Kucinich is an idiot Dem. of course he backs socialized medicine he would back socialized anything, if you need to see a doctor go to the emergency room just like oh lets see millions of illegal aliens do every year not only do we have accese to health care everybody that can get across a border has access to health care thats one of the reasons we spend so much on healh care. Also where do rich Canadians go for there medical needs they come to the USA to get the best health care in the world.
@LiberalJerseyman Lets look at the issue come here illegaly (1) we support them with free education and health care to the detriment of our own citizens or (2) deportation well I vote (2) makes perfect sense. Oh go to Mexicos southern border and try to get into
@glendaweil Very few Canadians, rich or otherwise, go south for care. Its a typical myth perpetuated by the Ameircan right wing media, ie Fox. Read the study Phantoms in the Snow and educate yourself.
Also, where do all the Average Americans that can't afford insurance or the cost of heathcare go? Not the States.
@richiespice10 have you ever been to canada? What an idiotic thing to say. The Canadians live longer and are healthier than you. Read, get some culture and think your own thoughts before you comment on things you don't understand. Don't let Glen Beck do your thinking for you.
@richiespice10 I live in Canada too. We do have a free market. The select instances of government run institutions have been hugely beneficial (Banks? We didn't have a banking crisis here). It may be a little bloated, but we should by no means view America as a role model for social policy or effective government.
@ignbtd "If you look just at the people who would be able to cover the costs, then more Americans can get MRI scans than Canadians" If you are talking about a total number, yes, more Americans would since they have a larger population. However, when looking at a percapita basis, 100% of Canadians of access to an MRI without worrying about cost, while the same (as you also agree with) cannot be said for Americans. And again, if they can't afford the scan, they can't afford the treatment either.
@ignbtd Invented in the 70's, but not available until the 80's. That would be a decade, not decades, and its use as standard of care started the SAME time in both countries. How many are available is irrelevant to your original claim. Of course, the number of scanner is not as important as the access to one. Millions of AMericans, regardless of the ratio, can't afford to get one let alone the procedure needed to treat the disease the MRI diagnosed.
@ignbtd You claimed that Canada didn't get MRI's until decades after the U.S., when the first MRI scan didn't take place until 1977, with the first commercial MRI being built in 1980. Decades after 1980 would be now, yet we started getting MRI's in Canadian hospitals in 1982. In other words, your claim is bogus.
@ignbtd MRI's Decades after? Did you actually pull that number out of your ass?? The first MRI was even made until the 1970's, with full use of them not until years late. So we aren't even at 'decades' later yet.
The problem seems to be you don't have regulations, at least not as many as the rest of the Western World, where the heathcare system is doing fine... You have a freer market than Europe and Canada, people die in your system because they simply don't receive care.
I'm a Canadian. Our system is largely broken, because the system is out of money. More money = better health care. Simple as that. Don't look at us, look at Europe. The good part of "socialized medicine" is that you will neither be denied nor go bankrupt, doesn't matter what happens, you're covered. Doesn't everyone deserve to be healthy? I think so. (even the GOP who oppose). Spending the money the US is now (socialized med) = best health care, world wide.
@MrShyguy0 Canada's healthcare is not largely broken, nor is it out of money. We've been spending 9 to 11% of GDP on healthcare for a few decades now. Its a myth that there isn't enough money. MOney is nice, but does not guarantee great healthcare.
In BC, there doesn't seem to be enough doctors. My doctor moved to Calgary,AB to take over his father's practice. That was about 3-4 years ago. My family still doesn't have a family doctor. What I think we need is more doctors. I've also had to deal w/ some s**tty waiting times. It's not the greatest, but I can still go to walking clinics for free (missing a whole school day waiting sometimes).
@MrShyguy0 We definitely need more docs, and they have increased medical school enrollment the last 10 years. Unfortunately, it takes years to become a doc, so we have some catch up to do. And yes, we still have walking clinics for access for those 10-15% without a family doc.
It's awesome to have that option. I've had to use it many times in the past 5 yrs. (lost doc 5 yrs ago). The wait times are terrible though. At worst, I've sat in the waiting room for 3-ish hours before seeing the doctor. At best, 5-10 mins. They usu. only have 1 doctor there. More doctors = better health care.
@MrShyguy0 More doctors will at least better access to heathcare that is for sure. I do have a family doc, but on the rare occasion he can't see me, I head to a walk in clinic as well. The worst I've waited is about 1 1/2 hours. Good luck getting the family doc soon.
I'm Canadian with cancer experience and would like to say that this man is a total fraud.Not that the wiser ones didn't already know this.Jesus concurs.
I'm canadian and I love my healthcare system you goddamn republican prick would never consider moving because of you god damn republican pricks (ron paul only good one)
@dylanchainey I don'tthink you would be much of a fan of Ron Paul if you are for universal healthcare or any federal services at all! lol the man thinks the civil rights act is unconcsitutional!
He had every right to be hostile....Mr. Kucinich is asking for a straight answer, not a comment. Not rhetoric, not blah, blah, blah..
Answer the question, period. In any forum, these idiots refuse to answer the question. It's either yes or no, proved facts or 'I don't know" ENOUGH of this pussy footing around!!
The US does not have the most high tech or best quality at all .Different centers offer different specialties .There are very underserviced areas of the USand many centers don;t meet minimum requirements.40 thouseand Americans die every year as a result of having no coverage.Those are your statistics not ours Every center in Canada meets a high register of standard and many far almost all far exceed standards.We have many medical tourist as well.. for good reason
Don't mess with Ron Paul, Dennis Kucinich, or Bernie Sanders. They are true believers in accountability and principles. Despite their ideological differences still share the same patriotic spirit of fighting for the people.
Dr. Gratzer was correct on Canadian Wait times. The Commonwealth Fund's survey found that 51% of Canadian Doctors thought that patients had long waiting times for Diagnostic Tests, vs only 9% in America.
Likewise, 41% of Canadians had to wait 2 months or more to see a specialist. Again, only 9% of Americans had to wait that long.
As far as surgery goes, 25% of Canadians have to wait 4 or more months for surgery, vs only 7% in America.
@aaasssfffdddiii the reason why american wait times are so short is because millions don't have insurance dumb ass. someones health should not be another one profit!
Actually, Canadian wait times are long because the Canadian Health Care system is centralized. Prices are controlled through price controls, which leads to shortages. This is basic economics. Free markets don't have shortages or wait times (At least not nearly as bad as central planning)
@aaasssfffdddiii The Commonwealth Fund consistently ranks the US on the bottom. Overall Canada ranks higher. Also, according to The Commonwealth Fund "Wait Times for Elective Surgery and Specialist Appointments" [2010] 41% of Canadians had to wait less than 4 weeks compared to 80% of Americans. It is the same at 2 months or more for Canadians, 41% but for Americans it does drop to 9%. The fact is that every Canadian has access to health care with longer wait times and Americans don't have access
@aaasssfffdddiii According to The Commonwealth Fund which you used as a source. I haven't looked at Stats Canada numbers. I think Kucinch's point is that these wait times are taken out of context and absolutized rather than looking at the whole system. But that is the only thing that is used by the Right. As far as conclusions, you don't dispute their numbers, but then dispute their conclusions? So its only a valuable source if you can use it to fit in with your view?
@aaasssfffdddiii According to the The Canadian Institute for Health Information (CIHI) "Wait Times in Canada—A Comparison by Province, 2011" . The federal government set benchmarks for wait times had to be met, "[They] express the amount of time that clinical evidence shows is appropriate to wait for a procedure." For most procedures they have reached and exceeded the benchmarks for wait times and are working on constantly improving.
@MushashiMiyamotoSama That is irrelevant if they are "working on constantly improving". They are still much worse off than America, for example. Even the anti American Health Care Commonwealth Fund, found that Americans had much lower wait times in 2010...
@aaasssfffdddiii Those WITH insurance might have had lower waits and that's for non-urgent care. You always seem to forget that. Not to mention, the Commonwealth fund DOES not take into account the time Americans put off before booking that appointment because they couldn't afford it.
@aaasssfffdddiii According to CIHI, for most procedures 75% to 88% of Canadians get to see a doctor in a reasonable amount of time. This is a sampling of a whole population of a country that sees a doctor rather than a sampling of a percentage of people that see a doctor (U.S. case). Also, wait times is only one indicator of a health care system that is measured. So. the US possibly does better for fewer people than Canada. Canada does better in most other areas. And Norway (your source) is #1.
@aaasssfffdddiii Wait times ought not be based on feelings but reason (science). Which they are in Canada. I suppose for those people who can't see a doctor in the US, the Canadian wait times are better than never. Where did you get your quality assessment from? Is that just your feeling? As far as innovation, what do expect from a country that is wealthier than Canada? Their is also innovation in Canada. According to objective standards Canada has an over all highly rated health care system.
@MushashiMiyamotoSama No, I get my quality view from the lower wait times, superior health infrastructure, and more medical innovation that is present in America.
And how about these "objective standards" that put Canada Higher than America. Is this view based on Feelings?
@aaasssfffdddiii Wait times based on science, not surveying people's feelings about it. Also, wait times based on a whole population being served, not just a portion. Superior healthy infrastructure, really? Where is your evidence. Also, more medical innovation? Well I gave you that one to respond with your Norway logic. According to your source, The Commonwealth Fund, Canada scores higher over all. The UK is at 2. The US should be at 1 considering it is the richest and most powerful country.
@aaasssfffdddiii Cans health care system rates higher than the USs. Your argument is typical of your side: find faults with other nation's system (no system is perfect) then declare how the US is better, even though objectively by looking at several indicators it isn't. Also, let's forget the millions of people that can't afford to see a doctor. So the US can't create a system that maintains quality, efficiency and covers everyone? What happened to all that impressive American innovation? US can
@MushashiMiyamotoSama Wait times, shortages, deteriorating quality, and lack of medical innovation are more than simple "flaws"...
America's system is fucked up. You can blame our regulations and socialized Medicare and Medicaid for that. But it is still better than Canada's awful system...
@aaasssfffdddiii Canada doesn't have an awful system. Have you ever even been to Canada? Have you researched medical innovation in Canada? There aren't any shortages, that is false, the quality is always getting better, and there is a lot of medical innovation in Canada, to claim other wise is false. Have you ever heard of he Hospital for Sick Children in Toronto? How on Earth has Medicare and Medicaid screwed up the US's health care? What? It seems your ideology is blinding you.
@aaasssfffdddiii Your ad hominem attack demonstrates the weakness of your position. Wait times =shortages? So if you had to wait longer to get a coke at a busy restaurant compared to non-busy restaurant, it follows that there are shortages? Also, some shortages are outside a HC system's control. There are fewer health care professionals in certain areas of Canada but that has to due with geography, demographics, etc. You really believe that there isn't any innovation in Canada? Come on.
@aaasssfffdddiii That they have an adverse affect on the market is an ideological stance which would be pointless for us to argue. As far as the coke example, no. The supply is there, customers just have to wait longer to get the product, to the supply. Now we got from no medical innovation in Canada to almost no innovation. Which is it? And how are you coming up with this? Canada has over 35 million people, US over 300 million. US is also a wealthier nation, so yes more money for research.
@aaasssfffdddiii You are making Canada out to be a third world country just to justify your position. Exaggerations, or fallacies aren't going to convince anyone of your position. I responded to your post because you used a source to back up your claim. It appeared that you valued reasoned argumentation. Unfortunately, it seems you prefer to engage in name calling, What a shame.
@MushashiMiyamotoSama In the1970s, the energy shortage caused waiting lines. The Sviet union had numerous waiting times because of shortages WAITING TIMES ARE SHORTAGES!!!
I am the one using reason here. In terms of HC, Canada is basically a third world country. This is no hyperbole, this is fact...
@aaasssfffdddiii Yes waiting times can result from a shortage of supply. In the restaurant example, customers have to wait because of the success of the business. It is busy. They are waiting to be served and then are. If the restaurant runs out of coke, then there is a shortage of that item. How are U using reasoning when arguing with fallacies? You aren't. You made a factual claim, "Canada is basically a third world country." Where is your evidence? It isn't a fact because you want it to be.
@aaasssfffdddiii Just to be extra clear with wait times: wait times can be due to shortages or because it is simply busy. In Canada, wait times is due to a whole population having access to health care. And the wait times fall within scientifically accepted wait times for given procedures. Your argument seems to be hinged on wait times. Agains, as if it is the only indicator of a HC system. Objectively Canada has reasonable wait times.
@MushashiMiyamotoSama In a regular Free Market, supply goes up as demand does. But Canada's system is largely state run shortages remain. Compared to the innovative, moder, and quick US system, Canada is thired world...
@aaasssfffdddiii Just because US wait times are better it doesn't follow that Canada's HC system rates the same as a third world Country. The USs infant mortality rate according to the CIA is 177 Canada is 184 and Cuba is 185, by your logic that makes the US a third world country. In an argument, you can't just keep repeating claims that have been challenged or shown to be wrong as if that didn't happen. We went over your unsound definitional claim of "shortages." You have to support your claims
@aaasssfffdddiii You have to support your claims, just repeating the same claims and just saying things, doesn't make them true. It is clear by what you have stated, that your ideological position is all that matters to you, and that you have time for evidence that undermines that ideological position. There isn't any point in continuing this "argument." You believe what you believe because you believe it.
@MushashiMiyamotoSama Um, I have explained that a waiting time means there is not enough supply to meet consumers demands. In a free market, producers increase supply of that item in response to this. In a socialized system, this is not so. The shortages remain.
I never said Canada was a thirld world country. I said, correctly, that Canada's HC system was much closer to a third world system than the high quality US system. As a final note, Infant mortality has nothing do with HC system.
@aaasssfffdddiii Here you go again. I addressed how your claim that wait times necessitates shortages is wrong. There are several causes for wait times and the wait times in this case has nothing to do with the kinds of shortages you wrote about. I also addressed how the wait times are measured by scientific criteria. I used the infant morality rate to demonstrate your illogical claim that Canada's HC system is like a 3rd world system. Following your logic, the US is like a 3rd world country
@MushashiMiyamotoSama No, Infant Mortality, like Life Expectancy, has almost nothing to do with the HC system. Demographics, driving, homicide rate, and eating habits have much more to do with that.
Stop saying you "explained" things you don't understand. A waiting time means there is excess demand for an item. Waiting times ARE shortages. Anytime there is more demand than supply, there is a shortage...
@aaasssfffdddiii When you go to a movie that is popular, and have to wait in line does that mean there is a shortage? Yes, there is a temporary "shortage" of seats, as the new customers have to wait for the old ones to give theirs up. Supply and demand. Or, they could be sold out for the last show. Being busy & sold out = waiting, but it isn't a negative for the businesses involved. Wait times in this case is similar to wait times in Canada. I referred to wait times based on medical science
@aaasssfffdddiii You made a claim that since US wait times are shorter than Canada it follows that Canada's HC system is like a 3rd world country. Using the illogic of this I applied it to another case, infant mortality. By your reasoning then the US in the case of infant morality is similar to a 3rd world country.
@aaasssfffdddiii Your claim that in a socialized system, there isn't any response to shortages is simply wrong. Canada has free markets and is a democracy. It isn't a communist state. Canada has government run utilities, post office, transportation etc. All of these services respond "shortages" and address customer needs. You could make a valid argument that these services would do better if they were privately owned, but your claim that "shortages" aren't addressed doesn't hold up to reality.
@aaasssfffdddiii In the province of Ontario you can only buy spirits through government run stores, LCBO. Do actually believe that if a particular item is selling they aren't going to restock, that mangers aren't managing their inventory? I happen to believe that there should be private liquor stores, and spirits ought to be sold in supermarkets, but I don't support that by making things up about shortages and wait times.
@aaasssfffdddiii You were just proven wrong on the other video that there is a great deal of innovation in Canada.You are just trolling from a losers position . Maddhaabers3 made a total ass of you .Now you want more. You are talking like an upstart debating cold war economics via Saturday morning commics
@aaasssfffdddiii Yes and you are continuing to lose the discusion regarding Singapore I understand Americans fear of government and the corrupt nature of its stucture.I give you that and that is good.You should also consider that medicare in particular is a"Trust"set up with a very reasonable and just purposeThe problem is NOT the fact that it exists it is the fact that your govern't had borrowed repeatedly from these "Trusts" and never returned the funding.Otherwise they would be fully funded
@tindallpe You said that my medical innovation claim was disproven. In fact, my opponent used the examples of Chemotherapy and Insulin as proof that I was wrong. These were both invented before 1984, when Socialized Medicine came into effect in Canada.
The Problem with Medicare is that we have an aging population, an inneficient government, and people who spend way too much because they are removed from the costs. SOCIALISM DOESNT WORK!!!
@aaasssfffdddiii Ever since this debate started in the US the word "SOCIALISM" has become the mantra of evil.For one thing Canada has had unversal medicine since 1964 not 1984.The only thing "socialised " ,if you want tocall it that, is the insurance.Hospitals are corporations in Canada just like in the US.The only difference is they bill government insurance not private.The govern't run insurance does NOT deny coverage as private does in the US.On tat one point alone the system is superior.
@aaasssfffdddiii There are many things about social policy I disagree with regarding welfare and other"entitlements" but healthcare is not an option.We go to foreign countries to help people get medicines and the US system,the only one left in the western world ,denies coverage because of inabilty to pay.Before we discuss anything just think about that for a second............It's wrong And It is inefficient and costly . Aging population is not the problem with medicare
@assffdiiThe problem with your medicare system is that U'r government stole the fucking money from it.Everything else talks around the issue. Sure the demografics show an aging population.If they hadn't borrowed out the money and not returned it this demografic could have been handled by the system. Now these extreme right wing factions want to blame"SOCIALISM". Can U see what horseshit that is?It certainly allows for your private insurance criminals to get their way. Come on.I'm a conservative
@aaasssfffddii You were claiming that almost all research is done in the US.He pointed out that even though many US Biotechs get the credit much of that research is done here in Canada and we have highly active research.That's all.The point is none of that is related to private insurance for delivery of healthcare in the US. There is no shortage of funding for reseach in Canada.Huge corporate, private and government funds are there The arguement is about access which Americans are being denied
@aaasssfffdddiii I told you there are a variety of sources that support research in Canada including private money.The outcomes for rewarding the innovators is the same in Canada.They become extremely wealthy and have a legacy which is more statisfying to the people of science.So open your fricken ears..this is a discussion about access to the system in the US and 1sixth your population doesn't have it and most people with coverage have gross limitatons
@tindallpe Lol, the US has the most High Tech, quick, and high quality system in the world. That really isnt debatable...
It is true that 1/6 of our population does not have full access to the system, but even they have it better than Canadians beacuse even they get free access to our hospitals...
@aaasssfffdddiii We are spending 10%.you are so far behind us you don’t even know you are in the race. Personally, I have everything in regards to healthcare. If you are so convinced you have it better, keep it Your system couldn’t hold a candle to ours and you won’t be able to for at least ten to 15 years and that is only once you figure out how srewed up yours is. How long do you think that will take HHMMM?
@aassfffdi No Canadian would trade your system for ours.Many millions of your people WOULD trade your system for ours.Weare covered.You are not.Our system of healthcare delivery is superior to yours. Over 50% of bankruptcies in the US are due to trying to pay for healthcare.We have zero.One 6/th your population has NO coverage.Here everyone is covered.You have deductibles caps and denials for service.We have exactly zero of that activity.You are spending 16% of your GDP on healthcare.We spend 10
@tindallpe Well, Dr. Gratzer is Canadian, and he would probably trade systems. The same goes for Sally Pipes. And possibly the Thousands of patients who can't get adequate care in Canada so they come to America.
As far the bankrupties go, that statistic has been debunked. I don't have room here, so watch Lee Doren for that one.
And, why are deductibles so bad. I see deductibles as a good thing, as it encourages better cost control among individuals.
@aaasssfffdddiii Of course he would trade systems as he has openned his own clinics in the US because of his ability to bill private insurance companies to the point of gluttony and they don't care because they will just bill you. Did you know 60 thousand Americans couldn't get the care they needed and fruadulenytly crossed the border into Ontario in 2008 to get care?Did you know almost one million Americans go abroad to get the care they can't get at home because of cost and denials?
@aaasssfffdddiii Deductables ARE a bad thing because they are only there to pad insurance company profit.Education is what reduces cost. Urgent care ,walk in clinics, family physicians and other services need to be used as they are in Canada instead of expensive emergency rooms.Your emergency rooms treat much of what should be treated elsewhere in order to reduce cost. People are in your emergency rooms because you don't give them proper alternatives to avoid them
@tindallpe Your last comment was comically stupid. "Deductables ARE a bad thing because they are only there to pad insurance company profit.Education is what reduces cost."
Are you serious?
This really does not even justify a response. Again, open a damn book. Or, even better, look at reality.
That comment, for me, ended this argument. I am done arguing with an ignoramus...
@aaasssfffdddiii So you want to say they are there to reduce use of service? You know you really are a pathetic fool.This arguement is over because you have been mauled on every point of your delusional Glen Beck style perspective.Not ony are you a failure in this argument your country is a failure in the delivery of medicine.You want it ,you keep it. We have what we need in Canada; you don't ,just ask the 50 million Americans that have no coverage.I'll bet your daddy pays for yours
@tindallpe Lol, i am literally talking to another liberal about how no liberal can go through a conversation without bringing up Fox News. And, not surprisingly, you just randomly brought up Glenn Beck. I really don't get the liberal obsession with Fox News?
Anyways, I have won this debate because, unlike you, I understand basic economics and that central planning and socailist dont work....
@aaasssfffdddiii Beck used to try to DEBUNK things.Who the hell uses such a word . You are refering to a command economy vs. free maket capitalism.Again that is not the discussion This is health care administerd by provinces that, as it turns out ,is far more efficient in Canada than in the US. You lose
@tindallpe Lol, Canada is more efficient. I wouldnt call chronic shortages and decaying Health Infrastructure efficient...
Sally Pipes and David Gratzer are a lot more knowledgable than anyone on the left. And they both prefer the US system because, unlike most Canadians, they have experienced both systems and realize how much better the US system actually is...
@aaasssfffdddiii You mean you hope our system is decaying when in fact it improves every year.Your own congressman made a fool out of Gratzer because Gratzer has his own agenda and doesn't mind lying through his teeth.Like I said I am right wing but do beleive in universal coverage without private insurance.Once that is established private clinics would have a place;not before.We would probably have more private clinics in Canada because they are no burden to the taxpayer here.It's just that
@aaasssfffdddiii Well I'm not a wacked out fruitcake nut job evanjelical hypocrite type of right winger like many of you delusinal outcasts down there but I am a consevative and have enough awareness to know that the US is rated 37/th in the world right next to Sloveinia in quality of health care. Sorry to crush you world but the best delivery of medicine goes to France.Socialized medicine. All successful programs for healthcare are state run insurance ,never private without universality first.
@aaasssfffdddiii I will not say services in many areas are not amoungst the best or and maybe even the best there is. Universality will not change that expertise as you fear because those achievements will still be properly funded even through the money saved once private insurance is out of the game which they should have been years ago. They could still fund elite clinics after universality becomes reality They are NOT medical professionals.They do nothing but restrict access and deny claims
@aaasssfffdddiii You also don’t see that hospitals in Canada are also corporations and the desire for efficient operation comes from continuous threat from the public for more and better services. That system also requires benchmarks for achievement. Management is subject to termination On raw numbers for access and cost the US is failing.
@aaasssfffdddiii Listen. Will you please understand that private insurance competes for nothing in medicine but profit from the individual.Research is done by scientists and the academic community and every invention is rewarded via patents.It has nothing to do with private insurance and there are many ways to create incentive for advancement AND...AND private ins for delivery of medicine has absolutely NOTHING to do with it.
@aaasssfffdddiii I can tell you one of the reasons is that international students from all over the world study there because there are excellent universitties.Were I live we've aquired a world renowned Dr from Nashville working at our reseach facilities .He is Asian though.these people aremobile. The funding doesn't need to come from front line screwing of the population
@aaasssfffdddiii Here is a posting for an Australian guy and our system is very similar "I had Hodgkins disease twice. Australia health care was fantastic. Xray, ct scan, chemo, radiation, follow ups scans, blood tests, specialists, drugs, operation to remove 1 lymph gland for biopsy. Total cost with no Wait and no hassles was= $0.00 I paid nothing. ZERO! No corporate bullcrap here. Free health care" Because these systems are in place and could be in th US doesn't mean innovation would suffer
@tindallpe Okay, I really dont see this Australian guy as evidence. Truth be told, I once pretended to be a French guy to try to convince someone that French HC was bad. This was the only time I ever did this sort of thing, but it is quite common on the internet.
I go with statistics, and statistics favor private US HC over other systems...
@aaasssfffdddiii I am only trying to deflect erroneous information about our system and try to point out by way of the Aussi testimonial the way our system normally works. If you scroll down you will see the data.You can choose to use it or not. You say stats favour your system. I'm not going to insult you.I will simply say that is a remarkable statement that you are entitled to believe.I think I've done everything I can here
@aaasssfffdddiii UM, one 6/th of Americans are on a PERMANENT waitng list get that?Survival rates for collerectal cancer,childhood lukemia,kidney transplants and liver transplant are all superior in Canada to the US.We do more bone marrow transplants per 100,000 people than the US. Your in hospital mortality rates are higher2.2% to our 1.4%. 57% of patients in theUS reprocessed dialysis used on them Zero% in Canada.We live longerYou are not superior you are inferior in almost everyway.
@tindallpe Um, overall cancaer survivial is higher in America...
And, bone marrow transplants are cherry picked. Look at more important things like MRIs, CAT Scans, and Mammographs, where America blows Canada out of th water...
@aaasssfffdddiii A decade at least . 25% of your fully insured people are actually restricted from certain things such as MRI's because insurance wont pay.Our national average for diagnostic imaging is three weeks and that can easily be improved as our entire system evolves. Of course some things are more accessible if almost half the population isn't allowed to use it;as in the case with your country.
@aaasssfffdddiii Lets say Canada decided to open exclusive private clinics for one sixth of the population at no cost to the taxpayer, there would then be zero issues here and we could do that with the stroke of a pen. Do you have any idea how difficult it is going to be for the US to get to our level of coverage?
@tindallpe Stop making up random stats. The fact is that America does better in terms of Cancer Survival, Med Tech, Waiting Times, and Med Innovation...
THose are all very important Measures and the US trumps Canada. The only area where Canada does better is waiting times...
@aaasssfffdddiii Are you just here to argue about nothing?.I didn't make up anything Ya fuckin turd. The only thing you should be talking about is how you're going to fix the worst system for delivery for medicine in the modern world
@aaasssfffdddiii I guess you forgot to look at the top of this page with the facts your congressman is trying to tell some of you blind backward people that think you are so good when in fact you are dead last in the western world. it is true innovation is very good in the US.We are talking about delivery.people will innovate without private ins.I' now see what it means to talk to certain Americans Good luck to ya
@aaasssfffdddiii Just saw an article today about a woman in Oregon that has bone cancer.Apparently she is in even more trouble because she is only allowed three garage sales a year because of bylaw restrictions ; that is how she was trying to pay for her treatment. Her name is Jan Cline. What a pathetic joke and there are people defending that system.Shame on you
@aaasssfffdddiii Do you think I would be a proponent to the forcing of individuals to pay for private ins?.What an unbeleivable blunder that is.Again it's the private ins. industry that stopped any proper reform from the outset Now it is a failure and everyone down there thinks that is what universality is all about but it isn't. For all the great things the US can offer in medicine private insurance is a blight on your reputaion.
@aaasssfffdddiii I hardly think better results for kidney transplants and childhood lukemia amoungst many others is "cherry picking".Your system couldn't hold a candle to ours; just ask your own people. I think your system is more of an embarrassment than something to be bragging about
@aaasssfffdddiii Total BS. Actual insured Americans, who pay their insurance companies thousands, are routinely denied MRIs and CAT scans! SO what are they fucking paying for then? The whole American system is a sick joke designed with one thing in mind: maximising the profits of insurance companies at the expense of sick people. US health "system" is the absolute WORST in the developed world and it's something to be ashamed of.
@aaasssfffdddiii i I didn't say you were evangelical and those comments weren't necessarily directed at you unless you are those things.I am not a fan of France but they have the best delivery whether I 'm a fan or not. You don’t seem to be able to separate basic needs for service from the desire to try and align the delivery of healthcare to define capitalistic principals which include the need for profit and will inherently deny coverage to meet that requirement
@aaasssfffdddiii It's just that we already have the largest “Private Clinic “in the world .It’s called the USA and we might even use it if we choose .
@aaasssfffdddiii The Lying FUCK Gratzer is bought and paid for by Cato, along with the LYING Sally Pipes. 90% of Canadians would NEVER take the U.S. system. Lee Doren is also a lying fucking douchbag and knows fuck all. Cherry picking these agenda filled bozos is comical.
@aaasssfffdddiii The Commonwealth Fund's [CF] "Mirror Mirror 2010" ranks the US the lowest over all compared to 6 other nations including Canada. The US spends more for a an inferior health care system. Again, people that can afford to go to a doctor in the US might not to wait as much as the average Canadian, according to CF sats, but every Canadian gets to see a doctor. Maybe Canada doesn't have the best system, but why not look at other countries like Norway that ranks #1 or even the UK?
@assffdi Didyou say only 9%of Americans feel they have long wait times for diagnostic testing?Why don't U tell us how that could be true when 50 million Americans have no health coverage at all?It's a long wait for them would'nt you say?In Canada it IS three weeks because my mother just had an MRI and it took 18 days.She also had colon cancer and was operated on in 5 weeks which included all the testing and analysis Well YOU know what her out of pocket was No you don't want to talk abouthatZERO
@aassfdi Didyou say only 9%of Americans feel they have long wait times for diagnostic testing?Why don't U tell us how that could be true when 50 million Americans have no health coverage at all?It's a long wait for them would'nt you say?In Canada it IS three weeks because my mother just had an MRIand it took 18 days.She also had coloncancer and was operated on in 5 weeks which included all the testing and analysis WellYOU know what her out of pocket was No you don't want to talk abouthat ZERO
@tindallpe Well, I guess since ur mom had that time, that means that all 30 million Canadians had that experience, you must have really done well in statistics. Dumbass...
And, those 50 Million americans can pay out of pocket for hc if they want and they have free access to hospitals. Why don't you open a damn book...
@asffddiii And why don't you stop trying to promote four agenda at the expense your own population you fuckin halfwit.You are trying to discuss ideology when 50 million Americans"The Ones That Are Trying To Get It" can't get health care.There is overwhelming evidece beyond any reasonable argument that private ins doesn't work and you stil lbeat the drum like a like a mindless ass.YOUR leaders are looking for change for a reason; not to" TAKE OVER AMERICA IN THE NAME OF SOCIALISM", YA dam fool
@aaasssfffdddiii It's already been explained If there is an emergency you may wait because of the triage system Priority is first.In the vast majority cases wait times are met to a standard.Not always Surgeons specialists and healthcare staff are very good to excellent You will find complaints in everysystem including oursbut it is cheaper and efficient It could be more efficient but everyone gets it.NO denialsThe doctor bills ins.It happens to govins He gets 100%every time
@aaasssfffdddiii (Comparing Canadian and American Health Care kpbs San Diego) This is an objective view by your PBS station. Just check it out and by all means believe what you like.
@aaasssfffdddiii It's fair to say our debate is over and we agree to disagree. I thought the report was well done and it certainly doesn't always favour the Canadian system .It highlights some excellent ideas that should probably be implemented throughout the US that are the brainchild of the one featured American Administrator. It is the most accurate and reasonable depiction you will get .It’s up to you. Just click it on.I didn't mean to get nasty .There is a lot of mud slinging at our system
@telinit5 I'm a huge fan of Kucinich. FYI he got approx. 3% of the vote in the last Dem. Primary, and the only other supposed Progressive was Sharpton, who's more of an idiot than a Progressive. If memory severs me well, the other Progressive was a a former US Surgeon General that dropped out of the race. Dems hate Kucinich because he is what the Dems should be, and not owned by big business..
i hate it when conservatives lie about canada healthcare to keep getting votes from there retarded base i live in canada and i have never had to wait longer then a day or two for a doctors apointment
this guy who is the witness is a smug little bastard. I'd like to take him outside and beat the living shit out of him. I hate smug kids...fuck you punk!!!
Kucinich is an idiot Dem. of course he backs socialized medicine he would back socialized anything, if you need to see a doctor go to the emergency room just like oh lets see millions of illegal aliens do every year not only do we have accese to health care everybody that can get across a border has access to health care thats one of the reasons we spend so much on healh care. Also where do rich Canadians go for there medical needs they come to the USA to get the best health care in the world.
glendaweil 2 weeks ago
@glendaweil FUck off, racist fascist cunt
LiberalJerseyman 1 week ago
@LiberalJerseyman Typical liberal asshole reponse.
glendaweil 1 week ago
@glendaweil Yup, and your comment was so intelligent. Those filthy spics and niggers are taking our health care!
LiberalJerseyman 1 week ago
@LiberalJerseyman It is easier to put words I never said iin my mouth than come up with an original thought, more typical liberal bs.
glendaweil 1 week ago
@glendaweil As long as we deport the filthy beaners I suppose.
LiberalJerseyman 1 week ago
@LiberalJerseyman Lets look at the issue come here illegaly (1) we support them with free education and health care to the detriment of our own citizens or (2) deportation well I vote (2) makes perfect sense. Oh go to Mexicos southern border and try to get into
there country illegaly and see what happens.
glendaweil 1 week ago
@glendaweil I abandoned any possibility of taking you seriously when you said that you support deporting them. You are a sick fuck.
LiberalJerseyman 1 week ago
@LiberalJerseyman Just how in your twisted world does enforcing laws make me a sick F seems you more accuratly fit that bill.
glendaweil 1 week ago
@glendaweil Very few Canadians, rich or otherwise, go south for care. Its a typical myth perpetuated by the Ameircan right wing media, ie Fox. Read the study Phantoms in the Snow and educate yourself.
Also, where do all the Average Americans that can't afford insurance or the cost of heathcare go? Not the States.
MadHabber93 1 week ago
Gratzer need a lifeline LOL.
Neosaigo 3 weeks ago
why are all the subtitles for TYT videos off by so much
ASRBanshee 1 month ago
Wow, I LOVE Kucinich!
TheFeynmanfan 2 months ago
KUCINCH so owned the arrogant ignorant ASSHOLE
DillonDee1 2 months ago
Perhaps Kucinich should have asked Gratzer if he needed a minute to call a friend for help?
DrownedInExile 2 months ago 5
health care sucks in canada and to the guy below me kicinich is a boss but dr paul is way more realistic
richiespice10 3 months ago
@richiespice10 Too bad 85% of your countrymen don't agree with you.
Beartit69 3 months ago
@richiespice10 have you ever been to canada? What an idiotic thing to say. The Canadians live longer and are healthier than you. Read, get some culture and think your own thoughts before you comment on things you don't understand. Don't let Glen Beck do your thinking for you.
jklarkin 3 months ago 11
@jklarkin i live in canada and i dont listen to glen beck man i just want to have a free market and government to shrink in every sector
richiespice10 3 months ago
@richiespice10 I live in Canada too. We do have a free market. The select instances of government run institutions have been hugely beneficial (Banks? We didn't have a banking crisis here). It may be a little bloated, but we should by no means view America as a role model for social policy or effective government.
DirectInjected 2 months ago 2
Kucinich is a boss...him and dr.Paul in the white house could really help right now
12gaugeG 3 months ago
@ignbtd Agreed.
MadHabber93 4 months ago
@ignbtd Maybe better access for elective care, but they would be the same for urgent care.
MadHabber93 4 months ago
@ignbtd "If you look just at the people who would be able to cover the costs, then more Americans can get MRI scans than Canadians" If you are talking about a total number, yes, more Americans would since they have a larger population. However, when looking at a percapita basis, 100% of Canadians of access to an MRI without worrying about cost, while the same (as you also agree with) cannot be said for Americans. And again, if they can't afford the scan, they can't afford the treatment either.
MadHabber93 4 months ago
@ignbtd Invented in the 70's, but not available until the 80's. That would be a decade, not decades, and its use as standard of care started the SAME time in both countries. How many are available is irrelevant to your original claim. Of course, the number of scanner is not as important as the access to one. Millions of AMericans, regardless of the ratio, can't afford to get one let alone the procedure needed to treat the disease the MRI diagnosed.
MadHabber93 4 months ago
@ignbtd You claimed that Canada didn't get MRI's until decades after the U.S., when the first MRI scan didn't take place until 1977, with the first commercial MRI being built in 1980. Decades after 1980 would be now, yet we started getting MRI's in Canadian hospitals in 1982. In other words, your claim is bogus.
MadHabber93 4 months ago
@ignbtd MRI's Decades after? Did you actually pull that number out of your ass?? The first MRI was even made until the 1970's, with full use of them not until years late. So we aren't even at 'decades' later yet.
MadHabber93 4 months ago
@MadHabber93 Re-read what you put. You indicated 'decades' after. It wasn't even a decade.
MadHabber93 4 months ago
@ignbtd
The problem seems to be you don't have regulations, at least not as many as the rest of the Western World, where the heathcare system is doing fine... You have a freer market than Europe and Canada, people die in your system because they simply don't receive care.
SSTTEEAALLTTHH 4 months ago
I'm a Canadian. Our system is largely broken, because the system is out of money. More money = better health care. Simple as that. Don't look at us, look at Europe. The good part of "socialized medicine" is that you will neither be denied nor go bankrupt, doesn't matter what happens, you're covered. Doesn't everyone deserve to be healthy? I think so. (even the GOP who oppose). Spending the money the US is now (socialized med) = best health care, world wide.
MrShyguy0 4 months ago
@MrShyguy0 Canada's healthcare is not largely broken, nor is it out of money. We've been spending 9 to 11% of GDP on healthcare for a few decades now. Its a myth that there isn't enough money. MOney is nice, but does not guarantee great healthcare.
Beartit69 4 months ago
@Beartit69
In BC, there doesn't seem to be enough doctors. My doctor moved to Calgary,AB to take over his father's practice. That was about 3-4 years ago. My family still doesn't have a family doctor. What I think we need is more doctors. I've also had to deal w/ some s**tty waiting times. It's not the greatest, but I can still go to walking clinics for free (missing a whole school day waiting sometimes).
MrShyguy0 4 months ago
@MrShyguy0 We definitely need more docs, and they have increased medical school enrollment the last 10 years. Unfortunately, it takes years to become a doc, so we have some catch up to do. And yes, we still have walking clinics for access for those 10-15% without a family doc.
Beartit69 4 months ago
@Beartit69
It's awesome to have that option. I've had to use it many times in the past 5 yrs. (lost doc 5 yrs ago). The wait times are terrible though. At worst, I've sat in the waiting room for 3-ish hours before seeing the doctor. At best, 5-10 mins. They usu. only have 1 doctor there. More doctors = better health care.
MrShyguy0 4 months ago
@MrShyguy0 More doctors will at least better access to heathcare that is for sure. I do have a family doc, but on the rare occasion he can't see me, I head to a walk in clinic as well. The worst I've waited is about 1 1/2 hours. Good luck getting the family doc soon.
Beartit69 4 months ago
@Beartit69
Thanks.
MrShyguy0 4 months ago
I'm Canadian with cancer experience and would like to say that this man is a total fraud.Not that the wiser ones didn't already know this.Jesus concurs.
Peace my American Brothers and sisters.
bozolazic 4 months ago
I'm canadian and I love my healthcare system you goddamn republican prick would never consider moving because of you god damn republican pricks (ron paul only good one)
dylanchainey 5 months ago
@dylanchainey I don'tthink you would be much of a fan of Ron Paul if you are for universal healthcare or any federal services at all! lol the man thinks the civil rights act is unconcsitutional!
durhamdf 4 months ago
He had every right to be hostile....Mr. Kucinich is asking for a straight answer, not a comment. Not rhetoric, not blah, blah, blah..
Answer the question, period. In any forum, these idiots refuse to answer the question. It's either yes or no, proved facts or 'I don't know" ENOUGH of this pussy footing around!!
I'm not buying it!
etonks 5 months ago 2
The US does not have the most high tech or best quality at all .Different centers offer different specialties .There are very underserviced areas of the USand many centers don;t meet minimum requirements.40 thouseand Americans die every year as a result of having no coverage.Those are your statistics not ours Every center in Canada meets a high register of standard and many far almost all far exceed standards.We have many medical tourist as well.. for good reason
tindallpe 5 months ago
the subtitles are hilarious
M0j0S0D0pe420 6 months ago
Lying in front of Kucinich is asking for trouble.
Don't mess with Ron Paul, Dennis Kucinich, or Bernie Sanders. They are true believers in accountability and principles. Despite their ideological differences still share the same patriotic spirit of fighting for the people.
Neosaigo 6 months ago 7
Dr. Gratzer was correct on Canadian Wait times. The Commonwealth Fund's survey found that 51% of Canadian Doctors thought that patients had long waiting times for Diagnostic Tests, vs only 9% in America.
Likewise, 41% of Canadians had to wait 2 months or more to see a specialist. Again, only 9% of Americans had to wait that long.
As far as surgery goes, 25% of Canadians have to wait 4 or more months for surgery, vs only 7% in America.
Kucinich can't change facts...
aaasssfffdddiii 7 months ago
@aaasssfffdddiii the reason why american wait times are so short is because millions don't have insurance dumb ass. someones health should not be another one profit!
TheCanadaBoi 6 months ago
@TheCanadaBoi Really?
Actually, Canadian wait times are long because the Canadian Health Care system is centralized. Prices are controlled through price controls, which leads to shortages. This is basic economics. Free markets don't have shortages or wait times (At least not nearly as bad as central planning)
aaasssfffdddiii 6 months ago
@aaasssfffdddiii The Commonwealth Fund consistently ranks the US on the bottom. Overall Canada ranks higher. Also, according to The Commonwealth Fund "Wait Times for Elective Surgery and Specialist Appointments" [2010] 41% of Canadians had to wait less than 4 weeks compared to 80% of Americans. It is the same at 2 months or more for Canadians, 41% but for Americans it does drop to 9%. The fact is that every Canadian has access to health care with longer wait times and Americans don't have access
MushashiMiyamotoSama 5 months ago
@MushashiMiyamotoSama Okay, so we agree that Canadians have longer waits than Americans?
The Commonwealth Fund can come to whatever conclusions they want, but even their numbers show very l long wait times in Canada.
aaasssfffdddiii 5 months ago
@aaasssfffdddiii According to The Commonwealth Fund which you used as a source. I haven't looked at Stats Canada numbers. I think Kucinch's point is that these wait times are taken out of context and absolutized rather than looking at the whole system. But that is the only thing that is used by the Right. As far as conclusions, you don't dispute their numbers, but then dispute their conclusions? So its only a valuable source if you can use it to fit in with your view?
MushashiMiyamotoSama 5 months ago
@aaasssfffdddiii According to the The Canadian Institute for Health Information (CIHI) "Wait Times in Canada—A Comparison by Province, 2011" . The federal government set benchmarks for wait times had to be met, "[They] express the amount of time that clinical evidence shows is appropriate to wait for a procedure." For most procedures they have reached and exceeded the benchmarks for wait times and are working on constantly improving.
MushashiMiyamotoSama 5 months ago
@MushashiMiyamotoSama That is irrelevant if they are "working on constantly improving". They are still much worse off than America, for example. Even the anti American Health Care Commonwealth Fund, found that Americans had much lower wait times in 2010...
aaasssfffdddiii 5 months ago
@aaasssfffdddiii Those WITH insurance might have had lower waits and that's for non-urgent care. You always seem to forget that. Not to mention, the Commonwealth fund DOES not take into account the time Americans put off before booking that appointment because they couldn't afford it.
MadHabber93 5 months ago
@aaasssfffdddiii According to CIHI, for most procedures 75% to 88% of Canadians get to see a doctor in a reasonable amount of time. This is a sampling of a whole population of a country that sees a doctor rather than a sampling of a percentage of people that see a doctor (U.S. case). Also, wait times is only one indicator of a health care system that is measured. So. the US possibly does better for fewer people than Canada. Canada does better in most other areas. And Norway (your source) is #1.
MushashiMiyamotoSama 5 months ago
@MushashiMiyamotoSama By American Standards, Canadian wait times are certainly not "reasonable". Maybe they're okay for Canadians...
Norway,... I would hope that an Oil Rich Country would do well. If not, there is something severely wrong.
As for another area, try quality and medical innovation,, where America blows canada out of the water..
aaasssfffdddiii 5 months ago
@aaasssfffdddiii Wait times ought not be based on feelings but reason (science). Which they are in Canada. I suppose for those people who can't see a doctor in the US, the Canadian wait times are better than never. Where did you get your quality assessment from? Is that just your feeling? As far as innovation, what do expect from a country that is wealthier than Canada? Their is also innovation in Canada. According to objective standards Canada has an over all highly rated health care system.
MushashiMiyamotoSama 5 months ago
@MushashiMiyamotoSama No, I get my quality view from the lower wait times, superior health infrastructure, and more medical innovation that is present in America.
And how about these "objective standards" that put Canada Higher than America. Is this view based on Feelings?
aaasssfffdddiii 5 months ago
@aaasssfffdddiii Wait times based on science, not surveying people's feelings about it. Also, wait times based on a whole population being served, not just a portion. Superior healthy infrastructure, really? Where is your evidence. Also, more medical innovation? Well I gave you that one to respond with your Norway logic. According to your source, The Commonwealth Fund, Canada scores higher over all. The UK is at 2. The US should be at 1 considering it is the richest and most powerful country.
MushashiMiyamotoSama 5 months ago
@aaasssfffdddiii Cans health care system rates higher than the USs. Your argument is typical of your side: find faults with other nation's system (no system is perfect) then declare how the US is better, even though objectively by looking at several indicators it isn't. Also, let's forget the millions of people that can't afford to see a doctor. So the US can't create a system that maintains quality, efficiency and covers everyone? What happened to all that impressive American innovation? US can
MushashiMiyamotoSama 5 months ago
@MushashiMiyamotoSama Wait times, shortages, deteriorating quality, and lack of medical innovation are more than simple "flaws"...
America's system is fucked up. You can blame our regulations and socialized Medicare and Medicaid for that. But it is still better than Canada's awful system...
aaasssfffdddiii 5 months ago
@aaasssfffdddiii Canada doesn't have an awful system. Have you ever even been to Canada? Have you researched medical innovation in Canada? There aren't any shortages, that is false, the quality is always getting better, and there is a lot of medical innovation in Canada, to claim other wise is false. Have you ever heard of he Hospital for Sick Children in Toronto? How on Earth has Medicare and Medicaid screwed up the US's health care? What? It seems your ideology is blinding you.
MushashiMiyamotoSama 5 months ago
@MushashiMiyamotoSama Hey Retard, Waiting Times ARE shortages... I can't medical Innovation in Canada because it doesnt exist...
Medicare and Medicaid distorted the free market...
aaasssfffdddiii 5 months ago
@aaasssfffdddiii Your ad hominem attack demonstrates the weakness of your position. Wait times =shortages? So if you had to wait longer to get a coke at a busy restaurant compared to non-busy restaurant, it follows that there are shortages? Also, some shortages are outside a HC system's control. There are fewer health care professionals in certain areas of Canada but that has to due with geography, demographics, etc. You really believe that there isn't any innovation in Canada? Come on.
MushashiMiyamotoSama 5 months ago
@aaasssfffdddiii Medicare and Medicaid distorting the free market is simply an ideological position.
MushashiMiyamotoSama 5 months ago
@MushashiMiyamotoSama How so?
Are you trying to argue that Medicare and Medicaid are part of the Free Market?
As for the Coke, yes that would be what a shortage is. There is more demand than supply...
There is Almost no medical Innovation from Canada, but it is all over the place in America...
If so, you really are hopeless...
aaasssfffdddiii 5 months ago
@aaasssfffdddiii That they have an adverse affect on the market is an ideological stance which would be pointless for us to argue. As far as the coke example, no. The supply is there, customers just have to wait longer to get the product, to the supply. Now we got from no medical innovation in Canada to almost no innovation. Which is it? And how are you coming up with this? Canada has over 35 million people, US over 300 million. US is also a wealthier nation, so yes more money for research.
MushashiMiyamotoSama 5 months ago
@aaasssfffdddiii You are making Canada out to be a third world country just to justify your position. Exaggerations, or fallacies aren't going to convince anyone of your position. I responded to your post because you used a source to back up your claim. It appeared that you valued reasoned argumentation. Unfortunately, it seems you prefer to engage in name calling, What a shame.
MushashiMiyamotoSama 5 months ago
@MushashiMiyamotoSama In the1970s, the energy shortage caused waiting lines. The Sviet union had numerous waiting times because of shortages WAITING TIMES ARE SHORTAGES!!!
I am the one using reason here. In terms of HC, Canada is basically a third world country. This is no hyperbole, this is fact...
aaasssfffdddiii 5 months ago
@aaasssfffdddiii Yes waiting times can result from a shortage of supply. In the restaurant example, customers have to wait because of the success of the business. It is busy. They are waiting to be served and then are. If the restaurant runs out of coke, then there is a shortage of that item. How are U using reasoning when arguing with fallacies? You aren't. You made a factual claim, "Canada is basically a third world country." Where is your evidence? It isn't a fact because you want it to be.
MushashiMiyamotoSama 5 months ago
@aaasssfffdddiii Just to be extra clear with wait times: wait times can be due to shortages or because it is simply busy. In Canada, wait times is due to a whole population having access to health care. And the wait times fall within scientifically accepted wait times for given procedures. Your argument seems to be hinged on wait times. Agains, as if it is the only indicator of a HC system. Objectively Canada has reasonable wait times.
MushashiMiyamotoSama 5 months ago
@MushashiMiyamotoSama In a regular Free Market, supply goes up as demand does. But Canada's system is largely state run shortages remain. Compared to the innovative, moder, and quick US system, Canada is thired world...
aaasssfffdddiii 5 months ago
@aaasssfffdddiii Just because US wait times are better it doesn't follow that Canada's HC system rates the same as a third world Country. The USs infant mortality rate according to the CIA is 177 Canada is 184 and Cuba is 185, by your logic that makes the US a third world country. In an argument, you can't just keep repeating claims that have been challenged or shown to be wrong as if that didn't happen. We went over your unsound definitional claim of "shortages." You have to support your claims
MushashiMiyamotoSama 5 months ago
@aaasssfffdddiii You have to support your claims, just repeating the same claims and just saying things, doesn't make them true. It is clear by what you have stated, that your ideological position is all that matters to you, and that you have time for evidence that undermines that ideological position. There isn't any point in continuing this "argument." You believe what you believe because you believe it.
MushashiMiyamotoSama 5 months ago
@MushashiMiyamotoSama Um, I have explained that a waiting time means there is not enough supply to meet consumers demands. In a free market, producers increase supply of that item in response to this. In a socialized system, this is not so. The shortages remain.
I never said Canada was a thirld world country. I said, correctly, that Canada's HC system was much closer to a third world system than the high quality US system. As a final note, Infant mortality has nothing do with HC system.
aaasssfffdddiii 5 months ago
@aaasssfffdddiii Here you go again. I addressed how your claim that wait times necessitates shortages is wrong. There are several causes for wait times and the wait times in this case has nothing to do with the kinds of shortages you wrote about. I also addressed how the wait times are measured by scientific criteria. I used the infant morality rate to demonstrate your illogical claim that Canada's HC system is like a 3rd world system. Following your logic, the US is like a 3rd world country
MushashiMiyamotoSama 5 months ago
@MushashiMiyamotoSama No, Infant Mortality, like Life Expectancy, has almost nothing to do with the HC system. Demographics, driving, homicide rate, and eating habits have much more to do with that.
Stop saying you "explained" things you don't understand. A waiting time means there is excess demand for an item. Waiting times ARE shortages. Anytime there is more demand than supply, there is a shortage...
Open a damn economics book!!!
aaasssfffdddiii 5 months ago
@aaasssfffdddiii When you go to a movie that is popular, and have to wait in line does that mean there is a shortage? Yes, there is a temporary "shortage" of seats, as the new customers have to wait for the old ones to give theirs up. Supply and demand. Or, they could be sold out for the last show. Being busy & sold out = waiting, but it isn't a negative for the businesses involved. Wait times in this case is similar to wait times in Canada. I referred to wait times based on medical science
MushashiMiyamotoSama 5 months ago
@aaasssfffdddiii You made a claim that since US wait times are shorter than Canada it follows that Canada's HC system is like a 3rd world country. Using the illogic of this I applied it to another case, infant mortality. By your reasoning then the US in the case of infant morality is similar to a 3rd world country.
MushashiMiyamotoSama 5 months ago
@aaasssfffdddiii Your claim that in a socialized system, there isn't any response to shortages is simply wrong. Canada has free markets and is a democracy. It isn't a communist state. Canada has government run utilities, post office, transportation etc. All of these services respond "shortages" and address customer needs. You could make a valid argument that these services would do better if they were privately owned, but your claim that "shortages" aren't addressed doesn't hold up to reality.
MushashiMiyamotoSama 5 months ago
@aaasssfffdddiii In the province of Ontario you can only buy spirits through government run stores, LCBO. Do actually believe that if a particular item is selling they aren't going to restock, that mangers aren't managing their inventory? I happen to believe that there should be private liquor stores, and spirits ought to be sold in supermarkets, but I don't support that by making things up about shortages and wait times.
MushashiMiyamotoSama 5 months ago
@aaasssfffdddiii correction: You don't have time for evidence that undermines your idealogical position.
MushashiMiyamotoSama 5 months ago
@aaasssfffdddiii You were just proven wrong on the other video that there is a great deal of innovation in Canada.You are just trolling from a losers position . Maddhaabers3 made a total ass of you .Now you want more. You are talking like an upstart debating cold war economics via Saturday morning commics
tindallpe 5 months ago
@tindallpe ROFL, "proven wrong...
Wouldnt he need proof to do that...
aaasssfffdddiii 5 months ago
@aaasssfffdddiii Yes and you are continuing to lose the discusion regarding Singapore I understand Americans fear of government and the corrupt nature of its stucture.I give you that and that is good.You should also consider that medicare in particular is a"Trust"set up with a very reasonable and just purposeThe problem is NOT the fact that it exists it is the fact that your govern't had borrowed repeatedly from these "Trusts" and never returned the funding.Otherwise they would be fully funded
tindallpe 5 months ago
@tindallpe You said that my medical innovation claim was disproven. In fact, my opponent used the examples of Chemotherapy and Insulin as proof that I was wrong. These were both invented before 1984, when Socialized Medicine came into effect in Canada.
The Problem with Medicare is that we have an aging population, an inneficient government, and people who spend way too much because they are removed from the costs. SOCIALISM DOESNT WORK!!!
aaasssfffdddiii 5 months ago
@aaasssfffdddiii Ever since this debate started in the US the word "SOCIALISM" has become the mantra of evil.For one thing Canada has had unversal medicine since 1964 not 1984.The only thing "socialised " ,if you want tocall it that, is the insurance.Hospitals are corporations in Canada just like in the US.The only difference is they bill government insurance not private.The govern't run insurance does NOT deny coverage as private does in the US.On tat one point alone the system is superior.
tindallpe 5 months ago
@aaasssfffdddiii There are many things about social policy I disagree with regarding welfare and other"entitlements" but healthcare is not an option.We go to foreign countries to help people get medicines and the US system,the only one left in the western world ,denies coverage because of inabilty to pay.Before we discuss anything just think about that for a second............It's wrong And It is inefficient and costly . Aging population is not the problem with medicare
tindallpe 5 months ago
@assffdiiThe problem with your medicare system is that U'r government stole the fucking money from it.Everything else talks around the issue. Sure the demografics show an aging population.If they hadn't borrowed out the money and not returned it this demografic could have been handled by the system. Now these extreme right wing factions want to blame"SOCIALISM". Can U see what horseshit that is?It certainly allows for your private insurance criminals to get their way. Come on.I'm a conservative
tindallpe 5 months ago
@aaasssfffddii You were claiming that almost all research is done in the US.He pointed out that even though many US Biotechs get the credit much of that research is done here in Canada and we have highly active research.That's all.The point is none of that is related to private insurance for delivery of healthcare in the US. There is no shortage of funding for reseach in Canada.Huge corporate, private and government funds are there The arguement is about access which Americans are being denied
tindallpe 5 months ago
@tindallpe It is. Government funding does not help innovation. Only the private market leads to innovation. Open a damn history or economics book!!!
aaasssfffdddiii 5 months ago
@aaasssfffdddiii I told you there are a variety of sources that support research in Canada including private money.The outcomes for rewarding the innovators is the same in Canada.They become extremely wealthy and have a legacy which is more statisfying to the people of science.So open your fricken ears..this is a discussion about access to the system in the US and 1sixth your population doesn't have it and most people with coverage have gross limitatons
tindallpe 5 months ago
@tindallpe Lol, the US has the most High Tech, quick, and high quality system in the world. That really isnt debatable...
It is true that 1/6 of our population does not have full access to the system, but even they have it better than Canadians beacuse even they get free access to our hospitals...
aaasssfffdddiii 5 months ago
@aaasssfffdddiii We are spending 10%.you are so far behind us you don’t even know you are in the race. Personally, I have everything in regards to healthcare. If you are so convinced you have it better, keep it Your system couldn’t hold a candle to ours and you won’t be able to for at least ten to 15 years and that is only once you figure out how srewed up yours is. How long do you think that will take HHMMM?
tindallpe 5 months ago
@aassfffdi No Canadian would trade your system for ours.Many millions of your people WOULD trade your system for ours.Weare covered.You are not.Our system of healthcare delivery is superior to yours. Over 50% of bankruptcies in the US are due to trying to pay for healthcare.We have zero.One 6/th your population has NO coverage.Here everyone is covered.You have deductibles caps and denials for service.We have exactly zero of that activity.You are spending 16% of your GDP on healthcare.We spend 10
tindallpe 5 months ago
@tindallpe Well, Dr. Gratzer is Canadian, and he would probably trade systems. The same goes for Sally Pipes. And possibly the Thousands of patients who can't get adequate care in Canada so they come to America.
As far the bankrupties go, that statistic has been debunked. I don't have room here, so watch Lee Doren for that one.
And, why are deductibles so bad. I see deductibles as a good thing, as it encourages better cost control among individuals.
aaasssfffdddiii 5 months ago
@aaasssfffdddiii Of course he would trade systems as he has openned his own clinics in the US because of his ability to bill private insurance companies to the point of gluttony and they don't care because they will just bill you. Did you know 60 thousand Americans couldn't get the care they needed and fruadulenytly crossed the border into Ontario in 2008 to get care?Did you know almost one million Americans go abroad to get the care they can't get at home because of cost and denials?
tindallpe 5 months ago
@aaasssfffdddiii Deductables ARE a bad thing because they are only there to pad insurance company profit.Education is what reduces cost. Urgent care ,walk in clinics, family physicians and other services need to be used as they are in Canada instead of expensive emergency rooms.Your emergency rooms treat much of what should be treated elsewhere in order to reduce cost. People are in your emergency rooms because you don't give them proper alternatives to avoid them
tindallpe 5 months ago
@tindallpe Your last comment was comically stupid. "Deductables ARE a bad thing because they are only there to pad insurance company profit.Education is what reduces cost."
Are you serious?
This really does not even justify a response. Again, open a damn book. Or, even better, look at reality.
That comment, for me, ended this argument. I am done arguing with an ignoramus...
aaasssfffdddiii 5 months ago
@aaasssfffdddiii So you want to say they are there to reduce use of service? You know you really are a pathetic fool.This arguement is over because you have been mauled on every point of your delusional Glen Beck style perspective.Not ony are you a failure in this argument your country is a failure in the delivery of medicine.You want it ,you keep it. We have what we need in Canada; you don't ,just ask the 50 million Americans that have no coverage.I'll bet your daddy pays for yours
tindallpe 5 months ago
@aaasssfffdddiii That is meant to mean basic education in knowing what services to use other than emergency but again you don't have any alternatives
tindallpe 5 months ago
@tindallpe Lol, i am literally talking to another liberal about how no liberal can go through a conversation without bringing up Fox News. And, not surprisingly, you just randomly brought up Glenn Beck. I really don't get the liberal obsession with Fox News?
Anyways, I have won this debate because, unlike you, I understand basic economics and that central planning and socailist dont work....
aaasssfffdddiii 5 months ago
@aaasssfffdddiii Beck used to try to DEBUNK things.Who the hell uses such a word . You are refering to a command economy vs. free maket capitalism.Again that is not the discussion This is health care administerd by provinces that, as it turns out ,is far more efficient in Canada than in the US. You lose
tindallpe 5 months ago
@tindallpe Lol, Canada is more efficient. I wouldnt call chronic shortages and decaying Health Infrastructure efficient...
Sally Pipes and David Gratzer are a lot more knowledgable than anyone on the left. And they both prefer the US system because, unlike most Canadians, they have experienced both systems and realize how much better the US system actually is...
aaasssfffdddiii 5 months ago
@aaasssfffdddiii You mean you hope our system is decaying when in fact it improves every year.Your own congressman made a fool out of Gratzer because Gratzer has his own agenda and doesn't mind lying through his teeth.Like I said I am right wing but do beleive in universal coverage without private insurance.Once that is established private clinics would have a place;not before.We would probably have more private clinics in Canada because they are no burden to the taxpayer here.It's just that
tindallpe 5 months ago
@tindallpe Lol, you are not right wing. And, even more comically, it was Kucinich who was lying and Gratzer who was correct.
Anyways, no right wing person would be stupid enough and blind enough to evidence to support the failure they called socialized medicine...
And, many Canadians do chose to go the US because Canadas system is so awful...
aaasssfffdddiii 5 months ago
@aaasssfffdddiii Well I'm not a wacked out fruitcake nut job evanjelical hypocrite type of right winger like many of you delusinal outcasts down there but I am a consevative and have enough awareness to know that the US is rated 37/th in the world right next to Sloveinia in quality of health care. Sorry to crush you world but the best delivery of medicine goes to France.Socialized medicine. All successful programs for healthcare are state run insurance ,never private without universality first.
tindallpe 5 months ago
@tindallpe Um, what exactly makes you think I am Evangelical?
Religion has not even been brought up here. I am Christian, but I do not even attend a Church...
And, if you were a real conservative, you would know A) that that WHO Ranking of the world systems is not only outdated, but also complete bull shit
B) And more importantly, that socialized medicine defies all the laws of economics...
(even more importantly, I have never met a conservative who is a big fan of France...)
aaasssfffdddiii 5 months ago
@aaasssfffdddiii I will not say services in many areas are not amoungst the best or and maybe even the best there is. Universality will not change that expertise as you fear because those achievements will still be properly funded even through the money saved once private insurance is out of the game which they should have been years ago. They could still fund elite clinics after universality becomes reality They are NOT medical professionals.They do nothing but restrict access and deny claims
tindallpe 5 months ago
@aaasssfffdddiii You also don’t see that hospitals in Canada are also corporations and the desire for efficient operation comes from continuous threat from the public for more and better services. That system also requires benchmarks for achievement. Management is subject to termination On raw numbers for access and cost the US is failing.
tindallpe 5 months ago
@tindallpe That WHO ranking is from 2000 and is total bullshit. It is based on completely arbitrary standards...
The fact is that medical innovation does not take place under socialized systems. Only private individuals pursuing profit brings taht...
aaasssfffdddiii 5 months ago
@aaasssfffdddiii Listen. Will you please understand that private insurance competes for nothing in medicine but profit from the individual.Research is done by scientists and the academic community and every invention is rewarded via patents.It has nothing to do with private insurance and there are many ways to create incentive for advancement AND...AND private ins for delivery of medicine has absolutely NOTHING to do with it.
tindallpe 5 months ago
@tindallpe There is a reason that the largely private US system is by far the most innovative in the world..
aaasssfffdddiii 5 months ago
@aaasssfffdddiii I can tell you one of the reasons is that international students from all over the world study there because there are excellent universitties.Were I live we've aquired a world renowned Dr from Nashville working at our reseach facilities .He is Asian though.these people aremobile. The funding doesn't need to come from front line screwing of the population
tindallpe 5 months ago
@aaasssfffdddiii Here is a posting for an Australian guy and our system is very similar "I had Hodgkins disease twice. Australia health care was fantastic. Xray, ct scan, chemo, radiation, follow ups scans, blood tests, specialists, drugs, operation to remove 1 lymph gland for biopsy. Total cost with no Wait and no hassles was= $0.00 I paid nothing. ZERO! No corporate bullcrap here. Free health care" Because these systems are in place and could be in th US doesn't mean innovation would suffer
tindallpe 5 months ago
@tindallpe Okay, I really dont see this Australian guy as evidence. Truth be told, I once pretended to be a French guy to try to convince someone that French HC was bad. This was the only time I ever did this sort of thing, but it is quite common on the internet.
I go with statistics, and statistics favor private US HC over other systems...
aaasssfffdddiii 5 months ago
@aaasssfffdddiii I am only trying to deflect erroneous information about our system and try to point out by way of the Aussi testimonial the way our system normally works. If you scroll down you will see the data.You can choose to use it or not. You say stats favour your system. I'm not going to insult you.I will simply say that is a remarkable statement that you are entitled to believe.I think I've done everything I can here
tindallpe 5 months ago
@tindallpe Um, Looking at Med Tech, Med Innovation, Waiting Times, Cancer Survival, etc ... America is markedly superior to Canada...
aaasssfffdddiii 5 months ago
@aaasssfffdddiii UM, one 6/th of Americans are on a PERMANENT waitng list get that?Survival rates for collerectal cancer,childhood lukemia,kidney transplants and liver transplant are all superior in Canada to the US.We do more bone marrow transplants per 100,000 people than the US. Your in hospital mortality rates are higher2.2% to our 1.4%. 57% of patients in theUS reprocessed dialysis used on them Zero% in Canada.We live longerYou are not superior you are inferior in almost everyway.
tindallpe 5 months ago
@tindallpe Um, overall cancaer survivial is higher in America...
And, bone marrow transplants are cherry picked. Look at more important things like MRIs, CAT Scans, and Mammographs, where America blows Canada out of th water...
aaasssfffdddiii 5 months ago
@aaasssfffdddiii A decade at least . 25% of your fully insured people are actually restricted from certain things such as MRI's because insurance wont pay.Our national average for diagnostic imaging is three weeks and that can easily be improved as our entire system evolves. Of course some things are more accessible if almost half the population isn't allowed to use it;as in the case with your country.
tindallpe 5 months ago
@aaasssfffdddiii Lets say Canada decided to open exclusive private clinics for one sixth of the population at no cost to the taxpayer, there would then be zero issues here and we could do that with the stroke of a pen. Do you have any idea how difficult it is going to be for the US to get to our level of coverage?
tindallpe 5 months ago
@tindallpe Stop making up random stats. The fact is that America does better in terms of Cancer Survival, Med Tech, Waiting Times, and Med Innovation...
THose are all very important Measures and the US trumps Canada. The only area where Canada does better is waiting times...
aaasssfffdddiii 5 months ago
@aaasssfffdddiii Are you just here to argue about nothing?.I didn't make up anything Ya fuckin turd. The only thing you should be talking about is how you're going to fix the worst system for delivery for medicine in the modern world
tindallpe 5 months ago
@tindallpe Ya, I am talking about how to fix Canada, which is the worst system in the world. Well, let's be fair. Britain is pretty bad too.
And, it is comical that you would call the most innovative and up to date system the "worst in the developed world"
Don't make me laugh...
aaasssfffdddiii 5 months ago
@aaasssfffdddiii I guess you forgot to look at the top of this page with the facts your congressman is trying to tell some of you blind backward people that think you are so good when in fact you are dead last in the western world. it is true innovation is very good in the US.We are talking about delivery.people will innovate without private ins.I' now see what it means to talk to certain Americans Good luck to ya
tindallpe 5 months ago
@tindallpe His stats are, oh what do you call it, Bull Shit. American Health Care is better, but socialists ignore reality...
aaasssfffdddiii 5 months ago
@aaasssfffdddiii Just saw an article today about a woman in Oregon that has bone cancer.Apparently she is in even more trouble because she is only allowed three garage sales a year because of bylaw restrictions ; that is how she was trying to pay for her treatment. Her name is Jan Cline. What a pathetic joke and there are people defending that system.Shame on you
tindallpe 5 months ago
@tindallpe I thought Obamacare was supposed to fix that. I guess not...
aaasssfffdddiii 5 months ago
@aaasssfffdddiii Do you think I would be a proponent to the forcing of individuals to pay for private ins?.What an unbeleivable blunder that is.Again it's the private ins. industry that stopped any proper reform from the outset Now it is a failure and everyone down there thinks that is what universality is all about but it isn't. For all the great things the US can offer in medicine private insurance is a blight on your reputaion.
tindallpe 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@tindallpe Whatever. you are obviously immune to facts...
aaasssfffdddiii 5 months ago
@aaasssfffdddiii I hardly think better results for kidney transplants and childhood lukemia amoungst many others is "cherry picking".Your system couldn't hold a candle to ours; just ask your own people. I think your system is more of an embarrassment than something to be bragging about
tindallpe 5 months ago
@aaasssfffdddiii Total BS. Actual insured Americans, who pay their insurance companies thousands, are routinely denied MRIs and CAT scans! SO what are they fucking paying for then? The whole American system is a sick joke designed with one thing in mind: maximising the profits of insurance companies at the expense of sick people. US health "system" is the absolute WORST in the developed world and it's something to be ashamed of.
leizuoer 5 months ago
@aaasssfffdddiii i I didn't say you were evangelical and those comments weren't necessarily directed at you unless you are those things.I am not a fan of France but they have the best delivery whether I 'm a fan or not. You don’t seem to be able to separate basic needs for service from the desire to try and align the delivery of healthcare to define capitalistic principals which include the need for profit and will inherently deny coverage to meet that requirement
tindallpe 5 months ago
@aaasssfffdddiii It's just that we already have the largest “Private Clinic “in the world .It’s called the USA and we might even use it if we choose .
tindallpe 5 months ago
@aaasssfffdddiii The Lying FUCK Gratzer is bought and paid for by Cato, along with the LYING Sally Pipes. 90% of Canadians would NEVER take the U.S. system. Lee Doren is also a lying fucking douchbag and knows fuck all. Cherry picking these agenda filled bozos is comical.
Get better NON-BIASED examples sunshine.
MadHabber93 5 months ago
@aaasssfffdddiii The Commonwealth Fund's [CF] "Mirror Mirror 2010" ranks the US the lowest over all compared to 6 other nations including Canada. The US spends more for a an inferior health care system. Again, people that can afford to go to a doctor in the US might not to wait as much as the average Canadian, according to CF sats, but every Canadian gets to see a doctor. Maybe Canada doesn't have the best system, but why not look at other countries like Norway that ranks #1 or even the UK?
MushashiMiyamotoSama 5 months ago
@assffdi Didyou say only 9%of Americans feel they have long wait times for diagnostic testing?Why don't U tell us how that could be true when 50 million Americans have no health coverage at all?It's a long wait for them would'nt you say?In Canada it IS three weeks because my mother just had an MRI and it took 18 days.She also had colon cancer and was operated on in 5 weeks which included all the testing and analysis Well YOU know what her out of pocket was No you don't want to talk abouthatZERO
tindallpe 5 months ago
@aassfdi Didyou say only 9%of Americans feel they have long wait times for diagnostic testing?Why don't U tell us how that could be true when 50 million Americans have no health coverage at all?It's a long wait for them would'nt you say?In Canada it IS three weeks because my mother just had an MRIand it took 18 days.She also had coloncancer and was operated on in 5 weeks which included all the testing and analysis WellYOU know what her out of pocket was No you don't want to talk abouthat ZERO
tindallpe 5 months ago
@tindallpe Well, I guess since ur mom had that time, that means that all 30 million Canadians had that experience, you must have really done well in statistics. Dumbass...
And, those 50 Million americans can pay out of pocket for hc if they want and they have free access to hospitals. Why don't you open a damn book...
aaasssfffdddiii 5 months ago
@asffddiii And why don't you stop trying to promote four agenda at the expense your own population you fuckin halfwit.You are trying to discuss ideology when 50 million Americans"The Ones That Are Trying To Get It" can't get health care.There is overwhelming evidece beyond any reasonable argument that private ins doesn't work and you stil lbeat the drum like a like a mindless ass.YOUR leaders are looking for change for a reason; not to" TAKE OVER AMERICA IN THE NAME OF SOCIALISM", YA dam fool
tindallpe 5 months ago
@tindallpe Okay, if public insurance is so much better, then why do people with private insurance get such better care than peole with public....
aaasssfffdddiii 5 months ago
@aaasssfffdddiii They don't
tindallpe 5 months ago
@aaasssfffdddiii It's already been explained If there is an emergency you may wait because of the triage system Priority is first.In the vast majority cases wait times are met to a standard.Not always Surgeons specialists and healthcare staff are very good to excellent You will find complaints in everysystem including oursbut it is cheaper and efficient It could be more efficient but everyone gets it.NO denialsThe doctor bills ins.It happens to govins He gets 100%every time
tindallpe 5 months ago
@tindallpe Okay, then enjoy the crumbling inneficient mess they call socialized medicine...
aaasssfffdddiii 5 months ago
@aaasssfffdddiii (Comparing Canadian and American Health Care kpbs San Diego) This is an objective view by your PBS station. Just check it out and by all means believe what you like.
tindallpe 5 months ago
@tindallpe Ya, cuz KPBS is very objective... lol
aaasssfffdddiii 5 months ago
@aaasssfffdddiii It's fair to say our debate is over and we agree to disagree. I thought the report was well done and it certainly doesn't always favour the Canadian system .It highlights some excellent ideas that should probably be implemented throughout the US that are the brainchild of the one featured American Administrator. It is the most accurate and reasonable depiction you will get .It’s up to you. Just click it on.I didn't mean to get nasty .There is a lot of mud slinging at our system
tindallpe 5 months ago
HEY KUNICH, TAKE THE FIRST FLIGHT OUT TO RED COMMUNIST CHINA AND SPEW YOU COMMUNIST TACTICS THERE. GET THE HELL UT OF HERE.
EVERY MEXICAN AND EVERY ILLEGAL HAVE MORE HEALLTHCARE THAN I DO.
START THERE YOU SOB.
patriotusa200 7 months ago
@patriotusa200
If that were true, why don't you pretend to be a Mexican or illegal then. Don't be stupid.
juarezrt 7 months ago
@patriotusa200
Troll harder.
SSTTEEAALLTTHH 7 months ago
@patriotusa200 try to be more dumb, you can do it
zip68 6 months ago
I think the lesson here is that grown ups are assholes. And we wonder why the young generation is fucked.
yootubematt 7 months ago
I am canadian and this is all true people
creedstat 8 months ago
no the word expert has a diffrent meaning to ultra conservatives
dasblackops 8 months ago 4
To brutal ahahaha
marioluzajic1 9 months ago
This guy got butt raped. I'll vote for Kucinich in 2012
telinit5 9 months ago 6
@telinit5 I'm a huge fan of Kucinich. FYI he got approx. 3% of the vote in the last Dem. Primary, and the only other supposed Progressive was Sharpton, who's more of an idiot than a Progressive. If memory severs me well, the other Progressive was a a former US Surgeon General that dropped out of the race. Dems hate Kucinich because he is what the Dems should be, and not owned by big business..
yourtreat2 9 months ago 4
i hate it when conservatives lie about canada healthcare to keep getting votes from there retarded base i live in canada and i have never had to wait longer then a day or two for a doctors apointment
ihateanthoney 9 months ago 4
Only Righties would be stupid enough to disparage a health care system that blows our system away.
Marchant2 10 months ago 3
This jerk off does not want to face the facts his boss is fucking Americans.
daveusaz1218 10 months ago
@daveusaz1218 Yeah.
JamesRideout123 10 months ago
I love Kucinich! We should have elected him when he ran in 2004 and 2008.
JImmy4336 10 months ago 2
I LOVE Kucinich! that poor expert was on the verge of crying!
Groth1175 11 months ago
@Groth1175 Yeah he's awesome!
JamesRideout123 10 months ago
"I...I dislike your comment sir..."
I love how he stammered like he was afraid Kuchinich was about to pounce on him like a Velociraptor
zzman305 11 months ago
@zzman305 Yep lol.
JamesRideout123 10 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@zzman305 Your comment was too funny and too good to be buried back 5 months ago, so I'm going to re-quote you:
" 'I...I dislike your comment sir...'
I love how he stammered like he was afraid Kuchinich was about to pounce on him like a Velociraptor."
IDoNotBlameYou 6 months ago
this guy who is the witness is a smug little bastard. I'd like to take him outside and beat the living shit out of him. I hate smug kids...fuck you punk!!!
davehutchinson67 11 months ago