@FUSION011235 Oh I agree. To that end though, we should teach Creationism, so that it can be put up next to evolution and shown to the vapid theory that it is, and Creationists will stop trying to get it put into the classrooms.
Sorta like getting sick on purpose so you'll never get that sickness again.
NATURAL SELECTION DOESN'T CREATE. It can only "select" from what is produced that has survival value. It only operates once there is life and reproduction and not before, so it couldn't be involved in life's origins. Natural selection is a passive process, not a creative process. The real issue is not natural selection but what biological variations are possible in nature. Read my Internet article, WAR AMONG EVOLUTIONISTS!
APES ARE QUITE COMFORTABLE IN HOW THEY WALK, just as humans are quite comfortable in how they walk. Even a slight change in the position of a muscle or bone, for either, would be excruciatingly painful and would not be an advantage for survival. There's no hard evidence that humans evolved from an ape-like creature anymore than there's hard evidence that apes evolved from a four-legged dog-like creature. Read Internet article: MISSING LINKS THAT NEVER WERE.
SCIENCE SHOWS THAT THE UNIVERSE, because of entropy, could not have sustained itself eternally. Einstein confirmed that space, matter, and time had a beginning! That beginning had to be supernatural because natural laws have no ability to bring the universe into existence from nothing. The supernatural cannot be proved by science but science points to a supernatural intelligence for the origin and order of the universe ~ HOW FORENSIC SCIENCE REFUTES ATHEISM (Article)
@Mogley52 No, he confirmed that time and space, not matter, had a beginning. You don't know that natural laws don't have the ability to bring the universe into being, in fact there are some good solid theories that say they in fact can.
However it can't be a conscious being that caused it, since consciousness requires time, so it isn't god that created the universe.
INTELLIGENT DESIGN: IF YOU DISCOVERED A SAND CASTLE ON A LONELY BEACH, YOU CAN’T PROVE THAT IT WAS MADE BY EITHER CHANCE OR DESIGN. NO ONE OBSERVED ITS ORIGINS. EITHER IT WAS DESIGNED OR THE RANDOM FORCES OF WIND AND WAVES MADE THE CASTLE. YOU FIND NO FINGERPRINTS. DID THE WIND WIPE AWAY THE FINGERPRINTS? BUT, HOW DO WE KNOW THERE WERE FINGERPRINTS IN THE FIRST PLACE? BY CHANCE OR DESIGN? BOTH SIDES SHOULD BE FREE TO PRESENT THEIR CASE! READ MY ARTICLE "HOW FORENSIC SCIENCE REFUTES ATHEISM."
@Mogley52 Except that we look for things like design, and so often see design in things that are not. I guess since that cloud outside looks like a rabbit that proves it was designed?
Oh, is there some explanation to how it could form like that naturally? Wind you say? Well, we have a natural explanation for how complex life can evolve.
@Mogley52 Ok..I can find 100 friends of mine to start screaming in the news that the Earth is flat and that it stands on the back of a turtle..Should we teach children the "controversy"?
Creationists would be free to present their case IF they had a case.They just keep on repeating the same arguments that have been rebutted 1000 times in the past.
NATURAL LIMITS TO EVOLUTION: Only evolution within "kinds" is genetically possible (i.e. varieties of dogs, cats, etc.), but not evolution across "kinds" (i.e. from worm to human). How were species living, reproducing if their reproductive system, vital structures, and organs hadn't evolved yet? Read my Pravda Internet article: WAR AMONG EVOLUTIONISTS! I discuss: Punctuated Equilibrium, "Junk DNA," genetics, mutations, natural selection, fossils, genetic/biological similarities between species.
I agree with your suggestion in principle...but there are a lot of creationist science teachers would would give short shrift to evolution (which they do already) and put a massively positive spin on creationism, and get away with it in an actual science class. Now if the order to include creationism were carefully regulated to make sure no such shenanigans went on, great...otherwise it could turn into a disaster.
@upsilon054 Sponteneous generation is not a science either and it is still taught, but merely as a history.
I agree though that it is inappropriate, but if you let it be taught for a few years and watch it get it's ass kicked by evolution you'll never have to hear people call for it to be taught again. It's like getting chicken pox!
@HonestDiscussioner Maybe so, but spontaneous generation is not evolution, which is what I thought the discussion was about.
I agree, creationism might probably its ass kicked by evolution, if both are taught. Or maybe not, if the politicos get their mangy hands on it. Thing is, do you really think it is in the best interests of HS students for creationism to be taught as a science, which is what I think you're getting at?
@upsilon054 I think it is in the best interest of HS students if creationists realize they don't want evolution and creationism to be taught at once. Once they realize that putting creationism in science class makes biblical claims under the realm of scientific criticism the parents will be horrified by this and demand that science and faith do not mix. Then we don't have to deal with this again for a few more decades at least.
There's something else I might as well bring up, for no particular reason. There are lots of creation stories in the world. Which ones would the creationists like to see taught?
@upsilon054 The biblical one. There is a good reason for it though. Flood geology did in fact influence science for along time, just like spon. gen. Both were eventually overturned, but geologists never believed the other stories.
creationism is ultimately inspired by religious scripture. if u want your kids learning about biblical creationism, then send em to a religious school. there are plenty of other creation myths. why don't we just cram em all into the curriculum? in public school kids are taught about scientific discovery, not religious doctrine. it's called separation of church and state..C'MON!
@itzahazylife You know I'm only advocating it be taught as a previous theory that was wildly debunked by evidence, because that is what it is. The fact is, flood geology has a lot to do with the HISTORY of science, and it is important to understand why we DON'T hold to that anymore in order to understand why we DO hold to the old earth, non-global flood theories.
I really don't see why it is so important to teach evolution in the first place. If anything, it should be taught in 10th grade biology, but I think there are better uses of the precious little time in school that students have. Students are graduating high school without such basic skills as balancing a check book, understanding interest and interest rates, decent writing skills etc.
@christo930 I will agree with you that the educational system does in fact require a lot of reform. A LOT of reform. But science is a very important thing too, and understanding the very building block of life I think is important.
@HonestDiscussioner Do you think 10th grade biology is "good enough" or that it is too important to have only part of 1 year of it? Personally, I think we need to spend more time teaching how to think like a scientist. Too many people accept the most crazy ideas on no, or very flimsy evidence. Take astrology, for example. It BLOWS MY MIND that people believe this shit. I didn't buy it when I was 10 years old and remember thinking that it was stupid to divide the human race in 12 categories.
@christo930 I am more for fewer, more intense class sessions, so part of one year is fine, so long as it is intensely studied. I also agree we need to teach students about how science works more than individual theories.
@HonestDiscussioner I totally agree with you here. The problem is there isn't enough of a science curriculum in America to really go over why evolution is true. Kids should be taught how scientists come to conclusions about major things in science. But this is such a big philosophical, scientific and cultural issue that we really shouldn't just brush aside. Instead of just fighting against creationism let's make more classes dealing with philosophy, critical thinking and the scientific method.
@RuinSonic Maybe we should have more discussion classes where we analyze evidence and learn how to evaluate claims in the real world and argue about conclusions. Of course it would be by some liberally biased teacher that would brain wash kids how to think, right? No wait, if they actually honed their skills at critically thinking and evaluating claims they wouldn't just accept what their teacher said.
First and foremost, you will never discover how the earth was made because well...no one was around back then lol. It's impossible to know how it was made. Second, science and faith are both equal on this subject. The big bang is a theory correct? Creation is faith based correct? Neither of them have been proven, so no need to argue over it. I'm sorry but I can't stand angry athiests trying to debunk religion...you're wasting time and making an ass of yourself. Do something productive.
@BillyJimmyBobbyTimmy So let me get this straight . . if someone gets killed and no one sees it, then gathering evidence is completely pointless and we can never prove who killed the person?
Because if you think detectives should use stuff like DNA evidence or any real type of evidence, then you would have to accept the overwhelming evidence for evolution and the big bang . . because they really have been proven beyond a reasonable doubt.
VERY intelligent, well founded arguement you propose here....well done, and please keep it up...Creationism is an F'ing JOKE and it should be exposed for being the sad punchline that is is...
@mardastheEitheist Yes, I can see Bill O'Reilly now: "LIBERALS and their EDUCATION are attacking religious institutions by trying to teach creationism in schools and then . . now get this . . showing evolution along side of it. This is a clear attack on our religious beliefs and must be put to an end".
The bible is a book of prophecy, God said He would tell the End from the Beginnng, He DID. The bible tells of world wide eco. crisis, one world gov. the alliance between Russia, Iran, Turkey against Israel. Nuclear war, and much more. It also says the generation that see's Israel become a nation again in one day, is the last generation before All is completed. It will be.
Did you know that pi, and e are both encoded in the two creation scriptures? Some know much about what isnt true.
@luettem if you give the bible 20,000 years all those prophecy's come to pass. but pretty much you're full of shit. The coming of isreal was supposed to happen 1600 years ago, did you miss that part of the prophecy? oh wait, which prophecy?? because it was predicted in 3 different parts. you know Taroh cards will predict your future to. SPend weeks pulling cards and eventually 1 will forsee your future.
@luettem The bible is so completly accurate, it describes nuclear war, and its cleanup that could come out of a current manual. The fact that an entire world will "see" events at one time, the current alliances taking place now, and their outcome. If you choose to shut your eyes, they will be opened soon enough, however, once tribulation begins, there wont be much you can say, or do.
@HonestDiscussioner because "you" are unaware does not mean its not "true' it simply means you have not studied the prophecys of the bible to find them true. All of it is True, will come to pass just as God has fortold it, as every other prophecy has come to pass perfectly. So if you wish to be an "honest discussioner" try having some information under your belt first., That might enlighten your persuit
@luettem No, just because you read into it what you want to see does not mean it is true. The bible says that pi is 3 anyway, so if they were to later encode it to be accurate that would seem a bit silly.
Any large book can be made to look as if it was encoded, it's just a matter of numbers.
And how do you know what information I have, simply because I don't agree with you?
Where does it say that there will be a nuclear war?
@HonestDiscussioner I know because you are asking me where it talks about nuclear war. I would suggest Chuck Missler studies on both the accuracy of Gods Word, the 70 weeks of Daniel and End times, just to catch up. I really would not put it off for later if I were someone who did not know what is about to take place. You dont have much time. This generation will not pass away until ALL is fulfilled, including Tribulation.
@HonestDiscussioner Acutally I did, if you really want to know what Gods Word says about the time you are most definately in, I suggested Chuck Missler and complete Studies with reams of scripture so you would no longer be in limbo land. But if you dont begin now, you may be too late. Jesus said WATCH, lest the day come upon you unaware,-- if you are children of the light, you will know, but those in the darkness will experience His return as a thief, and not be ready.
@eLLriDe420 only a fool says in his heart, there is no God. Quite amazing the "no" God has told exactly your future, and that of the earth, and that it is coming to pass step by step exactly as He said it would....the book of Daniel predicted the rise of Empires and their fall before their existance, and the exact day Christ would enter Jerusalem. Unfortunatly for you, God isnt too perplexed at your disbelief, What He said would take place, IS. All prophecy is and has been, 100% accurate
@HonestDiscussioner The only ones that havent taken place, are those in the immediate future, and since All Others have exactly, dont hold your breath. There is not one. But then, you have the choice to either actually get some information, and investigate the issue, or remain bound. Your choice. make a good one.
@luettem Really? Then why does Ezekiel 26 say that Nebuchadnezzar will destroy Tyre "and it will never be rebuilt"? Not only did he not destroy it (it was Alexander the Great) but it was rebuilt and still exists today.
@HonestDiscussioner Nothing but a small fishing village remains and the fishermen spread their nets their to dry or to fix. The once great city of Tyre is gone. Old Tyre was never rebuilt after its destruction by Nebuchadnezzar; and there are now no traces left to mark its site. Now its harbours are choked with sand, precluding all hope of future restoration. "Not one entire house is left, and only a few fishermen take shelter in the vaults"
@luettem Umm, no. Check wikipedia: "The present-day city of Tyre covers a large part of the original island and has expanded onto and covers most of the causeway, which had increased greatly in width over the centuries because of extensive silt depositions on either side. The part of the original island that is not covered by the modern city of Tyre consists mostly of an archaeological site showcasing remains of the city from ancient times."
And it wasn't destroyed by Neb. The bible is wrong.
@HonestDiscussioner, The origonal city is destroyed, want pictures? Still sits empty, like a skeleton in plain view. The city has not been rebuilt even today. And again, If you chose to believe satan, who is the father of lies, how will you ever find the truth?
@luettem There is no Satan to lie to me, or to believe. Satan is a lie. And if it was not rebuilt, why did Alexander see fit to lay siege to it? Historically, Neb did not destroy Tyre as the Bible says he would.
@HonestDiscussioner God said he would bring MANY nations against it....as to satan? most certainly he exists. As does God. You can see his work everywhere. He is the father of Lies, a murderer from the beginning. God is light and in Him there is no darkness at all. All things have a reciprocal. love, hate, life, death, light, darkness, so why would you think he does not exist? You can see the results of his work everywhere.
@luettem But he also said that Neb would be the one to destroy it. He would also apparently take Egypt and make it uninhabited for 40 years . . which never happened.
@HonestDiscussioner Are you aware the many of the prophecies in Ezec are for modern day also? As to the destrction of tyre, it was, as to many of the prophecy in Ez. the day of the Lord is prominant. The Day of the Lord is End times. So to really understand the book, you must also understand it referred to occurances then, and also the End Times. God speaks of both current and later events.
@luettem Aaaand you totally missed my point. It says Neb . . . not modern day person named Neb, will destroy Egypt and make it uninhabitable for 40 years. Egypt has never since that writing been uninhabited for even a moment. There was no dispersion of the Egyptians, the Bible is inaccurate here.
@HonestDiscussioner the last half of this chapter is End time. Iran Russia, Syria etc will all be destroyed. I would suggest a study on end times by Chuck Missler if you really want to understand what is going to happen now. He does one on the 70 weeks of Daniel, Revelation, the Apocolypse, and it is in depth. That is IF you want to do more then fumble around. Gods Word will come to pass, but I really wouldnt put it off. There isnt much time.
@luettem There is nothing about that Chapter to make it seem as though it is an end times prophecy. After the 40 years of desolation the people of Egypt are to return there and form a nation once again, which will never be above nations again. Egypt hasn't been above nations anyway for some time now, but even still . . if this desolation is to come in the future it won't be until decades later that the end times will come, well after my lifetime.
@HonestDiscussioner yes it is End times thru this chapter. How can you expect to understand the Word of God, without having first become a child of God? The bible states then when one is His, the Holy Spirit will open scripture, and guide you into all truth. You are attempting something from the outside. As to when it will take place, no, not decades, most likely this decade. Israel is Gods time piece, Tribulation is all about Israel, The believers will not be present for Tribulation.
@luettem This decade will be the end times? So what 40 year period was\will Egypt be uninhabitable, and then the former inhabitants or their offspring return to the land? I don't need to be a Christian to see this is a contradiction.
@HonestDiscussioner Are you also unaware of the 1,000 year mellinium? Christ will rule over the entire earth and its inhabitants for this period right after He returns on the Mt of Olives. There will be nations present thru this time. I again would suggest Chuck Missler, He is extreme in his ability to explain these subjects, this forum is not. IF you truely want the answers to your questions. Also the Authenticity of Gods Word is excellent, I doubt you will continue to question Gods Word.
@upsilon054 If you truely know Him, it is impossible to call God a liar. God cannot lie.Satan is the father of lies. If you truely know Him, there is a new birth that affects all things in ones life. Christ died to give us life, when one honestly is His, the old man, old things pass away, all things are new. We no longer live, but Christ in us. The Word is precious as Christ is actually the Word in the flesh, and it speaks of Him throu out its pages. There is only One Way-Christ to attain it.
@upsilon054 When one ridicules a God that not only exists, but has also said what is about to happen on the earth, and that God has been 100% accurate to date, I find the riducule to be out of ignorance rather then truth. What is about to happen will end all belief in evolution, the idea there is no God, or any other such belief. You dont really have much time. That is what this is about.
@luettem I never ridiculed God. I'm a practicing Catholic. I would suggest you take a look at Fr. George Coyne, a Catholic priest and an asrophysicist. There are several videos on him on YouTube.
@upsilon054 Satan leaves his signature on his work, much like a fingerprint, God told us exactly what to look for in the Word. Murder, Suicide, Abuse, Pedophilia, Idolitry, Worship of Man, Self, the Absence of Christ, or the Diminishing of the Power of His Blood for the Redemption of Man, or of Who He Is (Son of God) Restructure of Gods Word into mans view, Paul said all or part would be the doctrin of Demons. Recognize anyone?
@upsilon054 Within the immediate future, no one on earth will be talking "evolution" or even the idea there is no God...I really hate to rain on your parade, but God is coming back, Time is up, He gave man only so many years of mercy. Then Tribulaton. He specifically said WHEN, your view wont even exist shortly, met by God Himself. Good luck with that.
@upsilon054 you must understand. Deception is rampant, mixed with religion on this earth. God gave His standards and said, study to show yourself approved. Why? To recognize the enemy. i saw the "pope" recently gather ALL religions in one place. Idolitry, mysticism, Pagen All, and pray with them, as though they were also included. In Tribulation there will be a one world "religion" That includes ALL-There is only ONE WAY to God-Thru Jesus Christ, all else is Demonic in origin. RUN
@upsilon054 If you personaly KNEW Christ as your Redeemer, you would not ask. get out of false religion, God is not mocked. Find Christ, Read the Word. You stand in confusion because you have only a form of religion, but not Him. The Word of God is True, man is a liar. God give opportunity to man to repent, but without repentance there is no salvation.
@upsilon054 The Church of Christ is not a denomination, it is not a man made house. The body of Christ are individual believers. If, and I say IF you knew the Word of God, you would not have joined a false religion. God is too specific and covered each and every situation that has been twisted. But you did not, and became entangled in counterfiet. Not Gods Fault, but your own. I gave you the very sign posts of satan, read them again, then READ your BIBLE
@luettem Let us try to understand one another here. I never ridiculed God or called him a liar. I have no idea what is about to happen. Maybe you can enlighten us, perhaps? On the other hand, you wish to repudiate scientific evidence, which I find interesting. I also asked you about that 1948 date, remember? And I did mention Fr. George Coyne. Did you look him up on YouTube?
@upsilon054 you can find the 1948 scriptures and math -googlePresentation2: Ezekiels Prophecy and 1948' by barry johns.
Now, so that you understand what Deception is, Why you have come to believe what you do, Watch Demon on My shoulder, Slits on my Eyes" you tube. Dont bother with protests of it not being real, I have seen this myself working with kids in satan worship. It will explain a great deal. Good luck, you dont have much time.
@luettem You're right, I don't have much time, but not for the reasons you might think.
Thanks for worrying about my soul. Allow me to worry about yours. May I suggest you check out the local Catholic Church and consider a conversion to Roman Catholocism?
@upsilon054 hard time finding your last comment, as to dinosaurs on earth, God mentions them in Job. As to time, God is in control of time. He pinned 1948 over 2,000 years ago, for Israels return to its land. He said, for those who see it happen, this generation will not pass away befor all is finished-He also tells of the current "Peace process" now. He says and when they shall say Peace and Safetly, sudden destruction will come upon them. you dont have much time
@upsilon054 God says all of mans highest "wisdom" is as foolishness to Him, you had better look to the Word. It is the only truth that exists in a world in which satan is prince and power of the air. You asked what is about to happen? Israel faces two wars, One for Hate sake, one for Plunder. The next thing that concerns the believers is the catching away, then Tribulation. A man will soon rise up in the midst of econ. and turmoil who will claim he can correct everything and bring peace.
@upsilon054 Many assume wrongly they are a child of God, but have attempted to come thru another door, Jesus said "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life, no man comes unto the Father except thru Me". Some think if they live a "good" life, they are fine, but all have sinned and come short of the Glory of God. So unless one has been redeemed thru Christ, they will face judgment.
@HonestDiscussioner This is why God gave several signs for the End. But one of the most prominant is Israel. He said He would again gather then from all over the world, make them a nation again, and cause their land to blossom. They now send tulips to Holland. But the generation that see this, will be the last one. They became a nation in 1948, you really dont have much time to make the right decision. Once tribulation begins, few will survive, those who rejected Christ, will be deluded.
@HonestDiscussioner Christ said, when you see these things begin to take place, look up for your redemption draweth nigh. He is coming soon, to take His Bride, then return to destroy all those who rejected Him, and those who come against Israel.
@HonestDiscussioner The fishing village can barely count. Old Tyre has been bare as a rock for 2500 years as God said, even though 10 million gallons of fresh water supply the site daily with enough water for a city. The city has not been rebuilt even today.
@luettem If it was nothing but a bare rock for fishermen to cast their nets, why did Alexander spend SEVEN MONTHS laying siege to it and conquering it hundreds of years later after Neb?
@HonestDiscussioner now back to the issue at hand, God said the generation that see's Israel become a nation again in one day, it the last generation before ALL prophecy is fulfilled. Which, would leave you in an extremely poor position. I might suggest you find out exactly what God Said, if He said it, It WILL happen.
@HonestDiscussioner Knowing the Word, and a personal relationship with Christ is the ONLY reason I can exist in Peace, If I lived in this time, and did not know Him, I would be scared spitless, knowing what is coming. Chuck Missler does a study on Revelation as well, and I suggest you spend your immediate future, finding out what is coming, or you may find your immediate future, extreemly unpleasant.
@luettem "Knowing the Word, and a personal relationship with Christ is the ONLY reason I can exist in Peace"...I couldn't feel more sorry for you, believing what I believe is utter nonsense and lies. I also must admit to feeling anger because people like you continue to perpetrate this childish, fairy tale nonsense which keeps mankind from moving forward, out of the Dark Ages and into an a reasonable, logical, REAL future.
@cecinid So your take on the world is that it is moving "Where"? The truth is God said He would have to cut the days short because man would completly destroy himself. And as you watch Korea, Iran, Islam, etc, the reality becomes evident. No, the world is not moving out of the dark ages, in fact, just watching Islam encroaching, is a lesson of simple barbarians, so continue to hide in your padded room, shortly (very) you will be unpleasantly awakened to the truth.
@luettem My take on the world is that we are moving TOWARD another Dark Ages, due to simplistic, idiotic FAIRY TALE BELIEVERS such as yourself. Your religion, ALL religion IS WRONG, period. There IS a power out there, but NO RELIGION has it RIGHT. 'You will be awakened to the truth'...spoken like a true sheeple. You go right ahead and think you are 'right'...don't mind me, I will be laughinmg my ass off right over here...
@cecinid No, you will not be standing laughing, Your position will be to enter Tribulation, and the final Wrath of God. There will be no place to hide, a billion will die in just one event, more to follow. The leaders of the earth will be hiding to escape, but no escape, will be afforded. Christ is coming to destroy all those who rejected Him, and the countries coming against Israel. Prophecy is being fulfilled daily, Russia, Iran, Turkey , nuclear war, and far more. Trust in man will fall
@cecinid Satans most simple lie, is that there is no God, But even He fears the wrath of God, as he knows his time is short. He hates man, and will take as many with him as possible. Including you. Deception is his best game, and you have fallen hook, line and sinker. no you wont be laughing, but will rehearse over and over the times you could have made a better descion, and refused your only way out.
@cecinid As to it being a fairy tale, 100% accuracy is never a fairy tale, but could be considered absolute TRUTH. Your invisionment of a wonderful man made world? Now THAT is a fairy tale
@luettem 'ACCURACY'??! PLEASE! Talking snakes, Adam and Eve's kids having INCEST to populate the world, and on and on...It's a laughable book of FABLES, not REALITY...wake UP!!
@cecinid yes, accuracy, and we are not talking snakes, but Satan, who is a murderer and liar from the beginning, just the prophecy concerning the first coming of Christ- to be fulfilled mathematecally would be like covering the state of Texas with silver dollars five feet deep, marking one, you blindfolded, finding it first try, for His second coming there are hundreds more. He came the first time and will come again. There is no prophecy in the Bible unfulfilled. At 100%, that leave you at 0
@luettem THERE IS NO SATAN!!! Its a book of FAIRY TALES, not ONE of which has 'come true'...thats ALL people like you twisting reality to FIT your fable book...hell, you can make ANYTHING seem to fit that silly shit IF YOU WANT IT TO. Its all BS, its all LIES and tall tales...you go right ahead believing otherwise, and as I said: I will continue to LAUGH at you for it...PERIOD.
@cecinid ause you have no knowledge of prophecy,and thus declare it is untrue, do you think that you have dimissed God? ignorance will be no excuse. All of it has come true, precise, empires predicted, their fall, rulers, kings, times, places, All has taken place just as written. No, you personal ignorance will not be an excuse
@luettem Gee, three replies...a LOT of defending of your 'opinions' here. Funny thing: religious types who really are content in their beliefs, the ones that truly believe...will simply smile and shake their heads at those who disagree with them...the ones that respond over and over, the ones that feel a NEED to continue trying to force their silly views...are the ones that have DOUBT. That speaks VOLUMES about your sancamoneous, pompous 'I know the TRUTH!' postings here, doesnt it?
@cecinid If you were standing in a burning building, would you prefer someone just ignore you preference not to come out? Or would you appreciate their continued effort to tell you of your perilous situation? You ARE standing in a burning building, you are ignorant of what is coming, ignorant of just how accurate, and precise, God has been in prophecy. Yes I hope it does say something as to someone trying to tell you.
@cecinid I have studied the bible for over 61 years, and the Truth is, you are wrong. Clinging to lies, and standing on sand. What God said will happen, it always has, and alway will. No matter if you choose to believe it or not. But I do care, because God does. Christ payed the price for your freedom from the chains of sin and death. But its"your life" and 'Your Choice"
@luettem "I have studied the bible for over 61 years"...Then you have WASTED 61 years of your life...that's sad. "Christ payed the price for your freedom"...THERE WAS/IS NO CHRIST!!! I'm sorry you are delusional, and buy into this shit...I DO NOT. I deal in FACTS and REALITY...you continue to attempt to 'save' someone that does NOT WANT, BELIEVE or NEED it- you continue to PROVE my point-were you secure in your beliefs you would SHUT UP- go ahead, prove me wrong...DO NOT REPLY.
@HonestDiscussioner i see, rather then learning exactly what is coming with a complete study of Gods Word so you have become knowledgable enough to have no doubt as to His existance, exact statements, you want an easy way out. It also tells of over a BILLION people dying at one time, the effects of a nuclear bomb on the troops and how they will clean up after. i think being lazy at this point would not be in your best interest.
@HonestDiscussioner You remind me of a person who while standing in a burning building, asks how "hot" it will be before moving toward the exit. What is coming goes far beyond the nuclear aspect, that is only part. Gods Wrath will make that look like childsplay. So continue to avoid any further knowledge. but its "your" life, right?
@luettem why do you keep stating random events just answer me one question how old is the earth? oh wait you said its a book of prophecy not a book of truth that makes more sense sorry for bothering you lol.
@sharkshockey19 Sorry to have missed your question. Gods spirit hovered over the face of the deep before creating what we see now. Consequently, materials, age of those materials, is unknown. I believe the current earth in its present form was created as God said it was. I also believe man was given 6,000 years, the 7th will be the millinium. As to mans "calculations" I see failure from every aspect from failing darwinism to the now paniced idea Alians created DNA. So mans wisdom is foolishness
@luettem I agree mans wisdom is foolish because how could someone truly believe that the earth is 6 thousand years old when carbon dating shows that the dinosaur fossils that are all over this earth are about 100 million years old, now if you don't believe in carbon dating which is impossible, then in my mind I believe you were brain washed as a child to believe in a creator, maybe I'm wrong maybe you were brought up in an atheist family and you found a bible and figured this has to be correct.
@sharkshockey19 "mans carbon dating?", Did you know dinos lived with man? Gosh, thats interesting, of course that cant be true-the evidence must be wrong. God even speaks of them in Job. The honest truth is, God made the earth as it stands 5, 993 years ago, at 6,000, He will reign as King of Kings, and Lord of Lords, and you can discuss mans wisdom with the Creator of all things, You dont have much time -read Revelations, it is about to be upclose and personal.
@luettem I realize your pretty brainwashed so i will talk to you in a different manner. How bout this now I don't believe that there is a God , now my question to you is why would a God create someone who had a mind that made him not want to believe in a God. and why would I be punished if he created me, shouldn't it be his fault for screwing up my brain chemistry. Can you give me some points that dont involve going back to a book that couldve been written by anyone.you should read up on darwin.
@sharkshockey19 So wrong about the Book, it would only take seconds. Listen to Chuck Missler on the Authrenticity of the Bible, for its infalibility. Your "brain' is just fine, but satan has decieved you, which is why Christ took the keys of Sin and Death from satan on the Cross. So you do have a way to be FREE. Now, read Isaiah 24-It is a picture of the earth in the last days. and what you will be facing. This generation will not pass away, until all is fulfilled.
@luettem we obviously are never going to get on the same page so I will just say this to you I will stick to not putting my faith in something that shows no proof and actually has a substantial amount of proof against it and you stick to believing your almighty god. and then when we die you will either go to a magical place known as heaven or you will go nowhere, and for me I will either go to hell or nowhere and thats okay with me if some magical higher power wants me in hell then send me there
@sharkshockey19 you have been putting your faith in something that is nothing but conjecture already, even the evolutionists, are baffled at DNA, Bill Gates looked at it, and said it is a far more intricate computer program then anything on earth, computer programs have a creator. your last statement if one of ignorance, I suggest a travel brochure, great story as well. Google Ian McCormack, listen to the Revelation TV episode, just so you can possibly not go for a walk in Iran.
@luettem There is no evidence for this outside the Bible. None. There is no evidence that dinosaurs roamed Earth with men. And where did that exact number of years (5993 years) come from?
@sharkshockey19 As to "random" events, no they are not random. God said He would tell the End from the Beginning so you would KNOW He is God. He did. All men know there is a God, but fill life full of deception to counter that knowledge. As it falls apart, more deception. I would highly suggest reading Revelations, as you are most certainly going to see it in its entirety. God said, "and when they say, Peace and Safetly, Sudden destruction will come upon them" havent you been listening lately?
I understand your argument for allowing Creationism to just basically discredit itself.... But you will never get them to budge from their favorite answer when it becomes obvious to everyone their claims don't make sense. "You just got to have faith!"
@AdamTh1 Sure, but they can't really argue that in a science class! Eventually creationists will just give up and not want it in the classrooms, content to indoctrinate people and give false information in their churches and on street corners.
@AdamTh1 only problem is if you get a teacher who is slanted towards creationism and then with a doctored presentation, it's the opposite of discrediting itself, but re-affirming itself. Plus if it openly allowed, creationists will think they have their foot in the door as a valid science.
If there were infinite time in the classroom, I'd agree that this is a good idea. But there isn't.. there's already a ton of more important things that aren't being taught..
@newexperiment Well this would sort of be to inoculate science class. It's like Chicken pox. You let it happen to yourself so that you'll never have to have it again. A few years of teaching creationism next to evolution and showing how creationism is totally untenable before they never ask to have it included again.
@HonestDiscussioner I undesrtand the argument 100%. I would agree if it took 30 years for children to finish high school, but it doesn't. There is a limited amount of classes that children take before they graduate. While your argument if fine for a reason why such a course would not be a poor choice. It is not in any way an argument for this class being MORE Beneficial than critical thinking, or any of the other possible classes in the limited amount of classes. And Indeed I thin it fails this.
Teaching creation in a science class seems irrelevant. The reason, in my opinion, is that science class should stay focused on science. However, optional classes (at least at the beginning) for "Science Theory" or "Pre-Science" could be put up, teaching what is science. Not just what scientists have discovered, but rather what is the process, and what is and isn't science based on those definitions.
@goal2004 I really only recommend we do it so that creationists will realize the error of their ways and demand that creationism be kept out of the classroom. Basically, it's like chicken pox, you get it so that you never have to worry about getting it again.
I completely understand the rationale behind your intentions, but I think my suggestion would give them the satisfaction while also denying it to them at the same time.
Very interesting argument ... From what I have been seeing in the news, however, any "criticism" of the religious view of creationism might end up in court under First Amendment and "viewpoint discrimination" arguments. So comparing the creationism arguments with scientific arguments would need to follow a pretty rigorous set of rules to make sure there are no lawsuits.
ok we have been having a mature debate. It is engaging and involves critical thinking. You believe in free speech from 1 of your other captions. Shouldn't students have that right in classrooms to be presented w/ 2 sides of an issue. From Fox news the statistic said over 90% of Americans believe in God. The majority. Does free speech only begin after highschool? Please name some recent murderous Christians please. Mother Theresa?
@misskellycarmen Statistically only 1% of people in jail are atheist, while we are at least 10% of the population. There was a murder suicide by a christian here on Youtube named Tony for example. It is just statistically, a higher percentage of Christians murder than atheists.
And free speech pertains to what students say in the classroom, not what they are taught. If 99% of people believed 1 + 1 = 3 that is not an excuse to teach it. It isn't math, and creationism has no scientific backing.
@misskellycarmen Science is an open discipline however. If you want to have it taught in the classroom, merely submit a paper that meets scientific criteria. If indeed a WORLDWIDE flood happened, that is bound to leave a mountain of evidence. The thing is creationists simply can't do that, the "evidence" they find is generally based off of misunderstandings of geology and has been debunked for hundreds of years.
@misskellycarmen And the funny thing about mother teresa . . she tried to hard to find god, dedicated her life to that ideal, and yet after her death letters were released where she confessed to her superiors that she never felt the love of god. Not once. Despite all her hard work, god (if he exists) abandoned her her entire life.
@misskellycarmen this is not about freespeech, you can NOT teach non-science in science class, no matter how many people get butt hurt if you dont and like he said, you teach one creation myth, teach them ALL but you cant because none are science, you can teach christians or muslims etc creation myth in mythology, sure, but you cant teach it as if its true. would you want people to also teach flat earth? hey, its just freedom of speech, right?
ok did quick research : problems with theory of evolution1.How did the universe come about 2. How could living creatures come from non-living life 3. How could new genetic information arise4. 1000's of new fossils of apes & humans have now been found-they don't show a steady progression from apes to humans at all Selfish eternal reward?So people can do all the evil/good they want& it doesn't matter in the end? How do u have hope if u think there is nothing more than this?
@misskellycarmen 1. That has nothing to do with evolution. That's cosmology. You might as well ask how the evolution accounts for the rotation of the earth. If you want me to answer how the universe came about without god, I can do that, but that's a separate question. Feel free to ask it.
2. I will send you a link to a video that describes it better than I can.
3. See #2.
4. That's not true. We have found fossils with a very steady progression from apes to humans.
@misskellycarmen 5. Hope? Hope for what? If I die, true, I will not exist anymore. This is an unpleasant reality, but it is reality all the same. My hope is mostly in the next generation, my children (when I am able to have them), as evolution would imply. But these things speak nothing to whether or not it is TRUE. It may have everything to do with whether you WANT it to be true, or whether it is a HAPPY fact, but facts are independent of our desire for them to be true or false.
how do you respond so fast? Well all I can say is some people need proof to believe but faith is believing not seeing and when everyone dies hopefully a long long time from now they will find out the truth. U should watch that movie with Julia Roberts & Kieffer sutherland where they try a science experiment and experiment with ndes. I would say find someone you know who has experienced an nde. I thought MUslims hated Jesus. I will pray for u still but will not check feel hot blooded now.
@misskellycarmen "how do you respond so fast?" This is my video. I get notified the moment I get any messages. Well technically that depends. Sometimes Youtube lags, taking DAYS to notify me of a comment being posted!
Islam is called an Abrahamic religion because it technically worships the same god as Judaism & Christianity. Allah is the Arabic name for Yahwey I think. In Islam, Jesus is one of the great profits but not god incarnate. Mohummad purported met Jesus on his "night vision".
@misskellycarmen You mean flatliners? I saw it a while back if that is the movie you are talking about. I've read up on NDE's before, they are very consistent with what we'd expect to see if the brain is either under trauma or deprived of oxygen. We can actually recreate these experience in the lab using the "god helmet". It sends electromagnetic waves into your brain and can cause you to have experiences of hell\heaven\Jesus, though most frequently there is feeling of being outside your body.
part 2-hope 1st part went thru. 2 students who were bullied were so enraged & unforgiving they went on a rampage. 3rd grade students plotted to murder their teacher in the U.S. Timothy McVAe was so enraged- at an adult level that he blew up a building. television is pure violence. ie. Dexter & criminal minds Intellectual books say forget about God. They don't teach forgiveness nor virtues. God exists because evil exists.ie. Hitler, ouijji boards- don't try it it exposes people to bad things
@misskellycarmen If you believe that atheism is a detriment to society, why do atheists have the lowest divorce rates & the lowest level of violent crimes? You can point to instances of atheists doing evil, but for each you point to I can point to 10 who base their evil on Christianity. I know you get comfort from your belief but in the end it is emptiness. You can love and forgive without religion, I do it all the time. You can do it for the sake of doing it, not for some selfish eternal reward
@misskellycarmen an argument for the existence of god that says - Evil exists so therefor God Exists, is an argument from ignorance. You cannot provide evedince of god and the because the bible says so is not anywhere close to good enough. When will you believers get a clue and get some evidence?? oh wait, there isn't any
You are obviously intelligent & like to debate but you are not going to convince me nor am I going to convince you. from u tube I have found that many people have converted after having near death experiences. ie. Howard Storm(former atheist) and many muslim people. There are many intellectual textbooks out like Darwin's theory but it doesn't teach about love or forgiveness as far as I know. The world is going down the drain as a result of secularism in schools. Examples: Columbine
@misskellycarmen Ah yes, I saw a study on conversions on NDE experiences. I did a video on it a while back. You are right, they are an excellent catalyst for conversion. Unfortunately they don't just convert to Christians, they are equally as likely to convert to any number of other religions. It is of course telling that Muslims have the highest conversion rate to Christianity, since they are the only ones that have Jesus in their religion. Few if any hindus see him when they have an NDE.
@misskellycarmen As far as Columbine, that was not the result of secularism. At most those kids misunderstood evolution, but even if they didn't, that speaks nothing to whether or not it is true. The evidence speaks for itself, if not for evolutionary theory, nothing in biology would make sense, and we would not be able to produce anti-biotics like we do today. It is a more solid theory than gravity.
@misskellycarmen Now if you want love and forgiveness, you need to study the evolution of morality. That does speak to those things, but I doubt the people that tell you about evolution go into that particular detail. It's a very advanced subject, so I can't say I blame them.
And you can convince me, you just need to give me evidence that evolution did not happen. I find it difficult to believe that you can, the theory is as solid as it gets. Why can't I convince you though?
@FUSION011235 Oh I agree. To that end though, we should teach Creationism, so that it can be put up next to evolution and shown to the vapid theory that it is, and Creationists will stop trying to get it put into the classrooms.
Sorta like getting sick on purpose so you'll never get that sickness again.
HonestDiscussioner 3 months ago
Atheists believe that objects made them what they are.
Evolution is an absolute disgrace to science.
Objects never order anything, mutations never order anything and natural selection will only select what has already been ordered.
Evolution is so irrational that it should be removed from all classrooms.
watch?v=HoKVVYJ8KJM
JungleJargon 4 months ago
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@JungleJargon
"Evolution is an absolute disgrace to science."
Are you American?
ButterOnCorn 1 month ago
NATURAL SELECTION DOESN'T CREATE. It can only "select" from what is produced that has survival value. It only operates once there is life and reproduction and not before, so it couldn't be involved in life's origins. Natural selection is a passive process, not a creative process. The real issue is not natural selection but what biological variations are possible in nature. Read my Internet article, WAR AMONG EVOLUTIONISTS!
Mogley52 6 months ago
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APES ARE QUITE COMFORTABLE IN HOW THEY WALK, just as humans are quite comfortable in how they walk. Even a slight change in the position of a muscle or bone, for either, would be excruciatingly painful and would not be an advantage for survival. There's no hard evidence that humans evolved from an ape-like creature anymore than there's hard evidence that apes evolved from a four-legged dog-like creature. Read Internet article: MISSING LINKS THAT NEVER WERE.
Mogley52 6 months ago
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SCIENCE SHOWS THAT THE UNIVERSE, because of entropy, could not have sustained itself eternally. Einstein confirmed that space, matter, and time had a beginning! That beginning had to be supernatural because natural laws have no ability to bring the universe into existence from nothing. The supernatural cannot be proved by science but science points to a supernatural intelligence for the origin and order of the universe ~ HOW FORENSIC SCIENCE REFUTES ATHEISM (Article)
Mogley52 6 months ago
@Mogley52 No, he confirmed that time and space, not matter, had a beginning. You don't know that natural laws don't have the ability to bring the universe into being, in fact there are some good solid theories that say they in fact can.
However it can't be a conscious being that caused it, since consciousness requires time, so it isn't god that created the universe.
HonestDiscussioner 6 months ago
INTELLIGENT DESIGN: IF YOU DISCOVERED A SAND CASTLE ON A LONELY BEACH, YOU CAN’T PROVE THAT IT WAS MADE BY EITHER CHANCE OR DESIGN. NO ONE OBSERVED ITS ORIGINS. EITHER IT WAS DESIGNED OR THE RANDOM FORCES OF WIND AND WAVES MADE THE CASTLE. YOU FIND NO FINGERPRINTS. DID THE WIND WIPE AWAY THE FINGERPRINTS? BUT, HOW DO WE KNOW THERE WERE FINGERPRINTS IN THE FIRST PLACE? BY CHANCE OR DESIGN? BOTH SIDES SHOULD BE FREE TO PRESENT THEIR CASE! READ MY ARTICLE "HOW FORENSIC SCIENCE REFUTES ATHEISM."
Mogley52 6 months ago
@Mogley52 Except that we look for things like design, and so often see design in things that are not. I guess since that cloud outside looks like a rabbit that proves it was designed?
Oh, is there some explanation to how it could form like that naturally? Wind you say? Well, we have a natural explanation for how complex life can evolve.
HonestDiscussioner 6 months ago
@Mogley52 Ok..I can find 100 friends of mine to start screaming in the news that the Earth is flat and that it stands on the back of a turtle..Should we teach children the "controversy"?
Creationists would be free to present their case IF they had a case.They just keep on repeating the same arguments that have been rebutted 1000 times in the past.
Oh and using caps proves nothing.
Stevoukos 5 months ago
NATURAL LIMITS TO EVOLUTION: Only evolution within "kinds" is genetically possible (i.e. varieties of dogs, cats, etc.), but not evolution across "kinds" (i.e. from worm to human). How were species living, reproducing if their reproductive system, vital structures, and organs hadn't evolved yet? Read my Pravda Internet article: WAR AMONG EVOLUTIONISTS! I discuss: Punctuated Equilibrium, "Junk DNA," genetics, mutations, natural selection, fossils, genetic/biological similarities between species.
Mogley52 6 months ago
@Mogley52 Except the DNA evidence alone is enough to prove that evolution across "kinds" has happened.
HonestDiscussioner 6 months ago
What you're talking about is already done!
but to "teach" ID is different from spending a few minutes on refuting it
...I bet if we were allowed to "teach it" some teachers would go 80-20% in favor of ID
funincluded 1 year ago
I agree with your suggestion in principle...but there are a lot of creationist science teachers would would give short shrift to evolution (which they do already) and put a massively positive spin on creationism, and get away with it in an actual science class. Now if the order to include creationism were carefully regulated to make sure no such shenanigans went on, great...otherwise it could turn into a disaster.
Underlings 1 year ago
@Underlings It certainly could go wrong, but I still think it is an interesting idea. If it worked, we'd be rid of them forever!
HonestDiscussioner 1 year ago
@HonestDiscussioner Amen!
Underlings 1 year ago
Creationism is not a science, therefore it would be singularly inappropriate to teach it in a science class.
upsilon054 1 year ago
@upsilon054 Sponteneous generation is not a science either and it is still taught, but merely as a history.
I agree though that it is inappropriate, but if you let it be taught for a few years and watch it get it's ass kicked by evolution you'll never have to hear people call for it to be taught again. It's like getting chicken pox!
HonestDiscussioner 1 year ago
@HonestDiscussioner Maybe so, but spontaneous generation is not evolution, which is what I thought the discussion was about.
I agree, creationism might probably its ass kicked by evolution, if both are taught. Or maybe not, if the politicos get their mangy hands on it. Thing is, do you really think it is in the best interests of HS students for creationism to be taught as a science, which is what I think you're getting at?
upsilon054 1 year ago
@upsilon054 I think it is in the best interest of HS students if creationists realize they don't want evolution and creationism to be taught at once. Once they realize that putting creationism in science class makes biblical claims under the realm of scientific criticism the parents will be horrified by this and demand that science and faith do not mix. Then we don't have to deal with this again for a few more decades at least.
HonestDiscussioner 1 year ago
@HonestDiscussioner Okay, maybe, but try telling that to luettem.
There's something else I might as well bring up, for no particular reason. There are lots of creation stories in the world. Which ones would the creationists like to see taught?
upsilon054 1 year ago
@upsilon054 The biblical one. There is a good reason for it though. Flood geology did in fact influence science for along time, just like spon. gen. Both were eventually overturned, but geologists never believed the other stories.
HonestDiscussioner 1 year ago
@HonestDiscussioner
creationism is ultimately inspired by religious scripture. if u want your kids learning about biblical creationism, then send em to a religious school. there are plenty of other creation myths. why don't we just cram em all into the curriculum? in public school kids are taught about scientific discovery, not religious doctrine. it's called separation of church and state..C'MON!
itzahazylife 1 year ago
@itzahazylife You know I'm only advocating it be taught as a previous theory that was wildly debunked by evidence, because that is what it is. The fact is, flood geology has a lot to do with the HISTORY of science, and it is important to understand why we DON'T hold to that anymore in order to understand why we DO hold to the old earth, non-global flood theories.
HonestDiscussioner 1 year ago
They should teach micro brewing.
HeroesofApostasy 1 year ago
I really don't see why it is so important to teach evolution in the first place. If anything, it should be taught in 10th grade biology, but I think there are better uses of the precious little time in school that students have. Students are graduating high school without such basic skills as balancing a check book, understanding interest and interest rates, decent writing skills etc.
christo930 1 year ago
@christo930 I will agree with you that the educational system does in fact require a lot of reform. A LOT of reform. But science is a very important thing too, and understanding the very building block of life I think is important.
HonestDiscussioner 1 year ago
@HonestDiscussioner Do you think 10th grade biology is "good enough" or that it is too important to have only part of 1 year of it? Personally, I think we need to spend more time teaching how to think like a scientist. Too many people accept the most crazy ideas on no, or very flimsy evidence. Take astrology, for example. It BLOWS MY MIND that people believe this shit. I didn't buy it when I was 10 years old and remember thinking that it was stupid to divide the human race in 12 categories.
christo930 1 year ago
@christo930 I am more for fewer, more intense class sessions, so part of one year is fine, so long as it is intensely studied. I also agree we need to teach students about how science works more than individual theories.
HonestDiscussioner 1 year ago
onl in ri class
dogboygb 1 year ago
You have some good points, but as you say at the end, science class is supposed to be about actual science.
RHawkeyed 1 year ago
teach the children creationism.. they are the future.
blesstv 1 year ago
@blesstv Yes . . they need to understand creationism . . and the dozens of reasons why it can't be true.
HonestDiscussioner 1 year ago
@HonestDiscussioner I totally agree with you here. The problem is there isn't enough of a science curriculum in America to really go over why evolution is true. Kids should be taught how scientists come to conclusions about major things in science. But this is such a big philosophical, scientific and cultural issue that we really shouldn't just brush aside. Instead of just fighting against creationism let's make more classes dealing with philosophy, critical thinking and the scientific method.
RuinSonic 1 year ago
@RuinSonic Maybe we should have more discussion classes where we analyze evidence and learn how to evaluate claims in the real world and argue about conclusions. Of course it would be by some liberally biased teacher that would brain wash kids how to think, right? No wait, if they actually honed their skills at critically thinking and evaluating claims they wouldn't just accept what their teacher said.
RuinSonic 1 year ago
@RuinSonic Fair enough.
HonestDiscussioner 1 year ago
i bet this retarded thinks carbon dating doesn't work, but then claims that Noah's Ark "remains" are true cause of carbon dating.
thedayitriedtodie 1 year ago
If ID was let in the class room its not going to play out like you're thinking... school is never that interesting.
AtheistKharm 1 year ago
First and foremost, you will never discover how the earth was made because well...no one was around back then lol. It's impossible to know how it was made. Second, science and faith are both equal on this subject. The big bang is a theory correct? Creation is faith based correct? Neither of them have been proven, so no need to argue over it. I'm sorry but I can't stand angry athiests trying to debunk religion...you're wasting time and making an ass of yourself. Do something productive.
BillyJimmyBobbyTimmy 1 year ago
@BillyJimmyBobbyTimmy So let me get this straight . . if someone gets killed and no one sees it, then gathering evidence is completely pointless and we can never prove who killed the person?
Because if you think detectives should use stuff like DNA evidence or any real type of evidence, then you would have to accept the overwhelming evidence for evolution and the big bang . . because they really have been proven beyond a reasonable doubt.
HonestDiscussioner 1 year ago
AMEN!! (Sorry for the irony there...;)
VERY intelligent, well founded arguement you propose here....well done, and please keep it up...Creationism is an F'ing JOKE and it should be exposed for being the sad punchline that is is...
cecinid 1 year ago
I would love their entry on fox news, when they attack this.
mardastheEitheist 1 year ago
@mardastheEitheist Yes, I can see Bill O'Reilly now: "LIBERALS and their EDUCATION are attacking religious institutions by trying to teach creationism in schools and then . . now get this . . showing evolution along side of it. This is a clear attack on our religious beliefs and must be put to an end".
HonestDiscussioner 1 year ago
I was ready to rage, but you convinced me. Very well done.
coryh1234 1 year ago
@coryh1234 You are not the first person to feel that way! Lotsa other people came ready to fight too. ;-)
HonestDiscussioner 1 year ago
The bible is a book of prophecy, God said He would tell the End from the Beginnng, He DID. The bible tells of world wide eco. crisis, one world gov. the alliance between Russia, Iran, Turkey against Israel. Nuclear war, and much more. It also says the generation that see's Israel become a nation again in one day, is the last generation before All is completed. It will be.
Did you know that pi, and e are both encoded in the two creation scriptures? Some know much about what isnt true.
luettem 1 year ago
@luettem if you give the bible 20,000 years all those prophecy's come to pass. but pretty much you're full of shit. The coming of isreal was supposed to happen 1600 years ago, did you miss that part of the prophecy? oh wait, which prophecy?? because it was predicted in 3 different parts. you know Taroh cards will predict your future to. SPend weeks pulling cards and eventually 1 will forsee your future.
TrooperCX 1 year ago
@luettem The bible is so completly accurate, it describes nuclear war, and its cleanup that could come out of a current manual. The fact that an entire world will "see" events at one time, the current alliances taking place now, and their outcome. If you choose to shut your eyes, they will be opened soon enough, however, once tribulation begins, there wont be much you can say, or do.
luettem 1 year ago
@luettem No, none of that is true.
HonestDiscussioner 1 year ago
@HonestDiscussioner because "you" are unaware does not mean its not "true' it simply means you have not studied the prophecys of the bible to find them true. All of it is True, will come to pass just as God has fortold it, as every other prophecy has come to pass perfectly. So if you wish to be an "honest discussioner" try having some information under your belt first., That might enlighten your persuit
luettem 1 year ago
@luettem No, just because you read into it what you want to see does not mean it is true. The bible says that pi is 3 anyway, so if they were to later encode it to be accurate that would seem a bit silly.
Any large book can be made to look as if it was encoded, it's just a matter of numbers.
And how do you know what information I have, simply because I don't agree with you?
Where does it say that there will be a nuclear war?
HonestDiscussioner 1 year ago
@HonestDiscussioner I know because you are asking me where it talks about nuclear war. I would suggest Chuck Missler studies on both the accuracy of Gods Word, the 70 weeks of Daniel and End times, just to catch up. I really would not put it off for later if I were someone who did not know what is about to take place. You dont have much time. This generation will not pass away until ALL is fulfilled, including Tribulation.
luettem 1 year ago
@luettem You didn't answer the question. Where does it say there will be a nuclear war?
HonestDiscussioner 1 year ago
@HonestDiscussioner Acutally I did, if you really want to know what Gods Word says about the time you are most definately in, I suggested Chuck Missler and complete Studies with reams of scripture so you would no longer be in limbo land. But if you dont begin now, you may be too late. Jesus said WATCH, lest the day come upon you unaware,-- if you are children of the light, you will know, but those in the darkness will experience His return as a thief, and not be ready.
luettem 1 year ago
@luettem god? no god.
eLLriDe420 1 year ago
@eLLriDe420 only a fool says in his heart, there is no God. Quite amazing the "no" God has told exactly your future, and that of the earth, and that it is coming to pass step by step exactly as He said it would....the book of Daniel predicted the rise of Empires and their fall before their existance, and the exact day Christ would enter Jerusalem. Unfortunatly for you, God isnt too perplexed at your disbelief, What He said would take place, IS. All prophecy is and has been, 100% accurate
luettem 1 year ago
@eLLriDe420 30 Days of Night? Am I right?
HonestDiscussioner 1 year ago
@HonestDiscussioner yea your right. god im a fool.
eLLriDe420 1 year ago
@luettem Only a non-fool says in their heart "there is no god".
And no, there are prophecies that did not come true. I'm guessing your boy that you read just happened to not mention them.
HonestDiscussioner 1 year ago
@HonestDiscussioner The only ones that havent taken place, are those in the immediate future, and since All Others have exactly, dont hold your breath. There is not one. But then, you have the choice to either actually get some information, and investigate the issue, or remain bound. Your choice. make a good one.
luettem 1 year ago
@luettem Really? Then why does Ezekiel 26 say that Nebuchadnezzar will destroy Tyre "and it will never be rebuilt"? Not only did he not destroy it (it was Alexander the Great) but it was rebuilt and still exists today.
The Bible is not 100% accurate by a long shot.
HonestDiscussioner 1 year ago
@HonestDiscussioner Nothing but a small fishing village remains and the fishermen spread their nets their to dry or to fix. The once great city of Tyre is gone. Old Tyre was never rebuilt after its destruction by Nebuchadnezzar; and there are now no traces left to mark its site. Now its harbours are choked with sand, precluding all hope of future restoration. "Not one entire house is left, and only a few fishermen take shelter in the vaults"
luettem 1 year ago
@luettem Umm, no. Check wikipedia: "The present-day city of Tyre covers a large part of the original island and has expanded onto and covers most of the causeway, which had increased greatly in width over the centuries because of extensive silt depositions on either side. The part of the original island that is not covered by the modern city of Tyre consists mostly of an archaeological site showcasing remains of the city from ancient times."
And it wasn't destroyed by Neb. The bible is wrong.
HonestDiscussioner 1 year ago
@HonestDiscussioner, The origonal city is destroyed, want pictures? Still sits empty, like a skeleton in plain view. The city has not been rebuilt even today. And again, If you chose to believe satan, who is the father of lies, how will you ever find the truth?
luettem 1 year ago
@luettem There is no Satan to lie to me, or to believe. Satan is a lie. And if it was not rebuilt, why did Alexander see fit to lay siege to it? Historically, Neb did not destroy Tyre as the Bible says he would.
HonestDiscussioner 1 year ago
@HonestDiscussioner God said he would bring MANY nations against it....as to satan? most certainly he exists. As does God. You can see his work everywhere. He is the father of Lies, a murderer from the beginning. God is light and in Him there is no darkness at all. All things have a reciprocal. love, hate, life, death, light, darkness, so why would you think he does not exist? You can see the results of his work everywhere.
luettem 1 year ago
@luettem But he also said that Neb would be the one to destroy it. He would also apparently take Egypt and make it uninhabited for 40 years . . which never happened.
HonestDiscussioner 1 year ago
@HonestDiscussioner Are you aware the many of the prophecies in Ezec are for modern day also? As to the destrction of tyre, it was, as to many of the prophecy in Ez. the day of the Lord is prominant. The Day of the Lord is End times. So to really understand the book, you must also understand it referred to occurances then, and also the End Times. God speaks of both current and later events.
luettem 1 year ago
@luettem Aaaand you totally missed my point. It says Neb . . . not modern day person named Neb, will destroy Egypt and make it uninhabitable for 40 years. Egypt has never since that writing been uninhabited for even a moment. There was no dispersion of the Egyptians, the Bible is inaccurate here.
HonestDiscussioner 1 year ago
@HonestDiscussioner the last half of this chapter is End time. Iran Russia, Syria etc will all be destroyed. I would suggest a study on end times by Chuck Missler if you really want to understand what is going to happen now. He does one on the 70 weeks of Daniel, Revelation, the Apocolypse, and it is in depth. That is IF you want to do more then fumble around. Gods Word will come to pass, but I really wouldnt put it off. There isnt much time.
luettem 1 year ago
@luettem There is nothing about that Chapter to make it seem as though it is an end times prophecy. After the 40 years of desolation the people of Egypt are to return there and form a nation once again, which will never be above nations again. Egypt hasn't been above nations anyway for some time now, but even still . . if this desolation is to come in the future it won't be until decades later that the end times will come, well after my lifetime.
HonestDiscussioner 1 year ago
@HonestDiscussioner yes it is End times thru this chapter. How can you expect to understand the Word of God, without having first become a child of God? The bible states then when one is His, the Holy Spirit will open scripture, and guide you into all truth. You are attempting something from the outside. As to when it will take place, no, not decades, most likely this decade. Israel is Gods time piece, Tribulation is all about Israel, The believers will not be present for Tribulation.
luettem 1 year ago
@luettem This decade will be the end times? So what 40 year period was\will Egypt be uninhabitable, and then the former inhabitants or their offspring return to the land? I don't need to be a Christian to see this is a contradiction.
HonestDiscussioner 1 year ago
@HonestDiscussioner Are you also unaware of the 1,000 year mellinium? Christ will rule over the entire earth and its inhabitants for this period right after He returns on the Mt of Olives. There will be nations present thru this time. I again would suggest Chuck Missler, He is extreme in his ability to explain these subjects, this forum is not. IF you truely want the answers to your questions. Also the Authenticity of Gods Word is excellent, I doubt you will continue to question Gods Word.
luettem 1 year ago
@luettem You have my curiousity piqued. Tell me, what makes you think Honest is not a "child of God"?
upsilon054 1 year ago
@upsilon054 If you truely know Him, it is impossible to call God a liar. God cannot lie.Satan is the father of lies. If you truely know Him, there is a new birth that affects all things in ones life. Christ died to give us life, when one honestly is His, the old man, old things pass away, all things are new. We no longer live, but Christ in us. The Word is precious as Christ is actually the Word in the flesh, and it speaks of Him throu out its pages. There is only One Way-Christ to attain it.
luettem 1 year ago
@luettem Okay, fine. But what does this have to do with creationism? Did I misunderstand something here?
upsilon054 1 year ago
@upsilon054 When one ridicules a God that not only exists, but has also said what is about to happen on the earth, and that God has been 100% accurate to date, I find the riducule to be out of ignorance rather then truth. What is about to happen will end all belief in evolution, the idea there is no God, or any other such belief. You dont really have much time. That is what this is about.
luettem 1 year ago
@luettem I never ridiculed God. I'm a practicing Catholic. I would suggest you take a look at Fr. George Coyne, a Catholic priest and an asrophysicist. There are several videos on him on YouTube.
upsilon054 1 year ago
@upsilon054 Satan leaves his signature on his work, much like a fingerprint, God told us exactly what to look for in the Word. Murder, Suicide, Abuse, Pedophilia, Idolitry, Worship of Man, Self, the Absence of Christ, or the Diminishing of the Power of His Blood for the Redemption of Man, or of Who He Is (Son of God) Restructure of Gods Word into mans view, Paul said all or part would be the doctrin of Demons. Recognize anyone?
luettem 1 year ago
@luettem Right. AND ALL THIS STUFF YOU MENTIONED EXISTED BEFORE EVOLUTION.
upsilon054 1 year ago
@upsilon054 Within the immediate future, no one on earth will be talking "evolution" or even the idea there is no God...I really hate to rain on your parade, but God is coming back, Time is up, He gave man only so many years of mercy. Then Tribulaton. He specifically said WHEN, your view wont even exist shortly, met by God Himself. Good luck with that.
luettem 1 year ago
@upsilon054 you must understand. Deception is rampant, mixed with religion on this earth. God gave His standards and said, study to show yourself approved. Why? To recognize the enemy. i saw the "pope" recently gather ALL religions in one place. Idolitry, mysticism, Pagen All, and pray with them, as though they were also included. In Tribulation there will be a one world "religion" That includes ALL-There is only ONE WAY to God-Thru Jesus Christ, all else is Demonic in origin. RUN
luettem 1 year ago
@luettem Let me ask you this: Which version of creation is true in Genesis?
upsilon054 1 year ago
@upsilon054 If you personaly KNEW Christ as your Redeemer, you would not ask. get out of false religion, God is not mocked. Find Christ, Read the Word. You stand in confusion because you have only a form of religion, but not Him. The Word of God is True, man is a liar. God give opportunity to man to repent, but without repentance there is no salvation.
luettem 1 year ago
@upsilon054 The Church of Christ is not a denomination, it is not a man made house. The body of Christ are individual believers. If, and I say IF you knew the Word of God, you would not have joined a false religion. God is too specific and covered each and every situation that has been twisted. But you did not, and became entangled in counterfiet. Not Gods Fault, but your own. I gave you the very sign posts of satan, read them again, then READ your BIBLE
luettem 1 year ago
@luettem Let us try to understand one another here. I never ridiculed God or called him a liar. I have no idea what is about to happen. Maybe you can enlighten us, perhaps? On the other hand, you wish to repudiate scientific evidence, which I find interesting. I also asked you about that 1948 date, remember? And I did mention Fr. George Coyne. Did you look him up on YouTube?
upsilon054 1 year ago
@upsilon054 you can find the 1948 scriptures and math -googlePresentation2: Ezekiels Prophecy and 1948' by barry johns.
Now, so that you understand what Deception is, Why you have come to believe what you do, Watch Demon on My shoulder, Slits on my Eyes" you tube. Dont bother with protests of it not being real, I have seen this myself working with kids in satan worship. It will explain a great deal. Good luck, you dont have much time.
luettem 1 year ago
@luettem You're right, I don't have much time, but not for the reasons you might think.
Thanks for worrying about my soul. Allow me to worry about yours. May I suggest you check out the local Catholic Church and consider a conversion to Roman Catholocism?
upsilon054 1 year ago
@upsilon054 hard time finding your last comment, as to dinosaurs on earth, God mentions them in Job. As to time, God is in control of time. He pinned 1948 over 2,000 years ago, for Israels return to its land. He said, for those who see it happen, this generation will not pass away befor all is finished-He also tells of the current "Peace process" now. He says and when they shall say Peace and Safetly, sudden destruction will come upon them. you dont have much time
luettem 1 year ago
@luettem I would suggest you take a look at the God and science website. As for the other thing, show me.
upsilon054 1 year ago
@upsilon054 God says all of mans highest "wisdom" is as foolishness to Him, you had better look to the Word. It is the only truth that exists in a world in which satan is prince and power of the air. You asked what is about to happen? Israel faces two wars, One for Hate sake, one for Plunder. The next thing that concerns the believers is the catching away, then Tribulation. A man will soon rise up in the midst of econ. and turmoil who will claim he can correct everything and bring peace.
luettem 1 year ago
@upsilon054 Many assume wrongly they are a child of God, but have attempted to come thru another door, Jesus said "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life, no man comes unto the Father except thru Me". Some think if they live a "good" life, they are fine, but all have sinned and come short of the Glory of God. So unless one has been redeemed thru Christ, they will face judgment.
luettem 1 year ago
@HonestDiscussioner This is why God gave several signs for the End. But one of the most prominant is Israel. He said He would again gather then from all over the world, make them a nation again, and cause their land to blossom. They now send tulips to Holland. But the generation that see this, will be the last one. They became a nation in 1948, you really dont have much time to make the right decision. Once tribulation begins, few will survive, those who rejected Christ, will be deluded.
luettem 1 year ago
@HonestDiscussioner Christ said, when you see these things begin to take place, look up for your redemption draweth nigh. He is coming soon, to take His Bride, then return to destroy all those who rejected Him, and those who come against Israel.
luettem 1 year ago
@HonestDiscussioner The fishing village can barely count. Old Tyre has been bare as a rock for 2500 years as God said, even though 10 million gallons of fresh water supply the site daily with enough water for a city. The city has not been rebuilt even today.
luettem 1 year ago
@luettem If it was nothing but a bare rock for fishermen to cast their nets, why did Alexander spend SEVEN MONTHS laying siege to it and conquering it hundreds of years later after Neb?
HonestDiscussioner 1 year ago
@HonestDiscussioner now back to the issue at hand, God said the generation that see's Israel become a nation again in one day, it the last generation before ALL prophecy is fulfilled. Which, would leave you in an extremely poor position. I might suggest you find out exactly what God Said, if He said it, It WILL happen.
luettem 1 year ago
@HonestDiscussioner Knowing the Word, and a personal relationship with Christ is the ONLY reason I can exist in Peace, If I lived in this time, and did not know Him, I would be scared spitless, knowing what is coming. Chuck Missler does a study on Revelation as well, and I suggest you spend your immediate future, finding out what is coming, or you may find your immediate future, extreemly unpleasant.
luettem 1 year ago
@luettem "Knowing the Word, and a personal relationship with Christ is the ONLY reason I can exist in Peace"...I couldn't feel more sorry for you, believing what I believe is utter nonsense and lies. I also must admit to feeling anger because people like you continue to perpetrate this childish, fairy tale nonsense which keeps mankind from moving forward, out of the Dark Ages and into an a reasonable, logical, REAL future.
cecinid 1 year ago
@cecinid So your take on the world is that it is moving "Where"? The truth is God said He would have to cut the days short because man would completly destroy himself. And as you watch Korea, Iran, Islam, etc, the reality becomes evident. No, the world is not moving out of the dark ages, in fact, just watching Islam encroaching, is a lesson of simple barbarians, so continue to hide in your padded room, shortly (very) you will be unpleasantly awakened to the truth.
luettem 1 year ago
@luettem My take on the world is that we are moving TOWARD another Dark Ages, due to simplistic, idiotic FAIRY TALE BELIEVERS such as yourself. Your religion, ALL religion IS WRONG, period. There IS a power out there, but NO RELIGION has it RIGHT. 'You will be awakened to the truth'...spoken like a true sheeple. You go right ahead and think you are 'right'...don't mind me, I will be laughinmg my ass off right over here...
cecinid 1 year ago
@cecinid No, you will not be standing laughing, Your position will be to enter Tribulation, and the final Wrath of God. There will be no place to hide, a billion will die in just one event, more to follow. The leaders of the earth will be hiding to escape, but no escape, will be afforded. Christ is coming to destroy all those who rejected Him, and the countries coming against Israel. Prophecy is being fulfilled daily, Russia, Iran, Turkey , nuclear war, and far more. Trust in man will fall
luettem 1 year ago
@cecinid Satans most simple lie, is that there is no God, But even He fears the wrath of God, as he knows his time is short. He hates man, and will take as many with him as possible. Including you. Deception is his best game, and you have fallen hook, line and sinker. no you wont be laughing, but will rehearse over and over the times you could have made a better descion, and refused your only way out.
luettem 1 year ago
@cecinid As to it being a fairy tale, 100% accuracy is never a fairy tale, but could be considered absolute TRUTH. Your invisionment of a wonderful man made world? Now THAT is a fairy tale
luettem 1 year ago
@luettem 'ACCURACY'??! PLEASE! Talking snakes, Adam and Eve's kids having INCEST to populate the world, and on and on...It's a laughable book of FABLES, not REALITY...wake UP!!
cecinid 1 year ago
@cecinid yes, accuracy, and we are not talking snakes, but Satan, who is a murderer and liar from the beginning, just the prophecy concerning the first coming of Christ- to be fulfilled mathematecally would be like covering the state of Texas with silver dollars five feet deep, marking one, you blindfolded, finding it first try, for His second coming there are hundreds more. He came the first time and will come again. There is no prophecy in the Bible unfulfilled. At 100%, that leave you at 0
luettem 1 year ago
@luettem THERE IS NO SATAN!!! Its a book of FAIRY TALES, not ONE of which has 'come true'...thats ALL people like you twisting reality to FIT your fable book...hell, you can make ANYTHING seem to fit that silly shit IF YOU WANT IT TO. Its all BS, its all LIES and tall tales...you go right ahead believing otherwise, and as I said: I will continue to LAUGH at you for it...PERIOD.
cecinid 1 year ago
@cecinid ause you have no knowledge of prophecy,and thus declare it is untrue, do you think that you have dimissed God? ignorance will be no excuse. All of it has come true, precise, empires predicted, their fall, rulers, kings, times, places, All has taken place just as written. No, you personal ignorance will not be an excuse
luettem 1 year ago
@luettem Gee, three replies...a LOT of defending of your 'opinions' here. Funny thing: religious types who really are content in their beliefs, the ones that truly believe...will simply smile and shake their heads at those who disagree with them...the ones that respond over and over, the ones that feel a NEED to continue trying to force their silly views...are the ones that have DOUBT. That speaks VOLUMES about your sancamoneous, pompous 'I know the TRUTH!' postings here, doesnt it?
cecinid 1 year ago
@cecinid If you were standing in a burning building, would you prefer someone just ignore you preference not to come out? Or would you appreciate their continued effort to tell you of your perilous situation? You ARE standing in a burning building, you are ignorant of what is coming, ignorant of just how accurate, and precise, God has been in prophecy. Yes I hope it does say something as to someone trying to tell you.
luettem 1 year ago
@cecinid I have studied the bible for over 61 years, and the Truth is, you are wrong. Clinging to lies, and standing on sand. What God said will happen, it always has, and alway will. No matter if you choose to believe it or not. But I do care, because God does. Christ payed the price for your freedom from the chains of sin and death. But its"your life" and 'Your Choice"
luettem 1 year ago
@luettem "I have studied the bible for over 61 years"...Then you have WASTED 61 years of your life...that's sad. "Christ payed the price for your freedom"...THERE WAS/IS NO CHRIST!!! I'm sorry you are delusional, and buy into this shit...I DO NOT. I deal in FACTS and REALITY...you continue to attempt to 'save' someone that does NOT WANT, BELIEVE or NEED it- you continue to PROVE my point-were you secure in your beliefs you would SHUT UP- go ahead, prove me wrong...DO NOT REPLY.
cecinid 1 year ago
@luettem No WHERE in the bible. Chapter and verse.
HonestDiscussioner 1 year ago
@HonestDiscussioner i see, rather then learning exactly what is coming with a complete study of Gods Word so you have become knowledgable enough to have no doubt as to His existance, exact statements, you want an easy way out. It also tells of over a BILLION people dying at one time, the effects of a nuclear bomb on the troops and how they will clean up after. i think being lazy at this point would not be in your best interest.
luettem 1 year ago
@HonestDiscussioner You remind me of a person who while standing in a burning building, asks how "hot" it will be before moving toward the exit. What is coming goes far beyond the nuclear aspect, that is only part. Gods Wrath will make that look like childsplay. So continue to avoid any further knowledge. but its "your" life, right?
luettem 1 year ago
@luettem why do you keep stating random events just answer me one question how old is the earth? oh wait you said its a book of prophecy not a book of truth that makes more sense sorry for bothering you lol.
sharkshockey19 1 year ago
@sharkshockey19 Sorry to have missed your question. Gods spirit hovered over the face of the deep before creating what we see now. Consequently, materials, age of those materials, is unknown. I believe the current earth in its present form was created as God said it was. I also believe man was given 6,000 years, the 7th will be the millinium. As to mans "calculations" I see failure from every aspect from failing darwinism to the now paniced idea Alians created DNA. So mans wisdom is foolishness
luettem 1 year ago
@luettem I agree mans wisdom is foolish because how could someone truly believe that the earth is 6 thousand years old when carbon dating shows that the dinosaur fossils that are all over this earth are about 100 million years old, now if you don't believe in carbon dating which is impossible, then in my mind I believe you were brain washed as a child to believe in a creator, maybe I'm wrong maybe you were brought up in an atheist family and you found a bible and figured this has to be correct.
sharkshockey19 1 year ago
@sharkshockey19 "mans carbon dating?", Did you know dinos lived with man? Gosh, thats interesting, of course that cant be true-the evidence must be wrong. God even speaks of them in Job. The honest truth is, God made the earth as it stands 5, 993 years ago, at 6,000, He will reign as King of Kings, and Lord of Lords, and you can discuss mans wisdom with the Creator of all things, You dont have much time -read Revelations, it is about to be upclose and personal.
luettem 1 year ago
@luettem I realize your pretty brainwashed so i will talk to you in a different manner. How bout this now I don't believe that there is a God , now my question to you is why would a God create someone who had a mind that made him not want to believe in a God. and why would I be punished if he created me, shouldn't it be his fault for screwing up my brain chemistry. Can you give me some points that dont involve going back to a book that couldve been written by anyone.you should read up on darwin.
sharkshockey19 1 year ago
@sharkshockey19 So wrong about the Book, it would only take seconds. Listen to Chuck Missler on the Authrenticity of the Bible, for its infalibility. Your "brain' is just fine, but satan has decieved you, which is why Christ took the keys of Sin and Death from satan on the Cross. So you do have a way to be FREE. Now, read Isaiah 24-It is a picture of the earth in the last days. and what you will be facing. This generation will not pass away, until all is fulfilled.
luettem 1 year ago
@luettem we obviously are never going to get on the same page so I will just say this to you I will stick to not putting my faith in something that shows no proof and actually has a substantial amount of proof against it and you stick to believing your almighty god. and then when we die you will either go to a magical place known as heaven or you will go nowhere, and for me I will either go to hell or nowhere and thats okay with me if some magical higher power wants me in hell then send me there
sharkshockey19 1 year ago
@sharkshockey19 you have been putting your faith in something that is nothing but conjecture already, even the evolutionists, are baffled at DNA, Bill Gates looked at it, and said it is a far more intricate computer program then anything on earth, computer programs have a creator. your last statement if one of ignorance, I suggest a travel brochure, great story as well. Google Ian McCormack, listen to the Revelation TV episode, just so you can possibly not go for a walk in Iran.
luettem 1 year ago
@luettem There is no evidence for this outside the Bible. None. There is no evidence that dinosaurs roamed Earth with men. And where did that exact number of years (5993 years) come from?
upsilon054 1 year ago
@sharkshockey19 As to "random" events, no they are not random. God said He would tell the End from the Beginning so you would KNOW He is God. He did. All men know there is a God, but fill life full of deception to counter that knowledge. As it falls apart, more deception. I would highly suggest reading Revelations, as you are most certainly going to see it in its entirety. God said, "and when they say, Peace and Safetly, Sudden destruction will come upon them" havent you been listening lately?
luettem 1 year ago
I understand your argument for allowing Creationism to just basically discredit itself.... But you will never get them to budge from their favorite answer when it becomes obvious to everyone their claims don't make sense. "You just got to have faith!"
AdamTh1 1 year ago
@AdamTh1 Sure, but they can't really argue that in a science class! Eventually creationists will just give up and not want it in the classrooms, content to indoctrinate people and give false information in their churches and on street corners.
HonestDiscussioner 1 year ago
@AdamTh1 only problem is if you get a teacher who is slanted towards creationism and then with a doctored presentation, it's the opposite of discrediting itself, but re-affirming itself. Plus if it openly allowed, creationists will think they have their foot in the door as a valid science.
TrooperCX 1 year ago
wow...just wow. i really think that you have an actual point :)
vivalafiaga 1 year ago
If there were infinite time in the classroom, I'd agree that this is a good idea. But there isn't.. there's already a ton of more important things that aren't being taught..
newexperiment 1 year ago
@newexperiment Well this would sort of be to inoculate science class. It's like Chicken pox. You let it happen to yourself so that you'll never have to have it again. A few years of teaching creationism next to evolution and showing how creationism is totally untenable before they never ask to have it included again.
HonestDiscussioner 1 year ago
@HonestDiscussioner I undesrtand the argument 100%. I would agree if it took 30 years for children to finish high school, but it doesn't. There is a limited amount of classes that children take before they graduate. While your argument if fine for a reason why such a course would not be a poor choice. It is not in any way an argument for this class being MORE Beneficial than critical thinking, or any of the other possible classes in the limited amount of classes. And Indeed I thin it fails this.
newexperiment 1 year ago
As I watched this I was crushing a pack of Ramen noodles with a rock like a caveman.
OmniZodd 1 year ago
Marvelous!
TimothyStuartRiches 1 year ago
Congrats on your award HD, I think youi should have won it sooner. TheoWarner won the halo seems a little of to me.
bossman103 1 year ago
@bossman103 Thank you B-man.
HonestDiscussioner 1 year ago
Teaching creation in a science class seems irrelevant. The reason, in my opinion, is that science class should stay focused on science. However, optional classes (at least at the beginning) for "Science Theory" or "Pre-Science" could be put up, teaching what is science. Not just what scientists have discovered, but rather what is the process, and what is and isn't science based on those definitions.
goal2004 1 year ago
@goal2004 I really only recommend we do it so that creationists will realize the error of their ways and demand that creationism be kept out of the classroom. Basically, it's like chicken pox, you get it so that you never have to worry about getting it again.
HonestDiscussioner 1 year ago
@HonestDiscussioner
I completely understand the rationale behind your intentions, but I think my suggestion would give them the satisfaction while also denying it to them at the same time.
goal2004 1 year ago
Very interesting argument ... From what I have been seeing in the news, however, any "criticism" of the religious view of creationism might end up in court under First Amendment and "viewpoint discrimination" arguments. So comparing the creationism arguments with scientific arguments would need to follow a pretty rigorous set of rules to make sure there are no lawsuits.
GodDiscussion 1 year ago
That's an interesting take. Maybe that's exactly what they should do. It would certainly be entertaining to see what the outcome would be.
gambleor 1 year ago
ok we have been having a mature debate. It is engaging and involves critical thinking. You believe in free speech from 1 of your other captions. Shouldn't students have that right in classrooms to be presented w/ 2 sides of an issue. From Fox news the statistic said over 90% of Americans believe in God. The majority. Does free speech only begin after highschool? Please name some recent murderous Christians please. Mother Theresa?
misskellycarmen 1 year ago
@misskellycarmen Statistically only 1% of people in jail are atheist, while we are at least 10% of the population. There was a murder suicide by a christian here on Youtube named Tony for example. It is just statistically, a higher percentage of Christians murder than atheists.
And free speech pertains to what students say in the classroom, not what they are taught. If 99% of people believed 1 + 1 = 3 that is not an excuse to teach it. It isn't math, and creationism has no scientific backing.
HonestDiscussioner 1 year ago
@misskellycarmen Science is an open discipline however. If you want to have it taught in the classroom, merely submit a paper that meets scientific criteria. If indeed a WORLDWIDE flood happened, that is bound to leave a mountain of evidence. The thing is creationists simply can't do that, the "evidence" they find is generally based off of misunderstandings of geology and has been debunked for hundreds of years.
HonestDiscussioner 1 year ago
@misskellycarmen And the funny thing about mother teresa . . she tried to hard to find god, dedicated her life to that ideal, and yet after her death letters were released where she confessed to her superiors that she never felt the love of god. Not once. Despite all her hard work, god (if he exists) abandoned her her entire life.
HonestDiscussioner 1 year ago
@misskellycarmen this is not about freespeech, you can NOT teach non-science in science class, no matter how many people get butt hurt if you dont and like he said, you teach one creation myth, teach them ALL but you cant because none are science, you can teach christians or muslims etc creation myth in mythology, sure, but you cant teach it as if its true. would you want people to also teach flat earth? hey, its just freedom of speech, right?
blazereef 1 year ago
ok did quick research : problems with theory of evolution1.How did the universe come about 2. How could living creatures come from non-living life 3. How could new genetic information arise4. 1000's of new fossils of apes & humans have now been found-they don't show a steady progression from apes to humans at all Selfish eternal reward?So people can do all the evil/good they want& it doesn't matter in the end? How do u have hope if u think there is nothing more than this?
misskellycarmen 1 year ago
@misskellycarmen 1. That has nothing to do with evolution. That's cosmology. You might as well ask how the evolution accounts for the rotation of the earth. If you want me to answer how the universe came about without god, I can do that, but that's a separate question. Feel free to ask it.
2. I will send you a link to a video that describes it better than I can.
3. See #2.
4. That's not true. We have found fossils with a very steady progression from apes to humans.
cont.
HonestDiscussioner 1 year ago
@misskellycarmen 5. Hope? Hope for what? If I die, true, I will not exist anymore. This is an unpleasant reality, but it is reality all the same. My hope is mostly in the next generation, my children (when I am able to have them), as evolution would imply. But these things speak nothing to whether or not it is TRUE. It may have everything to do with whether you WANT it to be true, or whether it is a HAPPY fact, but facts are independent of our desire for them to be true or false.
HonestDiscussioner 1 year ago
how do you respond so fast? Well all I can say is some people need proof to believe but faith is believing not seeing and when everyone dies hopefully a long long time from now they will find out the truth. U should watch that movie with Julia Roberts & Kieffer sutherland where they try a science experiment and experiment with ndes. I would say find someone you know who has experienced an nde. I thought MUslims hated Jesus. I will pray for u still but will not check feel hot blooded now.
misskellycarmen 1 year ago
@misskellycarmen "how do you respond so fast?" This is my video. I get notified the moment I get any messages. Well technically that depends. Sometimes Youtube lags, taking DAYS to notify me of a comment being posted!
Islam is called an Abrahamic religion because it technically worships the same god as Judaism & Christianity. Allah is the Arabic name for Yahwey I think. In Islam, Jesus is one of the great profits but not god incarnate. Mohummad purported met Jesus on his "night vision".
HonestDiscussioner 1 year ago
@misskellycarmen You mean flatliners? I saw it a while back if that is the movie you are talking about. I've read up on NDE's before, they are very consistent with what we'd expect to see if the brain is either under trauma or deprived of oxygen. We can actually recreate these experience in the lab using the "god helmet". It sends electromagnetic waves into your brain and can cause you to have experiences of hell\heaven\Jesus, though most frequently there is feeling of being outside your body.
HonestDiscussioner 1 year ago
part 2-hope 1st part went thru. 2 students who were bullied were so enraged & unforgiving they went on a rampage. 3rd grade students plotted to murder their teacher in the U.S. Timothy McVAe was so enraged- at an adult level that he blew up a building. television is pure violence. ie. Dexter & criminal minds Intellectual books say forget about God. They don't teach forgiveness nor virtues. God exists because evil exists.ie. Hitler, ouijji boards- don't try it it exposes people to bad things
misskellycarmen 1 year ago
@misskellycarmen If you believe that atheism is a detriment to society, why do atheists have the lowest divorce rates & the lowest level of violent crimes? You can point to instances of atheists doing evil, but for each you point to I can point to 10 who base their evil on Christianity. I know you get comfort from your belief but in the end it is emptiness. You can love and forgive without religion, I do it all the time. You can do it for the sake of doing it, not for some selfish eternal reward
HonestDiscussioner 1 year ago
@misskellycarmen an argument for the existence of god that says - Evil exists so therefor God Exists, is an argument from ignorance. You cannot provide evedince of god and the because the bible says so is not anywhere close to good enough. When will you believers get a clue and get some evidence?? oh wait, there isn't any
TrooperCX 1 year ago
You are obviously intelligent & like to debate but you are not going to convince me nor am I going to convince you. from u tube I have found that many people have converted after having near death experiences. ie. Howard Storm(former atheist) and many muslim people. There are many intellectual textbooks out like Darwin's theory but it doesn't teach about love or forgiveness as far as I know. The world is going down the drain as a result of secularism in schools. Examples: Columbine
misskellycarmen 1 year ago
@misskellycarmen Ah yes, I saw a study on conversions on NDE experiences. I did a video on it a while back. You are right, they are an excellent catalyst for conversion. Unfortunately they don't just convert to Christians, they are equally as likely to convert to any number of other religions. It is of course telling that Muslims have the highest conversion rate to Christianity, since they are the only ones that have Jesus in their religion. Few if any hindus see him when they have an NDE.
HonestDiscussioner 1 year ago
@misskellycarmen As far as Columbine, that was not the result of secularism. At most those kids misunderstood evolution, but even if they didn't, that speaks nothing to whether or not it is true. The evidence speaks for itself, if not for evolutionary theory, nothing in biology would make sense, and we would not be able to produce anti-biotics like we do today. It is a more solid theory than gravity.
HonestDiscussioner 1 year ago
@misskellycarmen Now if you want love and forgiveness, you need to study the evolution of morality. That does speak to those things, but I doubt the people that tell you about evolution go into that particular detail. It's a very advanced subject, so I can't say I blame them.
And you can convince me, you just need to give me evidence that evolution did not happen. I find it difficult to believe that you can, the theory is as solid as it gets. Why can't I convince you though?
HonestDiscussioner 1 year ago