Offenders sent to court-mandated AA binge drink 9 times as much as those sent to non-12 step treatment (Brandsma, et. al.). Telling people they are powerless is what can kill.
"relying on an experience to the exclusion of everything else in your life" < what I see in so many ppl involved in AA, Their addiction to alcohol is just transfered over to the cult of AA.
that problem is way in the rearview - the existing DSM-IV in force for over a decade already defines dependence in the absence of such symptoms, and will in DSM-V explicitly REMOVE the example you provide in the category of addiction they re-establish. By the way, how would your point relate to DSM-V inclusion of gambling as addictive.
I basically agree, but I think you've set up a circular definition of addiction - it relies on its own assumption to support its central premise. If you restrict addiction to 'getting lost' in a 'powerful experience' that 'degrades (ones) life,' you exclude metabolic dependency. Yet it's hard to see how someone who avoids the risk of transient ischaemia by maintaining isn't an addict?
Actually, Stanton you remind of the Catholic Church in the Middle Ages, when the killed or jailed scientists. Eplain to me why you wrote a "Treatment Plan" for a favility when you do not believe in a disease process, or concept.
@Mrjoepizza123 : adiiction is learned behavior? Well, explain that to newborns who have to be treted for withdrawal, because they became addicted inutero....
because of their mother's use during pregnancy...
It's a horrible thing, but, it's real, and ugly, however, those babies have withdrawal symptoms, and are in danger and hurting....
@Mrjoepizza123: while some children may be introduced to alcohol or other behaviors by their parents, not all of them are alcoholics. In fact many abstain because of the ugly behavior of their parents.
There are alcoholics from abstaining familys as well.
The chance of developing alcoholism in life is genetic, with some exception for the children introduced to the drug in utero.
You can check out the data on Science Daily, or go to pubmed.gov for studies''
To qualify my last post. yes, alcohol problems may be learned behavior for some, but addiction is is how the alcohol is metabolized by the body., especially the brain.
Reading about adoption studies may also be helpfull.
BTW, it is a life long and progressive disease, Go to some AA meetings and listen to those who battle this horror.
@wvguy8258 Addiction is the chemical reaction in the brain., and continuing the behavior to maintain that level or exceed that level. Running increases certain feel good chemicals, and the habit of running sustains them. Addiction of running that is out of control is running instead of eating sleeping, working, etc. Even depression and stress release cortisols, and eskews the dopamine serotonin levels.
@Exino Addiction is learned behavior a pattern that began during the formitive years
It does not take a genuis to figure out in a morally deficent world, where the government, religions,medical professions,and educations are all corrupt........addiction is the only honest response to the ignorance of society.....people who refuse to buy into the hypocrisy and lies of all the authorities,people who are addicted become the scapegoat for that ignorance.
I suggest you Watch the Father martin Videos, or those from Harvard., instead of bitter rhetoric from unhappy people who went to a meeting and heard something they did not like,, and parade around with it stamped on their foreheads. , or did not have enough backbone to stand up to behavior that might have been illegal or predatory, Sober people are happy and content people, not bitter. And yes the rooms are filled with abstinent people, who are not sober.
I was wondering how long ol' evey would take to whip out that baseless, moronic, mythical, yet nonetheless moralistic garbage.
The AA zombies say that the AA "bottom line" AA is about "staying sober". But if you achieve sobriety without engaging in their time-wasting rituals, they invent this new idea of a sobriety beyond alcohol sobriety and claim that you aren't "emotionally sober". (Solely based on one's lack of compliance to the meaningless cult rituals.)
"Father martin" - Total number of published peer reviewed articles on addiction = 0, Total years of clinical study in it = 0
The rest of your comment is meant as a deliberate dig at anyone who has found an alternative.
Interestingly, the reasons anyone should respond to your posts are the same numbers as your deluded religious leaders addictions papers in publication = 0
"Father martin" - Total number of published peer reviewed articles on addiction = 0, Total years of clinical study in it = 0
Fr. Martin devoted his life to alcoholism, and had an extremely successful treatment center. The Trx Cntr is still there, however, Fr, M passed away in March of this yr. Trx Ctr is in Maryland. there is no dig is AA doesn't work for U. So what have U done in the field.
"Fr. Martin devoted his life to alcoholism, and had an extremely successful treatment center."
I guess this is supposed to be proof in folk medicine? Switching the burden of proof of authority to me does not answer the question I posed.
Nice duck but still a fail. Stop quoting lame ducks or in this case dead ducks to attempt to gain credence for your position, kind of makes you look like a scab picker.
You just pulled a weekend at Bernie's and I am smiling.
Well, he studied the disease, and became a champion of recovery, He did more than publish one phamphlet, he has serval videos, and DVDs. He let himself be out there, and lectured and served his fellow man, I don't know how many studies he participated in, but, no matter...He was ther and gave it his all.
Degrees in truthology and the ability to make fancy presentations mean nothing.
Give Peer reviewed publication in a medical or science journal, make sure to provide page, volume, and date.
Made a DVD? That is supposed to make a person a competent authority? I can not count the numbers of DVD's that I have watched that should have been burned.
, Fr Martin APPLIED the science., and contributed his experience. Besides:: You flick on a light, did you invent the light bulb? You phone people, are you Alexander G Bell?
You ducked and failed and intentionally never produced what was asked for.
What the hell is it with you people and the lack of proof for your assertions?
You also seem to have the very same aversion to verifiable references as adhominemguitargeezer.
You might want to just quit now as it appears that I have gone long over your head. I will also add there NO SCIENCE in what Fr. Martin did, only you claiming that it is science.
So we are back to placebo status for your precious cult.
I refenrence You to Fr martin as a tool to help you view another point of the disease of alcoholism that is not name calling or morally degrading as Stanton Peele. Stanton Peele does not based ANYTHING on solid scientific facts. I give you refence to Hazeldon Publictions- wealthof info, The Journal of Nuclear medicine April1 2008. , etc....
What part did you not get? Now go about proving Hazeldon Publications science or produces science books.
April 1 2008 - Comparison of Integrin {alpha}vβ3 Expression and Glucose Metabolism in Primary and Metastatic Lesions in Cancer Patients: A PET Study Using 18F-Galacto-RGD and 18F-FDG
Are you just pulling these out of nowhere? Draw the lines genius and make your case or I am done with you and you get the award for most complicated delusion.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
the Article is Receptor Binding and predisposition to alcholism? Upon autposy 5-HTZA was discovered, at recptor sites,leading to conclusion that the DSM1V defintion of Alcoholism is correct, The study was done at NY State Psychiatric Center.
A syndrome is the definition of signs and symptoms of a disease, which the DSM classifies for all the diseases it lists. the American Medical Assn recognizes alcoholism as a disease after many years of denial, perhaps.
"A syndrome is the definition of signs and symptoms of a disease"
Bullshit evet...
We've been through this and you KNOW it's bullshit...
When you have to resort to lying to bolster your argument, doesn't that alert you to the fact that there's something wrong with your argument (and probably you)?
"Hammie, perhaps you could study at the Bosch Institute, where there are alcoholism studies."
Don't need to evey...
I've already got a triple major undergraduate degree, graduating with first class honours (dissertation in addiction theory), and a Research Masters degree (dissertation in addiction theory).
I'm about a year and a half away from the big one (PhD).
But I'm sure that the "Bosch Institute" puts on nice quaint little informative abridging courses for the layman such as yourself.
I really don't beleive you at all. Especially since you are the summoned King/ leader , or whatever of the Legion 12 Network. I read Ur writings regrading AA, etc. Legion 12 Network! Now, there goes Ur credibility ........
Everyone who's ANYONE on these threads (AA or no) can CLEARLY see that you're an uneducated numbnuts that has a chronic tendency to make a fool of yourself (who can't even spell "believe") and that I am educated in the field of addiction theory.
Like the complete mental cripple and intellectual coward that he is, he never will.
All he does is post words and concepts that he has NO understanding of - in utero, GABBA receptor sites, DTs, "beer balls", and recently he seems to like to say 5-HTZA quite a lot.
However, to his credit, he now seems to have graduated to throwing up references to articles that he doesn't understand.
"Hammie, there is NO scientific facts from Peele, none. and, I have read some of his work."
Evey, it's clear from this comment that you've read NONE of Peele's work otherwise you wouldn't be making this ridiculously false and ignorant statement in the first place.
Even his SCHOLARLY ANTAGONISTS don't claim this.
Evey, stop pretending that you have read any of Peele's work and have ANY knowledge of the body of knowledge on addiction.
Oh King of the Legion 12 I have read his work, and philosphy and that of the Berkshire people as well. However, the gig is up, oh Master of the Legion 12. If Legion 12, where U wrote volumes, a joke then U are saying S Peele is a joke as well>
Hammie, Everything S Peel says is about Harm Reduction, that Aa is a Cult, etc. Know I know that U think AA is a cult from Ur Lefion 12 Network affiliation, but come now. And, what I say is trurth. Ever find out what 5-Ht2a is?
As, I explained to U. S Peele is like Dr Murray to Michael Jackson, Dr Murray obviously thought addiction and the begging for drugs was a "choice" I guess Peele's famous faux paux was Audrey Kishline. I hve know litle 70 yr old ladies addicted to Vicodin, because their "Drs" said it was not addictive, + it was their patient's choice to use as much as they want. And, some of those ladies ptay their rosary daily. Babys are born addicted. S peele should spend 2 day in a NICU>
To finnish on the elderly addicted to opiates: Their families send them to detox and rehab, because these poor souls are addicted, and very much so. And, their grndkids steal the stuff.
Well S P should not be giving any medical advice or encouragement, he is a PHD not an MD. What does " sleep in the same bed everynight" or experience have to do with 5-Ht2a, or the use of Naltrexone to curb physical addiction to a chemical? Explain that?
"What does " sleep in the same bed everynight" or experience have to do with 5-Ht2a, or the use of Naltrexone to curb physical addiction to a chemical? Explain that?"
Ham: the "sleep in the same bed" theory is Peele's as an example of addiction, I guess, It has nothing to do with genes or patterning or anything. So ask Peele what he menat,
Good answer! Ham! And, the best stargey to reduce harm would be abstinence, because unless the MD could guarantee that the patient would have NO physical sequella, or dependence or addiction , And, what MD in their right mind could do that? Even methadone programs, and Harm Red prog have failure.
Ham: explain the poppy seed thing to me, is it still a big thing down under? also, Are people still licking the toads? I think when I heard about the toad licking, oh about , what 10-15 yrs ago, I thought, naw no one in the US, but I was wrong?
Because there are people who take this very seriously, Ham. They don't go around and dispute science for their own monetary gain, they are trying to save lives, and undo the damage Behaviorists, or MDs who rely on "patient choice."
The only "damage" AA could have ever done is wound a few egos, and the anger is only because the person is left without their drug of choice.
We have a different mind set than in the 30's, amongst users, some now used with their parents. So more resistance,
So, would U be the doctor that tells a patient: "Go ahead and use Ur drug of choice, just be moderate...." Would YOU do that? Think about this B$ U answer it. think of the liability there, the false hope. S Peele said that a person could use heroin ww/o harm, , Well how much heroin, is it titrated to body mass or tolerance? How would he determine how much a person could drink or how much drug to use? he is not qualified to Rx drugs,,,,,,,
"So, would U be the doctor that tells a patient: "Go ahead and use Ur drug of choice, just be moderate...." Would YOU do that?"
I'm not a Doctor of Medicine - but soon to be a Doctor of Philosophy. So I cant speculate as to what this hypothetical medical advice would be. One thing's for sure though, if a doctor was presented with a patient who flatly refused to stop using mind/mood altering drugs, he would ethically be bound to assist the client implement strategies that would reduce harm.
I think that it's far easier, and ultimately the best "harm reduction" strategy, to go for total abstinence...
Why wait (in perhaps the vein hope) for some sort of moderation equilibrium to come about whilst decades fly by and mental, emotional and physical health continue to steadily decline?
Immediate cessation of health deterioration and substantial improvement in life circumstances is available right now...
Tell me the one about Bill Wilson taking AN acid trip in the 1970s (and NOT the SEVERAL trips he took in late fifties as has been documented by dozens of biographers).
Professor Nick Hynt's response might be since Hammersley is the summoned Legion 12 Network King/Mr. President, there is absolutely no credibility for anything Mr Hamm... writes. Go back to your Legion 12 people and stop pretending you have any knowleg=dge of what anyone else is writing about.
So, give me a srudy that Peele has done on genetics, or neurotransmitters, or Fetal alcohol syndrome, . And I want all the facts, Hamm. Cite one example of each that S Peele has participated in.......The challenge is yours
"So, give me a srudy that Peele has done on genetics, or neurotransmitters"
Do you get your mother to read the comments and type your responses for you evey?
"You" (your Mum) wrote:
"Stanton Peele does not based ANYTHING on solid scientific facts."
And then I responded that his work is:
"absolutely SATURATED with scientific evidence. Indeed, like any scholarly social scientific body of knowledge, he doesn't make ONE assertion without supporting it with sound scientific evidence."
The man is a SOCIAL scientist that has also thoroughly reviewed the PHYSICAL scientific canon of knowledge and found NOTHING that supports the contention that alcoholism is a disease.
How DOES your microscopic brain produce enough power to keep your fingers tapping on that keyboard?
Sorry, I forgot, your Mum does your reading and typing...
You just sit in the corner of that grimy little room, grunting nonsensical responses - with all that greasy fried chicken smeared across you face...
Peele S. (1977) "Redefining addiction I: Making addiction a scientifically and socially useful concept," International Journal of Health Services 7:103-124.
Analysis showed that putative biological mechanisms could NOT account for addictive behaviour.
"Addiction is both a more complex and a more common phenomenon than either medical personnel or laymen have realized. It is impossible to link addiction as a medical syndrome to any one drug or family of drugs, or to trace it to a specific biological mechanism. As scientists have uncovered more data leading to these conclusions, they have turned away from employing the term 'addiction'."
This is why the DSM IV and the WHO use the term "alcohol dependency" rather than "alcoholism".
"So if his work is "saturated" with solid scientific evidence give me one example."
"... laboratory studies in which priming dosages of liquor are given to alcoholics or in which alcoholics are simply observed while drinking find that alcoholics typically DO regulate their drinking (Mello & Mendelson 1971; Nathan & OBrien 1971; Heather & Robinson 1981)"
Peele S. (1985), "The Meaning of Addiction: Compulsive Experience and its Interpretation", D.C. Heath & Company, Canada, p. 29.
"So, give me a srudy that Peele has done on genetics, or neurotransmitters, or Fetal alcohol syndrome, . And I want all the facts, Hamm. Cite one example of each that S Peele has participated in......The challenge is yours"
So evey, following that astoundingly puerile line of logic, give me ONE "srudy" (STUDY) that Father Joe Martin "has done on genetics, or neurotransmitters, or Fetal alcohol syndrome".
"Professor Nick Hynt's response might be since Hammersley is the summoned Legion 12 Network King/Mr. President, there is absolutely no credibility for anything Mr Hamm... writes."
Do you REALLY think that that's how he'd respond to the question: "Is alcoholism a disease"?
You're far more fucked up than I originally thought.
@isegoria1 Brilliant. Not to discount Dr. Peele's words, but your comment "degrees in truthology" surely is the best summation on the supposed "authority" of those in recovery culture as well as most 12 Step Evangelists. Bravo!
Look beyond what a mother did her unborn child, the point is that addiction IS NOT A CHOICE! those poor children are born addicted and need a medical withdrawal. they did not choose to be addicted, certain drugs, including alcohol is is addicting.
Well good! Now, if you'd stop hammering people who require more than you do to stay sober, so what? Why does that bother YOU? It/s like a festering sore with you. and realize that inAmerica alcoholism is considered a progressive medical genetic disease ( their words)jAs i explained. for some AA works, and if you had a bad experience, let it go already. Ever hear the term KING BABY?
The act of drinking alcohol is a choice, the physical action is is not a choice. AND, again, fetuses do not make that choice, and the are born addicted. What is it you do not understand? The effects of alcohol IS NOT A CHOICE! the effects of mashed potatos is not a choice. Once ingested and digested the effects are not a choice. Also, the same with any disease : Alcoholism has mild. moderate. or severe reactions or symptoms.
GW, as I said to 2p, evet's ignorance, indoctrination, confusion and delusion are pathological.
S/he simply can't string 2 units of logic together. Moreover, like a typical narcissistically disturbed AAer, s/he is constitutionally incapable of intellectual reflectivity.
In short, s/he doesn't know what s/he doesn't know.
I've been down the road that you are going with him/her many, many times before.
S/he will steadfastly cling to his/her ignorance no matter how much it is revealed...
"those poor children are born addicted and need a medical withdrawal. they did not choose to be addicted, certain drugs, including alcohol is is addicting."
How DOES one sort that bowl of spaghetti out?
I mean... where do you start?
How does evet's brain generate enough energy to keep his/her fingers tapping on the keyboard?
compulsive behavior is one form of addictive symptoms, however, the chemical alcohol , or other chemical drugs; cause, in some people PHYSICAL dependency. This occurs in the brain ( neuro receptor sites/neurotransmitters) and the person suffers withdrawal or death without the substance. I refer you to the Washington University reports on chromosome 15, et al.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
A newborn screaming baby, screaming, seizing, writhing, vomiting, etc because of alcohol withdrawal, due to the mother's use during pregnancy is proof positive that addiction to alcohol exists, GABA receptor site activity is Proof addiction exists. This man is very dangerous!
I dont know any of this guy's work but in this clip he is saying that addicted doesn't just apply to drugs and alcohol but addiction is in everyday life. We as people depend on certain things and if these things harm us it is labeled as an addiction but if its an everyday part of life that doesn't affect our responsiblities ie; a car, the internet then its labeled as a dependance. Something that you cant live without.
Both are classified as a disease. You can have both together, or apart, dependency without addiction, or addiction without dependency, and vise versa. It's the same as the difference between a need and a want.
Yeah, sorry, it is classified as a disease in the CPT codes, by the AMA and the DSM: 303.9. It's a disease, it's classified as any other disease. Other addictions that do not involve drugs are emotional mental diseases.
Yep the DSM1V 303-303.9 is the American Diagnostic label and criteria for the disease of alcoholism. The American Medical Association classifies it as a disease. If you live outside of the USA then I could understand if your country is not up to speed with modern science, and your country still believes that it is a moral issue, and a choice So what Peel is saying is that if you cannot "control" your drinking you are a moral failure ?
Can you not read? NOWHERE in 303.9 does it label it a disease. Your delusion is there but not alcoholism.
Please give us definitions for disease and dependence and explain how they are in fact different.
The AMA most certainly does not, also notice any action taken on the part of the AMA was because of direct pressure from the aa front group NCADD. Feel free to prove that NCADD is not a front organization for aa.
I already referred you to Washington U's studies. on chromosone 15.. There are thousands. You sound like a bully yourself. go to a local college class on alcoholism or addiction.
Chromosome 15 likely contains between 700 and 900 genes.
Chromosome 15 spans about 106 million base pairs.
Response claims as the boosters have made of this, is not disease. What you have done is no better than me saying that there is alcohol in the world so everyone must be an alcoholic.
Research your materials thoroughly before stupid assumptions to people education here, it only makes you appear retarded.
Care to tell us which base pairs are responsible for your pseudo disease?
Would you classify Measles as a disease? Well, there are various symptoms and not everyone has the same severity. It's classified as a disease. Go argue with the AMA.
Please let me point out,drinking is a behaviour problem and a choice.Both are your own problems and need you to address them.The dependcy part is medical.
I've been down this track with him many times - both on the threads and in PMs.
He's a concrete wall of indoctrination and irrationality thereof. He can't grasp the simple distinction between psycho-emotionally determined CHOICE and temporarily altered physiology. This is a common AA error of category.
People listen to him because he says what the want to hear. None of it is true. Addicts and alcoholics do not abuse because they enjoy it, they do not abuse because they want to, they do not abuse because they are weaker than those who do not. He has no proof or research to back up any of his claims he just writes what people have secretly believed all along because they are not addicts and believe themselves superior too those who are.
Weakness has nothing to do with it. An alcoholic becomes chemically dependent on etoh to survive. Alcoholics do not feel superior, they usually feel like dirt. The bravado is a real cover up. An effective rehab stay, and AA foster honesty and acceptable behavior and feelings. Alcohol to an alcoholic is a need, not a want. There is a big difference between a need and a want.
Stanton Peele is a psychologist, not a scientist and not an alcoholic and frankly doesn't know anything about addiction. Just because he has Dr. in front of his name doesn't make him an expert. He has no medical background and no scientific background, and no experience with alcoholism personally, why is anyone even listening to him?
I've used drugs and alcohol to some degree, or another, for 27 years. The last 10 were spent in a severity I am hard-pressed to explain. Speaking from my own experiences, Dr. Peele has come to understand addiction better than anyone I've researched. The old model of addiction is not only antiquated, but is proved extremely harmful.
am i the only one that didnt understand the first 13 seconds?
jacebutt210 2 months ago
again clueless... 12 steps save lives.. this guys bla bla bla stuff can kill
pauldemo0708 7 months ago
@pauldemo0708
Offenders sent to court-mandated AA binge drink 9 times as much as those sent to non-12 step treatment (Brandsma, et. al.). Telling people they are powerless is what can kill.
TheSinisterKitty 6 months ago
"relying on an experience to the exclusion of everything else in your life" < what I see in so many ppl involved in AA, Their addiction to alcohol is just transfered over to the cult of AA.
beautifulmind546 9 months ago
that problem is way in the rearview - the existing DSM-IV in force for over a decade already defines dependence in the absence of such symptoms, and will in DSM-V explicitly REMOVE the example you provide in the category of addiction they re-establish. By the way, how would your point relate to DSM-V inclusion of gambling as addictive.
stantonpeele 11 months ago
I basically agree, but I think you've set up a circular definition of addiction - it relies on its own assumption to support its central premise. If you restrict addiction to 'getting lost' in a 'powerful experience' that 'degrades (ones) life,' you exclude metabolic dependency. Yet it's hard to see how someone who avoids the risk of transient ischaemia by maintaining isn't an addict?
Subutubiata 11 months ago
Great definition for addiction. Thanks!
Maiitreya 1 year ago
Actually, Stanton you remind of the Catholic Church in the Middle Ages, when the killed or jailed scientists. Eplain to me why you wrote a "Treatment Plan" for a favility when you do not believe in a disease process, or concept.
evet45 1 year ago
Addiction is learned behavior, that began during the formitive years
Mrjoepizza123 1 year ago
@Mrjoepizza123 : adiiction is learned behavior? Well, explain that to newborns who have to be treted for withdrawal, because they became addicted inutero....
because of their mother's use during pregnancy...
It's a horrible thing, but, it's real, and ugly, however, those babies have withdrawal symptoms, and are in danger and hurting....
evet45 1 year ago
@evet45 Good point except once again I will simply say the behavior of the parents created the addiction
Mrjoepizza123 1 year ago
@Mrjoepizza123: while some children may be introduced to alcohol or other behaviors by their parents, not all of them are alcoholics. In fact many abstain because of the ugly behavior of their parents.
There are alcoholics from abstaining familys as well.
The chance of developing alcoholism in life is genetic, with some exception for the children introduced to the drug in utero.
Alcoholism may also skip a generation.
It is not a choice by learned behavior.
evet45 1 year ago
@Mrjoepizza123
You can check out the data on Science Daily, or go to pubmed.gov for studies''
To qualify my last post. yes, alcohol problems may be learned behavior for some, but addiction is is how the alcohol is metabolized by the body., especially the brain.
Reading about adoption studies may also be helpfull.
BTW, it is a life long and progressive disease, Go to some AA meetings and listen to those who battle this horror.
evet45 1 year ago
@wvguy8258 Addiction is the chemical reaction in the brain., and continuing the behavior to maintain that level or exceed that level. Running increases certain feel good chemicals, and the habit of running sustains them. Addiction of running that is out of control is running instead of eating sleeping, working, etc. Even depression and stress release cortisols, and eskews the dopamine serotonin levels.
evet45 1 year ago
This man is a genius.
Exino 1 year ago
@Exino
Ah - to be recognized in one's time!
Thanks for the support.
Stanton
stantonpeele 1 year ago
@Exino Addiction is learned behavior a pattern that began during the formitive years
It does not take a genuis to figure out in a morally deficent world, where the government, religions,medical professions,and educations are all corrupt........addiction is the only honest response to the ignorance of society.....people who refuse to buy into the hypocrisy and lies of all the authorities,people who are addicted become the scapegoat for that ignorance.
Mrjoepizza123 1 year ago
One thing for sure, AA is a cult that will brainwash you and coerce you into thinking you are a powerless drunk!!!
Please people rethink AA !!!
baneberry7 2 years ago
I suggest you Watch the Father martin Videos, or those from Harvard., instead of bitter rhetoric from unhappy people who went to a meeting and heard something they did not like,, and parade around with it stamped on their foreheads. , or did not have enough backbone to stand up to behavior that might have been illegal or predatory, Sober people are happy and content people, not bitter. And yes the rooms are filled with abstinent people, who are not sober.
evet45 2 years ago
Not sober by who's definition?
The dictionary definition: not intoxicated;
OR
AA's definition: living in accordance with God's will?
Who's God, yours or mine?
I f you can come up with a sensible answer I might unblock you, but wont hold my breath...
The man in that vieo has every right to be bitter, you heartless piece of shit - and so do I.
Your precious cult almost killed me and lost us a child, goul.
godlessweasel 2 years ago
Comment removed
Hammersley1967 2 years ago
I was wondering how long ol' evey would take to whip out that baseless, moronic, mythical, yet nonetheless moralistic garbage.
The AA zombies say that the AA "bottom line" AA is about "staying sober". But if you achieve sobriety without engaging in their time-wasting rituals, they invent this new idea of a sobriety beyond alcohol sobriety and claim that you aren't "emotionally sober". (Solely based on one's lack of compliance to the meaningless cult rituals.)
MYTH BASED ON MYTH BASED ON MYTH.
Hammersley1967 2 years ago
"Father martin" - Total number of published peer reviewed articles on addiction = 0, Total years of clinical study in it = 0
The rest of your comment is meant as a deliberate dig at anyone who has found an alternative.
Interestingly, the reasons anyone should respond to your posts are the same numbers as your deluded religious leaders addictions papers in publication = 0
isegoria1 2 years ago
"Father martin" - Total number of published peer reviewed articles on addiction = 0, Total years of clinical study in it = 0
Fr. Martin devoted his life to alcoholism, and had an extremely successful treatment center. The Trx Cntr is still there, however, Fr, M passed away in March of this yr. Trx Ctr is in Maryland. there is no dig is AA doesn't work for U. So what have U done in the field.
evet45 2 years ago
"Fr. Martin devoted his life to alcoholism, and had an extremely successful treatment center."
I guess this is supposed to be proof in folk medicine? Switching the burden of proof of authority to me does not answer the question I posed.
Nice duck but still a fail. Stop quoting lame ducks or in this case dead ducks to attempt to gain credence for your position, kind of makes you look like a scab picker.
You just pulled a weekend at Bernie's and I am smiling.
isegoria1 2 years ago
Well, he studied the disease, and became a champion of recovery, He did more than publish one phamphlet, he has serval videos, and DVDs. He let himself be out there, and lectured and served his fellow man, I don't know how many studies he participated in, but, no matter...He was ther and gave it his all.
evet45 2 years ago
Degrees in truthology and the ability to make fancy presentations mean nothing.
Give Peer reviewed publication in a medical or science journal, make sure to provide page, volume, and date.
Made a DVD? That is supposed to make a person a competent authority? I can not count the numbers of DVD's that I have watched that should have been burned.
isegoria1 2 years ago
, Fr Martin APPLIED the science., and contributed his experience. Besides:: You flick on a light, did you invent the light bulb? You phone people, are you Alexander G Bell?
You make no sense in your arguement.
evet45 2 years ago
You ducked and failed and intentionally never produced what was asked for.
What the hell is it with you people and the lack of proof for your assertions?
You also seem to have the very same aversion to verifiable references as adhominemguitargeezer.
You might want to just quit now as it appears that I have gone long over your head. I will also add there NO SCIENCE in what Fr. Martin did, only you claiming that it is science.
So we are back to placebo status for your precious cult.
isegoria1 2 years ago
I refenrence You to Fr martin as a tool to help you view another point of the disease of alcoholism that is not name calling or morally degrading as Stanton Peele. Stanton Peele does not based ANYTHING on solid scientific facts. I give you refence to Hazeldon Publictions- wealthof info, The Journal of Nuclear medicine April1 2008. , etc....
evet45 2 years ago
Hazeldon Publictions?
What part did you not get? Now go about proving Hazeldon Publications science or produces science books.
April 1 2008 - Comparison of Integrin {alpha}vβ3 Expression and Glucose Metabolism in Primary and Metastatic Lesions in Cancer Patients: A PET Study Using 18F-Galacto-RGD and 18F-FDG
Are you just pulling these out of nowhere? Draw the lines genius and make your case or I am done with you and you get the award for most complicated delusion.
isegoria1 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
the Article is Receptor Binding and predisposition to alcholism? Upon autposy 5-HTZA was discovered, at recptor sites,leading to conclusion that the DSM1V defintion of Alcoholism is correct, The study was done at NY State Psychiatric Center.
evet45 2 years ago
Predisposition does not make it a fucking disease no matter how much you want it to. Prove your disease or STFU!
I am so done with you and your dishonesty. And thank you for taking the time to make sure you do not quote from the most recent DSM IV.
I don't think you are willfully dishonest, just stupid.
Any fucking excuse but just knock it off and take responsibility for your life huh?
isegoria1 2 years ago
A syndrome is the definition of signs and symptoms of a disease, which the DSM classifies for all the diseases it lists. the American Medical Assn recognizes alcoholism as a disease after many years of denial, perhaps.
evet45 2 years ago
Again bullshit
Please show us other diseases that are negated through an act of volition without medical intervention.
FUCKING SHOW US ONE.
isegoria1 2 years ago
"A syndrome is the definition of signs and symptoms of a disease"
Bullshit evet...
We've been through this and you KNOW it's bullshit...
When you have to resort to lying to bolster your argument, doesn't that alert you to the fact that there's something wrong with your argument (and probably you)?
Hammersley1967 2 years ago
Hammie, perhaps you could study at the Bosch Institute, where there are alcoholism studies.
A syndome is a Group of symptoms and signs of disordered function , it does not include the cause, but a framework for further investigation.
evet45 2 years ago
"Hammie, perhaps you could study at the Bosch Institute, where there are alcoholism studies."
Don't need to evey...
I've already got a triple major undergraduate degree, graduating with first class honours (dissertation in addiction theory), and a Research Masters degree (dissertation in addiction theory).
I'm about a year and a half away from the big one (PhD).
But I'm sure that the "Bosch Institute" puts on nice quaint little informative abridging courses for the layman such as yourself.
Hammersley1967 2 years ago
I really don't beleive you at all. Especially since you are the summoned King/ leader , or whatever of the Legion 12 Network. I read Ur writings regrading AA, etc. Legion 12 Network! Now, there goes Ur credibility ........
evet45 2 years ago
What... The... Fuck... ARE you talking about?
There goes YOUR credibility!
Hammersley1967 2 years ago
"I really don't beleive you at all."
Doesn't matter evey...
Everyone who's ANYONE on these threads (AA or no) can CLEARLY see that you're an uneducated numbnuts that has a chronic tendency to make a fool of yourself (who can't even spell "believe") and that I am educated in the field of addiction theory.
The comments speak for themselves...
No one gives a shit what you believe...
They just laugh at you...
The comments literally speak for themselves...
Hammersley1967 2 years ago
"A syndome is a Group of symptoms and signs of disordered function , it does not include the cause, but a framework for further investigation."
Yep!
NOW you're learning...
You hit the nail RIGHT on the head!
Therefore a syndrome is NOT a medically classified disease...
Hammersley1967 2 years ago
"Hammie, perhaps you could study at the Bosch Institute, where there are alcoholism studies.
A syndome is a Group of symptoms and signs of disordered function , it does not include the cause, but a framework for further investigation."
Here's a thought evey!
Why don't you contact those "Bosche Boffins" at the University of Sydney and ask them whether or not "alcoholism is a disease"?
Go right to the top and contact Professor Nick Hunt...
What do you think their response would be?
Hammersley1967 2 years ago
"Are you just pulling these out of nowhere?"
Yes he is isegoria1.
"Draw the lines genius and make your case"
Like the complete mental cripple and intellectual coward that he is, he never will.
All he does is post words and concepts that he has NO understanding of - in utero, GABBA receptor sites, DTs, "beer balls", and recently he seems to like to say 5-HTZA quite a lot.
However, to his credit, he now seems to have graduated to throwing up references to articles that he doesn't understand.
Hammersley1967 2 years ago
Hammie, there is NO scientific facts from Peele, none. and, I have read some of his work. All he does is jabber on, like he does in these videos.
evet45 2 years ago
"Hammie, there is NO scientific facts from Peele, none. and, I have read some of his work."
Evey, it's clear from this comment that you've read NONE of Peele's work otherwise you wouldn't be making this ridiculously false and ignorant statement in the first place.
Even his SCHOLARLY ANTAGONISTS don't claim this.
Evey, stop pretending that you have read any of Peele's work and have ANY knowledge of the body of knowledge on addiction.
It's patently obvious that you know nothing.
GIVE IT UP!!!
Hammersley1967 2 years ago
Oh King of the Legion 12 I have read his work, and philosphy and that of the Berkshire people as well. However, the gig is up, oh Master of the Legion 12. If Legion 12, where U wrote volumes, a joke then U are saying S Peele is a joke as well>
So, ALL of what U say is a joke! I get it!
evet45 2 years ago
"I have read his work"
Yes evey, you've "read his work"...
What ever you say...
Why don't you take your tablets and have a nice lie down now...
The nurse will be in with you breakfast soon...
Hammersley1967 2 years ago
Hammie, Everything S Peel says is about Harm Reduction, that Aa is a Cult, etc. Know I know that U think AA is a cult from Ur Lefion 12 Network affiliation, but come now. And, what I say is trurth. Ever find out what 5-Ht2a is?
evet45 2 years ago
"Ever find out what 5-Ht2a is?"
Why?
Do you want me to give you another lesson on yet another area of addiction theory?
Hammersley1967 2 years ago
As, I explained to U. S Peele is like Dr Murray to Michael Jackson, Dr Murray obviously thought addiction and the begging for drugs was a "choice" I guess Peele's famous faux paux was Audrey Kishline. I hve know litle 70 yr old ladies addicted to Vicodin, because their "Drs" said it was not addictive, + it was their patient's choice to use as much as they want. And, some of those ladies ptay their rosary daily. Babys are born addicted. S peele should spend 2 day in a NICU>
evet45 2 years ago
To finnish on the elderly addicted to opiates: Their families send them to detox and rehab, because these poor souls are addicted, and very much so. And, their grndkids steal the stuff.
evet45 2 years ago
Do U know what a NICU is?
evet45 2 years ago
Well S P should not be giving any medical advice or encouragement, he is a PHD not an MD. What does " sleep in the same bed everynight" or experience have to do with 5-Ht2a, or the use of Naltrexone to curb physical addiction to a chemical? Explain that?
evet45 2 years ago
"What does " sleep in the same bed everynight" or experience have to do with 5-Ht2a, or the use of Naltrexone to curb physical addiction to a chemical? Explain that?"
Why don't you explain it?
Hammersley1967 2 years ago
Ham: the "sleep in the same bed" theory is Peele's as an example of addiction, I guess, It has nothing to do with genes or patterning or anything. So ask Peele what he menat,
evet45 2 years ago
Good answer! Ham! And, the best stargey to reduce harm would be abstinence, because unless the MD could guarantee that the patient would have NO physical sequella, or dependence or addiction , And, what MD in their right mind could do that? Even methadone programs, and Harm Red prog have failure.
evet45 2 years ago
And, what's with Stanton's Letterman fixation? Maybe, realizing that he is the Legion 12 Network Guru flipped him out?
evet45 2 years ago
Your preaching to the converted here eve.
We both live in a culture in which drug and alcohol use is the norm.
So much the norm, that it is almost considered to be second only to oxygen in terms of survival.
Indeed, cultures of intoxication...
Peele tends to write from this perspective.
Check "America's abstinence fixation".
BTW: I'm not the Peele sycophant that you make me out to be. I have questioned his opinions on several of these threads.
See his vids on dropping the drinking age...
Hammersley1967 2 years ago
Ham: explain the poppy seed thing to me, is it still a big thing down under? also, Are people still licking the toads? I think when I heard about the toad licking, oh about , what 10-15 yrs ago, I thought, naw no one in the US, but I was wrong?
evet45 2 years ago
Because there are people who take this very seriously, Ham. They don't go around and dispute science for their own monetary gain, they are trying to save lives, and undo the damage Behaviorists, or MDs who rely on "patient choice."
The only "damage" AA could have ever done is wound a few egos, and the anger is only because the person is left without their drug of choice.
We have a different mind set than in the 30's, amongst users, some now used with their parents. So more resistance,
evet45 2 years ago
So, would U be the doctor that tells a patient: "Go ahead and use Ur drug of choice, just be moderate...." Would YOU do that? Think about this B$ U answer it. think of the liability there, the false hope. S Peele said that a person could use heroin ww/o harm, , Well how much heroin, is it titrated to body mass or tolerance? How would he determine how much a person could drink or how much drug to use? he is not qualified to Rx drugs,,,,,,,
evet45 2 years ago
[1]
"So, would U be the doctor that tells a patient: "Go ahead and use Ur drug of choice, just be moderate...." Would YOU do that?"
I'm not a Doctor of Medicine - but soon to be a Doctor of Philosophy. So I cant speculate as to what this hypothetical medical advice would be. One thing's for sure though, if a doctor was presented with a patient who flatly refused to stop using mind/mood altering drugs, he would ethically be bound to assist the client implement strategies that would reduce harm.
Hammersley1967 2 years ago
[2]
Now, my personal opinion?
I think that it's far easier, and ultimately the best "harm reduction" strategy, to go for total abstinence...
Why wait (in perhaps the vein hope) for some sort of moderation equilibrium to come about whilst decades fly by and mental, emotional and physical health continue to steadily decline?
Immediate cessation of health deterioration and substantial improvement in life circumstances is available right now...
Once out, why play the intoxication game at all?
Hammersley1967 2 years ago
"So, ALL of what U say is a joke! I get it!"
Tell me the one about Bill Wilson taking AN acid trip in the 1970s (and NOT the SEVERAL trips he took in late fifties as has been documented by dozens of biographers).
That one's a GREAT joke!!!
BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
Hammersley1967 2 years ago
Hamsterman, just checking if U could get it straight.... I know he took it on August 29 1956.
evet45 2 years ago
"Stanton Peele does not based ANYTHING on solid scientific facts."
Oh! And that lunatic ignoramus Father Martin does!!?
Evey, he's a PRIEST for Christ's sake!!! (Quite literally...)
Have you read ANY of Peele's work evey?
It is absolutely SATURATED with scientific evidence.
Indeed, like any scholarly social scientific body of knowledge, he doesn't make ONE assertion without supporting it with sound scientific evidence...
Stop watching youtube and do some reading for heaven's sake!!!
Hammersley1967 2 years ago
Professor Nick Hynt's response might be since Hammersley is the summoned Legion 12 Network King/Mr. President, there is absolutely no credibility for anything Mr Hamm... writes. Go back to your Legion 12 people and stop pretending you have any knowleg=dge of what anyone else is writing about.
evet45 2 years ago
I repeat...
W... T... F...?
Seriously evey, do they still put lead in the paint in your neck of the woods?
Hammersley1967 2 years ago
"stop pretending you have any knowleg=dge of what anyone else is writing about."
Have you read ANY of Peele's work evey?
Nope - you haven't have you?
So, what do you base your claim that "Stanton Peele does not based ANYTHING on solid scientific facts" on?
I think that YOU should stop pretending that you've read ANYTHING - PERIOD!
Hammersley1967 2 years ago
So, give me a srudy that Peele has done on genetics, or neurotransmitters, or Fetal alcohol syndrome, . And I want all the facts, Hamm. Cite one example of each that S Peele has participated in.......The challenge is yours
evet45 2 years ago
[1]
"So, give me a srudy that Peele has done on genetics, or neurotransmitters"
Do you get your mother to read the comments and type your responses for you evey?
"You" (your Mum) wrote:
"Stanton Peele does not based ANYTHING on solid scientific facts."
And then I responded that his work is:
"absolutely SATURATED with scientific evidence. Indeed, like any scholarly social scientific body of knowledge, he doesn't make ONE assertion without supporting it with sound scientific evidence."
Hammersley1967 2 years ago
[2]
The man is a SOCIAL scientist that has also thoroughly reviewed the PHYSICAL scientific canon of knowledge and found NOTHING that supports the contention that alcoholism is a disease.
How DOES your microscopic brain produce enough power to keep your fingers tapping on that keyboard?
Sorry, I forgot, your Mum does your reading and typing...
You just sit in the corner of that grimy little room, grunting nonsensical responses - with all that greasy fried chicken smeared across you face...
Hammersley1967 2 years ago
[3]
Read:
Peele S. (1977) "Redefining addiction I: Making addiction a scientifically and socially useful concept," International Journal of Health Services 7:103-124.
Analysis showed that putative biological mechanisms could NOT account for addictive behaviour.
Hammersley1967 2 years ago
Comment removed
Hammersley1967 2 years ago
[4]
QUOTE:
"Addiction is both a more complex and a more common phenomenon than either medical personnel or laymen have realized. It is impossible to link addiction as a medical syndrome to any one drug or family of drugs, or to trace it to a specific biological mechanism. As scientists have uncovered more data leading to these conclusions, they have turned away from employing the term 'addiction'."
This is why the DSM IV and the WHO use the term "alcohol dependency" rather than "alcoholism".
Hammersley1967 2 years ago
BTW it's lobster. Hey, how's your plot to "rule" the world going, Mr. Leader of the Legion 12 Network? LOL
evet45 2 years ago
That's it evey?
That's all you've got?
Defeated on the actual matter at hand (Peele's body of work), so all you can do is bang on about "The Legion of 12"?
BTW evey, "The Legion" is a JOKE...
You seem to be the only one dumb enough not to get the joke and, embarrassingly, you actually take it seriously...
Pffft!
Hammersley1967 2 years ago
Well, is all the other things you and 2p worth and Godlessweasel doing, a joke? Just the caliber of people who worship S Peele.
evet45 2 years ago
"BTW it's lobster."
Actually, it's "retard"...
Hammersley1967 2 years ago
So if his work is "saturated" with solid scientific evidence give me one example.
How does he explain addicted newbornes?
evet45 2 years ago
[a]
"So if his work is "saturated" with solid scientific evidence give me one example."
"... laboratory studies in which priming dosages of liquor are given to alcoholics or in which alcoholics are simply observed while drinking find that alcoholics typically DO regulate their drinking (Mello & Mendelson 1971; Nathan & OBrien 1971; Heather & Robinson 1981)"
Peele S. (1985), "The Meaning of Addiction: Compulsive Experience and its Interpretation", D.C. Heath & Company, Canada, p. 29.
Hammersley1967 2 years ago
Comment removed
Hammersley1967 2 years ago
[b]
See that evey?
One statement supported by THREE references to CONCLUSIVE EMPIRICAL SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH.
Consistent with ALL his work, and unlike you, he makes a statement and supports it with conclusive, repeatable, peer reviewed, empirical EVIDENCE...
Compare that to the unsubstantiated, illogical tripe that you dish up week after week...
And by the way evey, like I've said a thousand times before, you do your own fuckin' reading you ignorant animal...
Hammersley1967 2 years ago
"So, give me a srudy that Peele has done on genetics, or neurotransmitters, or Fetal alcohol syndrome, . And I want all the facts, Hamm. Cite one example of each that S Peele has participated in......The challenge is yours"
So evey, following that astoundingly puerile line of logic, give me ONE "srudy" (STUDY) that Father Joe Martin "has done on genetics, or neurotransmitters, or Fetal alcohol syndrome".
"And I want all the facts"
"The challenge is yours"
You really ARE a lightweight evey...
Hammersley1967 2 years ago
"Professor Nick Hynt's response might be since Hammersley is the summoned Legion 12 Network King/Mr. President, there is absolutely no credibility for anything Mr Hamm... writes."
Do you REALLY think that that's how he'd respond to the question: "Is alcoholism a disease"?
You're far more fucked up than I originally thought.
BTW: Who the fuck is "Professor Nick Hynt"?
Hammersley1967 2 years ago
Aghhh, my typing is not the best, however, YOU are the King of the Legion 12 Network, so what do you care?
Professor Nick Hunt is the correct name.
evet45 2 years ago
@isegoria1 Brilliant. Not to discount Dr. Peele's words, but your comment "degrees in truthology" surely is the best summation on the supposed "authority" of those in recovery culture as well as most 12 Step Evangelists. Bravo!
LexeconKiddo 6 months ago
What disease? There is no disease so he studied nothing?
isegoria1 2 years ago
Look beyond what a mother did her unborn child, the point is that addiction IS NOT A CHOICE! those poor children are born addicted and need a medical withdrawal. they did not choose to be addicted, certain drugs, including alcohol is is addicting.
evet45 2 years ago
Evet, I was not 'sharing', I simply made a point that I am not addicted or dependent on anything and asked you to explain.
No, I am not 'using a substance' I have been completely, continuously abstinent for 10 years+
Peddle your steppist rhetoric elsewhere please.
godlessweasel 2 years ago
Your just exploded his brain...
And it went...
pop!
Hammersley1967 2 years ago
Hey did you get the Stanton videos I sent?
Our compter is playing silly beggars :(
godlessweasel 2 years ago
Got 'em and watched 'em...
BTW: What's the legal drinking age in the UK?
Hammersley1967 2 years ago
Oh good!
Legal age here is 18.
Not that anyone takes any notice of the law LOL
godlessweasel 2 years ago
Well good! Now, if you'd stop hammering people who require more than you do to stay sober, so what? Why does that bother YOU? It/s like a festering sore with you. and realize that inAmerica alcoholism is considered a progressive medical genetic disease ( their words)jAs i explained. for some AA works, and if you had a bad experience, let it go already. Ever hear the term KING BABY?
evet45 2 years ago
That's QUEEN WEASEL to you...
godlessweasel 2 years ago
You came here to hammer us.
And you failed miserably.
I dont see anybody peddling their brand of abstinence and abusing people on the 12 step channels, do you???
godlessweasel 2 years ago
evet45
As you have blockeds me, howard the coward, I am unable to send the video. It is on my channel - Alcoholics Anonymous, some final thoughts.
I suggest you watch it and see just how family-orientated your precious little cult really is...
godlessweasel 2 years ago
I doubt very much you have seen maddoggit's video evet45.
If you have, you just show yourself to be a typical 12 step goul - fuck everyone else as long as I'm ok...
Congratulations!
You just won the stupid indoctrinated fool award -
GOODBYE!
godlessweasel 2 years ago
Comment removed
evet45 2 years ago
You took your time dreaming those up!
Yes, you can PREVENT diseases through lifestyle changes, not CURE them.
You need medical intervention to treat diabetes and heart disease.
Obesity is NOT a disease.
So what exactly is your point this time?
*yawn...*
godlessweasel 2 years ago
YOU CAN arrest some diseases, yes you cannot cure them, so you have to do the appropiate steps
evet45 2 years ago
eve shut up and grow up there is nothing wrong with you...Your a big baby...Get over yourself get a life and stop moaning...
Stop lieing to your family and freinds stop playing the poor victim and get a grip/////////
2pWORTH 2 years ago
The act of drinking alcohol is a choice, the physical action is is not a choice. AND, again, fetuses do not make that choice, and the are born addicted. What is it you do not understand? The effects of alcohol IS NOT A CHOICE! the effects of mashed potatos is not a choice. Once ingested and digested the effects are not a choice. Also, the same with any disease : Alcoholism has mild. moderate. or severe reactions or symptoms.
evet45 2 years ago
"The act of drinking alcohol is a choice, the physical action is is not a choice."
Mind boggling...
Hammersley1967 2 years ago
physical addiction is not a choice. It is a chemical reaction that occurs in the brain.
evet45 2 years ago
Go back to school and learn about addiction.
Your local community campus should have a course.
You will discover how deluded and confused you really are...
Hammersley1967 2 years ago
'physical addiction is not a choice'
I was physically addicted, chose to stop and now I am not.
Explain???
godlessweasel 2 years ago
"Explain???"
Look out Godless!!!
Incoming mindless, verbal faecal matter from evet!!!
Hammersley1967 2 years ago
Oh no. I never thought of that!
Dr Peele has some excellent new videos by the way!
godlessweasel 2 years ago
PM me the links...
Hammersley1967 2 years ago
'fetuses are born addicted'
fetuses are not born - babies are born and if they are born addicted it is because their mothers are selfish bitches who chose to carry on drugging.
It is perfectly safe to detox during the middle trimester - they chose not to do so.
Do these babies 'relapse'? I think not!
And once again, obesity is NOT a disease it is a consequence of lifestyle choices, same as your so-csalled disease of addiction.
You are nothing but a fool who likes to play victim.
godlessweasel 2 years ago
GW, as I said to 2p, evet's ignorance, indoctrination, confusion and delusion are pathological.
S/he simply can't string 2 units of logic together. Moreover, like a typical narcissistically disturbed AAer, s/he is constitutionally incapable of intellectual reflectivity.
In short, s/he doesn't know what s/he doesn't know.
I've been down the road that you are going with him/her many, many times before.
S/he will steadfastly cling to his/her ignorance no matter how much it is revealed...
Hammersley1967 2 years ago
"those poor children are born addicted and need a medical withdrawal. they did not choose to be addicted, certain drugs, including alcohol is is addicting."
How DOES one sort that bowl of spaghetti out?
I mean... where do you start?
How does evet's brain generate enough energy to keep his/her fingers tapping on the keyboard?
AMAZING!!!
Hammersley1967 2 years ago
Ya, there are things living below sea level with higher IQs...
godlessweasel 2 years ago
Addiction is an affliction.
CampsSuck 2 years ago
I wonder if this guy is being paid by the insurance companies so they do not have to pay for treatment.
evet45 2 years ago
compulsive behavior is one form of addictive symptoms, however, the chemical alcohol , or other chemical drugs; cause, in some people PHYSICAL dependency. This occurs in the brain ( neuro receptor sites/neurotransmitters) and the person suffers withdrawal or death without the substance. I refer you to the Washington University reports on chromosome 15, et al.
evet45 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
A newborn screaming baby, screaming, seizing, writhing, vomiting, etc because of alcohol withdrawal, due to the mother's use during pregnancy is proof positive that addiction to alcohol exists, GABA receptor site activity is Proof addiction exists. This man is very dangerous!
evet45 2 years ago
That would depreciate anyones life so yeah that would be addictive so he agrees with you. What he is saying is logical how do you not get it?
floresgt3 2 years ago
What is logical? S Peele is trying to disprove that there is any physical addiction.
evet45 2 years ago
I dont know any of this guy's work but in this clip he is saying that addicted doesn't just apply to drugs and alcohol but addiction is in everyday life. We as people depend on certain things and if these things harm us it is labeled as an addiction but if its an everyday part of life that doesn't affect our responsiblities ie; a car, the internet then its labeled as a dependance. Something that you cant live without.
floresgt3 2 years ago
Physical dependency, yes. Physical addiction, no. They are two different animals. And neither one is a disease.
godlessweasel 2 years ago
Both are classified as a disease. You can have both together, or apart, dependency without addiction, or addiction without dependency, and vise versa. It's the same as the difference between a need and a want.
evet45 2 years ago
They are NOT classified as a disease.
Which part of that dont you understand?
godlessweasel 2 years ago
Yeah, sorry, it is classified as a disease in the CPT codes, by the AMA and the DSM: 303.9. It's a disease, it's classified as any other disease. Other addictions that do not involve drugs are emotional mental diseases.
evet45 2 years ago
You are talking utter rubbish. DSM classifies it as substance abuse disorder and chemical dependence, NOT a disease.
Mental/emotional 'diseases'? I think you mean disorders - again, there is a difference.
The one that really kills me, though, is addiction as a 'spiritual disease' I mean, WTF!?
Do not chat gibberish and lies to me.
godlessweasel 2 years ago
303.9 -Alcohol Dependence DSM-IV
Stop telling lies to support your bs. You might want to go to a meeting instead so you can say any crazy thing you like without being challenged.
isegoria1 2 years ago
Yep the DSM1V 303-303.9 is the American Diagnostic label and criteria for the disease of alcoholism. The American Medical Association classifies it as a disease. If you live outside of the USA then I could understand if your country is not up to speed with modern science, and your country still believes that it is a moral issue, and a choice So what Peel is saying is that if you cannot "control" your drinking you are a moral failure ?
evet45 2 years ago
Can you not read? NOWHERE in 303.9 does it label it a disease. Your delusion is there but not alcoholism.
Please give us definitions for disease and dependence and explain how they are in fact different.
The AMA most certainly does not, also notice any action taken on the part of the AMA was because of direct pressure from the aa front group NCADD. Feel free to prove that NCADD is not a front organization for aa.
isegoria1 2 years ago
So how do you define "disease" other than what the AMA defines it as? Hasn't the latest media coverage on addiction enlightened you?
evet45 2 years ago
Listen very carefully. Addiction is a CHOICE. Always has been, always will be.
Dependency is also a CHOICE. Either you carry on, or you detox.
It is then your CHOICE to start again, or not.
Goodbye eejit.
godlessweasel 2 years ago
He is saying it is not a disease, not that it doesn't happen!
godlessweasel 2 years ago
Sorry! This guy is dangerous.
evet45 2 years ago
*sigh*
Dr stanton peele has a long list of credentials and qualifications. He has written many books siting a wealth of research and proven facts.
godlessweasel 2 years ago
There SO MANY other better qualified people than this guy. His "research"is lacking in scientific evidence.
evet45 2 years ago
No doubt some people are better qualified, but are you? Are most so-called 'experts' working in 12 step rehabs?
You have obviously never read any of Dr Stanton Peele's books. Sorry, but AA and the disease model are based on what scientific evidence exactly?
godlessweasel 2 years ago
I already referred you to Washington U's studies. on chromosone 15.. There are thousands. You sound like a bully yourself. go to a local college class on alcoholism or addiction.
evet45 2 years ago
Congratulations, you have finally found an excuse backed up by someone equally stupid............
There are many more which prove it is NOT a disease but hey, just you ignore all that. It doesn't sit well with your version of 'reality.'
'you sound like a bully' - typical AA speak for 'you are contradicting me'
'Go to a college class on alcoholism or addiction' - no doubt lectured by AA/NA numbties.
I don't need to. You know nothing about me or my educational background.
godlessweasel 2 years ago
Chromosome 15 likely contains between 700 and 900 genes.
Chromosome 15 spans about 106 million base pairs.
Response claims as the boosters have made of this, is not disease. What you have done is no better than me saying that there is alcohol in the world so everyone must be an alcoholic.
Research your materials thoroughly before stupid assumptions to people education here, it only makes you appear retarded.
Care to tell us which base pairs are responsible for your pseudo disease?
isegoria1 2 years ago
You have to laugh, dont you :)
godlessweasel 2 years ago
Would you classify Measles as a disease? Well, there are various symptoms and not everyone has the same severity. It's classified as a disease. Go argue with the AMA.
evet45 2 years ago
Measels - WTF???
DO shut up! Of course it is a disease, it has a known viral cause and immunisations are available to prevent it!
Tell me again that the same is true of addiction, and explain how you reach this conclusion.
You can NOT get rid of a genuine disease simply by making lifestyle changes, and certainly not through spiritual mumbo jumbo.
godlessweasel 2 years ago
Diseases are not JUST classified in viral or bacterial . that is where you are making your mistakes.
evet45 2 years ago
You simply cant grasp the very simple definition of what a disease is...
And you never will...
Hammersley1967 2 years ago
You can eat better, get more exercise and learn to deal with stress and curb obesity, diabetes and heart disease
evet45 2 years ago
EVE
Please let me point out,drinking is a behaviour problem and a choice.Both are your own problems and need you to address them.The dependcy part is medical.
Your really not thinking straight.
2pWORTH 2 years ago
"Your really not thinking straight."
2pWORTH - he's not and, pathologically, he can't.
I've been down this track with him many times - both on the threads and in PMs.
He's a concrete wall of indoctrination and irrationality thereof. He can't grasp the simple distinction between psycho-emotionally determined CHOICE and temporarily altered physiology. This is a common AA error of category.
But he doesn't know what he doesn't know...
Never will...
Unfortunately, you're wasting your time...
Hammersley1967 2 years ago
I agree Hammer
She is lost..
Such a shame really...
2pWORTH 2 years ago
ha lol
Their is a numpty a second on here.Shes a gem isnt she.
I hope she finds something wrong with her soon.Seems these people just want to be a victim of something"maybe they are born that way"
Sad really.I am off to catch origami now.
2pWORTH 2 years ago
"go to a local college class on alcoholism or addiction."
I think that it would be prudent for you to take some of your own advice evey....
Hammersley1967 2 years ago
He says he's a doctor, but he dresses like a pig farmer
S0RDIDTRUTH 3 years ago
I agree. He does not emit plausibility.
evet45 2 years ago
Funny that you are blabbering at a closed account to support your position.
Thank you - you guys never cease to give me a laugh
isegoria1 2 years ago
People listen to him because he says what the want to hear. None of it is true. Addicts and alcoholics do not abuse because they enjoy it, they do not abuse because they want to, they do not abuse because they are weaker than those who do not. He has no proof or research to back up any of his claims he just writes what people have secretly believed all along because they are not addicts and believe themselves superior too those who are.
raytownloc 3 years ago
Weakness has nothing to do with it. An alcoholic becomes chemically dependent on etoh to survive. Alcoholics do not feel superior, they usually feel like dirt. The bravado is a real cover up. An effective rehab stay, and AA foster honesty and acceptable behavior and feelings. Alcohol to an alcoholic is a need, not a want. There is a big difference between a need and a want.
evet45 2 years ago
"Alcoholics do not feel superior"
Go to speak at an AA meeting, mention that you were also opiate dependent, and gage the reaction of most people in the room.
godlessweasel 2 years ago
Stanton Peele is a psychologist, not a scientist and not an alcoholic and frankly doesn't know anything about addiction. Just because he has Dr. in front of his name doesn't make him an expert. He has no medical background and no scientific background, and no experience with alcoholism personally, why is anyone even listening to him?
raytownloc 3 years ago
I've used drugs and alcohol to some degree, or another, for 27 years. The last 10 were spent in a severity I am hard-pressed to explain. Speaking from my own experiences, Dr. Peele has come to understand addiction better than anyone I've researched. The old model of addiction is not only antiquated, but is proved extremely harmful.
DB8088 3 years ago
Great video keep giving people alternatives to the cult aa
sherwoode7 3 years ago 4
You sound like you're describing a "bad habit". What about the alcoholic caught in the advanced stages of obsession/compulsion?
quickcap 4 years ago
Thanks for these videos!
telethon123 4 years ago