@itsalltheory Which is precisely why you need to be able to read the original Hebrew version and make direct translations. In terms of the King James Version, it's the most accurate one. And the King James version does not ADD or take away themes or doctrine from the original.
@SylphViper - I agree with your assertion about the KJV, however many others would denounce your claim. When you say "Hebrew version" I assume you're referring to the Masoretic Text?
Who CREATED the Bible? What men bound its spine? What was the criteria for inclusion or exclusion of script?
Why were some books left out of this anthology? Is the Bible a complete and closed canon, if so why? Is the Bible historical or allegorical? Is it chronologically ordered? What does the Jewish community think about The New Testament? Is the Pentateuch not enough? etc., etc., etc...
The Biblical test of a prophet is given in Deuteronomy 18:22. On September 1, 1842, Joseph Smith said, “…for to this day has the God of my fathers delivered me out of them all, and will deliver me from henceforth; for behold, and lo, I shall triumph over all my enemies, for the Lord God hath spoken it.” (Doctrine and Covenants, 127:2) A prophecy of Joseph Smith. Less than 2 years later Joseph Smith was shot dead by his enemies. Joseph Smith is a false prophet. Case closed.
@peacenic58 Interestingly Isaiah 17:1 prophesied that "The burden of Damascus. Behold, Damascus is taken away from being a city, and it shall be a ruinous heap." Yet Damascus is still inhabited today with over a million people, and is hardly a ruinous heap as described. Case closed?
The problem here is that you folks allow religion to divide you. Why do you ignorant people continue to draw your religious battle lines when you should celebrate what you have in common. I personally believe religion is one of the many scourges not mentioned in the bible that will kill the world off faster than any global warming. My your God have pity on your soul, because I don't have one.
Actually you've got the issue with conditional love backwards with Mormon faith compared to other Christians. For Mormons, for example even fairly violent criminals will go to heaven while in other faiths even a small infraction will put you in the lake of fire. But Mormons believe that heaven has tiers, so where these certain criminals are going is the lower tier...but its still quite a wonderful place etc.
AND HE LEFT THE CHURCH BASED ON THAT VERY STATEMENT?...Give me a break. Did you Shawn the blasphemer knew this emailer was telling the truth?. Christians are full of it...(Believe in Christ & you are saved) Believe in this emailer's words & you have the whole truth about Mormonisms.
WHY DID YOU REALLY LEFT MORMONISMS AGAIN? Was it something to do with what other Christian ministers called "Prosperity Sexual Pimping of the Truth"? (YouTube)
Leave the Mormons alone 'cause you couldn't handle it
Yes believe in Christ and you are saved. Allow me to quote Paul and Silas from Acts 16:30-31, "And he (Paul's jailer) brought them out and said, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?" So they said, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household." I think that covers it pretty good.
BSKY191 "Yes believe in Christ and you are saved" (FYI, THE BIBLE ALSO TELLS THAT THE DEVILS TOO "KNOW & BELIEVE" IN CHRIST....Are they saved too?)
The prison keeper didn't just BELIEVE, but DID SOMETHING GOOD (good works) that most Christians are ignoring today & what the devils do not want to do...BAPTISM (VS:33) The devils can BELIEVE all they like, but they do not want to DO what Christ demonstrated in the water of baptism, but we do..
Ah yes James 2:19. Of course the demons know and believe in Christ. James is saying, "you believe in God? Big deal! The demons believe and are afraid." The Greek word for "believe" is πιστευω which means "to place ones trust in another" This is the "believe" that NT writers use for "believe". (The words of Jesus) John 6:47, "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in me has everlasting life." No mention of baptism or works. Try Eph. 2:8-9 also.
BSKY "Ah yes James 2:19. Of course the demons know and believe in Christ"
Ah Yes! So since the devils also BELIEVE...Are they saved too?
I know you don't wanna see them devils in the same boat that you're in, but that's exactly what millions of Christians unknowingly have put themselves into. (Believe in Christ & Be saved....a very misleading statement)
I wish you Mormons would read stuff in CONTEXT. They believe in Him, but don't put their TRUST in Him which is what the Greek word means. Did you completely miss the words of Jesus in John 6:47?
Again Eph. 2:8-9 "For by GRACE you have been saved through FAITH, and that NOT of yourselves; it is the gift of God, NOT of works, lest anyone should boast."
I think that pretty much takes works out of your salvation requirement.
YOU JUST CAN'T ANSWER THAT QUESTION (Are the devils saved too since they too believe?) CAN YOU?
Faith without Works is dead. Jesus knew that once you BELIEVE, you must get to work by getting yourself down into the water of baptism . What motivates you to be baptized are your beliefs in Jesus Christ & venly Father...the devils can't do such...BELIEVE & WORK..They can't do that but we can.
My goodness man, I thought the Greek lesson helped, but apparently not.
Just like the people John is writing to, the demons only believe that God EXISTS, which is not enough. The word that is used (πιστευω) pisteuo "to place ones trust/faith in another" comes from (πιστισ) pistis which is "faith". This is the "BELIEVE" that indeed Jesus is talking about in John 6:47.
So, merely believing that God exists doesn't cut it, it's placing your trust/faith in Him.
You have the problem with reading. Like I said, simply believing that God exists isn't enough, so NO! It's placing your TRUST/FAITH in Him.
Actually the 24,000 manuscripts for the NT ensures that it is translated correctly, including the Dead Sea Scrolls discovered in 1947.
How many does the Book of Mormon have? Oh ya, ZERO! Supposedly written on gold plates which no one ever saw. And there is no evidence of "Reformed Egyptian" ever existing. Careful where you criticize.
BSKY "Like I said, simply believing that God exists isn't enough, so NO! It's placing your TRUST/FAITH in Him"
Good try dude...But you (Christians) are still dancing around the simple question (Are the devils saved or not since they TOO believe?)
I know you're trying to get a way out of this by bringing up these 24,000 manuscripts. Your Believe & Be Saved doctrine is out of context & is a complete lie.
24,000 MANUSCRIPTS?...Thats a lot but; Why are you still fighting over them?
Since conversations with mormons go no where because of their ignorance, have your last word. For the demons being saved, reference above comments.
Joseph Smith was a FALSE prophet, & I quote his diary entry of March 10, 1843, "I prophecy in the name of the Lord God—& let it be written: that the Son of Man will not come in the heavens till I am 85 years old 48 years hence or about 1890." Also see HotC V.2 Pg. 182. I have no room to list the MANY others. You and many others r deceived by him.
@leSavaii "... simply believing that God exists isn't enough." Demons do not place their trust or faith in God because they are against him. They do believe he exists, they just do not trust him since they work for Satan. "God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to chains of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgment." - 2 Peter 2:4. It's very clear that God does not intend to save fallen angels and they are not interested in being saved anyway.
@econinito The bible also says that Satan and his demons will be thrown into the lake of fire. "..and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever." - Revelation 20:10. I hope this answered your question. God bless you :)
There's no such thing as God outside of Christ. Jesus is God. There's no separation. God loves us in our sinful state.
Remember, "God demonstrates his own love for us in this: while we were still sinners, Christ died for us." (Romans 5:8) God loved us BEFORE he saved us, he saved us BECAUSE he loved us, while we were all still sinners!! God loves sinners!
i see ur not understanding what i said nor did u address those verses u cant a take a verse and be done the must go together romans u romans is there so is psalms 5 u must understand his full council not a verse
Some parts of the Word are more important than others. Some are literal while some are metaphorical or only relevant in a specific historical context. Something said in the NT, if it contradicts something in the OT, (like dietary laws on pork/shellfish) needs to be critically examined to understand if it is relevant for Christians. That said, I don't know that the original language directly translates to our understanding of 'hate' or if it's just 'reject,' 'turn away from,' etc.
Hey I am gay! Will the God and Christ you know love me unconditionally? Less conditionnally than the LDS Church did - I and other Gay and Lesbian LDS has become the target of conditional lovebombings from the LDS Church. I did not choose to be gay - choose to be attracted to someone of my own gender. It was not like I woke up one morning and wanted to sin - like committing adultery or stealing. I am gay and will never be attracted to women. Will Jesus Christ and God still love me? What say you?
Ok, to be openly gay is to say I am a sinner. We all have sin nature (Hebrews 7:9-10) and God still loves us all the same. To say you will never be attracted to women is saying God is not going to help you, He will. If you have feelings towards other men is one thing but acting on thoughts feelings is where you get into trouble. Like a person who has the urge to drink, if they choose to act on those urges, its sin....
New Testament, Romans chapter 5, says God commendeth (offers/extends)His love to us, in that while we were yet (still) sinners, Christ died for us. See Romans chapter 8.There's the profound passage telling us NOTHING exists in the entire universe which can separate us from the love of God.-no feeling, no situation. The crucifixion of Jesus was for every single human being -we ALL need forgiveness for our sin. Christ , the one worthy, holy human ever born,bought that forgiveness with His blood.
you have the choice as to whether or not you will act upon your homo urges. same thing w/ a masterbater. it's one thing to be tempted, and another to act it out. resist the devil and he'll flee
UNCONDITIONAL LOVE THERE ARE COUNTLESS EXAMPLES,,,, Remember David? The psalmist had sinned against the Lord but he came back in Psalm 51 and confessed his wayward activity. In this psalm he cried to be clean, he begged for a spirit what was new and different, In the midst of his petition he asked the Lord to restore unto him the joy of salvation. He did NOT ask that his salvation be restored, he was already a saved person BECAUSE Gods lov e is unconditional!
@ Rossco - you replied to me like that... as if I disagreed with the video or w/ what you said. did i say something you took issue with or are speaking against? i'm confused...
You know what... haha... I have to augh at myself, because for some reason the first time I read your comment. I didn't read the "NOT" before the word conditional....
i would agree that God loves his elect unconditionally. but i would say his love is NOT conditional as to if we obey the law... our righteousness is from Christ ALONE. :-)
Gods love is not up for debate. His love is UNCONDITIONAL. He does not love you less for not obeying. He has created a perfect law that he follows. Because if he let one sin slide for one person then he would have to do the same for everyone adn there there would be no end. Pretty soon people would be mockng the HOLY LAW OF GOD which is perfect. Then God would even have to give eternal life to even those that choose to mock and jeer at his Law.
WHY did Joseph Smith CREATE the BOOK of MORMON? What did he gain from it? Please help me to understand this without the LDS dogma...thanks.
54v115 11 months ago
@54v115 All I know is that the mormon Bible is simply a plagiarized version of the real one. End of story, lol...
SylphViper 11 months ago
@SylphViper "all I know is the mormon Bible is a plagiarized version of the real one."
Interestingly, the New Testament is very much a plagiarization of the Pentateuch at times verbatim.
itsalltheory 8 months ago
@itsalltheory Which is precisely why you need to be able to read the original Hebrew version and make direct translations. In terms of the King James Version, it's the most accurate one. And the King James version does not ADD or take away themes or doctrine from the original.
SylphViper 8 months ago
@SylphViper - I agree with your assertion about the KJV, however many others would denounce your claim. When you say "Hebrew version" I assume you're referring to the Masoretic Text?
itsalltheory 8 months ago
@itsalltheory WHOOPS sorry...Yes, Masoretic, rofl....I must been half asleep when I wrote that. ^_^''''
SylphViper 8 months ago
@54v115 "Why did Joseph Smith CREATE the…"
Who CREATED the Bible? What men bound its spine? What was the criteria for inclusion or exclusion of script?
Why were some books left out of this anthology? Is the Bible a complete and closed canon, if so why? Is the Bible historical or allegorical? Is it chronologically ordered? What does the Jewish community think about The New Testament? Is the Pentateuch not enough? etc., etc., etc...
itsalltheory 8 months ago
@itsalltheory - so you don't know.. why don't you say so ...
54v115 8 months ago
@54v115 Evidently you missed the point. Shall I dumb it down for you?
itsalltheory 8 months ago
The Biblical test of a prophet is given in Deuteronomy 18:22. On September 1, 1842, Joseph Smith said, “…for to this day has the God of my fathers delivered me out of them all, and will deliver me from henceforth; for behold, and lo, I shall triumph over all my enemies, for the Lord God hath spoken it.” (Doctrine and Covenants, 127:2) A prophecy of Joseph Smith. Less than 2 years later Joseph Smith was shot dead by his enemies. Joseph Smith is a false prophet. Case closed.
peacenic58 11 months ago
@peacenic58 Interestingly Isaiah 17:1 prophesied that "The burden of Damascus. Behold, Damascus is taken away from being a city, and it shall be a ruinous heap." Yet Damascus is still inhabited today with over a million people, and is hardly a ruinous heap as described. Case closed?
itsalltheory 8 months ago
The problem here is that you folks allow religion to divide you. Why do you ignorant people continue to draw your religious battle lines when you should celebrate what you have in common. I personally believe religion is one of the many scourges not mentioned in the bible that will kill the world off faster than any global warming. My your God have pity on your soul, because I don't have one.
sublimemota 1 year ago
@sublimemota great point
painless78 1 year ago
Actually you've got the issue with conditional love backwards with Mormon faith compared to other Christians. For Mormons, for example even fairly violent criminals will go to heaven while in other faiths even a small infraction will put you in the lake of fire. But Mormons believe that heaven has tiers, so where these certain criminals are going is the lower tier...but its still quite a wonderful place etc.
PatzerKing 1 year ago
It's funny to watch fake religions call other fake religions...fake.
JediPooDoo77 2 years ago
AND HE LEFT THE CHURCH BASED ON THAT VERY STATEMENT?...Give me a break. Did you Shawn the blasphemer knew this emailer was telling the truth?. Christians are full of it...(Believe in Christ & you are saved) Believe in this emailer's words & you have the whole truth about Mormonisms.
WHY DID YOU REALLY LEFT MORMONISMS AGAIN? Was it something to do with what other Christian ministers called "Prosperity Sexual Pimping of the Truth"? (YouTube)
Leave the Mormons alone 'cause you couldn't handle it
leSavaii 2 years ago
Yes believe in Christ and you are saved. Allow me to quote Paul and Silas from Acts 16:30-31, "And he (Paul's jailer) brought them out and said, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?" So they said, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household." I think that covers it pretty good.
brandsky191 2 years ago
BSKY191 "Yes believe in Christ and you are saved" (FYI, THE BIBLE ALSO TELLS THAT THE DEVILS TOO "KNOW & BELIEVE" IN CHRIST....Are they saved too?)
The prison keeper didn't just BELIEVE, but DID SOMETHING GOOD (good works) that most Christians are ignoring today & what the devils do not want to do...BAPTISM (VS:33) The devils can BELIEVE all they like, but they do not want to DO what Christ demonstrated in the water of baptism, but we do..
Go figure!
leSavaii 2 years ago
Ah yes James 2:19. Of course the demons know and believe in Christ. James is saying, "you believe in God? Big deal! The demons believe and are afraid." The Greek word for "believe" is πιστευω which means "to place ones trust in another" This is the "believe" that NT writers use for "believe". (The words of Jesus) John 6:47, "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in me has everlasting life." No mention of baptism or works. Try Eph. 2:8-9 also.
brandsky191 2 years ago
BSKY "Ah yes James 2:19. Of course the demons know and believe in Christ"
Ah Yes! So since the devils also BELIEVE...Are they saved too?
I know you don't wanna see them devils in the same boat that you're in, but that's exactly what millions of Christians unknowingly have put themselves into. (Believe in Christ & Be saved....a very misleading statement)
Go figure! & Stop feeding lies to God's Children.
leSavaii 2 years ago
I wish you Mormons would read stuff in CONTEXT. They believe in Him, but don't put their TRUST in Him which is what the Greek word means. Did you completely miss the words of Jesus in John 6:47?
Again Eph. 2:8-9 "For by GRACE you have been saved through FAITH, and that NOT of yourselves; it is the gift of God, NOT of works, lest anyone should boast."
I think that pretty much takes works out of your salvation requirement.
brandsky191 2 years ago
YOU JUST CAN'T ANSWER THAT QUESTION (Are the devils saved too since they too believe?) CAN YOU?
Faith without Works is dead. Jesus knew that once you BELIEVE, you must get to work by getting yourself down into the water of baptism . What motivates you to be baptized are your beliefs in Jesus Christ & venly Father...the devils can't do such...BELIEVE & WORK..They can't do that but we can.
leSavaii 2 years ago
My goodness man, I thought the Greek lesson helped, but apparently not.
Just like the people John is writing to, the demons only believe that God EXISTS, which is not enough. The word that is used (πιστευω) pisteuo "to place ones trust/faith in another" comes from (πιστισ) pistis which is "faith". This is the "BELIEVE" that indeed Jesus is talking about in John 6:47.
So, merely believing that God exists doesn't cut it, it's placing your trust/faith in Him.
easy enough for you?
brandsky191 2 years ago
WHAT'S THE PROBLEM DUDE?...Is your Bible not been translated correctly?
The Mormons 8th.Articles of Faith, it reads "We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly..."
MY QUESTION STILL HAS NOT BEEN ANSWERED..."If the devils also BELIEVE & KNOW GOD...Are they saved too with the Christians?"
Still figuring out?
leSavaii 2 years ago
You have the problem with reading. Like I said, simply believing that God exists isn't enough, so NO! It's placing your TRUST/FAITH in Him.
Actually the 24,000 manuscripts for the NT ensures that it is translated correctly, including the Dead Sea Scrolls discovered in 1947.
How many does the Book of Mormon have? Oh ya, ZERO! Supposedly written on gold plates which no one ever saw. And there is no evidence of "Reformed Egyptian" ever existing. Careful where you criticize.
brandsky191 2 years ago
BSKY "Like I said, simply believing that God exists isn't enough, so NO! It's placing your TRUST/FAITH in Him"
Good try dude...But you (Christians) are still dancing around the simple question (Are the devils saved or not since they TOO believe?)
I know you're trying to get a way out of this by bringing up these 24,000 manuscripts. Your Believe & Be Saved doctrine is out of context & is a complete lie.
24,000 MANUSCRIPTS?...Thats a lot but; Why are you still fighting over them?
leSavaii 2 years ago
Since conversations with mormons go no where because of their ignorance, have your last word. For the demons being saved, reference above comments.
Joseph Smith was a FALSE prophet, & I quote his diary entry of March 10, 1843, "I prophecy in the name of the Lord God—& let it be written: that the Son of Man will not come in the heavens till I am 85 years old 48 years hence or about 1890." Also see HotC V.2 Pg. 182. I have no room to list the MANY others. You and many others r deceived by him.
brandsky191 2 years ago
BSKY "Since conversations with mormons go no where because of their ignorance, have your last word"
JUST ANSWER THE QUESTION, THAT'S ALL..."Are the devils saved since they too BELIEVE? (according to the Christians'...Believe & Be Saved Doctrine)
leSavaii 2 years ago
@leSavaii "... simply believing that God exists isn't enough." Demons do not place their trust or faith in God because they are against him. They do believe he exists, they just do not trust him since they work for Satan. "God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to chains of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgment." - 2 Peter 2:4. It's very clear that God does not intend to save fallen angels and they are not interested in being saved anyway.
econinito 5 months ago
@econinito The bible also says that Satan and his demons will be thrown into the lake of fire. "..and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever." - Revelation 20:10. I hope this answered your question. God bless you :)
econinito 5 months ago
Foul heretic. Consider the Mormon rebellion- Old Joeseph Smith couldn't stand up to the might of the United States Army.
Consider the foul, despicable mormon who slaughtered good christians who settled on their lands, all for the crime of not conforming to their heresy.
Mormon heretics, you will burn in afterlife, and you will burn IN life, if I had my way.
Anathema1984 2 years ago
God wants repentance.
Of course God loves everyone but sin has consequences.
wilfordwoodruff 2 years ago
"GOD HATES SIN"
"IF YOU LOVE ME KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS"
Jesus Christ.
This guys a loon!
wilfordwoodruff 2 years ago
God never said "I won't love you if you sin."
God hates sin, NOT sinners. God's love for us is unconditional.
carlasue88 2 years ago 4
Psalms 5:5 God hates the worker of iniquity " outside of christ God hates sinners Romans "Jacob i loved esua i hated>
KempoJoe87 2 years ago
There's no such thing as God outside of Christ. Jesus is God. There's no separation. God loves us in our sinful state.
Remember, "God demonstrates his own love for us in this: while we were still sinners, Christ died for us." (Romans 5:8) God loved us BEFORE he saved us, he saved us BECAUSE he loved us, while we were all still sinners!! God loves sinners!
carlasue88 2 years ago 2
i see ur not understanding what i said nor did u address those verses u cant a take a verse and be done the must go together romans u romans is there so is psalms 5 u must understand his full council not a verse
KempoJoe87 2 years ago
Some parts of the Word are more important than others. Some are literal while some are metaphorical or only relevant in a specific historical context. Something said in the NT, if it contradicts something in the OT, (like dietary laws on pork/shellfish) needs to be critically examined to understand if it is relevant for Christians. That said, I don't know that the original language directly translates to our understanding of 'hate' or if it's just 'reject,' 'turn away from,' etc.
carlasue88 2 years ago
Amen.
I just ran into this site.
Some serious Truth going on here.
Americanluvunit 2 years ago 4
Hey I am gay! Will the God and Christ you know love me unconditionally? Less conditionnally than the LDS Church did - I and other Gay and Lesbian LDS has become the target of conditional lovebombings from the LDS Church. I did not choose to be gay - choose to be attracted to someone of my own gender. It was not like I woke up one morning and wanted to sin - like committing adultery or stealing. I am gay and will never be attracted to women. Will Jesus Christ and God still love me? What say you?
niller2006 2 years ago
Ok, to be openly gay is to say I am a sinner. We all have sin nature (Hebrews 7:9-10) and God still loves us all the same. To say you will never be attracted to women is saying God is not going to help you, He will. If you have feelings towards other men is one thing but acting on thoughts feelings is where you get into trouble. Like a person who has the urge to drink, if they choose to act on those urges, its sin....
cont.
Exodus314IAM 2 years ago 7
New Testament, Romans chapter 5, says God commendeth (offers/extends)His love to us, in that while we were yet (still) sinners, Christ died for us. See Romans chapter 8.There's the profound passage telling us NOTHING exists in the entire universe which can separate us from the love of God.-no feeling, no situation. The crucifixion of Jesus was for every single human being -we ALL need forgiveness for our sin. Christ , the one worthy, holy human ever born,bought that forgiveness with His blood.
bsl103158 2 years ago
you have the choice as to whether or not you will act upon your homo urges. same thing w/ a masterbater. it's one thing to be tempted, and another to act it out. resist the devil and he'll flee
filoIII 2 years ago 3
UNCONDITIONAL LOVE THERE ARE COUNTLESS EXAMPLES,,,, Remember David? The psalmist had sinned against the Lord but he came back in Psalm 51 and confessed his wayward activity. In this psalm he cried to be clean, he begged for a spirit what was new and different, In the midst of his petition he asked the Lord to restore unto him the joy of salvation. He did NOT ask that his salvation be restored, he was already a saved person BECAUSE Gods lov e is unconditional!
carnrick 2 years ago 9
@ Rossco - you replied to me like that... as if I disagreed with the video or w/ what you said. did i say something you took issue with or are speaking against? i'm confused...
jesusfreakrkg 2 years ago
You know what... haha... I have to augh at myself, because for some reason the first time I read your comment. I didn't read the "NOT" before the word conditional....
ROSSCO4040 2 years ago
i would agree that God loves his elect unconditionally. but i would say his love is NOT conditional as to if we obey the law... our righteousness is from Christ ALONE. :-)
jesusfreakrkg 2 years ago
Gods love is not up for debate. His love is UNCONDITIONAL. He does not love you less for not obeying. He has created a perfect law that he follows. Because if he let one sin slide for one person then he would have to do the same for everyone adn there there would be no end. Pretty soon people would be mockng the HOLY LAW OF GOD which is perfect. Then God would even have to give eternal life to even those that choose to mock and jeer at his Law.
ROSSCO4040 2 years ago