AMNESTY FOR ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS/CNN

[anoland1]

the bad part about this is that thers hardly no americans in the fields mainly its mexicans

[aviatrix2]

I say we load every last one of them into cargo planes and bomb the Mexican border and Mexico city with them screaming and flailing all the way to the ground!!

[TeachingsofEvil]

@aviatrix2 hell yeah

[SupaFastVideos]

ugh lou is so dam racist

[catgumart]

In my opinion they are getting punished for being exploited..which is a no win game where does all the extra money that American employers save on the cheap labor go? It goes right into the circulation of capital, unless the employers don't spend their money..america benefits by the cheap labor more than we like to admit, The US workers shouldn't direct their hostility at the easy target of undocumented workers, but towards the more challenging goal of class equality, and economic justice

[catgumart]

I've been thinking it over more...and I really am truly convinced that the Mexican undocumented are really getting it from all sides...they come here to escape incredible poverty, to be paid far less than the low income people here, they are endangered by organized crime, their work for low pay lets american employers keep more money in their pockets, then the undocumented need to worry about the law, and finally they are resented by the workers in this country they are getting it from all sides

[catgumart]

I hope immigration becomes extremely easy and accessible for people from Mexico looking for better economic situation in the USA, I think most of the people on here who are angry with undocumented Mexican workers should realize that these people's lives are incredibly challenging, and that they are doing hard work for low wages BENEFITING AMERICAN EMPLOYERS, If you are angry about things being unfair, then you should direct your anger towards economic injustice, wealth and income disparity..

[tncdel]

To GET RID OF THE ILLEGALS:

Just round up a few thousand, as an example to the rest. Then FINE and FORCE-work them [on chaingangs, road crews, etc.] to pay off the fines before deporting them.

When the rest see what's happening, they will leave too.

Also, make the employers of illegals pay all deportation costs, NOT taxpayers. That will also serve as an example to other employers of illegals, who will quickly lay off the illegals working for them.

And then our own people can have the jobs.

[tncdel]

If Obama goes ahead with his plan to give amnesty, "free" medical care and everything else he has promised the almost 40 million illegals in the U.S.,

then they of course will invite all their relatives and friends to come here too.

So that we wind up having over 100 million of them here,

and a Third World economy like Mexico's.

If you don't want that to happen, then phone and message your federal reps and Obama's office, demanding NO amnesty and that they GET RID OF THE ILLEGALS INSTEAD.

[tncdel]

Calling an illegal an "undocumented immigrant" is like calling a burglar an "uninvited houseguest."

Those who entered our country illegally are INVADERS, who broke federal CRIMINAL law so doing.; hence they are criminals here illegally. Or illegals for short.

An immigrant enters our country in accordance with IMMIGRATION laws; hence: an immigrant.

If you call an illegal an immigrant, then you must likewise call the Nazis who invaded France in WWII "immigrants" too.

:)

[agentc73]

They abandon their country, and STEAL TRILLION of wages every year from LEGAL CITIZENS(incl LEGAL immigrants).

Then they DEMAND rights, they DEMAND citizenship, they DEMAND we learn THEIR language, waving a foreign flag in our streets?

Meanwhile, having NO respect for the LEGAL US citizens, US laws, the US Constitution, the US Flag, or the language of the land!!

When did slicing our own throats so we can cater to arrogant, THIEVING COWARDS become the right thing to do for the USA?

NEVER!!!

[catgumart]

theses ideas have nothing to do with "Utopia" or N. Korea, or Violent revolution, or dispossessing the rich, it confronts the fact that wealth disparity is unhealthy, poor people suffer now, and that there is no need for any one to have such incredible wealth, instead of a "Ceiling" I propose a "floor" so that nobody can go beneath even if they are not employed, they can stay healthy, safe have choices still there and that floor would help define the ceiling.

[lute760]

If you like Socialism and tatalitarianism so much,move to a different country! We don't need,nor do we want traitors like you in our country anyway!

[catgumart]

I like aspects of socialism, I am 100 percent anti-totalitarianism..wealth inequality is a form of totalitarianism, wealth=power .I'm for more equal distribution, The rich own the corporations, pay the masses to work in them and then collect profits from the people spending their wages on the products they were paid very meager wages to produce..it is unethical, people need more abundance in different areas, there are too many serious overlooked problems that stem from economic injustice

[lute760]

To take money away from someone who worked extremely hard for many years and did everything that our country requires them to do for success and then all of a sudden,take it away from them to give it to people who did not do what society requires for success(like affirmative action) is completely unethical and unamerican! American society is and always has been based on capitalism and it's what has built this great country to what it is.If you take this away,you take away the American dream!

[catgumart]

1. Because you are rich doesn't mean you have worked extremely hard for many years.

2.more people work extremely hard for many years and just barely get by than get rich.3. It is unethical to ignore poverty and lower class adversity 4. to require wealthy to pay higher taxes to create revenue for greater social abundance,equality and stability is totally fair. 5. The American dream is just that, a figment of the imagination a carrot on a stick, a small fraction are rich the rest struggle.

[lute760]

There are those who's wealth was trough inheritance,however,I was one who lived far below the poverty line for almost 30 years( having grown up in Watts CA) It wasn't until I decided that I was tired of living this way and made a conscious choice to go back to school,while working full time,that I was able to overcome poverty and enjoy the fruits of my labor.Anyone can do this if they are truly persistent.Why should anybody have a free ride! There is a difference between a hand up and a hand out

[catgumart]

I admire your fortitude, but I find fault with your premise "Anyone can do this if they are truly persistent". A lot of people cant do this, reasons why people are poor are multifactorial, many things must be taken into account, sexuality, characteristics,talents, family dynamics, gender, there are a lot of people who may not be gifted with your ability to endure, they may never get out of poverty and a system should not exist where anyone need suffer economic injustice in the now.

[catgumart]

a few of the terms that you use are quite loaded and put a misleading spin on my stance. "free ride" "hand out"...In some cases people really need a hand out, but I'm looking more for living wages, more horizontal, less authoritarian organization, more creative social programs that create more opportunity and accessibility for people of the humblest levels to be able to live more healthy, cultivated, elevated lives with as much unnecessary adversity dissipated through funding and awareness.

[aprillh]

To: catgumart -- you are exactly what's wrong with this country -- bleeding heart liberalism. Where is your sympathy for the 23 million unskilled American workers who can't find work because dishonest scumbag American employers hire ILEGALS?!? I grew up poor, put myself through college while working, paid off my student loans first, saved to buy a house, etc. Because greedy LIBERAL pol's didn't want regulation, we're in this economic mess! Loans were given to ILLEGALS without proof of ID!

[catgumart]

The bottom needs more, not some superficial materialistic status or need to quench some envious impulse, but more time,more resources,more security, health care,living environment, the most nutritious foods, art and self expression, and myriad concerns that need addressing based on peoples unique circumstance ...and also we need to make sure that wealth power doesn't bully or over step human equality, like a rich person intimidating a poorer person using money and resources as muscle.

[catgumart]

recognizing class inequality ,economic injustice and utilizing socialist tools and ideas to deal with it at the expense of unregulated capitalism, or to higher cost to the wealthy does not imply a communist coup d'etat or some brutal purging of the upper classes through violent revolution, it says the rich are too rich, money=power, freedom,status, and opportunity, it is time for the top to let go of some of it and let things get more balanced so that their is more going to the bottom.

[catgumart]

they overlook, minimize under estimate the difficulties and problems that go along with poverty, lower class, and under-privilege when people are victim to it, while at the same time are trying to hold on to everything they have so they don't end up poor, or under-privileged, this is relevant to this topic because Mexican Immigrants are victims of economic injustice, I know that the rich aren't all bad and the poor aren't all good, but the poor have more pressing issues that influence bad choice

[catgumart]

another thing that gets me is the smugness of people of higher class they really do not understand the adversity of being poor or farther down the class structure, there needs to be recognition on the oppressive nature of class, I have some ideas and I like to express my opinion, but I know outside of that I can do little else, but at least Im one more voice of recognition saying look here, see these people struggling, now look over their see that multi-million dollar mansion?

[basketballakev]

Typical socialist.

[catgumart]

To me that is a compliment...I do have strongly socialist views.. I do not see why Lou Dobbs cant understand that he doesn't want to see middle class people get poor, but doesn't seem so sympathize with people who are already poor now, also why does he feel that he middle class needs to bear the brunt of social, there are plenty of ultra rich, rich, well off affluent people who are perfect candidates to start paying higher taxes so that every one can be "middle class" or within a healthy range

[basketballakev]

I'll have you know, my family came from a third-world country in Southeast Asia. Fortunately, we were able to come to the U.S. and through hard work, we establish ourselves as an upper middle class family. To claim that all rich people are "smug" is ignorant. I worked my ass up the social ladder. If people don't want to work as me or anyone else, why should I have to pay for their unwillingness?

[catgumart]

1.Not all rich people are smug, but people who are well off have a hard time identifying and sympathizing with people in states of poverty now, even if they had once been poor 2. When you say hard work that is loaded word, lots of people work and work and stay poor or just barley make it.3.working ones ass off isn't healthy, people need rest, time for contemplation, to live with ones nose to the grindstone is a sorry state of affairs.3,Different people have different characteristics

[basketballakev]

I don't care if people have different characteristics. You say working hard isn't healthy but how about sitting on your ass? There is no substitute for someone working hard.

[catgumart]

there are areas of gray that can be found, if someone needs to stay at home, then they should have quality of life, self determination, and options available, then there are people who might nor be able to handle a heavy work load for one reason or another, devise types of jobs where they can get a living wage with lesser hours, Working hard is great if it is gratifying work and you have time for keeping yourself healthy and well rested etc..but the opposite is true if these needs are not met.

[catgumart]

different people have different characteristics, not everybody fit the same size shoes, people have different paces, not everyone can be as competitive, Social Ladder? The fact that there is a social ladder based on how much you have is unfair and unethical because it is an exclusive system based on how much stuff one has accumulated not on a persons individual merit or uniqueness and intrinsic human value. When you the rich invest socially, you benefit by having a stable abundant society.

[basketballakev]

It is not an exclusive system. Anyone has the potential to rise above the cream of the crop. The human spirit is undeniable.

[catgumart]

The human spirit? What is the human spirit and how do you measure it? This metaphor is too abstract , we are talking about physical life here on planet earth, most corporations and hierarchies don't care that much about the human spirit, and there are many ways in which people and groups maintain policies of exclusion, the first one I think of of is based on race, economic class, gender. No matter how noble a person may be that doesn't mean they can rise above all and any obstacles

[basketballakev]

That's why I said affirmative action is in place.

[basketballakev]

Do you know what affirmative action is? Affirmative action refers to policies that take gender, race, socioeconomic status or ethnicity into account in an attempt to promote equal opportunity.

[catgumart]

Yes I know what they are, they aren't the only answer, they do some good, they are better than nothing but they don't reach the deeper causes they don't confront the root problems they are minimally effective,

[basketballakev]

Minimally effective huh? That's why Obama is our current president.

[catgumart]

that Obama is president is an improvement, but that doesn't change the fact that there is incredible wealth disparity, that millions of human beings of all ethnic/racial identities are living in a state of misery and limitation and exploitation NOW, and that the main contributing factor is economic, and you can't convince me that peoples right to be rich surpasses peoples right to be healthy, free, have some degree of comfort, security, self determination, when wealth is the oppressing factor.

[basketballakev]

But who's to blame? The government provides so much for these people with medicaid, affirmative action, welfare etc. What needs to be done is to fix the ROOT of the cause, which are those families that are unstable.

[catgumart]

Blame..there are so many contributing factors, to try to pin blame is ridiculous, finding the root causes...eventually the root cause is not enough money or resources flowing through the circuit of humanity, the rich aren't to blame for working hard, but gaining wealth is not simply a matter of working hard, there are a lot of ways that when you get to a certain economic level you can increase your wealth at a faster pace through investment etc...

[basketballakev]

So don't condemn one group of people for the faults of another. If you want to fix this problem how about you fix the ROOT of the cause which are these families who have parents that don't even know how to provide basic care and provide for their children. There's is no oppression whatsoever. This is the 21st century. If you you are willing to work hard, you will definitely succeed. I've heard of plenty of illegal who went to great schools, who become doctors, lawyers etc. Stop your Nazism!

[catgumart]

Nazism? You shouldn't throw that word around so carelessly. I think Nazism is is repulsive. At some point the wealthy need to look at how much they have and what effect their huge portion of the pie has throughout the social fabric. But you don't witness the oppression because you are (as you said) a person of means. People who have money experience life from a totally different perspective, you cannot understand it unless you are living it, and don't think that because it is the 21st

[catgumart]

Don't think that because it is the 21'st century that human nature is any different than it has ever been. All over the world there are very serious human rights violations. Torture,corruption,abuse and exploitation of the poor, disabled, women children..here in America we are about one notch above all this type of stuff. It would only take a little bit of laziness in honesty and compassion and awareness for people here to slip back into old bad habits in my opinion.

[catgumart]

Many of the people that have children are still children themselves, if not that then they are young, naive, or have lived in oppressive lower class circumstances all there lives and can't really do much better for what they have, though they may have to differing degrees all the potential as people born in positions of greater advantage, there is just too much adversity coming down in too many different ways.

[basketballakev]

Well if you want a classless society head over to North Korea where you can find your radical Utopian views.

[catgumart]

North Korea is not an accurate model for what I think would be a healthy free equal state, actually it is far from it...North Korea is no Utopia, and my views are not Utopian. My views acknowledge the flaws of how American society is today with too much capitalism, not enough attention to aspects of class and not enough money spent for creating a level playing field, I am AGAINST human rights abuse unlike N. Korea, I like the Green party , Our country today is like a plutocracy,

[basketballakev]

Really now, even with all these programs such as affirmative action and welfare, you're telling they are vastly oppressed to the point where succeeding in incapable? Your logic is so flawed.

[catgumart]

I say our affirmative action programs and welfare programs are not adequate-

[catgumart]

I respectfully disagree with you, I think that your opinion is based on a fear of loss and worry that you are being held to blame somehow, and the topic makes you defensive.

[minaburd93]

YOUR ideas are so flawed. When people say ignorance is bliss, they are not wrong! People who work their asses off aren't always rich. Look around you... Surely someone is working harder than you can imagine and their quality of life is still terrible. If you were working at McDonalds with no health insurance and you were diagnosed with cancer, what would you do? Work harder in order to make money to pay your medical bills. That's a joke... People need a break once in a while and p-amnesty is it

[basketballakev]

And if you think the poverty is horrific here, you should check out some of the other third world countries in Southeast Asia. If you don't like the principles here and want to take away the American Dream, get the hell out of here.

[catgumart]

I agree poverty is much worse there, but I don't believe we should compare ourselves to a worse off country, and then ignore the suffering here, you aim for better, you don't say "well it's worse over there" and then be complacent to economic injustice here. Also what happens when you wake up from the "American Dream"? You really want to cling to a dream and let reality pass on by? To say "love it or leave it" that is a catch slogan but it is not realistic, and this country is meant for freedom.

[basketballakev]

This your though process: I will empower a government to take money from people that have more money than I do and spend it on things that benefit me, because even though I am unwilling to do the things that people that have more money than me have done I am jealous of what they have...

[catgumart]

Not jealous, but genuinely in need, to bring equality to people in terms of resources, education, living environment, self determination, labor, amount of work, health care, transportation, I dont think that the rich should be dispossessed, just that there ought to be an economic floor, that people cannot go below, and that there equality and freedom and safety and quality of life at all levels, this isn't the way it is now, now there are severe problems associated with economic injustice.

[catgumart]

Not envious, but in need and truly ENTITLED to quality of life.

[catgumart]

Why are middle class people so against the poor, they should be thinking about preventing "the state of poverty" Middle Class don't want to be poor, we need to put ceilings on wealth, think of ways to structure society horizontally, also the term "Hard Working" needs to be examined, it is a loaded word, and it is used thoughtlessly, it is filled with implications "work hard" , "life is hard work" " work is the most important etc..I have a big problem with this term "hard working"

[catgumart]

Im pro amnesty, I think people have a right to escape from third world poverty in search of a better life. WE point out the illegal immigrants

who have committed crimes, but look at all the white people who commit crimes and belong to gangs. I think ultimately the problem is poverty, and human rights these people see how much better they can live right across that imaginary line and If I were a destitute Mexican I would be doing the same thing. Life is hard for the poor here, but there, Whoa..

[MetGuy9966]

The US-Mexican border is "...that imaginary line..." This is wrong-headed, dangerous thinking.

People don't have a RIGHT to leave their country. Please review the Bill of Rights to see what your rights AS AN AMERICAN CITIZEN really are.

[catgumart]

people should be free to move around the planet freely to seek better circumstances, and usually they can (if they have money) but poorer people seeking refuge from war or economic injustice, I think we should make special provisions for those people and they should get priority over people who just feel like relocating for change of scenery, and just because people don't have certain legal rights doesn't mean that the law is just, or fair, in all circumstances or at all, the law can be wrong

[MetGuy9966]

Sure people should be free to move... LEGALLY!

If you think the law is unfair or unjust... change the law.

Otherwise, breaking the law, and extending the Rights of US citizen to others is just plain wrong headed.

Mexico needs to take care of their own people and not promote their racist policies towards Mexicans of Native American heritage. Read Mexifornia.

[catgumart]

the law does needs to be changed, The immigration policies should be devised to accommodate the needs of poor Mexican and Central American immigrants, I think we need to make a fair and liberal immigration policy for them, as well as finding ways to elevate the quality of life of the lower classes here in America, there are a number of obstacles that prevent poorer people from organizing,changing the law is no easy matter, it requires skills and resources that aren't accessible to underclass

[catgumart]

Most people who are poor havn't had had an environment where in they can cultivate social skills and organizing power, that goes for people of all ethnic groups, Lou Dobbs, I understand that the Middle class have their particular set of problems, but why take it out on people of lower classes instead of looking up at the Wealthy? They say we are hard working middle class people, but what about the hard working lower class people? We need to exalt the valleys and make the hills and mountains low.

[basketballakev]

At the expense of the American people? Sure everyone deserves a better life, but at what expense? You answer that question then maybe I'll reconsider pro-amnesty but right our economy is in a deep shit hole.

[catgumart]

For one thing the expense needs to be shared, the richer you are the higher percent you should pay, (a lot of the rich have made their money from the labor of poor, overworked people, probably living in other countries.) We need to all the way around dedicate more attention to poverty and class, republicans and rich people and smug comfortable people TOTALLY minimize and overlook the difficulties and trials of being poor and lower class, they think everyone is getting the same...LOL

[basketballakev]

That's BS. The United States was not founded on those principles. You are saying that if one group is to work harder than another, then no matter how hard that group works it is totally meaningless because that group ends up paying more for the other groups unwillingness.

[catgumart]

there many poor working class people who have worked incredibly hard for all their lives yet remain stratified within the lower classes there are many rich people who have gained wealth by chance, luck,inheritance, or dishonest modes, many have worked hard but they have not necessarily worked harder than poor people, I believe that the freedom to hold wealth doesn't surpass the freedom to not live in circumstances of need, when economics oppression is just as tyrannic and merciless as monarchy.

[basketballakev]

And what evidence do you have? If you want anecdotal evidence, have you seen the pursuit of happiness? How about the numerous professional athletes who came from "ghettos?" How about some scholars who came from disadvantaged areas? We have many programs for the poor/disadvantage like affirmative action, welfare etc. If this is not enough to get them by, then I don't know what will.

[catgumart]

It is true some people make it out through a combination of skill,character, talent and luck, but it is a small percentage, lots of times they are irrevocably scarred from growing up in such pain. we have not found an adequate solution to poverty and class, part of the problem is that there is too much of a disparity, too much concentrated wealth in one small place, it needs to be fairly and evenly distributed in a way that helps uplift people. Our welfare systems have not been well devised

[catgumart]

You make the assumption that lower stratum people are poor because they don't work hard and that isn't true. If someone doesn't have employment/occupation it doesn't indicate that they don't work, every movement you make is is an expending of energy, It takes work to clean your house, to get groceries, care for kids, keep fit,keep mentally stable,to communicate with quality with other people , many things take much hard work and effort and are neither occupation nor employment.

[catgumart]

it really is a concoction a construct of our homo sapien brains, there really is no line in the dirt that says Mexico here, America there, that only exists because we say it does, we could change our minds and say it doesn't exist anymore and that would be the end of it.

[MetGuy9966]

You've made a strong case for One World Government. How about you get approval from the other homo sapiens before you act on this strange, destructive scheme of yours.

[catgumart]

There is nothing crafty or secret about these ideas so it isn't really a scheme, if anything is destructive it's wealth and income disparity that bring excess and extravagance to the rich, stuck,narrow,trapped,frozen impotence to the middle and the horrible vicissitudes of poverty to the poor. The terrain of class and how we think about humanity needs to be leveled, and I'm sure if we can go to the moon, make clones in a test tube then we can recognize how important economics are to equality

[catgumart]

pro amnesty

[Vanberg03]

San Francisco- Ramos, an illegal immigrant from El Salvador, was arrested on June 25 and subsequently charged with fatally shooting Anthony Bologna and his two oldest sons during a traffic encounter in the Excelsior district.

[mydodgers1]

This went down in defeat... punish Employers that hire illegals now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[saprissa9]

how bout this let da ilegals without criminal records stay n da ones wit dirty records gets da boot huuh how bout dat this country was made by ilegals who came here seekin a better future evryone knows dat y r u people bothering todays imigrants so much

[yezeniah]

If you people want illegals to be legals why stop the Amnesty? STOP BEING RACIST!

[littlebrat672]

It's not racist to not want OUR tax dollars going to these fucking illegals! Go to hell vezeniah.

[keith19633]

racist! we want our tax dollars, to go somewhere, anywhere, but to these dam anchoir bastards! !

[youayntfresh]

the war on iraq

[8Anya8]

What first needs to be done is the completion of a fence,then deportation,when these two things are in effect the possessions that these illegals have acquired should be confiscated for unpaid back taxs.

The only way that our laws will begin to be enforced will be when we respond on a state level and not wait for Washington's sellouts to do what is right.

[jaleo56]

-President Bush: I voted for you twice but, with this amnesty bill, you no longer have my support.

-Don't gloat libs...I will never vote for a democrat to any office or an independent. They dont represent anything I believe in.

[LordZeta13]

I agree that illegal immigration its an important issue, but I am Mexican here to warn you about something far more serious...Black on White crime...how do we stop it??..take a look at my favorite videos, most of them tend to do with Black on white crimeWARNING: those vids are not for the faint of heart

[hsfkjl]

LordZeta13, how about you worry about your own people committing hate crimes agaist blacks in the Los Angeles area every day? Yea, forgot about that didn't you? Did you also forget that they're more hispanic/latino gang members than blacks, what about how hispanics make up the largest percentage in prisons in the U.S.? How about how hispanic/latino women have the highest birth rates? Go take over another country, hypocrite.

[navy57]

John Boehner is 100% correct. George W. Bush has lost me with this amnesty bill. These people aren't immigrants. They're criminals.

Whenever Congress attaches the word "reform" to something it'll be anything but a reform. Be especially wary if "bipartisan compromise" is praised for being the triumph of reason over partisanship. What it means that the Democrats got 95% of what they wanted. The only things that have been compromised are the Republicans' integrity and your rights and earnings.