I certainly believe God spoke through the prophets in the Bible I certainly do Believe the Bible to be the word of God, I do believe that God loves every person, He is no respector of persons, but He will judge every person, based on what we do with Jesus Christ. John 3:36 Though there is some evidence of a small civilization on the American continent in Ancient times, there is no good evidence at all for civilizations as massive as the BOM talks about, the BOM contradicts the Bible.
though the meso-american anicent culture is massive. also please state how the BoM contradicts the Bible, since that is a bold statement without saying anything else. Thank you and God Bless
The BoM teaches three days of total darkness that covered the earth, from the time of Jesus death, to the time He rose from the dead, I've posted a video on this if you want to see it. If you compare 2 Nephi 12:9 with Isaiah 2:9 you will see a contradiction. Joseph Smith copied Isaiah 2 into the BoM as 2 Nephi 12, and contradicted the Bible in verse 9. Read a couple verses before and after to see the problem here. I have several videos posted, that point out several other problems.
the bible needs defending, Christians needed defending. What history have you been studying. There must be oppostion in all things, look where you live it might not be. But many people have cases against the Bible. They sound very logical, but i know the Bible is the word of God through the Holy Spirit, that same feeling is presense when i read the Book of Mormon
There has been many many MANY credible evidences for the bible in ALL aspects. True, you should not go by "proof" to convince someone that God is real..but the BoM has shocking evidence to its credibility, that one must wonder about its worth and truthfullness.
All I hear from Mormon's is "just pray about it"......"I KNOW its true"...
Faith must be built on solid rock and must start with the head and commen sense.... then to the heart. Mormon's faith is built on "feelings"
Thank you, but i have, i love history, a little too much. Look i left the catholic church cause i studied their history, dont you think i would do the same with LDS. I went to LDS sources, flat out anti-mormon sources, and neutral. There is a lot of stuff that the Book of Mormon claimed, which many thought untrue, but over time has been proven, i.e. concrete, elephants in jaradite times, horses, remeants of hebrew lanuage, swords, geograpical support, they FOUND bounitful, and more,
I'm hearing ya, but I'm not buying into the "evidence". Recently I found out that a LDS Schoolar confessed that the BoM is more of a concept than history. More and more people are awakening to this. The church is in decline. (I mean this in no offence :)
Even look at the life of JS and BY, its amazing that their words and prophercies contradict and pull down Christ. Mormonism is completly differen't to Christianity.
I'm off snowboarding for the W/E, so I'll reply to you in a couple of days
I cant pray about a book being true if I can know about find out if the Bible is true with out praying about why not the BOM?? or any other book that says is the WORD of GOD
Evidence is the changed life that occurs when you read apply the teachings of Christ found in the scriptures. The power to overcome sin that comes from the ordinances (Baptism and so on) is the evidence in my life that the Church is true. One of the most misunderstood things in the CHurch (agreed) is that the Holy Spirit is NOT your emotions (aka feelings), though strong feelings may be present it is not the same thing. The evidence for me is much more than "Feeling good"
Yes, they could. And I could not prove that they did not know that. So your argument doesn't really take us anywhere.
My point is that if anyone actually lived the doctrines that our Church teaches, they would also know that they are from God. That they are the words of Christ.
I know that LDS folks come off as arrogant (gets on my nerves). I am just here to be a witness to what I believe to be true, and be as helpful as I can to keep the dialogue going.
Hey thanks for replying. I'm in no way an anti-mormon. I even have Mormon mates. Just alot of people here on you-tube can be rude, so I appreciate your cool and calm response :)
I am Christian, but not only do I have the required faith (most important)..I also have historical, archaeogical(spelling?), accurate recordings, and sound scripture etc, to back me up.
How do you know that you're scripture is from Christ?..could you be deceived by a false prophet?
wow - this is actually a rare moment. And... it's actually made my entire week. People of different faiths having a calm and reasonable discussion! As a point of reference, I am disappointed by the arrogant tone of some LDS posters on youtube. President Hinckley (former prophet) even commented on it.
Great question. Yeah, we could be deceived - from a scientific method stand point. My answer is - I know the same way you came to know.
Additionally, I have studied the scriptures every day of my life for the past 30 years. I read all scripture. My favorite parts are the Gospel of John (esp. chapter 1) & it's comparative addition in Doctrine & Covenants 93.
When I read the scriptures the Holy Spirit teaches me things that no man could. I have received thousands of answers to pressing questions that have led me in the right path. The answer to your question is that through them I have received personal revelation.
I do know the bible is the WORD of GOD but I dont think that the BOM is.
thats why I whould love to get some books on it like a few commentary. but being as poor same I am and no books store has them where I am. Ill have to want and hunt online. if you have any you like plz pm me the names and where I can find it. and I thank you for your time
John 7:17. This is the only way to find out. Even if we had:
(1) The actual gold plates
(2) A verifiable independent scholarly testimony (or many) that the translation of the ancient characters as found in the BoM was 100% correct
We would still not know that the Book of Mormon was the word of God. All we would know was that Joseph Dug up some old plates and translated them word for word. The only way is to do as John 7:17 says. And we are not talking about warm fuzzy feelings....
guitarrulz221-Heres how i see it, i dont see why people make a big deal and try to make the mormons seem like bad people..its stupid, i mean u dont see any of us going out of our way to try and make any other church out there looke bad, you believe what u believe, and we'll believe what we believe..everyone has the right and power to choose there beliefs. if u think were wrong in the way we believe well try and help u understand, you dont have to agree with us but we will help you understand
For the most part, the Mormon has never clearly understood the gospel of Jesus Christ because his church has so distorted Christian teaching. The outcome of this distortion is that Joseph Smith has tried to stripp Jesus of His gift to mankind
The church teaches that it ALONE is the only hope for salvation. Bruce McConkie, the Mormon scholar, says this regarding salvation: "If it had not been for Joseph Smith and the restoration, there would be no salvation. There is no salvation outside of the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints."
joseph smith was a pervert psycho! just check out his medical records in his hometown Palmyra. mormons are morons who believe in bullshit. jesus was the bastard kid of mary having sex with joseph
In a more plain sense, this is a true statement. If Joseph Smith had not come and restored the keys of the priesthood, or the authority to baptise, then really, no baptism is valid. The only church that has the authority to perform valid baptisms that are acceptable to the Lord, is the Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter-Day Saints.
Volume One of Doctrines of Salvation says this about Joseph Smith: "No salvation without accepting Joseph Smith. If Joseph Smith was verily a prophet, and if he told the truth...then this knowledge is of the most vital importance to the entire world. No man can reject that testimony without incurring the most dreadful consequences, for he cannot enter the Kingdom of God."
Also a true statement. This same statement can also be applied to ANY of the Lords prophets, including Moses, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Isaiah, or the Apostles, not JUST Joseph Smith. Do you really think you can reject the Lords anointed messengers and still think youre in His good grace?
Really! Well We sure Can! And so can Brigham Young: "No man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial Kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph. . . ." "He reigns there as supreme a being in his sphere, capacity, and calling as God does in heaven."{22} So for the Mormon, Joseph Smith has become the savior.
ALL the Prophets and Apostles from EVERY dispensation (yes, including this one) will sit in judgement in subordination to the Savior. (When said time of judgement comes for us all)
Joseph Smith said that Christ Lives, and that there is God ourFather in Heaven. And they sought his life for saying what the other churches all claimed they believed.
Uh, no, Joseph Smith was NOT killed because of his religious beliefs. Do you really think that angry mob cared about his feelings on theology? No! They were angry because Smith was attempting to set up a theocracy and consolidate local power in the Nauvoo area. Wherever they went, Mormons were seen as arrogant and exclusive, and when Smith illegally destroyed that printing press it touched off a firestorm of anger.
Do some non-Mormon reading on the subject, you'll learn a lot.
@SciencI really don't give two buffalo shits about the reasons for murdering Hyrum and Joseph, the politics involved or what Non LDS think justifies the murders.
The fact is Joseph was never once found guilty of a single crime. LDS had their lands stolen confiscated and exploited. Their sons and Fathers murdered and wives and daughters brutalized and raped. Their children ran homeless into the ice fields and their farms barns and cabins burnt behind them. Legalized murder. Dont lie & justify.
You're the one lying, you ignoramus. Smith was fined for running an illegal bank, the Kirtland Safety Society. He was also found guilty of being a con artist ("glass looker") in 1826. He also fled several times to new places in order to avoid arrest.
Mormons killed too. Have you forgotton the Mtn Meadows Massacre? The Danites? The various "Mormon Wars" in 3 states?
Oh he was fined for someone else screwing over the Churches financial System? You have no clue what the Banks were even like in 1830. It was a far stretch from your little Debit Card fees of today. Glass looking was a Charge idiot. I can place charges on you for anything and get benchwarrant if needs be. But it doesn't mean your guilty. Jospeh was never ever found Guilty of the charge in 1826.
If I had family at Hauns Mill, or died from murdering Mobs, I'd be mad at MMM myself. Youre stupid.
I have every clue as to how it was back then, kiddo. You can't fool me with your lies... I studied the Mormon faith from both sides, and I know the truth. He was fined $1K for running an ILLEGAL bank. He BROKE THE LAW. He bankrupted many Mormons- & many left the church. HALF the Quorum of the 12 blamed him, includ Parley P. Pratt. In 1838, with a warrant out for his arrest, he ran away to Clay County, Missouri just ahead of an armed group out to capture and hold him for trial!
there was a mitochondria test that was done on the native americans and the jews and it showed that the native americans did not have the same pattern because the mitochondria is passed down by the mothers, so they did not have the same mothers. Also if you go to Asia you will find similar languages and tools that the native americans have suggesting that they crossed the Bering Strait as science has already proved.
(pt 1)I was a Rastafarian for 7 years.I'm VERY much aware of what a fundamentalist cult is like. Hiding behind words or righteousness and love. When the whole time they ONLY carry love for each other. They say they "love" everyone. But they really mean.."I pity your ignorance and lack of seeing the REAL God.so I love you..(you poor ignorant bastard who is going to burn in hell unless you accept MY views and ONLY my views). I've been exactly like you...a pleaser of man. U do this to please man.
Howdy! I just want to clarify that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is in no way affiliated with the FLDS church which was and is on the news.
For example, it's just like if you belong to the Catholic church, and a new church comes out called the Fundamentalist Catholic church. They are not the same church, and so it is with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints and the Fundamentalist LDS church.
"The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is in no way affiliated with the FLDS church which was and is on the news."
Interesting...that is a big reason how the "false churches" became false in past time right? Because they kept expanding and changing from the ORIGINAL message and keeping the Body of Christ as one and not divided. Looks like the only "true" church is becoming divided and torn also. Now you have contradictions in prophecy..both with the name LDS. Sounds confusing.
I can't tell..are you really interested, or are you just trying to bash?
But, to answer your question...back in time after Christ's death, the people eventually killed all of the Apostles (Peter, James, John, etc) who had all of the priesthood authority on the earth.
b/c of this, the Lord's church was no longer on the earth. This is called the Apostasy. The Savior then brought back and restored His church in its fullness on the earth called The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.
(2)"If you ONLY love those whom love you..what love do you have?" I'm sorry..but I see the Mormons as 95% really good people. Who are following 5% of the Anti Christ. Mormonism...like JW..like ALL sects is "bastardizing" Christianity. Christ was VERY clear about division. Why are you not following Gods Word? Why did you allow yourself to divide away from Christ? Guess what Church I belong to? NONE! But guess what I'm not gonna do..start a NEW church.just because all you guys are defiling Christ.
(part3) Because then...I become another one of YOU. Another hopless person who allowed the words and actions of MAN...to trick me into forgetting that Christs message was FULL. I have an 8 year old daughter whom I love more than you know. If her mother stopped loving her today...should I walk away from my daughter also?
Should I abandon her because her mom did? Isn't that what "denominations are doing?". Leaving Christ cause of some other mans doings??
If Jesus tells us that we "cant serve 2 masters at the same time"....where does Joesph Smith fall in? Seems like Mormons are not even "following 2 masters" really though...only "one master" Joseph Smith..and his "New religion"...that he thinks is "better than Christs word"...yet without Christ and the Bible..Joseph Smith wouldnt have a leg to stand on and would have been inspired to write his "own fairy tales". Tell me...where did Jesus word in the Bible lead us wrong? U change his word..why?
Hi there! I'm glad that you mentioned your part3 comments. I hope I can help to bring some light to the subject for you.
Do you believe that there were and are people all over the world? There were people on the American Continent, and in Israel and many other places that we do not know of. All people are God's children. Does it seem right that He would only talk to one group of His children (the Jews), and leave everyone else out? This is why there is additional revelation. He loves us.
Well,first of all,I find it interesting that you answered NONE of my questions. I'm not sure why? If your a "Mormon Defender"..please defend and help me to understand your faith. 2nd..YES I do believe that people were and are all over the world. However I'm not here to debate archeology. (unless you want to). Besides,In my opinion..so WHAT if there were indians that are from 12 tribes? That in NO way changes Christs message of Salvation. Its just another human stumbling block to create division.
i am not mormon, but a few of my friends are. i just don't get (not only about Mormons) but about over all religion. why people can not just live their own lives and stop trying to tell me that all these different churches are wrong.
Because they love you and want to help you. They obviously care about you and want you to be happy. If you are happy where you are, then that is fine. :)
Chris, You seem like a really nice guy. I appreciate your faith, but faith isn't always in something that is true. I am an ex-mormon (by my choice. Here are just a few things for you to ponder:
1. The BOM (which I was taught was 100% correct) has had many changes. You can verify that for yourself.
2. The temple 'ceremonies' have also been changed quite a few times...why were they ever changed if they were given by revelation and were true to start with?
3. How can you have any faith the the BOM was translated correctly when J. Smith got it so wrong on the Book of Abraham? The papyrus scrolls have nothing to do with Abraham.
4. If the LDS church has the truth, why does the church not want its members to question any of its doctrines or even read anything critical of it? Truth can stand any false criticisms.
5. Should interracial couples be put to death? B. Young said they should! Should a prophet be a racist? Is God a racist?
gaspoweredredneck, good questions. Questions that a lot of people have heard of and in turn ask themselves. I like what you said, "Truth can stand any false criticisms" this is so true. I wonder why the Church is one of the fastest growing churches in the world? Over the last 170 some odd years the Church has had these same questions asked over and over, yet the Church keeps growing. Maybe its because "Truth can stand any false criticisms". To your questions...
1. Its true that the BOM has been changed 3,000 to 4,000 times. So does this really affect the truth of the BOM? No! What about the Bible's 100,000+ changes. Do these changes really affect the truth of the Bible? No! Anyway, do you think that the 3k - 4k changes were all doctorine or were they punctuation? I'll let you do some more research on that one.
2. Interesting you say that, have you witnessed those changes? Were they doctorine changes? Who's to say that they couldn't be changed. Would you still be offering sacrifices if the Lord didn't fulfill the law of Moses and go through the Crucifixion & Resurrection? We believe in continuing revelation. Who are we to say that God can't change something?
4. Contrary to this statement, the Church actually supports study and research. Remember from your days as a "Mormon" the simple words of the primary song, Search, Ponder, & Pray! The Church doesn't just teach that to the primary kids and then teach the adults that they can't study the Gospel.
5. Sound like you have a bone to pick with BY. Hey a lot of people do. First and foremost, you got that from the Journal of Discourses.
Who's to say he was teaching doctorine? Our critics have it in their minds that Prophets are perfect, and they can't speak their own mind. Might I remind you, Prophets are people too ... I.E. they can make mistakes too. Keep in mind the mental thought of almost every white family at that time. Most of them thought that slavery was ok. This does not condone that comment, but rather, explains the mindset of BY. God's not racist, God is no respector of persons.
I don't think the LDS prophets are perfect. I just wonder how it is that the church used to teach that we were to live by the words of the prophets, but now, since racism is such a dirty word, The Discourses of B. Young (which used to be proudly printed and studied) can be discarded. Poor old Brigham! I know no one on this Earth is perfect, but don't you think God would have moved on ol' Brigham's heart and helped him to not be such a flaming racist? That is my point, Brigham didn't change!
Chris, I hope you live a happy life and accomplish the things you want to do. I left the church because I found out I had been suckered. I know a lot of great mormon people. The problem I have is with the church, not them. Did you know that it was a fairly common theory at J. Smith's time that the Indians were descendants of the lost tribes of Israel? There was a fictional book written shortly before the BOM that was based on that theory. The author lived about 30 miles from J. Smith's home....
But bom has nothing in common with that ethan smiths book, only the common ancestry, nothing more. that comon belief wich wasn't that common atall, doesn't disproof that weather they did exist or not. There are similiar stories that parallel jesus' birth but are earlier than jesus, so does that prove that jesus didn't exist?? Joseph wasn't racist but young was a product of his time, all the christians were racist, exept few and many mormons were part of these few.
OMG. OMG. DONT BE DUMB. Brigham Young was supposedly a PROPHET!!!! HOLY SHIT. IF HE COULD TALK TO GOD, GOD WOULD HAVE SET HIM STRAIGHT ABOUT BLACKS.
Im sorry for typing, but this just has to end, Mormonism has lived long enough and serving a couple of greedy men only interested in that 10% of your check.
The guy on the video says he'll delete your comments if it has alot of profanity, so it might be good to clean up your messages.
But, to answer your question about tithing... Tithing is something that was instituted in the days of Moses that they "took all the tithes into the storehouse". Tithing was and is instituted of God in days past and today. It is not in pockets of men.
Everything in and on the earth is the Lord's and all He requires back is 10%. We pay it willingly and lovingly.
we are never taught to live by the words of the prophets, smith himself degrees that all teaching must not be in contradiction with the 4 standard works, otherwise it's not a valid doctrine. Any opinnions of the prophets must be set down by the 12 and the presidency with common consent, before it's a binding doctrine, so these common consents are what we are to follow, everything else is just reading that can benefit us or increase scriptural understandings, nothing more.
Joseph Smith wasnt a prophet, Compare him to Moses, a WHOLE NATION saw his miracles and him parting the red sea. Only 5 people saw Joseph, and some of them were FAMILY MEMBERS.
3. I know that. It is part of the 'Pearl of great Price' and usually was in the D&C book. It was considered scripture by the church (at least when I went). I guess that has changed too?
4. If you were to really look with an opened mind at just a small portion of the information debunking the J. Smith story, the BOM, etc., there is no way you would continue on as a mormon. The proof is out there, but I don't think you want to know it. That's your choice.
The Bible was translated from several languages. It was also translated at different times in history. The King James versions is not that easy to ready because English has changed a good bit since that translation was done. By the way, I make no claim that the Bible was translated correctly or that any of it is true. The LDS church used to claim that the BOM was the 'most correct' book on earth. Why so many mistakes if J. Smith had God working with him? Is God not good with English grammar?
The age, growth rate, and number of members has nothing to do with it being true. Islam has been around over 1000 years, has far more members than the LDS church, and is growing faster than the LDS church. Is Islam 'truer' than the LDS church? The number of people that believe something has nothing to do with whether it is true or not. If you stop and really think about it, doesn't the entire J. Smith story seem just a bit outlandish? Why was polygamy stopped if it was an 'eternal' principle?
1. In 2nd Nephi 30:6 where white was change to pure (not grammatical). I was taught that lamenites were cursed much like Cain with dark skin (2nd Nephi 5:21). Wasn't this a PC change so as not to appear racist? God seems to put people down by changing their color?
2. So the truth changes? Sacred ceremonies given to J. Smith aren't true anymore and have to be changed? I heard so many times the church was founded on revelation and its doctrines, temple ceremonies, etc were unchanging. Oh well.
The speed at which the church is growing has nothing to do with whether its doctrines are true. The number of people who believe in anything has nothing to do with its truthfulness. Islam is over 1000 years old, and a lot more members than the LDS church. Does that make Islam true?
First question: how do religious people decide that the bible religions are the right religions? why aren't the other religions the right ones? A lot of bhuddist miracles have been related. And Hindu. And Muslim. And... I don't get it (honestly) The bible is but a few texts, written at different times, in which people believe because their parents did. Now that the world is small and we know there are other things out, why do people still believe in this one?
Second: Why believeing in anything at all? What supports this strange (to me) idea that some supernatural force rules the world. Even though no sure proof supports it, how can someone base his life on it?
Third: who could believe this story of ancient great civilization, since no significant remains have been found, but a book the oldest version we have of is from modern times?
Are you in any specific denomination, sect, creed? If so, you're in a cult. There is nothing wrong with the word cult, Google the definition. Brainwashed? Yea I guess if studying for the last 6 years, reading all kinds of religious books, LDS, NON-LDS, Bible, BOM, D&C, etc... equals brainwashed. I probably know more about your religion than you do, because I have studied Catholism, "JW", Muslim, Born Again, Lutheran, Methodist, Baptist, etc... Don't make those false claims, "get informed" LOL!
What would you say about the fact that J. Smith claimed that God, Jesus, an angel, or which ever you you believe appeared to him, told him it was God's order that there be polygamy? I've read the book of doctrine and covenants where it says that it's the order of God that a man be damned if he doesn't have more than one wife. How do you justify this?
Please give the D&C reference... wait you can't because its not there. Very few mormons practiced polygamy and many of those who didnt practice polygamy were still active members. Polygamy was mainly the result of the many men murdered for their belief in Jesus Christ. Woman at that time didn't work and needed financial providers. Polygamy was stopped in the late 1800's because membership #'s rose, so polygamy wasn't necessary, and it was outlawed, and mormons believe in obeying the laws of USA.
Well, the problem is that I actually held my friends D&C book and read it with my own eyes, so it's not just my opinion that it's there. It's section 132.
Now here's the problem, and the main reason that mormonism is a cult. If they have Gods word, why do the keep changing it? The verses about it in D&C have been changed since I read them from the older D&C book of my friends. God is the same yesterday, today, and forever, so if it's his word and command, it would never change.
Please read the complete secttion of 132. shreddog2049 has misunderstood the section. It talks about the "New and Everlasting Covenant" which includes marriage. If you break the "New and Everlasting Covenant" you are damned. The "New and Everlasting Covenant" in LDS doctrine entails the entire gospel plan, not one individual idea. Celestial marriage is one aspect of the New and Everlasting Covenant.
Until 1890 plural marriage was an acceptable plan of marriage, but not the "New and Everlasting Covenant." However, every gospel covenant is part of the New and Everlasting Covenant.
Within days after the church was organized, Joseph Smith received a revelation which speaks of a new and everlasting covenant (D&C 22:1). Speaking of the apostasy the Lord said, "[They] have broken mine everlasting covenant" (D&C 1:15).
"So I have sent mine everlasting covenant into the world to be a light to the world" (D&C 45:9). Even in the revelation on eternal marriage. Section 132, the first half deals with celestial marriage in the context of a man and his wife, and the rest of the revelation speaks of celestial marriage with plural wives. There is no reason to justify this. Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as also Moses had more than one wife and were not "damned" by God. Why? Because God commanded them to do so.
You just won't look at this rationally. In the first place, J. Smith was a fraud, so the religion itself is a fraud. Second, the Bible is the total and complete Word of God, and needs no new covenant. Specially one that goes against the Bible itself. Now I know all your arguments, so go ahead and tell me that it doesn't contradict the Bible.
We are looking at this the most rational logical way. First off calling JS a fraud is easy, anybody can call someone a fraud. ppl even call Jesus a fraud. You know all my arguments? Ok, I want you to tell me what "arguments" contradicts the Bible.
Ok. That theres another testament of Jesus Christ, when the Bible clearly says let no man add too or take away from the words of this book. That covers all other arguments.
And I call JS a fraud because he wrote 7 different accounts of what happened when he said he got the BoM. First it was Jesus that appeared to him, then it was an angel...
Bottom line is, God's word(the Bible) is whole, so the polygamy alone is enough to show JS a fraud because God doesn't tell us to change His laws, period.
Shreddog the bible is not in chronological order. The word bibile mean a collection of books. John is talking about the book of revelations independently not speaking for the bible as a whole. You can also look up deuteronomy 4:2 and see is says almost the exact same thing as Rev: 22:18-19
I'm not getting through to yall; J. Smith was a fraud so the mormon book isn't something thats worth even talking about because it's just some words that some pervert wrote to start his own religion so he could have a bunch of wives, some of which were younger than 16.
shreddog2049, your comments (debates) are not new. Our critics comment's have been proven wrong for years. You will find that a lot of LDS members are well versed on the Bible and have studied many topics for years. I want to invite you to study the history of the Bible, you will find that your previous comment (addto/take away) is incorrect like what iamlds08 said. If it were true you would have to take away everything after Deuteronomy.
"it's just some words that some pervert wrote to start his own religion so he could have a bunch of wives" like I said before, saying this is easy to say about something you know little about. It sounds like you have heard a lot from a preacher who doesn't like the Mormons. I ask you to please do some studying on your own, just don't listen to your preacher.
You know, if people have been saying the same thing for years, it might be true.... I have no preacher telling me anything either. I went to high school with a mormon girl who I became close with and did allot of research on mormonism.
...to say that it's easy for me to say stuff about J.S. and that I know little about it. I do know about it, thats how I know not to accept mormonism as a part of God.
How long did people say the earth was flat before they were proven wrong? Just because people say something and agree on it for along time doesn't make it true. You must study, investigate, read, ask the One who knows all, etc...to find the truth yourself.
You've got to be kidding...the earth being flat?? Come on, I can't tell you many more times how much research I've done and mormons I've known. You keep missing the bottom line, that it's easy to find out truth about J.S. and the things the church has taught that directly contradict the Bible or make no sense at all.
Have you ever done research yourself about the different accounts J.S. gave about the time he said he got the BoM?
thanks for posting. Wow an open honest debate about the LDS religion. The ANTImormon/EXmormon crowd hates stuff like that. Now if we can just get them to answer questions and think logically.
Have you seen the data for the DNA in the DNA VS. The Book of Mormon video? Any names or numbers? Any thing to prove their clame other than there words, "no DNA hebrew DNA in the americas."? What happends when you go to the nationgeographic website on their DNA trails?
there was a dna test on jews with the sur name of Cohen, which means priest, no matter where they lived in the world, they were found to be geneticaly related.
I am not sure where you get your information. I have a Samoan uncle who loves the church and the gospel and all his Brothers and Sisters are LDS as well as my cousins. They love the happiness the gospel has brought to them.
Come on big guy, you need to watch our DNA videos. You are basing your facts thinking that Lamanite means Hebrew. This is not true. There are many that have made this assumption, but it has been refuted by LDS scholars for years. The Book of Mormon nor the LDS church have ever made an "official declaration" that all Native Americans are of Hebrew descent.
The word Lamanite stands for a religious belief, cultural stance, or political view; in The Book of Mormon. At first it did stand for lineage but soon after the term was broadened to a mean something much larger.
So does the DNA of Samoan's match that of today's Hebrews? No, but that my friend means nothing. Imagine a small band of 10 Hebrews coming to a continent with millions of inhabitants. Do you think that the small band of 10 would show up in a DNA trace thousands of years later. The answer is NO!
Lastly, we did not know the genetic makeup of any people who traveled with Lehi. If you know it that would be very interesting as it is not stated in the Book of Mormon. There are many gaps in your DNA analysis. If you would like to continue this conversation. Please watch our DNA vs. The Book of Mormon videos. Then please comment on those videos. I have written too much on this topic, in replies from critics on those videos. I don't want to have to repeat all of that here too.
The Cochabamba Bolivia Temple was dedicated by President Gordon B. Hinckley in four sessions on 30 April 2000. In his dedicatory prayer, President Hinckley said: "This nation is named for Simón Bolívar, the great liberator of much of South America, who died the year Thy restored Church was organized. May the incomparable principle of democracy be preserved forever in this republic.
Well the dna of the Jews scattered around the world and seperated for thousands of years certainly does match, why not the samoans or the Indians in the Americas ?
Nephi 1:8 "And behold, it is wisdom that this land should be kept as yet from the knowledge of other nations; for behold, many nations would overrun the land, that there would be no place for an inheritance."
The Land of inheritance could not be inhabited by millions already according to the Book Of Mormon.
You have misunderstood this scripture. Also, please note the word OTHER nations NOT ALL nations. Please read the passage in context. If you need I will explain it to you. Anyway, please keep DNA comments on our DNA videos.
We remember before Thee the sons and daughters of Father Lehi. Wilt Thou keep Thine ancient promises in their behalf. Lift from their shoulders the burdens of poverty and cause the shackles of darkness to fall from their eyes. May they rise to the glories of the past. May they recognize their Redeemer and be faithful and true Saints of the Most High." (Remarks at the dedication of the Cochabamba, Bolivia temple, reported in "News of the Church," Ensign, July, 2000, p. 74
"I sense a great spirit of gratitude for this new temple," remarked President Hinckley. "The Saints have waited a very, very long time." He continued: "It has been a very interesting thing to see the descendants of Father Lehi in the congregations that have gathered in the temple. So very many of these people have the blood of Lehi in their veins, (Remarks at the dedication of the Guayaquil, Ecuador temple, reported in "News of the Church," Ensign, Oct. 1999, p. 74)
President Hinckley next visited Lima, Peru, where he met with missionaries and held two conferences attended by a total of 28,000 Latter day Saints. President Hinckley recognized the Book of Mormon heritage of his listeners in Lima: As I look into your faces, I think of Father Lehi, whose sons and daughters you are. I think he must be shedding tears today, tears of love and gratitude. in News of the Church Ensign, Feb 1997 73
digestezine---you must not be reading. Stop replying here and post on my DNA videos. Everything you have talked about has been covered in the chat messages or the videos. I don't want to have to repeat everything! Please do yourself a favor and read my comments before posting here again! I will reply to you on those pages. Thanks for helping us streamline our conversations. This makes it easy for everyone to follow conversations.
see the comments youtube . com/ comment_servlet?all_comments&v=yd0ozhjM-fk&fromurl=/watch%3Fv%3Dyd0ozhjM-fk (take the spaces out of the url) 3/4 down
no that is what some ppl thought of, they liked how it sounded. Just cause some LDS say something doesnt mean it is true. The Church NEVER main a offical statement like that, nor does doctrine support that. Plus BYU even proved that they werent.
"4. Do you believe that God loves all his children, no matter their race ...?" Yes, I do, which is why I could never believe that the profit of LDS, Inc ever could have had special access to God since the God I would believe in would never allow a church to be as racist as LDS, Inc was/is.
The LDS church was not and is not racist! What is your belief in saying so? Is it because blacks were not allowed the priesthood until 1978? You'd be wrong, Elijah Abel, a black man, was given the priesthood in 1833 (3 years after the church was restored) and then ordained a seventy a few years later.
The fact that one man (plus his progeny) was allowed to have the priesthood does not mean that there was not a racist doctrine until 1978 that blacks were not allowed to have the priesthood. By the way, Elijah Abel petitioned Brigham Young several times to be able to attend the temple to have his endowment, but he was denied. Guess blacks, or "darkies" (as Joseph F. Smith called them) didn't deserve to be sealed to their families.
The LDS church does more for people of all race and color in this world. We are the first there and the last to leave.Heavenly Father loves all of his children. Racisim was invented by man not God. Are you yourself not being racist in your comments? Hate is an ugly thing my friend.
Thank you. I find your church fascinating and I am still learning. I understand how your concept of Jesus and God differs from the idea of the trinity now. As far as baptizing the dead, apart from the helpful scriptural explanations, does it have to do with a physical kingdom being set up in america at the second coming? Where in America will this take place? I can't seem to find it online. Thanks again.
Really quick, you guys need to put up a LOT more tags to get noticed. I want your message to get out there, so, please make a few more tags to pick up a larger audience.
Is this like apologetics? It is interesting that you're doing this. I would say I believe the 7 things you have asked. My questions would be... Why is a mortal needed for baptising the dead into your church... couldn't it be done in the spirit realm? And when you pray to "heavenly father" are you praying to God the father or Jesus his son? I look forward to help with these questions. Thanks.
Thank you for your questions. Yes, this is like apologetics. First I assume that you don't believe that you must be physically baptised, hence "couldn't it be done in the spirit realm". We believe its a physical ordinance, reference John 3:5. With out a body it can't be done. We believe Jesus was baptised and we should follow his example. Also this is not a new ordinance we made up, refer to 1 Corinthians 15:29 (common practice)
Since it was part of Christ's church, which was lost(apostasy), it too needed to be restored. We pray to God the Father in Jesus's name. If you need more info, let me know.
This it Mitch---I just wanted to add my two cents as well. Most Christian sects believe in a physical baptism to become Disciples of Christ and to take on his name. What just God would not give this opportunity to all of His children? If He is a just God, then he must provide a way for those who have never heard the name Jesus Christ to accept this physical ordnance (as baptism is essential for salvation).
I would like to point out a very important thing. Jesus Christ performed vicarious works for us---the ultimate example is the Atonement. This was a "physical" ordnance and could not be performed in the "spirit realm." He was also able to take on the sins of the world and become each person's personal savior.
Christ's Atonement is the ultimate example of a vicarious act, a sacrifice done on behalf of all of us. When Paul says baptism "for" or "on behalf of" the dead, he uses the same Greek construction that is used to describe Christ sacrifice "on our behalf." The Greek preposition is "huper," which is often used to convey the representation of one person by another (e.g., in ancient business documents - see Anderson, Understanding Paul, p. 405).
Sephuskal is not the liar here, but ScienceReasonBewildered sure is one hell of a liar.
LDS4Life71 9 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
great video, Chris
LDS4Life71 9 months ago
Comment removed
LDS4Life71 9 months ago
I'am an exmormon and happy mormon chruch not true
woodcchuck2020 9 months ago
@woodcchuck2020 shut your pie hole
LDS4Life71 9 months ago
Go Chris, you rock! I enjoyed this video. I've been inactive for some reason that I don't know, laziness I guess. Maybe it's time to go back.
ennuie2 1 year ago
Now I know who you are. Thanks! Keep up the noble work!
dougdcutler 1 year ago
I certainly believe God spoke through the prophets in the Bible I certainly do Believe the Bible to be the word of God, I do believe that God loves every person, He is no respector of persons, but He will judge every person, based on what we do with Jesus Christ. John 3:36 Though there is some evidence of a small civilization on the American continent in Ancient times, there is no good evidence at all for civilizations as massive as the BOM talks about, the BOM contradicts the Bible.
carterfamily8903 2 years ago
though the meso-american anicent culture is massive. also please state how the BoM contradicts the Bible, since that is a bold statement without saying anything else. Thank you and God Bless
saxaphonedude 2 years ago
The BoM teaches three days of total darkness that covered the earth, from the time of Jesus death, to the time He rose from the dead, I've posted a video on this if you want to see it. If you compare 2 Nephi 12:9 with Isaiah 2:9 you will see a contradiction. Joseph Smith copied Isaiah 2 into the BoM as 2 Nephi 12, and contradicted the Bible in verse 9. Read a couple verses before and after to see the problem here. I have several videos posted, that point out several other problems.
carterfamily8903 2 years ago
Why do you have to defend the Bom?..shouldnt it defend itself?
The BIBLE on the other hand is like a lion - IT DOESNT NEED DEFENDING!!
..ya with me?
cezza57 2 years ago
the bible needs defending, Christians needed defending. What history have you been studying. There must be oppostion in all things, look where you live it might not be. But many people have cases against the Bible. They sound very logical, but i know the Bible is the word of God through the Holy Spirit, that same feeling is presense when i read the Book of Mormon
saxaphonedude 2 years ago
There has been many many MANY credible evidences for the bible in ALL aspects. True, you should not go by "proof" to convince someone that God is real..but the BoM has shocking evidence to its credibility, that one must wonder about its worth and truthfullness.
All I hear from Mormon's is "just pray about it"......"I KNOW its true"...
Faith must be built on solid rock and must start with the head and commen sense.... then to the heart. Mormon's faith is built on "feelings"
RESEARCH
cezza57 2 years ago
Thank you, but i have, i love history, a little too much. Look i left the catholic church cause i studied their history, dont you think i would do the same with LDS. I went to LDS sources, flat out anti-mormon sources, and neutral. There is a lot of stuff that the Book of Mormon claimed, which many thought untrue, but over time has been proven, i.e. concrete, elephants in jaradite times, horses, remeants of hebrew lanuage, swords, geograpical support, they FOUND bounitful, and more,
saxaphonedude 2 years ago
I'm hearing ya, but I'm not buying into the "evidence". Recently I found out that a LDS Schoolar confessed that the BoM is more of a concept than history. More and more people are awakening to this. The church is in decline. (I mean this in no offence :)
Even look at the life of JS and BY, its amazing that their words and prophercies contradict and pull down Christ. Mormonism is completly differen't to Christianity.
I'm off snowboarding for the W/E, so I'll reply to you in a couple of days
cezza57 2 years ago
do you know what Schoolar it was. as I look into many points of view. I think its Van Hal I may be worng.
soory about the spelling
CIRELUX 2 years ago
I cant pray about a book being true if I can know about find out if the Bible is true with out praying about why not the BOM?? or any other book that says is the WORD of GOD
CIRELUX 2 years ago
Don't you understand my posts?
cezza57 2 years ago
Evidence is the changed life that occurs when you read apply the teachings of Christ found in the scriptures. The power to overcome sin that comes from the ordinances (Baptism and so on) is the evidence in my life that the Church is true. One of the most misunderstood things in the CHurch (agreed) is that the Holy Spirit is NOT your emotions (aka feelings), though strong feelings may be present it is not the same thing. The evidence for me is much more than "Feeling good"
lilastroidgirl 2 years ago
A muslim could say the same thing. "I know Islam is true"
His/Her new life in Islam has been changed too.
what now??
cezza57 2 years ago
Yes, they could. And I could not prove that they did not know that. So your argument doesn't really take us anywhere.
My point is that if anyone actually lived the doctrines that our Church teaches, they would also know that they are from God. That they are the words of Christ.
I know that LDS folks come off as arrogant (gets on my nerves). I am just here to be a witness to what I believe to be true, and be as helpful as I can to keep the dialogue going.
lilastroidgirl 2 years ago
Hey thanks for replying. I'm in no way an anti-mormon. I even have Mormon mates. Just alot of people here on you-tube can be rude, so I appreciate your cool and calm response :)
I am Christian, but not only do I have the required faith (most important)..I also have historical, archaeogical(spelling?), accurate recordings, and sound scripture etc, to back me up.
How do you know that you're scripture is from Christ?..could you be deceived by a false prophet?
:)
cezza57 2 years ago
wow - this is actually a rare moment. And... it's actually made my entire week. People of different faiths having a calm and reasonable discussion! As a point of reference, I am disappointed by the arrogant tone of some LDS posters on youtube. President Hinckley (former prophet) even commented on it.
Great question. Yeah, we could be deceived - from a scientific method stand point. My answer is - I know the same way you came to know.
lilastroidgirl 2 years ago
Additionally, I have studied the scriptures every day of my life for the past 30 years. I read all scripture. My favorite parts are the Gospel of John (esp. chapter 1) & it's comparative addition in Doctrine & Covenants 93.
When I read the scriptures the Holy Spirit teaches me things that no man could. I have received thousands of answers to pressing questions that have led me in the right path. The answer to your question is that through them I have received personal revelation.
lilastroidgirl 2 years ago
I do know the bible is the WORD of GOD but I dont think that the BOM is.
thats why I whould love to get some books on it like a few commentary. but being as poor same I am and no books store has them where I am. Ill have to want and hunt online. if you have any you like plz pm me the names and where I can find it. and I thank you for your time
CIRELUX 2 years ago
John 7:17. This is the only way to find out. Even if we had:
(1) The actual gold plates
(2) A verifiable independent scholarly testimony (or many) that the translation of the ancient characters as found in the BoM was 100% correct
We would still not know that the Book of Mormon was the word of God. All we would know was that Joseph Dug up some old plates and translated them word for word. The only way is to do as John 7:17 says. And we are not talking about warm fuzzy feelings....
lilastroidgirl 2 years ago
Keep doing your good work Mormon Defenders! Rawk on!
freaky1654 3 years ago
guitarrulz221-Heres how i see it, i dont see why people make a big deal and try to make the mormons seem like bad people..its stupid, i mean u dont see any of us going out of our way to try and make any other church out there looke bad, you believe what u believe, and we'll believe what we believe..everyone has the right and power to choose there beliefs. if u think were wrong in the way we believe well try and help u understand, you dont have to agree with us but we will help you understand
tkh925 3 years ago
Jesus answered: "Watch out that no one deceives you. 5For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am the Christ,[a]' and will deceive many.
can you say Joe Smith?
splitspeeds 3 years ago
Joe Smith never claimed to be Jesus Christ. So no I can't say Joseph Smith.
MormonDefenders 3 years ago
For the most part, the Mormon has never clearly understood the gospel of Jesus Christ because his church has so distorted Christian teaching. The outcome of this distortion is that Joseph Smith has tried to stripp Jesus of His gift to mankind
splitspeeds 3 years ago
The church teaches that it ALONE is the only hope for salvation. Bruce McConkie, the Mormon scholar, says this regarding salvation: "If it had not been for Joseph Smith and the restoration, there would be no salvation. There is no salvation outside of the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints."
splitspeeds 3 years ago
joseph smith was a pervert psycho! just check out his medical records in his hometown Palmyra. mormons are morons who believe in bullshit. jesus was the bastard kid of mary having sex with joseph
georgiadrew 3 years ago
Thats funny, do you really believe early 1800's American frontier medicine and medical records were reliable?
praetorkambu 3 years ago
In a more plain sense, this is a true statement. If Joseph Smith had not come and restored the keys of the priesthood, or the authority to baptise, then really, no baptism is valid. The only church that has the authority to perform valid baptisms that are acceptable to the Lord, is the Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter-Day Saints.
praetorkambu 3 years ago
Volume One of Doctrines of Salvation says this about Joseph Smith: "No salvation without accepting Joseph Smith. If Joseph Smith was verily a prophet, and if he told the truth...then this knowledge is of the most vital importance to the entire world. No man can reject that testimony without incurring the most dreadful consequences, for he cannot enter the Kingdom of God."
splitspeeds 3 years ago
Also a true statement. This same statement can also be applied to ANY of the Lords prophets, including Moses, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Isaiah, or the Apostles, not JUST Joseph Smith. Do you really think you can reject the Lords anointed messengers and still think youre in His good grace?
praetorkambu 3 years ago
Really! Well We sure Can! And so can Brigham Young: "No man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial Kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph. . . ." "He reigns there as supreme a being in his sphere, capacity, and calling as God does in heaven."{22} So for the Mormon, Joseph Smith has become the savior.
splitspeeds 3 years ago
ALL the Prophets and Apostles from EVERY dispensation (yes, including this one) will sit in judgement in subordination to the Savior. (When said time of judgement comes for us all)
praetorkambu 3 years ago
That is why Paul said:
"IF WE or an ANGEL from HEAVEN preach ANY OTHER GOSPEL" VERY SIMPLE TO UNDERSTAND FOR PEOPLE LIKE YOU!
The BOM IS A Different Gospel, AN ANGEL from Heaven.....Moroni!
He didn't say:"THERE WILL COME ANOTHER GOSPEL FROM AN ANGEL in HEAVEN!
Why don't you listen to VERY CLEAR message from God? Please tell me How it could be more Clear would ya?
The Fact that the Bible can't be used to critique the Book of Mormon & the book of Abraham speaks Volumes about the LDS faith.
splitspeeds 3 years ago
Joseph Smith said that Christ Lives, and that there is God ourFather in Heaven. And they sought his life for saying what the other churches all claimed they believed.
Christ comes again Red Robe and all.
Sephuskal 1 year ago
@Sephuskal
Uh, no, Joseph Smith was NOT killed because of his religious beliefs. Do you really think that angry mob cared about his feelings on theology? No! They were angry because Smith was attempting to set up a theocracy and consolidate local power in the Nauvoo area. Wherever they went, Mormons were seen as arrogant and exclusive, and when Smith illegally destroyed that printing press it touched off a firestorm of anger.
Do some non-Mormon reading on the subject, you'll learn a lot.
ScienceReasonBelief 1 year ago
@SciencI really don't give two buffalo shits about the reasons for murdering Hyrum and Joseph, the politics involved or what Non LDS think justifies the murders.
The fact is Joseph was never once found guilty of a single crime. LDS had their lands stolen confiscated and exploited. Their sons and Fathers murdered and wives and daughters brutalized and raped. Their children ran homeless into the ice fields and their farms barns and cabins burnt behind them. Legalized murder. Dont lie & justify.
Sephuskal 1 year ago
@Sephuskal
You're the one lying, you ignoramus. Smith was fined for running an illegal bank, the Kirtland Safety Society. He was also found guilty of being a con artist ("glass looker") in 1826. He also fled several times to new places in order to avoid arrest.
Mormons killed too. Have you forgotton the Mtn Meadows Massacre? The Danites? The various "Mormon Wars" in 3 states?
You're either a fool or a liar... which is it?
ScienceReasonBelief 1 year ago
Oh he was fined for someone else screwing over the Churches financial System? You have no clue what the Banks were even like in 1830. It was a far stretch from your little Debit Card fees of today. Glass looking was a Charge idiot. I can place charges on you for anything and get benchwarrant if needs be. But it doesn't mean your guilty. Jospeh was never ever found Guilty of the charge in 1826.
If I had family at Hauns Mill, or died from murdering Mobs, I'd be mad at MMM myself. Youre stupid.
Sephuskal 1 year ago
@Sephuskal
I have every clue as to how it was back then, kiddo. You can't fool me with your lies... I studied the Mormon faith from both sides, and I know the truth. He was fined $1K for running an ILLEGAL bank. He BROKE THE LAW. He bankrupted many Mormons- & many left the church. HALF the Quorum of the 12 blamed him, includ Parley P. Pratt. In 1838, with a warrant out for his arrest, he ran away to Clay County, Missouri just ahead of an armed group out to capture and hold him for trial!
ScienceReasonBelief 1 year ago
@splitspeeds truths? lol? yeah sure.
splitspeeds 11 months ago
there was a mitochondria test that was done on the native americans and the jews and it showed that the native americans did not have the same pattern because the mitochondria is passed down by the mothers, so they did not have the same mothers. Also if you go to Asia you will find similar languages and tools that the native americans have suggesting that they crossed the Bering Strait as science has already proved.
gracebrowne 3 years ago
Do Mormons believe that there are "other Gods" and that a human can become a God?
tajy22111 3 years ago
(pt 1)I was a Rastafarian for 7 years.I'm VERY much aware of what a fundamentalist cult is like. Hiding behind words or righteousness and love. When the whole time they ONLY carry love for each other. They say they "love" everyone. But they really mean.."I pity your ignorance and lack of seeing the REAL God.so I love you..(you poor ignorant bastard who is going to burn in hell unless you accept MY views and ONLY my views). I've been exactly like you...a pleaser of man. U do this to please man.
tajy22111 3 years ago
Howdy! I just want to clarify that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is in no way affiliated with the FLDS church which was and is on the news.
For example, it's just like if you belong to the Catholic church, and a new church comes out called the Fundamentalist Catholic church. They are not the same church, and so it is with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints and the Fundamentalist LDS church.
theDood45 3 years ago
"The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is in no way affiliated with the FLDS church which was and is on the news."
Interesting...that is a big reason how the "false churches" became false in past time right? Because they kept expanding and changing from the ORIGINAL message and keeping the Body of Christ as one and not divided. Looks like the only "true" church is becoming divided and torn also. Now you have contradictions in prophecy..both with the name LDS. Sounds confusing.
tajy22111 3 years ago
I can't tell..are you really interested, or are you just trying to bash?
But, to answer your question...back in time after Christ's death, the people eventually killed all of the Apostles (Peter, James, John, etc) who had all of the priesthood authority on the earth.
b/c of this, the Lord's church was no longer on the earth. This is called the Apostasy. The Savior then brought back and restored His church in its fullness on the earth called The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.
theDood45 3 years ago
(2)"If you ONLY love those whom love you..what love do you have?" I'm sorry..but I see the Mormons as 95% really good people. Who are following 5% of the Anti Christ. Mormonism...like JW..like ALL sects is "bastardizing" Christianity. Christ was VERY clear about division. Why are you not following Gods Word? Why did you allow yourself to divide away from Christ? Guess what Church I belong to? NONE! But guess what I'm not gonna do..start a NEW church.just because all you guys are defiling Christ.
tajy22111 3 years ago
(part3) Because then...I become another one of YOU. Another hopless person who allowed the words and actions of MAN...to trick me into forgetting that Christs message was FULL. I have an 8 year old daughter whom I love more than you know. If her mother stopped loving her today...should I walk away from my daughter also?
Should I abandon her because her mom did? Isn't that what "denominations are doing?". Leaving Christ cause of some other mans doings??
tajy22111 3 years ago
If Jesus tells us that we "cant serve 2 masters at the same time"....where does Joesph Smith fall in? Seems like Mormons are not even "following 2 masters" really though...only "one master" Joseph Smith..and his "New religion"...that he thinks is "better than Christs word"...yet without Christ and the Bible..Joseph Smith wouldnt have a leg to stand on and would have been inspired to write his "own fairy tales". Tell me...where did Jesus word in the Bible lead us wrong? U change his word..why?
tajy22111 3 years ago
Hi there! I'm glad that you mentioned your part3 comments. I hope I can help to bring some light to the subject for you.
Do you believe that there were and are people all over the world? There were people on the American Continent, and in Israel and many other places that we do not know of. All people are God's children. Does it seem right that He would only talk to one group of His children (the Jews), and leave everyone else out? This is why there is additional revelation. He loves us.
theDood45 3 years ago
Well,first of all,I find it interesting that you answered NONE of my questions. I'm not sure why? If your a "Mormon Defender"..please defend and help me to understand your faith. 2nd..YES I do believe that people were and are all over the world. However I'm not here to debate archeology. (unless you want to). Besides,In my opinion..so WHAT if there were indians that are from 12 tribes? That in NO way changes Christs message of Salvation. Its just another human stumbling block to create division.
tajy22111 3 years ago
I did.
theDood45 3 years ago
I'm sorry..I'm not sure what your answering to when you say "I did". You did believe in other Gods? If so...why? Any why do you not now?
tajy22111 3 years ago
i am not mormon, but a few of my friends are. i just don't get (not only about Mormons) but about over all religion. why people can not just live their own lives and stop trying to tell me that all these different churches are wrong.
darthvb999 3 years ago
Because they love you and want to help you. They obviously care about you and want you to be happy. If you are happy where you are, then that is fine. :)
theDood45 3 years ago
I am grateful there are people willing to stand up and tell the truth about the LDS church.
TikkiNippets 3 years ago
Chris, You seem like a really nice guy. I appreciate your faith, but faith isn't always in something that is true. I am an ex-mormon (by my choice. Here are just a few things for you to ponder:
1. The BOM (which I was taught was 100% correct) has had many changes. You can verify that for yourself.
2. The temple 'ceremonies' have also been changed quite a few times...why were they ever changed if they were given by revelation and were true to start with?
to be continued....
gaspoweredredneck 4 years ago
3. How can you have any faith the the BOM was translated correctly when J. Smith got it so wrong on the Book of Abraham? The papyrus scrolls have nothing to do with Abraham.
4. If the LDS church has the truth, why does the church not want its members to question any of its doctrines or even read anything critical of it? Truth can stand any false criticisms.
5. Should interracial couples be put to death? B. Young said they should! Should a prophet be a racist? Is God a racist?
gaspoweredredneck 4 years ago
gaspoweredredneck, good questions. Questions that a lot of people have heard of and in turn ask themselves. I like what you said, "Truth can stand any false criticisms" this is so true. I wonder why the Church is one of the fastest growing churches in the world? Over the last 170 some odd years the Church has had these same questions asked over and over, yet the Church keeps growing. Maybe its because "Truth can stand any false criticisms". To your questions...
MormonDefenders 4 years ago
1. Its true that the BOM has been changed 3,000 to 4,000 times. So does this really affect the truth of the BOM? No! What about the Bible's 100,000+ changes. Do these changes really affect the truth of the Bible? No! Anyway, do you think that the 3k - 4k changes were all doctorine or were they punctuation? I'll let you do some more research on that one.
MormonDefenders 4 years ago
2. Interesting you say that, have you witnessed those changes? Were they doctorine changes? Who's to say that they couldn't be changed. Would you still be offering sacrifices if the Lord didn't fulfill the law of Moses and go through the Crucifixion & Resurrection? We believe in continuing revelation. Who are we to say that God can't change something?
MormonDefenders 4 years ago
3. The Book of Abraham is not part of the BOM.
4. Contrary to this statement, the Church actually supports study and research. Remember from your days as a "Mormon" the simple words of the primary song, Search, Ponder, & Pray! The Church doesn't just teach that to the primary kids and then teach the adults that they can't study the Gospel.
5. Sound like you have a bone to pick with BY. Hey a lot of people do. First and foremost, you got that from the Journal of Discourses.
MormonDefenders 4 years ago
Who's to say he was teaching doctorine? Our critics have it in their minds that Prophets are perfect, and they can't speak their own mind. Might I remind you, Prophets are people too ... I.E. they can make mistakes too. Keep in mind the mental thought of almost every white family at that time. Most of them thought that slavery was ok. This does not condone that comment, but rather, explains the mindset of BY. God's not racist, God is no respector of persons.
MormonDefenders 4 years ago
I don't think the LDS prophets are perfect. I just wonder how it is that the church used to teach that we were to live by the words of the prophets, but now, since racism is such a dirty word, The Discourses of B. Young (which used to be proudly printed and studied) can be discarded. Poor old Brigham! I know no one on this Earth is perfect, but don't you think God would have moved on ol' Brigham's heart and helped him to not be such a flaming racist? That is my point, Brigham didn't change!
gaspoweredredneck 4 years ago
Chris, I hope you live a happy life and accomplish the things you want to do. I left the church because I found out I had been suckered. I know a lot of great mormon people. The problem I have is with the church, not them. Did you know that it was a fairly common theory at J. Smith's time that the Indians were descendants of the lost tribes of Israel? There was a fictional book written shortly before the BOM that was based on that theory. The author lived about 30 miles from J. Smith's home....
gaspoweredredneck 4 years ago
But bom has nothing in common with that ethan smiths book, only the common ancestry, nothing more. that comon belief wich wasn't that common atall, doesn't disproof that weather they did exist or not. There are similiar stories that parallel jesus' birth but are earlier than jesus, so does that prove that jesus didn't exist?? Joseph wasn't racist but young was a product of his time, all the christians were racist, exept few and many mormons were part of these few.
Jarkko1983 3 years ago
OMG. OMG. DONT BE DUMB. Brigham Young was supposedly a PROPHET!!!! HOLY SHIT. IF HE COULD TALK TO GOD, GOD WOULD HAVE SET HIM STRAIGHT ABOUT BLACKS.
Im sorry for typing, but this just has to end, Mormonism has lived long enough and serving a couple of greedy men only interested in that 10% of your check.
JTownSmith 3 years ago
The guy on the video says he'll delete your comments if it has alot of profanity, so it might be good to clean up your messages.
But, to answer your question about tithing... Tithing is something that was instituted in the days of Moses that they "took all the tithes into the storehouse". Tithing was and is instituted of God in days past and today. It is not in pockets of men.
Everything in and on the earth is the Lord's and all He requires back is 10%. We pay it willingly and lovingly.
theDood45 3 years ago
we are never taught to live by the words of the prophets, smith himself degrees that all teaching must not be in contradiction with the 4 standard works, otherwise it's not a valid doctrine. Any opinnions of the prophets must be set down by the 12 and the presidency with common consent, before it's a binding doctrine, so these common consents are what we are to follow, everything else is just reading that can benefit us or increase scriptural understandings, nothing more.
Jarkko1983 3 years ago
Joseph Smith wasnt a prophet, Compare him to Moses, a WHOLE NATION saw his miracles and him parting the red sea. Only 5 people saw Joseph, and some of them were FAMILY MEMBERS.
JTownSmith 3 years ago
3. I know that. It is part of the 'Pearl of great Price' and usually was in the D&C book. It was considered scripture by the church (at least when I went). I guess that has changed too?
4. If you were to really look with an opened mind at just a small portion of the information debunking the J. Smith story, the BOM, etc., there is no way you would continue on as a mormon. The proof is out there, but I don't think you want to know it. That's your choice.
gaspoweredredneck 4 years ago
The Bible was translated from several languages. It was also translated at different times in history. The King James versions is not that easy to ready because English has changed a good bit since that translation was done. By the way, I make no claim that the Bible was translated correctly or that any of it is true. The LDS church used to claim that the BOM was the 'most correct' book on earth. Why so many mistakes if J. Smith had God working with him? Is God not good with English grammar?
gaspoweredredneck 4 years ago
The age, growth rate, and number of members has nothing to do with it being true. Islam has been around over 1000 years, has far more members than the LDS church, and is growing faster than the LDS church. Is Islam 'truer' than the LDS church? The number of people that believe something has nothing to do with whether it is true or not. If you stop and really think about it, doesn't the entire J. Smith story seem just a bit outlandish? Why was polygamy stopped if it was an 'eternal' principle?
gaspoweredredneck 4 years ago
1. In 2nd Nephi 30:6 where white was change to pure (not grammatical). I was taught that lamenites were cursed much like Cain with dark skin (2nd Nephi 5:21). Wasn't this a PC change so as not to appear racist? God seems to put people down by changing their color?
2. So the truth changes? Sacred ceremonies given to J. Smith aren't true anymore and have to be changed? I heard so many times the church was founded on revelation and its doctrines, temple ceremonies, etc were unchanging. Oh well.
gaspoweredredneck 4 years ago
The speed at which the church is growing has nothing to do with whether its doctrines are true. The number of people who believe in anything has nothing to do with its truthfulness. Islam is over 1000 years old, and a lot more members than the LDS church. Does that make Islam true?
gaspoweredredneck 4 years ago
Three honest questions:
First question: how do religious people decide that the bible religions are the right religions? why aren't the other religions the right ones? A lot of bhuddist miracles have been related. And Hindu. And Muslim. And... I don't get it (honestly) The bible is but a few texts, written at different times, in which people believe because their parents did. Now that the world is small and we know there are other things out, why do people still believe in this one?
VincentPhil 4 years ago
Second: Why believeing in anything at all? What supports this strange (to me) idea that some supernatural force rules the world. Even though no sure proof supports it, how can someone base his life on it?
Third: who could believe this story of ancient great civilization, since no significant remains have been found, but a book the oldest version we have of is from modern times?
VincentPhil 4 years ago
I have a bachelors degree. I have read many books, searched, pondered and prayed for truth and found the LDS church to be true.
deeshirley 4 years ago
Are you in any specific denomination, sect, creed? If so, you're in a cult. There is nothing wrong with the word cult, Google the definition. Brainwashed? Yea I guess if studying for the last 6 years, reading all kinds of religious books, LDS, NON-LDS, Bible, BOM, D&C, etc... equals brainwashed. I probably know more about your religion than you do, because I have studied Catholism, "JW", Muslim, Born Again, Lutheran, Methodist, Baptist, etc... Don't make those false claims, "get informed" LOL!
MormonDefenders 4 years ago
What would you say about the fact that J. Smith claimed that God, Jesus, an angel, or which ever you you believe appeared to him, told him it was God's order that there be polygamy? I've read the book of doctrine and covenants where it says that it's the order of God that a man be damned if he doesn't have more than one wife. How do you justify this?
shreddog2049 4 years ago
Please give the D&C reference... wait you can't because its not there. Very few mormons practiced polygamy and many of those who didnt practice polygamy were still active members. Polygamy was mainly the result of the many men murdered for their belief in Jesus Christ. Woman at that time didn't work and needed financial providers. Polygamy was stopped in the late 1800's because membership #'s rose, so polygamy wasn't necessary, and it was outlawed, and mormons believe in obeying the laws of USA.
deeshirley 4 years ago
Well, the problem is that I actually held my friends D&C book and read it with my own eyes, so it's not just my opinion that it's there. It's section 132.
Now here's the problem, and the main reason that mormonism is a cult. If they have Gods word, why do the keep changing it? The verses about it in D&C have been changed since I read them from the older D&C book of my friends. God is the same yesterday, today, and forever, so if it's his word and command, it would never change.
shreddog2049 4 years ago
Please read the complete secttion of 132. shreddog2049 has misunderstood the section. It talks about the "New and Everlasting Covenant" which includes marriage. If you break the "New and Everlasting Covenant" you are damned. The "New and Everlasting Covenant" in LDS doctrine entails the entire gospel plan, not one individual idea. Celestial marriage is one aspect of the New and Everlasting Covenant.
MormonDefenders 4 years ago
Until 1890 plural marriage was an acceptable plan of marriage, but not the "New and Everlasting Covenant." However, every gospel covenant is part of the New and Everlasting Covenant.
Within days after the church was organized, Joseph Smith received a revelation which speaks of a new and everlasting covenant (D&C 22:1). Speaking of the apostasy the Lord said, "[They] have broken mine everlasting covenant" (D&C 1:15).
MormonDefenders 4 years ago
"So I have sent mine everlasting covenant into the world to be a light to the world" (D&C 45:9). Even in the revelation on eternal marriage. Section 132, the first half deals with celestial marriage in the context of a man and his wife, and the rest of the revelation speaks of celestial marriage with plural wives. There is no reason to justify this. Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as also Moses had more than one wife and were not "damned" by God. Why? Because God commanded them to do so.
MormonDefenders 4 years ago
You just won't look at this rationally. In the first place, J. Smith was a fraud, so the religion itself is a fraud. Second, the Bible is the total and complete Word of God, and needs no new covenant. Specially one that goes against the Bible itself. Now I know all your arguments, so go ahead and tell me that it doesn't contradict the Bible.
shreddog2049 4 years ago
We are looking at this the most rational logical way. First off calling JS a fraud is easy, anybody can call someone a fraud. ppl even call Jesus a fraud. You know all my arguments? Ok, I want you to tell me what "arguments" contradicts the Bible.
MormonDefenders 4 years ago
Ok. That theres another testament of Jesus Christ, when the Bible clearly says let no man add too or take away from the words of this book. That covers all other arguments.
And I call JS a fraud because he wrote 7 different accounts of what happened when he said he got the BoM. First it was Jesus that appeared to him, then it was an angel...
Bottom line is, God's word(the Bible) is whole, so the polygamy alone is enough to show JS a fraud because God doesn't tell us to change His laws, period.
shreddog2049 4 years ago
Shreddog the bible is not in chronological order. The word bibile mean a collection of books. John is talking about the book of revelations independently not speaking for the bible as a whole. You can also look up deuteronomy 4:2 and see is says almost the exact same thing as Rev: 22:18-19
thanks
iamlds08 4 years ago
I'm not getting through to yall; J. Smith was a fraud so the mormon book isn't something thats worth even talking about because it's just some words that some pervert wrote to start his own religion so he could have a bunch of wives, some of which were younger than 16.
shreddog2049 4 years ago
shreddog2049, your comments (debates) are not new. Our critics comment's have been proven wrong for years. You will find that a lot of LDS members are well versed on the Bible and have studied many topics for years. I want to invite you to study the history of the Bible, you will find that your previous comment (addto/take away) is incorrect like what iamlds08 said. If it were true you would have to take away everything after Deuteronomy.
MormonDefenders 4 years ago
"it's just some words that some pervert wrote to start his own religion so he could have a bunch of wives" like I said before, saying this is easy to say about something you know little about. It sounds like you have heard a lot from a preacher who doesn't like the Mormons. I ask you to please do some studying on your own, just don't listen to your preacher.
MormonDefenders 4 years ago
You know, if people have been saying the same thing for years, it might be true.... I have no preacher telling me anything either. I went to high school with a mormon girl who I became close with and did allot of research on mormonism.
It's rediculus
shreddog2049 4 years ago
...to say that it's easy for me to say stuff about J.S. and that I know little about it. I do know about it, thats how I know not to accept mormonism as a part of God.
shreddog2049 4 years ago
How long did people say the earth was flat before they were proven wrong? Just because people say something and agree on it for along time doesn't make it true. You must study, investigate, read, ask the One who knows all, etc...to find the truth yourself.
MormonDefenders 4 years ago
You've got to be kidding...the earth being flat?? Come on, I can't tell you many more times how much research I've done and mormons I've known. You keep missing the bottom line, that it's easy to find out truth about J.S. and the things the church has taught that directly contradict the Bible or make no sense at all.
Have you ever done research yourself about the different accounts J.S. gave about the time he said he got the BoM?
shreddog2049 4 years ago
Mormon Defender,
thanks for posting. Wow an open honest debate about the LDS religion. The ANTImormon/EXmormon crowd hates stuff like that. Now if we can just get them to answer questions and think logically.
omiolo 4 years ago
Have you seen the data for the DNA in the DNA VS. The Book of Mormon video? Any names or numbers? Any thing to prove their clame other than there words, "no DNA hebrew DNA in the americas."? What happends when you go to the nationgeographic website on their DNA trails?
What do you find on DNA in America?
SpeckCipher 4 years ago
there was a dna test on jews with the sur name of Cohen, which means priest, no matter where they lived in the world, they were found to be geneticaly related.
digestezine 4 years ago
why did Bringham young own a whiskey distillery in Utah ??
digestezine 4 years ago
Go Brother Gunnels! You guys rock! See ya at church...love the Thomassen's
AngellicT 4 years ago
the LDS tells Samoans that they are really Hebrews and that their skin was changed from white to dark, PATHETIC
digestezine 4 years ago
I am not sure where you get your information. I have a Samoan uncle who loves the church and the gospel and all his Brothers and Sisters are LDS as well as my cousins. They love the happiness the gospel has brought to them.
AngellicT 4 years ago
yes but they are not hebrew and their skin color was not changed, the DNA does not lie
digestezine 4 years ago
Come on big guy, you need to watch our DNA videos. You are basing your facts thinking that Lamanite means Hebrew. This is not true. There are many that have made this assumption, but it has been refuted by LDS scholars for years. The Book of Mormon nor the LDS church have ever made an "official declaration" that all Native Americans are of Hebrew descent.
MormonDefenders 4 years ago
The word Lamanite stands for a religious belief, cultural stance, or political view; in The Book of Mormon. At first it did stand for lineage but soon after the term was broadened to a mean something much larger.
MormonDefenders 4 years ago
So does the DNA of Samoan's match that of today's Hebrews? No, but that my friend means nothing. Imagine a small band of 10 Hebrews coming to a continent with millions of inhabitants. Do you think that the small band of 10 would show up in a DNA trace thousands of years later. The answer is NO!
MormonDefenders 4 years ago
Lastly, we did not know the genetic makeup of any people who traveled with Lehi. If you know it that would be very interesting as it is not stated in the Book of Mormon. There are many gaps in your DNA analysis. If you would like to continue this conversation. Please watch our DNA vs. The Book of Mormon videos. Then please comment on those videos. I have written too much on this topic, in replies from critics on those videos. I don't want to have to repeat all of that here too.
MormonDefenders 4 years ago
The Cochabamba Bolivia Temple was dedicated by President Gordon B. Hinckley in four sessions on 30 April 2000. In his dedicatory prayer, President Hinckley said: "This nation is named for Simón Bolívar, the great liberator of much of South America, who died the year Thy restored Church was organized. May the incomparable principle of democracy be preserved forever in this republic.
digestezine 4 years ago
Well the dna of the Jews scattered around the world and seperated for thousands of years certainly does match, why not the samoans or the Indians in the Americas ?
digestezine 4 years ago
Nephi 1:8 "And behold, it is wisdom that this land should be kept as yet from the knowledge of other nations; for behold, many nations would overrun the land, that there would be no place for an inheritance."
The Land of inheritance could not be inhabited by millions already according to the Book Of Mormon.
ElderJoseph 4 years ago
You have misunderstood this scripture. Also, please note the word OTHER nations NOT ALL nations. Please read the passage in context. If you need I will explain it to you. Anyway, please keep DNA comments on our DNA videos.
MormonDefenders 4 years ago
If we disagree does not make me ANTI Mormon.
All you have is Blind faith, Please stop making excuses for it, so be it.
funnrun 4 years ago
We remember before Thee the sons and daughters of Father Lehi. Wilt Thou keep Thine ancient promises in their behalf. Lift from their shoulders the burdens of poverty and cause the shackles of darkness to fall from their eyes. May they rise to the glories of the past. May they recognize their Redeemer and be faithful and true Saints of the Most High." (Remarks at the dedication of the Cochabamba, Bolivia temple, reported in "News of the Church," Ensign, July, 2000, p. 74
digestezine 4 years ago
"I sense a great spirit of gratitude for this new temple," remarked President Hinckley. "The Saints have waited a very, very long time." He continued: "It has been a very interesting thing to see the descendants of Father Lehi in the congregations that have gathered in the temple. So very many of these people have the blood of Lehi in their veins, (Remarks at the dedication of the Guayaquil, Ecuador temple, reported in "News of the Church," Ensign, Oct. 1999, p. 74)
digestezine 4 years ago
The Book Of Mormon Introduction says that American Indians are the Principal desecendants of Lamanites.
ElderJoseph 4 years ago
what did Joseph smith, Bringham young teach ?
digestezine 4 years ago
see my vids...they show what they teach. Again this is a useless conversation on this vid.
MormonDefenders 4 years ago
President Hinckley next visited Lima, Peru, where he met with missionaries and held two conferences attended by a total of 28,000 Latter day Saints. President Hinckley recognized the Book of Mormon heritage of his listeners in Lima: As I look into your faces, I think of Father Lehi, whose sons and daughters you are. I think he must be shedding tears today, tears of love and gratitude. in News of the Church Ensign, Feb 1997 73
digestezine 4 years ago
digestezine---you must not be reading. Stop replying here and post on my DNA videos. Everything you have talked about has been covered in the chat messages or the videos. I don't want to have to repeat everything! Please do yourself a favor and read my comments before posting here again! I will reply to you on those pages. Thanks for helping us streamline our conversations. This makes it easy for everyone to follow conversations.
MormonDefenders 4 years ago
Mormondefender Which of the Native Americans are descended from Hebrews then ? Where are they .
ElderJoseph 4 years ago
see the comments youtube . com/ comment_servlet?all_comments&v=yd0ozhjM-fk&fromurl=/watch%3Fv%3Dyd0ozhjM-fk (take the spaces out of the url) 3/4 down
MormonDefenders 4 years ago
no that is what some ppl thought of, they liked how it sounded. Just cause some LDS say something doesnt mean it is true. The Church NEVER main a offical statement like that, nor does doctrine support that. Plus BYU even proved that they werent.
saxaphonedude 2 years ago
thanks for your great vids. Much needed.
LANGLEYLDS 4 years ago
"4. Do you believe that God loves all his children, no matter their race ...?" Yes, I do, which is why I could never believe that the profit of LDS, Inc ever could have had special access to God since the God I would believe in would never allow a church to be as racist as LDS, Inc was/is.
yorlik7 4 years ago
The LDS church was not and is not racist! What is your belief in saying so? Is it because blacks were not allowed the priesthood until 1978? You'd be wrong, Elijah Abel, a black man, was given the priesthood in 1833 (3 years after the church was restored) and then ordained a seventy a few years later.
MormonDefenders 4 years ago
The fact that one man (plus his progeny) was allowed to have the priesthood does not mean that there was not a racist doctrine until 1978 that blacks were not allowed to have the priesthood. By the way, Elijah Abel petitioned Brigham Young several times to be able to attend the temple to have his endowment, but he was denied. Guess blacks, or "darkies" (as Joseph F. Smith called them) didn't deserve to be sealed to their families.
yorlik7 4 years ago
The LDS church does more for people of all race and color in this world. We are the first there and the last to leave.Heavenly Father loves all of his children. Racisim was invented by man not God. Are you yourself not being racist in your comments? Hate is an ugly thing my friend.
AngellicT 4 years ago
Great to see some people here to defend and get the truth out there amongst all this filth. Really support what you guys are doing, keep it up.
regularperson18 4 years ago
Thank you!
MormonDefenders 4 years ago
Please rate our videos so more people can see them.
MormonDefenders 4 years ago
Thank you. I find your church fascinating and I am still learning. I understand how your concept of Jesus and God differs from the idea of the trinity now. As far as baptizing the dead, apart from the helpful scriptural explanations, does it have to do with a physical kingdom being set up in america at the second coming? Where in America will this take place? I can't seem to find it online. Thanks again.
aerotrooper 4 years ago
Really quick, you guys need to put up a LOT more tags to get noticed. I want your message to get out there, so, please make a few more tags to pick up a larger audience.
Hnau 4 years ago
Awesome job guys. I'm looking to do some Mormon Defending in video responses myself, really digging it.
Hnau 4 years ago
im diggin this
theres alot of filth and incorrections on here and i believe there can be some positive force on here to clean it up
good job starting it off
GorillaSaint 4 years ago
Is this like apologetics? It is interesting that you're doing this. I would say I believe the 7 things you have asked. My questions would be... Why is a mortal needed for baptising the dead into your church... couldn't it be done in the spirit realm? And when you pray to "heavenly father" are you praying to God the father or Jesus his son? I look forward to help with these questions. Thanks.
aerotrooper 4 years ago
Thank you for your questions. Yes, this is like apologetics. First I assume that you don't believe that you must be physically baptised, hence "couldn't it be done in the spirit realm". We believe its a physical ordinance, reference John 3:5. With out a body it can't be done. We believe Jesus was baptised and we should follow his example. Also this is not a new ordinance we made up, refer to 1 Corinthians 15:29 (common practice)
MormonDefenders 4 years ago
Since it was part of Christ's church, which was lost(apostasy), it too needed to be restored. We pray to God the Father in Jesus's name. If you need more info, let me know.
MormonDefenders 4 years ago
This it Mitch---I just wanted to add my two cents as well. Most Christian sects believe in a physical baptism to become Disciples of Christ and to take on his name. What just God would not give this opportunity to all of His children? If He is a just God, then he must provide a way for those who have never heard the name Jesus Christ to accept this physical ordnance (as baptism is essential for salvation).
MormonDefenders 4 years ago
I would like to point out a very important thing. Jesus Christ performed vicarious works for us---the ultimate example is the Atonement. This was a "physical" ordnance and could not be performed in the "spirit realm." He was also able to take on the sins of the world and become each person's personal savior.
MormonDefenders 4 years ago
Christ's Atonement is the ultimate example of a vicarious act, a sacrifice done on behalf of all of us. When Paul says baptism "for" or "on behalf of" the dead, he uses the same Greek construction that is used to describe Christ sacrifice "on our behalf." The Greek preposition is "huper," which is often used to convey the representation of one person by another (e.g., in ancient business documents - see Anderson, Understanding Paul, p. 405).
MormonDefenders 4 years ago