Old Testament Troubles, Part 2 of 4, The Global Flood

[lizazoon]

The bible tells, the whole world was flooded, covering the highest peeks. HOW THE HELL DID THEY KNOW THE WHOLE EARTH WAS FLOODED ? They didn`t know the world was a sphere. They had no way of travellling or communicating with the other side of the world. That`s one simple sentence is evidence, the bible is BS

[ggcage]

@lizazoon Well, to be perfectly honest, they could not have known. However, this doesn't disprove the Bible. God would have known, being that He is omniscient, and that He started the flood in the first place.

[lizazoon]

@ggcage So. You claim that the bible is god`s word. LITTERALLY ???

[ggcage]

Yes. While it may seem crazy, one thing you have to realize is that if God could not do things that were physically impossible, then He wouldn't exactly be God. So it is only expected that the Bible would contain these things to substantiate its validity.

[lizazoon]

@ggcage Unfortunately, my dear, the flood has been proven fantasy. Civilizations have been unearthed, with no traces of any flood. Besides if you take the bible litterally as you say. I can tell you that out of 106 colleges, that form " the Christian coalition of Colleges " only 5 teach Genesis litterally. You see even your christian colleges don`t take the bible litterally. But I bet, you never read the bible, Otherwise you wouldn`t say that you take it litterally.

[ggcage]

@lizazoon Those things don't prove there never was a flood. There's a big difference between taking scripture literally and taking it out of context. The old laws of the ancient Jews were given to a very specific people for a very specific purpose, ultimately saving man. The Bible does not contradict science, and it does not promote atrocious behavior. It only appears so when it is twisted. If you truly seek God, you will find God. But if you only seek misunderstanding, then you'll get nowhere.

[lizazoon]

@ggcage ; So, when the bible says, you have to kill anyone caught gathering firewood on the Sabbath, you take that litterally ?

[tifforo1]

I have a question about God's morals, ethics, and resulting moral and ethical behavior. Are they principled or practical? In other words, are they:

Uniform or situational?

Absolute or pragmatic?

Uncompromising or nuanced?

Immutable or adaptable?

Methods-based or results-based?

Based mainly on what is right, or mainly on what is good?

Are they justified mainly by what happens before them, or by what happens after them?

Are some options off the table, or are all options considered?

[ggcage]

@tifforo1 Well T1, I would have to say all of the above. It should be realized that God, being omniscient, knows all the circumstances and results of a particular action in infinite detail. What people cannot possibly see, He sees. So it is safe to say that God's decisions are absolutely holy (Isaiah 6:3) and are ultimately for the good of all those who love Him (Romans 8:28).

[tifforo1]

@ggcage

Um, I was trying to present opposites.

It's like the PM I sent you about whether terrorism is ever justified. Under principled, absolute, methods-based morality, it could never be justified. But under pragmatic, results-based, situational morality, it could be justified if the benefits outweighed the (obviously high) harms when compared with the next-best option. We could also look at issues like whether a mother whose health is in danger ought to get an abortion.

[lizazoon]

@ggcage So god`s decision not to save 100.000 children dying under the rubble in Haiti, was a HOLY decision ?????????. God is either an amuzed sadist, enjoying human suffering or he is, at best an, indifferent spectator..

[ggcage]

@lizazoon Well, it is sad, but God is far from any of those things. I made a my main channel video on this subject, but I will go over it briefly here. Bad things happen not because of God, but because of a lack of God. Because mankind has polluted this world with sin, we are separated from God and His blessings, and that is why these things happen, but God was willing to pay our penalty on a cross so that we would not gave to be completely separated from Him forever.

[lizazoon]

@ggcage-- Bad things happen not because of God, but because of a lack of God. -- Tell me how diseases, earthquakes, floods, draughts, happen because of a lack of god. Thank you.

[ggcage]

@lizazoon Yes, those things are caused by germs, weather patterns and the earth's crust, but they are ultimately caused by separation from God. The laws of nature would work for us and not against us if it were not for mankind's rebellion. Anything that is separated from God is also separated from His blessings, and cannot be expected to be perfect. Our sin polluted world is no exception. But Christ died so that we would not have to be completely separated forever.

[lizazoon]

@ggcage I am sorry, my dear, but this is just bible school nonsense. No evidence whatsoever for your claims. Just tell me how separation from god, caused leprosy, or small-pox, or polio. Thank you. !!

[ggcage]

@lizazoon

Part I

Ok, I'll use an analogy. Suppose there is a rover on Mars being controlled by people on Earth. Everything is going fine, when suddenly the rover's communication system malfunctions. The people are still able to control the rover, but not with the precision they were able to, and this leads to all sorts of problems and malfunctions.

[ggcage]

P2

The separation between the rover and those on Earth is like the separation between us and God. The universe was originally meant to be in harmony w/ God. Because people's sins have separated it from God, the universe doesnt work like it should. The laws of nature are not quite what they were meant to be; they are not perfectly tuned for us.

For example, bacteria do not live in harmony with man, many species can kill him. Also, the weather is not perfectly tuned for man. It can kill him

[lizazoon]

@tifforo1 Bible morals

Gather firewood on the Sabbath, kill him

Gilrfriend is not a virgin at the wedding kill her

False prophets: kill them

Rebellious kids: kill tem

Anyone aproaching the tabernable; kill him.

People who profess other gods: kill them

And some people still have the guts to claim the bible is god`s word !!!!!

[ggcage]

@lizazoon One thing you have to realize is that in the OT God was talking to the ancient Jews, not us. At this time God was in the process of getting Jesus in this world so He could do His job, which required a particular culture/society. So anyone who threatened the anceint Jewish nation/culture/society also threatened everyones salvation. That is why God was so serious about these. We should be thankful that God was this serious about saving us, who did not deserve it

[lizazoon]

@ggcage --:One thing you have to realize is that in the OT God was talking to the ancient Jews, not us-- Totally wrong

;I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.--

[ggcage]

@lizazoon I know that Christians probably say this too much, but you really are taking it out of context. Jesus fulfilled the law. The law had its purpose (Jesus) and that purpose was fulfilled. We are not under the law because Christ has fulfilled it. We are not saved by the law; we are saved by Christ. Paul goes over this a lot in the book of Galatians, especially in the third chapter.

[michaelbme83]

@ggcage

The old testament yahweh is a douchebag. The new testament yahwey is also a douchebag, for sending people to hell.

[ggcage]

@michaelbme83

Part I

Well, what you have to realize is that God is holy. He cannot allow sin to go unpunished. You may not like what God has done, but that doesn't change the fact that He is God and Lord of all. His will is holy and righteous and if you can't see that then it is you that is wrong, not Him. God is not bound by what we think is right, but by His own righteous nature.

[ggcage]

@michaelbme83

Part II

Morality is based on God's nature, not what we feel like is right. Every culture has its own set of right and wrong, but it is God's rules that are the true, objective rules of morality.

But you really should not say such things about God, considering that He was willing to come to earth and bear all of the infinite penalty for your sin while He was on the cross. The gift of salvation is the greatest given, and it would be a great tragedy if it were wasted.

[tifforo1]

Were there Nephilim on every continent?

4:16

Because God couldn't just, you know, strike the Nephilim dead without drowning baby squirrels, submerging dove eggs, forcing freshwater and saltwater fish to live together, and royally screwing up the geological column in a way that causes people to believe in evolution, etc.

4:28

Which shows that a "straight" reading of the Bible gives a view of human nature that is exaggerated and completely unrealistic.

Mercy =/= Genocide

[ggcage]

Were the Nephilim on every continent? I honestly don't know.

I'm going to be perfectly honest, I don't know every reason behind every action of God. But the thing is that all the animals, regardless of how cute we may hold them to be, are still a part of this fallen sinful world, and are subject to death.

[ggcage]

The seed of woman represents Jesus. Since women don't have seed, it indicates that Jesus would be born of a virgin. It also says that Satan would hurt Jesus some (bruise on heel = crucixion) and Jesus would hurt Satan a lot (bruise on head = saving man from sin).

I'm not necessarily an expert on this particular subject, but its not so much that angels have sex organs as much as it is that they can appear in various physical forms, including fully functional human figures with compatible DNA.

[tifforo1]

@ggcage

Genesis 3:15, English Standard Version 15And I will put enmity Between you and the woman, And between your seed and her seed; He shall bruise you on the head, And you shall bruise him on the heel."

It says that the offspring of the woman and the offspring of the serpent will bruise each other. Most other translations besides the NIV also say that the woman's offspring will "bruise" rather than "crush" the serpent.

[tifforo1]

@ggcage

Your description of the use of the word "seed" in the King James Bible is off.

Genesis 16:10 (KJV) 10And the angel of the LORD said unto her, I will multiply thy seed exceedingly, that it shall not be numbered for multitude.

Genesis 24:60 (KJV)

"60And they blessed Rebekah, and said unto her, Thou art our sister, be thou the mother of thousands of millions, and let thy seed possess the gate of those which hate them. "

What's this about women not having seed?

[ggcage]

Part I

I see, but there are couple of things that should be noted. Hagar was pregnant, so technically she did have seed. Rebekah, like Eve, was an ancestor of Jesus. More importantly though, prophecy is not like a weather forecast. Its purpose is not to let people precisely what's going to happen ahead of time.

[ggcage]

Part II

If you've ever seen a movie that had a very surprising plot twist to it, you'll notice that prior to the twist, the movie has has subtle hints throughout it that indicate the plot twist, but nothing explicit enough to spoil it. That is the way Bible prophecy is. It's purpose is to let us know that God has always been in control so we can praise Him.

It isn't explicit because that's not it's purpose, and it would affect the course of history and hence, the fulfillment of the prophecy.

[tifforo1]

@ggcage

If the serpent is Satan, the offspring of woman is Jesus, and Genesis 3:15 is a prophesy, then in order for the prophesy to be fulfilled, Satan would have to have children, and Jesus and those children would have to bruise each other.

[tifforo1]

@ggcage

What I mean is this. You said it was a prophesy because 1.The damage to the serpent was greater and 2. women don't have seed. I pointed out that 1. The word used to describe the damage inflicted on each side is the same and 2. seed means descendants. Also, note that it doesn't say the serpent vs. the woman's seed, it says the serpent's seed vs. the woman's seed.

[ggcage]

You're right. It isn't very explicit at all, but it's not supposed to be. Prophecy isn't a weather forecast. The purpose of prophecy is to make allusions to the future so that we living after the event realize that God knew what was going on, but to necessarily make the future clear to those living before. For example, if people in the OT knew the details of the life of Christ, then so would Satan. It would then be very easy for him to fool people with false Messiahs and lead many astray.

[tifforo1]

@ggcage

Your post seems to suggest that Satan experiences time in the same way that we do. Do you believe this to be the case? If so, does this also apply to angels who never "fall" from heaven?

[ggcage]

@tifforo1 Yes. Everyone experiences time in a similar way that we do, including all the angels. Only God the Father is outside of time. (Matt. 24:36)

[lizazoon]

@ggcage Outside of time and space is a theological concept that means nothing. In fact it`s a contradictio in terminis. It is a contradiction in itself. As soon as there is something, there is time and space.

[ggcage]

@lizazoon With objects bound by time and space, yes there does require time and space for them to exist. But not everything is bound by time and space. For example, numbers are outside time and space. Is there a place/time you can see the number 3? Not a symbol for the number 3, and not 3 things, but the number itself. No, there is not, because numbers are outside spacetime. However, they exist, so God can also exist outside of spacetime.

[lizazoon]

@ggcage May I assume then. that god is just an" idea". OK. Now where does that idea live. ?? Nothing tangible can live outside" time and space" It`s a theological concept that says exactly nothing. As soon as there is something, there is time and space. It`s a "contradictio in terminis".

[ggcage]

That's true for any physcial substance but God is not physical. God is not made of matter/energy. If He were, He'd be bound by the laws of nature, which violates the very definition of God.

[ggcage]

Since Jesus has come into the world, demons have much less power, and since Jesus has already been born a full blooded man, creating a new set of Nephilim would be completely pointless.

Again, its an issue of free will. The angels, like people have free will. And many of them have used it to rebel against God.

[tifforo1]

2:39

I don't see a prophesy, but O.K.

2:53

Satan isn't mentioned anywhere in the first 12 books of the Bible (indeed, that name is only contained in 3 out of 39 books in the Protestant Old Testament), but this is standard theology, so O.K.

3:09

Ah, Nephilim. I had a feeling that was coming.

God gave the angels DNA? He gave them sex organs that were compatible with those of humans, knowing what would come of it? He let demons enter Earth physically, which doesn't happen today? WTF.