@buzz4134 Bear witness, ha! Claptrap! Speak proper English and enough of the holy speak you typically lapse into when you lie. Jeffrey Holland does this all the time, as did old Joe, the criminal who fooled you all.
Your mind has been poisoned by the anti-Mormons. All that is left for me to do at this point is bear witness to you that the LDS Church is the only true church on the face of the earth. How absolutely correct was Joseph's prophesy concerning himself. From the beginning, Satan has tried to destroy him and this church...but it will go on. It is growing stronger every day, and now covers the earth. My advice...read something other than anti-Mormon drivel. Adieu!
What concerns me is that I know that Joseph was a prophet. You can ridicule that fact, but it will not change my mind. I have read and heard everything you said ad nauseum in books and on the web. Please keep this in mind, much of what you read is spewed by anti-Mormon groups. There is a concerted effort to destroy the church, but it won't succeed. Please consider the source when reading all your so-called "information." Joseph and others died martyrs for the cause, try having some respect.
@BUZZ4134 Just because anything is said by 'anti-mormons' does not necessarily make it untrue. My previous post might be considered 'anti', but its all true. I'm not trying to destroy your church, I'm responding to the claim that my church is wrong and that I'm a corrupt professor of abominable creeds. I don't think you'd take that lying down. Although his murder was not just, 'martyr' is a bit of a generous term for a guy who destroyed a press with his personal army and went down shooting.
Gee…somebody is actually reading this stuff! From my study, most of the points mentioned by the young man have been covered by those more knowledgeable than me. I am saying Joseph translated the BoM from Reformed Egyptian, and the BoA with divine help. It is not uncommon for various groups to use another culture's writing modus operandi in their own language. For example, the ancients could just as well have used cuneiform to write, but the translation would be very different in both cultures.
@BUZZ4134 I am the guy from the video, and I have read the Mormon explanations, I just think they're weak. We have a guy coming from a time and place where many new religious movements were being started and he is known to have lied about finding treasure with a seer stone. Then he finds and translates a golden book with the same stone, starts a movement, but not a single artifact or translation can actually be verified. Despite creative explanations, the benefit of the doubt is not on his side.
Just because Joseph didn't translate the scrolls and hypocephalous as per modern translation doesn't mean his translation was false. Chinese characters are used in Japanese Kanji and look and mean different things as well. Are you saying the Japanese are wrong? Joseph just gave the translation of whoever owned that scroll. The other things mentioned also don't disprove the book...all can be explained. The Rubric on the extant papryus also doesn't match that which was mentioned historically.
@BUZZ4134 OK, if it wasn't a modern translation, what was it? They've had the scrolls for quite some time now, if there was some sort of second language they could have figured it out. Are you saying his translation was totally subjective? Is there any possible way to corroborate anything he translated? I'm sure you can come up with explanations for anything, but unless you can prove something its all just unlikely speculation.
Faithful LDS defenders will make all sorts of claims about possible alternative translations of the texts, but none of them actually do the work required to prove their claims. Instead they just make baseless assertions of what "might" be possible!
Hook, line, and sinker. Or if you prefer, the straw that broke the camel's back. There is an hour documentary on youtube called the lost book of abraham which provides insurmountable evidence against Joseph Smith's authenticity in this case.
@knowtheonetruegospel No.... It's called anti-mormons are BEARING FALSE WITNESS of the facts and issues. They use a "little truth" to tell great lies about us.
Sorry.... But mormons are very intelligent and well balanced individuals. If anti-mormons were actually telling the truth, we wouldn't be mormon. But because we actually know MORE, things the anti-mormons don't tell you, we know they are LIARS and serve the Devil, not God.
3rd video guy LIE...... Joseph didn't attempt to translate the Kinderhook plates. His "statement" was in reference to other translations and revelations that were occurring at the time. He never made any actual translations of the Kinderhook plates. If he had, we would have it and know about it. His brief comment was simply an "artifact" a possible momentary mistake in application. There is no evidence otherwise. In fact, there is new evidence indicating he didn't even make a mistake.
2nd Video guy LIE..... LDS scholars DO NOT make those "excuses" you indicate. LDS scholars know & have found REAL evidences for the book, including many of Joseph's so-called "mistakes", including the one facsimile about Anubis..... Other facsimiles have been found by scholars indicating the same exact SCENE EXACTLY how Joseph described it.
I always wonder why people think it's okay to be BIGOTS and LIE about other people and religions just like Fanatical Islam and the KKK??? :(
Hey video guy..... The Papyri found is only SOME of the papyri Joseph had, which he had TONS. There is no evidence at all that those small "fragments" have anything to do with the actual BOA. And facsimiles are a dime a dozen..... so sorry, that doesn't prove it either. Joseph gave away most of the papyri he had. Sorry also, but the "real thing" wouldn't have ended up donated, clearly by someone who had originally obtained the junk stuff he gave away.
@leeuniverse In Smith's translation notes, you can see where he would take an Egyptian character and write out its translation right next to it. Those same characters exist elsewhere on the fragments they do have, and are known to not mean what Smith translated them as. So I guess the alleged lost sections must have had a completely unique translation with no precedent anywhere else and no way to test it.
@ldsvideoencyclopedia Problem with your unrighteous judgments are that several of Joseph's "translations" have been proven correct over a 100 years later. You seem to think "Egyptian" is one language and one usage by everyone. Sorry, but you don't know anything about the issue, only seeing the obvious that any idiot can see, rather than truly studying the issue for the WHOLE TRUTH. Anyway, enjoy your bigotry and bearing false witness. Christ said you will go to hell for it Mark 9 & Luke 9.
@ldsvideoencyclopedia Not going to do YOUR work for you, you won't believe it even if I do. Years of dealing with anti-mormons, you don't care what the evidences & truth is. You need to seek for the truth with an open, humble, teachable mind for yourself. Plenty of LDS websites, books & scholarship develop all aspects of mormonism, including correcting anti-mormon lies. Mormonism is the only religion with plenty of evidence for it's claims. Last 20 years alone have quadrupled in evidences.
@leeuniverse That's okay, I didn't really expect that you would send me anything. Thanks for sharing your assertions.
Also, in all your years dealing with anti-mormons, have you found that calling people idiots, liars, bigots, comparing them to the KKK, and telling them they'll go to hell (bad LDS doctrine by the way, I'm headed for the terrestrial kingdom) actually fosters an "open, humble, teachable mind" for them to assess your claims?
@ldsvideoencyclopedia Spare me the arrogant bearing false witness.... Just because someone doesn't entertain YOU every moment of the day doesn't mean they are LYING.... SCUMBAG!!! I've been dealing with you people for 20 years, and it doesn't matter what we show you or how much. Did someone hold your hand when you studied YOUR Christianity??? No... So, stop the arrogant double standards.
@ldsvideoencyclopedia Well, since you DO lie, are a bigot, are like the KKK in your actions and do it publically, do you think you should be exempt for criticism for what you actually are and do??? I don't know about you, but if everyone was calling me a bigot, a liar etc. about how I was judging something, my character allows me to reflect on it. Clearly your's doesn't. Further, liars, bigots, etc. like you never have been "open minded". So you don't surprise me.
@ldsvideoencyclopedia Bottom line is that you know what you should do if you wanted to know the truth about the issues related to us, but you refuse to do it because you are already invested in your hate and false judgments. You are no different than liberals or early anti-christians. More so, reflect on Christ's own words in Mark 9 & Luke 9 about YOU, your actions against other believers not with you. He's clear about your evil acts, no matter how "good" you are otherwise. You will burn.
@ldsvideoencyclopedia Further, you don't even KNOW what LDS teachings are concerning Hell, given your another bearing false witness statement concerning the lower kingdom and hell. Hell exists, it's called Spirit Prison. Sure, you may ultimately end up in a lower kingdom for your sins, but you are still going to hell before that. Anyway, Christ said it, so don't argue with me. Your actions are 100% in conformity to what he condemned the strongest of ANY other sin by the way.
@leeuniverse I'm just as much convinced of my position as you are of yours, and I think you are just as wrong as you think I am, and yet, I am able to express myself calmly without using harsh language or condemning people. You seem to think that I'm a hateful bigot just because I publicly disagree with the religion you hold to, but only you seem to be unhinged with anger. You want to throw around Bible verses, how about 1 Peter 3:15-16, or Matthew 5:44. Or how about 3 Nephi 11:29.
@leeuniverse You say I won't listen to evidence not because you know me, but because you have stereotyped me. Is this how you behaved on your mission when you went knocking on doors to tell people that their religion was not the whole truth but yours was? Despite your own bigoted ranting, I am willing to have a discussion and examine evidence. But if your method of 'dealing' with 'antimormons' involves not showing me the same conversational courtesy I show you, then maybe you should stop.
@ldsvideoencyclopedia Keep lying buddy.... LDS teach the Gospel of Christ, we don't go around telling people their religions are false like YOU do. Our focus is the same focus of Christ and the original Apostles, teaching the Gospel, not saying "who" is false, other than our own brethren whom we worship with, i.e. in their case fellow Jews, the Temple, etc. Paul was even brought before court accused to preaching against the Diana religion, yet no evidence was found of it and he was released.
@ldsvideoencyclopedia Why should I show "courtesy" to bigots??? Do you show courtesy to the KKK or Fanatical Islam? You need to understand that it doesn't matter how "nice" you act, or how much you "love" mormons. Your love is no different than the fanatic or the old man down the street who loves children but turns out to be a child molester. Your "love" is SICK, PERVERTED, and EVIL, when your every word about others is evil and nothing but LIES, it is wrong and of the devil. Get it yet???
@lee I thought those verses from Christ and Peter were sufficient reasons to show courtesy. Or perhaps because it would be bearing the good fruits of the Spirit? Gal 5:22-23
Anyways, maybe we can agree on this: Jesus said you must be born again. He removes sinful hearts of stone and replaces them with hearts of flesh that desire to love, follow, and share him. He does this even though we only deserve punishment and can do nothing to merit his love. Then he changes people to be more like him.
@ldsvideoencyclopedia Actually that's false doctrine. The purpose of life is of our own FREE WILL to become as the Father, a child of God, to demonstrate we are worthy to live with Him and the Son and inherit His Glory. False doctrine is that you don't have to "do" anything to be adopted and return with honor. True that as mortal beings, we can't overcome the fall for ourselves, thus the Atonement, but despite the Atonement, if we don't DO, he said he never new us. You conflate doctrines.
@leeuniverse I know that's false doctrine for Mormons, but its true for Bible-only Christians. I'm sure you know Eph 2:8-10: saved by grace, not of works, no man can boast, then the works God ordained follow. But then again, 'saved' means something different in Mormonism.
John 1:12 makes it clear that only receiving and belief is required to be God's sons.
So LDS theology is to demonstrate our own worth to get glory? Bible theology is Jesus saves by demonstrating his worth to his own glory.
@ldsvideoencyclopedia Sorry Mormons are the only TRUE "Bible only" Christians.... because we follow what it IN FULL teaches. I know because I was active in some 15 of your religions for years, reading the "bible only", and saw for myself your religions didn't follow what the Bible in full and accurately said. Only when I came upon Mormonism did a religion fit what the Bible actually said. You should learn not to confuse your interpretations as being they Bible, they aren't one and the same.
@leeuniverse Given that Mormonism uses lots of scripture other than the Bible, holds to so many teachings and practices not found in the Bible, and doesn't even believe the Bible to be translated correctly, I don't see how you can say they are the the 'only TRUE "Bible only" Christians'.
@ldsvideoencyclopedia There are tons of things in the Bible that you don't practice & believe, and/or do so inaccurately, which Mormons know and believe. I spent years in 15 of your religions, being beholden to no particular ideology, reading the Bible for myself, and seeing for myself how your religions cherry picked and omitted A LOT, all believed differently, even in the same religion on various subjects, etc. & ONLY when I came upon mormonism did a religion fully fit what the book said.
@ldsvideoencyclopedia That's how I can say for sure they are the only true bible only christians. Yes, they have additional revelations from God, but it all conforms fully to what the Bible teaches.
Me, I've been objective in my study of religion to find what is actually true and from God, you haven't. You are ingrained in a particular ideology, and think that is the actual truth, never having stepped outside of your box to objectively compare.
@leeuniverse I think the word you're looking for is 'trumps', not 'conforms'. For example, the Mormon uses of temples (marriages, baptisms, endowments) has zero precedent or connection to what is described in the Bible (animal and grain sacrifices), even down to who can enter and when. Your revelation has replaced the Biblical use, especially since the NT doesn't contain any info about temples, except to say that believers are the temple (1 Corinthians 3:16).
@ldsvideoencyclopedia Completely false that mormonisms temple related practices have zero precedent or connection to what is described in the Bible as well as early christian practice including the Apostles themselves. Like I said, you don't actually know your Bible. Watch this video as just one of many scholarship works on the subject. youtube dott com /watch?v=rYV2VHrC4wA
@ldsvideoencyclopedia I've already said that because of the Atonement we are ultimately saved, that we can't do it ourselves. You act like we don't have Bibles. But, you create a false doctrine from that, as I've explained. The Bible also teaches we must "work out our own salvation". Christ also said, you can believe and do whatever you want thinking you are "good", but unless you are actually following him, having converted in heart AND actions, HE NEVER KNEW YOU. Anti'ism is against Him.
@leeuniverse The Bible is clear that actions are the result and proof of a true conversion. Not that non-converted people can't do good works, but that converted people can't help but do good works. I'm not creating a doctrine, that is just the plain, face value reading of it.The 'work out your own salvation' verse is talking about obedience, just like Christ obeyed, and is immediately followed by saying it is God who works in you to will and do his pleasure.
@ldsvideoencyclopedia Sorry, but true Christians being brainwashed zombies not doing anything of their own free will but at "God's Pleasure" is false doctrine. It is a perversion of what the Bible actually teaches on the subject. It is a perversion because it's an ideology created by omitting important scriptures which give a more balanced and free will perspective.
@ldsvideoencyclopedia If true as to John 1:12 per your interpretation, then why are you condemning Mormonism? You have double standards. If belief was "all" that was required, then you should leave us alone. But, you don't really believe that's all that's required. You believe that your "legalism" excludes certain Christians, that we aren't really Christians. Logical fallacy 101 you suffer from. As to worth, it's not either or, it's BOTH. The purpose of Life is to Return with Honor.
@leeuniverse Belief is all that is required, but it must be belief in that particular person of Jesus. The Mormon Jesus and Bible Jesus are not the same person and are mutually exclusive. I don't condemn Mormons, but John 3:18 says that those who don't believe in him stand condemned already. So that's my main issue with Mormonism, it teaches a Jesus that is not the one those verses refer to.
@ldsvideoencyclopedia Nope. If the so-called mormon Jesus was different than the Bible Jesus, we would know it. We spend two years out of four in our Sunday school officially studying the Bible. Now, your man-made interpretations omissions & perversions of what the Bible actually states, yes, we teach differently to a degree. But, that's not the same as being different from the Bible. Learn the difference. Our Jesus is the Jesus of the Bible, yours is the Jesus of the Modern Nicene Creed.
@leeuniverse Hinckley said Mormons don't believe in the traditional Jesus, and McConkie said Christians believe in a mythical Christ. Clearly they don't think we believe in the same person. Here's some things about Christ Mormonism teaches not found in the Bible: that Jesus is a created being, the entire preexistence story, went to South America, paid for sin in Gethsemane, is not God but a god, was born of a physical union between God and Mary, and was a polygamist. Not my Jesus.
@ldsvideoencyclopedia "Traditional" is not the same as Biblical. The modern Trinity is traditional, not Biblical. I'm speaking of the basics that the Bible clearly state about Christ, we believe the exact same. Only Begotten Son, Atonement, Always God, etc. FALSE WITNESS! We DO NOT believe he's a "created being" LIAR! Only anti-mormons teach that about us, not "US". Pre-mortal life is in the Bible, Christ is there. Again, we are talking Christ & the Bible here, not the more we may know.
@leeuniverse Does Mormonism teach Jesus existed from all eternity? Nope, so at some point he was created. Don't use that word if you like, but the concept of 'there was a time when Jesus did not exist' is what I'm talking about. And I do believe in the concept of the Trinity, so by your and GBH's definition up there, we don't believe in the same Jesus. Farce ended.
@ldsvideoencyclopedia Yes they do..... You bear false witness. Mormonism teaches that ALL are eternal. In fact, science has proved LDS theology also. Nothing is created nor destroyed, only changed. There is no such thing in Mormonism as a time when Christ didn't exist. Yours is the "farce".... You are so ingrained in your bigotry, hate and propaganda, that when a Mormon corrects you, you stare at them and continue to lie about their theology, refusing to correct yourself.
@leeuniverse So your claim that "We don't believe a single thing as to HIM different than you" is uninformed at best.
Those other doctrines are still important, but they are mainly symptoms of having a different God and Christ. Again, I've never condemned anyone, you're the one who told me I was going to hell. And what is all this business about the Nicene creed and prophets that I follow? I don't follow any prophets, and certainly not ones who teach a different God like Smith did.
@ldsvideoencyclopedia Sorry, not uninformed at all. When it comes to Christ, he's exactly the same. Now, you DO pervert some of our beliefs about him, making it sound like we believe differently then you, but that's not the same as actually believing differently about Christ than you. Christ is quite clear of what he's like in the Bible, thus there are no difference between us. Yes, other things are important, but you are trying to have it both ways. You're not actually only about Christ.
@leeuniverse Yep, who he is in the Bible is so clear that I am forced to reject the additional Mormon teachings. They contradict and create two Jesus that couldn't possibly exist together, one of them has to be false. Those other doctrines just serve as further proof that it is a different Jesus (and God).
@ldsvideoencyclopedia It is only because of your devilish perversions of mormonism and as well as some of the Biblical Jesus in your man-made without authority interpretations and brainwashed box that you believe the Bible Jesus and the so-called Mormon Jesus are two different people. I certainly wasn't brainwashed nor in a box like you when you came upon mormonism, knowing the Bible, and knowing actual mormonism and comparing the two. You are ignorant.
@leeuniverse The authority that I have is the royal priesthood given to all believers (1 Pet 2:9). But I only speak for God when I conform to what is taught in the Bible (which I am happily 'brainwashed' by). If you're referring to apostles, there is zero indication that apostleship was meant to continue beyond the ones in the NT. One more Jesus difference: the biblical Jesus said his words would never pass away and his church always prevail, Mormonism teaches both were lost until 1830.
@ldsvideoencyclopedia Predicable. that so-called "royal priesthood" is a Protestant invention of the 1,400's to justify their separation from the Holy Sea. You take the statement out of context, applying it to a subject "The Priesthood" that the statement was never meaning to apply to. You are not brainwashed by the Bible, you are brainwashed by your religion & interpretations of men. Just like this one. Only because you don't know your Bible do you think the Apostleship wasn't to continue.
@leeuniverse Not an invention, its pretty clear in context. Read whatever you want into those passages but the intention is clear: there is no allowance for a total apostasy and loss of the true gospel and church for 1800 years in Christ's statements. Where does the Bible teach apostleship was meant to continue? Anyways, I've pretty much said what I wanted to say now, thanks for cutting down on the name calling. Also, I posted a few blocks you didn't respond to, I wonder if you missed them.
@ldsvideoencyclopedia It is an invention, that interpretation didn't exist until 1400 years after Christ. As to the Apostasy, there are many scriptures on the subject, by the Apostles themselves as well. Several New Testament scriptures demonstrate the Apostleship was to continue, Apostles were replaced, etc. One clear example is Paul. Christ was well dead before he was called to be an Apostle. Yes, I missed those posts, the comment feature of youtube doesn't work well. I will look.
@leeuniverse What interpretation? The face value meaning couldn't be clearer. Yep, warnings of apostasy all the time, but total apostasy is not an option. God preserves his own work and people, even if there's only a remnant. One apostle was replaced, a few others were added, but there is still not a single teaching that it was to continue after those. Also, I answered a few other posts this time too.
@ldsvideoencyclopedia Is that kinda like there was never a total apostasy before Christ came in scriptural history? Further, total in context is in reference to the fullness of the truth and authority of God. Obviously not every truth was lost. Apostles were replaced and added, even after Christ, thus the fact that they were meant to continue is clear. Further, the Bible in multiple places especially Daniel and Revelations make clear of an apostasy and restoration.
@ldsvideoencyclopedia Not what Jesus said. You are ripping his words out of context, adding your own religion onto his words. 1. He said heaven and earth may pass away, but not his word. Obviously, if the earth can pass away, then the Gospel wouldn't be on the earth. Just because man was in apostasy of some of His Gospel and the authorized Church, doesn't mean his "word" was destroyed. Big difference. The WORD is Eternal. Man can do all kinds of things and has in Biblical history.
@ldsvideoencyclopedia 2. Again, not what he said. He said the gates of hell shall not prevail against "the rock". The rock being spoken of was REVELATION.... if you actually read it in context. Read this article and stop taking Biblical scripture out of it's intended context thus adding to the Word. mormonapologeticstudies dottt org /2010/01/07/upon-this-rock-i-will-build-my-church/
@ldsvideoencyclopedia And please pray tell what about "Jesus" do mormons believe different than you? You say Jesus is the way, then clearly all the other doctrines outside of Jesus should be irrelevant to you then. But THAT is actually why you condemn us. It's not Jesus himself. We don't believe a single thing as to HIM different than you. You only bear false witness of us, saying we do. You pervert our doctrine and our words to say we do. And don't tell me you don't.
@ldsvideoencyclopedia Common..... NAME IT. Name a single aspect of Jesus Himself that Mormons according to the Bible don't believe??? That's because you can't. It's the extra stuff doctrines and practices you condemn us for, just because your "Godly" so-called "traditional" Christianity doesn't believe or do certain things. You have no clue the complete brainwashed moron you are. You follow the party line, without a care the origins of your beliefs, that they are of men, false prophets.
@ldsvideoencyclopedia You have the gal to claim and condemn "us" as following false prophets? Those you follow fit the very definition of false prophet. They/you stand as watchmen, they/you interpret the Word, they/you lead others, and by what authority do you do so? Even when Christ himself was on the earth, he still needed AUTHORIZED SERVANTS. If you actually read your New Testament, you would know and see this. Yet, you think YOU speak for God, and have the right to say we don't? ha ha
Polaris means Satan in Greek and burning in Latin. It appears that all the stars circle around Polaris but we know that is an optical illusion and symbolizes the the great lie of Satan that tempts mankind to follow him. The shaft of the Great Pyramid of Giza points directly to the star Polaris and symbolizes Satan cast out of Heaven and down to Earth. The Great Pyramid is Temple of God full of symbolism that Abraham taught the Egyptian pharaoh the Gospel in terms of stars and planets
The LDS is a MONEY making machine they will say anything to keep the flow of CASH coming in . Just to let anybody know Joe smith came to me the other night with 3 golden turds saying take these turds and remember me. As I read the ancient writings on the golden turds I alone can read the writings. All I can say is that all mormons must obay me sayith the 3 golden turds . Well there you have it you can't deny it that what Joe smith said to me . As you know I had to get rid of the 3 golden turds
@buzz4134 Bear witness, ha! Claptrap! Speak proper English and enough of the holy speak you typically lapse into when you lie. Jeffrey Holland does this all the time, as did old Joe, the criminal who fooled you all.
bolowyn 2 days ago
Your mind has been poisoned by the anti-Mormons. All that is left for me to do at this point is bear witness to you that the LDS Church is the only true church on the face of the earth. How absolutely correct was Joseph's prophesy concerning himself. From the beginning, Satan has tried to destroy him and this church...but it will go on. It is growing stronger every day, and now covers the earth. My advice...read something other than anti-Mormon drivel. Adieu!
BUZZ4134 3 months ago
What concerns me is that I know that Joseph was a prophet. You can ridicule that fact, but it will not change my mind. I have read and heard everything you said ad nauseum in books and on the web. Please keep this in mind, much of what you read is spewed by anti-Mormon groups. There is a concerted effort to destroy the church, but it won't succeed. Please consider the source when reading all your so-called "information." Joseph and others died martyrs for the cause, try having some respect.
BUZZ4134 3 months ago
@BUZZ4134 Just because anything is said by 'anti-mormons' does not necessarily make it untrue. My previous post might be considered 'anti', but its all true. I'm not trying to destroy your church, I'm responding to the claim that my church is wrong and that I'm a corrupt professor of abominable creeds. I don't think you'd take that lying down. Although his murder was not just, 'martyr' is a bit of a generous term for a guy who destroyed a press with his personal army and went down shooting.
ldsvideoencyclopedia 3 months ago
Gee…somebody is actually reading this stuff! From my study, most of the points mentioned by the young man have been covered by those more knowledgeable than me. I am saying Joseph translated the BoM from Reformed Egyptian, and the BoA with divine help. It is not uncommon for various groups to use another culture's writing modus operandi in their own language. For example, the ancients could just as well have used cuneiform to write, but the translation would be very different in both cultures.
BUZZ4134 3 months ago
@BUZZ4134 I am the guy from the video, and I have read the Mormon explanations, I just think they're weak. We have a guy coming from a time and place where many new religious movements were being started and he is known to have lied about finding treasure with a seer stone. Then he finds and translates a golden book with the same stone, starts a movement, but not a single artifact or translation can actually be verified. Despite creative explanations, the benefit of the doubt is not on his side.
ldsvideoencyclopedia 3 months ago
Just because Joseph didn't translate the scrolls and hypocephalous as per modern translation doesn't mean his translation was false. Chinese characters are used in Japanese Kanji and look and mean different things as well. Are you saying the Japanese are wrong? Joseph just gave the translation of whoever owned that scroll. The other things mentioned also don't disprove the book...all can be explained. The Rubric on the extant papryus also doesn't match that which was mentioned historically.
BUZZ4134 3 months ago
@BUZZ4134 OK, if it wasn't a modern translation, what was it? They've had the scrolls for quite some time now, if there was some sort of second language they could have figured it out. Are you saying his translation was totally subjective? Is there any possible way to corroborate anything he translated? I'm sure you can come up with explanations for anything, but unless you can prove something its all just unlikely speculation.
ldsvideoencyclopedia 3 months ago
@ldsvideoencyclopedia You make some very good points.
Faithful LDS defenders will make all sorts of claims about possible alternative translations of the texts, but none of them actually do the work required to prove their claims. Instead they just make baseless assertions of what "might" be possible!
boydslittlefactory 3 months ago
Hook, line, and sinker. Or if you prefer, the straw that broke the camel's back. There is an hour documentary on youtube called the lost book of abraham which provides insurmountable evidence against Joseph Smith's authenticity in this case.
GiveCourage 3 months ago
@knowtheonetruegospel No.... It's called anti-mormons are BEARING FALSE WITNESS of the facts and issues. They use a "little truth" to tell great lies about us.
Sorry.... But mormons are very intelligent and well balanced individuals. If anti-mormons were actually telling the truth, we wouldn't be mormon. But because we actually know MORE, things the anti-mormons don't tell you, we know they are LIARS and serve the Devil, not God.
leeuniverse 4 months ago
3rd video guy LIE...... Joseph didn't attempt to translate the Kinderhook plates. His "statement" was in reference to other translations and revelations that were occurring at the time. He never made any actual translations of the Kinderhook plates. If he had, we would have it and know about it. His brief comment was simply an "artifact" a possible momentary mistake in application. There is no evidence otherwise. In fact, there is new evidence indicating he didn't even make a mistake.
leeuniverse 4 months ago
@leeuniverse Are you referring to the History of the Church where he says that he translated a portion of them?
ldsvideoencyclopedia 4 months ago
2nd Video guy LIE..... LDS scholars DO NOT make those "excuses" you indicate. LDS scholars know & have found REAL evidences for the book, including many of Joseph's so-called "mistakes", including the one facsimile about Anubis..... Other facsimiles have been found by scholars indicating the same exact SCENE EXACTLY how Joseph described it.
I always wonder why people think it's okay to be BIGOTS and LIE about other people and religions just like Fanatical Islam and the KKK??? :(
leeuniverse 4 months ago
@leeuniverse Some scholars do make those excuses, you can find them on FAIR LDS. And no, there is no facsimile showing anyone trying to kill Abraham.
Is it bigotry for the first vision to say that I am a corrupt professor of abominable creeds? I sure didn't use language like that in the video.
ldsvideoencyclopedia 4 months ago
Hey video guy..... The Papyri found is only SOME of the papyri Joseph had, which he had TONS. There is no evidence at all that those small "fragments" have anything to do with the actual BOA. And facsimiles are a dime a dozen..... so sorry, that doesn't prove it either. Joseph gave away most of the papyri he had. Sorry also, but the "real thing" wouldn't have ended up donated, clearly by someone who had originally obtained the junk stuff he gave away.
leeuniverse 4 months ago
@leeuniverse In Smith's translation notes, you can see where he would take an Egyptian character and write out its translation right next to it. Those same characters exist elsewhere on the fragments they do have, and are known to not mean what Smith translated them as. So I guess the alleged lost sections must have had a completely unique translation with no precedent anywhere else and no way to test it.
ldsvideoencyclopedia 4 months ago
@ldsvideoencyclopedia Problem with your unrighteous judgments are that several of Joseph's "translations" have been proven correct over a 100 years later. You seem to think "Egyptian" is one language and one usage by everyone. Sorry, but you don't know anything about the issue, only seeing the obvious that any idiot can see, rather than truly studying the issue for the WHOLE TRUTH. Anyway, enjoy your bigotry and bearing false witness. Christ said you will go to hell for it Mark 9 & Luke 9.
leeuniverse 4 months ago
@leeuniverse I would love to see verification that any of Smith's translations can be proved correct, please send me that info.
ldsvideoencyclopedia 4 months ago
@ldsvideoencyclopedia Not going to do YOUR work for you, you won't believe it even if I do. Years of dealing with anti-mormons, you don't care what the evidences & truth is. You need to seek for the truth with an open, humble, teachable mind for yourself. Plenty of LDS websites, books & scholarship develop all aspects of mormonism, including correcting anti-mormon lies. Mormonism is the only religion with plenty of evidence for it's claims. Last 20 years alone have quadrupled in evidences.
leeuniverse 4 months ago
@leeuniverse That's okay, I didn't really expect that you would send me anything. Thanks for sharing your assertions.
Also, in all your years dealing with anti-mormons, have you found that calling people idiots, liars, bigots, comparing them to the KKK, and telling them they'll go to hell (bad LDS doctrine by the way, I'm headed for the terrestrial kingdom) actually fosters an "open, humble, teachable mind" for them to assess your claims?
ldsvideoencyclopedia 4 months ago
@ldsvideoencyclopedia Spare me the arrogant bearing false witness.... Just because someone doesn't entertain YOU every moment of the day doesn't mean they are LYING.... SCUMBAG!!! I've been dealing with you people for 20 years, and it doesn't matter what we show you or how much. Did someone hold your hand when you studied YOUR Christianity??? No... So, stop the arrogant double standards.
leeuniverse 4 months ago
@ldsvideoencyclopedia Well, since you DO lie, are a bigot, are like the KKK in your actions and do it publically, do you think you should be exempt for criticism for what you actually are and do??? I don't know about you, but if everyone was calling me a bigot, a liar etc. about how I was judging something, my character allows me to reflect on it. Clearly your's doesn't. Further, liars, bigots, etc. like you never have been "open minded". So you don't surprise me.
leeuniverse 4 months ago
@ldsvideoencyclopedia Bottom line is that you know what you should do if you wanted to know the truth about the issues related to us, but you refuse to do it because you are already invested in your hate and false judgments. You are no different than liberals or early anti-christians. More so, reflect on Christ's own words in Mark 9 & Luke 9 about YOU, your actions against other believers not with you. He's clear about your evil acts, no matter how "good" you are otherwise. You will burn.
leeuniverse 4 months ago
@ldsvideoencyclopedia Further, you don't even KNOW what LDS teachings are concerning Hell, given your another bearing false witness statement concerning the lower kingdom and hell. Hell exists, it's called Spirit Prison. Sure, you may ultimately end up in a lower kingdom for your sins, but you are still going to hell before that. Anyway, Christ said it, so don't argue with me. Your actions are 100% in conformity to what he condemned the strongest of ANY other sin by the way.
leeuniverse 4 months ago
@leeuniverse I'm just as much convinced of my position as you are of yours, and I think you are just as wrong as you think I am, and yet, I am able to express myself calmly without using harsh language or condemning people. You seem to think that I'm a hateful bigot just because I publicly disagree with the religion you hold to, but only you seem to be unhinged with anger. You want to throw around Bible verses, how about 1 Peter 3:15-16, or Matthew 5:44. Or how about 3 Nephi 11:29.
ldsvideoencyclopedia 4 months ago
@leeuniverse You say I won't listen to evidence not because you know me, but because you have stereotyped me. Is this how you behaved on your mission when you went knocking on doors to tell people that their religion was not the whole truth but yours was? Despite your own bigoted ranting, I am willing to have a discussion and examine evidence. But if your method of 'dealing' with 'antimormons' involves not showing me the same conversational courtesy I show you, then maybe you should stop.
ldsvideoencyclopedia 4 months ago
@ldsvideoencyclopedia Keep lying buddy.... LDS teach the Gospel of Christ, we don't go around telling people their religions are false like YOU do. Our focus is the same focus of Christ and the original Apostles, teaching the Gospel, not saying "who" is false, other than our own brethren whom we worship with, i.e. in their case fellow Jews, the Temple, etc. Paul was even brought before court accused to preaching against the Diana religion, yet no evidence was found of it and he was released.
leeuniverse 4 months ago
@ldsvideoencyclopedia Why should I show "courtesy" to bigots??? Do you show courtesy to the KKK or Fanatical Islam? You need to understand that it doesn't matter how "nice" you act, or how much you "love" mormons. Your love is no different than the fanatic or the old man down the street who loves children but turns out to be a child molester. Your "love" is SICK, PERVERTED, and EVIL, when your every word about others is evil and nothing but LIES, it is wrong and of the devil. Get it yet???
leeuniverse 4 months ago
@lee I thought those verses from Christ and Peter were sufficient reasons to show courtesy. Or perhaps because it would be bearing the good fruits of the Spirit? Gal 5:22-23
Anyways, maybe we can agree on this: Jesus said you must be born again. He removes sinful hearts of stone and replaces them with hearts of flesh that desire to love, follow, and share him. He does this even though we only deserve punishment and can do nothing to merit his love. Then he changes people to be more like him.
ldsvideoencyclopedia 4 months ago
@ldsvideoencyclopedia Actually that's false doctrine. The purpose of life is of our own FREE WILL to become as the Father, a child of God, to demonstrate we are worthy to live with Him and the Son and inherit His Glory. False doctrine is that you don't have to "do" anything to be adopted and return with honor. True that as mortal beings, we can't overcome the fall for ourselves, thus the Atonement, but despite the Atonement, if we don't DO, he said he never new us. You conflate doctrines.
leeuniverse 4 months ago
@leeuniverse I know that's false doctrine for Mormons, but its true for Bible-only Christians. I'm sure you know Eph 2:8-10: saved by grace, not of works, no man can boast, then the works God ordained follow. But then again, 'saved' means something different in Mormonism.
John 1:12 makes it clear that only receiving and belief is required to be God's sons.
So LDS theology is to demonstrate our own worth to get glory? Bible theology is Jesus saves by demonstrating his worth to his own glory.
ldsvideoencyclopedia 4 months ago
@ldsvideoencyclopedia Sorry Mormons are the only TRUE "Bible only" Christians.... because we follow what it IN FULL teaches. I know because I was active in some 15 of your religions for years, reading the "bible only", and saw for myself your religions didn't follow what the Bible in full and accurately said. Only when I came upon Mormonism did a religion fit what the Bible actually said. You should learn not to confuse your interpretations as being they Bible, they aren't one and the same.
leeuniverse 4 months ago
@leeuniverse Given that Mormonism uses lots of scripture other than the Bible, holds to so many teachings and practices not found in the Bible, and doesn't even believe the Bible to be translated correctly, I don't see how you can say they are the the 'only TRUE "Bible only" Christians'.
ldsvideoencyclopedia 4 months ago
@ldsvideoencyclopedia There are tons of things in the Bible that you don't practice & believe, and/or do so inaccurately, which Mormons know and believe. I spent years in 15 of your religions, being beholden to no particular ideology, reading the Bible for myself, and seeing for myself how your religions cherry picked and omitted A LOT, all believed differently, even in the same religion on various subjects, etc. & ONLY when I came upon mormonism did a religion fully fit what the book said.
leeuniverse 4 months ago
@ldsvideoencyclopedia That's how I can say for sure they are the only true bible only christians. Yes, they have additional revelations from God, but it all conforms fully to what the Bible teaches.
Me, I've been objective in my study of religion to find what is actually true and from God, you haven't. You are ingrained in a particular ideology, and think that is the actual truth, never having stepped outside of your box to objectively compare.
leeuniverse 4 months ago
@leeuniverse I think the word you're looking for is 'trumps', not 'conforms'. For example, the Mormon uses of temples (marriages, baptisms, endowments) has zero precedent or connection to what is described in the Bible (animal and grain sacrifices), even down to who can enter and when. Your revelation has replaced the Biblical use, especially since the NT doesn't contain any info about temples, except to say that believers are the temple (1 Corinthians 3:16).
ldsvideoencyclopedia 4 months ago
@ldsvideoencyclopedia Completely false that mormonisms temple related practices have zero precedent or connection to what is described in the Bible as well as early christian practice including the Apostles themselves. Like I said, you don't actually know your Bible. Watch this video as just one of many scholarship works on the subject. youtube dott com /watch?v=rYV2VHrC4wA
leeuniverse 4 months ago
@ldsvideoencyclopedia I've already said that because of the Atonement we are ultimately saved, that we can't do it ourselves. You act like we don't have Bibles. But, you create a false doctrine from that, as I've explained. The Bible also teaches we must "work out our own salvation". Christ also said, you can believe and do whatever you want thinking you are "good", but unless you are actually following him, having converted in heart AND actions, HE NEVER KNEW YOU. Anti'ism is against Him.
leeuniverse 4 months ago
@leeuniverse The Bible is clear that actions are the result and proof of a true conversion. Not that non-converted people can't do good works, but that converted people can't help but do good works. I'm not creating a doctrine, that is just the plain, face value reading of it.The 'work out your own salvation' verse is talking about obedience, just like Christ obeyed, and is immediately followed by saying it is God who works in you to will and do his pleasure.
ldsvideoencyclopedia 4 months ago
@ldsvideoencyclopedia Sorry, but true Christians being brainwashed zombies not doing anything of their own free will but at "God's Pleasure" is false doctrine. It is a perversion of what the Bible actually teaches on the subject. It is a perversion because it's an ideology created by omitting important scriptures which give a more balanced and free will perspective.
leeuniverse 4 months ago
@ldsvideoencyclopedia If true as to John 1:12 per your interpretation, then why are you condemning Mormonism? You have double standards. If belief was "all" that was required, then you should leave us alone. But, you don't really believe that's all that's required. You believe that your "legalism" excludes certain Christians, that we aren't really Christians. Logical fallacy 101 you suffer from. As to worth, it's not either or, it's BOTH. The purpose of Life is to Return with Honor.
leeuniverse 4 months ago
@leeuniverse Belief is all that is required, but it must be belief in that particular person of Jesus. The Mormon Jesus and Bible Jesus are not the same person and are mutually exclusive. I don't condemn Mormons, but John 3:18 says that those who don't believe in him stand condemned already. So that's my main issue with Mormonism, it teaches a Jesus that is not the one those verses refer to.
ldsvideoencyclopedia 4 months ago
@ldsvideoencyclopedia Nope. If the so-called mormon Jesus was different than the Bible Jesus, we would know it. We spend two years out of four in our Sunday school officially studying the Bible. Now, your man-made interpretations omissions & perversions of what the Bible actually states, yes, we teach differently to a degree. But, that's not the same as being different from the Bible. Learn the difference. Our Jesus is the Jesus of the Bible, yours is the Jesus of the Modern Nicene Creed.
leeuniverse 4 months ago
@leeuniverse Hinckley said Mormons don't believe in the traditional Jesus, and McConkie said Christians believe in a mythical Christ. Clearly they don't think we believe in the same person. Here's some things about Christ Mormonism teaches not found in the Bible: that Jesus is a created being, the entire preexistence story, went to South America, paid for sin in Gethsemane, is not God but a god, was born of a physical union between God and Mary, and was a polygamist. Not my Jesus.
ldsvideoencyclopedia 4 months ago
@ldsvideoencyclopedia "Traditional" is not the same as Biblical. The modern Trinity is traditional, not Biblical. I'm speaking of the basics that the Bible clearly state about Christ, we believe the exact same. Only Begotten Son, Atonement, Always God, etc. FALSE WITNESS! We DO NOT believe he's a "created being" LIAR! Only anti-mormons teach that about us, not "US". Pre-mortal life is in the Bible, Christ is there. Again, we are talking Christ & the Bible here, not the more we may know.
leeuniverse 4 months ago
@leeuniverse Does Mormonism teach Jesus existed from all eternity? Nope, so at some point he was created. Don't use that word if you like, but the concept of 'there was a time when Jesus did not exist' is what I'm talking about. And I do believe in the concept of the Trinity, so by your and GBH's definition up there, we don't believe in the same Jesus. Farce ended.
ldsvideoencyclopedia 4 months ago
@ldsvideoencyclopedia Yes they do..... You bear false witness. Mormonism teaches that ALL are eternal. In fact, science has proved LDS theology also. Nothing is created nor destroyed, only changed. There is no such thing in Mormonism as a time when Christ didn't exist. Yours is the "farce".... You are so ingrained in your bigotry, hate and propaganda, that when a Mormon corrects you, you stare at them and continue to lie about their theology, refusing to correct yourself.
leeuniverse 4 months ago
@leeuniverse So your claim that "We don't believe a single thing as to HIM different than you" is uninformed at best.
Those other doctrines are still important, but they are mainly symptoms of having a different God and Christ. Again, I've never condemned anyone, you're the one who told me I was going to hell. And what is all this business about the Nicene creed and prophets that I follow? I don't follow any prophets, and certainly not ones who teach a different God like Smith did.
ldsvideoencyclopedia 4 months ago
@ldsvideoencyclopedia Sorry, not uninformed at all. When it comes to Christ, he's exactly the same. Now, you DO pervert some of our beliefs about him, making it sound like we believe differently then you, but that's not the same as actually believing differently about Christ than you. Christ is quite clear of what he's like in the Bible, thus there are no difference between us. Yes, other things are important, but you are trying to have it both ways. You're not actually only about Christ.
leeuniverse 4 months ago
@leeuniverse Yep, who he is in the Bible is so clear that I am forced to reject the additional Mormon teachings. They contradict and create two Jesus that couldn't possibly exist together, one of them has to be false. Those other doctrines just serve as further proof that it is a different Jesus (and God).
ldsvideoencyclopedia 4 months ago
@ldsvideoencyclopedia It is only because of your devilish perversions of mormonism and as well as some of the Biblical Jesus in your man-made without authority interpretations and brainwashed box that you believe the Bible Jesus and the so-called Mormon Jesus are two different people. I certainly wasn't brainwashed nor in a box like you when you came upon mormonism, knowing the Bible, and knowing actual mormonism and comparing the two. You are ignorant.
leeuniverse 4 months ago
@leeuniverse The authority that I have is the royal priesthood given to all believers (1 Pet 2:9). But I only speak for God when I conform to what is taught in the Bible (which I am happily 'brainwashed' by). If you're referring to apostles, there is zero indication that apostleship was meant to continue beyond the ones in the NT. One more Jesus difference: the biblical Jesus said his words would never pass away and his church always prevail, Mormonism teaches both were lost until 1830.
ldsvideoencyclopedia 4 months ago
@ldsvideoencyclopedia Predicable. that so-called "royal priesthood" is a Protestant invention of the 1,400's to justify their separation from the Holy Sea. You take the statement out of context, applying it to a subject "The Priesthood" that the statement was never meaning to apply to. You are not brainwashed by the Bible, you are brainwashed by your religion & interpretations of men. Just like this one. Only because you don't know your Bible do you think the Apostleship wasn't to continue.
leeuniverse 4 months ago
@leeuniverse Not an invention, its pretty clear in context. Read whatever you want into those passages but the intention is clear: there is no allowance for a total apostasy and loss of the true gospel and church for 1800 years in Christ's statements. Where does the Bible teach apostleship was meant to continue? Anyways, I've pretty much said what I wanted to say now, thanks for cutting down on the name calling. Also, I posted a few blocks you didn't respond to, I wonder if you missed them.
ldsvideoencyclopedia 4 months ago
@ldsvideoencyclopedia It is an invention, that interpretation didn't exist until 1400 years after Christ. As to the Apostasy, there are many scriptures on the subject, by the Apostles themselves as well. Several New Testament scriptures demonstrate the Apostleship was to continue, Apostles were replaced, etc. One clear example is Paul. Christ was well dead before he was called to be an Apostle. Yes, I missed those posts, the comment feature of youtube doesn't work well. I will look.
leeuniverse 4 months ago
@leeuniverse What interpretation? The face value meaning couldn't be clearer. Yep, warnings of apostasy all the time, but total apostasy is not an option. God preserves his own work and people, even if there's only a remnant. One apostle was replaced, a few others were added, but there is still not a single teaching that it was to continue after those. Also, I answered a few other posts this time too.
ldsvideoencyclopedia 4 months ago
@ldsvideoencyclopedia Is that kinda like there was never a total apostasy before Christ came in scriptural history? Further, total in context is in reference to the fullness of the truth and authority of God. Obviously not every truth was lost. Apostles were replaced and added, even after Christ, thus the fact that they were meant to continue is clear. Further, the Bible in multiple places especially Daniel and Revelations make clear of an apostasy and restoration.
leeuniverse 4 months ago
@ldsvideoencyclopedia Not what Jesus said. You are ripping his words out of context, adding your own religion onto his words. 1. He said heaven and earth may pass away, but not his word. Obviously, if the earth can pass away, then the Gospel wouldn't be on the earth. Just because man was in apostasy of some of His Gospel and the authorized Church, doesn't mean his "word" was destroyed. Big difference. The WORD is Eternal. Man can do all kinds of things and has in Biblical history.
leeuniverse 4 months ago
@ldsvideoencyclopedia 2. Again, not what he said. He said the gates of hell shall not prevail against "the rock". The rock being spoken of was REVELATION.... if you actually read it in context. Read this article and stop taking Biblical scripture out of it's intended context thus adding to the Word. mormonapologeticstudies dottt org /2010/01/07/upon-this-rock-i-will-build-my-church/
leeuniverse 4 months ago
@ldsvideoencyclopedia And please pray tell what about "Jesus" do mormons believe different than you? You say Jesus is the way, then clearly all the other doctrines outside of Jesus should be irrelevant to you then. But THAT is actually why you condemn us. It's not Jesus himself. We don't believe a single thing as to HIM different than you. You only bear false witness of us, saying we do. You pervert our doctrine and our words to say we do. And don't tell me you don't.
leeuniverse 4 months ago
@ldsvideoencyclopedia Common..... NAME IT. Name a single aspect of Jesus Himself that Mormons according to the Bible don't believe??? That's because you can't. It's the extra stuff doctrines and practices you condemn us for, just because your "Godly" so-called "traditional" Christianity doesn't believe or do certain things. You have no clue the complete brainwashed moron you are. You follow the party line, without a care the origins of your beliefs, that they are of men, false prophets.
leeuniverse 4 months ago
@ldsvideoencyclopedia You have the gal to claim and condemn "us" as following false prophets? Those you follow fit the very definition of false prophet. They/you stand as watchmen, they/you interpret the Word, they/you lead others, and by what authority do you do so? Even when Christ himself was on the earth, he still needed AUTHORIZED SERVANTS. If you actually read your New Testament, you would know and see this. Yet, you think YOU speak for God, and have the right to say we don't? ha ha
leeuniverse 4 months ago
Polaris means Satan in Greek and burning in Latin. It appears that all the stars circle around Polaris but we know that is an optical illusion and symbolizes the the great lie of Satan that tempts mankind to follow him. The shaft of the Great Pyramid of Giza points directly to the star Polaris and symbolizes Satan cast out of Heaven and down to Earth. The Great Pyramid is Temple of God full of symbolism that Abraham taught the Egyptian pharaoh the Gospel in terms of stars and planets
EscapeNewJersey 5 months ago
The LDS is a MONEY making machine they will say anything to keep the flow of CASH coming in . Just to let anybody know Joe smith came to me the other night with 3 golden turds saying take these turds and remember me. As I read the ancient writings on the golden turds I alone can read the writings. All I can say is that all mormons must obay me sayith the 3 golden turds . Well there you have it you can't deny it that what Joe smith said to me . As you know I had to get rid of the 3 golden turds
robbase54 7 months ago
@knowtheonetruegospel Indeed...denial, excuses, spin...all oft-used tools in the LDS Apologist's tool box.
My question is: if you have to "doctor" something to justify or explain it, shouldn't that tell you it's not true?
Obviously, a clear case of "How do we make the facts fit our conclusion?"
wannawatchu66 10 months ago
Excellent Series!
MORONIANGELOFLIGHT 10 months ago
I wonder if it might be an idea, in the blurb above about what this video shows, to point to the Book Of Abraham documentary?
natgalmac 10 months ago