People who don't understand SONAR or it's uses/necessity are just rambling here. They've jumped on this particular bandwagon and nothing you can say or do will knock them off of it. If you show them the physics of sound in water as well as explain the db levels that whales and dolphins transmit, they'd just scratch their head and say "i don't understand this, but YOU ARE KILLING WHALES!" In my personal experience, dolphins love MF active SONAR, but hey, what do i know? 10 years experience.
War is just a game. It does not matter who dies. Governments just do anything they want. What is the perfect Navy record? 100% killed by military forces of what ever is in their way (human or other)? They can't find a sub how are they going to find a fish?
you got Sued biotch. ok, just because you cant see cfc's depleting the ozone doesnt mean whales arent fucking dying like a mofo. 173 decibels is IMMENSE. like a nuclear explosion. a jet engine is something like 140. 143dB is twice as loud as 140dB. they lower their sonar 6 decibels when a whale is within 1000 meters. that is 167 decibels still! that is 2x 2x 2x 2x 2x 2x 2x 2x 2x times louder than a jet engine. that is exponential. that is 256 times LOUDER than a jet engine! why dont you try that
@minus00 You're a complete idiot. Decibels in water are not the same as an air (look up reference pressure). Using your own numbers against you, blue whales have a maximum power of 190 or so dB when they're singing. Sperm whale echolocation clicks are on the order of 220 dB. Killer whales echolocate at around 170-180 dB. The last time I checked, blue whales and sperm whales don't explode when they sing. Learn how physics and acoustics work before running your mouth.
@magicstix0r So at what pressure do Whales explode? They cannot be sure they haven't effected anything. Just because no whales had washed up didn't mean they hadn't died. And may be evidence that these devices have harmed wildlife in other parts of the world besides just southern California.
@minus00 And where is this evidence? Correlation does not equal cause; assuming anything else is a confirmation bias. Furthermore, how can we take your "evidence" seriously when you can't even get your basic measurement frame of reference correct? There have been dolphins bow-riding the wake off of destroyers while their sonars are active, yet they weren't injured. Far more whales have been confirmed killed by boatstrike than suspected by sonar. The physics and the physiology just don't add up.
@magicstix0r Sound moves easier through water than it does through air. By the way it sounds, any evidence found would instantly be looked at as falsifiable by you, and you are telling me I have a confirmation bias. This isn't the same regular old SONAR. When you strike a whale, you can confirm it, because you hit a fucking whale.
@minus00 I'm not sure one thing you said there made any sense. What does the permeability of sound in water vs air have to do with anything? Inverse spreading laws still apply exactly the same. And yes, I would be able to falsify any "evidence" you present because i'm using simple physics, which don't support the hypothesis that whales "explode" when ensonified by SONAR. As far as "...same regular old SONAR" goes, I'm guessing you're just rambling at that point...
@magicstix0r Sound moves easier through water than it does through air. That is one reason whales are able to communicate over hundreds of miles. This is apparently mid-frequency, high-intensity SONAR. How easy would it be for the Navy or any other government organization to cover up wrong-doings? Very easy, it happens all the time. This SONAR does nothing for my safety.
@minus00 OK It seems you've gone off the deep end. Coverup? Really? Do you wear a tin foil hat to go with your conspiracy theories? Whales communicate in the deep sound channel using low frequency vocalizations because low frequencies travel farther. The SONAR does nothing for your safety? It's obvious at this point you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
@magicstix0r Are you simple? Yes, your government, covers up anything it can that compromises its mission. Abu Ghraib, torture in general, civilian casualties, wiretapping, false flag operations, state sponsored terrorism, blatant and deceitful war mongering, outright criminal neglect, espionage, the direct infection of citizens with disease; all these things have been done, covered up, and exposed. What are the masses of "know not's"? It is true that wales use relatively low f, but @ ~low SPL.
@minus00 Not that it is the slightest bit relevant to the topic at hand, the government didn't cover up Abu Ghraib. They prosecuted everyone involved when they found out about it. A General who had nothing to do with the scandal had her career destroyed over it simply because she was in the chain of command. Drink more of that drugged Kool-aid.
@magicstix0r Furthermore, what the flying fuck do I need HI-MF-SONAR for? Unless you are using it to scramble the brains of the Tuna you use to feed the starving, I don't need it, you don't need it, and whoever is hired to press the dimmer switch on the sound LASER can be terminated. In water it seems the reference for sound is a Log 20 less than in air. If I understood wikipedia right. 1 uPa versus 20 uPa. So if a dolphin (which the Navy has been washing up for years) comes nearer than 1Km, owy
@minus00 You still don't understand the physics involved in the slightest bit. At 1km using the BEST CASE SCENARIO you will have AT LEAST 60 dB of attenuation due to cylindrical spreading. That's an isovelocity case, and the ocean seldom supports isovelocity propagation, so it's very likely you will have even MORE attenuation at those ranges. If the environmentalists REALLY want to save the whales they should do something about merchant shipping noise, which is far worse than sonar by far.
@magicstix0r Are you kidding? About dolphins swimming aside destroyers with the killer SONAR on? Surely you cannot provide a shred of evidence but anecdotal. Is this something is told in a story, or that you know to be true? For some reason, I assume there is a significant difference between this technology, and the differently frequented, less intense variety. Otherwise, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Dolphins use a variety of Sonar to locate food. They become discombobulated. URWhack
@minus00 The SQS53C has been in use for almost 40 years now. It's nothing new. There is no new magic deathray sonar out there. The only reason this is an issue is because some lawyers found out they could make money forcing the Navy to pay for a suit against itself under the Equal Justice Under the Law act. These lawyers are charging something on the order of $800 an hour to file these suits, and the Navy has to pay for it.
True, subs are hard to find and take out. If a country wanted a first strike, it would make sense to want to wipe out the opposition's subs, but even it possible it would be fruitless since the bulk of the attack would be from ICBMs.
The Navy's own research can't be trusted. They have a history of deceit, and, they're a vested interest in this case. Besides, the evidence is clear that there is a problem. I suggest you watch the NRDC videos.
I have seen the videos as per your request. But there is a strategy involved getting the ICBMs past SPY radar utilized by CG and DDG class ships and surfaced submarine radar equipment with the ability to intercept the ICMBs. The evidence might seem deceitful from the US, and foreign allies, but perhaps other matters are involved in which you restricted to be knowledgeable of.
So what if we go to war again and the enemy sends out 10 ballistic submarines carrying 24+ nucleaur warheads? Still going to complain about sonar? Yea right. There are now preventative measures in place that we follow...watch the video thoroughly next time.
Submarines are an obsolete weapons system for warhead delivery and are largely an artifact of subsidized spending for one branch of the military. "The enemy" can deliver nuclear warheads by other means. And so can we.
Your "preventative measures" don't seem to work all that well, or aren't practiced consistently, judging from the carnage that's been documented. See watch?v=j8rZxmCejD0
No they aren't. The SPY radar on CG, DDG & land based systems take care of the celestial strikes you are thinking of. Subs are harder to find and new ones are made every year because of the tactics involved, and are harder to find.
The video failed to mentioned that the NAVY researched the effects of sonar on whales. How about you research about the LFA sonar that gave you tree huggers an uproar to begin with.
If you were 1000 meters from the Saturn V2 launch would your ears still bleed? Don't you remember the cold war? Wait I hear something at my door. Oh no! Hougy6 was right. Ahhhhhh....not
People who don't understand SONAR or it's uses/necessity are just rambling here. They've jumped on this particular bandwagon and nothing you can say or do will knock them off of it. If you show them the physics of sound in water as well as explain the db levels that whales and dolphins transmit, they'd just scratch their head and say "i don't understand this, but YOU ARE KILLING WHALES!" In my personal experience, dolphins love MF active SONAR, but hey, what do i know? 10 years experience.
TheCrapocalypse 5 months ago
War is just a game. It does not matter who dies. Governments just do anything they want. What is the perfect Navy record? 100% killed by military forces of what ever is in their way (human or other)? They can't find a sub how are they going to find a fish?
usmcoth 10 months ago
you got Sued biotch. ok, just because you cant see cfc's depleting the ozone doesnt mean whales arent fucking dying like a mofo. 173 decibels is IMMENSE. like a nuclear explosion. a jet engine is something like 140. 143dB is twice as loud as 140dB. they lower their sonar 6 decibels when a whale is within 1000 meters. that is 167 decibels still! that is 2x 2x 2x 2x 2x 2x 2x 2x 2x times louder than a jet engine. that is exponential. that is 256 times LOUDER than a jet engine! why dont you try that
minus00 3 years ago
@minus00 You're a complete idiot. Decibels in water are not the same as an air (look up reference pressure). Using your own numbers against you, blue whales have a maximum power of 190 or so dB when they're singing. Sperm whale echolocation clicks are on the order of 220 dB. Killer whales echolocate at around 170-180 dB. The last time I checked, blue whales and sperm whales don't explode when they sing. Learn how physics and acoustics work before running your mouth.
magicstix0r 1 year ago
@magicstix0r So at what pressure do Whales explode? They cannot be sure they haven't effected anything. Just because no whales had washed up didn't mean they hadn't died. And may be evidence that these devices have harmed wildlife in other parts of the world besides just southern California.
minus00 1 year ago
@minus00 And where is this evidence? Correlation does not equal cause; assuming anything else is a confirmation bias. Furthermore, how can we take your "evidence" seriously when you can't even get your basic measurement frame of reference correct? There have been dolphins bow-riding the wake off of destroyers while their sonars are active, yet they weren't injured. Far more whales have been confirmed killed by boatstrike than suspected by sonar. The physics and the physiology just don't add up.
magicstix0r 1 year ago
@magicstix0r Sound moves easier through water than it does through air. By the way it sounds, any evidence found would instantly be looked at as falsifiable by you, and you are telling me I have a confirmation bias. This isn't the same regular old SONAR. When you strike a whale, you can confirm it, because you hit a fucking whale.
minus00 1 year ago
@minus00 I'm not sure one thing you said there made any sense. What does the permeability of sound in water vs air have to do with anything? Inverse spreading laws still apply exactly the same. And yes, I would be able to falsify any "evidence" you present because i'm using simple physics, which don't support the hypothesis that whales "explode" when ensonified by SONAR. As far as "...same regular old SONAR" goes, I'm guessing you're just rambling at that point...
magicstix0r 1 year ago
@magicstix0r Sound moves easier through water than it does through air. That is one reason whales are able to communicate over hundreds of miles. This is apparently mid-frequency, high-intensity SONAR. How easy would it be for the Navy or any other government organization to cover up wrong-doings? Very easy, it happens all the time. This SONAR does nothing for my safety.
minus00 1 year ago
@minus00 OK It seems you've gone off the deep end. Coverup? Really? Do you wear a tin foil hat to go with your conspiracy theories? Whales communicate in the deep sound channel using low frequency vocalizations because low frequencies travel farther. The SONAR does nothing for your safety? It's obvious at this point you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
magicstix0r 1 year ago
@magicstix0r Are you simple? Yes, your government, covers up anything it can that compromises its mission. Abu Ghraib, torture in general, civilian casualties, wiretapping, false flag operations, state sponsored terrorism, blatant and deceitful war mongering, outright criminal neglect, espionage, the direct infection of citizens with disease; all these things have been done, covered up, and exposed. What are the masses of "know not's"? It is true that wales use relatively low f, but @ ~low SPL.
minus00 1 year ago
@minus00 Not that it is the slightest bit relevant to the topic at hand, the government didn't cover up Abu Ghraib. They prosecuted everyone involved when they found out about it. A General who had nothing to do with the scandal had her career destroyed over it simply because she was in the chain of command. Drink more of that drugged Kool-aid.
magicstix0r 1 year ago
@magicstix0r Furthermore, what the flying fuck do I need HI-MF-SONAR for? Unless you are using it to scramble the brains of the Tuna you use to feed the starving, I don't need it, you don't need it, and whoever is hired to press the dimmer switch on the sound LASER can be terminated. In water it seems the reference for sound is a Log 20 less than in air. If I understood wikipedia right. 1 uPa versus 20 uPa. So if a dolphin (which the Navy has been washing up for years) comes nearer than 1Km, owy
minus00 1 year ago
@minus00 You still don't understand the physics involved in the slightest bit. At 1km using the BEST CASE SCENARIO you will have AT LEAST 60 dB of attenuation due to cylindrical spreading. That's an isovelocity case, and the ocean seldom supports isovelocity propagation, so it's very likely you will have even MORE attenuation at those ranges. If the environmentalists REALLY want to save the whales they should do something about merchant shipping noise, which is far worse than sonar by far.
magicstix0r 1 year ago
@magicstix0r Are you kidding? About dolphins swimming aside destroyers with the killer SONAR on? Surely you cannot provide a shred of evidence but anecdotal. Is this something is told in a story, or that you know to be true? For some reason, I assume there is a significant difference between this technology, and the differently frequented, less intense variety. Otherwise, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Dolphins use a variety of Sonar to locate food. They become discombobulated. URWhack
minus00 1 year ago
@minus00 The SQS53C has been in use for almost 40 years now. It's nothing new. There is no new magic deathray sonar out there. The only reason this is an issue is because some lawyers found out they could make money forcing the Navy to pay for a suit against itself under the Equal Justice Under the Law act. These lawyers are charging something on the order of $800 an hour to file these suits, and the Navy has to pay for it.
magicstix0r 1 year ago
True, subs are hard to find and take out. If a country wanted a first strike, it would make sense to want to wipe out the opposition's subs, but even it possible it would be fruitless since the bulk of the attack would be from ICBMs.
The Navy's own research can't be trusted. They have a history of deceit, and, they're a vested interest in this case. Besides, the evidence is clear that there is a problem. I suggest you watch the NRDC videos.
SaganAppreciationSoc 4 years ago
I have seen the videos as per your request. But there is a strategy involved getting the ICBMs past SPY radar utilized by CG and DDG class ships and surfaced submarine radar equipment with the ability to intercept the ICMBs. The evidence might seem deceitful from the US, and foreign allies, but perhaps other matters are involved in which you restricted to be knowledgeable of.
hougy6 3 years ago
Presidential exemption? What a crock.
Lawrence Rice appears to be lying, judging from the evidence. But then this is government-produced news/propaganda.
SaganAppreciationSoc 4 years ago
So what if we go to war again and the enemy sends out 10 ballistic submarines carrying 24+ nucleaur warheads? Still going to complain about sonar? Yea right. There are now preventative measures in place that we follow...watch the video thoroughly next time.
hougy6 4 years ago
Submarines are an obsolete weapons system for warhead delivery and are largely an artifact of subsidized spending for one branch of the military. "The enemy" can deliver nuclear warheads by other means. And so can we.
Your "preventative measures" don't seem to work all that well, or aren't practiced consistently, judging from the carnage that's been documented. See watch?v=j8rZxmCejD0
SaganAppreciationSoc 4 years ago
No they aren't. The SPY radar on CG, DDG & land based systems take care of the celestial strikes you are thinking of. Subs are harder to find and new ones are made every year because of the tactics involved, and are harder to find.
The video failed to mentioned that the NAVY researched the effects of sonar on whales. How about you research about the LFA sonar that gave you tree huggers an uproar to begin with.
Love, a SONAR TECHNICIAN.
hougy6 4 years ago
If you were 1000 meters from the Saturn V2 launch would your ears still bleed? Don't you remember the cold war? Wait I hear something at my door. Oh no! Hougy6 was right. Ahhhhhh....not
awesomemusic888 2 years ago