One part of the brain must have been 'conscious' so the caller had a reasonable point.The two people on the panel imagine they know about something(The conscious self)that is regarded as a mystery by nearly all scientists and philosophers.Matt watches a three minute youtube clip and imagines himself an expert.I've noticed that Matt tends to hang up on callers when the going gets a bit tough for him but keeps talking to callers who aren't very bright or well educated.
damn he caught him on that one. I don't even I could have caught that as fast as Matt I and I have to deal with theist assholes in philosophy classes all the time.
AWESOME EXAMPLE! I remembered reading about that classical patient back in my psych 101 class, i totally forgot about it...i love to see Christians getting all worked up over it lol
Cognition, memory etc. is all quite reducible via functional reductions. Qualia on the other hand (qualitative states) are still a problem according to many. The arguments here are somewhat simplistic. At the end of the day if all but the very sensation of say pain can be reduced to physical states (and it is ilkely that pain is also a physical state though we don't understand how), then yeah... If a person gets a braininjury and his personality is changed, which person goes to heaven? ;)
Does a soul enter the egg at the moment of conception? If so, what happens if it splits into 2 or more (i.e. identical twins, triplets, etc.)? Do they share 1 soul, or does the original stay with 1 and the others get their own? If they each get their own soul when they split, and they fuse into 1 zygote again, does that zygote have more than 1 soul? Where does the soul reside? Does a fetus with 2 heads but only 1 body have 2 souls or 1? How about a fetus with 1 head, but 2 bodies?
The mind and the brain are fundamentally one so they do not act upon each other.
Inner perceptions of the mind/brain are called mind while outer perceptions are
called brain. When we have a thought and measure brain waves, both are of the
same event. We are conscious of the activity 2 different ways(inner/outer) so it is not necessary to say that one caused the other. Thinking uses a point of reference so
we think that thoughts cause actions and elect. activity causes thoughts
Since humans stepped out of the caves, we were constantly expanding our circle of love to include more people. We now reject genocide, racism and incest, things that were common centuries ago. We are in a crucial point in our development. Becoming completely spiritual by rejecting all selfish instincts and materialism is the next step. Rejecting Jesus, which represents 100% love, as a role model, is a step back for our consciousness. The time has come to raise our consciousness to the next level
If someone has a brain that is too badly damaged to function at all then then the hardware won't be any state for the soul/self or whatever you want to call it to interact with and use. The persons soul may well still be attached to the body in some way while its still alive but I don't know. I'm not really sure about the brain generating consciousness from some kind of self contained process. What size brain is required for whatever it is to suddenly "turn on" and what is the mechanism for it?
@Enzo012 "then the hardware won't be [in] any state for the soul/self... to interact with and use" >> So you are claiming that the soul is dependent upon the brain (hardware) to "interact". This seems to imply there could be souls out there floating around lost without a brain to let them manifest in any way. If they are not independent of the brain, you've renamed consciousness. If the soul is separate yet dependent, it's consciousness with an extra, magical, and pretty pointless affectation.
@rrpostalagain that would be the atman or whatever you want to call it, the unchanging eternal centre that is fully at one with God. You have get into your mediation, yoga and general mysticism to catch a glimpse of it. The techniques have been developed over the last 10,000 years.
Both halves of the brain are still connected to the rest of the body via the brainstem though. A soul would have no problem using both halves even if the two halves can't communicate with each other.
@Enzo012 You still don't seem to get the main point: if the two sides of the brain were both the domain of the soul, why would one half have different beliefs than the other. If the soul would have 'no problem using both halves', why would it disagree with itself.
@57worldwide The left half of the brain deals more with logic and the fine details so is science orientated and the right side deals more with intution and the whole and that half is tends to be spiritually orientated. The brainstem is probably where the soul connects to the brain if it exists. Assuming the rest of the brain is a type of computer the soul uses.
There is a flaw to your argument, still. Even though one side deals more with logic, this does not mean only one side is used for logic. Your brain will use both sides but simply not as much of one side.
People who have been blind for most of their life, from birth or early childhood, will use the part of their brain associated with sight (among people who have vision).
The question was also wether the two separate persnalities each have a soul.
@57worldwide Its not that the soul would be physically inside the brain halves anymore than radiowaves are inside a radio. So both halves would be picking up the same transmission then physically interacting with it to form the mind of the organism. Or what you see on your PC monitor isn't physically inside your PC its the bit you can see and interact with. So if you smash a radio or monitor all you heard and saw would still be there but in a form you can't see or interact with. Just an idea.
@Enzo012 You are, in effect, saying the soul is less than the essence of the person.
You haven't defined what a soul is or it's supposed function, you simply started with an assumption that the soul exists. There is not necessarily a need for a soul.
Use the computer example. There is a hard drive. There is a monitor. On top of all the processes we know about, there is a magical soul which has no known function and is not known to exist - why argue about where it might be?
@57worldwide the soul would be whatever it is that makes an organism consciously aware, assuming the brain is interacting with something already exists rather than creating something that didn't previously exist. It could be transeferable between different physical bodies if past life regression is real. Or at least it's assumed you can get by just fine without a physical body in some other form. If it doesn't exist then it would be an equally interesting situation not based on any evidence.
@Enzo012 Not based on any evidence? Have you read anything about how the brain works?
You are still assuming the soul exists, and inventing things it does. If the soul makes someone consciously aware, what happens to people in comas? Is their soul still there, and just decides not to make them consciously aware? Is their soul gone, and that is why they are unconscious and still alive?
What evidence do you have of souls existing at all, in order to posit they can get by without a physical body?
@57worldwide We have some knowledge that the brain works as a form of organic computer system. Though of course no computer we have made is actually conscious so we have no idea at all how that's meant to work. If you were take the soul as your conscious self then of course it does exist you can't argue against cogito ergo sum. Many coma victims are conscious to some degree as they can be asked to imagine something and their brain scan image will light up showing that they're visualising it.
@Enzo012 There are different comas. Some are, like you said, still conscious to some degree, while others are not conscious at all. Is their soul gone?
You can't take the soul as your conscious self. You are simply applying an unknown to something else. Consciousness is not the soul, it is an action of the brain. Like I already asked, if consciousness was the soul, are some people in comas without a soul?
Matt said there at the end: one side of the brain does everything that the other side does and it does it without a soul. it doesn't believe in God. that's one thing. should he have said: one side of the brain can do everything that the other side does?
@Scars831 I think the sound is pretty good :), there is no much action in a studio, just 2 faces :) so enjoy the sound :) and try to appreciate the fact that the video clip is posted.
@Scars831 is a better quality because "TheAtheistExperience" is working on the video to look better... I'm new with this stuff and I'm doing my best :).
@eminescinescu I agree. I listen to these while I play some games. Good brain training for debating. Shame we don't have such ignorant people here in the Netherlands or I could put it to practice.
@mutomeister Well, then I suppose one needs their creative, right side of brain to be able to....imagine there's no god....and consequently become an atheist...either way, kewel.
I have a strong interest in how the brain works, especially because of specific illnesses, injuries, birth anomalies and so on. When it comes to the concept of souls the huge stuff is in twins, chimeras, and the like. The next place I looked was when and where the concept of souls first started. It is like most religious accounts, people making up stories to explain reality.
If souls exist like the caller on this show says, then brain damage wouldn't alter people's personalities.
@nidodson I respectfully disagree. I think that when people's brains get damaged it does indeed affect their cognitive faculties. For instance, damage to a person's frontal lobe can affect their judgement. However, you could think of a person's mind as a CD and the brain as a CD player. The CD player is the medium that the CD works through. Just as the brain is the medium that the mind works through. So, if the CD player is damaged the CD cannot properly work through it anymore.
@nidodson This could be the same with the brain. Does the CD player being damaged mean the CD is altered too? Of course not. So, in the same way, simply because someone has a damaged brain doesnt mean they dont have a mind. It simply means the mind comes through distorted through its medium the brain.
I was saying that for souls to exist, then brain damage wouldn't effect them. The reality is that brain damage effects people's personality, motor skills, perception and beyond. Therefore souls don't exist, or else the personality/essence of the person would stay the same.
One part of the brain must have been 'conscious' so the caller had a reasonable point.The two people on the panel imagine they know about something(The conscious self)that is regarded as a mystery by nearly all scientists and philosophers.Matt watches a three minute youtube clip and imagines himself an expert.I've noticed that Matt tends to hang up on callers when the going gets a bit tough for him but keeps talking to callers who aren't very bright or well educated.
henryporter101 1 week ago
damn he caught him on that one. I don't even I could have caught that as fast as Matt I and I have to deal with theist assholes in philosophy classes all the time.
MirageScience 2 months ago
That was a pretty good trap.
blackacidlizzard 2 months ago
AWESOME EXAMPLE! I remembered reading about that classical patient back in my psych 101 class, i totally forgot about it...i love to see Christians getting all worked up over it lol
Casshyr 3 months ago
Why the fuck are we debating the existence of some internal-astral-fog in this day and age?
SeedsOfHatred 3 months ago
@SeedsOfHatred Because people still fear death.
WirlWind494 3 months ago
@WirlWind494 Psh. People need to grow up a bit, I say.
SeedsOfHatred 3 months ago
lol, good way to destroy your own argument buddy.
alinkyng 3 months ago
lmfao
"We're done."
Wrathmont313 4 months ago
Cognition, memory etc. is all quite reducible via functional reductions. Qualia on the other hand (qualitative states) are still a problem according to many. The arguments here are somewhat simplistic. At the end of the day if all but the very sensation of say pain can be reduced to physical states (and it is ilkely that pain is also a physical state though we don't understand how), then yeah... If a person gets a braininjury and his personality is changed, which person goes to heaven? ;)
mikaelhs 4 months ago
@mikaelhs If his personality is changed he's still one person, isn't he?
tttc 3 months ago
@mikaelhs we do understand how pain is a physical state, actually...
dieghettozz 2 months ago
Does a soul enter the egg at the moment of conception? If so, what happens if it splits into 2 or more (i.e. identical twins, triplets, etc.)? Do they share 1 soul, or does the original stay with 1 and the others get their own? If they each get their own soul when they split, and they fuse into 1 zygote again, does that zygote have more than 1 soul? Where does the soul reside? Does a fetus with 2 heads but only 1 body have 2 souls or 1? How about a fetus with 1 head, but 2 bodies?
YY4Me133 4 months ago
thumbs up if you think rebecca black is the best F#$%ing singer ever!
parkerthehicks 4 months ago
The mind and the brain are fundamentally one so they do not act upon each other.
Inner perceptions of the mind/brain are called mind while outer perceptions are
called brain. When we have a thought and measure brain waves, both are of the
same event. We are conscious of the activity 2 different ways(inner/outer) so it is not necessary to say that one caused the other. Thinking uses a point of reference so
we think that thoughts cause actions and elect. activity causes thoughts
mentalphysicalism 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Since humans stepped out of the caves, we were constantly expanding our circle of love to include more people. We now reject genocide, racism and incest, things that were common centuries ago. We are in a crucial point in our development. Becoming completely spiritual by rejecting all selfish instincts and materialism is the next step. Rejecting Jesus, which represents 100% love, as a role model, is a step back for our consciousness. The time has come to raise our consciousness to the next level
dejesusluisx 4 months ago
If someone has a brain that is too badly damaged to function at all then then the hardware won't be any state for the soul/self or whatever you want to call it to interact with and use. The persons soul may well still be attached to the body in some way while its still alive but I don't know. I'm not really sure about the brain generating consciousness from some kind of self contained process. What size brain is required for whatever it is to suddenly "turn on" and what is the mechanism for it?
Enzo012 5 months ago
@Enzo012 "then the hardware won't be [in] any state for the soul/self... to interact with and use" >> So you are claiming that the soul is dependent upon the brain (hardware) to "interact". This seems to imply there could be souls out there floating around lost without a brain to let them manifest in any way. If they are not independent of the brain, you've renamed consciousness. If the soul is separate yet dependent, it's consciousness with an extra, magical, and pretty pointless affectation.
rrpostalagain 4 months ago
@rrpostalagain that would be the atman or whatever you want to call it, the unchanging eternal centre that is fully at one with God. You have get into your mediation, yoga and general mysticism to catch a glimpse of it. The techniques have been developed over the last 10,000 years.
Enzo012 4 months ago
Both halves of the brain are still connected to the rest of the body via the brainstem though. A soul would have no problem using both halves even if the two halves can't communicate with each other.
Enzo012 8 months ago
@Enzo012 You still don't seem to get the main point: if the two sides of the brain were both the domain of the soul, why would one half have different beliefs than the other. If the soul would have 'no problem using both halves', why would it disagree with itself.
57worldwide 5 months ago
@57worldwide The left half of the brain deals more with logic and the fine details so is science orientated and the right side deals more with intution and the whole and that half is tends to be spiritually orientated. The brainstem is probably where the soul connects to the brain if it exists. Assuming the rest of the brain is a type of computer the soul uses.
Enzo012 5 months ago
@Enzo012 You mean 'assuming the soul exists'.
There is a flaw to your argument, still. Even though one side deals more with logic, this does not mean only one side is used for logic. Your brain will use both sides but simply not as much of one side.
People who have been blind for most of their life, from birth or early childhood, will use the part of their brain associated with sight (among people who have vision).
The question was also wether the two separate persnalities each have a soul.
57worldwide 5 months ago
@57worldwide Its not that the soul would be physically inside the brain halves anymore than radiowaves are inside a radio. So both halves would be picking up the same transmission then physically interacting with it to form the mind of the organism. Or what you see on your PC monitor isn't physically inside your PC its the bit you can see and interact with. So if you smash a radio or monitor all you heard and saw would still be there but in a form you can't see or interact with. Just an idea.
Enzo012 5 months ago
@Enzo012 You are, in effect, saying the soul is less than the essence of the person.
You haven't defined what a soul is or it's supposed function, you simply started with an assumption that the soul exists. There is not necessarily a need for a soul.
Use the computer example. There is a hard drive. There is a monitor. On top of all the processes we know about, there is a magical soul which has no known function and is not known to exist - why argue about where it might be?
57worldwide 5 months ago
@57worldwide the soul would be whatever it is that makes an organism consciously aware, assuming the brain is interacting with something already exists rather than creating something that didn't previously exist. It could be transeferable between different physical bodies if past life regression is real. Or at least it's assumed you can get by just fine without a physical body in some other form. If it doesn't exist then it would be an equally interesting situation not based on any evidence.
Enzo012 5 months ago
@Enzo012 Not based on any evidence? Have you read anything about how the brain works?
You are still assuming the soul exists, and inventing things it does. If the soul makes someone consciously aware, what happens to people in comas? Is their soul still there, and just decides not to make them consciously aware? Is their soul gone, and that is why they are unconscious and still alive?
What evidence do you have of souls existing at all, in order to posit they can get by without a physical body?
57worldwide 5 months ago
@57worldwide We have some knowledge that the brain works as a form of organic computer system. Though of course no computer we have made is actually conscious so we have no idea at all how that's meant to work. If you were take the soul as your conscious self then of course it does exist you can't argue against cogito ergo sum. Many coma victims are conscious to some degree as they can be asked to imagine something and their brain scan image will light up showing that they're visualising it.
Enzo012 5 months ago
@Enzo012 There are different comas. Some are, like you said, still conscious to some degree, while others are not conscious at all. Is their soul gone?
You can't take the soul as your conscious self. You are simply applying an unknown to something else. Consciousness is not the soul, it is an action of the brain. Like I already asked, if consciousness was the soul, are some people in comas without a soul?
57worldwide 5 months ago
Matt said there at the end: one side of the brain does everything that the other side does and it does it without a soul. it doesn't believe in God. that's one thing. should he have said: one side of the brain can do everything that the other side does?
cutfriends981 11 months ago
That was too easy... Yet another caller/theist who has no clue of what he is talking about..
Katalyzt
Katalyzt 1 year ago
@DanielSellen No new label there.
There are two perspectives to that.
consciousness (the awareness)
Soul (the definition)
Like when you explain a telescope, one can look trough the lenz and the other looks at the object itself.
Newwaver2007 1 year ago
The caller was doomed as soon as he said "well, you can't prove it isn't"; debate over.
ikkoikki 1 year ago 2
horrible quality
Scars831 1 year ago
@Scars831 I think the sound is pretty good :), there is no much action in a studio, just 2 faces :) so enjoy the sound :) and try to appreciate the fact that the video clip is posted.
respect.
eminescinescu 1 year ago 24
@eminescinescu umm... the atheist experience already uploaded it in better quality and the whole conversation in a 14 min long video
Scars831 1 year ago
@Scars831 is a better quality because "TheAtheistExperience" is working on the video to look better... I'm new with this stuff and I'm doing my best :).
eminescinescu 1 year ago 15
@Scars831 So go watch it and stop complaining.
RamoneHoffman 2 months ago
@eminescinescu I agree. I listen to these while I play some games. Good brain training for debating. Shame we don't have such ignorant people here in the Netherlands or I could put it to practice.
Defhrone 4 months ago
Mouarf.... the caller got owned so bad with the last statement... Saying the the soul didn't split but choose one side of the brain! Mouhahah!
Faden111 1 year ago
AronRa needs to be on more of these.
Thulgore 1 year ago
I bet it was the left side that was atheist...the logical side...;)
julzabro 1 year ago
@julzabro Nope it was the right side to my knowledge :(
mutomeister 1 year ago
@mutomeister Well, then I suppose one needs their creative, right side of brain to be able to....imagine there's no god....and consequently become an atheist...either way, kewel.
julzabro 1 year ago
JHON!
quidproquo2004 1 year ago
It's actually a little ignorant, there are other ways to describe a soul.
There are dead people and there are alive people.
And our soul is our consciousness.
Newwaver2007 1 year ago
@lmhjs1000 Yes, Matt wins episodes where he's not there. He's just that awesome.
UnderlordZ 1 year ago
I have a strong interest in how the brain works, especially because of specific illnesses, injuries, birth anomalies and so on. When it comes to the concept of souls the huge stuff is in twins, chimeras, and the like. The next place I looked was when and where the concept of souls first started. It is like most religious accounts, people making up stories to explain reality.
If souls exist like the caller on this show says, then brain damage wouldn't alter people's personalities.
nidodson 1 year ago
@nidodson I respectfully disagree. I think that when people's brains get damaged it does indeed affect their cognitive faculties. For instance, damage to a person's frontal lobe can affect their judgement. However, you could think of a person's mind as a CD and the brain as a CD player. The CD player is the medium that the CD works through. Just as the brain is the medium that the mind works through. So, if the CD player is damaged the CD cannot properly work through it anymore.
mrstevenjake22 7 months ago
@nidodson This could be the same with the brain. Does the CD player being damaged mean the CD is altered too? Of course not. So, in the same way, simply because someone has a damaged brain doesnt mean they dont have a mind. It simply means the mind comes through distorted through its medium the brain.
mrstevenjake22 7 months ago
@mrstevenjake22
I was saying that for souls to exist, then brain damage wouldn't effect them. The reality is that brain damage effects people's personality, motor skills, perception and beyond. Therefore souls don't exist, or else the personality/essence of the person would stay the same.
nidodson 7 months ago
loved the ending... Matt & Dawkins are my heroes...
addieroxrev09 1 year ago
that was a knock out lol
Atheist603 1 year ago
This guy is braindead
And you can't disprove it!
Hairysteed 1 year ago
@Hairysteed And yet, we don't have to. He proved it himself.
UnderlordZ 1 year ago
Ouch! He was told off...
chessdawgz 1 year ago
Brilliant ending. :)
Sjarke98 1 year ago 35
LOL one half of the brain goes to heaven and the other half goes to hell
CIarKent 1 year ago 55
@CIarKent hahahaha that made my day.
sidelingscroll 1 year ago