Vox ToneLab ST works also with 12AX7 Tube removed (!)

[cwxvc]

I have had alot of amps, many of which had tubes only in the-amp gain stage. I noticed the only presets that work after you took out the tube is the clean sounds only, this is normal. tubes are favored by rock guitarsts to take the harsh edge off distortion. give is a warmer more pleasing sound. it appears vox has take the same approach by using the tube for distortion sounds in that pedal.

[mzwgd]

Yes. You has proved that tone lab do not work without tube in simulation that use tube and work without tube in simulation that do not use tube. You had to open the device to find out that in the middle of it there is a diode which gives pretty cool look. You truly are genius

[billkolias]

and wtf you want with 12,6 volt ,fire? what?

[oszyby]

Merry Christmas 2011 to all ST-Tonelabers!

[hovadopekelne]

@oszyby ... nice video. I would like to ask you. What do you think, how much beneficial is that tube for final tone. I used to use Zoom G92tt and planing to replace it with tonelab ...

[oszyby]

Honestly speaking, there is nothing like "sound like tube amp". Either device is "tube amp" or it is not. Nothing sounds like tube without real tube, real high voltage, real filament, ... inside and never will. TLST is kinda cheap stuff device. What would we expect for that price, miracle? Anyway, I´m usig it for jams, because is small, light and with personaly created few patches, does the job. Nota bene - did somebody see a starved singer singing good?

[oszyby]

Apinaka............Looks, that you didi not put enough atention (which I was trying to get) to my clip. Without the tube properly working patches are: 70, 87, 88, 92, 98. That´s all. LED is a gimmick, that´s obvious and another important remark: TLST HAS NOT A TRUE BYPASS circuit. I´ve introduced two mods on mine. 1) added an extra foot switch introducing true bypass, 2) added one more switch for instatnt tuning option because is was difficult for me on stage to press simultaneously two switches

[apinakapinastorba]

Would you please show how Tonelab works without tube when you try to use the amp simulations. I bet you cannot. I think this video was just to get some attention. The LED is important for the looks, but you did yourself admit that the TUBE HAS AN IMPORTANT FUNCTION. So, why to put a doubt over this device?

[apinakapinastorba]

LED is something many effect builders using starved circuits like to add. If you search for 'diy tube overdrive' in youtube, you will most likely find several tube overdrive pedals which's tube glows very brightly, or even glows with an odd color like white, blue or purple. That is because such a tube DOES NOT GLOW in a starved circuit. I have built some tube overdrives myself and witnessed that. Sound is great, but you dont got the 'correct' looks ;)

[oszyby]

Sorry 4 the delay in answering SLash. Normaly, the LED should get bright instatntly. It does not need time to get bright. If yours behaves like that, maybe it would b good idea 2 replace whole TLST. Such situation never did happend 2 me. Anyway, the LED has no influence at all at the sound, it is just fakeing tube filament.

[slash129]

Hey would be great if you could answer my question . I've brought this product recently n i'vr noticed at times the orange glow from the tube becomes so dim u can hardy see it , n after about 10 mins its back to the usual glow with no change in the sound of the tone !! Its happened twice so far , just wanna kno if this is normal ?? Has it happened to u ?? Should I get it replaced ?? also since its most likely that the LED is causing the bright light .

[Jeepjones85]

I do belive that they put it where it is for looks but it does play a roll in the overall sound of some presets, if you have ever opended it up to look the tube is actually tied into alot of different things, its like a mix between ss and tube with a pan knob. kinda like there valvetronix amp look up the wireing digram it makes no since lol

[dalekenjarvis]

Just use a tube amp!



[luigiperso]

@dalekenjarvis , Bigbrains, 'just use a tube amp' is not so straightforward. Everyone wants to use one, but they don't, I wonder why? Do wild bears shit in the woods?

[alexicaza]

All of the chosen presets ( 70, 87, 88, 92, 98) use "Clean CST" amp model [please refer to the operators manual]. Here is the description of this 'amp model' from the manual:

CST (Custom)

"This models only a four-band tone control that produces an

undistorted, pure, clean tone. The GAIN control is disabled. ... "

It is not an 'amp model' !

So it is not surprising that the tube/valve is not involved in those presets.

I have made the test with TL LE : no valve, no sound

[Chaif15Let]

@alexicaza This makes perfect sense. The tube is only needed for overdrive, so naturally all the clean settings will work fine without it.

[eoltorr]

but what about the vox tonelab ex the tube work? or is a simple marketing

[oszyby]

PLs note, that the tube even does not have a High Voltage Generator, what is the basis in every real vacum tube circuits. It works as a "Starved Plate Circuit" funny invention doing nothing, though the magical word "TUBE" still atracts beginners who are not expecting a gimmicks.

[luigiperso]

@oszyby , I don't think is a gimmick, I've used tube amps for years and am not a beginner, Starved plate. So what? For the price I can't complain, an high tension circuit, would cost lots more. The Tonelab gives a great and warm 12ax7 overdrive especially on certain presets with the pedals removed, it's the best tube m,odeller out there and I tried them all, hardware and software. I love mine and it's variety of sounds is quite impressive, I think it is very well designed.

[ibek1200]

I don't get it really. Once I had to remove the tube from my ST, and all unit went dead. There was no LED on, not to mention some mysterious glowing from the tube socket or any sound. Without the tube it was dead ! So I don't know what to think about this vid and just don't get it.

[oszyby]

Technically I agree with U 100%, "btnassu" . Many producers are using the same sales technic what makes me sorry also in the name of hundrets young, beginner guitarists who do not have enough experience to to separate true from false in musical electronics and are easily manipulated by commercial slogans of the leading entertainment sharks.

[btnassu]

BTW, if you change the tube, you'll notice the sound also gets slightly different (e.g. you can get more headroom).

Just to clarify: I'm not saying the tube operates some kind of miracle or anything. It is part of a much larger circuit, and most of the tone comes from the DSP. But it is not just a useless piece of glass sitting there. It does play a role, even if it has nothing to do with the "real tube tone" some expect when they "listen with their eyes" (and yes, the LED is for those people).

[btnassu]

The LED is just a gimmick indeed. The valve is not. A tube in a starved plate circuit doesn't get hot enough to light up, but some people would expect it to do so. It's kinda cheesy, but I've seen that in other products. The tube is obviously not doing what it would do inside an actual amp. But it is not just hanging there, either. It adds a dynamic and somewhat scratchy dirt. As I told you, in the old blue desktop version, you can even control that dirt independently.

[oszyby]

If it´s not a gimmick, which function has simulating filament orange LED then? As far, as I know, there is no reason 4 such LED in starved plate circuit.

[btnassu]

Presets 70,87,88,92,98 all use the red Clean setting, whicht is just an uncolored EQ with no amp modeling. The fact that these presets still work after removing the tube do NOT imply it is just a gimmick. The fact that the other presets don't work is what shows the tube does have a role.

The TL's circuit is obviously not comparable to an amp. The tube is used as a clipping device in a starved plate design. In the old desktop version, you can actually set the amount of dirt from valve reactor.

[ChrisNewYorkCity]

@btnassu Exactly. I just did this experiment myself. The only case where the unit works without a tube is on the clean channel / red, which is where the amp sim is disabled. The presets where it works without the tube are there for using the Tonelab as an effects box. I think this only proves that the tube does play a part in the circuit.

[oszyby]

Looks like, that faking tube functionality is now wide spreading contiguous disease growing up to epidemic size. This is obviously regreatable from the piont of view of many users who use to trust their beloved brands.

[idrinkensureplus247]

I think that is the same with the Crate Blue Voodoo!

All of my tubes burnt up, but the amp still sounds the same. Their are 4 l.e.d.s behind the 4 power amp tubes that are still lit up a amber color,making it look like the tube is still glowing. I have a Marshall Valvestate 100, I wonder if that is a gimic too.

I had a Rocktron Gainiac, that was tube powered preamp, and I know the tube works in those. It burnt up one day and the preamp quit working, I replaced tube and good as new.

[oszyby]

The whole idea of my presentation is to show, that the tube in ST has more commertial function, than technical. Tube used by me is fully functional.

Answering your question, it is always a good practice to have a spare 12AX7 tube within rich of hand. The best ones are tubes, that comply with military standards, which I´m using in my ST or Fender amps. Undestroyable! Thnx 4 interest.

[kustomkarson]

have you tried other tubes? just got my tlst.. i planning on haviing a backup tube just in case.. what tubes should i get and what best tube to use for tlst.. thanks!!!

[kustomkarson]

same tone without the tube?

[donkildemmusic]

incredible!! thank you.