Aphex Twin and Mark Morgan in comparison

[perplexedmoth]

It's perfectly legit and more so encouraged as part of being a convention in some electronic music. If you still think it's not right somehow, that's due to lack of your ability to comprehend post-modernism, as opposed to the old world ideals.

[maromo1]

Uhm, people doing similar stuff in music, styles, weird. To be honest I have found the earlier work of Mark Morgan to be influencied by that kind of industrial-like sounds, aphex-twin is a master of that, and the guys that were going to do the Planescape Torment's soundtrack used that kind of audio too, It was very common in those years, I don't see the problem, neither the offense taken.

[rkplblenny]

You don't create electronic music, do you? You realize that in the late 90s, a lot of the same samples were used over and over due to limited availability of sample packs, right? And that there is no such thing as an original melody anymore, as everything has been done; we only have so many notes! The only example that seems similar to me here is Moribund World and Windowsill, but you only show a small portion of the track. When listened to in full, the similarities become less distinct.

[rkplblenny]

Morgan interview on the subject: "When Interplay was thinking of using me for the game, they sent over some music that they liked and wanted me to do something similar as a demo. The CD they sent me had no titles or artists’ names, just a few pieces of unidentified music. I gave Interplay what they wanted and I think they must have used some of my demo in the final game. At the time, I wasn’t familiar with the work of Aphex Twin. To me, it was just my interpretation of what Interplay asked for."

[Sphereal]

Not by a mile.

[fsol13]

Interesting comparison, thanks

[KingSpirit111]

So Aphex twin is an inspiration, what else is new?

[HeyAWoodElf]

Aphex Twin's songs were sampled in Fallout 1. It's on wiki.

[dudewutyeah]

Oh geez dude I bet you also bitch about Doom ripping off Slayer, get off your rag.

[RoasterBlack]

Aphex Twin = 1000 Mark Morgan

And I think Mark Morgan is pretty good.

[JackTheRuuster]

Similarities? Of course, there's always similarities inside genres. Especially if you try you can find lots of other artist who sound a little bit same in some small point of some track. Not rare, not new.

And Follower´s credo, that was my favorite "proof" to prove your point. Anyway, better let go of your conspiracy theories, there's no fame to gain with them.

[dalek604]

I get your point I do think you pushing it with the last but if that was the case then surely he ripped of The Gentle People too.

BTW I dont really think Richard really gives that much of a shit hes got plenty of money in the bank.

[Polaf3456]

Comparing a videogame composer to richard d james is like comparing a pile of bricks to an alien overlord...

[LxRv47]

The "Journey" comparison seems like a bit of a stretch. The others I get though.

[CavemanZX]

"So please keep this in mind when watching and commenting." So, keep in mind that you're an asshole? You're using a song that was made in 2003, which in itself is a remix to discredit him? Do you not see anything wrong with that? You then openly admit that your pushing it on several parts but yet still don't, oh I don't know, redo the video but with those parts removed to give a less biased presentation?

As someone who is critical of Morgan (the Stand By Me rip off), to me this is tripe.

[McYaballow]

@CavemanZX again, someone who is making the false assertion that the video is explicitly implying that either one ripped off the other one. the video is to show similarities between the two whether or not they were created independently or not - period. if you don't agree then that is simply your own problem; and honestly I don't really give enough of a shit about the issue to give a damn about redoing the video.

[Mindshape]

@McYaballow Hey, you know what they say... mimicry is the best form of flattery.

[FuriousRoellinghoff]

@CavemanZX I don't know the story with Morgan (would love to know if he had permission, if James got any compensation), but the Aphex Twin remix of "Journey" came out in 1995 on a Gentle People single, and the rest, and several other songs not mentioned here, appears to have been "borrowed" from Selected Ambient Works Volume II.

[edelgul]

1) Album "26 Mixes for Cash" was releasedby Aphex Twin in 2003

2) Windowstill is quite different to the Morgan's option.

3) If you really want to find something "stolen" by Morgan - try Eno's Alternative 3 from Music for Films (released in 1978). There the whole track is similar, just re sampled.

[yellowredxx]

OMG! This is like that thing Dimmu Borgir did to Tim Wright. Or Zombie Nation to David Whittaker. Or Hardy Hard to Tor Bernhard Gausen. Or...

[jakeupstudios]

when i watched the Book of Eli i thought the music was so good and so different but now it seems so similar to all his ambient stuff. weird

[FarfilicusStarship]

City of Lost Angels and Grass are exactly the same song almost, mind blown

[KCJacksonMuz]

The first song is slightly similar, but this is a very ambient song. Almost anything can sound similar.  The second song is really only alike in tempo, but otherwise its a different vibe. The last songs aren't very similar, and aphex twin sampeled another song for that one anyway. If you heard these songs seperately, it would be hard to make the connection. This isn't what I'd call plagiarism personally . . . probably more inspiration. Yoko kanno on the other hand . . .

[DeusLeneIV]

Mark Morgan <3 C'est autre chose que Inon Zur, les musiques de Mark Morgan ont la classe !!!!

[spacenoise5]

he picked tunes from the best, not fucking justin bieber

[Kinkoyaburi]

Nope. You are imagining things. Mark Morgan was right to tell you to take this video down.

[konjunktion26]

Mark Morgan stole the music of aphex twin! rather i do shit music - but its my own music - than copy the music of others! music is made of creativity and inspiration but i see here just that a nasty idiot stole song ideas from aphex twin and this is terrible!

[RAMMY237]

Also you can surely find similarities between Mark Morgan and Brian Eno, between Brian Eno and Aphex Twin. xD Good luck!

[Architectonic01]

The second RDJ tune is actually Siding Nails. The similarities are unmistakable, but to be honest, I prefer the Mark Morgan "REMIX". ;)

Secondly, sampling is ubiquitous in electronic music - though these days the game composers use sample libraries, rather than commercial work. (EG. some of those chilling ambient sounds used by Inon Zur in Fallout 3 are bonus fx from Project SAM).

[livery9]

obviously heavily influenced by rdj

[Rikardw]

They feature the same type of instruments and sometimes the same rhythm. I would not say they are similar in any way more than that though. "Kind of similar I guess" is the phrase I would use.

[CatMan221]

Aphex Twin is better nubs

[VishnuZutaten]

CHERRYPICKING

also you forgot to compare "Desert Wind" with (CD Only Track #1) - Analogue Bubblebath 3 :P

but as I say it's all just

CHERRYPICKING

FO1 OST is at least 40min long and we have like 3 themes and few samples :P

[McYaballow]

@VishnuZutaten Well considering that couple of the Fallout OST tracks were ENTIRELY ripped off from Aphex Twin and Morgan gets the credit for the work, I don't think it's cherrypicking. But yea, perhaps the last tracks in the comparison were pushing it a bit. As for the desert wind, I din't forget it. I just though that was really stretching it since the only similarity was a background sample. in the other tracks displayed here, there were actully similarities in rhythms and melodies.

[Snuskigaste]

@McYaballow So? Is it the music or which artist made what we should be focusing on?

[McYaballow]

@Snuskigaste That's entirely up to you.

[Pilarius]

For me only two are maybe the same.. But not in 100%. Also I know that Fallout creators gave to Morgan a cd with words "Compose something like this". What cd had Aphex Twin 'songs'

[shenmue4life]

this is what happened, either one of the two, aphex or mark, used the midi files from the others songs, in the writings of there own compositions, if that is ripping the other person off is up for you to decide, but who ripped off who is the question...

[McYaballow]

@shenmue4life no. Mark told me that he was given a bunch of material which included Aphex Twin in order to give direction on what kind of music was requested for Fallout. Mark then produced some preliminary demos which weren't intended to end up in the game but then they actually did. Basically the game's soundtrack consists of these demos.

[assimilateur]

@McYaballow

If that's true, then there's nothing to be ashamed of. Accordingly, I don't see why he'd break your balls about taking this video down.

[maccrimbo]

@shenmue4life I know I'm stepping into this debate long after it died but Richards talents speak for themselves, he's a true original, anyone who sounds like aphex twin has ripped him off, it's virtually impossible to be influenced by him without sounding entirely derivative

[buzzpuppet]

another masterpiece of ambience

[UltimateEnd0]

Mark's work has so much more character to it.

[discodevil338]

Richard D James and Mark Morgan are two of my favorite musicians. If some of their songs sound similar, i think its cool because i like them all.

[PsycCentauri]

Still, mark Morgan did a great job. It fit fallout perfectly.

[Peanutslayer2]

the music in FO2 is soooo eerie 0-0

[northerncluster]

There's something fishy going on.

There's an interview of him on a russian video game music portal, where he mentions that he received some AFX music from Black Isle as blueprints, if I remember correctly, for the future soundtrack for Fallout. He also says he was not familiar with Aphex Twin at that time. Also, according to Wikipedia, Windowsill appears in its entirety in Fallout 2, credited as "EFX".

I guess the truth is somewhere in between.

[northerncluster]

Beside the obvious similarity between Grass and City of Lost Angels, the other songs don't really have nothing in common besides the fact that they're both pieces of ambient electronic music. He was obviously influenced by RIchard's work, but I wouldn't say he plagiarized anything. OK, maybe Grass. :P I don't understand why he doesn't aknowledge it, however.

[JimGodx]

And Windowsill was directly included...

[electronicmilkman]

yeah, yeah, i get it.

[elderskiffler]

I dunno, maybe they both get inspiration from the same source?

Maybe they should collaborate?

I just wish Mr. Morgan had done the Fallout 3 Soundtrack. Sigh...

[Xziz10ths]

me too. unfortunately Bethseda is smearing thier crap all over it.

[Peanutslayer2]

@elderskiffler i wish aphex twin would have done the music for fallout 3. i mean, if you listen to the song "Cliffs" by him its just the perfect song for walking around the wasteland

[nimesis23]

conformity isn't individuality.

stealing an good idea and sometimes it would be better.

an artist steals from everywhere. thats progression!

[lysergicwindow]

hmmm... is that self similarity? fractal copies? iterations on the theme???

either way it's still a very interesting comparison... cheers for posting!

[Encrust]

Hmmm, yes.

[comscar]

the old Fallouts had such great sound tracks.

[metalzone2000]

but fallout 2 came 5 years before 25 mixes for cash......

either way.....both artist are heavily influenced on me. I still play Fallout 2 to this day!

[RibbzMan]

well good! People should still be playing it. The game is amazing! :D

[youarelackluster]

but the gentle people  journey (afx rmx) was released on a couple of compilations in...... 1996.

[mikelogic303]

Good composers copy.

Great composers steal!!

nothing new in this, hehe ;)

[Ziomster04]

Holy crap... nice compilation mate xD! 5/5

[McCrawwmac]

I was thinking this while playing the game, Thanks for the video.

[Carlo1Brito]

Thank You

[BasementKoOk]

great job, pal!

[photonlust]

jeezus, thanks for making a video about this McYaballow... It's always something I've noticed while listening to the soundtrack and read about, but this really puts it into proper perspective!

I don't know about the last track though, i think it sounds more like hankie.

And to me "The Vats" and "City Of The Dead" both sound like they were heavily influenced from "Tassels"

Anyone ever think that brotherhood of steel and vault 13 themes sound like they may have influenced HL 1 Soundtrack?

[aphextwwin]

Talent Imitate ... Genius Steals

[cyphersum]

inspiration? more like appropriation!

waaaaay too close to RDJ's compositions me thinks.

[Phthgn]

Hmm, I've been just listening to the Robert Rich/Alio Die album "Fissures" and as I soon as the track "A Canopy of Fissures" played I instantly thought "hey, this is something from the Fallout soundtracks!". I haven't found yet the fallout track in question (maybe the music from the village in 2?) but it says on wikipedia that Morgan used some Robert Rich music in the soundtrack of "Zork Nemesis" so there might be a connection.

[josefgiven]

Pretty sure Mark Morgan has been fairly open that Selected Ambient Works 2 influenced him a lot when he was doing Fallout's music.

[LordTyrannus]

@josefgiven

Influence doesn't mean use identical ambiance and beats.

[josefgiven]

@LordTyrannus fair point

[krone01]

@josefgiven influence is diff to straight out stealing ideas to the point of clear convergence to the original

[josefgiven]

@krone01 you're right. This is the second time I've had to concede that point (see LordTyrannus' comment below ;))

[MekaGabe]

yeah. its just easier just to say he ripped off Richard James.

[MekaGabe]

but then again it was only 3 songs.

[ttto]

and a few from Brian Eno like Alternative 3

[rekkujalmari]

The others are obvious, but Followers' Credo vs. Journey is stretching it. Descending synth strings are not exactly a unique musical idea, and the scales are totally different in these two songs. The Aphex Twin remix was released in 2003 so it's not like the other tracks where Morgan was directly inspired by James' work, but would instead have to be the other way around were there any connection between the two tracks.

[McYaballow]

this video is to demonstrate the similarities between the two. it doesnt imply whether either one ripped off the other one.

[rekkujalmari]

The implication should be there though, since the first two songs obviously are rip-offs that Mark Morgan based on the tape he got from Tim Cain. In that sense, the including Followers' Credo just seems random. By the way, I'm not saying it's a bad thing Mark Morgan ripped off Aphex Twin, in fact he perfected the songs.

[BATalsdr]

the aphex twin remix of journey was originally released in 1995

[rekkujalmari]

Right you are, my bad.

[LogicalBS]

Lustmord and Boards of Canada ftw. :)

[Humanophage]

Mark Morgan is my favourite dark ambient composer, alongside Endura. It's great that he was actually inspired by a different musician with similiar music, as I'm growing short of soundtracks for indie games such as Geneforge. I never suspected that Aphex Twin did something like that. In general, Mark Morgan isn't known for his particularly ethnical behaviour (some of the tracks for Planescape are the same as in Netstorm), but his music is stellar. So atmospheric, fits all non-standard settings.

[HonoluluNinja]

Go look up dark ambient if you think these two sound similar.

[scypior]

According to some interview, Morgan got a tape from Tim Cain which contained music that was supposed to show what style of music the producer wanted for Fallout. So maybe there were some pieces of Aphex Twin, but Morgan wasn't aware of that at the time.

[maggitPL]

Anyway he did a great job on the soundtrack. Unlike that crap we'll hear from Inon Zur. It's nothing like Fallout.

[LHCLEGION]

Funny thing is, the same thing happened with Bobby Prince when he was composing for Doom. Romero handed him a bunch of metal CDs and said "make music like this." So Prince basically ripped off Pantera, Metallica, and especially Slayer, among several other artists.

I've actually put together a compilation album of all the known ripoffs and their sources, if you want it.

[scypior]

Yup:) I played Doom first, and heard Metallica, Pantera later and I was really surprised that this tunes were familiar to me:)

If you could link this album it would be great;)

[SpaceCadet1]

I bet there are some who have already known this for 10 years or so. The point of the vid was just to demonstrate it through actual excerpts, since neither SAWII or 26 Mixes for Cash are the best known of Richard's discography. And come to think about it, regular listeners of Fallout music are relatively scarce, too^^

[rippemies]

Morgan has already said he was influenced by Aphex Twin. This is no news.

[McYaballow]

Actually he has never admitted that he has been influenced by James in the case of the FALLOUT soundtrack. In fact he said in an interview that he wasn't familiar at all with Richard's work by the time he was doing the soundtrack.

[3h8b8f1s]

Didn't Morgan already admit that he used Aphex as the inspiration to the Fallout ambient sounds?

[McYaballow]

According to the last interview I read, Morgan wasn't familiar at all with Aphex Twin by the time.

[cxmtl]

well documented! cheers

[MDM616]

I listened to ICBYD today, and heard another passage that sounded so similar to Fallout, but I don't remember in which song it was.

[SpaceCadet1]

If you remember the track then notify my bro, who is the uploader of this vid. The video could be edited to be more extensive if more similarities arise.

[TuttiSolo]

Very well observed. It's nice to think that Richard's played Fallout.

[McYaballow]

Considering release dates, it was probably Morgan who got influenced by Richard..

[cephal0p0d]

Who isn't influenced by RDJ?

I sure was.