3 Lessons about Guild Wars from the Factions Championship

[ForYeensSake]

You know, they should really get some of the best players to rebalance GW to preNF or perhaps even prefactions. PVE players would probably go for GWII, PvP players would still find a niche in GWI. Win-win imho (given that it attracts enough pvp players that is).

[gyrotuffjonykirby]

Guild Wars Is, And Always Will Be Legendary =)

[SolaceIX]

Ok I'm not trying to start a war or anything BUT:

GW becoming the new WoW is a GOOD thing to ANet. Why? Because WoW, whether you like it or not, is successful. Besides that, a lot of people, like myself, enjoy PvE more than PvP.

[jukissimissimo]

where i can find the complete movie (all 3 parts)?

[bladerunner983]

Ya I like PVE, and I prefer it(personally), but I sincerely have a high respect for PVP as well. PVE/PVP will always be part of GW(2) and onwards. -I hope? There should be no PVE versus PVP ?, its just stoopid, each player(s), or each guild,....) to their own vices be it PVE'ing preferences or PVP'ing. If it wasn't for PVE thru' Proph. Factions, NF, and EoTN, I would "NOT" have played nearly as long as I did. -a dozen reasons why ?, have already been commented on here.

[leandrogaluzzi]

anyone know where i can find these videos?

[SnowSlide91]

Really awesome... I was wonder why in GTOB you can find only Factions' Championship trophy, now I know...

[bbowsin]

anet says gw2 will have world vs world(me thinks correct me if im wrong) and it might be MASSIVE pvp so yeah...

[bbqftw1]

Who exactly is the iQ player talking?

[fergmasterflex]

Ed (Sarus)did our interviews. He played monk for us.

[farkaswolf]

The good old days...

War Machine and Evil "left" because some of their members had mandatory military duty/training. Not because they didn't like the game or lost motivation.

[DreamWindX]

Yes they lost some members due to that, but they both reformed with some new players around the time Nightfall came out. I think they lost motivation shortly after that because they are gone now.

[DESTROYEDCRAB]

You should e-mail this to A Net cause i completely agree with you. A Net needs to be slapped and they need to keep the PvP coming. Either way great video. i hoped it made a lot of people realize the truth.

[DreamWindX]

I don't think it did. There are a lot of thick headed people out there. Even after I showed them this video they argued that I took what the founder said "out of context", even though he is clearly talking about a PvP event at a PvP event. Really sad...

I could send this to Anet. I doubt it would get anywhere.

[crea1233]

2) in theory you are correct, but if you remember the start of GW there werent even faction around, you had to:

cap the skills in PvE, no faction

get armor in PvE, in the start it was actually pretty damn important to armorswap during pvp

get weapons in PvE, you could only get 2 weaponsets in the start, and to get +5 energy etc etc you had to get those trough pve.

ergo: the game werent built for PvP, but for PvEers that wanted to play against other enemies.

[DreamWindX]

The things you mention are just neccessary things Anet didn't add to the game originally.

The point of lesson 2 is that the game was supposed to have a more PvP oriented direction than it has taken. It is clearly going the route of PvE for GW2.

The other point was to show the founder claiming my point. (A lot of people didn't believe me).

[crea1233]

1) some of the biggest upsets in the game has come from people using "bad" builds, remember when EW won with FoC-spike? or maybe how iQ pulled of a fir-ele with glyphsac-meteorshower build at VoD? Or you maybe remember when Lum pulled off a 2 W, 2 Cripshot rangers, 3 monk build against WM in the first championship? Or even when EviL (as the first) used 2 Mo/a instead of E-managment monks, that at the time were unthinkable?

[DreamWindX]

Lesson 1 was more of a current issue around the time I made the video. The idea is that using the build that wins is key, whatever that may be. There is a large amount of people who use bad builds and defend them, then cry when the builds are exposed as bad.

Lesson 2 and 3 are more important IMO.

[finalfan321]

I totally agree with you man. GW was initially pvp only but anet cant live alone from the pvp players. They needed more players to sell more. Don't forget games is pure commercial bussiness. And yes gw2 will suck caus it's going to be wowish (bullsjit with noobs).

Gw died for me at nf. The only challenge left is a gold trim rest is sjit

[NailedHope]

DreamWindX u must like gw2 then?

[DreamWindX]

I'm not convinced it will be any good. Remember, Anet has gone the direction of PvE. I think GW2 will be the next WoW until shown otherwise.

[N377L35]

the whole balance in the game skills and classes made it fall aprt not the shit players only shit players buying high ranked accounts from ebay made it worthless

[britesideofdeath]

If it was solely PvP I meant to say.

[DreamWindX]

Also, I can't give you evidence that GW would be great with solely PvP. I still think PvE should exist.

I can however say without a shadow of a doubt that PvP had the potential be one of the best games ever made. There is no other PvP experience like it. There is a reason the Koreans jumped on board.

Anets mismanagement of resources and time however, has killed this off completely. I don't blame PvE per se (although thats indirect...again, I blame Anet (directly).

[britesideofdeath]

PvP is for the people who are determined to get better but some don't like that. If PvE didn't exist there wouldn't be 5 million players who are 'pro'. Alot of PvP-PvE migration is due to push factors from elitism as people have stated (it's not an excuse it's a reason). Give me evidence that GW would be great if it was solely PvE (you can't- it's like predicting the future. A-net isn't to blame for Lack of PvP players it's due to the players themselves who think the lesser ranks are inferior.

[DreamWindX]

Wrong.

The reason you (and people like you) look at PvP as some elitist competition instead of the greatness it was is because of Anets management of it. PvP should be a fun easy experience that you can play with guildies as well.

I never said PvE shouldn't exist. I said PvP should have been the main focus...see Starcraft which sold over 9 million. It has PvE, but its not the reason it sold 9 million.

There are a lot of people that have bad GW ideas. Yours are common..I blame Anet 100%.

[britesideofdeath]

Your evidence only proves that GW was initially a PvP game. However PvE came into the equation because players didn't like the competitive side or the people that spam rank emote at you. PvP is basically one big discrimination against the new players.

PvE is for the players who like to just have fun with guildies, non-competitively. It brings alot to GW. If PvP was the only thing in GW, it wouldn't have over 5,000,000 players.

[N377L35]

Lesson 3 So true, ever since they started releasing expansions the game started falling apart little by little i mean factions wasent so bad but then nightfall just made pvp so imba this game Was Rlly a amazeing game but it got ruined i use to play this game ever since 05 but now it just seems pointless to play or even get Fame in Ha due to their double fame garbage cuz people suck at the game, i really miss the old days so much memories and gd times in this game

[bobgoesw00t]

dude i really have to disagree with you, PvE balances PvP, with out one, the other would fall and the game wouldn't have over 5,000,000 players.

[DreamWindX]

The idea is not that PvE shouldn't exist. The idea is that PvE has taken a lot away from PvP.

[DellroySimmons]

I like PvP, but I also love PvE. Not to be mean or offencive to anyone, but PvE is a big reason why they have numerous players too. I personally like PvE better cause I get mroe freedom and tons of stuff and quests to do. I love quests. However, if Guild Wars had ONLY PvE I wouldn't play it as much because PvE does get boring, and PvP is really fun, except the fact that idiots plays (i.e. when they win a match they get in you're face sometimes, yet other people are nice and say GG like normal...

[Ekelon123]

Lesson 3 is my favorite...

[Jangaboo]

hey where did you find these clips, are there more?

These are pretty cool

[DreamWindX]

That entire tournament is still online. I'll have to look up the site though I can't remember the exact.

[Maraxusofk]

i miss classic guild wars. ive played for 31 months and even did the proph beta so i know wut im talking about. pvp will never be as good as it once was (paras are the the most imba class imo, imagine having a prot monk that affects all party members, self regen energy, and do insane dmg) and pve only ruined gw cuz too many ppl suck too hard to do pvp, creating a larger pve base. its why u see so many districts of ra/ta and very lil for ha.

[dozer2143]

Why dont they have a NF cammpionship its been over due its been like a year now seence it came out. I do agree that the GvG is not as good as it was but it still one of the better things in guild wars.

[DreamWindX]

They discontinued the championships. The entire point of automated tournaments was so they didn't have to deal with PvP while they worked on Guild Wars 2.

[dozer2143]

oh i see, with there limited bugget they cant get much done so the are just foucesing on GW2

[DreamWindX]

Yea basically.

[Jangaboo]

wish they stuck with 6 classes from prophecies and stuck with the skill set...it was perfect I thought back then, it just complicated and bloated with each campaign release and additional skills..They could release expansion packs but pure content or new gametypes maybe

[TacoEqualsFtw]

PvE ruined one of the best games I've ever played in my life.

Long live the prophecies days.

[voidthemain]

Mr DreamWindX, as i know some ppls working in Anet, i can tell you that GWII will be a lot based on pvp, you will be able to make pvp chars like in GW but, everything will be already unlock, no need to unlock with factions, its free to play for sure and it will be a lot of pvp tourny, so basicaly all that anet realy add is a pve dimention(whitch is realy limited in GWI) so it will attracked more players but for sure the pvp is even more developpe than in GWI

[DreamWindX]

I'm not convinced.

Everything that Anet has ever said about PvP has been a lie. They have not shown any competence in running a competitive game.

So about Guild Wars 2, they are going to have to show me, because I am not convinced. They fact that they are devoting even more time to PvE just supports my argument that PvP will be worse. I cannot possibly see how they will ever make great PvP again like it was back in Prophecies and some of Factions.

[voidthemain]

well first they will introduce different kinda of new pvp, like dungeon battle ( another kinda gvg but with owning town and dungeon ) there will be still gvg and also different other kind of pvp(that they dont say what it will be yet cause its "secret")

and i dont agree with when you say that they dont show any competence in running a competitive game when we know that GW was the first game to offer pvp chars

[voidthemain]

and when you a bit in gvg world, game is extremly competitive, what killed GW and why its so so dead now its because of 2 mistakes from anet:

too much add on whitch mean too much skill and skill balanced even more hard, lots of overpower shit that make ppls RQ

the automatique tournements also kinda make a massive leave on players even tho the game was already dead since june 2006

[akioshun]

I feel that the key to Guild War2's Success lies not soley in PvP, but rather the community as a whole that has been built up in this 2 years.

Guild War's PvP Makes it unique as a CORPG, but in order for Guild Wars to thrive on, focusing on PVP alone will not, imo, allow for it to happen.

Strike a balance, impress both pve&pvp players. This is how i predict the direction for development of GW2.

[LoSeRLuCk1]

who says they can put more time into pvE and have PvP be worse? the main thing for a game is for it to be fun...so pve and pvp have to be fun..otherwise if you don't have one then you lose one type of players...btw....i think gw is pretty good and fun now...can't wait for GW2 xD

[voidthemain]

but i believe anet when they says it will be pvp cause its the purpose of GW, they just want more money by extending the pve(cause pve part in GW I is boring tbh) but it will be all good for us too cause more money = more tournements ;)

[DreamWindX]

We will see. Hope you are right.

I am just saying I am not expecting much at all. I didn't buy Eotn for this reason, and I'm not buying GW2 until I see some real evidence that the PvP is good.

[Akaraxl3]

Posting once more, as I've read all the comments that came before mine. If you're really that big of a fan of GW PvE, do not look forward to GW2. If ANet really is going to make GW2 more of a MMORPG, it'll ultimately fail.

Why? Simple. Because WoW is better.

[DreamWindX]

From my point of view, it seems Anet is more focused on competing with WoW directly in their Guild Wars 2 announcement. Their leaning towards PvE in Guild Wars 1 is a testament to this trend.

Unfortunately, they didn't realize that PvP was what made their game truly special.

[lkjsadfhkjh]

WoW spent millions more on development than any publisher is willing to budget, and MMOs with a fraction of the playerbase remain very profitable.

GW2 is having a stronger PvE emphasis because it does a better job of attracting players. The later GW installments did the same.

It wasn't PvE that destroyed the game with Nightfall, it was power creep, overbuffs, and slow balancing.

[DreamWindX]

I agree that power creep, overbuffs, and slow balancing were a large part of the decline of PvP.

However, I am arguing that PvE is the reason that all of these occurred. GW was an Anet experiment, and they decided that PvE was more profitable to them, and thus devoted more resources to it. PvP declined because of this.

GW2 will be almost strictly PvE, and anyone who doesn't think so clearly can't see the light in front of their eyes.

[lxutz]

The fact is, there's too much. 4 campaigns all add up to a whole lot of skills. In GvG you can run balanced, huge smite pressure, hexes, bspike, Pack Hunters split, SFway, Sins, etc. There's too much variation and ONE build won't win it all. Even in the factions championship, you saw there was huge variation - with that bspike, the Mesmer lucked out by bringing Cry. If anything, Guild Wars is MUCH harder than before because you have so many different things you have to counter against.

[shoes2shoes]

"the game is dead" is the high end playerbase refering to all the well known good players who quit because the game takes less skill to win now. More players are competent but less players are down right unbeatable.

[DreamWindX]

Thank you for your insightful post. Its sad that most people don't realize these facts.

[Akaraxl3]

The "all the good players left" is kind of a dead horse, and not a fully reasonable argument: I think it's easier to win (build wars), but harder to play (tons more stuff to take into consideration compared o back then).

One comment I'd risk is: could it be that, instead, less players are unbeatable because the absence of GWWC doesn't give anything to strive for? That in the end, no one is willing to really commit except for self-gratification?

[foulerfowl]

Good micro and positioning isn't nearly as rewarded anymore.

Reading individual opponents isn't nearly as rewarded anymore.

Good battlefield awareness and having great concentration for multitasking isn't...you get the point.

Having a high number of individual abilities is no substitute for *rewarding good execution*. The execution skill gap between a good player and a great one matters less than ever before.

Harder to play my ass.

[Akaraxl3]

I take it you currently play this game competitively, foulerfowl? Or are you one of the guys that sit on irc channels and talk shit without even playing anymore?

If you have to make up statements, at least back it up with some reasons/examples. The game may have switched to a more macro approach, sure, but need I remind you of Distortion mesmers? Or should we talk about edenial spam and gale locks?

[Akaraxl3]

Playing one of the original core classes is now harder than before because the number of potential threats you'll be facing has dramatically increased, while your slots are still 8. I played flagger for a couple years and, back then, Blinding Flash was enough to keep a ranger useless and Healing Breeze kept you safe most of the time. Now you have an easy, all purpose removal called Mending Touch and assassins blowing you up, forcing you to make your runner even more defensive.

[Akaraxl3]

If you're running balanced and don't have an obvious build advantage, PLAYING will be harder. But if you're running some weird shit, WINNING will be much, much easier than it was with most of the oldschool gimmicks.

[Akaraxl3]

The massive power creep that came with Nightfall made it so 1 2 3 4 5 assassins can achieve stuff with barely any player skill at all, and tabspace teams can easily noobstomp guilds 8on8 by simply disabling LoD (that's what even top guilds do). The reason why people bring along "easy win tickets" such as Splinter Weapon is because you -need- them. You don't want to cripple yourself by not running VoD cards, or defense balls.

[Akaraxl3]

The game is harder for balanced players in a way that, if you don't bring those specific safeguards, you're fucked. Most of the time only excellent build executions or tactical choices can save you from a blatant build disadvantage.

This is what I meant with yesterday's comment: good players are still around, but the game doesn't allow them to stand out from the lamers. I guess the concept wasn't conveyed well enough... sorry bout that.

[shoes2shoes]

im pretty sure what happened was new skills brought into the game in later campaigns were too easy to use so shitty players were able to compete, and good players were able to diminate if they had a biased build. "guild wars is dead" is refering to all of the good players who left because the game is based more on build than skill now. before you could win with almost anything

[qvtkc]

I win. :D

[DreamWindX]

Nope I got last good debate in!!!

[skellaton]

OMFG!! Wind, you need to GET A LIFE. You've LOST this debate, ok. Guild Wars is GREAT and as far as i'm conserned, it'll be a LONG time before the game dies. No matter how long you complain, it's useless. gvtkc as far as i'm conserned, you PWNED Wind in this debate. GW PvE will win over GW PvP as long as PvP stays the same. Oh and i'm not saying that PvE is better than PvP and viceresa. LONG LIVE GUILD WARS (I just had to say that)!!

[DreamWindX]

LOL!!! I guess thats why my previous 4 posts had absolutely no response, why most of the PvP community including all old Korean guilds have left, and why recent magazines gave Gw:en horrible ratings?

Keep living in your bubble son.

[DreamWindX]

Bwahahaha I got the last word on this. I win the argument. Bwahahahha.

[NickTheN00b]

i HATE a net!

[SoducaStyle]

sry but... PvP is not Pve and if u dont like Pve i m sure ur just a nooby ***** cause i dont say pvp destroyx ower pve skillz OMFg shut the fuck and and keep playing gw for fun nobody need this shit about be the best in pvp and oh im rank 1 wow now im good or what stupid rubbish

[DreamWindX]

Rofl...I would respond to this but its so poor I won't entertain it.

[Endrosz]

"Most new players start in PvE. When they visit areas for organized PvP, they see elitism. Then they are turned away from it. THAT is what "killed PvP", not that it's dead, but I see your point."

I agree wholeheartedly, with both points. PvP is not dead, but GW in general in not so PvP-oriented as it was envisioned.

[DreamWindX]

The only thing I even remotely agree with is that Guild Wars needs more casual easy access into PvP. It isn't the players' fault that this doesn't exist though. Its Anets fault. Stop placing blame where it doesn't belong.

[qvtkc]

The "old days" you talk about are gone, and an estimated 80% of GW players own all campaigns + EotN, so your $200 talk is worth as much as the rest of your arguments.

...and you still didn't show how your "video evidence" is any kind of proof.

[DreamWindX]

The old days are not gone...new player can't get into PvP because of the cost involved and PvE barriers. That is common knowledge. Elitism is just an excuse.

And of course the paradox works...you couldn't even answer it. Instead you compared it to racism which is the most disturbing thing I've heard all day.

Lastly, this video is evidence that Guild Wars was built from the ground up to be PvP. I didn't claim it was anything else.

[qvtkc]

Yes you did, you said "I have proven ..." however, you seem to have deleted that post. I wonder why? :)

As a new player - that is, new to PvP, not to GW - you don't need to unlock all skills (you probably have loads unlocked already), and even if you did, no one wants you in your team. That is the problem. Elitism may be motivated, but it's still elitism.

Ask yourself why Starcraft is such a great, well known game for tournaments. It's because it's easy to play it on a small scale.

[qvtkc]

About your paradox: No. I did not compare it to racism, I compared it to sociosystemic rejection, which is not the same thing. A high ranked team has a larger chance of winning, that much is entirely true.

BUT - motivated elitism is still elitism. And it is still highly demotivating to new players. Therefore, your paradox doesn't work since it's meaningless and completely misses the point.

[DreamWindX]

I didn't delete any posts. I probably did use the word proof because evidence IS proof.

Your new player comment just goes to show how PvE really killed PvP. Most players start on PvE and know nothing about PvP. The game is no longer known as a PvP game like it should have been all this time.

Starcraft is easy to play on a small scale, and Guild Wars should have been too...but PvE barriers...

[qvtkc]

Evidence is not proof. Proof requires you to show how your evidence actually proves anything. You didn't do that, because you can't.

Exactly. Most new players start in PvE. When they visit areas for organized PvP, they see elitism. Then they are turned away from it. THAT is what "killed PvP", not that it's dead, but I see your point.

[DreamWindX]

So much to respond to. I have given the evidence that the game is going a different direction than originally intended. If you take it to mean something other than what it is supposed to be, then thats your problem and not the evidence.

[DreamWindX]

The elitism argument is a joke as far as I'm concerned. I see elitism in PvE all the time. I can't get into groups because I don't have required title or if I bring a build that doesn't suit the area. To say they go to PvP and are turned off by elitism is a joke. That elisism is only in PvP is perception not reality.

And I don't care that this exists in PvE. Players want to beat an area using optimal players and builds. So be it, I team with others and beat it.

[qvtkc]

Starcraft wasn't known as a PvP game when it started. But Blizzard realized that you had to make your players actually *play* PvP to have a PvP game. And I don't mean just the top 5%.

Having people face the world elite every time they want to play PuG PvP breeds elitism since it's the only way to win anything. It has nothing to do with PvE barriers.

[DreamWindX]

The decline of PvP has EVERYTHING to do with PvE barriers. Guild Wars originally was more PvP oriented. Most players played PvE though. Anet realized this and changed their plans for the game. This leads to less time for PvP. Not only that, but PvE changes the way PvP works, and not the other way around. All of these add up to a failure.

[DreamWindX]

You compared it to racism, for this reason: There is a HUGE difference between being rejected for skin color and rejected because of experience.

People are rejected REGULARLY in the real world. If you aren't good enough, you aren't getting that job or into that university.

If people can't handle that others are simply better and won't accept them yet, then I have a feeling they are in for a rude awakening.

If you get rejected for skin color, thats a crime. The paradox stands.

[qvtkc]

I compared it to the feeling of rejection that stems from racism, not racism itself.

Yes people are rejected regularly. But do you think it's fun being The Fat Kid Who Are Picked Last? No? Then you should realize that that is how every player new to PvP feels. They don't think it's fun, so they leave.

That might make them scrubs. Doesn't matter, you need people playing, and 99% of people *are* scrubs, and you need them playing too.

[ShivaTwoDelta]

1/3 "People are rejected REGULARLY in the real world. If you aren't good enough, you aren't getting that job or into that university."

Tell me about it. I may have qualities, but as long as I dont have a diploma noone will care. Just like there are so many potential pro pvp-ers just begging to get in a team in HA. But because they can't show their o so pro rank, no decent group will care for them.

[ShivaTwoDelta]

2/3 Tho, the moment you reach a rank that's concidered "pro" for some reason, it means you turned into a pro. Yea, r5 with 999 fame means u cant do ritspike. BUT, the second you get that one more fame, boom.. pro and u suddenly know how to play a build !

That's what you believe in. Narrowminded elitism that you try to defend with every possible and impossible argument u can think of.

[ShivaTwoDelta]

3/3 While you don't have to do more than just open your eyes and witness the arogant behaviour of self declaired "pro's" in HA id1.

You blame the wrong things for pvp to starve out, you could see the truth and give everyone a chance. Kick after you saw someone play instead of before anyone gets a chance, closing the door. By leaving that door open you could make the comunity grow and pvp competition would only get more interesting.

[DreamWindX]

And no I don't care about somebody having 1 more rank to join my team. But I DO care about people having experience. I don't have time to get onto the game and teach people how to play.

And having that "diploma" is required. Even if there are people without it that are capable, it is FAR less likely. PvP takes a lot of work to be good at, and most of the people complaining about elitism want to be carried to wins by better players.

[qvtkc]

That paradox didn't even work when Aristotle formulated it more than 2000 years ago. Why would it work for you?

Players turn away from PvP because they see the "lf r9+" lines and think "they don't want me". It's the same feeling a black man has when he sees "whites only" signs.

[qvtkc]

Pure BS. WoW has more PvPers because all you need to do is grind for nice gear. When the epitome of player skill is to be able to time two skills to each other (slam + MS), or to be able to set up a macro (three-minute mage...) you know that it's not really a competetive game.

The barrier of entry is due to elitism. You can cry about scrubbiness as much as you want, the fact still exists that you can't visit HA without seeing "lf blabla r7+".

[DreamWindX]

In the old days of Guild Wars, you had to grind for weapons and armor swaps to properly play PvP as well.

Your barrier to entry is due to elitism comment is ridiculous and tells me you don't know what you are talking about. New players can't play PvP because:

A. It now costs over $200 to have access to all skills.

B. You still have to unlock everything.

C. The prepartion time to play proper PvP is out of control.

[DreamWindX]

Elitism due to rank is also a joke claim. Answer this simple question for me:

Does rank matter to you?

If it doesn't matter, then simply go play with other unranked. If it matters, then you shouldn't expect ranked to accept you into a group if you are unranked.

[qvtkc]

I posted a comment but it wasn't added.

I meant the share of PvPers, such as, you might have 10% of GW players active in PvP, but 40% of WoW players. I know that WoW PvP is terrible.

There is no need to disprove your statements, as they are not proof of anything. Elitism, not PvEers ruined GW PvP. (not that it *is* ruined, but anyway)

[DreamWindX]

First of all, its already basically been proven through other channels that everybody complaining about elitism is scrubby anyways.

On to your comments. WoW PvP has a higher share because Blizzard knows how to run a competitive game. Anet does not. They didn't even realize how great their PvP product was, so kept it incredibly difficult to get in to for new players. Barrier of entry=ridiculous. For Anet to continue existing, they put 90% of their resources into PvE, as opposed to Blizzard.

[qvtkc]

I didn't say WoW has more PvPers (it has). I said it has a greater *share* of PvPers. As in, say 10% of GW players are active in PvP, but 40% of WoW players are active in PvP.

Your "video evidence" is just that, evidence, not proof. There is no need to prove you wrong because you haven't said anything to prove that you are right.

[qvtkc]

If PvE'ers ruined the game and made it be like WoW, explain this:

1) Why does every rebalance base on PvP?

2) How does PvE grind affect PvP? 0.o

3) Why does WoW have a larger share of PvP'ers than GW has?

What ruined GW PvP is elitism. Newbies are not allowed into the closed circles of high-level PvP, so those circles will dry up until there are no "skilled" players left ("skilled" according to the people inside those circles).

[DreamWindX]

1. Rebalance is based on PvP because PvP REQUIRES balance. PvE ruins this balance because of people whining...like soul reaping.

2. PvE affects PvP because Anet puts most of its resources into grind now, hence titles.

3. WoW has more PvPers because they have more PvE players playing the PvP. WoW PvP is also terrible, and GW has good PvP, but more people know about WoW because Anet did not promote their product like they should have.

[ShivaTwoDelta]

I can't stand the nitwits going "PVP rules, pve is noob". They just limit themself. U may rock in HA, but it doesnt make u a pro. Master all of gw, both pvp AND pve and then talk again. I seen high ranked HA players play like a serious noob in pve missions.

And for those who think I'm a "pve noob", I try to be good at both, with +4000 game hours behind me, 3 campaigns beated on masters level in both normal as hard mode, 141 gladiator and +600 famepoints, I think I'm doing a good job so far.

[edisGW]

wath is PvE lol I now wath is PvP but PvE dont cann some one repley me plz

[jazzbunny]

urm this is a pointless argument - GW provides for both pve and pvp - it is not a question of which is better - I like to do both.

[DreamWindX]

That PvP is what made their game unique.

[DreamWindX]

Why is majority PvE? Same reason WoW has sold millions...players like grind and hate pressure. Most people can't deal with the fact that PvP actually requires skill.

The reality is many people have to struggle through life, so they would rather not play PvP which requires "icky" thought processes and skill. They would rather mindlessly PvE. That is why WoW sells...it feeds those types. Anet, in $ desperation, is going along with that, instead of realizing the truth..

[sablephoenix]

And yet the majority of the Guild Wars audience plays primarily PVE.

Oh snap!

[DreamWindX]

Lol...so many PvE players that can't accept the truth. I have given undenyable evidence on what GW was supposed to be. It is not taken out of context either...the founder is CLEARLY referencing a PVP event when talking about the building of the game. How much easier is that to understand?

[TaliaNightheart]

Nah, show me some hard proof from the game devs themselves and maybe I'll agree with you. I've got their IGN's if you want.

That comment was very vague, and you're only bending it to reference what you want it to, because you're so desperate to have people sympathise with your point of view. Honestly, why can't you just face the fact that..

[TaliaNightheart]

..the majority of the people, plain and simple, just don't prefer pvp? Games generally evolve from their 'original' intended ideas due to the ever evolving 'player base'. You have to keep your customers happy, and since most of GW players are PvE, ANET would be dumb not to focus mainly on PvE. They are, after it is all said and done, a company - and if you had any business sense whatsoever you'd understand.

[DreamWindX]

I have shown you VIDEO evidence. Until further evidence arises I win. Also, the argument that he doesn't mean PvP is absurd. He is clearly referencing a PvP event with his comment.

Lastly, of course I know Anet is chasing the money dumping PvP and going with PvE. That is the entire tradegy that has happened with the game and the point I'm trying to make. GW2:WoW edition, here we come.

[TaliaNightheart]

Oh, right. How could I forget that your word reigns supreme over everyone elses, because you think you're, I dunno, the all knowing Guru of everything GW. It's pointless even trying to debate this with you because you are just hellbent on forcing your jaded opinion on everyone that has commented here thus far. I've said this for a year now, if you absolutely hate the direction the game is going in, quit and get over it.

[DreamWindX]

I am not right when proven wrong. I have video evidence sitting right in front you. Prove it wrong.

[br00talDeth]

I can accept the fact that it was meant to be a PvP game if you can accept the fact that you're a blubbering QQer who needs to fill my \_/ QQ cup with your tears.

QQ moar.

[br00talDeth]

Also, if they wanted it to be REALLY competitive, they would've pulled a Counter-Strike and chose not to integrate PvE play and made it PvP only.

[J4zzAndSm0k3]

nice vidio m8ty i liked the last statement, and is very true... the problem is not pvp VS pve, but the competivity in them, atm none,

btw! pve competivity waths that? cookie cutters builds in HM? orly?

[oOTrSOo]

i agree with TJvigilante there. if the pve part is worse than the pvp part, people would play pvp more. but obviously it isnt, so stop whining and find another game if you care about pvp that much :)

[Amaphetamine]

In the second video, he doesn't literally say it's built for PvP. He just says it's meant to be competitive.

Now competitive can be interpreted in many different ways, .. , PvE can be competitive aswell.

[Yanman88]

What video is this from?

[infiltrat0r]

interesting footage, but your piecing of them together, is uter FAIL lulz, u R t3h sux

[DreamWindX]

I was too lazy to piece it together properly. The points still remain valid regardless.

[krondisc]

We'll always have Leipzig, baby. They can't take that away from us.

[TJvigilante]

Boo Hoo?

If people preferred PvP over PvE, they'd play PvP more. PvP is dying because PvP'ers found PvE to be better. The game didn't force people away from PvP, the people left on their own. They had the choice.

[TaliaNightheart]

Thank you, you hit the nail on the head. I don't know how many times I've said the same thing.

Also Epistolary, I love you, lol. I'm also completely sick of all these 'z0mg GW is going to die because there is not enough pvp - gg ANET' people trying to force their negativity and ruin everyone elses play experience because they aren't happy with the way GW is. Honestly, I don't think ANet could have done any better than they have with the game to this day.

[Epistolary8]

Pfft. Yet another negligible video about the inevitable collapse of the Guild Wars franchise because it failed to conform to the expectations of the minority. Do something more worthwhile with your time. Every day I praise Anet for putting so much emphasis on PvE, or else I would never have bothered playing the game.