@pandirasbox but thats the whole point. Christ is the one through whom the Father's grace was bestowed on us. You don't see that as a form of mediation? I was not saying that the Father is an icon either. What i was saying is that the only means through which we can establish a relationship with the Father is through the Son. We are not establishing a relationship with the Father directly.
@pandirasbox and that would be true if you were a modalist. If youre not a modalist, the Father and the Son are distinct hypostases in the Trinity and therefore a relationship with Christ is only a relationship with the Father by means of mediation through Christ.
@pandirasbox I've heard that he was defrocked from the Russion Orthodox Church while it was still out of communion with the rest of Orthodoxy and joined a jurisdiction that was in communion.
@gambleor It wasn't the Russian Orthodox Church it was ROCOR. ROCOR were schismatics up untill very recently, besides he left, So that's like firing some one after they quit. Vadyka Lazar is OCA and he is in good standing with all in the eastern orthodox communion
@pandirasbox but thats what he said. We don't have a direct relationship with God the Father. We have a relationship with the Father only through the Son.
@gambleor Having a relatonship with Christ= a relationship with the Father directly. Through the gnosis of Christ we have come to know the father in truth. There is no hair splitting needed here. We can have a direct relationship with God. For the veil of the temple was rent in two! The priests no longer control communion with God. You can think what you want. The clear evidence of scripture shows that Levites and the old law are done for. You still worship in temples made by hands.
You have got to be kidding me. How did you take the last passage to mean you cannot have a personal relationship with God? Jesus is saying that whoever knows Christ knows the Father, plain and simple. Stop contorting the clear intention of the Lord. One who knows Christ knows God, end of story.
@gambleor First off, the Bible tells us to have a direct relationship with Christ which is equal to having a relationship with the Father. It is very elementary. The quotes Lazar is using prove just that. The law of Christ teaches us the will of the Father. We need only know the law of Christ in order to have a working relationship with God. We act on the law of Christ and we come into conformity with the Godhead.
@pandirasbox he's OCA he left ROCOR when they were still schismatic, but anyway that's like firing some one after they quit. ROCOR was in schism up until 08 or 09. Vadyka Lazar left before the re-union between ROCOR and the Church of Russia
@YusefAlTahir Schism is a work of the flesh while heresy is merely an opinion. The very idea that making a choice is heresy is nonsense. It is starting factions that is heresy! Stupid disputes and stupid definitions by animal men.
@pandirasbox yes and ROCOR was in full schism. just because they did not trust the russian patriach they broke off from the entire eastern orthodox communion, Antiochians, greeks, albanio-italians, Crete, Serbia, Carpatho-Rus, Alexandria everyone. Rocor was seriously messed up and the part of ROCOR that did not come back into communion is called ROAC and they are super crazy. They claim to be the only Orthodox people on the planet and their biggest parish is in Indiana and has 15 members. LOL
@YusefAlTahir It is the labels within the church that create the schisms. Your philosophical definitions only bite you all in the butt. You treat Christ as if he were the fleshly body of Jesus. If this were true, he would have to have flown into the sky and then he'd come back as a man and the logos would have one unified nature and the hypostatic union couldn't be true. The Orthodox seem to merge Gnostic ideas with the ideas of the Cerinthian party. It doesn't make any sense.
@gambleor Yes. I am a temple to God as are all believers. Therefore we all have unmediated relationships with the Father by his grace that was delivered by Christ, his son. So, yes. God is a living God, not a dead icon. The same goes for Christ.
Dr Spann seems not only rude, but may not have done a good job of explaining Evangelica/Southern Baptist theology.
I don't know of any SB who thinks he can know the essence of God the Father. Our only revelation of God is the Son.
Secondly, every SB, Evangelical, Bible Baptist church that I have been a part of discusses God's (Jesus) OT appearances. The arrogance of this man's thinking IS sadly representative of his denomination. To him Salvation is a one time Born Again experience. Period.
It is ironic that you called the Evangelical Bible Worship as a form of idolitry. I have always thought this to be the case but, being unread, did not know how to express it. Once again, thank you for wisdom.
It is difficult to please everyone with whichever approach one takes. I am discussing the issues, including the propensity of many Protestant "ourreachers" to grossly misrepresent the Orthodox Church, and to use completely false statement about it. Dr Spann actually used falsehood in his "case studies." It is easy enough to forgive anyone, but not so easy to leave the issues and questions unaddressed.
@allsaintsmonastery I have come to this interaction somewhat late. I have been unable to find Dr. Spann's treatise. Can you provide a link, copy, or summary of what he is claiming?
@allsaintsmonastery good for you, we should always be compassionate but never luke warm. You deal with Mr. spann in a much more gentle way than I would. I am glad you have made these viseo and have been sending them to christians who are my subscribers and who I care about, Peace to you From Yusef. Thank you for being a light in a dark world (the world of North American christianity)
His Eminence is not treating Dr. Spann disrespectfully, IMHO. He's merely addressing the issue, which is highly overdue. I spent my whole life in a condemning Baptist church and proud to say I will be chrismated in June 2008 and can put a lot of these false teachings behind me once and for all.
En fait, je suis plus irrité avec nos enseignants Orthodoxes que je suis avec Dr. Spann. Il dérive beaucoup de sa mauvaise information des livres et de catechisms "Orthodoxes". Ceci est véritablement tragique
This was a reply to another Canadian, who had sent a note to my "inbox". His question was in French, so my reply was in French. We use both languages in Canada.
Matt Spann and his ilk simply reject and deny John 4:4-6. And believe the Lord lied and failed in what he said he would do and stated he would do in Matthew 16:18-19.
Thank you your eminence. Your teaching is enlightening. I had always assumed that it was God the Father who spoke and revealed himself to the patriarchs of the Old Testement.
@pandirasbox but thats the whole point. Christ is the one through whom the Father's grace was bestowed on us. You don't see that as a form of mediation? I was not saying that the Father is an icon either. What i was saying is that the only means through which we can establish a relationship with the Father is through the Son. We are not establishing a relationship with the Father directly.
gambleor 1 week ago
@pandirasbox and that would be true if you were a modalist. If youre not a modalist, the Father and the Son are distinct hypostases in the Trinity and therefore a relationship with Christ is only a relationship with the Father by means of mediation through Christ.
gambleor 1 week ago
@YusefAlTahir thats correct. Thats what i meant to say.
gambleor 1 week ago
@pandirasbox I've heard that he was defrocked from the Russion Orthodox Church while it was still out of communion with the rest of Orthodoxy and joined a jurisdiction that was in communion.
gambleor 1 week ago
@gambleor It wasn't the Russian Orthodox Church it was ROCOR. ROCOR were schismatics up untill very recently, besides he left, So that's like firing some one after they quit. Vadyka Lazar is OCA and he is in good standing with all in the eastern orthodox communion
YusefAlTahir 1 week ago
@YusefAlTahir Schismatics, why listen to them? I'd rather be a simple heretic than a full blown schismatic who leads others out of the church.
pandirasbox 1 week ago
@pandirasbox but thats what he said. We don't have a direct relationship with God the Father. We have a relationship with the Father only through the Son.
gambleor 1 week ago
@gambleor Having a relatonship with Christ= a relationship with the Father directly. Through the gnosis of Christ we have come to know the father in truth. There is no hair splitting needed here. We can have a direct relationship with God. For the veil of the temple was rent in two! The priests no longer control communion with God. You can think what you want. The clear evidence of scripture shows that Levites and the old law are done for. You still worship in temples made by hands.
pandirasbox 1 week ago
You have got to be kidding me. How did you take the last passage to mean you cannot have a personal relationship with God? Jesus is saying that whoever knows Christ knows the Father, plain and simple. Stop contorting the clear intention of the Lord. One who knows Christ knows God, end of story.
pandirasbox 2 weeks ago
@pandirasbox So you have a direct, unmediated relationship with the Father?
gambleor 1 week ago
@gambleor First off, the Bible tells us to have a direct relationship with Christ which is equal to having a relationship with the Father. It is very elementary. The quotes Lazar is using prove just that. The law of Christ teaches us the will of the Father. We need only know the law of Christ in order to have a working relationship with God. We act on the law of Christ and we come into conformity with the Godhead.
pandirasbox 1 week ago
@gambleor Besides, wasn't Lazar deposed and isn't this public knowledge?
pandirasbox 1 week ago
@pandirasbox he's OCA he left ROCOR when they were still schismatic, but anyway that's like firing some one after they quit. ROCOR was in schism up until 08 or 09. Vadyka Lazar left before the re-union between ROCOR and the Church of Russia
YusefAlTahir 1 week ago
@YusefAlTahir Schism is a work of the flesh while heresy is merely an opinion. The very idea that making a choice is heresy is nonsense. It is starting factions that is heresy! Stupid disputes and stupid definitions by animal men.
pandirasbox 1 week ago
@pandirasbox yes and ROCOR was in full schism. just because they did not trust the russian patriach they broke off from the entire eastern orthodox communion, Antiochians, greeks, albanio-italians, Crete, Serbia, Carpatho-Rus, Alexandria everyone. Rocor was seriously messed up and the part of ROCOR that did not come back into communion is called ROAC and they are super crazy. They claim to be the only Orthodox people on the planet and their biggest parish is in Indiana and has 15 members. LOL
YusefAlTahir 1 week ago
@YusefAlTahir It is the labels within the church that create the schisms. Your philosophical definitions only bite you all in the butt. You treat Christ as if he were the fleshly body of Jesus. If this were true, he would have to have flown into the sky and then he'd come back as a man and the logos would have one unified nature and the hypostatic union couldn't be true. The Orthodox seem to merge Gnostic ideas with the ideas of the Cerinthian party. It doesn't make any sense.
pandirasbox 1 week ago
@pandirasbox the subject we were talking about was schism, ROCOR was the one that broke off not the other way around
YusefAlTahir 1 week ago
@gambleor Yes. I am a temple to God as are all believers. Therefore we all have unmediated relationships with the Father by his grace that was delivered by Christ, his son. So, yes. God is a living God, not a dead icon. The same goes for Christ.
pandirasbox 1 week ago
ah good this one I can hear your words
XSC3 2 weeks ago
"Southern Baptist manual for converting Orthodox Christians to whatever" Lol!! :)
magnus56j 3 months ago
God bless you
Nickbully 1 year ago
Dr Spann seems not only rude, but may not have done a good job of explaining Evangelica/Southern Baptist theology.
I don't know of any SB who thinks he can know the essence of God the Father. Our only revelation of God is the Son.
Secondly, every SB, Evangelical, Bible Baptist church that I have been a part of discusses God's (Jesus) OT appearances. The arrogance of this man's thinking IS sadly representative of his denomination. To him Salvation is a one time Born Again experience. Period.
macpduff 2 years ago
Father has just owned the entire Southern Baptist convention!! One Orthodox monk!!
cuttlefisch 2 years ago 11
It is ironic that you called the Evangelical Bible Worship as a form of idolitry. I have always thought this to be the case but, being unread, did not know how to express it. Once again, thank you for wisdom.
CatholicandOrthodox 3 years ago 2
As a long time Baptist I've seen nothing contradictory with this man. All minor stuff.
ronoman88 3 years ago
It is difficult to please everyone with whichever approach one takes. I am discussing the issues, including the propensity of many Protestant "ourreachers" to grossly misrepresent the Orthodox Church, and to use completely false statement about it. Dr Spann actually used falsehood in his "case studies." It is easy enough to forgive anyone, but not so easy to leave the issues and questions unaddressed.
allsaintsmonastery 3 years ago
@allsaintsmonastery I have come to this interaction somewhat late. I have been unable to find Dr. Spann's treatise. Can you provide a link, copy, or summary of what he is claiming?
kitiowa 9 months ago
@allsaintsmonastery good for you, we should always be compassionate but never luke warm. You deal with Mr. spann in a much more gentle way than I would. I am glad you have made these viseo and have been sending them to christians who are my subscribers and who I care about, Peace to you From Yusef. Thank you for being a light in a dark world (the world of North American christianity)
YusefAlTahir 1 week ago
His Eminence is not treating Dr. Spann disrespectfully, IMHO. He's merely addressing the issue, which is highly overdue. I spent my whole life in a condemning Baptist church and proud to say I will be chrismated in June 2008 and can put a lot of these false teachings behind me once and for all.
sthomas68 3 years ago 7
Archbishop,
I agree with much of what you say. I had skimmed over Spann's article before throwing it away (I have been there before).
But I must say that you seem quite hostile to this gentleman. Could you try to be a little more forgiving?
sprtslvr1973 4 years ago
En fait, je suis plus irrité avec nos enseignants Orthodoxes que je suis avec Dr. Spann. Il dérive beaucoup de sa mauvaise information des livres et de catechisms "Orthodoxes". Ceci est véritablement tragique
allsaintsmonastery 4 years ago
How does French came up, would you kindly respond in english?
pedelcosa 2 years ago
This was a reply to another Canadian, who had sent a note to my "inbox". His question was in French, so my reply was in French. We use both languages in Canada.
allsaintsmonastery 2 years ago
Undertood, thank you
pedelcosa 2 years ago
Please pray hard for the liberation of America of guys like Spann.
ituin 4 years ago 6
Vladka, I am glad that you are putting Mr. Spann in his place. If anything has to be said, Mr. Spann and the Baptist are a false teaching.
jdalbashvili 4 years ago 2
Matt Spann and his ilk simply reject and deny John 4:4-6. And believe the Lord lied and failed in what he said he would do and stated he would do in Matthew 16:18-19.
ophuchew 4 years ago
Thank you your eminence. Your teaching is enlightening. I had always assumed that it was God the Father who spoke and revealed himself to the patriarchs of the Old Testement.
nojoso 4 years ago 2