@judorican973 I didn't heard about Edson training with Okano. I know that Edson trained with my own sensei. George K. Mehdi, but after his fight with Wallid he had to stop practicing there... I know that he trained in Japan for a time before this unfortunate event with Wallid, maybe he trained with Okano as Mehdi sensei considers Okano as his own brother, and would certainly advise Edson to visit Okano's dojo!
@DuykRuyk Unless it was meant to be sarcastic, and is just lacking a smiley :-), I think it is the opposite. It looks completely effortless. By the time the attacking leg connects with uke's body, uke is already flying high. Compared with another master of o-soto-gari, Masahiko Kimura, Okano's version seems to use no force at all.
@DuykRuyk You're referring to his uchikomi!!! It is meant to be an exaggerated move because you can't simply thrown an immovable uke (person subject of the throw) in a moment of opportunity as you can do moving. Anyway Judo principles is not against the use of force. That would be aikido. Judo main principle is the most effective use of force, you must maximize your power by utilizing it effectively. That's why overpowering is frowned upon as the throw would not work on someone stronger.
@loudenvier Thank you for explaining something I already understand and mentioned in my last comment. My point: he's using too much force and should try to use the other person's force against them because judo means gentle way. Your point: derp, they should use force anyway. Don't bother replying to this comment. I don't respond to idiots.
@DuykRuyk Well, it doesn't seem you know much about Judo, and you can't keep a civilized discussion. When you start getting Judo classes with world renowned sensei, come back to discuss again Okano's "use of force". And enlight me on how you would use ones force against oneself when one is standing still doing uchikomi. Do you at least know what uchikomi is? Do you have a sensei? Show him this comment thread and ask his opinion if you dare...
@DuykRuyk Okano was able to use his throws against much, much physically stronger opponents, if he based his throws in too much force, it wouldn't work. He was the only middleweight to date to won the All-Japan Open Championships 3 times. Anyone who goes to Judo expecting "gentleness" when practicing is in for a great surprise. Judo is one of the most demanding arts, being throw relentlessly is VERY VERY HARD. Gentle way is a very, very poor translation.
@loudenvier "Gentle Way" makes more sense when you think of its history as a part of budo. They would call it "gentle way" (judo) or "gentle techniques" (jiu-jitsu) because its a lot more gentle than taking your sword out and chopping a dude in half.
@FartJokeResearchLabs Jiu-jitsu means gentle because it is opposed to use brute strength in favor of technique. The translation to "gentle" is misleading. Jiu-jitsu also encompasses fighting with weapons. Don't mix jiu-jitsu with Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, which is a form of Judo. It is not "gentle" in comparison with sword fighting. It only became a LOT less violent when changed from -jitsu (occupation/job/art) to "-do" by Kano Jigoro view of "jiu-jitsu" as a pedagogic system
@loudenvier If you think jujutsu involved weapons, you are mistaken. Kenjutsu, bojutsu, and other -jutsu arts were the samurai arts that pertained to training with weapons. Jujutsu by definiteion is an unarmed form of combat. Any form of jujutsu you see that trains in weapons is a corrupted blend of the original form.
Jujutsu = the gentle way = not killing a peasant with a sword, but disarming them using your hands or body.
@FartJokeResearchLabs You are not correct. Ju-jutsu does have weapons. Mostly small weapons. You are romanticizing the meaning of ju. It does NOT mean that. Ju-Jutsu simply means, if you can trace it to a single meaning, a way to overcome stronger/more powerful opponents, turning their forces against themselves. The result IS NOT GENTLE. Ju should be understood not as GENTLE but as YIELDING as you shouldn't oppose force directly. Many jujutsu schools employes weapons.
@FartJokeResearchLabs The translation to "gentle way" or arte-suave is something that started mostly with the Gracies (I'm Brazilian, writing this response directly from Rio de Janeiro in the middle of Carnival! Am I crazy??? :-) By the way, you should come to Brazil in Carnival, you'll go crazy!!!) They got many things from Judo without knowing the deep reasoning/meanings behind and they had to discover/reinvent many things themselves, even the meanings of their art!
@jonezysan I don't know. There is at least 4 different uke in this whole video. One is certainly Roger Cadière, and he is certainly not Brazilian. The other Brazilian that comes to my mind would be my own sensei George Mehdi, who considers and is considered as family by Okano sensei, but no one looks like Mehdi in the video, but maybe he was too young for me to spot him out... I don't know of another Brazilian (and even Mehdi is only naturalized Brazilian) that could be in Japan at the time...
Merci, pour info le grand à la fin de la vidéo c'est Roger Cadière actuellement 6ème dan notre prof de jujitsu traditionnel self-défense (prof de judo également) au Judo Sport Rochelais (dojo place Cacaud 17000 La Rochelle)
For people like you sport science is rubbish, no one from USSR cant wrestle etc. And your argument for those statement: you not like way we wrestling on tatami for it not look like Japanese it is smartest argument you come up with. man it poor.
It is just show level of your mental ability.
Yes, we all stupid for you cos we wrestle judo, not play. Of course if best exercise for you it is play with your balls, than you keep play. Play sambo, play judo, play BJJ.
@NZD99 FYI, I own very good Judo books from Eastern Block and European Judoka like Alexander Iatskevich, Van der Walle and I also own a few video instructionals from Gokor Chivichyan, some historical documentaries on Ruska and Geesink, etc. Contrary to you I really learn from different sources, not downplaying anyone nor disrespecting any country. Your views are not Judo. And they are not an education too. You should stick to doing push-ups!
He lives in Christchurch, but wanted to know if you would be good enough to accept his challenge?
We hope he might like it in your country better.
He is a bludger here, at taxpayers expense.
I think some of his ideas are good but the others are very different.
He believes all NZ Olympic medallist rowers are drug cheats, that it's inevitable to succeed. He was a problem at previous tournament abused our top referee& would not apologize.
You not good enough Graeme, and cant challenge face to face, so prefer discriminate us at any possible way from behind. You Graeme failed as coach and teach rubbish, so you chose easy way it to keep away from usgood for your self-esteem bad for sport development. But true is you not care about sport. You even do not know about Olympic 2010, so no Judo athletes would represents NZ. It is show what kind pro you are. I told you about Olympic 4 years ago.
prove scientifically that Karate and aikido and japanese Jujitsu are not viable self defense systems,
I challenge you to name the city for your Olympics 2010 when I repeatedly advise you Olympics are London 2012.
I challenge you to stop annoying judoka with your Japanese Judo style hate comments, and just get on with what you do, prove its the best by winning personally or by your students, like every other coach attempts.
To appropriately challenge data I provide, for first learn to analyse, think and provide appropriate contra arguments. You are missing that a lot of this.
You are constantly speculating and failing provide any appropriate scientific data. For you disable to operate in that level, for reason of luck of education and mental ability.
To prove you ignorance and unprofessionalism most simplest way just follow official IOC links about Olympic 2010. It explains every thing.
@chchjudoschool Hello my friend. I know he is annoying, but I do not mind taking my time to answer him. It really do not affect me in any way. His impoliteness, rudeness, stupidity and lack of reasoning skills is evident in every post he makes. He even misunderstood my legitimate invitation to share our point of views personally. He do not know my background in science and Judo, and I do not want to pull rank, that's very un-judo-like! Best wishes and hail from Brazil!
If you wish challenge me you need to pay. I not working for free but if you willing to pay for my visit and host me I may come for week or so to teach you for free.
You're analyzing Okano's entry in a completely wrong fashion, narrowly focusing on a "fantastic" jumping entry which would make him vulnerable to a counter while not taking into account the whole movement. It also seems that you are not being able to communicate effectively in a foreign language. So my invitation to Brazil stands, and we can demonstrate in practice the theory we're discussing (in a very confusing way)
2. It is not my fantasy but it is scientific research made in USSR
3. In USSR things I talking about is basic of Judo.
4. If you not like and think it wrong, than you need to proof with appropriate scientific research and justify in front Sport Science counsel most of them best USSR judokas and sambists.
@NZSambo you're living in a dream. Apart from Tmenov I didn't see any great Judoka coming from the USSR dissolved block for decades. And Tmenov has a very Japanese style Judo. If you fail to acknowledge that you're simply stupid (as your comments imply but I'm trying not to make a prejudgment of you). You should take some history lessons before talking. Didn't u know that the Japanese WIPED THE FLOOR in the Sambo nationals inside Russia taking gold in every category without never training Sambo?
It must be noticed that while Sambo players are said to be very good in newaza, they can't beat any top Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu player in newaza. Does that make BJJ superior to Sambo and Russian Judo in general? Does it make Brazilian sport science superior too? You should take some lessons on deductive logic, read Aristoteles, Platão and a few other great philosophers as to know what makes a sound argument and not simple fallacies... When u want to learn Judo, come to Brazil, I'll teach you gladly
Do you see that you're just being a disrespectful fool? Can you show me anyone with a Phd in biomechanics that can beat an average Japanese Judoka in Judo? Lets make a deal, why don't you come to Rio and make a visit to this wonderful city? While doing so, please drop me an email so we can discuss this on the mat, and you can show me face to face what you're trying to imply. I really think you're not being able to express yourself clearly in a foreign language. Cheers.
It is product of decades of most advanced scientific research. Not sick fantasy of 17 y.o. boy from 19th century with little combat knowledge and governmental power.
@NZSambo I believe you're seeing things that do not exist. Have u see the way he uses the tsurite to unbalance and make a perfect entry? I suggest you to get any instructionals on Judo since you seem to miss even the basic notions of the sport. I strongly advise you to get Isao Okano's Vital Judo books, both in grappling and throwing, so that you can learn some Judo and stop trying to analyze bio-mechanically while lacking serious know-how in physics. U don't even see the abominations you speak!
few times on entry he have jump UP. Elevate his body up he stay on his toes as ballerina. (second 2, 8.53) it is means hi go up make wave, rock his body. I not see any slightly bented knee. May I blind
When you rock(jumping up) it is moment you die. If opponent good. If opponent not skill full you may get away with any bushtit.
Do I need biomechanicaly explain reason why jumping in entry is not practical and considered as error?
I see what you're referring to an error. You're wrong. Okano uses a kind of back-step in the entry and thats what you claimed to be a jump. The staying on his toe as a ballerina is in fact the correct way of doing o-soto-gari (search for Yamashita sensei instructional videos). You must also notice that he does the tsukuri (positioning for the throw) after/simultaneously kuzushi (unbalancing) preventing any opponent from countering him. Pay attention to his hara too, and tell me there's a mistake
There is a BIOMECHANICAL principle and you (following Japanese) ignore them. I was kind and share with you people research in 100 university for 60 years, and bit crap of whole world. It is you call keep going blind and idolise Japanese, who teach bullshit, or sober up and apply science.
This is an Ad hominen argument and thus a fallacy. If I don't consider an error what you considered as such in one of the most technical judoka of all time this does not tell anything about my professional level, nor yours, it just tells that we differ in opinion regarding this. Okano's way of doing o-soto-gari is based on a speedy entry and his deviations from the "norm" in practice enhance the effectiveness of the throw. Can you use arguments citing timings on the video for accurate reasoning?
Are you really serious about correcting Okano sensei entry into o-soto-gari?!?!? (Just a reminder: he was a 3 time all-japan judo champion, the most difficult open weight Judo championship in the world, while only weighting aroung 75kg. Okano is considered one of the best technicians that ever lived, it is hard to believe anyone on the net could make any constructive criticism about his technique)
Okano is not God, his o-soto-gari may have issues, although I believe it takes an extraordinarily knowledgeable Judoka to pass judgment on how he does a technique. His supporting leg is always slightly bent as he enters and then it straitens (along with the supporting foot) for added effect. The reaping leg (not blocking leg, this is an error inexperienced and experienced judoka commit) attacks uke's leg at the perfect spot (behind the knee) and reaps in the right, most effective direction.
I assume because of the opponent blocking or stiff arming on your entry to osoto... If so, notice how his body twists as he pulls the hikite and enters shoulder to shoulder, it has helped my osoto
Kimura's o-soto-gari is very different than Okano's. Okano's o-soto-gari has the feel of harai-goshi sometimes, while Kimura's o-soto-gari is much more "classical". In the end, both did superb o-soto-gari's...
I noticed something weird about his right hand grip... Is he feinting a Tai-Otoshi with the right hand grip and slight hip movement? It looks like he feint a Tai-Otoshi then changed to Osoto-Gari to finish.
I don't think it looks like a tai-otoshi feint. In fact his action on the tsurite-hand (the right hand in the video) is characteristic of tsuri-komi-goshi, and may even look like a feint, but I don't think it is. All of Okano's main waza started with this same motion of the hands, and almost the same stepping pattern, and he could do his tokui-waza seoi-nage, or this o-soto-gari, or ko-uchi-gari and o-uchi-gari without uke anticipating which!
I can't comment on the politics discussed earlier, but I will say that this is an amazing judoka with the best O Soto I've ever seen.... This should be required watching for all judoka!
Remember that this is Isao Okano, the greatest Judoka of all time. He won the All Japan Championship 3 times despite weighting only 75kg. This feat was never done before nor after Okano. In the complete footage he also did his trademark morote-seoi-nage, just a little more frequently than this o-soto, so I guess he may have used this in actual competition, but just less frequently than his unstopable seoi
If you're referencing to Masahiko Kimura from which the BJJ Kimura came then I'm not sure. He was not a higher rank because he was too much of a trouble-maker in his youth, and drank too much. Not a very political guy... He was amazing as a fighter though. I think he reached 5th dan or 6th... I will ask some knowledgeable sources about his official Kodokan rank.
I've confirmed his Kodokan rank. He was Shichidan (7th dan) when he died. In Judo it's not only the athletics that matter, it's expected that the judoist have complete understanding of the principles, techniques, history and traditions of judo. The behavior outside the dojo is also important. That said, there's also the politics side of this. Kimura wasn't in good terms with the very people that could give him ranks (he refused to give back the All Japan championship flag).
But when it comes down to politics it also become unjust. Kimura received his 7th dan (shichidan) when he was 30 years old and remained as such for 47 years until his death. Okano sensei (the one in this video), probably the greatest Judoist of all time, is also rokudan (6th dan) for more than 40 years and he clearly deserves, given all possible requirements, the title of kudan (9th dan), but he opposed the Kodokan rulers many times in the past, so... politics again...
First, your Hastur came from Marion Zimmer Bradley's Darkover series? :-) Second, we just can't compare because there was no such high-level competition at Mifune's time like the all japan championship... That said, Mifune is believed to be the greatest technician of all time in Kodokan Judo, but even other contemporaries of him were more effective in shiai. The greatness of Okano lies in he being one of the best technicians in Judo of all time, and certainly the greatest in shiai.
I got the name from The King In Yellow, but it was then used by H.P. Lovecraft and has since spread widely into almost all of literature.
Mifune was an incredible technician; I really enjoy the story of him throwing a sumo wrestler over twice his weight with sumi-otoshi because that shows the supreme amount of skill he must have had.
While it is difficult to compare them, I do think that if they had randori together, it'd be hard to say who'd come out on top.
Another factor is that Isao retired from professional Judo at the age of 25, while Mifune and Kimura kept on competing for quite a while after that. Because we only have examples of Isao in his prime, while Mifune and Kimura have examples later in life (Mifune toppled that sumo at forty, for example), it is even harder.
What I did find is that this o soto gari feels a lot more related to the o uchi gari as I was taught it than the o soto gari I used to do. I think that's a good thing, really. Especially the chassé-like step where you replace the front (throwing) foot with the back foot. That's what I was taught to do in o uchi. Also, with the sweeping, circular movement, they become much closer, like brothers instead of second cousins.
I don't think it's anything like o-soto-guruma: in o-soto-guruma, the big wheel, uke is thrown over the hips of tori, in a grand circular motion, much like if he was running and had hit a fence, tumbling over it (the fence is tori's hip). In this o-soto-gari the direction of the throw and uke's falling pattern makes it very different from o-soto-guruma.
I was suggesting this mostly based on the way I learned o-soto-guruma - like o-soto-gari but with turning the hip further and reaping across both legs.
If you want to see what I mean, check out my (only) video, the second throw I make. It may not be the best example since the video was made after a month's break and I's feeling rather sluggish.
Also, I'm just a green belt (sankyu) in jiu jitsu, and our nage-waza training is based on Kawaishi's system.
MAN!!!! I AM WRONG!!!! I'M SURE I READ O-GURUMA!!!! Sorry for that!!! But, then, back to myself, o-soto-guruma has to reap both legs, it attacks the far leg, Okano's o-soto-gari reaps the nearer leg, but it's so devastating that uke flies in the air... then I don't see the o-soto-guruma similarity.. at my academy we are taugh to do osotogari by entering deep with the hips and using the upper leg to reap, much alike Okano, but never like him :-)
I'll give you that what he's doing is obviously aimed at the nearer leg. At least it's obvious in the second-to-last throw in the clip. In that one, though, it doesn't seem like he's turning his hip as much as he does in the non-randori demonstrations - it's more like a "classic" o-soto-gari, though obviously very well executed.
Back when I was a kid (I trained ju jitsu 20 years ago, recently started again after a 10 year break), I was taught to do the reaping in o-soto-gari with lower leg against lower leg, which is probably why I think this looks more like o-soto-guruma, in which I'd (when I get back in shape) turn the hip more and swing the leg back to get both legs, upper leg against upper leg.
My sensei is Georges Mehdi, he lived together with Isao Okano when both of them attended university together. Mehdi's Judo is much influenced by Okano, who he considers the greatest Judoka/Judoist of all time. That's probably why he teaches us o-soto-gari using the upper leg, passing the hip deeply, reaping with the thigh (sorry again for confusing o-soto-guruma with o-guruma, it's probably because judonerd mentioned harai-goshi sometimes confused with o-guruma)
That sounds pretty sensible. I'm definately going to try out the difference next training.
I've been thinking a bit about the translation of gari - reaping. It makes me think of a circular motion, like the one you'd make with a scythe when reaping crops. My sensei was trying to get me to do o uchi gari with a circular motion rather than just swipe the leg with a backwards motion. Maybe that'll help my o soto as well. Something to experiment with for sure.
Mehdi sensei also tells us to do this "scythe-like" move when doing harai-goshi, and he says that the reaping leg in o-soto-gari should work like the reaping leg in uchi-mata: "it's just like doing an uchimata to the other direction!"
Interesting - I'd expect the harai movement to be more of a linear movement. I (try to) do harai goshi by swinging the leg in a straight line, just like in de-ashi-harai I swing my leg in a straight line from outside to inside. I was trying to make the movements fit to the naming of the throw, I guess.
Anyway, like I said, I'm not really a judoka, but our jiu jitsu club does have quite a bit of focus on nage-waza. I found this discussion very interesting, so thank you very much!
Yes, that's how his o-soto was defined... But it is definitely an o-soto-gari because of the direction uke falls, but his body position seems a bit (or a lot) like harai-goshi, but I think it's not the hips that are at work to complete the throw... which brings us to ArneSostack comment: is this like o-soto-guruma?
thank you so much!! shows how the modern osoto gari is all out of whack. in this "dynamic" osoto gari he acutually steps back and drives with his back foot instead of stepping to the side.
In fact, although his left foot goes to the back of his right foot he is always stepping forward, but not to the side... when completing the throw he sometimes jump on his own supporting foot and only then it is positioned to the side of uke... no matter it is always a devastating throw... And the kusuzhi? simply perfect!!!
Sensei Edson carvalho train with Okano! Nice very OSS
judorican973 4 days ago
@judorican973 I didn't heard about Edson training with Okano. I know that Edson trained with my own sensei. George K. Mehdi, but after his fight with Wallid he had to stop practicing there... I know that he trained in Japan for a time before this unfortunate event with Wallid, maybe he trained with Okano as Mehdi sensei considers Okano as his own brother, and would certainly advise Edson to visit Okano's dojo!
loudenvier 3 days ago
Ohhhh snap that's what I do X)
WARXDEVILXALAN 1 week ago
Hey @loudenvier you are the idiot.
pjmalamo 1 month ago
@pjmalamo You're welcome!
loudenvier 1 month ago
Power Power !
jesus27245 3 months ago
He looks like he's using way too much force.
DuykRuyk 3 months ago
@DuykRuyk Unless it was meant to be sarcastic, and is just lacking a smiley :-), I think it is the opposite. It looks completely effortless. By the time the attacking leg connects with uke's body, uke is already flying high. Compared with another master of o-soto-gari, Masahiko Kimura, Okano's version seems to use no force at all.
loudenvier 3 months ago
@loudenvier Look at 0:06 - 0:08 he is totally yanking that guy around. I'm pretty sure judo means "gentle way."
DuykRuyk 3 months ago
@DuykRuyk You're referring to his uchikomi!!! It is meant to be an exaggerated move because you can't simply thrown an immovable uke (person subject of the throw) in a moment of opportunity as you can do moving. Anyway Judo principles is not against the use of force. That would be aikido. Judo main principle is the most effective use of force, you must maximize your power by utilizing it effectively. That's why overpowering is frowned upon as the throw would not work on someone stronger.
loudenvier 3 months ago
@loudenvier Thank you for explaining something I already understand and mentioned in my last comment. My point: he's using too much force and should try to use the other person's force against them because judo means gentle way. Your point: derp, they should use force anyway. Don't bother replying to this comment. I don't respond to idiots.
DuykRuyk 3 months ago
@DuykRuyk Well, it doesn't seem you know much about Judo, and you can't keep a civilized discussion. When you start getting Judo classes with world renowned sensei, come back to discuss again Okano's "use of force". And enlight me on how you would use ones force against oneself when one is standing still doing uchikomi. Do you at least know what uchikomi is? Do you have a sensei? Show him this comment thread and ask his opinion if you dare...
loudenvier 3 months ago
@DuykRuyk Okano was able to use his throws against much, much physically stronger opponents, if he based his throws in too much force, it wouldn't work. He was the only middleweight to date to won the All-Japan Open Championships 3 times. Anyone who goes to Judo expecting "gentleness" when practicing is in for a great surprise. Judo is one of the most demanding arts, being throw relentlessly is VERY VERY HARD. Gentle way is a very, very poor translation.
loudenvier 3 months ago
@loudenvier "Gentle Way" makes more sense when you think of its history as a part of budo. They would call it "gentle way" (judo) or "gentle techniques" (jiu-jitsu) because its a lot more gentle than taking your sword out and chopping a dude in half.
FartJokeResearchLabs 1 week ago
@FartJokeResearchLabs Jiu-jitsu means gentle because it is opposed to use brute strength in favor of technique. The translation to "gentle" is misleading. Jiu-jitsu also encompasses fighting with weapons. Don't mix jiu-jitsu with Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, which is a form of Judo. It is not "gentle" in comparison with sword fighting. It only became a LOT less violent when changed from -jitsu (occupation/job/art) to "-do" by Kano Jigoro view of "jiu-jitsu" as a pedagogic system
loudenvier 1 week ago
@loudenvier If you think jujutsu involved weapons, you are mistaken. Kenjutsu, bojutsu, and other -jutsu arts were the samurai arts that pertained to training with weapons. Jujutsu by definiteion is an unarmed form of combat. Any form of jujutsu you see that trains in weapons is a corrupted blend of the original form.
Jujutsu = the gentle way = not killing a peasant with a sword, but disarming them using your hands or body.
FartJokeResearchLabs 1 week ago
@FartJokeResearchLabs You are not correct. Ju-jutsu does have weapons. Mostly small weapons. You are romanticizing the meaning of ju. It does NOT mean that. Ju-Jutsu simply means, if you can trace it to a single meaning, a way to overcome stronger/more powerful opponents, turning their forces against themselves. The result IS NOT GENTLE. Ju should be understood not as GENTLE but as YIELDING as you shouldn't oppose force directly. Many jujutsu schools employes weapons.
loudenvier 1 week ago
@FartJokeResearchLabs The translation to "gentle way" or arte-suave is something that started mostly with the Gracies (I'm Brazilian, writing this response directly from Rio de Janeiro in the middle of Carnival! Am I crazy??? :-) By the way, you should come to Brazil in Carnival, you'll go crazy!!!) They got many things from Judo without knowing the deep reasoning/meanings behind and they had to discover/reinvent many things themselves, even the meanings of their art!
loudenvier 1 week ago
Isao Okano is awesome. I have one of his book and I read it like a Bible
zeerebel 1 year ago
Poetry in motion.
stillcyco8 1 year ago
Wow! Fantastic vid! Okano got o soto gari down perfectly, I wish I could be as smooth as that.
I wonder if the guy that appeared to try to throw him seoi nage at :32 really messed it up or if that was for demonstration...
swiftjeff 1 year ago
This was a practice session between judoka okano sensei and a brazilian blackbelt.
jonezysan 4 months ago in playlist osoto gari
@jonezysan I don't know. There is at least 4 different uke in this whole video. One is certainly Roger Cadière, and he is certainly not Brazilian. The other Brazilian that comes to my mind would be my own sensei George Mehdi, who considers and is considered as family by Okano sensei, but no one looks like Mehdi in the video, but maybe he was too young for me to spot him out... I don't know of another Brazilian (and even Mehdi is only naturalized Brazilian) that could be in Japan at the time...
loudenvier 3 months ago
Ok et merci!
TEAMJUJITSU 1 year ago
Merci, pour info le grand à la fin de la vidéo c'est Roger Cadière actuellement 6ème dan notre prof de jujitsu traditionnel self-défense (prof de judo également) au Judo Sport Rochelais (dojo place Cacaud 17000 La Rochelle)
TEAMJUJITSU 1 year ago
@TEAMJUJITSU Thanks for the information. I'll update the description to reference Roger Cadière participation in the randori with Okano. Thanks!
loudenvier 1 year ago
For people like you sport science is rubbish, no one from USSR cant wrestle etc. And your argument for those statement: you not like way we wrestling on tatami for it not look like Japanese it is smartest argument you come up with. man it poor.
It is just show level of your mental ability.
Yes, we all stupid for you cos we wrestle judo, not play. Of course if best exercise for you it is play with your balls, than you keep play. Play sambo, play judo, play BJJ.
NZD99 1 year ago
@NZD99 FYI, I own very good Judo books from Eastern Block and European Judoka like Alexander Iatskevich, Van der Walle and I also own a few video instructionals from Gokor Chivichyan, some historical documentaries on Ruska and Geesink, etc. Contrary to you I really learn from different sources, not downplaying anyone nor disrespecting any country. Your views are not Judo. And they are not an education too. You should stick to doing push-ups!
loudenvier 1 year ago 3
Hi Loudenvier;
I just block NZ Sambo,
He lives in Christchurch, but wanted to know if you would be good enough to accept his challenge?
We hope he might like it in your country better.
He is a bludger here, at taxpayers expense.
I think some of his ideas are good but the others are very different.
He believes all NZ Olympic medallist rowers are drug cheats, that it's inevitable to succeed. He was a problem at previous tournament abused our top referee& would not apologize.
chchjudoschool 1 year ago
You not good enough Graeme, and cant challenge face to face, so prefer discriminate us at any possible way from behind. You Graeme failed as coach and teach rubbish, so you chose easy way it to keep away from usgood for your self-esteem bad for sport development. But true is you not care about sport. You even do not know about Olympic 2010, so no Judo athletes would represents NZ. It is show what kind pro you are. I told you about Olympic 4 years ago.
NZD99 1 year ago
@chchjudoschool
I challenge you Demitri, to
prove scientifically that Karate and aikido and japanese Jujitsu are not viable self defense systems,
I challenge you to name the city for your Olympics 2010 when I repeatedly advise you Olympics are London 2012.
I challenge you to stop annoying judoka with your Japanese Judo style hate comments, and just get on with what you do, prove its the best by winning personally or by your students, like every other coach attempts.
chchjudoschool 1 year ago
To appropriately challenge data I provide, for first learn to analyse, think and provide appropriate contra arguments. You are missing that a lot of this.
You are constantly speculating and failing provide any appropriate scientific data. For you disable to operate in that level, for reason of luck of education and mental ability.
To prove you ignorance and unprofessionalism most simplest way just follow official IOC links about Olympic 2010. It explains every thing.
NZSambo 1 year ago
@chchjudoschool Hello my friend. I know he is annoying, but I do not mind taking my time to answer him. It really do not affect me in any way. His impoliteness, rudeness, stupidity and lack of reasoning skills is evident in every post he makes. He even misunderstood my legitimate invitation to share our point of views personally. He do not know my background in science and Judo, and I do not want to pull rank, that's very un-judo-like! Best wishes and hail from Brazil!
loudenvier 1 year ago
If you wish challenge me you need to pay. I not working for free but if you willing to pay for my visit and host me I may come for week or so to teach you for free.
NZSambo 1 year ago
You believe but we know.
So it mean: your fantasy v sport science.
Guess who would win?
NZSambo 1 year ago
You're analyzing Okano's entry in a completely wrong fashion, narrowly focusing on a "fantastic" jumping entry which would make him vulnerable to a counter while not taking into account the whole movement. It also seems that you are not being able to communicate effectively in a foreign language. So my invitation to Brazil stands, and we can demonstrate in practice the theory we're discussing (in a very confusing way)
loudenvier 1 year ago
One more time:
1. point was made
2. It is not my fantasy but it is scientific research made in USSR
3. In USSR things I talking about is basic of Judo.
4. If you not like and think it wrong, than you need to proof with appropriate scientific research and justify in front Sport Science counsel most of them best USSR judokas and sambists.
NZSambo 1 year ago
@NZSambo you're living in a dream. Apart from Tmenov I didn't see any great Judoka coming from the USSR dissolved block for decades. And Tmenov has a very Japanese style Judo. If you fail to acknowledge that you're simply stupid (as your comments imply but I'm trying not to make a prejudgment of you). You should take some history lessons before talking. Didn't u know that the Japanese WIPED THE FLOOR in the Sambo nationals inside Russia taking gold in every category without never training Sambo?
loudenvier 1 year ago
It must be noticed that while Sambo players are said to be very good in newaza, they can't beat any top Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu player in newaza. Does that make BJJ superior to Sambo and Russian Judo in general? Does it make Brazilian sport science superior too? You should take some lessons on deductive logic, read Aristoteles, Platão and a few other great philosophers as to know what makes a sound argument and not simple fallacies... When u want to learn Judo, come to Brazil, I'll teach you gladly
loudenvier 1 year ago
Biomechanical comments was made. If you not capable to comprehends to bad for you.
It is called luck of education.
No Japanese understands biomechanics, so not surprise me you ignorant in sport science too.
Some Japanese develop personal skill, but they failed to identify movement. Japanese even cant name technique appropriately nether classify.
NZSambo 1 year ago
Do you see that you're just being a disrespectful fool? Can you show me anyone with a Phd in biomechanics that can beat an average Japanese Judoka in Judo? Lets make a deal, why don't you come to Rio and make a visit to this wonderful city? While doing so, please drop me an email so we can discuss this on the mat, and you can show me face to face what you're trying to imply. I really think you're not being able to express yourself clearly in a foreign language. Cheers.
loudenvier 1 year ago
Man you ignorant..
Have you look on medal stance?
Georgian, Byelorussians, Ukrainian, Russian, Uzbeks, Kazakhs, Armenians, Azerbaijani, Mongolian etc always top 10.
Guess why?
Correct coaching. Not Japanese bullshit.
It is product of decades of most advanced scientific research. Not sick fantasy of 17 y.o. boy from 19th century with little combat knowledge and governmental power.
NZSambo 1 year ago
Unbalancing is most important in entry.
It is must happening same time.
And if you can analyze video accurate you would see:
He rip 2 times for drill(seconds 6 & 7), but when hi go for actual throw (second 8) unbalancing act not apply rip (kuzushi ).
Man you arguing not with me, you arguing with sport science.
NZSambo 1 year ago
@NZSambo I believe you're seeing things that do not exist. Have u see the way he uses the tsurite to unbalance and make a perfect entry? I suggest you to get any instructionals on Judo since you seem to miss even the basic notions of the sport. I strongly advise you to get Isao Okano's Vital Judo books, both in grappling and throwing, so that you can learn some Judo and stop trying to analyze bio-mechanically while lacking serious know-how in physics. U don't even see the abominations you speak!
loudenvier 1 year ago
Man go to uny and get sport degree.
Jump is jump. NOT BACK STEP.
HIS BODY GOING UP.
It is develop ZERO gravity good point for countr attack.
if OPONENT SKILLFULL attacker would die.
Make us favour stick to that jumping error and make us win more.
NZSambo 1 year ago
few times on entry he have jump UP. Elevate his body up he stay on his toes as ballerina. (second 2, 8.53) it is means hi go up make wave, rock his body. I not see any slightly bented knee. May I blind
When you rock(jumping up) it is moment you die. If opponent good. If opponent not skill full you may get away with any bushtit.
Do I need biomechanicaly explain reason why jumping in entry is not practical and considered as error?
NZSambo 1 year ago
I see what you're referring to an error. You're wrong. Okano uses a kind of back-step in the entry and thats what you claimed to be a jump. The staying on his toe as a ballerina is in fact the correct way of doing o-soto-gari (search for Yamashita sensei instructional videos). You must also notice that he does the tsukuri (positioning for the throw) after/simultaneously kuzushi (unbalancing) preventing any opponent from countering him. Pay attention to his hara too, and tell me there's a mistake
loudenvier 1 year ago
I have make biomechanical explanation of error.
So far you not make any constrictive comments.
There is a BIOMECHANICAL principle and you (following Japanese) ignore them. I was kind and share with you people research in 100 university for 60 years, and bit crap of whole world. It is you call keep going blind and idolise Japanese, who teach bullshit, or sober up and apply science.
NZSambo 1 year ago
and if you not see errors - it is just indicate your professional level.
NZSambo 1 year ago
This is an Ad hominen argument and thus a fallacy. If I don't consider an error what you considered as such in one of the most technical judoka of all time this does not tell anything about my professional level, nor yours, it just tells that we differ in opinion regarding this. Okano's way of doing o-soto-gari is based on a speedy entry and his deviations from the "norm" in practice enhance the effectiveness of the throw. Can you use arguments citing timings on the video for accurate reasoning?
loudenvier 1 year ago
Usual excuse. You call red blue, and green as yellow and justify it as just deferent opinion
. Man be series.
Take off pink glasses.
NZSambo 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Best performance on net!!!
Finally I found some one who show it correctly!!!!
That is the way it should be drilled, not bushtit ballet drill most Japanese orientated coaches teaching.
NZSambo 1 year ago
Just one error - some times knee to straight in entry phase.
NZSambo 1 year ago
Are you really serious about correcting Okano sensei entry into o-soto-gari?!?!? (Just a reminder: he was a 3 time all-japan judo champion, the most difficult open weight Judo championship in the world, while only weighting aroung 75kg. Okano is considered one of the best technicians that ever lived, it is hard to believe anyone on the net could make any constructive criticism about his technique)
loudenvier 1 year ago
No matter who is who, if there is error there is error. No one perfect. No doubt he is good, but not God and
I am pro, not a hypocrite.
If you can afforded I could make biomechanical analysis and sand it to you.
NZSambo 1 year ago
Okano is not God, his o-soto-gari may have issues, although I believe it takes an extraordinarily knowledgeable Judoka to pass judgment on how he does a technique. His supporting leg is always slightly bent as he enters and then it straitens (along with the supporting foot) for added effect. The reaping leg (not blocking leg, this is an error inexperienced and experienced judoka commit) attacks uke's leg at the perfect spot (behind the knee) and reaps in the right, most effective direction.
loudenvier 1 year ago
Comment removed
NZSambo 1 year ago
now im a striker but judo got me really interested in grapplin
SoundwaveSuperior373 2 years ago 2
It makes wants go trainning Judo again.
Dudongo86 2 years ago 5
i just jizzed in my pants...
39silver 2 years ago 7
I love this technique but for me is very f^&ing difficult to do in randori.
judoka1976 2 years ago 3
I assume because of the opponent blocking or stiff arming on your entry to osoto... If so, notice how his body twists as he pulls the hikite and enters shoulder to shoulder, it has helped my osoto
bwalker077 2 years ago
I love Judo!
judomichaell 2 years ago 3
Master Okano ... Master of the masters...
He´s a samurai of JUDO !!!!!!
RMR369 2 years ago
beautiful.
wolfensden 2 years ago
judo is the shit
jaradlune2004 2 years ago
That's a great entry into o-soto! I'm gonna try it the next time I randori!
KillerSalmon 2 years ago
Kimura uses this as well
kkbighead 2 years ago
Kimura's o-soto-gari is very different than Okano's. Okano's o-soto-gari has the feel of harai-goshi sometimes, while Kimura's o-soto-gari is much more "classical". In the end, both did superb o-soto-gari's...
loudenvier 2 years ago
I noticed something weird about his right hand grip... Is he feinting a Tai-Otoshi with the right hand grip and slight hip movement? It looks like he feint a Tai-Otoshi then changed to Osoto-Gari to finish.
SafaFenoner 2 years ago
I don't think it looks like a tai-otoshi feint. In fact his action on the tsurite-hand (the right hand in the video) is characteristic of tsuri-komi-goshi, and may even look like a feint, but I don't think it is. All of Okano's main waza started with this same motion of the hands, and almost the same stepping pattern, and he could do his tokui-waza seoi-nage, or this o-soto-gari, or ko-uchi-gari and o-uchi-gari without uke anticipating which!
loudenvier 2 years ago
I can't comment on the politics discussed earlier, but I will say that this is an amazing judoka with the best O Soto I've ever seen.... This should be required watching for all judoka!
herkyoulees 3 years ago
wow great vid
kalikaputra 3 years ago
new judokas need to remember to get that kusushi thrust in before chopping the leg.
"Having no balance gives new balance"
wolfofthanclan 3 years ago
GREAT VIDEO!!!! Thanks!!
elmoski 3 years ago
Funkiest entry into osoto I've seen. Must try it!
squooge 3 years ago
Damn this dude is fast.
erick329 3 years ago
Bizarre entry for sure. His lifting hand is performing ouchi gari, then he under-hooks under the chin to complete the off-balancing.
I'd be curious to know if anyones actually landed that version in anything other than light randori.
For lesser judoka, attempting ouchigari then transitioning to osoto would probably be more realistic.
This version would take years of cultivtion, and incredible timing & tai-sabaki.
Thanks for the awesome vid!!
reprezents 4 years ago
Remember that this is Isao Okano, the greatest Judoka of all time. He won the All Japan Championship 3 times despite weighting only 75kg. This feat was never done before nor after Okano. In the complete footage he also did his trademark morote-seoi-nage, just a little more frequently than this o-soto, so I guess he may have used this in actual competition, but just less frequently than his unstopable seoi
loudenvier 4 years ago
The entry reminds me of tsurikomi goshi alot, but his tsurite hand switches to a downward pull once the throw starts.
I'm still of the mind to initiate ouchi, then change direction, to think of it as just one throw shows you just how good Okano was.
These videos will prove to be an invaluable tool in my development of a "real" osoto.
reprezents 4 years ago
how does Kimura rank in Judo?
vitorshaolin 3 years ago
If you're referencing to Masahiko Kimura from which the BJJ Kimura came then I'm not sure. He was not a higher rank because he was too much of a trouble-maker in his youth, and drank too much. Not a very political guy... He was amazing as a fighter though. I think he reached 5th dan or 6th... I will ask some knowledgeable sources about his official Kodokan rank.
loudenvier 3 years ago
whoat does his drinking problems have to do with my question. he was famous for fighting in Brazil especially the fight against Helio Gracie.
vitorshaolin 3 years ago
I've confirmed his Kodokan rank. He was Shichidan (7th dan) when he died. In Judo it's not only the athletics that matter, it's expected that the judoist have complete understanding of the principles, techniques, history and traditions of judo. The behavior outside the dojo is also important. That said, there's also the politics side of this. Kimura wasn't in good terms with the very people that could give him ranks (he refused to give back the All Japan championship flag).
loudenvier 3 years ago
But when it comes down to politics it also become unjust. Kimura received his 7th dan (shichidan) when he was 30 years old and remained as such for 47 years until his death. Okano sensei (the one in this video), probably the greatest Judoist of all time, is also rokudan (6th dan) for more than 40 years and he clearly deserves, given all possible requirements, the title of kudan (9th dan), but he opposed the Kodokan rulers many times in the past, so... politics again...
loudenvier 3 years ago
While not trying to offend you, but I think Isao would have a lot of competition from Kyuzo Mifune.
SpawnofHastur 3 years ago
First, your Hastur came from Marion Zimmer Bradley's Darkover series? :-) Second, we just can't compare because there was no such high-level competition at Mifune's time like the all japan championship... That said, Mifune is believed to be the greatest technician of all time in Kodokan Judo, but even other contemporaries of him were more effective in shiai. The greatness of Okano lies in he being one of the best technicians in Judo of all time, and certainly the greatest in shiai.
loudenvier 3 years ago
I got the name from The King In Yellow, but it was then used by H.P. Lovecraft and has since spread widely into almost all of literature.
Mifune was an incredible technician; I really enjoy the story of him throwing a sumo wrestler over twice his weight with sumi-otoshi because that shows the supreme amount of skill he must have had.
While it is difficult to compare them, I do think that if they had randori together, it'd be hard to say who'd come out on top.
SpawnofHastur 3 years ago
That's why my answer was completely evasive!!! :-) :-) :-)
loudenvier 3 years ago
Another factor is that Isao retired from professional Judo at the age of 25, while Mifune and Kimura kept on competing for quite a while after that. Because we only have examples of Isao in his prime, while Mifune and Kimura have examples later in life (Mifune toppled that sumo at forty, for example), it is even harder.
SpawnofHastur 3 years ago
Great version of o soto gari. I will be trying this one tomorrow in class.
kylesteinhauser 4 years ago
I've been thinking a lot about this technique lately, and finally got to try it out last night. Sadly, no video of the results - maybe next time ;)
ArneSostack 4 years ago
(contd)
What I did find is that this o soto gari feels a lot more related to the o uchi gari as I was taught it than the o soto gari I used to do. I think that's a good thing, really. Especially the chassé-like step where you replace the front (throwing) foot with the back foot. That's what I was taught to do in o uchi. Also, with the sweeping, circular movement, they become much closer, like brothers instead of second cousins.
ArneSostack 4 years ago
A bit like o soto guruma, maybe? Worth trying, I guess ;)
ArneSostack 4 years ago
I don't think it's anything like o-soto-guruma: in o-soto-guruma, the big wheel, uke is thrown over the hips of tori, in a grand circular motion, much like if he was running and had hit a fence, tumbling over it (the fence is tori's hip). In this o-soto-gari the direction of the throw and uke's falling pattern makes it very different from o-soto-guruma.
loudenvier 4 years ago
I was suggesting this mostly based on the way I learned o-soto-guruma - like o-soto-gari but with turning the hip further and reaping across both legs.
If you want to see what I mean, check out my (only) video, the second throw I make. It may not be the best example since the video was made after a month's break and I's feeling rather sluggish.
Also, I'm just a green belt (sankyu) in jiu jitsu, and our nage-waza training is based on Kawaishi's system.
ArneSostack 4 years ago
MAN!!!! I AM WRONG!!!! I'M SURE I READ O-GURUMA!!!! Sorry for that!!! But, then, back to myself, o-soto-guruma has to reap both legs, it attacks the far leg, Okano's o-soto-gari reaps the nearer leg, but it's so devastating that uke flies in the air... then I don't see the o-soto-guruma similarity.. at my academy we are taugh to do osotogari by entering deep with the hips and using the upper leg to reap, much alike Okano, but never like him :-)
loudenvier 4 years ago
I'll give you that what he's doing is obviously aimed at the nearer leg. At least it's obvious in the second-to-last throw in the clip. In that one, though, it doesn't seem like he's turning his hip as much as he does in the non-randori demonstrations - it's more like a "classic" o-soto-gari, though obviously very well executed.
ArneSostack 4 years ago
(contd.)
Back when I was a kid (I trained ju jitsu 20 years ago, recently started again after a 10 year break), I was taught to do the reaping in o-soto-gari with lower leg against lower leg, which is probably why I think this looks more like o-soto-guruma, in which I'd (when I get back in shape) turn the hip more and swing the leg back to get both legs, upper leg against upper leg.
ArneSostack 4 years ago
My sensei is Georges Mehdi, he lived together with Isao Okano when both of them attended university together. Mehdi's Judo is much influenced by Okano, who he considers the greatest Judoka/Judoist of all time. That's probably why he teaches us o-soto-gari using the upper leg, passing the hip deeply, reaping with the thigh (sorry again for confusing o-soto-guruma with o-guruma, it's probably because judonerd mentioned harai-goshi sometimes confused with o-guruma)
loudenvier 4 years ago
That sounds pretty sensible. I'm definately going to try out the difference next training.
I've been thinking a bit about the translation of gari - reaping. It makes me think of a circular motion, like the one you'd make with a scythe when reaping crops. My sensei was trying to get me to do o uchi gari with a circular motion rather than just swipe the leg with a backwards motion. Maybe that'll help my o soto as well. Something to experiment with for sure.
ArneSostack 4 years ago
Mehdi sensei also tells us to do this "scythe-like" move when doing harai-goshi, and he says that the reaping leg in o-soto-gari should work like the reaping leg in uchi-mata: "it's just like doing an uchimata to the other direction!"
loudenvier 4 years ago
Interesting - I'd expect the harai movement to be more of a linear movement. I (try to) do harai goshi by swinging the leg in a straight line, just like in de-ashi-harai I swing my leg in a straight line from outside to inside. I was trying to make the movements fit to the naming of the throw, I guess.
ArneSostack 4 years ago
(contd.)
Anyway, like I said, I'm not really a judoka, but our jiu jitsu club does have quite a bit of focus on nage-waza. I found this discussion very interesting, so thank you very much!
ArneSostack 4 years ago
Rereading your comment, we may have a difference in naming - what you're describing, I'd simply call o-guruma, which'd be a koshi-waza throw.
ArneSostack 4 years ago
this seems to be in that weird place in between osoto gari and harai goshi. opinions?
judonerd 4 years ago
Yes, that's how his o-soto was defined... But it is definitely an o-soto-gari because of the direction uke falls, but his body position seems a bit (or a lot) like harai-goshi, but I think it's not the hips that are at work to complete the throw... which brings us to ArneSostack comment: is this like o-soto-guruma?
loudenvier 4 years ago
thank you so much!! shows how the modern osoto gari is all out of whack. in this "dynamic" osoto gari he acutually steps back and drives with his back foot instead of stepping to the side.
A++ uchi komi!! thanks again awesome vid!
joshgates81 4 years ago
In fact, although his left foot goes to the back of his right foot he is always stepping forward, but not to the side... when completing the throw he sometimes jump on his own supporting foot and only then it is positioned to the side of uke... no matter it is always a devastating throw... And the kusuzhi? simply perfect!!!
loudenvier 4 years ago
yeah, thats what i said. not to the side!!
classic osoto gari steps to the side.
this one is more like a fencers step. driving forward
kindofa half harai goshi half classic osoto.
foot pointed 90 degrees not to the rear!
simply flawless!
joshgates81 4 years ago
OKANO!!!!!
joshgates81 4 years ago
That is damm sexy. Quite an amazing entry and finish!
kcsskillacan 4 years ago 2
!!???
baccili 4 years ago
How can a throw be sexy? You damn homo.
The throw is beautiful.
Oneshot112 4 years ago
I guess he was being sarcastic... and very funny indeed (at least I laughed a lot!!!)
loudenvier 4 years ago