Vaccines Versus Herbal Remedies for the Swine Flu

[MrSammo1]

google, "Cancer as a fungus"

[miketonon]

tiatdivad, what I beleive it comes down to isn't so much "natural" and "unnatural" but the medical industry as with business in general, will try to get as much as they can from customers so that they will make out as good as they can but not screw people over too much so that the people don't uprise and rebell. I feel like the mainstream medical industry has been too greedy for their own sake and now they are seeing large numbers of people rebelling.

[makaisenki]

Then show me scientific studies that show conclusively that these alternative medicines test better than placebo in a double blind study from a reliable 3rd party that won't profit for proving alternative medicines.

You say you feel that alternative medicines are more effective and more moral. Well they aren't moral if you're only offering a slight increase above placebo

Claiming the morals without truthfully demonstrating it consistently scientifically is the most immoral thing I can think of

[makaisenki]

Homeopathy is an example of how it is 100 percent weatlh, 0 percent more effective than placebo.

I've tried alternative. Didn't do squat. Why? Because you have to test the stuff. You've seen positive effects in your life? Well glad it worked for you but you gotta realize that muslims, christians, jews, and pagans will do prayer rituals for health and will claim their deity is the real one because of their results.

We know that not all the gods could exist though right? Placebo effect is real.

[miketonon]

If I were to die off from this crazy world because of H1N1 (which is very very unlikely), so be it. I'd rather die than give the evil in the world the satisfaction!

[miketonon]

makaisenki, while you have posted up some half truths on here, you speak mostly nonsense.

tiatdivad, the real alternative healthcare is todays mainstream medicine. We as a people survived for at least thousands of years, then suddenly approximately 100 years ago things changed.

This life could be better with all the knowledge we all have put to good use, but insted we use it for our own greed. We cover up truth and play politics.

We should strive for the truth as a society!

[makaisenki]

Name 1 half truth and the "mostly nonsense" that I have stated.

Otherwise you're just being petty.

[miketonon]

makaisenki, heres a half truth you stated, depending on interpritation:

"Well science is the only proven and measurable way to explain processes and functions."

I agree with that statement, in and of itself, but you come off as if you mean, what the main stream medical industry claims is always correct. They contradict themselves so much, while some less "qualified" people claim before hand what the industry finally brings to light.

[makaisenki]

"You come off as if you mean"

Well that's defined as putting words in my mouth is it not? There are a lot of things we don't understand about the body. Eggs are good for you, eggs are bad for you, see a doctor before consuming eggs. This drug is passed by the FCC, oh wait it may do more harm than good, etc...

But there are way too many people guilty of saying "big pharma is evil and they want to profit off of sickness, but our methods can cure cancer so don't get treatment and pay us a lots"

[miketonon]

makaisenki, putting words in your mouth, matter of interpritation. Some doctors I've talked to say eggs are one of the most perfect, balanced foods and some doctors have told me to stay away from them. On a related note, some doctors have told me you need to keep your cholesterol low and others say it is better to be high and low can actually be deadly. Its difficult to get a good hold on the facts.

I believe if big pharma was more clear and honest, people wouldn't be so upset.

[makaisenki]

And I wouldn't be so upset with the alternative movement if their EXACT POSITION wasn't "Well you can't trust mainstream science because they want to kill you, by the way we have methods that can cure you of ALL of your diseases you just need to buy our books, pay subscription fees to our websites, and buy magnets that don't even truly do anything"

Kevin Trudeau is a perfect example. That guy is as big a con artist as it gets. Don't you want Alternative medicine people to be more clear & honest

[miketonon]

makaisenki, I see. It just frustrates me when I see family and friends sick and dieing from something they were told there was nothing that could be done for them when there very likely was, at least something to help their situation. I also know some people in the medical industry and they have seen a lot of politics.

[makaisenki]

That is an issue. That's why we desperately need health care reform. Get the bureaucracy that the private health insurances cause. But people act like government will bring bureaucracy to it, but that's been debunked with how medicare and medicaid work. People generally like them, doctors don't get paid as much but they usually like it and the hospitals know they're not getting stiffed

Fact is, doctors don't get paid to cure patients. Focusing more on preventive care is the first step to reform

[gigiontube]

makaisenki,

Kevin T is not a healer himself; He is a researcher. He wrote books by putting information together and published them. If you want natural treatments, go to a naturalist doctor, to a herbalist, o a chiropractor etc. . or. read a book that was written by a real expert, first hand. You can buy the Encyclopedia of Natural Medicine as well and study on your own. Books cost money, but ANY book is a lot cheaper than the cost of a visit to a regular doctor.

[makaisenki]

Alternative medicine is only alternative until it is proven to be effective.

At that point it ceases to be alternative medicine and it starts becoming actual medicine.

Some people swear up and down that faith healing really works. Anyone with a shred of skeptical insight can see how dumb those claims are yet so many people fall for those scams.

The argument that there is a conspiracy against alternative medicine doesn't work on me either. I'm not going to waste money on alternative treatments

[gigiontube]

Obviously you were not by a doctor that you are terminal and sent home to die. In that case, you will do anything. And people with an open mind find their cures in alternative medicine, believe it or not. Just keep an open mind. The arrogant people are the first to die from lack of knowledge. Go and watch "The beautiful truth" documentary. You can rented from Netflix or watch in on youtuve [multiple episodes].

Best wishes to you. Hope you stay healthy and need no doctor at all.

[makaisenki]

The thing is dude, my mom was told by a doctor that she killed her liver when she tried to kill herself with vodka and over 140 painkillers.

She believes that Yawhe cured her to the same extent that Islamics think that Alah cured them of their disease.

Our bodies have the amazing potential to heal themselves.

Alternative treatments are most certaintly a combination of placebo effects, and kindness (sometimes fake sometimes earnest) but some people will die from something entirely preventable

[gigiontube]

The only reason you are saying that it's because you have no knowledge of what 'alternative' medicine is. What is lebeled now as 'alternative' is in fact REAL medicine. Yawhe and Alah are fine, BUT people need real help to recover from diseases. Your mom can recover if she wants to. Go check Dr. Christopher web sites. He was one of the greatest herbalists of this country. He has few formulas which would help your mom. Lifestyle chages are needed, you can't heal while still drinking alcohol.

[gigiontube]

Principles of alternative medicine:

1) Stop entering poisonous substances into the body. This includes toxins from foods treated with pesticides and herbicides, water treated with chorine and fluoride, etc.

2) Cleanse the body - a process of detoxification. [there are 6 channels of elimination: kidneys, colon, skin, lungs, lymphatic system, liver]

[gigiontube]

con't...

3) Nourish the body and mind so the natural healing begins. Do it with organic good foods, herbal supplements and clean water. Live in a clean environment. Use stress releasing and relaxing techniques. Exercise to maintain skeleton, muscles and eliminate toxin via skin and lymphatic system. Exercise also oxygenates better the brain.

Yes, the body heals itself, but conditions to lead to that process MUST be created.

[gigiontube]

con't....

Thats why alternative medicine is not really addressing a specific disease. What it does, is to create the best conditions for putting the body and mind back in equilibrium [balance]. All of us have the power to heal ourselves, the only problem is, we dont know how to do it; Its where the alternative doctors, master herbalists, holistic nutrition consultants etc. come to place.

Hope now, you have a better understanding of what ALTERNATIVE medicine is about.

Many blessings.

[makaisenki]

Also living in a really clean environment is bad. Our bodies need to have their immune systems challenged regularly. The things you talk about is merely being coincious of the things you eat. It's not alternative medicine.

If I suddenly became a vegetarian and lost weight, it wouldn't be because I was using alternative medicine it was because I stopped eating things that make me fat.

Medicine is something like a polio vaccine. Medicine is doing things like pain pills, not what you talk about.

[makaisenki]

Why didn't you just send me a P.M. dude.

Look I've studied all of these things but all the evidence you have is all subjective, or anecdotal. The science does not show that your methods are really effective.

The only part of alternative medicine that WORKS is the fact that you're paying closer attention to the quality and quantity of your foods. Not with Organics, but just practicing healthier diets by cutting out our fatty American foods. I can't afford that kind of food.

[makaisenki]

Dude the science points to those not being real medicine. Fact is Organic foods in blind and even double blind studies can not be told apart from non organically grown foods of similar quality.

[makaisenki]

Dude first of, that was years ago. My mom stopped being an alchoholic a long time ago.

[makaisenki]

Oh and do these people not profit from their own agendas?

There are a lot of people who profit off of killing those too gullible to seek proper health.

I mean fact is prayer doctors have been debunked in every possible way even by groups with an agenda to prove that prayer helps. Yet people still seek out quacks to pray for health.

Your small argument is just ass effective the other way around.

Alternatie Medicine = Wealth not Health

[RevolutionaryJam]

the idea of alternative health is emphasis on wellness rather than sickness, look at waht makes people well and retain them at optimal state instead of having money paid to make someone better when they are ill

that only incentivises making people ill bro

[makaisenki]

It's just too bad that H1N1 effects the healthy worse than it effects people with weaker immune systems.

Diseases aren't simple. If everyone in the country was healthy as a horse with a strong immune system it would make H1N1 even more of a threat. So no matter what you've always got to take things into consideration.

Homeopathy is a great example because there's no science behind it, there's no effectiveness beyond placebo behind it, and yet they sell it because people want the alternative.

[makaisenki]

The mercury levels in these are trace amounts and are not toxic.

Our bodies actually require trace amounts of arsenic in order to function. Too much arsenic is bad.

The vaccines do not have enough mercury to be toxic.

By applying your same logic why would you eat any organic fruit? Even fruit grown organically is not guarenteed to have organic mulch, or to not be contaminated by other farms.

I would like you to listen to more skeptical thinkers and create a more informed point of view.

[Pambie36]

Profit, profit, profit. We live in a capitalist country and our government is basically corporate socialism.

I wholeheartedly agree that constant vaccinations are weakening our immune systems. I will not get this vaccine nor will my children.

When I feel a bug coming on, my remedy is a good dose of: oregano oil/olive leaf extract, mega C, zinc and garlic. Works like a charm.

[makaisenki]

I would advise you to look at the information regaurding H1N1 effecting the young and healthy disproportionately where as standard flu strands usually kill the old and weak.

Vaccines are a valid scientifically proven method that has improved our quality of life. I'm not telling you to vaccinate your kids, but I also would feel like a horrible person if I didn't at least advise you to look at the other side, and to at least keep an open mind about vaccines.

I believe you have received poor info

[miketonon]

tiatdivad, I'd like to learn more about herbs as well. Good plan!

[RevolutionaryJam]

vis a vis "that is NOT how your immune system works" I wish he would have explained how it DOES work

[makaisenki]

Well of course he will explain how it DOES work. You just have to go buy his book, listen to his lectures and if he's anything like Kevin Trudeau or Dr. Mercola pay monthly subscriptions to get the information that they feel is too valuable to provide to people.

There are people who make a living selling information, and there are those who make a living giving information away for free, but receive compensation on the fact that the information was deemed worthy of said compensation.

[RevolutionaryJam]

yeah? can you give me some examples of people who can make a living doing everythign they do for free?

[makaisenki]

Bull crap. Vaccines are proven to work. I've listened to the anti-vaccer spiel and i've listened to actual neurologists. Anti-vaccers are conspiracy theorists at best usually. At worst they're people no better than Kevin Trudeau who are willing to make up pseudo scientific offers that will not even help the situation.

The H1N1 virus is not going to be prevented just by being healthy alone. It hits the young and healthy where as standard flus hit the weak and elderly.

This is not a normal flu!

[davidnightingale]

5 stars and faved

[AkoyPinoy2]

Never heard of these herbs.

[marpoq]

beautiful. i love it

[zackiuk]

well im with dr mercola ,the rest is up to you may the best man win

[makaisenki]

The problem is if you're not getting a vaccine for the H1N1 and you are fairly young and even healthy you increase your chances of getting hit with the H1N1 Virus.

Swine flu is not to be scoffed at, it is a real threat. 30k die every year from the regular flu that hits mostly the elderly and those with weak immunes. H1N1 flu hits the young and reasonably healthy disproportionately.

This is a double whammy. More people may die of the flu strands this year than car accidents due anti-vaccers.

[fiapop]

Where do you get your info on how vaccines are good for u? The government? Big Pharma's website? If you do a few hours of research and read a book or two from NONmainstream scientists and doctors, you will be OVERWHELMED with the evidence

of how vaccines are actually more harmful than people think. Pick up a book from Dr. Russell Blaylock, or google some of his video lectures. AN expert in brain activity, neurotoxicity, former neurosurgeon. Look at studies that have less bias.

[fiapop]

just as an addition.. I have just recently over the past few weeks have been hearing many ads and propaganda on RADIO STATIONS about a "new dog influenza" virus, pushing you to get your dog this new dog flu vaccine.

Its all for profit. Money profit drives all this propaganda.

Just like Cap & Trade as a fix for global warming. They are going to try and create another derivative bubble so they can make more billions.

[makaisenki]

Cap and trade used to be the republican answer.

I mean people say "follow the money trail" and all this bullshit but what they don't understand is that there are fucking agendas on BOTH sides of the argument.

If Al Gore's methods go through he profits, if his methods don't go through then all the big corporations as well as the oil companies profit.

Mercola relies just as much on pushing his agenda as the big pharma.

I'm listening to expert neurologists who isn't trying to sell me his books.

[makaisenki]

I have read non mainstream material. I've also heard them debunk those statements.

Where do I get my information? Well I listen to skeptics. I look at the kind of organizations that endorse and support them and the kind of people they associate with.

Kevin Treudau is a fine example of the fraudulent psuedo sciences out there.

Give me double blind studies that support your information and THEN maybe we'll talk.

There's a lot of people who claim to be experts but are really just business men.

[miketonon]

Kevin Trudeau is a entrepreneural salesman. BUT I have read his health books and I agree with at least the majority of the information.

Anyone who hasn't read his books I suggest you read them for yourself. Try to find a friend or library that has them before buying them yourself.

[miketonon]

makaisenki, what I heard is within 30 days after getting vaccinated for H1N1, you shed the virus. I also heard the virus can be picked up by a person as far as 10 feet away.

Personally I believe the swine flu was planted and or engineered. I RECOMMEND NO ONE GET THE VACCINE!

If you are healthy and careful you should be fine, even if you get the swine flu, you might not even know about it.

Take vitamin C and D3 in the colder months. If you get sick, plenty of warm water helps.

[makaisenki]

What medical degree do you have to recommend that "NO ONE GET THE VACCINE!"

how much have you been involved with reading peer reviewed studies on the effects?

You're not in a position to give ANY medical advice. I am not providing medical advice. I'm not telling anyone to go and get the vaccines. I'm not saying anyone is stupid if they don't get the vaccines. I'm merely stating that the science seems to have debunked the "Vaccines are deadly" theory and that people re-evaluate their choices.

[miketonon]

I don't need a degree to see the truth buddy!

Reading studies proves NOTHING to me, it only shows me what someone else has written for people to read. THATS IT, TAKE IT WITH A GRAIN OF SALT, SO TO SPEAK.

Now lets see if this will post to the video, unlike my last post.

[makaisenki]

Well science is the only proven and measurable way to explain processes and functions.

What other measure do you have? I'm not saying that all studies are perfect, double blind controlled studies are the best science has to offer.

Look I'll make it simple. As long as people believe in the stupidest things like homeopathy and prayer doctors and put their life on the line with trust in the most absurd practices, you can only trust the sciences. Placebos exist and that is why science is important

[miketonon]

makaisenki, I absolutely agree with the first part of your previous comment. But, corruption is a big problem. The general public is so often told that something is a proven, double-blind scientific study, when it isn't. If it suits the company trying to profit off the particular drug and they can get away with selling it, at least for the time being, whats to stop them?

And placebos appearantly do exist. Now what does that tell us? Maybe there is something more than science has yet to prove

[TIGITOE]

A Doctor called Alfons Weber from Germany has actually researched the cause of cancer and found that micro parasites who nourish and reproduce them self in the red blood cells cause cancer at damaged cells of the body.

[makaisenki]

Anti-vaccers are insane. Period.

Vaccines work.

Swine flu vaccine is important because it gets this strand of flu introduced in such a small amount that your body can adapt to the adapted flu virus.

Fact is, Swine flu is attacking those who are young and healthy. Being healthy will not protect you from this virus.

This guy doe not understand what the fuck swine flu is and ALL the science points to vaccines being safe. This guy is intellectually dishonest, or he is using pseudo science.

[fiapop]

just like all the "science" points to man made global warming right?

But now leaked emails and documents from the "scientist's" source... discredit most of their claims...

[makaisenki]

Those leaked documents are not a discredit. They are taken out of context.

The raw data that was deleted has been reported to be data that they DID NOT OWN. It was not theirs. It was data collected from other labs with liscenses. Most of that RAW data exists today.

Furthermore there is a valuable Global Climate Change Skeptical debate going on,but to flat out deny global warming straight up is intellectually dishonest.

the scientific method is THE most reliable way to understand a mechanism.

[fiapop]

i am not denying 'global warming'

However I am denying that the MAIN cause is human made.

Earth temps rise and fall due to many other things that are IRRELEVANT of human activity. Solar Cycles and Ocean cycles are the major drive of global temperature.

Earth is billions of years old, 200years of activity is a MINute spec of time. Carbon dioxide is actually healthy for plants and make MORE plants grow and grow faster, and actually as a result release more oxygen, for us humans to breathe.

[shawnaspen25]

YOUR DUMB!!

[zackiuk]

thank you dr mercola

[makaisenki]

for what? So someone can sell you a pseudo science antidote for a disease that they don't understand?

I was on the fence about whether or not I can trust mercola, but if Mercola is an anti-vaccer then I lost much more of my trust in him.

Anti-Vaccers like Bill Maher, and Donald R. Yance need to read up on SCIENCE, not pseudo science.

If they have a better method then do a double blind study and have it peer reviewed, or admit you're anti-science.

[EssiacHempLaetrile]

Google "pubmed"

Enter "Cannabinoids Cancer"

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