empire,it's where he brought the sith teachings from, and malachor was a part of this empireAnd then he went there in order to destroy it.That he actually sought to destroy all,the sith,the jedi,and in the revan reveal trailer it was said:"before his rebirth(as a jedi by bastila)he was both sith and jedi".The story will become clear after we play TOR.

[OrdoMallius]

@vstxp

no no she said to find the true sith no mention of empire.

But then again kotor2 was butchered by publishers in order to release on time we will never know what Obsidian intended the true end to be.

[vstxp]

@OrdoMallius She mentioned it!She said in some point:"You are wrong.The Sith is a belief!And it's empire,the true sith empire,rules elseware."And she also said:"Corriban,like malachor,brushes the edges of the empire that waits in the dark!And like malachor the sith have forgotten it... for a time!They will remember.Revan new this!And Revan knew the true war was beyond the outer rim,and he has gone to fight!" Revan had gone to the true sith empire to figh, and the exile then followed.

[cityb0ifresh]

@OrdoMallius .. Dude, You are SO fucking right. Fuck these Bioware fangirl bitches. They are ruining KOTOR with this shit... I mean fucking hell, Revan did fall to the darkside, but his fall was a sacrafice, and not by seduction or temptation. Revan knew the personal consenquences, and still did it anyway. IT WAS A FUCKING SACRAFICE... Now these Bioware bitches ruined his fucking character saying he met the emperor and his presence made him fall.. WHAT THE FUCK??

[PurusSapientia]

There are so many things in this video that contradict KotOR. Revan was never depicted in KotOR as wielding his lightsaber in a back-handed grip, nor was he taller than Malak, and since when is Bastila a jedi master? She was just a knight during the events of KotOR.

[pointpurple]

UTTER

fucking bullshit.

They met x, they met y.

Fuck you Bioware, you're ruining Star Wars just as much as Lucas is.

Fuck you.

[MrPeterKazmierczak]

Revan is taller than Malak? Wtf?

[TyphorT38]

this game died in my eyes when they declared Revan a puppet... TOR is officially non-canon from now on.

[JackTheCarver]

Revan does not hold his lightsaber gangster-style!!!

[MajorCinnamonBun1]

This doesn't make any sense. In KotOR 2 several characters tell you that Revan knew there was a threat out in the Unknown Regions, so he was trying to conquer the Republic to make it stronger against the eventual attack. Now the writers on TOR are just going to ignore that and insert their own history? Alright whatever, I just wish that Mr. Daniel Erickson would stop stomping all over KotOR and just leave it alone. Its 300 years later there's no point to try and make your damn MMO fit KotOR.

[MrElegos]

@MajorCinnamonBun Maybe this is just how it would appear to the characters in universe. I mean, we know why it is the way it is, but without that knowledge, this is a pretty logical conclusion.

[Getalifeyouhobo]

@MajorCinnamonBun1 They actually aren't stomping on the story at all. They're the same writers that wrote Kotor. James Ohlen, or whatever was involved with Kotor. Basically, this Unknown Threat was the Empire. Sure Revan might have come back with intent to take the Republic for himself to make it stronger, but he was sent by the Emperor to do his bidding. If you went on the SWTOR website, you would probably know this by now.

[MajorCinnamonBun1]

@Getalifeyouhobo So that's one person who was involved with KotOR (which makes sense, because the first one was made by Bioware too). Secondly, I'm not talking about it stomping on the original KotOR's story necessarily, but more so the second one. If you played KotOR 2, you would know that this little "timeline" acts almost like the second game, and what Kreia tells you in game, doesn't happen at all. Its just bad writing trying to force-fit this backstory into something thats already there.

[28SomethingSomething]

wasn´t Revan becoming again the great dark lord of the sith the real ending of Kotor 1?

[AnthraxMosher]

i hate how they trashed knights of the old republic 1 & 2 for This MMO

[madchronz77]

its fucking yoda

[TheLostCavalier]

They should have just made kotor 3, the great story is wasted on an MMO...

[cannonbulk]

@TheLostCavalier I totally agree, but it's going to be really cool to see what they do with it.

[hibari133]

@TheLostCavalier u find out that revan knew full well what the plan of the empereor was and he had the plan to take control of the republic becasue he thought that the republic was not strong enough to stand against the might of the threat of the true sith empire and that was going to come so he decided that he had to take control of the galaxy in order to protect it, when malak betrayed him it mess up his plans so decided that he would try to stop them by himself so he went beyond the outer rim

[reyeko]

@hibari133 o rly? sure you're not just making shit up?

[Getalifeyouhobo]

@reyeko Yeah. He's pretty fucking dead on.

[hibari133]

@reyeko yep im sure thats the cannon story. so if your trying to troll ill get some trollbegoon on your ass. if not yeah im pretty sure

[Abysia]

@TheLostCavalier

Exactly

[Bernstein1917]

@TheLostCavalier No kidding, MMOs can be fun and all, but they get really old, really fast, especially once 100,000 thirteen year olds log on

[M3RUL3Z]

@TheLostCavalier MMO's create hours more worth of entertainment, really only a select few are in the extremely high lvls in WOW, and represent their clans, just like jedi represent the republic.. not that i play wow.. this is general knowledge, i cant wait for SWTOR personally.... your entitled to your own opinion, just saying your view isnt that popular... :p

[BrownTown45]

@TheLostCavalier they should do both...

[Zebeldarebel]

so can you meet this emperor dude?

[TheUnlimitedOne]

now I feel like playing KOTOR :-(

[LtVictor1]

Lol General shepard is in his game :p

[usmanater]

is there a 9th one

[miggieless]

whos the emperor

[Arnest123]

@miggieless i think his name is emperor Kornus or Darth Kornus

[cranky626]

@Arnest123 emperor who gives a fuck

[Arnest123]

@cranky626 you know what. JUST FUCK OF MF

[Lieu3C4]

So sequences of co-operative subordinations, like unto 2 dimensional maps of DNA helices, go to ward the Republic that Empire may be born and Revolting begun? Aweighting, away ting, with baited breathing.~Hopefully this game of yours(ours?) will not be as susceptible to, especially moderator driven, corruption as WoW has so proven to be. :)

[JIPPIX94]

If they made a movie where Revan returned from space allied with the mandaloriens to wage war on the new republic it would be amazazing

[smoers06]

@JIPPIX94 I don't think so, Reven tried to rebuild the mandalorians to protect the republic. What would be awsome, is if they have Reven found on Iego during the next Sith Era, and he helps the Skywalker decendant

[JIPPIX94]

@smoers06 not in the ending i chose i destroyed the republic lol. although lego kotor would be beyond awesome