Shocking

[arenaskiez]

Wow, drug companies do this all the time. They manufacture something worth a few dollars and end up reselling it for hundreds. It's everywhere.

[Danbo342]

I have sold items on Ebay years ago that were double what everyone else was selling the same for at that time. It was worth it and I simply wasn't going to take that big a loss to compete. This issue here though is totally different than the idiots argument about it being a free market. In a typical market you know how much something is and compare. In a hospital you have no idea what the price is until after the sale.

[Danbo342]

I think this is disgusting abuse of power 1st and foremost. I have dealt with this for too many years and as you get as old as me you'll see just how bad it gets with medications and insurance costs. But I want to make an people aware of why this is. Peoples rights to sue is the bottom line. Malpractice suits. Some great books out there for you readers. Years ago I came close to moving to France just over health care but that is one (Huge) negative from hundreds of great things I stay here for.

[chukchee]

America is going to hell.

[crazyknight2008]

and now america is trillions in debt lol

[dlovefromupabove]

While it may seem that free market capitalism and egregious mark-ups would encourage competition (and it probably does)- in many states a Certificate of Need must be granted by the state. Often times the only hospital in town (or REGION) will just add rooms and say there is no need for another area hospital b/c the only hospital in the region has enough rooms to accommodate patients.

So it is not a true free market. More like a MONOPOLY.

[HuntersCreed]

I'm just Average Joe America, but I find it offensive that they would charge such an inflated price for an item that cost so little. Granted I'm not medically educated, but I do have common sense.

[haygoodb]

Why doesn't he just explain that many patients won't pay and the vast majority of the rest will have the price determined for them by their insurance, so long as the hospital isn't charging less than they pay. As a result, the hospital makes sure they charge enough that no insurance company is willing to pay more, so the hospital doesn't miss out. If you are paying your bill yourself, then you generally get the short end of the stick, to say the least, so negotiate.

[haygoodb]

@haygoodb ...oh, and yeah, all that notwithstanding, the prices are pretty steep.

[Moldova]

To save my ass, I would have have responded by asking him if he could identify a pile of hay. When he said yes, I would ask him how many pieces of hay it takes to make a pile. Where is his line? My point is, this is unfair, but because the guy is guilty, he doesn't really know what to say. No skin off my nose.

[iexusuxei]

Is the typical market mark-up simply ... multiply by 3 and add it on? I thought that normally covered all your costs :P

[theway334]

now let me ask you this...how much wood, could a wood chuck chuck if.... a wood chuck...could chuck.....wood

[MathGirlGoggle]

@theway334 freakin funny...like a response in a Saturday Night Live sketch. lol

[jhouse0970]

this attorney is bullying this guy and I would like to see what that mother fuckers charges his clients for shit! Damn like an attorney has any room to judge someone on how much money they make. What a fucking load of crap! Self righteous piece of shit! I would agree that hospitals screw people but I would also agree that so do lawyers!

[clargdorp]

When people talk out their assholes, it generally starts a stink.

[pagpag05]

This is a classic example where a deponent who is seemingly smart looks like he's got "shit for brains" for trying to play tit-for-tat with the lawyer asking the questions. Just answer the questions truthfully you weasel.

[antimarxism]

People in countries with socialized medicine, such as the NHS in the U.K. are NEVER shocked by the price of service

You know why? They don't know the actual price. It comes indirectly from taxes. These taxes come from the taxpayers (the few who actually work in the U.K.)

Yes, the cost of an aspirin is a little under a $1000 due to the massive bureaucracy and inefficency of gov to get it to the NHS hospitals.

That is why countries like Canada are moving back to non-gov health care.

[kenfo0]

This guy's lawyer is pathetic. A deposition is not the place for the deposer to make speechs. Also, he keeps asking the same question after getting a response.

[kenfo0]

what this lawyer could be paid would be shocking.

[irishgeal1]

scum

[CyberNeticRodent]

yet despite the fact that this kind of rip off happens within the U.S medical system... your country is still up in arms about having health care reforms and your own NHS. because apparently its communist and NAZI, despite the fact that most of the planet has one and is neither.

[dlwke2]

Too bad 40% of Britons who need surgery go abroad to avoid the lines in that lovely government-run health care system.

[kenfo0]

"Our country" is not up in arms about healthcare reform. Obama, Congress and the media are. I have never met anyone, before this nonsense and without prodding, who said "we need the govt to take over healthcare".  Never. The fact that other countries believe the world is flat does not mean the US should make policy based on it. High cost is EASILY fixed w/o single-payer (govt run) healthcare, if that is the issue.

[Face2nutts]

When I seen the price for the stiches in my face, for four stiches, more than 2000 dollars! Bandages cost a few hundred dollars...and some more outrageous charges for things that are cheap as shit. They do it because they have you by the balls.

[nochu2]

I remember getting an itemized list of everything from a surgery that was used on me....I was charged 12 bucks for a single blade disposable razor I was charged for 2, and they shaved a 2 inch strip, also charged 15 bucks for shaving cream. There was other charges for stuff that was OUTTA THIS WORLD. I called the hospital and asked for the other razor and the rest of the shaving cream. They didnt have it, I threatened to sue them over my shaving cream and they lowered my surgery price by half

[SYNDICADO]

That is unbelivable!  These hospitals AND some of these doctors are full of shit!

[VivekRajcoomar]

while i understand where ur coming from, remember that they may not be using ordinary razor blades and shaving cream. it might be worth checking up on.

[NidisListenstoShit]

I have a great recommendation for you. It'll make your life much easier: stop being such a twat.

[nochu2]

I gotta better one for you, let everyone know when you stop being a douche nozzle.

[NidisListenstoShit]

That's hilarious. Seriously.

[nochu2]

I aim to please! Fuckwad!

[NidisListenstoShit]

Are you angry?

[nochu2]

Yes my father never told me he loved and my mom never hugged me, my uncle tried to touch me and my sister married our stepdad!

[eastofakron]

your an asshole.

[nochu2]

yes i am

[tradersfunding]

KILL THIS CRACKER!!!!

[5504berry]

This is not about capitalism it is about greed and taking advantage of people. During medical emergencies people lack a choice most of the time, so this SOB should re-evaluate his morals.

[dannidandannikins]

If the patients are willing to pay it then the price is reasonable. Of course if the hospital makes a policy of charging very high mark ups then there is room for another hospital to provide the service. The questioner seems to be attempting to assert that the person selling a product has to answer to someone other than his customer... that is shocking.

[rhazlewood07]

Your post is naive. The economic principles underlying your argument do not apply to the purchase of trauma services. The ambulance service - not the consumer - usually determines where the transaction will occur. Often, the consumer is not even conscious when the goods and services are delivered. Even if he or she is conscious, no price terms are disclosed; and the consumer is in no position to negotiate. Furthermore, there is no real opportunity to shop around.

[dannidandannikins]

None of what you've said is relevant. If there were a proper free market on health care and emergency services then there is no reason why competition between service providers wouldn't reduce prices and improve services.

[LOLDISNEYLAND]

@rhazlewood07 Abso-fucking-lutely!! I was charged for a paramedic service and I argued that they didn't offer a price for the service before they rendered it. They summoned me to a trade tribunal after I refused to pay. After we both presented our cases the tribunal arbitrators shrugged their shoulders and looked at the paramedic service and said that they could not do anything for them. They ruled in my favour and the bill was torn up. lol

[Alfrunk]

You can't possibly be that stupid and still be able to use a computer. It's a hospital, not a restaurant. Many of the people there do not have a choice due to transportation, insurance, availability, etc (come on, you can think that much, right?). They are captive, so to speak and that's why it's wrong. "People' like you are why people hate america and capitalism, and you should be reviled for it. Sicko.

[dannidandannikins]

Since your comments amount to nothing more than personal abuse you don't deserve any response at all.

The fact is that capitalism is the only way to achieve a) the recognition of people's fundamental human rights and b) the efficient allocation of economic resources. You don't understand that and since you are just a rude shit I'm not going to bother trying to explain it to you. I'd say 'have a nice life' but with your philosophy it is not possible for that to happen so... just fuck off.

[Alfrunk]

Oh yeah I can tell you're right! $100 for a bandaid! Go capitalism!! Real efficient allocation of human resources. We have 100 different brands of everything, a society putting billions into their sports obsession while others can't pay for education or basic needs. Great!! And good job not addressing any of my points you weak minded crybaby. I'll just go to the local hospital and tell all those dumb people there to shop around and stop complaining! You can get dialysis anywhere for cheap! Sick.

[sicandbored]

bullshit

wtf? the person "selling the product" is a health care provider - subject to MUCH MUCH more than just a 'customer' - which a 'patient' is NOT

[rickdizzle999]

the fee schedule, DRG, pharmacy cost, transportation cost, allergy verification, storage, consult, pill/vial holder, contract, fiscal policy, state policy...this is standard of practice...the bill cold have easily have been settled for a lesser amount.

[dmelkumo]

@dannidandannikins

What the fuck are you talking about ??? who shops for hospitals?

[HayabusaSenToTai]

Don't know why this guy keeps answering...He should just say he's not into wild speculation, and keep referring the questions to the same answer he gave earlier...

[MikeofWyoming]

I was almost as shocked when Obama whined about getting a trillion dollar deficit from the previous administration and then spending almost a trillion more in his first month. It's all a scam.

[omeca]

true that!

[davidadaiz]

Quick... Sign Him up for the Economic Recovery Team!

[GetMeThere1]

The thing is, that the main reason they charge like that is because so many people don't pay their bills.

IOW: The people who actually try to PAY THEIR BILLS end up getting royally fucked--just for being good customers!

[MikeofWyoming]

(GetMeThere1) you absolutely NAILED IT!!

Remember that next time your in the ER waiting room bombarded by spanish jiberish.

[Cuthburt1232007]

SHOCKING!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ironguru777]

heres one...if a person has bestselling information that is very rare...how much money is it worth? It sometimes doesn't matter how much a few pages cost...what is someone willing to pay for the product?

[jacksge]

Thank you! You understand economics, and market forces. When any entity tries to regulate a business' profit margins, this is counter to the capitalistic system. A product or service is worth whatever a ready, willing and able buyer will pay for it, regardless of manufacturing/production costs.

[ironguru777]

"Atlas Shrugged" should be required reading for every high school & college student. Whenever Govt acts as god-and decides who is permitted to charge for a Product/Service... America reaps havoc. Patience in our market will help it become Free again! Producers constantly improve and/or discount Products/Service--we ultimately reap the benefits...the Producers justly reap the profits. Govt intervention is often hurtful. Govt doesnt know how to produce-it mostly destroys individual freedom.

[Gangly1]

That is a nice bit of long-term economic philosophy. In the short term, the greedy, unregulated US bankers have walked away with billions of pounds (never mind dollars) of the consumers own money...without redress. We need an economic model that serves us all, whilst on this planet. Not one that swings and sways to create global boom and bust. No amount of boom will ever create the wealth in the consumers that it does for the producers.

Get real. Or perhaps you are "All right Jack".

[seanmg]

Capitalism has to have boundaries as when we apply the "x commodity is worth as much as one is willing to pay for it" rule to medical care we set those in need up to be extorted and held for ransom. How much are you willing to pay to save your life? Will you pay me $1,000,000 to plug in your respirator? How much will you pay me not to unplug it?

[IncorruptibleTruth]

He should have asked him if he made 8,216.50% return on his money in one day would that shock him.

[denovo09]

Ok, this guy's line of questioning is just stupid. The deposing lawyer is an idiot.

[Jordean1]

True, he is wasting time arguing with the witness. Just get facts. Argue the "line" in court. What is shocking is plaintiff's attorney billing for this performance.

[jpg832]

jeez this guy sucks at debating, I could of destroyed the guy asking questions.

[sgnewman2000]

yeah, except this is not a debate, it's a deposition. The interviewee isn't allowed to ask questions, make rejoinders or introduce counter-examples.

[champguy112]

yea seriously. how much does it cost the lawyer to defend him? 3-4 dollars in gas money to drive to court? how much is he charging his client? 3-4 thousand? who gives a shit how much profit he made.

[CherokeeApacheIrish]

So, like if the bakery baked you a cake and the material costs to bake it were say $2.00 it would be ok with YOU to charge you what ever i want like say 1,500.00 dollars or a mechanic charged you $300.00 bucks to change your oil and new filter? The again I suspect you like getting fucked over?

[champguy112]

i dont like getting fucked over. and if that happened to me i just wouldnt buy it. id take my business else where. capitalism can sometimes be a bitch.

[champguy112]

ah damn one more thing sorry. i cant believe i forgot to say this. and yes it would be okay with me for them to charge whatever they wanted.

[sstormy147]

Thank GOD someone injected some logic into this comment stream! I agree wholeheartedly. Capitalism rocks.

[RustyHeels06]

I understand your point but your example is inherently flawed. It costs a lot of money to defend a civil suit. The time, research, preparation, costs of filing, production of documents, postage, payroll for everyone involved in the case, hiring experts, not to mention the cost of a JD. You don't just walk into court to defend someone in a multi-million dollar lawsuit.

[One5thOfWhiskey]

Is he billing 3 or 4 thousand dollars for the gas he bought, or for the services rendered? Try and keep your eye on the ball.

[stinkpotbaby]

Can someone post this shit-bag's family address?

A total waste of human life, in one persons opinion.

[mowriter]

what world does this lawyer live in? That's called MARKUP!

[CherokeeApacheIrish]

Dumb ass! markup is 2 & 1/2 times the value of the item! You must enjoy the world of being fucked over! So much so you like getting fucked over when you don't mind the govt paying $800.00 for a plastic toilet seat!

No wonder America is in debt to its noses and falling apart financially!

[mowriter]

evidently 2.5 times the value ISN'T the established, standard markup! Seems like he can charge anything he wants for the item, and if the patients insurance will pay it, whioop de doo. I realize this doesn't exactly apply, but in any other industry with free market choice, you can choose not to go with the higher priced item. But this is not that scenario, and nailing people like this DOES seem predatory...I just doubt any court of law would call it flat out illegal.

[stankrom]

objection to form.

[cornjuicy]

Objection calls for speculation

[ByFife76]

I kind of feel bad for lawyers. All those years in school, and they end up as glorified used car salesmen. Fast talking sh*theads just looking to make a buck.

[mowriter]

damn...apparently IG'NUNCE is EXPENSIVE.

[seneca67]

and this is why we need to switch to a non profit system for medical care. It is time to open the books, and end the price gouging

[stevo0665]

This is "shocking" but if you just think about the revenue/costs of a hospital, especially with no turn away policy, it isn't so shocking. When people need treatment and don't have insurance...that's a loss. Of course hospitals are fleecing those who can afford care. Duh. But I would imagine, especially in an urban setting, that a big percentage of their charges are unrecoverable.

[vonendorphin]

It is free market capitalism. They can sell an item for as much as they like. If they sell for too much, people simply will not purchase there.

Any type of "profit control" would be socialism.

[rhazlewood07]

They do not disclose the price. A trauma victim patient has neither the information nor the time to make rational purchasing decisions based upon price.

[CherokeeApacheIrish]

You must be that dumb? I guess so! America's new motto should be LAND OF THE SHAMEFUL AND HOME BLOOD SUCKING VAMPIRES! Then again thats why America's financial system is in the wreck its in because of this very thing of seeing how much one can FUCK OVER the next guy!

[eastofakron]

your a fool who talks out of his ass.

[aflacduky]

they got to pay thoses over rated doctors so they can have ther 3 mill houses and hookers LOL "hang this dude"

[Teknics]

as a business student I was thiinking the whole time, with all this legal questioning to the tee bullshit, he did it PERFECTLY do say the markup to $20, including ALL overhead and superfilious cost etc. That's not part of our mission, that's not putting the patient first, that's not in our community, and fuck the guy can't just come out and admit some wrongdoing here? Maybe blast his own company on it and refund patients and include a donation to a Charity on their behalf? What a DOUCHEBAG

[aflacduky]

agreed i got charged 62$ for 2 pills. you no what there were? "tylenol"  LOL

[ByFife76]

Maybe next time you should buy a bottle at the store and heal yourself. Save yourself about $50.

[Resolute612]

For true incompetence, there's nothing better than the American health care system. Don't blame me, I voted for Kerry!

[ByFife76]

You mean the war hero?

[nickmattedwards]

I am forever grateful for the English NHS system, where all you pay per item, whatever the item, is £7 (approx $14)

[Serpardum]

A hosipital can't just buy a $20 item and toss it in a drawer then give it to the patient. They have to make sure it's sterialized, quality controlled, not tampered with, etc...

A hospital is one place I want them to spend money to make sure that things going into or onto my body are taken care of as well as possible. And that costs money.

A $20 item could reasonablly cost them $100 by the time it gets to the patient, if not more. A $100 item going for $166 is reasonable.

[Teknics]

But your comment sucks because yeah we all feel that way, but that is provided by any respectable business (cough, government institutions (CANADA)), and it sucks more because a 66% markup and a 400% markup aren't as unrealistic in this scenario as an 800% markup.

[deerecub1977]

why cant anybody ever adnit they did wrong

[admm1069]

This is crap! $2 for materials, $164 for services (especially when the services are medical expenses). That's no shocking. If this continengy fee plantiff's lawyer is so considered about inflating prices beyond costs, why doesn't he just charge his client the costs of filing the lawsuit, the paper used in the briefs, and copies. He doesn't he wants upto 33% of the end recovery.

[dherman14]

these are the least intelligent comments i've ever read.

[One5thOfWhiskey]

That's why it's called a "contingency" contract. It's so people don't have to advance costs and attorney's fees. They can't afford to pay someone $150.00 -- $300.00 an hour, especially if they get no recovery.

[bobbelheadedmidget]

Hard to say who the bigger pig is.. the CEO of health care company (or just about any exec in any business) or lawyer.. 6 'o one, half dozen of the other. Both money grubbing scums willing to make a buck at any cost to anyone or anything.

[CandelarioGalvan]

Ya this lawyer is really concerned about cost.

Try to get him to write a letter for ya (secretary will do the work)

These cases are the reason it cost so much. Money gotta come from somewhere

[umbablabamos]

The cost is so high because people are suing because the cost is so high?

I'm no expert, but something seems a little off...

[CandelarioGalvan]

umbablabamos

People are suing for reasons other than cost.

Any Hospital will have a staff and other workers. How many people does that lawyer have?

[One5thOfWhiskey]

These cases are the reason they charged over $160.00 for a $2.00 item? LOL I guess when doctors get sued for removing the wrong leg, or giving the wrong drugs in the ER, it's the lawyers' fault too. Doctors, HMO's and the AMA specifically, are so full of shit.

[CandelarioGalvan]

One5thOfWhiskey

I don't argue with you thier. They are full of shit. However it doesn't change the facts that Medical cost are up becuase of lawsuits.

[judgegixxer]

C'mon guys, we all know that healthcare has absolutely nothing to do with health or care. The only thing they care about is the health of thier bank accounts.

[NoPriceGouging]

Yeah and charging me $16,919 for an item that cost the hospital less than $2,500 is just another example of hosptial price gouging while the execs get millions in compensation packages!

[luisjg]

the lawyer is Stupid !

166 was very fair ,,you cant imagine the overhead involved in running a practice,not to mention all the los of non paying patients.

stupid MF lawyers ,,F rats with a lic..

[rhazlewood07]

The $20 example included all overhead attributable to the good.

[judgegixxer]

So what your math is saying is 82 out of 83 patients don't pay for the $2 item, therefore it is reasonable to charge $166 for the $2 item to make up for the non payers? thats fuckin ludicrous. Typical tho for quack gp's with thier own practice. I thought people became Doctors because they wanted to help people, not become millionaires for handing out viagra and antibiotics.

[One5thOfWhiskey]

I'll remember that the next time an insurer sends a doctor who fucked up through the door. "Gee, I have to charge you $600.00 per hour to defend him. My secretary has been stealing pencils and well.. I lost my last few P.I. cases.. The money has to come from somewhere, otherwise, how will I trade my 07' 500SL in on the new 08?"

[Freedom13157]

@luisjg If they would charge with in reason then there would be more people able to pay their bills and not be so many non payers. 166 for a 2 dollar item is nothing but ignorance and higheway robbery.

[seneca67]

This attorney is very rapidly become a hero to me. I am subscribing to this. He has such a disarming, even relaxing way of arriving at the truth. Thank you for sharing this.

[moevette]

what a crook!!!?? why are health insurance premiums through the roof???!!!