Who makes the longswords that you use? I'm trying to decide on a maker at the moment. The second one shown at the end looks like an Albion Liechtenauer and the first like an Albion Meyer. I'm in the US so Arms & Armor is looking like an attractive option at the moment as well; any comments? Sword buyers forums don't have enough people seriously interested in HEMA.
I have a Ensifer (Jan Chodkiewicz) feder myself and I like it a lot. It feels great and has some flex so you can thrust but not to much so you can still do binding techniques. But it's made in Europe so it may be to much in shipping costs. I have tested friends Albion swords and they also feel awesome so if you have the money I can recomend them. I don't know much about Arms & Armor so I can't help you there.
I like how fantastically aggressive you guys are in training. I've seen a lot of longsword sparring on youtube, but yours have the most aggression by far.
@kobuksonhwacha : Gee, you really do play too many video games. Katanas are just as heavy as longswords of this length because their blades are thicker. Also, Samurai were primarily trained as bowmen and horsemen, and learned the art of swordsmanship on the side. Knights were trained as horsemen and swordsmen, and EVERYONE was trained with a bow.
Time and time again I see the longsword being more graceful and versatile than the katana.
@kobuksonhwacha : And where did you get that completely unattainable percentile from? How can you properly measure dedication amongst all warriors, unless it is blatantly obvious. There are many more Eastern Martial artists than Western, because the tradition was passed down and kept longer for the Japanese, while by the time the modern age had come, the art of the sword had diminished into gentlemen duels. Most HEMA arts have been long lost and until recently, rediscovered.
@kobuksonhwacha : There's also the Manuals by many masters such as Meyer, Talhoffer, and more, where groups like ARMA practice only techniques revolving around what the manuals describe.
@Halofreakanoid Alright,well, this conversation has now incurred enough miscommunication, butthurt, and vehement subjectivity that there's little point in continuing. It's become obvious that you're less concerned with defending Western martial arts and more so with ripping the uneducated samurai-worshiping hoi polloi a new one. Nowhere in ANY of my comments did I state that Japanese, Korean, Eastern, or ANY other variety of sword was either superior or inferior as a whole to the longsword.
@kobuksonhwacha : My foremost concern is defending the arts of my ancestors, but I'm more of an attack kind of person when it comes to arguments. I never said that you considered either of the weapons inferior, but you said false facts of the longsword. That's what I was arguing against and comparing that to that of the tachi and katana.
@Halofreakanoid Your issue seems to be that the elegance and efficacy of Eastern martial arts are greatly exaggerated by popular belief, whereas medieval European techniques are inaccurately viewed as clumsy, the weapons little more than large can openers, when in reality they possess a sophistication equal if not greater than their equivalents. I agree with this notion wholeheartedly. However, I do not agree with making across-the-board statements claiming the superiority of one or the other.
@kobuksonhwacha : I do not claim one in ultimately superior over the other. Each has different uses that are better in different situations. The katana is an superb cutting weapon, more so than the longsword, but it falls short in most other attributes, as it was a specialized weapon.
Your very first comment, you tried to compare the two different warriors if they had the same skill level, and then proceeded to claim the Samurai had better skill.
@Halofreakanoid What longsword, specifically? There are 12 different types. We talking a beastly XIIIa war sword or a very slender XIX longsword (which, by the way, is, on average, a half inch wider than the widest katana). The katana was no better at cutting than almost any longsword. As a friend of mine says: curved swords keep edge alignment better. The sword's not cutting better; you're just screwing up less. This is true of all curved swords, not just the katana.
@ChishioAme : I wasn't talking about width, I was talking about thickness. I was also talking that the styles of longsword used in this video, XIIa, XX, etc..
Those at the pinnacle of longsword design. I understand that there are many different types of longswords that have different specialties.
Also, a curved blade DOES cut better if you draw your cut. It's not just about the edge alignment. You can test this out in the kitchen. There's a reason why many modern knives are curved
@mechupanlamonda At what time? The smallsword's popularity was from the mid-17th to the late-18th century; the saber enjoyed a similar, if longer period of popularity as a battlefield weapon. However, during the earlier years of firearms, the 14th-15th centuries, longswords like the XIX were still very much in use on the battlefield and in civilian duels, though the rapier quickly took over the latter aspect.
To reduce further confusion, when Halofreakanoid and ChishioAme are using roman numbers when they are refering to different swords. They don't refer to the century the swords are used but to the oakeshott typology. This typology is a tool so that you can specify swords a lot better, not the best but still usefull.
So a XIX longsword would be a longsword with a blade described as something close to this statement:
"Broad flat blade, edges running nearly parallel to a sudden sharp point, with narrow well-moulded fuller in the upper third. The section is a flat hexagon—i.e. the blade is flat, with edges clearly chamfered, as in Type XVIa. There is a well-made ricasso, almost 2.5-3" long."
@kobuksonhwacha : People commonly think of European style swordplay as "hack until they die", while a greater majority of people consider Samurai arts to be kin with those of an ultimate warrior. I see it all around me. Your comparison makes no sense.
@kobuksonhwacha : People commonly think of European style swordplay as "hack until they die", while a greater majority of people consider Samurai arts to be kin with those of an ultimate warrior. I see it all around me. Your comparison makes no sense.
@kobuksonhwacha : I was referring to the tachi as being a longsword-LIKE weapon, as in comparison. A two handed sword meant for dueling/war. Yes, tachi and longsword dimensions did change, but the common ones that are to be compared are the medium weight tachi vs the equivalent longsword.
@kobuksonhwacha : My opener is the pent up rage I have against people who think the Samurai were some amazing fighting warrior, when they were actually half assed when you are taking many other nations into account.
My point is that you incorrectly stated that Samurai were specifically trained in swordplay, which they were not. Tachi were used by cavalry, and the katana was a personal defense weapon, almost unused on the battlefield, for a reason.
@kobuksonhwacha : . You also incorrectly stated that the longsword is somehow slow, which it is anything but. The German longsword is just as fast as the average tachi, and has more reach, stabbing power, and has two edges and a cross style guard that allow for extremely fast counters, much faster than one can do with a single edged blade.
Uhm, samurai armor wasn't made out of bamboo. Also, there are special longsword techniques for close combat, search for halfswording (or Halbschwert).
A Katana is also a social construct; the same blade worn in a diffrent way is called something else. A Katana needs to be kept on the left side, with the blade facing up. Only a member of the Warrior "class" in Japan could wear it (So even if you had a Loan-Sword Ashigari the way he would wear a tachi or katana would be diffrent). Katana's are overall better weapons then most European swords in regards to cutting and stabbing ability. A sword like the one shown in this video is for crushing.
@pythag123 That would be because those are training swords, designed _not_ to kill the person they're hitting. (Note how they're floppy.)
An actual longsword with a tapered, 34 inch blade has virtually identical cutting dynamics to a katana. There are some differences which you can argue, but in the end, IT'S A SWORD. It cuts people, and it wouldn't be used historically if it wasn't able to do that. A weapon is a weapon - the important bit is the six inches behind it.
Not all swords are equal, its like saying a "a gun is a gun" even though you know a Lee Enfield is a worse gun then an AR15. East Asian swords are better then European ones (espc. Korean ones). The armies of fedual Japan didn't use head on charges with mounted troops, their sword were designed to provided enough shock damage to brake pole-armed units, European armies had lances and horse to cause massive shock, in Asia they relied on their swords, Asian swords deal more damage, fact.
@pythag123 Lee Enfield is a worse gun than an AR15??? OK, tell you what - I'll take an SMLE and you take an AR15. We'll stand off at about 500 yards and take shots at each other. Let's see who hits first. :) I'd rather have the bolt action, long barreled .303 than a .223 with a shorter barrel at that distance. So the lesson is, it's all about context. Same with swords.
I do understand the point your trying to make though. Do I have it right: If two people fight with swords, and one of them knows fencing and the other does not then the weapons they use are irrelevent, the one with more knoweldge and skill will win. The problem is that historically sword combat done between the social elite, all of whom were at least somewhat trained in fencing.
@pythag123 Gah. Sorry. I didn't see your second comment before I posted.
What I'm trying to say is that combat doesn't depend on any one single factor. Combat is dangerous. Imagine a skilled opponent blinded by the sun while his untrained adversary is not. Then it doesn't matter whether he have a stick, rock, or the biggest sword known to man, the skilled guy still might get disabled. A slight edge in wounding against unarmored targets is useful, but not as much as some make it seem.
@pythag123 I will, however, agree the Japanese swords have an axe-like penetration effect that is actually quite interesting - they stumbled on a very good technique and kept it. However, the straight bladed ones you see in KDF have their own advantages in terms of versatility, even if they lack the curved blade that makes such deep wounds. In the end, the ability to cut slightly deeper is a moot point when you're talking about swords that are big enough to decapitate someone.
@pythag123 : You're kidding right? The tachi is a horrible stabbing weapon. ALL curved blades are poor in the thrust. The longsword of this kind is primarily designed for trusts and cuts, NOT crushing.
You also don't give enough credit to European swords, who had already surpassed the Tachi's technology 2000 years before it, with the Celts.
hi kohutuvic!grwat sword fighting! is a longsword(two handed) at a disadvantage against shield with arming sword or axe(one handed)? and have you guys tried to spar with a person using such weapons?tanx
Lol I love the music from The Witcher in the vid, very appropriate. Was nice that that game went to great lengths to see that it used the actual forms and style of longsword dueling. And of course the reaction from the unwashed masses was: THAT DOESNT LOOK LIKE REAL SWORDFIGHTING!
Always the same discussion about Katana and Longsword X-D. Guys, take fencing masks and spar with each other and you´ll know for yourself what advantages and disadvantages both weapons have.
And to kohutovic:
I´m pleased and impressed you show true martial arts. It looks skilled, fast, powerful and you both definatly know what you are doing.
All the best wishes from Germany and my Sparring Group:
You are welcome for a friendly bout.
Ask Zukuru, for more information, we would be honored.
One thing that's seemed to have escaped everyone is that the Thegus0 fellow was most likely trolling because he saw that if he insulted you all, he'd be taken as a serious commentator on swords. He's a youtube boob. Some people are ignorant and, don;t care if they are proven wrong. They just want to attack and, get a thrill reading all of the people who sincerely want to debate, while they want to harass and, insult.
Great clips. Thanks for uploading and sharing. Inspirational too. I love the concepts that i'm learning from my Guro in Lichtenauer training. Hoping someday that i can bring my training to this level. :)
The funny thing is that this super samurai masamoto? himself said you have to use the best weapon you can get and fought afterwards because of competition with a long stick... everything is in the fighter not in the weapon.... I can't stand these this is better that is better discussions
There is maybe a easier way but I would download the video to my harddrive using w/e I find by google "download youtube video". Then I would be able to slow it down with my usual media player.
Yes, but we practise a higher Vom Tag with the cross guard at eye level. This protects against the zwerch hau and allows longer reach with the zorn hau. We found the blade hits the face whn kept that low. What do you think?
@gavintrebuchet While the Vom Tag held at eye height is seen in period artwork and is present in Japanese sword arts, the German fechtbucher show only the above the head or on the shoulder variants, and of course Zornhut from Meyer and others. Once you get used to it, the shoulder version is just as safe, making the Master Cuts very quick. As long as your arms are extended into Langort during the cut, your reach will be the same. :)
@Kunstdesfechtens I can attest to this. I initially was reticent to come out of Phlug as my basic defensive guard but once I came out of my shell Vom Tag over the shoulder is very effective and equally strong in the defense as it is in the offense. It also serves well if you are short like me when trying to fight single time like you should lol.
@Kunstdesfechtens I've always found the shoulder level vom tag to be far more natural and powerful than the 'walkie-talkie' ARMA vom tag for the push-pull cutting mechanics that I was taught. I suppose if you're swinging the sword, the latter might work slightly better.
that looks quite more agile and technical than it is often depicted in those katana vs longsword comparisons... (where the longsword is shown as a brute-force weapon)
@gurkfisk89 i believe i have it now after training with it for a while if im doing it right you wind from a left high gaurd down and around into the head strike its amazing how easy it is once you get it. these guys are amazingly fast though i dont even compare.
Se strikes, you avoid, strike his blade out of the way and hit him on the head. How:
You strike the blade with the long edge, in a krumphau like move. You turn your sword back to a nebenhut or tail guard and then cut with the short edge to the head. Something like that, if they do what I think they do =)
extend the arms to a krumphau. Pull back my right hand to turn the sword backward and get the short edge pointing upwards. And then start tu puch my right hand forward/upwards while at the same time pull my left hand back.
Oh, it's hard to describe in text. I want to say "like this" and show you. But I hope you can make something out of my comments. And I hope what I tried to explain is what they did.
I agree with Emhilradim. Why the hell is this fantastic video demonstrating the skill and technique of european swordplay being polluted with a couple of weeaboo trolls? let's ignore them. they are either trolls, or ignorant and close-minded. Finally, from what I have seen, the similarities between Asian MA and Euro MA are many. kenjitsu and KdF, messer and wakizashi, judo and medieval wrestling. Humans are the all the same, so the ways to kill them are always the same, in germany, or in japan.
I feel bad because I may be one of those to blame for some of these weeaboos. If i see someone state that european swords are heavy and slow I often refer to this video because it's a very good video that shows that just as you say, KdF and kenjutsu are very similar. I never meant for the weeabos to take the conversation to this place and I'm really sorry for that.
@gurkfisk89 hmmm now that you put it that way........
you make a good point. We gotta educate people about WMA, and this video is one of the best I've seen. No need to apologize for that. Especially not to me xD
either way, haters gonna hate. It sucks to spam the comments of this video with debate, but to use the famous quote: "If not now, when?"
one thing I have noticed lately is how on just about every video about swords, there are people mentioning HEMA. I think that's a very good thing ;)
Apart from educational purposes; I'm often pretty amused when some katana plonkers watch this one and see that those training props weigh as double as katAnaS, but can be easily moved with shocking speed. "Light==Quick; Heavy==Slow" this logic gets apparently screwed, causing disorientation in their anime filled brains. :-D
@Protherium Besides. A longsword should only weigh in just over 3 lbs. I don't really get why people are arguing over this subject anyway. They're completely different swords. Though personally, I lean more towards the european longsword. It's a one hander, a two hander, a short spear and a blunt pick. Versatile. A katana ... cuts.
@TheFrostedLlama The weight thing always got me too. Because the profile of a longsword may be broader it seems that it must weigh more than the more slender katana without remembering that material must be either moved or removed from BOTH edges from a longsword and that the katana actually has more mass at the back of the blade because of the added thickness of not forming a second edge.
The weights are actually comparable while the longsword has greater length and second edge... nasty...
@TheFrostedLlama A katana thrusts plenty well against human beings and textile armour, it's just pretty shit against heavier armour because of the point geometry.
@halfassedfart Oh yeah, you'll get no argument from me. I was mostly dwelling on it's ability to get through european armour.Now, what I really want to see, is a legitamate face off between Japanese Budo and German Kunst des Fechten. Not to see which is better, because it's fair to say that the fighting arts are comparable, and actually have a lot in common with their advanced techniques. I would just love to see the dynamic between the two, and how the fighters would adapt to the opposing style
@TheFrostedLlama Koryu kenjutsu, you mean. I'm not sure what that'd prove beyond determining which group has the better individual fighters, HEMA is far too fragmented for any one person to be representative of the greater population.
@halfassedfart I meant it as more of a generalization. Not just pitting the two fencing styles against one another, but the entire systems of combat. To exclusively fence while sparring is like only having having missionary sex your whole life. And it's not to prove anything at all really. The interest in it for me, is to see how students of each school would adapt within their systems in order to combat the other more effectively. If that makes any sense? Maybe not. lol : )
@halfassedfart As far as drawing people from whatever groups or affiliations. I wouldn't know. I do look into HEMA, ARMA etc but often find infighting and a lot of personal politics. You're right, it is all very fragmented, which can be a bit discouraging at times.
@halfassedfart And I don't mean that as an insult to people who do exclusively fence. Practicing skills in exclusivity is important. I'm simply a fan of bouts where you use everything at your disposal.
@TheFrostedLlama I dunno, it tends to resemble one of those 'my style has a bigger penis than your style' arguments. Whatever the result, it doesn't detract from the fact that both arts have value, but that point will be lost on many.
It would definitely be interesting, no doubt about that. I'm guessing that there'll be a lot of wrangling over rulesets as well though.
Seriously, getting into a fucking debate over Asian vs European weaponry... Why don't you all just relax, and go about your ways. If you don't like European weaponry, that's great, keep it to yourself and go elsewhere. Likewise if you don't like Japanese weaponry, also keep that to yourself.
No need for 10+ pages of argumentative comments on this video.
@73aussie1 Well, the nachreisen techniques, as shown here, yes. Good distance management is good distance management. Besides, kenjutsu is a much more apples-to-apples comparison b/c it covers a full range of body targets as well as grappling techniques.
You won't find much in the way of zwerchhauen, krumphauen, and other short edge strikes in kenjutsu, however. They're pretty much unique to A) two-edged blades, and B) German longsword.
Two handed swords swing too slow they said. With the speed he made to the other guys head, you would be dead before you even knew it. So cool, I wish there was somewhere around here that taught European martial arts.
@Garrettcore For comparison shopping, you can also try the Austin Swordsmanship group on Facebook. They train on Sundays, and are a beginner study group supported by our school (Sword to Sword) out of Houston.
No, you won't become a master overnight, but at least they know what a proper Ochs guard looks and feels like against multiple strikes. ;)
And again, pretty much as I expected, no japanophile can back up their claim "it's proven scientifically that katAna is superior". Plenty of --I've seen, I heard, my master saw, scientists has revealed, it's proven, it's a fact!!!!-- but actually just hot air. Ser un charlatán, palabrero! Leeres Geschwätz! Пустая болтовня!
Any claim has to be backed up with books/research papers/references to experts/historical accounts. Not movies, anime or manga.
@Protherium Half the dumb weeaboo shits on the Internet don't even realize that the katana was not a battlefield weapon. It was a personal protective weapon more analogous to a rapier than a broadsword, and even then had different applications. The sword most commonly used on Japanese battlefields was the tachi, a longer and heavier weapon principally designed for cavalry use. In any case, the superiority of a weapon is largely determined by the wielder and not the weapon itself.
@kobuksonhwacha I think it would be fair say that both were designed for the battlefield. I've heard that the Katana arose as infantry combat became more important.
I don't think we can say whether skill or equipment is more important - sometimes it's one, sometimes the other. Comparisons are easy in extreme cases but it's tricky here because each weapon has advantages over the other (even if one may be "better" than the other in certain situations, or even in most situations).
@kobuksonhwacha Still, an assault rifle is a better weapon than a rock. We're comparing the weapons, not the users, so the fact that a greatly skilled man with a rock might beat a man with a rifle is irrelevant. No one is claiming that one weapon will *always* beat the other.
And I think that both art and science (skill and knowledge) are important in combat. Also, the scientific method can of course be applied to claims about humans. Maybe we're using "science" differently?
@kobuksonhwacha : They did use the katana on the battlefield, but as a last defense side-arm. At least during one era they did. It's true that it's more suited as a dueling weapon then a battle weapon, as it requires lots of space to use (referring to longsword type weapons in general). THOUGH, a noble could carry one as a sidearm of sorts, and if the battle lines broke and it became a frenzy it would be far more effective than his bow or polearm in most cases. (depending where)
@kobuksonhwacha : I am aware of all this. I know it was not a main battle weapon, just that it was used, and not very effectively. I'm referring to the tachi. I use katana as a modern work that represents the entire two handed sword's line.
But, I don't know what you consider a "densely populated combat situation", but that would refer more to a shield wall, phalanx, or some other closed formation, where polearms are actually most effective. The sidearm would be for a line break
@DeliriumOnSiren : Deadliest warrior is possibly the worst source of proper information regarding medieval warfare in existence. They do almost every aspect wrong.
There's really not much point in arguing with Thegus0. The chap's ignorant and proud of it, and he's determined to wank to the katana as a symbol of cultural superiority.
@halfassedfart Very ignorant. No high-ranking members of Japanese sword arts that I've interacted with would claim that the katana is the ultimate sword. They know better, having a knowledge of you know, swordsmanship. :)
Put it this way, Thegus0 is like one of those ordinary chaps who lusts after supermodels and pinup girls. The people who've dated them (the high level JSA guys) know that they're still women. Might be a mite sexist, but that's the best I could think of on short notice.
This discussion is pointless. I want to please all commentators to spend time with learning and practicing European martial arts or Easter MM instead of writing here comments. Comments are worthless, important is what you know. Not how many comments have you written.
Thank you for these videos. Lacking a proper school in my area it's people like you, who provide these videos allow me to learn, practice, and try to become a better student of European Martial Arts.
@kohutovic Poster, I apologize for cluttering your comments section with irrelevant extemporania. Excellent demo, and I look forward to seeing more of your work in the future.
@kobuksonhwacha Hi, I have no problem with discussion where people listen each other and don't accept others opinion blindly. The world of martial arts with cold weapons (wester or eastern) is full of myths. It's time to put them away. It's 21th century.
I would like to see more relevat videos too. Easter and western. Not only theoretical demostrations, slowmotion interpretations or katas without partner.
Guys, I don't followed this discussion about katanas. If someone wants to have holy relic in form of katana, it's his problem. I hate worshiping any kind of weapon.Each sword is a tool. Almost no of these techniques could be used with daito. Langschwert is not design to cut mushrooms but to fight without armor. Even if it's completely blunt it's lethal abd we have unique books about fencing in EU from middle ages. Have katana's fencers 50 books about fencing before year 1550? I think no. Bye
If you train those skills with a longsword, you can do all the show tricks katAna is famed for. But you're right, it's doubtful that Liechtenauer, dei Liberi and other grandmasters ever taught such nonsense.
@lusteraliaszero They did in Europe as well. London kicked the fencing schools out of the city due to noise complaints! Europe was a hotbed of fencing arts for centuries. However, after a while the arts were lost leaving only manuscripts and their modern sporting descendant arts. You see the same thing happening in Japan today, with more Koryu (old school) martial arts disappearing every year, but Kendo, Iaido and Judo are everywhere. The tragedy is they're not learning from Europe's experience.
@kohutovic katana fighting is not "re-constructed" or "re-claimed". it was always there, it was never forgotten. it is pointless to discuss as we will never know who would win in duel between fiore del liberi and musashi :D
@batulefou And what do you want to say? I would not say so. So can we say that fencing with rapier was never forgotten? Wast it always here in sport fencing. I doubt about it.
Please can you send me a one video a never forgotten fight with steel katanas? I have never seen such video. If you have some please inform us, otherwise I don't know whether is important to discuss it again.
@kohutovic that is a really solid criticisim. but i hope you know that the swords in this video are not lethal anyways. and there is no point in practising with lethal weapons. my point was that, kendo is pretty much the kendo it always had been. they have their sword manuals(which can be used by europeans i think) but they also did well to keep the tradition.
@batulefou Yes, these weapons are blunt and adjusted for training. And this is not a real fight. I agree. But kendo is sport, not a martial art. In each duel both of kendo fencer would be death if they fence like we can see in competitions. Similarly like in western tournaments.
@kohutovic Hi Anton, there are certainly schools of Japanese swordsmanship that have preserved what we would call "ernstfechten" with steel. However, many koryu are small, with perhaps a handful of members. They are sometimes disinclined to have their stuff on video, some prohibit it entirely, or alter their demos in public. There's a nice video of Taisha Ryu that shows paired work with steel as well as wood and solo forms as an example: /watch?v=W1B0MBNqYwc
@Thegus0 "on documentaries made by Discovery Channel, History Channel" - You are either a poor troll or really stupid if you think these shows are reliable sources. These shows are called infotainment. They purely exist to appeal the target audience. And the target audience consists of people who want to confirm their misconceptions. How about reading a book for a change? There a plenty of good books on that topic. And they are, unlike these shows, really scientific.
@NovaVeritas oh yes I trust you more than all the british/american experts called as guest speaker on tv because you are someone that read some books. ofcourse I read The Book too, and it says Jesus walked on water and turned water into wine. I believe anything if it is in a book LOL
Stop arguing with him. He is obviously not interested in a serious discussion. He answers to facts with insults and can't prove his own claims with sources. A typicall troll.
There is a lot more, but you'll find enough material on the net if you're seriously interested in that topic. Real life is different from a samurai movie or an anime. Sadly, most so-called amateur knowlegde stems from movies.
I'm not mocking the katana, mind you. It's a good weapon, but so is the longsword.
@Thegus0 You are wrong on many different levels. A katana is much more fragile than a longsword. Try to make this stuff in the video with a katana and you'll see. It would take a good amount of damage. Second, the cutting power. Read some fencing manuals, a lot of techniques are clearly for cutting and hewing.
It looks always a bit silly when an amateur is trying to lecture professionals who spend years of research and have actual expierience.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
these swords are a lot weaker than katana, good for stabbing but not good for slashing. it will break easily. Katana on the other hand is the only sword designed for both slashing and stabbing with great strength and durability to cut through many opponents... i still think they are no match for the cultural and technical depth of the japanese martial art. I mean even the word Jedi come from Japanese word Jidai Geki and darth vader mask from Samurai armor. which is cooler?? lol
@Thegus0 You only don't have enough information. I'm sure that these swords are much less fragile than katanas. And about matrial arts: I think you cannot say so much about martial art in Japan in 15th century like we know about Eurepean martial arts. Do we have over 50 fencing manuals from medieval Japan? I don't think so.
Who makes the longswords that you use? I'm trying to decide on a maker at the moment. The second one shown at the end looks like an Albion Liechtenauer and the first like an Albion Meyer. I'm in the US so Arms & Armor is looking like an attractive option at the moment as well; any comments? Sword buyers forums don't have enough people seriously interested in HEMA.
viceadmiralcongo 3 days ago
@viceadmiralcongo
I have a Ensifer (Jan Chodkiewicz) feder myself and I like it a lot. It feels great and has some flex so you can thrust but not to much so you can still do binding techniques. But it's made in Europe so it may be to much in shipping costs. I have tested friends Albion swords and they also feel awesome so if you have the money I can recomend them. I don't know much about Arms & Armor so I can't help you there.
gurkfisk89 2 days ago
I like how fantastically aggressive you guys are in training. I've seen a lot of longsword sparring on youtube, but yours have the most aggression by far.
Hyperpulsehammer 4 days ago in playlist More videos from kohutovic
A question, what kind of gloves are you using?
Krigerskole 4 days ago in playlist Favorite videos
very nice!
jackctrlaltdlt 4 days ago
Nice skills, this music is from game The Witcher
bibol382 5 days ago
great video whats the music though
PandaKnight52 1 week ago in playlist Liked videos
Sparks! at 01:53 :D
HolzmannsKnogar 2 weeks ago
This is awesome, and so fast.
Jensaarai1 4 weeks ago
Awesome vids! No pulling blows =)
hathiphnath 1 month ago
MEEEEEENNNNNN!!! :D
ksym 1 month ago
Excellent choice in music. All hail the witchers. :)
ssviator 1 month ago
is that music from the witcher game i here?
klasco1991 1 month ago
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kobuksonhwacha 1 month ago
@kobuksonhwacha wrong generalization
kohutovic 1 month ago
@kobuksonhwacha : Gee, you really do play too many video games. Katanas are just as heavy as longswords of this length because their blades are thicker. Also, Samurai were primarily trained as bowmen and horsemen, and learned the art of swordsmanship on the side. Knights were trained as horsemen and swordsmen, and EVERYONE was trained with a bow.
Time and time again I see the longsword being more graceful and versatile than the katana.
Halofreakanoid 1 month ago 10
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kobuksonhwacha 1 month ago
@kobuksonhwacha : And where did you get that completely unattainable percentile from? How can you properly measure dedication amongst all warriors, unless it is blatantly obvious. There are many more Eastern Martial artists than Western, because the tradition was passed down and kept longer for the Japanese, while by the time the modern age had come, the art of the sword had diminished into gentlemen duels. Most HEMA arts have been long lost and until recently, rediscovered.
Halofreakanoid 1 month ago
@kobuksonhwacha : There's also the Manuals by many masters such as Meyer, Talhoffer, and more, where groups like ARMA practice only techniques revolving around what the manuals describe.
Halofreakanoid 1 month ago
@Halofreakanoid Alright,well, this conversation has now incurred enough miscommunication, butthurt, and vehement subjectivity that there's little point in continuing. It's become obvious that you're less concerned with defending Western martial arts and more so with ripping the uneducated samurai-worshiping hoi polloi a new one. Nowhere in ANY of my comments did I state that Japanese, Korean, Eastern, or ANY other variety of sword was either superior or inferior as a whole to the longsword.
kobuksonhwacha 1 month ago
@kobuksonhwacha : My foremost concern is defending the arts of my ancestors, but I'm more of an attack kind of person when it comes to arguments. I never said that you considered either of the weapons inferior, but you said false facts of the longsword. That's what I was arguing against and comparing that to that of the tachi and katana.
Halofreakanoid 1 month ago
@Halofreakanoid Your issue seems to be that the elegance and efficacy of Eastern martial arts are greatly exaggerated by popular belief, whereas medieval European techniques are inaccurately viewed as clumsy, the weapons little more than large can openers, when in reality they possess a sophistication equal if not greater than their equivalents. I agree with this notion wholeheartedly. However, I do not agree with making across-the-board statements claiming the superiority of one or the other.
kobuksonhwacha 1 month ago
@kobuksonhwacha : I do not claim one in ultimately superior over the other. Each has different uses that are better in different situations. The katana is an superb cutting weapon, more so than the longsword, but it falls short in most other attributes, as it was a specialized weapon.
Your very first comment, you tried to compare the two different warriors if they had the same skill level, and then proceeded to claim the Samurai had better skill.
Halofreakanoid 1 month ago
@Halofreakanoid What longsword, specifically? There are 12 different types. We talking a beastly XIIIa war sword or a very slender XIX longsword (which, by the way, is, on average, a half inch wider than the widest katana). The katana was no better at cutting than almost any longsword. As a friend of mine says: curved swords keep edge alignment better. The sword's not cutting better; you're just screwing up less. This is true of all curved swords, not just the katana.
ChishioAme 3 weeks ago
@ChishioAme : I wasn't talking about width, I was talking about thickness. I was also talking that the styles of longsword used in this video, XIIa, XX, etc..
Those at the pinnacle of longsword design. I understand that there are many different types of longswords that have different specialties.
Also, a curved blade DOES cut better if you draw your cut. It's not just about the edge alignment. You can test this out in the kitchen. There's a reason why many modern knives are curved
Halofreakanoid 3 weeks ago
@ChishioAme a XIX longsword? i thought they used small swords for duels and saber in the battlefield in that time.
mechupanlamonda 2 weeks ago
@mechupanlamonda At what time? The smallsword's popularity was from the mid-17th to the late-18th century; the saber enjoyed a similar, if longer period of popularity as a battlefield weapon. However, during the earlier years of firearms, the 14th-15th centuries, longswords like the XIX were still very much in use on the battlefield and in civilian duels, though the rapier quickly took over the latter aspect.
ChishioAme 2 weeks ago
@mechupanlamonda
To reduce further confusion, when Halofreakanoid and ChishioAme are using roman numbers when they are refering to different swords. They don't refer to the century the swords are used but to the oakeshott typology. This typology is a tool so that you can specify swords a lot better, not the best but still usefull.
gurkfisk89 2 weeks ago
@mechupanlamonda
So a XIX longsword would be a longsword with a blade described as something close to this statement:
"Broad flat blade, edges running nearly parallel to a sudden sharp point, with narrow well-moulded fuller in the upper third. The section is a flat hexagon—i.e. the blade is flat, with edges clearly chamfered, as in Type XVIa. There is a well-made ricasso, almost 2.5-3" long."
gurkfisk89 2 weeks ago
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kobuksonhwacha 1 month ago
@kobuksonhwacha : People commonly think of European style swordplay as "hack until they die", while a greater majority of people consider Samurai arts to be kin with those of an ultimate warrior. I see it all around me. Your comparison makes no sense.
Halofreakanoid 1 month ago
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@kobuksonhwacha : People commonly think of European style swordplay as "hack until they die", while a greater majority of people consider Samurai arts to be kin with those of an ultimate warrior. I see it all around me. Your comparison makes no sense.
Halofreakanoid 1 month ago
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kobuksonhwacha 1 month ago
@kobuksonhwacha : I was referring to the tachi as being a longsword-LIKE weapon, as in comparison. A two handed sword meant for dueling/war. Yes, tachi and longsword dimensions did change, but the common ones that are to be compared are the medium weight tachi vs the equivalent longsword.
Halofreakanoid 1 month ago
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kobuksonhwacha 1 month ago
@kobuksonhwacha : My opener is the pent up rage I have against people who think the Samurai were some amazing fighting warrior, when they were actually half assed when you are taking many other nations into account.
My point is that you incorrectly stated that Samurai were specifically trained in swordplay, which they were not. Tachi were used by cavalry, and the katana was a personal defense weapon, almost unused on the battlefield, for a reason.
Halofreakanoid 1 month ago 2
@kobuksonhwacha : . You also incorrectly stated that the longsword is somehow slow, which it is anything but. The German longsword is just as fast as the average tachi, and has more reach, stabbing power, and has two edges and a cross style guard that allow for extremely fast counters, much faster than one can do with a single edged blade.
Halofreakanoid 1 month ago 2
@kobuksonhwacha
Uhm, samurai armor wasn't made out of bamboo. Also, there are special longsword techniques for close combat, search for halfswording (or Halbschwert).
NovaVeritas 1 month ago
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kobuksonhwacha 1 month ago
A Katana is also a social construct; the same blade worn in a diffrent way is called something else. A Katana needs to be kept on the left side, with the blade facing up. Only a member of the Warrior "class" in Japan could wear it (So even if you had a Loan-Sword Ashigari the way he would wear a tachi or katana would be diffrent). Katana's are overall better weapons then most European swords in regards to cutting and stabbing ability. A sword like the one shown in this video is for crushing.
pythag123 1 month ago
@pythag123 That would be because those are training swords, designed _not_ to kill the person they're hitting. (Note how they're floppy.)
An actual longsword with a tapered, 34 inch blade has virtually identical cutting dynamics to a katana. There are some differences which you can argue, but in the end, IT'S A SWORD. It cuts people, and it wouldn't be used historically if it wasn't able to do that. A weapon is a weapon - the important bit is the six inches behind it.
Jetman123 1 month ago
Not all swords are equal, its like saying a "a gun is a gun" even though you know a Lee Enfield is a worse gun then an AR15. East Asian swords are better then European ones (espc. Korean ones). The armies of fedual Japan didn't use head on charges with mounted troops, their sword were designed to provided enough shock damage to brake pole-armed units, European armies had lances and horse to cause massive shock, in Asia they relied on their swords, Asian swords deal more damage, fact.
pythag123 1 month ago
@pythag123 If you have a hole in your forehead shot by 9mm or 12mm bullet, it doesn't matter at all.
kohutovic 1 month ago
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Jetman123 1 month ago
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kobuksonhwacha 1 month ago
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kobuksonhwacha 1 month ago
@pythag123 Lee Enfield is a worse gun than an AR15??? OK, tell you what - I'll take an SMLE and you take an AR15. We'll stand off at about 500 yards and take shots at each other. Let's see who hits first. :) I'd rather have the bolt action, long barreled .303 than a .223 with a shorter barrel at that distance. So the lesson is, it's all about context. Same with swords.
DeusEx1977 3 days ago
I do understand the point your trying to make though. Do I have it right: If two people fight with swords, and one of them knows fencing and the other does not then the weapons they use are irrelevent, the one with more knoweldge and skill will win. The problem is that historically sword combat done between the social elite, all of whom were at least somewhat trained in fencing.
pythag123 1 month ago
@pythag123 Gah. Sorry. I didn't see your second comment before I posted.
What I'm trying to say is that combat doesn't depend on any one single factor. Combat is dangerous. Imagine a skilled opponent blinded by the sun while his untrained adversary is not. Then it doesn't matter whether he have a stick, rock, or the biggest sword known to man, the skilled guy still might get disabled. A slight edge in wounding against unarmored targets is useful, but not as much as some make it seem.
Jetman123 1 month ago
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kobuksonhwacha 1 month ago
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@pythag123 I will, however, agree the Japanese swords have an axe-like penetration effect that is actually quite interesting - they stumbled on a very good technique and kept it. However, the straight bladed ones you see in KDF have their own advantages in terms of versatility, even if they lack the curved blade that makes such deep wounds. In the end, the ability to cut slightly deeper is a moot point when you're talking about swords that are big enough to decapitate someone.
Jetman123 1 month ago
@pythag123 : You're kidding right? The tachi is a horrible stabbing weapon. ALL curved blades are poor in the thrust. The longsword of this kind is primarily designed for trusts and cuts, NOT crushing.
You also don't give enough credit to European swords, who had already surpassed the Tachi's technology 2000 years before it, with the Celts.
Halofreakanoid 1 month ago
1:51 sparks*
robinhoodsun 1 month ago
Great stuff great stuff. Planning to make any more videos?
HellerDon 1 month ago
OMGFGFFFFG SUPER COUNTERS!!
Aemiliuswallace 1 month ago
are those thinner feder blades from Regenyei?
IaMaPh1991 2 months ago
@IaMaPh1991 No, they are not. All swords here have more than 1,6kg. Producers Pavel Moc, Jan Chodkiewicz, J. Bures.
kohutovic 1 month ago
@kohutovic May I ask - how does that compare with the weight of swords in the past?
MartialSkeptic 4 days ago
@MartialSkeptic There were lighter and also heavier swords. But usual range is the same as we use. Some sharp swords are even lighter.
kohutovic 4 days ago
@kohutovic Thanks for the info - great skills btw!
MartialSkeptic 4 days ago
Inspiring display of technique!
FromThanatosToSol 2 months ago
Musick sucks..
LutzDerLurch 2 months ago
hi kohutuvic!grwat sword fighting! is a longsword(two handed) at a disadvantage against shield with arming sword or axe(one handed)? and have you guys tried to spar with a person using such weapons?tanx
MrTianak69 2 months ago
>sparks explode off the clashing swords
>moving so fast that it tricks the eye
DAT SPARRING
ToothpickMcBrainy 2 months ago
Lol I love the music from The Witcher in the vid, very appropriate. Was nice that that game went to great lengths to see that it used the actual forms and style of longsword dueling. And of course the reaction from the unwashed masses was: THAT DOESNT LOOK LIKE REAL SWORDFIGHTING!
returnofyesman 2 months ago
Anton, very, very beautiful. You have my congratulations !!
Beltarful 2 months ago
@Beltarful Thank you.Dakujeme.
kohutovic 2 months ago
That is some fast swordsmanship. Great to see the real thing.
Most people think European knights were big slow brutes, but the fact is that they were very skilled warriors. Good to see a video that shows that.
mbern45 3 months ago
wow! great fights
losunimo88 3 months ago
This is done wonderfull, I really enjoy the speed and control of the weapons. Thanks für the nice demonstration.
wemperor 3 months ago
Always the same discussion about Katana and Longsword X-D. Guys, take fencing masks and spar with each other and you´ll know for yourself what advantages and disadvantages both weapons have.
And to kohutovic:
I´m pleased and impressed you show true martial arts. It looks skilled, fast, powerful and you both definatly know what you are doing.
All the best wishes from Germany and my Sparring Group:
You are welcome for a friendly bout.
Ask Zukuru, for more information, we would be honored.
DerSpartaner 3 months ago 6
One thing that's seemed to have escaped everyone is that the Thegus0 fellow was most likely trolling because he saw that if he insulted you all, he'd be taken as a serious commentator on swords. He's a youtube boob. Some people are ignorant and, don;t care if they are proven wrong. They just want to attack and, get a thrill reading all of the people who sincerely want to debate, while they want to harass and, insult.
MrPotatoesLatkie 4 months ago
Great clips. Thanks for uploading and sharing. Inspirational too. I love the concepts that i'm learning from my Guro in Lichtenauer training. Hoping someday that i can bring my training to this level. :)
kathleenmccabe 4 months ago in playlist More videos from kohutovic
The funny thing is that this super samurai masamoto? himself said you have to use the best weapon you can get and fought afterwards because of competition with a long stick... everything is in the fighter not in the weapon.... I can't stand these this is better that is better discussions
informatikbachelor 4 months ago
Sehr schöne Demonstration. Vielen Dank.
zoolkhan 4 months ago
@kohutovic is that 'the witcher/wiedzmin's soundtrack in the background?
lusteraliaszero 4 months ago
is there a way to slow this video down so i can analyze some moves for my own training???
volarion 4 months ago
@volarion
There is maybe a easier way but I would download the video to my harddrive using w/e I find by google "download youtube video". Then I would be able to slow it down with my usual media player.
gurkfisk89 4 months ago
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Caradepato2 4 months ago
Great speed and superb footwork. How do feel the fairly low Vom Tag responds to a Zwerchhau strike when kept in that guard?
gavintrebuchet 4 months ago
@gavintrebuchet Isnt Vom Tag the high guard?
Caradepato2 4 months ago
@Caradepato2
Yes, but we practise a higher Vom Tag with the cross guard at eye level. This protects against the zwerch hau and allows longer reach with the zorn hau. We found the blade hits the face whn kept that low. What do you think?
gavintrebuchet 4 months ago
@gavintrebuchet Yes, that makes sense... Ill try that out on my next session.
Caradepato2 4 months ago
@gavintrebuchet While the Vom Tag held at eye height is seen in period artwork and is present in Japanese sword arts, the German fechtbucher show only the above the head or on the shoulder variants, and of course Zornhut from Meyer and others. Once you get used to it, the shoulder version is just as safe, making the Master Cuts very quick. As long as your arms are extended into Langort during the cut, your reach will be the same. :)
Kunstdesfechtens 4 months ago
@Kunstdesfechtens Thanks, I might talk to the club about this and see what benefits could be acheived.
gavintrebuchet 4 months ago
@Kunstdesfechtens I can attest to this. I initially was reticent to come out of Phlug as my basic defensive guard but once I came out of my shell Vom Tag over the shoulder is very effective and equally strong in the defense as it is in the offense. It also serves well if you are short like me when trying to fight single time like you should lol.
quixoteknight 4 months ago
@Kunstdesfechtens I've always found the shoulder level vom tag to be far more natural and powerful than the 'walkie-talkie' ARMA vom tag for the push-pull cutting mechanics that I was taught. I suppose if you're swinging the sword, the latter might work slightly better.
halfassedfart 4 months ago
Am i wrong or are they bending their back to much on the garde?
Caradepato2 4 months ago
that looks quite more agile and technical than it is often depicted in those katana vs longsword comparisons... (where the longsword is shown as a brute-force weapon)
Ashmodai 4 months ago
@gurkfisk89 i believe i have it now after training with it for a while if im doing it right you wind from a left high gaurd down and around into the head strike its amazing how easy it is once you get it. these guys are amazingly fast though i dont even compare.
volarion 5 months ago
I will try thanks :P
volarion 5 months ago
can someone pls explain how the pivot move in 1:38 and 1:45 is done??? the head strike it looks amazing :) very nice fighting here
volarion 5 months ago
@volarion
The situation is like this:
Se strikes, you avoid, strike his blade out of the way and hit him on the head. How:
You strike the blade with the long edge, in a krumphau like move. You turn your sword back to a nebenhut or tail guard and then cut with the short edge to the head. Something like that, if they do what I think they do =)
gurkfisk89 5 months ago
@volarion
I do it something like:
extend the arms to a krumphau. Pull back my right hand to turn the sword backward and get the short edge pointing upwards. And then start tu puch my right hand forward/upwards while at the same time pull my left hand back.
Oh, it's hard to describe in text. I want to say "like this" and show you. But I hope you can make something out of my comments. And I hope what I tried to explain is what they did.
gurkfisk89 5 months ago
I agree with Emhilradim. Why the hell is this fantastic video demonstrating the skill and technique of european swordplay being polluted with a couple of weeaboo trolls? let's ignore them. they are either trolls, or ignorant and close-minded. Finally, from what I have seen, the similarities between Asian MA and Euro MA are many. kenjitsu and KdF, messer and wakizashi, judo and medieval wrestling. Humans are the all the same, so the ways to kill them are always the same, in germany, or in japan.
FoolingWithFuhlen 5 months ago
@FoolingWithFuhlen
I feel bad because I may be one of those to blame for some of these weeaboos. If i see someone state that european swords are heavy and slow I often refer to this video because it's a very good video that shows that just as you say, KdF and kenjutsu are very similar. I never meant for the weeabos to take the conversation to this place and I'm really sorry for that.
gurkfisk89 5 months ago
@gurkfisk89 hmmm now that you put it that way........
you make a good point. We gotta educate people about WMA, and this video is one of the best I've seen. No need to apologize for that. Especially not to me xD
either way, haters gonna hate. It sucks to spam the comments of this video with debate, but to use the famous quote: "If not now, when?"
one thing I have noticed lately is how on just about every video about swords, there are people mentioning HEMA. I think that's a very good thing ;)
FoolingWithFuhlen 5 months ago
@gurkfisk89
Apart from educational purposes; I'm often pretty amused when some katana plonkers watch this one and see that those training props weigh as double as katAnaS, but can be easily moved with shocking speed. "Light==Quick; Heavy==Slow" this logic gets apparently screwed, causing disorientation in their anime filled brains. :-D
Protherium 5 months ago
@Protherium Besides. A longsword should only weigh in just over 3 lbs. I don't really get why people are arguing over this subject anyway. They're completely different swords. Though personally, I lean more towards the european longsword. It's a one hander, a two hander, a short spear and a blunt pick. Versatile. A katana ... cuts.
TheFrostedLlama 5 months ago 2
@TheFrostedLlama The weight thing always got me too. Because the profile of a longsword may be broader it seems that it must weigh more than the more slender katana without remembering that material must be either moved or removed from BOTH edges from a longsword and that the katana actually has more mass at the back of the blade because of the added thickness of not forming a second edge.
The weights are actually comparable while the longsword has greater length and second edge... nasty...
quixoteknight 4 months ago
@quixoteknight Yeah man! I was blown away by that when I found out. Haha Yah you're right, forgot about the murder stroke lol
TheFrostedLlama 4 months ago
@TheFrostedLlama oh yeah, you forgot war hammer on the versatility bit lol.
quixoteknight 4 months ago
@TheFrostedLlama A katana thrusts plenty well against human beings and textile armour, it's just pretty shit against heavier armour because of the point geometry.
halfassedfart 4 months ago
@halfassedfart Oh yeah, you'll get no argument from me. I was mostly dwelling on it's ability to get through european armour.Now, what I really want to see, is a legitamate face off between Japanese Budo and German Kunst des Fechten. Not to see which is better, because it's fair to say that the fighting arts are comparable, and actually have a lot in common with their advanced techniques. I would just love to see the dynamic between the two, and how the fighters would adapt to the opposing style
TheFrostedLlama 3 months ago
@TheFrostedLlama Koryu kenjutsu, you mean. I'm not sure what that'd prove beyond determining which group has the better individual fighters, HEMA is far too fragmented for any one person to be representative of the greater population.
halfassedfart 3 months ago
@halfassedfart I meant it as more of a generalization. Not just pitting the two fencing styles against one another, but the entire systems of combat. To exclusively fence while sparring is like only having having missionary sex your whole life. And it's not to prove anything at all really. The interest in it for me, is to see how students of each school would adapt within their systems in order to combat the other more effectively. If that makes any sense? Maybe not. lol : )
TheFrostedLlama 3 months ago
@halfassedfart As far as drawing people from whatever groups or affiliations. I wouldn't know. I do look into HEMA, ARMA etc but often find infighting and a lot of personal politics. You're right, it is all very fragmented, which can be a bit discouraging at times.
TheFrostedLlama 3 months ago
@halfassedfart And I don't mean that as an insult to people who do exclusively fence. Practicing skills in exclusivity is important. I'm simply a fan of bouts where you use everything at your disposal.
TheFrostedLlama 3 months ago
@TheFrostedLlama I dunno, it tends to resemble one of those 'my style has a bigger penis than your style' arguments. Whatever the result, it doesn't detract from the fact that both arts have value, but that point will be lost on many.
It would definitely be interesting, no doubt about that. I'm guessing that there'll be a lot of wrangling over rulesets as well though.
halfassedfart 3 months ago
@Protherium simple answer, they are not real Katana plonkers. The real ones that I know aren't that stupid lol.
quixoteknight 4 months ago
@FoolingWithFuhlen lol, I always called what my teacher did to me on my first day of sparring "German Sword Judo".
quixoteknight 4 months ago
Seriously, getting into a fucking debate over Asian vs European weaponry... Why don't you all just relax, and go about your ways. If you don't like European weaponry, that's great, keep it to yourself and go elsewhere. Likewise if you don't like Japanese weaponry, also keep that to yourself.
No need for 10+ pages of argumentative comments on this video.
Emhilradim 5 months ago
technique reminds me of japanese kendo
73aussie1 5 months ago
@73aussie1 Well, the nachreisen techniques, as shown here, yes. Good distance management is good distance management. Besides, kenjutsu is a much more apples-to-apples comparison b/c it covers a full range of body targets as well as grappling techniques.
You won't find much in the way of zwerchhauen, krumphauen, and other short edge strikes in kenjutsu, however. They're pretty much unique to A) two-edged blades, and B) German longsword.
dakaodo 5 months ago
Two handed swords swing too slow they said. With the speed he made to the other guys head, you would be dead before you even knew it. So cool, I wish there was somewhere around here that taught European martial arts.
Garrettcore 5 months ago
@Garrettcore
You can always try ARMA Austin:
armaaustin . o r g
=)
gurkfisk89 5 months ago
@gurkfisk89 Thanks, I will check it out.
Garrettcore 5 months ago
@Garrettcore For comparison shopping, you can also try the Austin Swordsmanship group on Facebook. They train on Sundays, and are a beginner study group supported by our school (Sword to Sword) out of Houston.
No, you won't become a master overnight, but at least they know what a proper Ochs guard looks and feels like against multiple strikes. ;)
dakaodo 5 months ago
--Thegus0--
And again, pretty much as I expected, no japanophile can back up their claim "it's proven scientifically that katAna is superior". Plenty of --I've seen, I heard, my master saw, scientists has revealed, it's proven, it's a fact!!!!-- but actually just hot air. Ser un charlatán, palabrero! Leeres Geschwätz! Пустая болтовня!
Any claim has to be backed up with books/research papers/references to experts/historical accounts. Not movies, anime or manga.
Nothing more to say...
Protherium 5 months ago 5
@Protherium Half the dumb weeaboo shits on the Internet don't even realize that the katana was not a battlefield weapon. It was a personal protective weapon more analogous to a rapier than a broadsword, and even then had different applications. The sword most commonly used on Japanese battlefields was the tachi, a longer and heavier weapon principally designed for cavalry use. In any case, the superiority of a weapon is largely determined by the wielder and not the weapon itself.
kobuksonhwacha 2 months ago 15
@kobuksonhwacha I think it would be fair say that both were designed for the battlefield. I've heard that the Katana arose as infantry combat became more important.
I don't think we can say whether skill or equipment is more important - sometimes it's one, sometimes the other. Comparisons are easy in extreme cases but it's tricky here because each weapon has advantages over the other (even if one may be "better" than the other in certain situations, or even in most situations).
Okaruwazashi 1 month ago
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kobuksonhwacha 1 month ago
@kobuksonhwacha Still, an assault rifle is a better weapon than a rock. We're comparing the weapons, not the users, so the fact that a greatly skilled man with a rock might beat a man with a rifle is irrelevant. No one is claiming that one weapon will *always* beat the other.
And I think that both art and science (skill and knowledge) are important in combat. Also, the scientific method can of course be applied to claims about humans. Maybe we're using "science" differently?
Okaruwazashi 1 month ago
@kobuksonhwacha : Art and Science can be combined. War is both art AND science.
Halofreakanoid 1 month ago
@kobuksonhwacha : They did use the katana on the battlefield, but as a last defense side-arm. At least during one era they did. It's true that it's more suited as a dueling weapon then a battle weapon, as it requires lots of space to use (referring to longsword type weapons in general). THOUGH, a noble could carry one as a sidearm of sorts, and if the battle lines broke and it became a frenzy it would be far more effective than his bow or polearm in most cases. (depending where)
Halofreakanoid 1 month ago
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kobuksonhwacha 1 month ago
@kobuksonhwacha : I am aware of all this. I know it was not a main battle weapon, just that it was used, and not very effectively. I'm referring to the tachi. I use katana as a modern work that represents the entire two handed sword's line.
But, I don't know what you consider a "densely populated combat situation", but that would refer more to a shield wall, phalanx, or some other closed formation, where polearms are actually most effective. The sidearm would be for a line break
Halofreakanoid 1 month ago
@kobuksonhwacha
Katana is just the Japanese name for any sword... so...tecnicaly...
But, yea - not to mension the lance and the bow.
ssviator 1 month ago
@Protherium Deadliest Warriors on the Discovery Channel had a Viking vs Samurai episode. Very interesting tid bits on Long Sword vs. Katana.
DeliriumOnSiren 1 month ago
@DeliriumOnSiren : Deadliest warrior is possibly the worst source of proper information regarding medieval warfare in existence. They do almost every aspect wrong.
Halofreakanoid 1 month ago
@DeliriumOnSiren Vikings didn't use longswords.
Jetman123 1 month ago
There's really not much point in arguing with Thegus0. The chap's ignorant and proud of it, and he's determined to wank to the katana as a symbol of cultural superiority.
halfassedfart 6 months ago
@halfassedfart Very ignorant. No high-ranking members of Japanese sword arts that I've interacted with would claim that the katana is the ultimate sword. They know better, having a knowledge of you know, swordsmanship. :)
Kunstdesfechtens 6 months ago 2
@Kunstdesfechtens I didn't say they claimed anything like that. :P
Put it this way, Thegus0 is like one of those ordinary chaps who lusts after supermodels and pinup girls. The people who've dated them (the high level JSA guys) know that they're still women. Might be a mite sexist, but that's the best I could think of on short notice.
halfassedfart 6 months ago
@halfassedfart Ididn't mean that you were ignorant by the way. I meant the katana-plonker was ignorant. :)
Kunstdesfechtens 5 months ago
@HipposHateWater
Maybe he didn't put enough "Ki" in the sword. ;-)
NovaVeritas 6 months ago
This discussion is pointless. I want to please all commentators to spend time with learning and practicing European martial arts or Easter MM instead of writing here comments. Comments are worthless, important is what you know. Not how many comments have you written.
kohutovic 6 months ago 26
@kohutovic
Thank you for these videos. Lacking a proper school in my area it's people like you, who provide these videos allow me to learn, practice, and try to become a better student of European Martial Arts.
sirconnor92 5 months ago
@kohutovic : Though, you can teach others, so that they know, through commenting, if you know how to with sources.
Halofreakanoid 4 months ago
@kohutovic Poster, I apologize for cluttering your comments section with irrelevant extemporania. Excellent demo, and I look forward to seeing more of your work in the future.
kobuksonhwacha 1 month ago
@kobuksonhwacha Hi, I have no problem with discussion where people listen each other and don't accept others opinion blindly. The world of martial arts with cold weapons (wester or eastern) is full of myths. It's time to put them away. It's 21th century.
I would like to see more relevat videos too. Easter and western. Not only theoretical demostrations, slowmotion interpretations or katas without partner.
kohutovic 1 month ago 5
Guys, I don't followed this discussion about katanas. If someone wants to have holy relic in form of katana, it's his problem. I hate worshiping any kind of weapon.Each sword is a tool. Almost no of these techniques could be used with daito. Langschwert is not design to cut mushrooms but to fight without armor. Even if it's completely blunt it's lethal abd we have unique books about fencing in EU from middle ages. Have katana's fencers 50 books about fencing before year 1550? I think no. Bye
kohutovic 6 months ago 21
@kohutovic
""Langschwert is not design to cut mushrooms""
-- watch?v=ReZZGgVsqME#t=1m16s
If you train those skills with a longsword, you can do all the show tricks katAna is famed for. But you're right, it's doubtful that Liechtenauer, dei Liberi and other grandmasters ever taught such nonsense.
Protherium 5 months ago
@kohutovic I can quarantee you they had. I'm not saying katanas are better, but they probably had even 50 different SCHOOLS on fencing
lusteraliaszero 4 months ago
@lusteraliaszero They did in Europe as well. London kicked the fencing schools out of the city due to noise complaints! Europe was a hotbed of fencing arts for centuries. However, after a while the arts were lost leaving only manuscripts and their modern sporting descendant arts. You see the same thing happening in Japan today, with more Koryu (old school) martial arts disappearing every year, but Kendo, Iaido and Judo are everywhere. The tragedy is they're not learning from Europe's experience.
Kunstdesfechtens 4 months ago
@kohutovic katana fighting is not "re-constructed" or "re-claimed". it was always there, it was never forgotten. it is pointless to discuss as we will never know who would win in duel between fiore del liberi and musashi :D
batulefou 3 months ago
@batulefou And what do you want to say? I would not say so. So can we say that fencing with rapier was never forgotten? Wast it always here in sport fencing. I doubt about it.
Please can you send me a one video a never forgotten fight with steel katanas? I have never seen such video. If you have some please inform us, otherwise I don't know whether is important to discuss it again.
kohutovic 3 months ago
@kohutovic that is a really solid criticisim. but i hope you know that the swords in this video are not lethal anyways. and there is no point in practising with lethal weapons. my point was that, kendo is pretty much the kendo it always had been. they have their sword manuals(which can be used by europeans i think) but they also did well to keep the tradition.
batulefou 3 months ago
@batulefou Yes, these weapons are blunt and adjusted for training. And this is not a real fight. I agree. But kendo is sport, not a martial art. In each duel both of kendo fencer would be death if they fence like we can see in competitions. Similarly like in western tournaments.
kohutovic 3 months ago
@kohutovic exactly. safety comes first.
batulefou 2 months ago
@kohutovic Hi Anton, there are certainly schools of Japanese swordsmanship that have preserved what we would call "ernstfechten" with steel. However, many koryu are small, with perhaps a handful of members. They are sometimes disinclined to have their stuff on video, some prohibit it entirely, or alter their demos in public. There's a nice video of Taisha Ryu that shows paired work with steel as well as wood and solo forms as an example: /watch?v=W1B0MBNqYwc
Kunstdesfechtens 2 months ago
@Kunstdesfechtens I do believe they should be somewhere.:) Thanks.
kohutovic 2 months ago
Just watching this makes my blood boil! Good, yes!
Also, a handy link for the debate:
thearma.org/essays/longsword-and-katana.html
ShanyiBacsi 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Thegus0
I didn't know that the bible was a scientific book on swords, but I'm sure you know that book better than me.
Yor ignorance is simply astonishing, so these shows suit you well.
NovaVeritas 6 months ago
@Thegus0 "on documentaries made by Discovery Channel, History Channel" - You are either a poor troll or really stupid if you think these shows are reliable sources. These shows are called infotainment. They purely exist to appeal the target audience. And the target audience consists of people who want to confirm their misconceptions. How about reading a book for a change? There a plenty of good books on that topic. And they are, unlike these shows, really scientific.
NovaVeritas 6 months ago
@NovaVeritas oh yes I trust you more than all the british/american experts called as guest speaker on tv because you are someone that read some books. ofcourse I read The Book too, and it says Jesus walked on water and turned water into wine. I believe anything if it is in a book LOL
Thegus0 6 months ago
Stop arguing with him. He is obviously not interested in a serious discussion. He answers to facts with insults and can't prove his own claims with sources. A typicall troll.
Ignore him.
NovaVeritas 6 months ago
@Protherium Nice horizontal cutting, but I think you missed the one where they cut through a (gutted) deer carcass. watch?v=3v4j3mvrDyQ#t=12s
Since kohutovic's link isn't working, here's a fixed link: watch?v=5Hy_A9vjp_s#t=5m55s
Surprise, surprise, the katana couldn't cut through the arming sword, but the longsword did.
NotJustYouNoob 6 months ago
@Protherium
I admire your effort to correct the myths. But frankly, I think it's a lost cause. Some people simply prefer to believe in fairies.
Nonetheless impressive videos. I enjoyed them. Thank you.
NovaVeritas 6 months ago
Watch this videos if you think you can't make prope cuts with a European sword.
watch?v=HNEBpu8eDsU
NovaVeritas 6 months ago
There is a lot more, but you'll find enough material on the net if you're seriously interested in that topic. Real life is different from a samurai movie or an anime. Sadly, most so-called amateur knowlegde stems from movies.
I'm not mocking the katana, mind you. It's a good weapon, but so is the longsword.
NovaVeritas 6 months ago
Comment removed
NovaVeritas 6 months ago
@Thegus0 You are wrong on many different levels. A katana is much more fragile than a longsword. Try to make this stuff in the video with a katana and you'll see. It would take a good amount of damage. Second, the cutting power. Read some fencing manuals, a lot of techniques are clearly for cutting and hewing.
It looks always a bit silly when an amateur is trying to lecture professionals who spend years of research and have actual expierience.
NovaVeritas 6 months ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
these swords are a lot weaker than katana, good for stabbing but not good for slashing. it will break easily. Katana on the other hand is the only sword designed for both slashing and stabbing with great strength and durability to cut through many opponents... i still think they are no match for the cultural and technical depth of the japanese martial art. I mean even the word Jedi come from Japanese word Jidai Geki and darth vader mask from Samurai armor. which is cooler?? lol
Thegus0 6 months ago
@Thegus0 You only don't have enough information. I'm sure that these swords are much less fragile than katanas. And about matrial arts: I think you cannot say so much about martial art in Japan in 15th century like we know about Eurepean martial arts. Do we have over 50 fencing manuals from medieval Japan? I don't think so.
kohutovic 6 months ago