so what does deism do for you? it allows you to believe in a God... so what??? nothing happens after you believe that God made this earth but is not in the earth. if you believe in a God, then there is a God right? so you know for sure that God just left the earth? now use reasonable thinking to figure that question. because you are not God, you do not know if He is still here or not... so, he could be on the Earth right? judging people and sending them to hell. that's possible right?
I see your point, but if he is still here and he is divine, while we are human,
"To err is human, to forgive is Divine"
should he not give us a steering hand or a warning or forgiveness? Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to be offense, but you seem to be reasonable enough to understand multiple sides of the same story.
yeah He gave us the Bible. all the warnings and guidelines for a Christian are in there. yeah i can see that it can be hard to believe in something that you can't see but in matthew 16:4 Jesus says "A wicked and adulterous generation looks for a miraculous sign, but none will be given it except the sign of Jonah." Jesus then left them and went away.
i know if Jesus showed Himself many many people would believe in Him but that isn't going to happen until the second coming i believe.
I LOVE being a Deist as well. Thank God that I took a history course in college in which I had to read Thomas Paine's Common Sense and Age of Reason. Lately I've been watching many debates featuring Christopher Hitchens, and he seems to win all of them in which the topic is Atheism vs Theism. As far as Deism goes, as he says, "I can't prove there isn't a God." As a Deist I believe that each individual has their own way of experiencing the majesty and wonderment of God.
Labels,names,words are all we have to communicate with one another.
As a pure Deist I don't worry about labels, I worry about other peoples understanding of them,and how these people effect our life,and the lives of our children.
Oh goodness how unfulfilling it must be to live in that state of ignorance for most of your life! Has anyone given this man an idea to at least figure out as to why he believes in these things? Does he even know why? The only proof he gives of these claims is the Christian Bible. Ok that's just confirming our take that revealed religion has no factual basis of proof right there. Those holy books are "hear say" only.
Until a god is actually disproven you cant judge... god=/=christian god. Just because you believe something bigger started all this doesn't mean you are related to a revealed religion. Everyone is allowed to go on their own pursuit of answers to god, creator, reason, and the beginning. Or the lack there of... So who are you to say anything about living in a state of ignorance when your the one trying to disprove the disprovable? (based on evidence currently known)
Whether deism, theism, agnosticism, etc., etc. it is just an exploration, and as you keep exploring, you will be disturbed by various winds and torrents of rain and thunder (adversary and supportive and pretensions opinions of others). With a full concentration which is possible only with prior self discipline, you can ignore or otherwise accept what convinces u and reject what doesnt. The exploration must be done thru actual life experiences, not just books and listening to lectures.
Nice statement, well thought out and respectful. extremely unyoutube like. Everyone has a right to their own path and an open mind only helps in ones pursuit for answers.
We give this Eternal Life Force/Energy/? a name to open the door of understanding. At this point in our evolutionary stage we use language to communicate with one another, so until we grow antennas words,"names",and titles are what we use to discuss this subject.
We as Deist don't tell you who,or what God is only that S/He/? is,and then show the"only" true path of understanding God (Universe,Consciousness,the Creation,Life Nature,?) which is Deism the latin word for God.
Deism means The belief, based solely on reason, in a God who created the universe and then abandoned it, assuming no control over life, exerting no influence on natural phenomena, and giving no supernatural revelation.
your a theist because you believe in the supernatural
still has apart in your life,
You refer to "God" as a sole being thats my problem,
there is no maker there is consciousness system that is eternal and apart of us just as much as the next person or thing.
I use Thomas Paine's definition of what,or who a Deist is. I use his instead of Noah Webster's like you seem to be using becouse Thomas Paine was a true Deist. Noah Webster was a devout Christian who had every reason to deter mankind from the reality of Deism.
Deism implies a path of understanding God rather then ones faith on the matter.
Your Pantheist view that I just may concur with is your personal faith (theory) on the matter,and no more.
Names may be silly,but without them it would be very difficult. Your screen name here for example is a name/brand that by clicking it I find you,or your channel very easily. How would I do that if we didn't have names to distinguish ourselves from one another?
Names,words,titles are just labels true,but they start us off on a path of understanding the individual,organization,interests,whatever.
The enlightened person knows there's more to a person then their title.
Deism........ tsik tsik A point without a point, an uncaused caused. a creator that somehow wasn't created but somehow created stuff that he doesn't intervene with therefor leaving no evidence of said creator but somehow people that never found the non evidence of said incontestable creator came to the conclusion that there is a creator but you can't find it. however you can use it's power in role playing along with a +10 lightning blot and healing spell
that was great. thx for posting. humanity must rise above religion. anyone who gives you a belief system is your enemy. philosophy = a blind man, on a dark night, looking for a black cat, that isn't there! ah he he
This is where faith comes into play. I trust,or have faith in an after life. It is my theory that if there's a Being,Energy,Force,Consciousness,"God" that can defy space,and time like we know God does then this Force must reside somewhere. Most people call this place heaven. For me I have a lot more then this that reassures my faith/theory on this,but yes life after death is a reality for me that I can't prove to anyone who thinks otherwise nor do I care to as there is no hell.
If you believe in a Eternal Life Force that we're a product of,and know too that the best way of understanding this Force (whatever it is) is to look towards the product that comes from this Force then you're a pure Deist,and your reality is Deism. We call this Force God to give "IT" the benefit of the doubt (respect) on all kinds of assumptions,or theories. One in particular is if this Force has intelligence,and a host of other thoughts on the matter. God is just a honorary title.
Deism is a religious and philosophical belief that a supreme being created the universe, and you believe it without a need for either faith or organized religion.
Deists generally reject the notion of divine interventions in human affairs - such as by miracles.
A deist would simply act like an atheist, and have faith in science, but they would differ on the cause and effect issue. Deist believe in the uncaused cause, while an atheist does not.
Pantheism,or Monotheism is ones faith on who,or what God is. Deism describes a path of understanding more so then a faith.
"Deists generally reject the notion of divine interventions in human affairs - such as by miracles."
Your taking the Christian definition on what Deism means,and they have tainted it to deter mankind from this reality. Go to my show Deism deception to see what I mean then investigate it for yourself.
You can use whatever definition you wish,but your source uses Noah Webster's (a devout Christian who had every reason to deter mankind from the reality of Deism) or the Catholic churches definition. Our founding fathers who were Deist,and most (not all) Deists of today believe in a active God,and one only needs to go to their sites,and ask them,or read Thomas Paines,and the likes writings to know this.
Pff.. you make deism seem far more mystical and complicated than it actually is. It's simply that all the doctrines, revelations etc etc is not necesarry.
Deists believe in the existence of God, on purely rational grounds, without any reliance on revealed religion or religious authority.
And you are to hung up in what the founding fathers said. Deism is a theological definition, and it's older than of the founding fathers. Their thoughts doesn't change what it actually is.
I'll repeat my self and say that the difference between an Atheist and a Deist is the cause and effect issue.
Many Deists reason that since everything that exists has had a creator, then the universe itself must have been created by God.
Thomas Paine concluded a speech shortly after the French Revolution with: "God is the power of first cause, nature is the law, and matter is the subject acted upon."
I qouted paine!
God does not intervene in cosmological affairs, but is the uncaused cause
Well, despite the various interpretations of Pantheism, all Pantheists believe that the Universe is God and God is the The Universe, meaning that God is not a supernatural agent outside of creation. Some might believe that Nature has an intelligence, but others would claim that nature was blind and or w/out intelligence.
Deism (God) implies a path of understanding,and each person takes it from there using reason as there guide. You tell me what Thomas Paine meant when he said.
" There is no man that believes in revealed religion stronger than I do but it is not the reveries of the Old and New Testament, nor of the Koran, that I dignify with that sacred title."
"Ever single source says this,even Thomas paine"
T Paine believed his own personal revelation found in Nature,and not the faiths of old.
It's simply, by logics they believe that the universe must have been created by a deity. One example is - the cause and effect issue. That a creation needs a creator, so by that they would say "by reason and logics of nature(everything has a creator) i believe in god"
That is what they mean by reason.
Another example is that everything can seem so fine tuned that by logics and reason they believe there must have been a creator.
Pantheism: (that God is identical to the Universe)
Deism: (that the creator-god who designed the Universe no longer exists in a status where he can be reached, and can instead be confirmed only by reason).
I believe you are a
PanDEIST.
Which is a mix of Deism and Pantheism.
In the school of theologics this is an actual definition.
My faith/theory like yours on who,or what God is really is unimportant. The point is that God is a reality,and Deism is the right path of understanding. I just could be all these things you talk about,but first,and foremost I'm a pure Deist,and my reality is Deism. If you'd like to talk more on the matter then go to my Deism Deception video,and post there as the video pertains to what we're talking about.
Oprah isn't a Deist, so I'm not sure what you are getting act. The god of Deism is not a personal God, doesn't answer prayers, and is not concerned with creation. Instead, the god of Deism is simply the "first cause", the creator who then slept. Deism as a philosophy/religion pretty much died out in the mid 1800s or so. It survives in the Freemasonry version of God, but the movement is dead. Deists pretty much turned to theism or atheism. So, I'm still nto sure what you are getting at.
This may be true in your mind,but it's not true for a lot of Deist's that I know today,or in our past history. One needs only read the writings of self professed Deist's to know that they believed that God was active in their lives. Thomas Paine especially believed that God was active in his life.
Deism describes a path of understanding more so then ones faith on the matter.
No. You are talking about Panendeism, not Deism. Deists believe in a God but they limit that God's power/influence to creation. The god of the Deists is not active in creation, does not answer prayers, and does not perform miracles. One of the things I didn't know is that many Deists do believe in an afterlife.
What I'm trying to get at is that most Deists either turned back to Theism or became Atheists. Watch, Atheism: A Rough History Of Disbelief. It talks about Deists becoming Atheists.
In the begining there was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God. I wonder why God didn't give us the whole book at one time instead of having it voted on by the council of Nicea, Trent, and then Nice? Maybe God was looking for man's approval, or and editor...
Just do unto others the way you would have them do unto you. That's why it's called the golden rule. Stop trying to figure out God. Jesus gave us one rule to live by. Start practicing that. These guys in suits, with all their money, are scam artists. God BLESS them.
every time I hear people like this talk I am reminded that it was the religious people that hated the same Jesus this man claims to be promoting....they hated Jesus because he freed people from the burden of religious people into a reality of knowing God.....don't believe it ? Read the story....the religious hated Jesus
What you said about getting "resistance" from your family and peers is very sad, but very true. I'm starting to experience some of that with my family...
2. Beware how laissez faire your conception of Deism qua "a path of understanding more then [sic] an individuals [sic] understanding." Since Deism abides by an empiricist &/or Kantian epistemology, Deism does normativize (within a narrow spectrum) its members' metaphysical-theological beliefs. Everything (that is already not supernatural action) does not go, for by definition, something cannot both be scientific & open to subjective interpretation.
Good stuff,and I thank you for the great insight. Your ability of investigating into truths shows in your writing skills,and vocabulary.
All this other stuff aside.
Could it be as easy as "ALL" of us being the product of a First Cause/Eternal Force that we give the honorary title of God no matter what God is? I think of God as active,and you don't let say,or I believe God is the Creation,and you believe that God created the Creation. We call "IT" god because we're just grateful to be?
That position is more aptly named religious naturalism or even panentheism, depending upon how ar you take it. (Read _The Universe Story_ by B. Swimme & T. Berry.)
A strict Deism should not use terms like active/inactive to describe the deity as such terms only have meaning within spacetime. The line between these philosophical positions may be thin, and it comes down largely to how willing are you to make positive assertions about the deity's nature (less: deism, more: reli. nat. or panenth.).
1. Paine would hate that you are making him a prophet. Your final statement implies such veneration.
2. Do you have a citation for your claim regarding Webster's dictionary? The modern website has an adequate definition of the movement.
3. Read the introduction by Moncure D. Conway of Paine's work published 2004 by Dover. He is the source material of my rebuttal. I would welcome academic attestation, though, of your claims.
"Of the Religion of Deism Compared with the Christian Religion" will give you an outline of what a Deist is.Thomas Paine called God "The Almighty lecturer". God had something to say to Mr. Paine.He was a prophet only in a sense that you,and I are prophets,and when everyone realize that they too are a prophet of God then they'll be no need to single any one individual with this honorary title. Google Noah Webster,and Deism see what you find.See how strong Mr. Webster's faith really was...
...,and how he would go to any lengths to insure that his word of God stayed in tacked.Ask yourself why the Catholic church gives all kinds of examples of Deists yet never mentions Tom Paine? Jefferson,Washington,Paine,Franklin all believed in an active God. Know that the Christian uses todays meaning of Deism which is their definition to prove that Washington was a Christian,and not a pure Deist that he really was. Deism describes a path of understanding more then an individuals understanding.
"How Noah Webster's Dictionary Defined American English, and His Own Views" This will show that I'm not the only one who thinks Noah Webster didn't like the true Deist.
There're more Deist today that believe in an active God then not,and both types are considered pure Deists.
1. God is real
2. The Creation (Life) is the best way of ascertain real truths on the matter.
God is a scientific study,and our individual faiths are only as important as the truths that they unfold.
3. Read David L. Holmes' scholarly books _The Faiths of the Founding Fathers_. It shows that we need more nuance in our labels of Christian or Deist for the U.S. founders. With the exception of perhaps Jefferson, the others could not fit neatly into either box, even the most Christian of them all--Washington.
1. Webster's bias is just that, Webster's bias. Yes, deistic beliefs are often ridiculed by other sides, as you will well agree. Theists dismiss it as an empty conception; atheists see Deism's deity as explanatorily unnecessary or logically unjustified. However, ridicule is far less than persecution.
Paine's "prosecution" [sic] was political, not theological. It was because he as not a French-born citizen and because in the political battles in the early 1790's, Paine was on the side that lost.
Your wrong I'm sorry to say. Mr. Paine was,and still is to this day being persecuted for not just the Age of Reason,but for all of his Theological work. There's a lot of it by the way. There's a reason why both the Catholic church,and Noah Webster gave the wrong definition on what a Deist is,or the meaning of Deism,and why your faith keeps the name of Thomas Paine out of their churches.
Just mentioning Mr.Paines name will send one down a path of truth,and most who are looking find it.
"The only truth about god is the bible." Rather than create an argument that ended itself in it's own statement. When you say you belief in a guy who said to quit listening to the organized rules or organized religion. He was talking about the Jewish church then and it is called Judeo Christian bible.
I am not a theist at all, i am a deist, and i simply do not believe it is a form of theism, i think it is atheism. Think about it - i reject the theistic god, thus atheist. Critics like Dawkins are antitheists, they openly reject the idea of God as a fantasy, which i have no problem with at all.
I simply believe that there may be a creature that made the universe the way it is, and it is totally alien, totally incommunicable and not our concern at all.
If you believe it is not of concern you're actually an apatheist. Atheists isn't just a rejection of theist (the term atheist actually predates theism) they in fact disbelieve in a god of any form. Both atheists and deists though are non-theists.
God in the Bible for all we know was a alien from another planet, who Zecharia Sitchin's books mention, (which I believe was more real.) And Jesus was a hybrid and yes the son of God the father (like in alien father.) The Annanaki's plan for religion sure stuck with human kind. But other than control of mankind what else is it's purpose ?
" other than control of mankind what else is it's purpose?"
For me religion is a spiritual work out plan that gets adjusted when new thoughts,or ideas come into play.
God is a fact of life the Creation is the proof,and we're here because of this Eternal Force that makes all things possible.
IMO at the very least a religion should recognize God,and give thanks religiously. Every moment,once a year,whenever the individual sees fit to give thanks.
Eckhart isn't being persecuted for his beliefs, he's being criticized for using sophistry to avoid the fact that his teachings are completely empty and encourage mankind to focus only on the present.
These preachers are trying desperately to retain their followers to keep on abusing them and getting rich from them. If they lose their followers they lose the easy money making..
Jesus had a completely different gospel that if you do a search talks precisely what Oprah believes as well as Deism believes. Do a search and look for all the gospel that the vatican didn't include in the New testament and you will find the truth that Jesus wanted to teach us. This is the time when the veil is lifted
Um, regardless of what Jesus thought, the Old Testament is not Deistic. Moreover, the guy claimed to be the son of God, which goes directly against the belief in a god that does not interact with the rest of existence beyond forming it.
Deism is just another way to quantify belief in God. There are many religions, most of them positve and life-affirming. Deism simply denies the need for an institution (i.e. the Church) for God to be real. Yes, many of our founders believed in God but not in church. Reason for yourselves. Don't be swayed by rhetoric and BS. This is the great lesson of Washington, Adams, Jefferson and Franklin. The philosophes of France echoed America: no tyranny! Freedom to achieve. Democracy!
As the previous poster mentioned, the works of Paine are well worth reading. Also read the Declaration of Independence ... "God of nature and Nature's God."
Important to note most of our founding father's were Deists, (Washington, Franklin, Paine, etc).
Studying the secular origins of America is an extraordinary adventure!
I've never heard one Christian call themselves a Deist,ever! Most if not all don't even know what a Deist is even though they are a Deist. If they called themselves Deist's they would not be Christian because a true Deist knows that God doesn't write books. They would look for insight in the bible,but they wouldn't call the bible the word of God because it would deter people from Gods true word that is found in the Creation.
My point is simple. Is it really worth the effort and time trying to get Oprah to say she is a Diest? Second, would a Diest really do that? I have met many who share with people when thay have made some contact to them, seeing that they allready have the qualities of a Diest.
That was my point. But either way I mean no harm friend.
Deism and Christianity are directly opposed. The first claims that if there is a god, it does not interact with the rest of the universe, whereas the second one claims that God had a son (which requires interaction).
True indeed my friend. I am well aware of that. But the fact remains, that Many actual Diest call themselves Christian because they do not want some religios nut telling them they are eveil. Second, many Diest also call themselves Athiest just because its a more popular term that doesnt require lots of explanation to get half of the understanding.
Yeah, but that's no more noteworthy than the Atheists that do the same thing.
Technically speaking, a Deist does not believe in the concept of a personal god and neither does an Atheist, so in that respect, they're more or less interchangeable.
Yeah but their is no one alive that can speak technically for Diesm! There is no ORDER in Diesm. I am not trying to enterchange any beliefsat all. I am simply pointed out that asking Oprah to claim Diesm is very close to some other religions you claim are not interchangable with Diesm.
It's the words and actions not so much what you call them.
Don't get me wrong, it doesn't really matter to me if Oprah claims to be Deist, a Christian, a Pastafarian, or a Scientologist (OK, the last one would bother me).
"Deist does not believe in the concept of a personal god"
This simply is not true. The word Deism,and Deist like all words have changed since the days of our key founding fathers day. The Paines Jeffersons,Washingtons,Franklins,and the like were all Deists who were Theists. They believed that God intervened in their lives. This can be proven by each of their writings.
A true Deist is just someone who believes in God,and looks towards the Creation for insight.
By "a personal god" I was referring to one that you pray to and receive insight through prayer from, like a Christian who genuinely believes that God speaks to him. Believing that God intervenes in your life seems to go against the idea of a god that, well, God is a non-interfering entity. Of course, definitions do change with time (and seem to do so more quickly in the English language).
Again a true Deist is someone who believes in God and looks towards the Creation for insight. Does God intervene does S/He/? not is up to the individual Deist.
For me contemplating God is praying to God,and while contemplating this Eternal Energy/Force I ask for things,and some times I get them although not quite the way I thought that I would. The bible of a true Deist is a living text for God,and if you're tuned into this sacred text you can't help feel that God "speaks to you.
And so how would you describe a person that believes that some manner of supernatural entity (God, or whatever), created existence as we know it but does not interfere in day to day life? Honestly, I think your last sentence is mostly sophistry and doesn't really say anything, could you clarify it for me?
If someone recognizes the fact that God is,and we being part of the Creation are undeniable proof of this Eternal, First Cause then they're a Deist. Just saying that "God" (another word for the Eternal) is makes you a Deist. Now you see once you say that God is it's human nature to try and understand what God is. The true path of knowing is called Deism where the Creation (God's works) is the correct way of understanding God. The people who know this are true Deists.
If you want to study the faith of our ancestors then you would go to a book however if you want to study God you must go to the things that S/He/? has made. This is Deism, again where the true word of God is the Creation that we behold.
A Deist is someone who knows that God is,and may study Judaism,Islam,Christianity as their path of understanding God,but a true Deist looks towards the Creation the very proof that proves God is real.
Earlier I was a ritualistic HINDU living in INDIA but after I read the biographies of THE AMERICAN AND THE FRENCH REVOLUTIONARIES such as Thomas Jefferson,Benjamin Franklin,Thomas Paine,John Adams,Voltaire & Jean-Jacques Rousseau,John Locke.I CAME TO KNOW ABOUT DEISM and now i follow my religion in a Deistic thought.i encounter the quotes and the knowledge of the Bhagwad Gita as sincere Deism rather being ritualistic and dogmatic.
"iwanttoknowgod When you say "I want to know God" where is your starting point?" I've been around many religions. I don't have a religion. I just wanted to tell you that Oprah is NOT a pure deist because she is into something else. Yes, she is searching like all of us. I don't have anything against it. I heard a radio show regarding her communication with spirits. That stuff is NOT what Deists do.
I get my definition of what a Deist and Deism is from Thomas Paine and he says that a Deist is anyone who believes in a God.
"Every person, of whatever religious denomination he may be, is a DEIST in the first article of his Creed."
A true Deist is someone who looks towards the Creation for insight on our Maker. I believe that Oprah like thousands,perhaps millions fit this description of what a Deist is and they just don't know it. YET!
I was raise a Catholic enjoy Christmas, I go to Christian Church to get to know Jesus. I learn about Muslim faith. I enjoy science and how the world began. I seen Athiesm view. but nothing is better than Diesm for you get to know and enjoy the best of all and just take out the bad side of all of them.
preston, im 17 and a diest, and i know what your talking about, all my friends are christians, but all you have to do is show them what diesm is about, just dont do it pompously. Dont worry bro, you can always just feel sorry for them because they cant expand their thinking for themselves.
My young Deist friend there's nothing crazy about truth. A true Deist is one who knows that God is,and knows that the only way of understanding the first cause of all things is found in the Creation which we're a living part of. We're the only religion that starts with truth all others start with a faith that comes from a book.
I so feel your pain,and then I think of Thomas Paine who stood up for the reality of Deism ( God ) right to the end.Your not alone in this reality and we grow every day.
Dieism is a good name. I have always been an ISOT "In Search of the Truth" I keep looking because I am tired of being told that if I don't believe what they believe I am doomed to hell.
iwanttoknowgod What would you call what I'm practicing? There are no witches in the real world and there never were. People with spacial evil powers who can summon the dead. The witches power is as real as the priest who turns water into blood or bread into body. Your sentence above exposes your belief in mythologies of old. If you truly want to know God may I suggest that you go too the things that S/He/? has made. Deism ( God ) will help you rid the things that are not and never were true.
We need to learn not to be angry, resentful, and be free from things that condemn us. We need to live full life in this world. In order to do that, rituals & magics are not going to help us.
When you say "I want to know God" where is your starting point? Do you have a religion,and why would you call what Oprah is doing " witch craft". Oprah seems to me too be doing what your screen name says "I want to know God". She's searching like all of us are doing,don't you think? She presents people who she believes hold some truth on our Maker. I don't see her saying that her way is absolute,and I certainly don't see her mixing potions as a witch would do.
This moron in the "I'm an important authority" suit arguing with Oprah is worried about the income that could be lost if this thing spreads. It COULD really be a liability as far as RELIGION INCORPORATED is concerned.
Notice how this jerk talks down to her, how he furrows his brow pretending to be thoughtful & all knowing. It's the patting on the head thing with a good old fashioned, "There there my child!" bullshit. He's on the fucking PAYROLL! He's worried about his CUT!!
Of course christians shouldn't ridule others but christians are human after all. And if there is a conflict between basic principals of christianity and paine, i can understand this is where discord might originate...
Christians believe there is one way to be saved - belief in Jesus
Paine (from your video) hopes for happiness in the next life...
does he believe in Jesus, One God and not the Trinity etc etc.?
Christians are quick to refute things they believe to be wishy washy,..
It's amazing that, in the 21st century, people are still willing to suspend logic and reason and surrender themselves to silly mythologies. The Bible is a compendium of fairy tales -- nothing more. It's cute when children profess a belief in the Easter Bunny or Santa Claus -- but it's disturbing when adults profess to believe in such things (e.g. Adam and Eve, Noah's Ark, etc...which are so obviously fictitious as to barely warrant comment). Someday, we'll evolve out of this superstitious BS!
They do it all the time! The best of them do it. I've heard Richard Dawkins,Christopher Hitchens and a lot of Atheist on YouTube say this. I'm happy that they keep his name alive but for me they sound like Christians when they say that the founding fathers were all Christians.
Anyone who reads Paines writings would realize that he loved God and contemplated ?/His greatness ever day of his life. All of his writings talk about God from the day he started writing.
I not sure what Dawkins has said about Paine, but Hitchens always points out that he's a deist. He usually uses it as an argument to Christians who claim the founders were Christians.
How do atheists use Thomas Paine for "propaganda"? Could you refer a link to me?
I've heard Brett Keane say it,and Richard Dawkins said it in his God delusion book, I'm almost certain that I read it there.
This video with Hichens "Word Association with Christopher Hitchens"from godlessvideo Calls Lincoln an Atheist just because Lincoln read Paine, leading one to think that Paine was an Atheist. Lincoln was a Deist and Hichens faultily calls him an Atheist.
I have heard Keane when he was one here called Paine a Deist. I think Dawkins was referring to the Christian false claims that Paine had a Christian conversion just before he died like they do to others. I have a video where Hitchens clearly admits Paine was a Deist. It is my lastest upload.
Your right! What I'm thinking Brett said was if Paine lived today with all our advances he would be an Atheist. My bad and same with Dawkins again I think what he said was that if Paine lived today he would be an Atheist. I'm really sorry for misquoting and I thank you for catching my faults claim.
Well it isn't a big deal. It is hard to keep track of everyone's opinions. I love Thomas Paine even though I am an atheist. Someone's religious profession isn't too important to me especially if they are Deist or agnostics.
Being an Atheist I assume that you don't believe in a god. This being the case how do you think life started? If its matter or substance that always was and always will be aren't these just other words for God. If you believe in a first case,or a starting point for life and know that the only way to find its truths is through the Creation/Life then you're a Deist by Thomas Paines definition? The word God to a Deist is as vast as the Creation itself.
Well I don't know how what we would call life originally started. Hopefully we will find out one day. A super powerful creator god seems too complex to have ever come into existence or to have some power to exist eternally.
overmind25 We do know that at some point we all have a beginning. In time we as humans started somewhere. God,again the word is (should be) as vast as the Creation itself also must have had a starting point,or is the starting point that has no beginning or end and where S/He came from we will never know probably.
When you say your an Atheist that doesn't believe in the god theory aren't you leaving out an important theory? Is it reasonable to do this? Why not believe in Deism as your reality?
I am a perfectly content agnostic. It isn't so much that I don't believe in God, I just don't believe in organized religion. When it comes to the Creation/Evolution "debate," I say;
Did Evolution Occur?
Definitely.
Does that mean that there's no God?
Not necessarily.
But does that mean that all 6.6 billion people on Earth must assimilate into the Oh-So-Perfect Culture of Christianity lest they face an infinite punishment for their finite wrongdoings? Give me a break.
Contrary to common belief, Deism is NOT a thing of the past. It's still very much alive and well. Even though it's not as a common belief system as it once was, Deism as well as pantheism is a main belief with many scientists, modern day philosophers, and other intellectuals.
I've grown up in a Muslim family, I loved that religion "foolishly" until I've grown up and understood what's it all about, blood and considering any other "none Muslim man" an infidel and eventually will burn down forever in hell!! I'm totally against this,
Thank you very much "DeistReality" for this awesome video.
Religions: ((Different methods to divide and separate human race into different fighting squads and leagues creating such an outrageous segregation in order to define God)).
This is what I think, people will still kill each other just define their own God.
I really don't see that Oparh or Eckhart Tolle have that much in common with Deism and or Paine. It seems Tolle is claiming that his text was revealed to him. That is not Desim but just another person claiming they received a revealed text from a higher being. That puts him in the same boat as the Mormon, John Smith.
What they say is basically only common sense and has been discussed and described in many psychological treatment programs. (Choice therapy or Reality Therapy) He offers little new information. (We live in the present and we must combat our ego.) Paine would have liked some of his stuff but probably would have rejected Tolle's claim that the his book was a revealed text. I know I reject it as I do any any claim to be a revealed text.
One thing that I see that is common with Eckhart,Oparh,and Paine is their belief in God (the Creator of all). They look towards the creation for insight on God. They don't believe in any book as a literal truth only their life experiences when understanding our Maker,"This is Deism."
If Eckhart has received any revelations from God he differs in that he doesn't expect the rest of us to believe his personal revelation. He tells it because it changed his own life in a very profound way. He may claim that all things come from God,(Consciousness) but most of his books are about things that he studied,and not things revealed. He gives us his own insight on life. I do agree with allot of what he says,still its Theist talk,its his own faith on the matter.
"Eckhart...differs in that he doesn't expect the rest of us to believe his personal revelation." REPLY_ But is that not what many say when meaning otherwise? They have to presuade others. Claiming it is a revealed text is a trigger to help pull the wool over your eyes. Look, I agree there is logic to his book (nothing new however) or it would never gain popularity.
His claim that its revealed is a red flag to me. It seems to be a way to add a false holy truth to his work or he is a nut that believes it. I think Paine would agree.
If you are looking for a way to popularize Paine this is not the way. He is after popularizing his own revealed text.
I'm looking for people who can bring Deism to the forefront of this society as fast as possibly. I believe that Eckhart,Oprah,Karen Armstrong,fit the description of a true Deist. You can't help what you are. They believe in the God of creation,and they know that the creation is the only way of understanding God. If these people can start calling themselves Deist's I believe that the reality of Deism will spread fast. There's a lot of us out there. We just don't know it yet. When we do look out!
Watch utube video "a new earth webcast" - (last of Chapter 1 part 1 and first of part 2). It's a watered down Mormon Joseph Smith kind of thing. He is way too smart to say directly but did hint at it. Granted he didn't use the word "revealed Text" but surely implied it and planted a psychological seed to grow.
Which is a good trick -- He lost me at that point.
I also believe that if Deism is better understood the world would be a better and much safer place but I don't believe Oprah and Eckhart are a fair representation of the Deism philosophy. In Deism less is more.
I don't see how you can view the videos and not see that his implication that the book is a revealed text. He is just saying in a way to plant a seed and let you draw that conclusion. A very smart and sneeky guy.
I know in my video I said that I would watch their show,but I never found the time, so this is my first time watching Eckhart on "TV",and I can see what your saying. What would you think of this kind of Deism as a religion,and not just a philosophy?
Because for me Deism can be a
1. Philosophy for some.
2. A theory for others.
3. The one true religion.
I do believe that God has the power to move people. I know this because S/He/? has done this for me. I think Tolle is sincere in his claims.
"What would you think of this kind of Deism as a religion, and not just a philosophy?" REPLY: I am not a good one to ask since after in proclamation that it being a revealed text I lost objectivity. I watched a few chapters study on video but have not read his book.What I saw was not really earth shattering. It is only expressed in a different way. I'm sorry but I really don't see it as the same as Desim.
"I do believe that God has the power to move people. I know this because S/He/? has done this for me. I think Tolle is sincere in his claims" REPLY -- As we have seen throughout history being "sincere" in a "claim" does not make it real. Believing with all your heart does not make it fact.
He just reminds me of some modern day guru claiming a revealed text. I have no idea if he is sincere in his claim but that is not my standard for determining his worth. It is reason and truth. It does not seem reasonable that it's a revealed.. I didn't leave other religions behind to find myself following some hip at the moment spiritual guru. Being a Deist does not leave me in search for a new and better truth. It it my answer.
TO me, he is like Rasputin and the Czar's wife. He has found the modern day royality to latch on to as a spiritual guru. These come and go at the rate of 100's per century. Deism is much more basic and actually rejects these guru surges by its ver nature. It seeks reason and truth. No revealed text. Everything has to be proven. Evidence is a holly word not faith.
Deist Cuffsmaster If you read the Power of Now, a New Earth. You will have a different opinion of Eckhart. He is a Deist like you and I. He believes in God,and he looks towards the creation for insight. He writes what he thinks on matters of God. Reason and truth come into play when you either believe what he says,or not. He most certainly isn't saying that if you don't believe you are wrong. He just states what he thinks is true about life,and our Maker. At times we all do that don't we?
"I'm looking for people who can bring Deism to the forefront of this society as fast as possibly" REPLY: I don't think Deism needs a Guru, nor do I think we need to have the mindset of evangelizing the world like Muslims and Christians. Leave them to that silly game of "my invisible friend is better than yours." That leads to exchanging bullet and bombs to prove your god is right.
I could care less if Eckhart,Oprah,Karen Armstrong call themselves deist or not. Frankly they add baggage to my basic belief that is unacceptable. Deism's beauty is it simplicity. You don't need a guru teaching 10 Monday night on-line classes to fully understand Desim nor do you need the quirks added by him to make it real. They would only adding useless baggage and in the end cause harm not good. Keep it simple. I am not worred about saving the world that is Christans and muslims.
Cuffsmaster:Thomas Paine died 200 years ago,still no one knows about Deism. The simplistic truth that he talked about our Maker no one has heard before.
Even Mr. Paine has been written off as a nobody.
I'm just pointing out fellow Deist's here. I'm not asking you to call them guru's,or spokesmen for this reality. I'm just saying that there are more of us then we know of. I have kids that need to grow in this world,I do care what happens in it.
Deism can help,and these people can make it known.
Cuffsmaster, Mr Tolle isn't claiming his books are a revealed text. In his mind he may believe that he is in tune with "Consciousness"(God),but he's not telling the rest of us that his writings are "revealed text",or a revelation from God. Anyone who believes somebody else's revelation from God has a great chance of being deceived. I know all the faiths do this,but its wrong in my opinion. They tell us that we're bad in Gods eyes if we don't agree with their prophets. Eckhart is not doing this.
It is true. God is. That is all we can say. Words fail entirely. "God is" would have to be an experience that replaces all theology, all thinking and talking ABOUT. Jesus gave us glory that we may be one, even as he and the Father are one: he in us, and God in him, that we may be made perfect in one.
It is about experience and realization of what we truly ARE. For that we are given an extraordinary tool, it's called A Course In Miracles.
We should not forget that Jesus said the world hates us. It hated him before us. Anyone who lives and teaches truly what Jesus taught is hated by this world, including those who profess to be his followers, but are blind to what he teaches. Fear makes blind. Fear generates hate. You can't change that. Fear has to be transformed, and that is an individual matter.
so what does deism do for you? it allows you to believe in a God... so what??? nothing happens after you believe that God made this earth but is not in the earth. if you believe in a God, then there is a God right? so you know for sure that God just left the earth? now use reasonable thinking to figure that question. because you are not God, you do not know if He is still here or not... so, he could be on the Earth right? judging people and sending them to hell. that's possible right?
for777Him 2 years ago
@for777Him
I see your point, but if he is still here and he is divine, while we are human,
"To err is human, to forgive is Divine"
should he not give us a steering hand or a warning or forgiveness? Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to be offense, but you seem to be reasonable enough to understand multiple sides of the same story.
Glitch5222 2 years ago
yeah He gave us the Bible. all the warnings and guidelines for a Christian are in there. yeah i can see that it can be hard to believe in something that you can't see but in matthew 16:4 Jesus says "A wicked and adulterous generation looks for a miraculous sign, but none will be given it except the sign of Jonah." Jesus then left them and went away.
i know if Jesus showed Himself many many people would believe in Him but that isn't going to happen until the second coming i believe.
for777Him 2 years ago
@DeistReality
I LOVE being a Deist as well. Thank God that I took a history course in college in which I had to read Thomas Paine's Common Sense and Age of Reason. Lately I've been watching many debates featuring Christopher Hitchens, and he seems to win all of them in which the topic is Atheism vs Theism. As far as Deism goes, as he says, "I can't prove there isn't a God." As a Deist I believe that each individual has their own way of experiencing the majesty and wonderment of God.
rockyfan21 2 years ago
Deist shouldn't worry about labels, that's what religions do.
wee4mebiatch 2 years ago 2
wee4mebiatch
Labels,names,words are all we have to communicate with one another.
As a pure Deist I don't worry about labels, I worry about other peoples understanding of them,and how these people effect our life,and the lives of our children.
DeistReality 2 years ago
Oh goodness how unfulfilling it must be to live in that state of ignorance for most of your life! Has anyone given this man an idea to at least figure out as to why he believes in these things? Does he even know why? The only proof he gives of these claims is the Christian Bible. Ok that's just confirming our take that revealed religion has no factual basis of proof right there. Those holy books are "hear say" only.
BlackBettySavior 2 years ago
Until a god is actually disproven you cant judge... god=/=christian god. Just because you believe something bigger started all this doesn't mean you are related to a revealed religion. Everyone is allowed to go on their own pursuit of answers to god, creator, reason, and the beginning. Or the lack there of... So who are you to say anything about living in a state of ignorance when your the one trying to disprove the disprovable? (based on evidence currently known)
Lev08e39M5 2 years ago
Whether deism, theism, agnosticism, etc., etc. it is just an exploration, and as you keep exploring, you will be disturbed by various winds and torrents of rain and thunder (adversary and supportive and pretensions opinions of others). With a full concentration which is possible only with prior self discipline, you can ignore or otherwise accept what convinces u and reject what doesnt. The exploration must be done thru actual life experiences, not just books and listening to lectures.
MarjorieBakre 2 years ago 2
Nice statement, well thought out and respectful. extremely unyoutube like. Everyone has a right to their own path and an open mind only helps in ones pursuit for answers.
Lev08e39M5 2 years ago
Wow, you have really deep eyes...
Glacies12 2 years ago
Is deism just the belief in a creator, along with the belief that God(Yahweh) cannot intervene into this universe?
ledsabbath165 2 years ago 2
This has been flagged as spam show
bla bla bla...
alaraa75 2 years ago
The truth is we are apes this is the planet of the apes who are we to describe God?
If any one can tell me what Dark Matter is let him describe God. Until that day shut all your
books that describe God and realise who you are . You are an ape with reason nothing more . The creator of concepts and dark matter is who?
The greatest concept ever created was love and history proves the least loving people are the Christians
I believe Love was created before the big bang..
petebax1 2 years ago
petebax1
It sounds to me like your a Deist,and your reality is Deism.
DeistReality 2 years ago
As a Deist you can call me sir and kiss my feet. Unless you are an atheist then you can kiss my butt ha ha
petebax1 2 years ago
why would you want to give it a name,
that wouldn't bring any good,
I think the idea of bringing a name to such a thing
would only be against the idea of deism,
most deist I know would be against a name given most of them conclusion There Ideas or there God don't fit into words,
such a thing would seperate deism
with whatever you or oprah religion decided to be called.
think
TheElefaunt 2 years ago
TheElefaunt
We give this Eternal Life Force/Energy/? a name to open the door of understanding. At this point in our evolutionary stage we use language to communicate with one another, so until we grow antennas words,"names",and titles are what we use to discuss this subject.
We as Deist don't tell you who,or what God is only that S/He/? is,and then show the"only" true path of understanding God (Universe,Consciousness,the Creation,Life Nature,?) which is Deism the latin word for God.
Think
DeistReality 2 years ago
Deism means The belief, based solely on reason, in a God who created the universe and then abandoned it, assuming no control over life, exerting no influence on natural phenomena, and giving no supernatural revelation.
your a theist because you believe in the supernatural
still has apart in your life,
You refer to "God" as a sole being thats my problem,
there is no maker there is consciousness system that is eternal and apart of us just as much as the next person or thing.
there is no sole God
TheElefaunt 2 years ago
Your describing Atheism.
I use Thomas Paine's definition of what,or who a Deist is. I use his instead of Noah Webster's like you seem to be using becouse Thomas Paine was a true Deist. Noah Webster was a devout Christian who had every reason to deter mankind from the reality of Deism.
Deism implies a path of understanding God rather then ones faith on the matter.
Your Pantheist view that I just may concur with is your personal faith (theory) on the matter,and no more.
Faith is not truth.
DeistReality 2 years ago
no that is deism,
anyone can call an apple an orange,
and again there is no sole God
one god deal,
it's idiotic to think so.
and stop trying to give it a name.
TheElefaunt 2 years ago
you have no idea what deism is,
but your taking a new age message
and mixing it with your own beliefs it seems.
there is no such thing as a free thinking christian,
when you choose to be a christian you give up free will.
buster27 2 years ago
Oprah Winfrey is our modern day god.
Yup I will pray to her, she gives free cars,
pays things forward, so oprah you are
my new god, I can see you, hear you and
your are very kind person, so why dont
we pray to her instead of a space daddy.
oprah rocks!!!!!!
golfdu222 2 years ago
Comrade2face
Names may be silly,but without them it would be very difficult. Your screen name here for example is a name/brand that by clicking it I find you,or your channel very easily. How would I do that if we didn't have names to distinguish ourselves from one another?
Names,words,titles are just labels true,but they start us off on a path of understanding the individual,organization,interests,whatever.
The enlightened person knows there's more to a person then their title.
DeistReality 2 years ago
isnt eckhart tolle and oprah, spiritual which also goes under the totally silly name of new age.
But a name is silly anyway, why brand your self like goods and products.
Comrade2face 2 years ago
Deism........ tsik tsik A point without a point, an uncaused caused. a creator that somehow wasn't created but somehow created stuff that he doesn't intervene with therefor leaving no evidence of said creator but somehow people that never found the non evidence of said incontestable creator came to the conclusion that there is a creator but you can't find it. however you can use it's power in role playing along with a +10 lightning blot and healing spell
caseygtr 2 years ago
that was great. thx for posting. humanity must rise above religion. anyone who gives you a belief system is your enemy. philosophy = a blind man, on a dark night, looking for a black cat, that isn't there! ah he he
upaste 2 years ago
Do you (deistreality) believe in a afterlife of any sort?
hoganrules999 2 years ago
hoganrules999
This is where faith comes into play. I trust,or have faith in an after life. It is my theory that if there's a Being,Energy,Force,Consciousness,"God" that can defy space,and time like we know God does then this Force must reside somewhere. Most people call this place heaven. For me I have a lot more then this that reassures my faith/theory on this,but yes life after death is a reality for me that I can't prove to anyone who thinks otherwise nor do I care to as there is no hell.
DeistReality 2 years ago
I am an atheist, i respect deists.
You are freekthinkers.
You have just come to a different conclusion on the cause and effect issue.
Serethen 2 years ago
Serethen
If you believe in a Eternal Life Force that we're a product of,and know too that the best way of understanding this Force (whatever it is) is to look towards the product that comes from this Force then you're a pure Deist,and your reality is Deism. We call this Force God to give "IT" the benefit of the doubt (respect) on all kinds of assumptions,or theories. One in particular is if this Force has intelligence,and a host of other thoughts on the matter. God is just a honorary title.
DeistReality 2 years ago
You're comment leans more toward Pantheism
IMO.
Deism is a religious and philosophical belief that a supreme being created the universe, and you believe it without a need for either faith or organized religion.
Deists generally reject the notion of divine interventions in human affairs - such as by miracles.
A deist would simply act like an atheist, and have faith in science, but they would differ on the cause and effect issue. Deist believe in the uncaused cause, while an atheist does not.
Serethen 2 years ago
Serethen
"You're comment leans more toward Pantheism
IMO."
Pantheism,or Monotheism is ones faith on who,or what God is. Deism describes a path of understanding more so then a faith.
"Deists generally reject the notion of divine interventions in human affairs - such as by miracles."
Your taking the Christian definition on what Deism means,and they have tainted it to deter mankind from this reality. Go to my show Deism deception to see what I mean then investigate it for yourself.
DeistReality 2 years ago
no im taking wikipedias definition of Deism.
I'll post some other sources aswell
Serethen 2 years ago
Serethen
You can use whatever definition you wish,but your source uses Noah Webster's (a devout Christian who had every reason to deter mankind from the reality of Deism) or the Catholic churches definition. Our founding fathers who were Deist,and most (not all) Deists of today believe in a active God,and one only needs to go to their sites,and ask them,or read Thomas Paines,and the likes writings to know this.
DeistReality 2 years ago
Pff.. you make deism seem far more mystical and complicated than it actually is. It's simply that all the doctrines, revelations etc etc is not necesarry.
Deists believe in the existence of God, on purely rational grounds, without any reliance on revealed religion or religious authority.
And you are to hung up in what the founding fathers said. Deism is a theological definition, and it's older than of the founding fathers. Their thoughts doesn't change what it actually is.
Serethen 2 years ago
I'll repeat my self and say that the difference between an Atheist and a Deist is the cause and effect issue.
Many Deists reason that since everything that exists has had a creator, then the universe itself must have been created by God.
Thomas Paine concluded a speech shortly after the French Revolution with: "God is the power of first cause, nature is the law, and matter is the subject acted upon."
I qouted paine!
God does not intervene in cosmological affairs, but is the uncaused cause
Serethen 2 years ago
Deist by definition is - no active god.
An active god which is a part of heaven and earth but does not intervene in observable and humanly affairs is called PANTHEISM.
Split a piece of wood and you will find God. Look beneath a stone and hes there.
The Kingdom of God is inside you, and all around you, not in mansions of wood and stone.
Pantheism.
Serethen 2 years ago
As Dawkins stated, Pantheism is just sexed up Atheism. Pantheists believe in nature, with God as being nothing but a symbol for nature.
BoyintheMachine 2 years ago 2
You are referring to(dawkins aswell)
"Naturalistic pantheism".
It's actually a dispute between scholars. whether it is no more than "atheism for nature lovers" or not.
if so it contradicts the etymology of the word.
"Pantheism" views that everything is part of an Immanent God.
All these definitions are pretty confusing,
for instance you have "Classical Pantheism" which is pretty much = Deism and Pandeism
Serethen 2 years ago
Well, despite the various interpretations of Pantheism, all Pantheists believe that the Universe is God and God is the The Universe, meaning that God is not a supernatural agent outside of creation. Some might believe that Nature has an intelligence, but others would claim that nature was blind and or w/out intelligence.
BoyintheMachine 2 years ago
A great difference, NP should have a different name.
A devotee should be called an "Naturalistic Atheist"
Equal to a "Nihilistic Atheist"
- Naturalistic Pantheism: God is synonymous to the Universe/Nature
(non-traditional, impersonal sense)
- Pantheism: universe is a god. (the view that everything is part of an all-encompassing immanent God)
The Universe as we know it, is God-LIKE
or
The Universe, nature and the sum total of all that was, is and shall be is God(a lot of open questions)
Serethen 2 years ago
I guess Naturalistic pantheism is not on the same scale as Atheism. regardless of the etymology - theism.
I think it belongs on the scale together with Existentialism and Nihilism
You can be an atheist,
And you can believe that the meaning of life you make yourself or the belief in human.
You can find the greater meaning in nature, probably refering to physical laws etc. the amazing ongoing rules of the unvierse.
And you can give it a thought and realize that there is no meaning at all:).
Serethen 2 years ago
Deism is simply the thought that the universe is like a mechanical watch. It works by itself.
God is the creater of this, and does not intervene because the universe works by itself.
Ever single source says this,even Thomas paine.
If you want to make a new belief system, call it something else for the sake of theological definitions
Serethen 2 years ago
Serethen
Deism (God) implies a path of understanding,and each person takes it from there using reason as there guide. You tell me what Thomas Paine meant when he said.
" There is no man that believes in revealed religion stronger than I do but it is not the reveries of the Old and New Testament, nor of the Koran, that I dignify with that sacred title."
"Ever single source says this,even Thomas paine"
T Paine believed his own personal revelation found in Nature,and not the faiths of old.
DeistReality 2 years ago
Yes by REASON - SCIENCE - LOGICS
this is not mystical.
It's simply, by logics they believe that the universe must have been created by a deity. One example is - the cause and effect issue. That a creation needs a creator, so by that they would say "by reason and logics of nature(everything has a creator) i believe in god"
That is what they mean by reason.
Another example is that everything can seem so fine tuned that by logics and reason they believe there must have been a creator.
Serethen 2 years ago
The qoute simply means, that i do not believe in God because man made books tell me to do so.
I believe in God because nature implies a need of a creator, because it's so fine tuned and nicely complicated,
Though the ideas were established before you knew of cosmological evolution and the age of the universe, and also biological evolution.
So everything would seem more "fine tuned" than it seems for scientists today.
Serethen 2 years ago
Pantheism: (that God is identical to the Universe)
Deism: (that the creator-god who designed the Universe no longer exists in a status where he can be reached, and can instead be confirmed only by reason).
I believe you are a
PanDEIST.
Which is a mix of Deism and Pantheism.
In the school of theologics this is an actual definition.
Read up on it..
You might also be a Panentheist
Read up on that aswell.
Serethen 2 years ago
Serethen
My faith/theory like yours on who,or what God is really is unimportant. The point is that God is a reality,and Deism is the right path of understanding. I just could be all these things you talk about,but first,and foremost I'm a pure Deist,and my reality is Deism. If you'd like to talk more on the matter then go to my Deism Deception video,and post there as the video pertains to what we're talking about.
DeistReality 2 years ago
Oprah isn't a Deist, so I'm not sure what you are getting act. The god of Deism is not a personal God, doesn't answer prayers, and is not concerned with creation. Instead, the god of Deism is simply the "first cause", the creator who then slept. Deism as a philosophy/religion pretty much died out in the mid 1800s or so. It survives in the Freemasonry version of God, but the movement is dead. Deists pretty much turned to theism or atheism. So, I'm still nto sure what you are getting at.
BoyintheMachine 2 years ago
BoyintheMachine
This may be true in your mind,but it's not true for a lot of Deist's that I know today,or in our past history. One needs only read the writings of self professed Deist's to know that they believed that God was active in their lives. Thomas Paine especially believed that God was active in his life.
Deism describes a path of understanding more so then ones faith on the matter.
DeistReality 2 years ago
No. You are talking about Panendeism, not Deism. Deists believe in a God but they limit that God's power/influence to creation. The god of the Deists is not active in creation, does not answer prayers, and does not perform miracles. One of the things I didn't know is that many Deists do believe in an afterlife.
What I'm trying to get at is that most Deists either turned back to Theism or became Atheists. Watch, Atheism: A Rough History Of Disbelief. It talks about Deists becoming Atheists.
BoyintheMachine 2 years ago
In the begining there was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God. I wonder why God didn't give us the whole book at one time instead of having it voted on by the council of Nicea, Trent, and then Nice? Maybe God was looking for man's approval, or and editor...
fmrreligiousnut 2 years ago
Of course there will be resentment and refutiation... You are taking away from those who practice preistcraft, their power and money...
fmrreligiousnut 2 years ago
If you put a label on it, Deism is a religion.
boeatsbrains 2 years ago
Deism is not a religion. Good video though, I totally agree with you.
Owly95 2 years ago 2
Deism(God) may not be your religion,but its mine:)
DeistReality 2 years ago
It's a belief.
Owly95 2 years ago
Right on brother, i hope opra gets this and stays on course!
ShenGuro 2 years ago
Right on!
mnutt12 2 years ago
Just do unto others the way you would have them do unto you. That's why it's called the golden rule. Stop trying to figure out God. Jesus gave us one rule to live by. Start practicing that. These guys in suits, with all their money, are scam artists. God BLESS them.
nogov4me 2 years ago
Good video brother. You had some thought provoking material there that has given me encouragement. Thanks for posting.
bandaidmafia 2 years ago
every time I hear people like this talk I am reminded that it was the religious people that hated the same Jesus this man claims to be promoting....they hated Jesus because he freed people from the burden of religious people into a reality of knowing God.....don't believe it ? Read the story....the religious hated Jesus
G0dspelronin 2 years ago
What you said about getting "resistance" from your family and peers is very sad, but very true. I'm starting to experience some of that with my family...
It's quite sad really...
DarkHeartedMusician 2 years ago
2. Beware how laissez faire your conception of Deism qua "a path of understanding more then [sic] an individuals [sic] understanding." Since Deism abides by an empiricist &/or Kantian epistemology, Deism does normativize (within a narrow spectrum) its members' metaphysical-theological beliefs. Everything (that is already not supernatural action) does not go, for by definition, something cannot both be scientific & open to subjective interpretation.
CSHallo 2 years ago
CSHallo
Good stuff,and I thank you for the great insight. Your ability of investigating into truths shows in your writing skills,and vocabulary.
All this other stuff aside.
Could it be as easy as "ALL" of us being the product of a First Cause/Eternal Force that we give the honorary title of God no matter what God is? I think of God as active,and you don't let say,or I believe God is the Creation,and you believe that God created the Creation. We call "IT" god because we're just grateful to be?
DeistReality 2 years ago
That position is more aptly named religious naturalism or even panentheism, depending upon how ar you take it. (Read _The Universe Story_ by B. Swimme & T. Berry.)
A strict Deism should not use terms like active/inactive to describe the deity as such terms only have meaning within spacetime. The line between these philosophical positions may be thin, and it comes down largely to how willing are you to make positive assertions about the deity's nature (less: deism, more: reli. nat. or panenth.).
CSHallo 2 years ago
1. Paine would hate that you are making him a prophet. Your final statement implies such veneration.
2. Do you have a citation for your claim regarding Webster's dictionary? The modern website has an adequate definition of the movement.
3. Read the introduction by Moncure D. Conway of Paine's work published 2004 by Dover. He is the source material of my rebuttal. I would welcome academic attestation, though, of your claims.
CSHallo 2 years ago
CSHallo
"Of the Religion of Deism Compared with the Christian Religion" will give you an outline of what a Deist is.Thomas Paine called God "The Almighty lecturer". God had something to say to Mr. Paine.He was a prophet only in a sense that you,and I are prophets,and when everyone realize that they too are a prophet of God then they'll be no need to single any one individual with this honorary title. Google Noah Webster,and Deism see what you find.See how strong Mr. Webster's faith really was...
DeistReality 2 years ago
...,and how he would go to any lengths to insure that his word of God stayed in tacked.Ask yourself why the Catholic church gives all kinds of examples of Deists yet never mentions Tom Paine? Jefferson,Washington,Paine,Franklin all believed in an active God. Know that the Christian uses todays meaning of Deism which is their definition to prove that Washington was a Christian,and not a pure Deist that he really was. Deism describes a path of understanding more then an individuals understanding.
DeistReality 2 years ago
CSHallo
"How Noah Webster's Dictionary Defined American English, and His Own Views" This will show that I'm not the only one who thinks Noah Webster didn't like the true Deist.
There're more Deist today that believe in an active God then not,and both types are considered pure Deists.
1. God is real
2. The Creation (Life) is the best way of ascertain real truths on the matter.
God is a scientific study,and our individual faiths are only as important as the truths that they unfold.
DeistReality 2 years ago
3. Read David L. Holmes' scholarly books _The Faiths of the Founding Fathers_. It shows that we need more nuance in our labels of Christian or Deist for the U.S. founders. With the exception of perhaps Jefferson, the others could not fit neatly into either box, even the most Christian of them all--Washington.
CSHallo 2 years ago
1. Webster's bias is just that, Webster's bias. Yes, deistic beliefs are often ridiculed by other sides, as you will well agree. Theists dismiss it as an empty conception; atheists see Deism's deity as explanatorily unnecessary or logically unjustified. However, ridicule is far less than persecution.
CSHallo 2 years ago
Paine's "prosecution" [sic] was political, not theological. It was because he as not a French-born citizen and because in the political battles in the early 1790's, Paine was on the side that lost.
CSHallo 2 years ago
CSHallo
Your wrong I'm sorry to say. Mr. Paine was,and still is to this day being persecuted for not just the Age of Reason,but for all of his Theological work. There's a lot of it by the way. There's a reason why both the Catholic church,and Noah Webster gave the wrong definition on what a Deist is,or the meaning of Deism,and why your faith keeps the name of Thomas Paine out of their churches.
Just mentioning Mr.Paines name will send one down a path of truth,and most who are looking find it.
DeistReality 2 years ago
"The only truth about god is the bible." Rather than create an argument that ended itself in it's own statement. When you say you belief in a guy who said to quit listening to the organized rules or organized religion. He was talking about the Jewish church then and it is called Judeo Christian bible.
walkerazcarpenter 2 years ago
I am not a theist at all, i am a deist, and i simply do not believe it is a form of theism, i think it is atheism. Think about it - i reject the theistic god, thus atheist. Critics like Dawkins are antitheists, they openly reject the idea of God as a fantasy, which i have no problem with at all.
I simply believe that there may be a creature that made the universe the way it is, and it is totally alien, totally incommunicable and not our concern at all.
mustrapefoley 2 years ago
If you believe it is not of concern you're actually an apatheist. Atheists isn't just a rejection of theist (the term atheist actually predates theism) they in fact disbelieve in a god of any form. Both atheists and deists though are non-theists.
SidedPanic 2 years ago
ah right. that clears some things up for now.
bah. religion. shit it.
mustrapefoley 2 years ago
God in the Bible for all we know was a alien from another planet, who Zecharia Sitchin's books mention, (which I believe was more real.) And Jesus was a hybrid and yes the son of God the father (like in alien father.) The Annanaki's plan for religion sure stuck with human kind. But other than control of mankind what else is it's purpose ?
allexx123 3 years ago
allexx123
" other than control of mankind what else is it's purpose?"
For me religion is a spiritual work out plan that gets adjusted when new thoughts,or ideas come into play.
God is a fact of life the Creation is the proof,and we're here because of this Eternal Force that makes all things possible.
IMO at the very least a religion should recognize God,and give thanks religiously. Every moment,once a year,whenever the individual sees fit to give thanks.
DeistReality 3 years ago
Eckhart isn't being persecuted for his beliefs, he's being criticized for using sophistry to avoid the fact that his teachings are completely empty and encourage mankind to focus only on the present.
Beskargam 3 years ago
bill keller is such a fraud, making it look like oprah was actually talking to him. fraud.
observant09 3 years ago
These preachers are trying desperately to retain their followers to keep on abusing them and getting rich from them. If they lose their followers they lose the easy money making..
Jesus had a completely different gospel that if you do a search talks precisely what Oprah believes as well as Deism believes. Do a search and look for all the gospel that the vatican didn't include in the New testament and you will find the truth that Jesus wanted to teach us. This is the time when the veil is lifted
pwpg0516 3 years ago
Um, regardless of what Jesus thought, the Old Testament is not Deistic. Moreover, the guy claimed to be the son of God, which goes directly against the belief in a god that does not interact with the rest of existence beyond forming it.
Beskargam 3 years ago
Deism is just another way to quantify belief in God. There are many religions, most of them positve and life-affirming. Deism simply denies the need for an institution (i.e. the Church) for God to be real. Yes, many of our founders believed in God but not in church. Reason for yourselves. Don't be swayed by rhetoric and BS. This is the great lesson of Washington, Adams, Jefferson and Franklin. The philosophes of France echoed America: no tyranny! Freedom to achieve. Democracy!
nothingsfree 3 years ago
True, there are many different beliefs amongst deists. But also deists tend to reject many of the traditional roles of god as an interferer.
They also don't go for those characteristics which religions usually assign god like omniscience and omnipotence.
URAGR8M8 3 years ago
well, if it was a real echo it would have been "republic-ism(if that's a word)"
pyr666 2 years ago
You are correct. Sometimes the political spectrum fools me. The founding fathers indeed gave us a republic.
nothingsfree 2 years ago
I'll suggest another book on Paine, excellent historical biography.
"To Spit Against the Wind," Benjamin Levin
Isabella8466 3 years ago
As the previous poster mentioned, the works of Paine are well worth reading. Also read the Declaration of Independence ... "God of nature and Nature's God."
Important to note most of our founding father's were Deists, (Washington, Franklin, Paine, etc).
Studying the secular origins of America is an extraordinary adventure!
Isabella8466 3 years ago
Oprah likes to read books. Has she read "the age of reason"?
klaron0 3 years ago
Well first of all, all Christians do not read the same bible.
And many Deist do infact call themselves Christians.
I thought a so called Deist would know that!
But on the other hand, i seems to me like you need some help from Oprah and just do not know how to ask!
Please do not bring harm to Diesm or Deist!
It's not there way to even speak in such a manner.
xemola 3 years ago
xemola
I've never heard one Christian call themselves a Deist,ever! Most if not all don't even know what a Deist is even though they are a Deist. If they called themselves Deist's they would not be Christian because a true Deist knows that God doesn't write books. They would look for insight in the bible,but they wouldn't call the bible the word of God because it would deter people from Gods true word that is found in the Creation.
I ask you, what harm have I brought to Deism?
DeistReality 3 years ago
My point is simple. Is it really worth the effort and time trying to get Oprah to say she is a Diest? Second, would a Diest really do that? I have met many who share with people when thay have made some contact to them, seeing that they allready have the qualities of a Diest.
That was my point. But either way I mean no harm friend.
xemola 3 years ago
Deism and Christianity are directly opposed. The first claims that if there is a god, it does not interact with the rest of the universe, whereas the second one claims that God had a son (which requires interaction).
Beskargam 3 years ago
True indeed my friend. I am well aware of that. But the fact remains, that Many actual Diest call themselves Christian because they do not want some religios nut telling them they are eveil. Second, many Diest also call themselves Athiest just because its a more popular term that doesnt require lots of explanation to get half of the understanding.
xemola 3 years ago
Yeah, but that's no more noteworthy than the Atheists that do the same thing.
Technically speaking, a Deist does not believe in the concept of a personal god and neither does an Atheist, so in that respect, they're more or less interchangeable.
Beskargam 3 years ago
Yeah but their is no one alive that can speak technically for Diesm! There is no ORDER in Diesm. I am not trying to enterchange any beliefsat all. I am simply pointed out that asking Oprah to claim Diesm is very close to some other religions you claim are not interchangable with Diesm.
It's the words and actions not so much what you call them.
xemola 3 years ago
Don't get me wrong, it doesn't really matter to me if Oprah claims to be Deist, a Christian, a Pastafarian, or a Scientologist (OK, the last one would bother me).
Beskargam 3 years ago
Word!
xemola 3 years ago
Beskargam
"Deist does not believe in the concept of a personal god"
This simply is not true. The word Deism,and Deist like all words have changed since the days of our key founding fathers day. The Paines Jeffersons,Washingtons,Franklins,and the like were all Deists who were Theists. They believed that God intervened in their lives. This can be proven by each of their writings.
A true Deist is just someone who believes in God,and looks towards the Creation for insight.
DeistReality 3 years ago
By "a personal god" I was referring to one that you pray to and receive insight through prayer from, like a Christian who genuinely believes that God speaks to him. Believing that God intervenes in your life seems to go against the idea of a god that, well, God is a non-interfering entity. Of course, definitions do change with time (and seem to do so more quickly in the English language).
Beskargam 3 years ago
Beskargam
Again a true Deist is someone who believes in God and looks towards the Creation for insight. Does God intervene does S/He/? not is up to the individual Deist.
For me contemplating God is praying to God,and while contemplating this Eternal Energy/Force I ask for things,and some times I get them although not quite the way I thought that I would. The bible of a true Deist is a living text for God,and if you're tuned into this sacred text you can't help feel that God "speaks to you.
DeistReality 3 years ago
And so how would you describe a person that believes that some manner of supernatural entity (God, or whatever), created existence as we know it but does not interfere in day to day life? Honestly, I think your last sentence is mostly sophistry and doesn't really say anything, could you clarify it for me?
Beskargam 3 years ago
Beskargam
If someone recognizes the fact that God is,and we being part of the Creation are undeniable proof of this Eternal, First Cause then they're a Deist. Just saying that "God" (another word for the Eternal) is makes you a Deist. Now you see once you say that God is it's human nature to try and understand what God is. The true path of knowing is called Deism where the Creation (God's works) is the correct way of understanding God. The people who know this are true Deists.
DeistReality 3 years ago
Beskargam
If you want to study the faith of our ancestors then you would go to a book however if you want to study God you must go to the things that S/He/? has made. This is Deism, again where the true word of God is the Creation that we behold.
A Deist is someone who knows that God is,and may study Judaism,Islam,Christianity as their path of understanding God,but a true Deist looks towards the Creation the very proof that proves God is real.
Books prove man.
The Creation proves God.
DeistReality 3 years ago
Earlier I was a ritualistic HINDU living in INDIA but after I read the biographies of THE AMERICAN AND THE FRENCH REVOLUTIONARIES such as Thomas Jefferson,Benjamin Franklin,Thomas Paine,John Adams,Voltaire & Jean-Jacques Rousseau,John Locke.I CAME TO KNOW ABOUT DEISM and now i follow my religion in a Deistic thought.i encounter the quotes and the knowledge of the Bhagwad Gita as sincere Deism rather being ritualistic and dogmatic.
emersonvedanta 3 years ago
Nothing against your belief. I just saw the title, "Deism under fire again!" and you were talking about Oprah as a deist...
iwanttoknowgod 3 years ago
And I also know that our prayers and witch crafts work when they are done right.
iwanttoknowgod 3 years ago
"iwanttoknowgod When you say "I want to know God" where is your starting point?" I've been around many religions. I don't have a religion. I just wanted to tell you that Oprah is NOT a pure deist because she is into something else. Yes, she is searching like all of us. I don't have anything against it. I heard a radio show regarding her communication with spirits. That stuff is NOT what Deists do.
iwanttoknowgod 3 years ago
I get my definition of what a Deist and Deism is from Thomas Paine and he says that a Deist is anyone who believes in a God.
"Every person, of whatever religious denomination he may be, is a DEIST in the first article of his Creed."
A true Deist is someone who looks towards the Creation for insight on our Maker. I believe that Oprah like thousands,perhaps millions fit this description of what a Deist is and they just don't know it. YET!
DeistReality 3 years ago
Fair enough. :)
iwanttoknowgod 3 years ago
My guesse is that she is most likely well aware of Diesm. That does not make Diesm or Oprah any more incorrect.
For me, it's more important to see the Diesm in a person, than to proclaim a formal statement of being!
But Either way, I hope you didnt take offense. Some times it is hard to understand nother with not much space to write.
xemola 3 years ago
I was raise a Catholic enjoy Christmas, I go to Christian Church to get to know Jesus. I learn about Muslim faith. I enjoy science and how the world began. I seen Athiesm view. but nothing is better than Diesm for you get to know and enjoy the best of all and just take out the bad side of all of them.
Pogi724 3 years ago
preston, im 17 and a diest, and i know what your talking about, all my friends are christians, but all you have to do is show them what diesm is about, just dont do it pompously. Dont worry bro, you can always just feel sorry for them because they cant expand their thinking for themselves.
mikessunglasses 3 years ago
true thanks
preston9219 3 years ago
im a young follower of Deism im 15 and all my friends christian or not they just say im crazy i need some Deism support :(
preston9219 3 years ago
My young Deist friend there's nothing crazy about truth. A true Deist is one who knows that God is,and knows that the only way of understanding the first cause of all things is found in the Creation which we're a living part of. We're the only religion that starts with truth all others start with a faith that comes from a book.
I so feel your pain,and then I think of Thomas Paine who stood up for the reality of Deism ( God ) right to the end.Your not alone in this reality and we grow every day.
DeistReality 3 years ago
yay i will
thanks
preston9219 3 years ago
Dieism is a good name. I have always been an ISOT "In Search of the Truth" I keep looking because I am tired of being told that if I don't believe what they believe I am doomed to hell.
maggiesport 3 years ago
In my humble opinion, Oprah is practicing a common witch craft in a different name.
iwanttoknowgod 3 years ago
iwanttoknowgod What would you call what I'm practicing? There are no witches in the real world and there never were. People with spacial evil powers who can summon the dead. The witches power is as real as the priest who turns water into blood or bread into body. Your sentence above exposes your belief in mythologies of old. If you truly want to know God may I suggest that you go too the things that S/He/? has made. Deism ( God ) will help you rid the things that are not and never were true.
DeistReality 3 years ago
We need to learn not to be angry, resentful, and be free from things that condemn us. We need to live full life in this world. In order to do that, rituals & magics are not going to help us.
iwanttoknowgod 3 years ago
iwanttoknowgod
When you say "I want to know God" where is your starting point? Do you have a religion,and why would you call what Oprah is doing " witch craft". Oprah seems to me too be doing what your screen name says "I want to know God". She's searching like all of us are doing,don't you think? She presents people who she believes hold some truth on our Maker. I don't see her saying that her way is absolute,and I certainly don't see her mixing potions as a witch would do.
DeistReality 3 years ago
This moron in the "I'm an important authority" suit arguing with Oprah is worried about the income that could be lost if this thing spreads. It COULD really be a liability as far as RELIGION INCORPORATED is concerned.
Notice how this jerk talks down to her, how he furrows his brow pretending to be thoughtful & all knowing. It's the patting on the head thing with a good old fashioned, "There there my child!" bullshit. He's on the fucking PAYROLL! He's worried about his CUT!!
t4705mb6 3 years ago
Of course christians shouldn't ridule others but christians are human after all. And if there is a conflict between basic principals of christianity and paine, i can understand this is where discord might originate...
Christians believe there is one way to be saved - belief in Jesus
Paine (from your video) hopes for happiness in the next life...
does he believe in Jesus, One God and not the Trinity etc etc.?
Christians are quick to refute things they believe to be wishy washy,..
StephenKuma 3 years ago
Fog of faith LOL!.
Gringoman911 3 years ago
It's amazing that, in the 21st century, people are still willing to suspend logic and reason and surrender themselves to silly mythologies. The Bible is a compendium of fairy tales -- nothing more. It's cute when children profess a belief in the Easter Bunny or Santa Claus -- but it's disturbing when adults profess to believe in such things (e.g. Adam and Eve, Noah's Ark, etc...which are so obviously fictitious as to barely warrant comment). Someday, we'll evolve out of this superstitious BS!
pascalrascal0503 3 years ago
to mention the only christian i know of that likes thomas paine is ron paul.Hes only one i heard theres probably some more.
JJTecumseh87 3 years ago
I hate how atheists use Thomas Paine for their propaganda
JJTecumseh87 3 years ago
JJTecumseh87
Great comment!
They do it all the time! The best of them do it. I've heard Richard Dawkins,Christopher Hitchens and a lot of Atheist on YouTube say this. I'm happy that they keep his name alive but for me they sound like Christians when they say that the founding fathers were all Christians.
Anyone who reads Paines writings would realize that he loved God and contemplated ?/His greatness ever day of his life. All of his writings talk about God from the day he started writing.
DeistReality 3 years ago
I not sure what Dawkins has said about Paine, but Hitchens always points out that he's a deist. He usually uses it as an argument to Christians who claim the founders were Christians.
How do atheists use Thomas Paine for "propaganda"? Could you refer a link to me?
emkawaha 3 years ago
??????????
overmind25 3 years ago
I've heard Brett Keane say it,and Richard Dawkins said it in his God delusion book, I'm almost certain that I read it there.
This video with Hichens "Word Association with Christopher Hitchens"from godlessvideo Calls Lincoln an Atheist just because Lincoln read Paine, leading one to think that Paine was an Atheist. Lincoln was a Deist and Hichens faultily calls him an Atheist.
DeistReality 3 years ago
I have heard Keane when he was one here called Paine a Deist. I think Dawkins was referring to the Christian false claims that Paine had a Christian conversion just before he died like they do to others. I have a video where Hitchens clearly admits Paine was a Deist. It is my lastest upload.
overmind25 3 years ago
overmind25
Your right! What I'm thinking Brett said was if Paine lived today with all our advances he would be an Atheist. My bad and same with Dawkins again I think what he said was that if Paine lived today he would be an Atheist. I'm really sorry for misquoting and I thank you for catching my faults claim.
DeistReality 3 years ago
Well it isn't a big deal. It is hard to keep track of everyone's opinions. I love Thomas Paine even though I am an atheist. Someone's religious profession isn't too important to me especially if they are Deist or agnostics.
overmind25 3 years ago
overmind25
Being an Atheist I assume that you don't believe in a god. This being the case how do you think life started? If its matter or substance that always was and always will be aren't these just other words for God. If you believe in a first case,or a starting point for life and know that the only way to find its truths is through the Creation/Life then you're a Deist by Thomas Paines definition? The word God to a Deist is as vast as the Creation itself.
DeistReality 3 years ago
Well I don't know how what we would call life originally started. Hopefully we will find out one day. A super powerful creator god seems too complex to have ever come into existence or to have some power to exist eternally.
overmind25 3 years ago
overmind25 We do know that at some point we all have a beginning. In time we as humans started somewhere. God,again the word is (should be) as vast as the Creation itself also must have had a starting point,or is the starting point that has no beginning or end and where S/He came from we will never know probably.
When you say your an Atheist that doesn't believe in the god theory aren't you leaving out an important theory? Is it reasonable to do this? Why not believe in Deism as your reality?
DeistReality 3 years ago
gnostic new age bullshit in a post-modern media driven society...propaganda.
twelvefifty 3 years ago
I am a perfectly content agnostic. It isn't so much that I don't believe in God, I just don't believe in organized religion. When it comes to the Creation/Evolution "debate," I say;
Did Evolution Occur?
Definitely.
Does that mean that there's no God?
Not necessarily.
But does that mean that all 6.6 billion people on Earth must assimilate into the Oh-So-Perfect Culture of Christianity lest they face an infinite punishment for their finite wrongdoings? Give me a break.
grungefreak10 3 years ago
Contrary to common belief, Deism is NOT a thing of the past. It's still very much alive and well. Even though it's not as a common belief system as it once was, Deism as well as pantheism is a main belief with many scientists, modern day philosophers, and other intellectuals.
FK4SD 3 years ago
FK4SD This is god news that I didn't know.
DeistReality 3 years ago
crazy dude , knowledge of foolish believes!
lexmarkxx 3 years ago
I've grown up in a Muslim family, I loved that religion "foolishly" until I've grown up and understood what's it all about, blood and considering any other "none Muslim man" an infidel and eventually will burn down forever in hell!! I'm totally against this,
Thank you very much "DeistReality" for this awesome video.
Merman83 3 years ago
This is really awesome!!!
I've been reading about Deism for so long, it's what I believe, but I think it's almost impossible to all human race to take it as a religion.
Merman83 3 years ago
I've made a definition of my own for religions,
Religions: ((Different methods to divide and separate human race into different fighting squads and leagues creating such an outrageous segregation in order to define God)).
This is what I think, people will still kill each other just define their own God.
Merman83 3 years ago
I really don't see that Oparh or Eckhart Tolle have that much in common with Deism and or Paine. It seems Tolle is claiming that his text was revealed to him. That is not Desim but just another person claiming they received a revealed text from a higher being. That puts him in the same boat as the Mormon, John Smith.
Cuffsmaster 3 years ago
What they say is basically only common sense and has been discussed and described in many psychological treatment programs. (Choice therapy or Reality Therapy) He offers little new information. (We live in the present and we must combat our ego.) Paine would have liked some of his stuff but probably would have rejected Tolle's claim that the his book was a revealed text. I know I reject it as I do any any claim to be a revealed text.
Cuffsmaster 3 years ago
One thing that I see that is common with Eckhart,Oparh,and Paine is their belief in God (the Creator of all). They look towards the creation for insight on God. They don't believe in any book as a literal truth only their life experiences when understanding our Maker,"This is Deism."
DeistReality 3 years ago
If Eckhart has received any revelations from God he differs in that he doesn't expect the rest of us to believe his personal revelation. He tells it because it changed his own life in a very profound way. He may claim that all things come from God,(Consciousness) but most of his books are about things that he studied,and not things revealed. He gives us his own insight on life. I do agree with allot of what he says,still its Theist talk,its his own faith on the matter.
This is my own opinion.
DeistReality 3 years ago
"Eckhart...differs in that he doesn't expect the rest of us to believe his personal revelation." REPLY_ But is that not what many say when meaning otherwise? They have to presuade others. Claiming it is a revealed text is a trigger to help pull the wool over your eyes. Look, I agree there is logic to his book (nothing new however) or it would never gain popularity.
Cuffsmaster 3 years ago
His claim that its revealed is a red flag to me. It seems to be a way to add a false holy truth to his work or he is a nut that believes it. I think Paine would agree.
If you are looking for a way to popularize Paine this is not the way. He is after popularizing his own revealed text.
Cuffsmaster 3 years ago
I'm looking for people who can bring Deism to the forefront of this society as fast as possibly. I believe that Eckhart,Oprah,Karen Armstrong,fit the description of a true Deist. You can't help what you are. They believe in the God of creation,and they know that the creation is the only way of understanding God. If these people can start calling themselves Deist's I believe that the reality of Deism will spread fast. There's a lot of us out there. We just don't know it yet. When we do look out!
DeistReality 3 years ago
Watch utube video "a new earth webcast" - (last of Chapter 1 part 1 and first of part 2). It's a watered down Mormon Joseph Smith kind of thing. He is way too smart to say directly but did hint at it. Granted he didn't use the word "revealed Text" but surely implied it and planted a psychological seed to grow.
Which is a good trick -- He lost me at that point.
Cuffsmaster 3 years ago
I also believe that if Deism is better understood the world would be a better and much safer place but I don't believe Oprah and Eckhart are a fair representation of the Deism philosophy. In Deism less is more.
I don't see how you can view the videos and not see that his implication that the book is a revealed text. He is just saying in a way to plant a seed and let you draw that conclusion. A very smart and sneeky guy.
Cuffsmaster 3 years ago
I know in my video I said that I would watch their show,but I never found the time, so this is my first time watching Eckhart on "TV",and I can see what your saying. What would you think of this kind of Deism as a religion,and not just a philosophy?
Because for me Deism can be a
1. Philosophy for some.
2. A theory for others.
3. The one true religion.
I do believe that God has the power to move people. I know this because S/He/? has done this for me. I think Tolle is sincere in his claims.
DeistReality 3 years ago
"What would you think of this kind of Deism as a religion, and not just a philosophy?" REPLY: I am not a good one to ask since after in proclamation that it being a revealed text I lost objectivity. I watched a few chapters study on video but have not read his book.What I saw was not really earth shattering. It is only expressed in a different way. I'm sorry but I really don't see it as the same as Desim.
Cuffsmaster 3 years ago
"I do believe that God has the power to move people. I know this because S/He/? has done this for me. I think Tolle is sincere in his claims" REPLY -- As we have seen throughout history being "sincere" in a "claim" does not make it real. Believing with all your heart does not make it fact.
Cuffsmaster 3 years ago
He just reminds me of some modern day guru claiming a revealed text. I have no idea if he is sincere in his claim but that is not my standard for determining his worth. It is reason and truth. It does not seem reasonable that it's a revealed.. I didn't leave other religions behind to find myself following some hip at the moment spiritual guru. Being a Deist does not leave me in search for a new and better truth. It it my answer.
Cuffsmaster 3 years ago
TO me, he is like Rasputin and the Czar's wife. He has found the modern day royality to latch on to as a spiritual guru. These come and go at the rate of 100's per century. Deism is much more basic and actually rejects these guru surges by its ver nature. It seeks reason and truth. No revealed text. Everything has to be proven. Evidence is a holly word not faith.
Cuffsmaster 3 years ago
Deist Cuffsmaster If you read the Power of Now, a New Earth. You will have a different opinion of Eckhart. He is a Deist like you and I. He believes in God,and he looks towards the creation for insight. He writes what he thinks on matters of God. Reason and truth come into play when you either believe what he says,or not. He most certainly isn't saying that if you don't believe you are wrong. He just states what he thinks is true about life,and our Maker. At times we all do that don't we?
DeistReality 3 years ago
"I'm looking for people who can bring Deism to the forefront of this society as fast as possibly" REPLY: I don't think Deism needs a Guru, nor do I think we need to have the mindset of evangelizing the world like Muslims and Christians. Leave them to that silly game of "my invisible friend is better than yours." That leads to exchanging bullet and bombs to prove your god is right.
Cuffsmaster 3 years ago
I could care less if Eckhart,Oprah,Karen Armstrong call themselves deist or not. Frankly they add baggage to my basic belief that is unacceptable. Deism's beauty is it simplicity. You don't need a guru teaching 10 Monday night on-line classes to fully understand Desim nor do you need the quirks added by him to make it real. They would only adding useless baggage and in the end cause harm not good. Keep it simple. I am not worred about saving the world that is Christans and muslims.
Cuffsmaster 3 years ago
Cuffsmaster:Thomas Paine died 200 years ago,still no one knows about Deism. The simplistic truth that he talked about our Maker no one has heard before.
Even Mr. Paine has been written off as a nobody.
I'm just pointing out fellow Deist's here. I'm not asking you to call them guru's,or spokesmen for this reality. I'm just saying that there are more of us then we know of. I have kids that need to grow in this world,I do care what happens in it.
Deism can help,and these people can make it known.
DeistReality 3 years ago
Cuffsmaster, Mr Tolle isn't claiming his books are a revealed text. In his mind he may believe that he is in tune with "Consciousness"(God),but he's not telling the rest of us that his writings are "revealed text",or a revelation from God. Anyone who believes somebody else's revelation from God has a great chance of being deceived. I know all the faiths do this,but its wrong in my opinion. They tell us that we're bad in Gods eyes if we don't agree with their prophets. Eckhart is not doing this.
DeistReality 3 years ago
It is true. God is. That is all we can say. Words fail entirely. "God is" would have to be an experience that replaces all theology, all thinking and talking ABOUT. Jesus gave us glory that we may be one, even as he and the Father are one: he in us, and God in him, that we may be made perfect in one.
It is about experience and realization of what we truly ARE. For that we are given an extraordinary tool, it's called A Course In Miracles.
who000are000you 3 years ago
We should not forget that Jesus said the world hates us. It hated him before us. Anyone who lives and teaches truly what Jesus taught is hated by this world, including those who profess to be his followers, but are blind to what he teaches. Fear makes blind. Fear generates hate. You can't change that. Fear has to be transformed, and that is an individual matter.
who000are000you 3 years ago