ndzoko- Also, there are plenty of miracles and manifestations of God's power on Earth. Many healings you could research, places you could visit where miracles have occurred...such as Medjugorje where MILLIONS have witnessed miracles. Please note the number of witness'. Scientific tests have proved it is no hoax.
@ndzoko You honestly would only believe the resurrection with physical proof or empirical data? The aspect of faith would be null and void in that case for all would believe. Most historians agree Jesus did exist on Earth and was crucified. To say no physical proof exists therefore it didn't happen is certainly a shallow way to look at things.
@ndzoko..He can't give you any proof because there is none. Salvation is just a state of mind. It is all a part of the religious mind control. Especially in catholicism.
@DeniqueCoelum Also Matthew 23:9 (Jesus speaking): "And do not call anyone on earth your father, for One is your Father, He who is in heaven." this dispells the pope and priests. you can't take one part of one verse and build an entire belief system on it, and then claim it's the truth
@ndzoko see, this is where you confuse the two: Christianity and Religion. Religion has splintered into thousands of different factions because Religion is Man-made. it's all about rules and regulations and traditions. Christianity is about a relationship and a lifestyle. if you had the two straight and did not confuse them, then you'd see clearly that it's the truth.
@widecelica Christianity is not one belief, but a thousand different beliefs. Christianity has a violent past. To separate christianity from a " religion " is a poor attempt to brush under the carpet all that is wrong in it`s teachings, all that has been wrong in the following( including misinterpretation) of those teachings.
@ndzoko no sir. do not take your hate of Religion and apply it to everything. there is a huge difference between Christianity and Religion, which i've already explained. that violence you speak of was sanctioned by the church... by the religious, usually the catholic church. look at the true, first Christians, the one's that followed Christ and saw him resurrect, what violence did they commit? none, because Christianity is a relationship of love, not hatred.
@Denique my response to this would be Matt 18:18 Jesus says "Truly i say to you, whatever you shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven" 19"...it shall be done for them by my father who is in heaven."
such as Christ being nailed to a CROSS and NOT a stake. 160,000 differant denominations should automatically tell anyone seeking god that somethings a miss within that branch, theres also a bakers dozen of Orthodox that cant get the messages clear either, yet one church still remains the same, and thats the oldest faith of Christianity being the catholics.
church in his own name, and botch the old testament and add words to the new? why was ok to follow the path of a loathsome gluttonous adulterous murderous king to establish a church for a whole nation to follow? why is ok to follow throw out and destroy tradition that The Church made in the beginning in concordance to the apostles themselves, why would anyone follow a movement that has not unified but constantly added and subtracted dogmas cult followings and non biblical traditions and facts
Let me make this clear to every protestant in existence, The One Holy Catholic and ALL of its traditions are the very same church which bond the scriptures to together, Protestants why was it alright for Martin Luther( a roman catholic monk) to go against the VOWS which he swore unto God for chastity obedience and servitude just to rebel against the doctrine of original Christianity its laity and clergy as well as highest authority and earthly and godly just to knock up a nun and make a
@MaestroInfernus Luthers` decision seems to have it`s origin in the decay of christianity in the Middle-Ages. Christianity had lost it`s credibility to honest believer, or do you agree with the actions of christianity in the past ?
I chuckle when protestants use the term "un-biblicle"
The term Trinity isn't mentioned in the Bible yet they baptize children "in the name of the father the son and the holy spirit".... That is not in the Bible... How dare they!...............
@mezatopia Indeed, the Bible is profitable for teaching, but it is not sufficient. Paul reminds us that we should also accept the teaching of the apostles as the word of God. Let us not forget that we must consider the Bible as a whole. God bless.
@DeniqueCoelum Sorry, but there's simply no historical support. It's more than a matter of personal conviction. It's a matter of objective history. The "first principles" of Christianity can be found all throughout the writings of the early Christians. There's a reason that so many people convert to Catholicism after studying the early writings - it's because they (and the early Church) are distinctively Catholic.
Thank you for the good wishes, and I pray that God blesses and guides you as well
@DeniqueCoelum You claim that "God has preserved the light of the truth in small, scattered groups of persecuted believers". This is a historical claim. Where's your historical support?
You see, multiple groups have claimed this over the years, but they invariably fail to have historical support. JM Carroll tried to claim this of the Baptists, for instance.
Of course God wouldn't allow the truth to be destroyed. He founded the Church on Peter and has maintained it throughout the ages in the CC
@DeniqueCoelum Still at the end of the day you're relying on nothing more than a man's interpretation. There's clearly no promise for each man's interpretation of the Bible to be without error (even if he thinks the Holy Spirit is guiding him), because there are plenty of good Christians who interpret the Bible in contradictory ways. There must be another system that God intends, for we are told that the Church is the "pillar and bulwark of truth" (1 Timothy 3:15) - man's interpretation is not.
@DeniqueCoelum I have two questions for you based on the opinions you've expressed.
You claim that we don't need anyone to tell us what to believe. How does that fit with Matthew 18:15-18 where Jesus tells us to "go to the church" if we have a disagreement between two believers. Doesn't this contradict your opinion?
The example of the Ethiopian eunuch in Acts 8 shows that we can't always understand by ourselves what we read in the Bible. How does that fit with not needing anything else?
@DeniqueCoelum I agree that truth doesn't and cannot change.
The Church does not forbid its priests to marry, nor does it forbid its faithful to eat meat. The priests of the Church (in the western parts) take a vow of celibacy to follow the example of Christ and the advice of St. Paul. Also, the Church encourages the faithful to abstain from meat on Fridays in Lent to remember the sacrifice of our Lord on that Good Friday. Fasting from meat is certainly biblical. Why do you object to these?
@DeniqueCoelum Saying that the practices of the Church can't change is silly. That's like saying that we should have to speak in the same language Jesus spoke, wear the same clothes, worship in the same order, etc. That would make you much more Catholics than you would care to be, because we can trace the order of the mass back to at least the 200's. The quote from Timothy (if it's the one I'm thinking) is written to early Gnostics, who forbid marriage and did not eat any meat at all. Context...
@DeniqueCoelum I cannot but smile, when I read the assertions of people about god and religion. I have more confidence in people, who have the humility to admit: I don`` t know. I saw an interview lately on TV of an Anglican Bishop. Somebody in the audience asked ; Monsignor, do you believe in an afterlife, and if so what``s the evidence. Reply : I don`t know if there is an afterlife. Nobody ever returned from the dead. But I believe in God#``s love. He will take care of this problem.
@ndzoko well sir (if you are a sir, not sure by your name) that anglican bishop is incorrect because there have been people that came back from the dead. Jesus Christ being one and if you don't believe in the resurection of Jesus Christ, then you're not really a christian simply put. it is what it is.
@widecelica There is not a single piece of evidence that the resurrection happened. If you have one, I am listening. There are many reasons why the resurrection is not true. One major one, it has no real purpose. Tell me, did the following happen ?>>
"and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, and came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many." Thank you.
@ndzoko since i wasn't there i can't really tell you what did or did not happen but i do accept them as historical records which i must do because i wasn't there. just like you accept historical records of past times and civilizations because you weren't there to witness yourself.
@widecelica just like you accept historical records of past times and civilizations because you weren't there to witness yourself. That`s very simplistic point of view, because you intentionally omit the EVIDENCE factor. I accept what I judge to have enough evidence to be believable, The bible is no exception. Besides, I don`t HAVE to believe any historical records. But one MUST believe the bible, or else ....
@ndzoko no sir, again you're wrong, which is not surprising. there is evidence, you just choose not to accept the evidence that comes forth... big difference. you don't have to believe the bible if you don't want to, that's what free will is all about. it is simplistic because it's a very simple idea that you want to make so much more complex. but of course i assume that you are the ultimate judge of historical reliance and you don't think the bible has enough, so it must not be true
@ndzoko i love how you change the subject to attempt to make your point. in order to believe in salvation, you need to believe in sin and you can not believe in sin without believing in the goodness of God. if you refuse to believe, then there will be no salvation, so you don't even have to worry about it.
@DeniqueCoelum No one claims to be the sole ambassador or priest for Christ, so I'm not sure where you get this idea from. Indeed, we are all ambassadors for Christ, and we are all part of "a royal priesthood, a holy nation". This is possible because Christ Jesus came and gave us the greatest sacrifice of all - himself.
As a side note, I'm not sure how your comment related to what I was talking about.
Also, if you're going to bash the CC, make sure you know what it teaches first
Idiot. The tradition Paul speaks of is the Gospel itself. There weren't any gospels yet extant at the time he wrote the epistles, to which he could refer, so don't you think he might have been referring to the Gospel of Christ, and him crucified (1 Cor 2:2), the message he verbally preached to the Gentiles?
Roman Catholicism = pagan superstition = the whore of Babylon
@cheagan Lay off the ad hominems, please. They have no part in an honest discussion. For what reason do you believe that Paul thinks all tradition will be written down as Sacred Scripture?
@cburton103 Because otherwise, any guy in a funny hat could ostensibly come along and introduce whatever "doctrines" he pleases into the church... oh, wait - that's exactly what the RCC does! And don't worry, you're not alone in that. There are scores of other denominations who are guilty of that sin. The Reformers' goal was a return to the APOSTOLIC faith, based upon Apostolic documentation.
@cheagan Once again, the ad hominems have no place in an intelligent conversation. The Pope does not and cannot introduce whatever doctrine he pleases. Catholic doctrine has always been the same as the deposit of faith given to the apostles. Throughout the years, the Church has clarified her teaching on various points. This should be expected, because the Church exists in an ever changing world with changing needs.
Sorry, but no denomination comes as close to the apostolic faith as Catholicism.
@cheagan As a side note, you didn't even come close to answering my question (At least seriously, anyways. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that your "funny hat" argument isn't the best you've got.) Feel free to try again.
@cburton103 It would take too long to enumerate the myriad ways in which the RCC has abrogated and nullified the Gospel of Jesus Christ, introducing the "veneration" of "saints" and Mary and requiring so-called "sacraments" which are nowhere to be found in the word of God. But therein is the argument: In Gal. 1:8-9, Paul says that "if any preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed." You know - that old Greek word "anathema" that the RCC loves so much!
@cheagan The problem is that Christians of your stripe attempt to limit the Word of God to the Bible, but this is not so. Jesus himself is the Word of God (John 1). At the end of John's Gospel, we are told the world would not even be able to contain the books written of the things Jesus did. Paul tells us multiple times to follow the traditions passed down to us from the apostles (1 Thess 2:13, 2 Thess 2:15, 2 Tim 2:2). The beliefs and practices you disagree with are part of the ancient faith.
@cburton103 If the traditions of the RCC were, in fact, the "traditions" mentioned by Paul, then they wouldn't CONTRADICT the word of God as recorded in the Bible. Why is that so difficult to grasp?
@cheagan Ok, then tell me what Tradition of the Church contradicts the word of God as recorded by the Bible.
Here, Tradition means only Apostolic Tradition - those traditions passed down from the Apostles throughout the ages. Practices, or disciplines, of the Church can and do change (such as whether priests can marry, etc), so these are irrelevant to this discussion. Ideas which are also irrelevant are those which corrupted members within the Church may have taught, but not the Church itself.
@cburton103 So, "coming close" to the Apostolic faith isn't even allowable, let alone admirable; there are very clear instructions as to the manner in which God is to be worshiped and His people are to be governed. The Gospel is simple enough for a child to understand, but that doesn't make for much profit, now does it? See Col 2:16-17 for an answer to just about every papist injunction ever foisted upon unsuspecting souls.
@cheagan You've completely removed those verses from their context. Here, Paul is telling the Jews that they are no longer held to the parts of the Old Covenant Law that concern food, drink, or honoring feast days. Please remember how important the actual context is.
I think that the closer someone comes to the apostolic faith, the closer they are to the Church Christ founded on Peter; the Catholic Church. So by all means, please come closer to the apostolic faith.
@cburton103 Please, do tell how you come about the knowledge that Paul is writing to Jews... in Colosse, which was in present-day Turkey. He is writing to CHRISTIANS, and as a Christian I read this epistle. On the contrary: Paul writes to a church who needs to be told to "continue in the faith grounded and settled, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel, WHICH YE HAVE HEARD". There's your "traditions".
@cburton103 Paul takes his time "telling the Jews" about their freedom in Christ - only he does it in the epistle to the GALATIANS, not the Colossians. In fact, he calls the Colossians "dead in the uncircumcision of [their] flesh" (2:13)... I wonder if the Jews would have mistaken that for something directed at them? Not likely. Face it - as a RC, you have been taught NOTHING with regard to what God says in His perfect word. What you have, instead (vicarius in the Latin), is TRADITIONS OF MEN.
@cheagan Sorry, I wasn't clear. I meant that Paul was telling the believers who were Jewish by heritage that they no longer had to follow the Old Covenant Law.
How can you say that I have been taught nothing with regard to God's Word when I've been discussing God's Word with you for a while now? Seems like you're too blinded by hate to see reality.
Back to the original question: What Tradition of the Church contradicts the word of God as recorded by the Bible? Refer below for the parameters.
@cburton103 And again, you are simply wrong. How could Jews "by heritage" have been "uncircumcised"? That WAS their heritage - namely, the circumcision.
@cheagan Sorry, once again. I didn't read it carefully enough the first time. It does not appear that the believers in Colosse were necessarily Jewish by heritage. Still, it remains the most obvious and likely interpretation that Paul is telling the believers here in Colosse that they shouldn't worry about those [Jewish people] who are telling them to obey the Old Law concerning food, drink and feast days. To extrapolate this to Catholicism is still certainly out of context. Answer my original q
@cburton103 Perfect. Where there is no connection to RC dogma, a RC simply creates one. You can find plenty of writers on the internet who can elucidate the unBiblical nature of (mostly all of) the Romanist religion, if you're truly interested in truth. I'm not going to waste my time arguing with someone who cannot see his own hand in front of his face. Pearls and swine.
@cheagan I've always found it simply unbelievable how people can be so incredibly rude to people that they're trying to evangelize, especially since Jesus never did such things.
You still never answered my question. I can only assume it's out of an inability to do so. Please don't let your hate blind you. God bless.
@cburton103 I don't hate you; I don't even know you. What I hate... loathe... abhor... what fills me with the urge to defecate is those who would replace the knowledge of God with their own agenda to subject people to spiritual slavery. My family is yet in the grips of the pagan Roman Catholic religion, and they think they're saved! I will spend every ounce of my energy in waging war on what has been rightly called the devil's magnum opus - the Roman Catholic church. May God have mercy on you.
@cburton103 Oh - and by the way, Jesus called the Pharisees "a brood of vipers", which means that He was calling their mother a snake, or a SERPENT... ie, the devil. And if you persist in your Catholicism, then that is exactly what you prove yourself to be - a son of the devil.
@cburton103 So don't you tell me about Jesus; you have your "Jesus", your "Vicar of Christ", and he sits on a throne in Rome. My Jesus reigns at the right hand of His Father in heaven. And by virtue of His FINISHED work of redemption, I reign with Him, in Him.
@cheagan Look, if you want to talk about Catholicism, that's perfectly fine. But the problem with what you're doing and what the vast majority of other anti-Catholics do is that they don't actually talk about Catholicism - they talk about their misunderstandings of Catholicism. We do not believe the Pope is Jesus, nor do we worship him. He is a man, like you and I. Jesus himself gave the Pope whatever power he does have. What do you think Matthew 16:18-19 means?
@cburton103 It means that Jesus was to lay the foundation of the church upon the proclamation that HE is the Christ, the Son of the Living God... as if it could be laid upon another! 1 Cor 3:11 says it best. Your insistence upon "Peter" as the foundation of the Church is the claimant which "the church" relies on to keep you in subjection! Do you not think that the enemy would hide in plain sight? The "pope" has NO power!
Ask me what "anti-" means to a 1st C. Greek, as in 1 Jn 2:18... go ahead.
@cheagan My insistence upon Peter as the Rock upon which Christ built the Church is because this is the interpretation that is in agreement with what the text actually says, and is the interpretation which believers have held since the earliest days of the Church. When is the first example when you can show that someone believed that Peter's confession of faith APART FROM Peter himself was the rock upon which the Church was built? You talk about going back to the apostolic roots, now prove it.
@cburton103 You don't believe the pope is Jesus? Well, the OFFICIAL Roman Catholic title of EVERY priest, bishop, and pope in the RCC is "Vicar of Christ", as in the Latin "vicarius", meaning "in place of" or "instead of". Now go read 1 Jn 2:18, and find out what "anti-" meant to a 1st C. Greek-speaker. It DOESN'T mean "against". It means "INSTEAD OF". You are a slave to ANTICHRIST!
@cheagan You don't get to tell Catholics what they believe. I'll tell you what we believe. Vicar of Christ is a term that means that signifies the Pope's unique position as an ambassador of Christ to the world. A good analogy is to think of a president (Jesus) with an ambassador (the Pope) to another country. This does not mean that we believe the ambassador is the president, it simply means that the ambassador is standing in for the president when he is not physically there.
@cheagan When is the first example when you can show that someone believed that Peter's confession of faith APART FROM Peter himself was the rock upon which the Church was built? You talk about going back to the apostolic roots, now prove it.
@cburton103 I patently refuse to pursue this line until you admit that the very premise of your argument, namely, that the Col. passage is aimed at Jews, is flawed. But I expect that you won't, because part in parcel of the RCC's false teaching (along with the Baptists, Methodists, Evangelicals, Pentecostals, and non-denoms, to name a few) is a wholesale misunderstanding of who Israel is, and what the church is and has always been.
The Roman Catholic Church teaches unbiblical doctorines and celebrates Pagan holidays like Christmas and Easter Also pray to Saints and Mary which is completely unbiblical.
Nice try. Traditions. 1 Tim 4:1-5 expressly talks of Romanism's traditions and describes them as doctrines of devils; 1 Timothy 2:5-6 proves the Popes and Priests have no power or authority; Math 23:9 Jesus said "call no man Father for one is your Father, which is in heaven"; Ephesians 2:7-9 shows Romanism to be False. Salvation is the the GIFT of God, you will never earn it. Rev 17 Calls your "Mother Church", "Mystery Babylon Mother of Harlots." Jesus calls for you! come out of her. Rev 18:4.
@DeniqueCoelum From whatever angle one looks at christianity, it simply makes no sense. Even scriptures say so. I believe one pope died between the legs of his mistress.
@widecelica I know u never said the words "you must be literate to be saved" but u implied it by saying you dont need to belong to a church. Please understand some basic logic here. If you were illiterate, where would you go to find the truth of Christ? How could you trust that person is being honest w/ u about the truth of Christ? How do you know what you need to do to follow the Law of Christ? "What men have said" guess what those men lived in the footsteps of the Apostles & know more than u.
I was right, you arent as smart as you think you are. You just twisted that verse to suit what you wanted it to say. Sure the gate is wide to destruction bc so many lack faith in Christ. This is not saying anything at all referring to the deposit of faith. In other words, you are interpreting that as anyone who believes in the majority of this or that interpretation is damned just bc they belong to the majority of believers. Sure you may not have said you were the infallible interpretor...cont
@widecelica Youre lost....I already new that but lucky for you I can educate you on Christian history & the church. Telling me you would point an illiterate person to the bible is like telling the bicycle rider how to get to the fueling station.
I want to know what scriptures say is the truth!
John 10:16 - And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd.
@catchzz believers outside the catholic church? yes. believers ARE the church but you're so twisted up in this Catholic church thing that you don't see that! you refuse to see the truth! and i agree with the sheep comment. Psalm 23:1 " The Lord is my shepherd..." the Bible is the Lords word therefore if you are a sheep following the shepherd's voice, you are following the Lords voice, the voice of truth. the infallible word of God - the Bible
@widecelica Believers outside the universal church that is 1, holy, catholic, & apostolic. This sound like you? Bible is the written form of Gods Word but I hope you dont confine His Word to paper only. Gods Word is alive of which exists in His universal church built on the rock of Peter to whom Christ the head shepherd passed His authority down to & all the way to today in Apostolic Succession. Is your church built on that rock? Do you know the visible sign in scripture of passing on authority?
@catchzz no, that's not the "church" i believe in because again, y ou're putting your sole trust on one man that has no Godly attributes. that passage was reffering to what his name meant. peter's other name, cephas, means Rock. he was in no way saying "hey buddy, you are my new rock, here's my power and uh, keep the party going! see ya!" you're got it all twisted. there is only one authority, and that's is the authority of Christ
@widecelica I gotta run for now, but just so you know you are 100% incorrect on Peter & the Rock and I will show you why later. I will blow you out of the water on that one.
@widecelica Do you know any Hebrew/Greek? Probably not bc I bet you havent studied scriptures in their native languages. Are you aware of what can potentially be lost in translations? Another reason why Christ est a true & visible church to teach the truth from Sacred Scripture & Sacred Tradition (& no Sacred Tradition has a clear distinction from traditions of men).
Since you think you know so much about scriptures, why havent you made sure nothing was lost in translation to the vernacular?
@catchzz ohh, tapping into those credentials. so i assume you are fluent in both the spoken and written hebrew/greek as well as aramaic. ... very impressive. where did you get your schooling from?
@widecelica Its called common sense and a little reading. Go check out the library, there are whole books written on this topic that washes your concept right down the drain.
You say you read the bible, but do you read other intellectual works?
Check out The Matthew 16 Controversy: Peter and the Rock by William Webster sometime. It helps to read about history, other languages/translations.
@catchzz so you are telling me to go out and read a book written by a man who is claiming to have details or to halp you further understand a book where teh topic may or may not be a doctrine? so you pretty much want me to do what catholics do. gotcha
@widecelica Did I say that? No & this was a very immature response. I told u to study scriptures & history. When the truth of that points to the Catholic church then u have a duty to answer to God.
Ive seen this mentality 100s of times but theres hope for u yet. I know many ppl who refused to hear out the Catholic church bc they wanted so badly to assume everything in it was wrong. Then they decided to hear it out & could no longer deny the truth of it. The Holy Spirit works in wonderful ways.
@widecelica What are English words we see in scripture? "You are Peter, & on this rock I will build my Church." So whats this rock Jesus referred to in Aramaic? Since the gospel was trans. to Greek we have petros/petra both meaning rock. In Aramaic we have Kepha, same as petra. So what Jesus said was "You are Kepha, & on this kepha I will build my Church." Petra is feminine so Jesus didnt apply it to Peter. Christ used a demonstrative pronoun this bc Heused a metphor that applies to Peter.
@catchzz do you realize what you just said? you just said that kepha is the same as petra, and then said that petra is feminine soJesus didn't apply it to peter. and then you confirmed your thought that the scripture was saying you are kepha (petra which is feminine) and on this kepha( petra feminine) i will build my church. your knowledge must be in line withi the catholic church cause it's all jacked up
@widecelica Thats bc youre ignorant of the original language of which I just explained to you. In Aramaic, kepha has the same ending whether it refers to a rock or is used as a man’s name. In Greek, the word for rock, petra, is feminine in gender. Petra became Petros. Christ was telling Peter that he Peter is THIS ROCK & upon THIS ROCK I will build my church. Taking the next verse where the keys to the kingdom are handed over hence authority. Your interpretation makes no sense.
@widecelica Apparently you dont understand my written words. This sounds a lot like all of those bible believing Christians who dont need to belong to a church bc they take the written words and distort them however suits them.
You must take scripture in its entirety. Simon was obviously renamed Peter for a reason. Look at the writings left behind by those who personally knew him & other Apostles who denied Peters Primacy.
annie46664 I appreciate the fact that you remain kind. But the Church is not man-made. It was founded by Christ as it explains in Matthew, where Jesus instituted his church and built it upon Peter when he gave him the Keys of the kingdom. God Bless
@MsCynthia56~ Thank you for your kindness too. That which you believe is, I'm sorry, untrue, but don't worry yourself, & certainly don't allow 'widecelica' to upset nor worry you in the SLIGHTEST, as she too has it all wrong.
RELAX! The real TRUTH is very soon to be delivered to ALL OF US, & if you wish for that to happen sooner, rather than later, please trust me, & telepathically invite TRUE friends & family of Jesus', those we refer to as ETs, to join us soonest! They will reveal ALL TRUTH!
widecelica Christ DID give teaching Authority to the Church that he founded when he gave the Keys o/t Kingdom to Peter (1rst Pope) just like it states in Matthew. Your remark is so silly it doesn't really deserve an answer when you accuse me of putting the Church above GOD. The Church COMES from GOD, it is his will
@MsCynthia56 the Church is the body of Christ. that's where your falsehood is broken down. the Catholic church is an organization. the catholic church gets that mixed up. also, where is the verser or verses taht talks about Christ giving the keys of the kingdom to peter? your defense is silly and full of holes madam
@MsCynthia56~ I don't wish to create an even larger hornets nest here, but I am of the strong belief (through finest & divine sources too) that neither God nor Jesus, ever condoned the concept of any church or any specific man-made 'place' of worship, & have only ever been greatly disappointed by all those places of worship built throughout the planet ever since the very 1st was built. Again, further to my comment below to 'widecelica', I stand to be corrected or hopefully, thought of kindly. :)
If you discovered that Obama was in fact a 'direct-line' descendant of Jesus Christ & (Black Ethiopian Goddess) Mary Magdalene, would it change your opinion of this highly spiritual being living 'hell' at the moment with his hands completely & utterly tied by the Illuminati?
Read here: whatdoesitmean. com/index1505. htm (no gaps!)
Live LOVE & LIGHT,
A long time fan of Obama's, thanks to Matthew Ward's divine guidance. Matthew has NEVER mentioned the possibility of the above though. :)
@widecelica ~ Oh well, it won't be long before we ALL learn ALL truths, & all I ask of you when that time comes, is that you think of me kindly. :) One thing that I do know for certain already, is that the Bible is loaded with untruths, having been hugely MANipulated by the very same 'lineage' of those creatures STILL controlling us after ALL these years (incl. of course the Vatican) ~ but their days are fast numbered & thanks God, they also know it!
@widecelica ~ I am most definitely a believer & 'lover' of God & Jesus, as well as Creator & ALL of their awesome creations, although I do have great difficulty loving those who have mislead, misguided & manipulated ALL of us for eons. I left the Catholic church 40yrs ago & had I not been born & raised into such, probably never would have joined. As for the untruths in the Bible, Oh gosh! I certainly don't know of ALL, but do know of too many to mention, which is bad enough for me personally.
@annie46664 i agree with the catholic church comment. i think they twist scripture and pick and chose what they want to build off of to make their own paganistic rules and beliefs. in reference to the "untruths" if there's a lot there shouldn't be a problem with you mentioning just a few.
@widecelica~ Sure. Jesus never died on any cross. He was severely punished of course, but banished & fled to India with His WIFE, Mary Magdalene, where they lived very happily & raised a family. Many years later, Mary left with their children for France, yet was 'telepathically' always in constant contact with the love of her life, Jesus. Jesus lived until a very ripe old age before dying a natural death in India. Jesus was never born of a 'virgin' as such ~ He was conceived like ALL of us were.
@widecelica ~ I just KNEW instinctively dear one, having read a couple of your responses here, that you would most definitely return with that or similar to that which you have done.
Dear sister, I am NOT here to argue with ANYONE, anytime, & especially on that, which NOBODY, yes! not you nor I nor any other, can offer any of us honest FACTS on. All I attempt to do, is offer thought to the possibility, LIKELIHOOD of a very, very different picture to ANYTHING documented in ANY religious book!
@annie46664 first of all, I'm a brother, not a sister. second of all, you claim to be a believer yet to take all meaning behind his sacrifice away and turn it into just some fairy tale. you should be ashamed of yourself. i am not here to argue either, only to defend what is being attacked and you attack all that stands behind the meaning and TRUTH of Christianity.
@widecelica ~ OH BROTHER! Upset your weary, troubled heart NOT over such which neither one of us, nor anyone else, can determine the HONEST FACTS behind right now. What I do know for sure, is that Jesus & God & a whole 'bunch' of others in the know, are surely having a great chuckle at the absurdity of this liaison of ours. HA HA HA I wish to join THEM ~ pardon me for doing so & if you may or most probably will, consider such a SIN! As long as THEY don't, I'm more than HAPPY! :)
@widecelica ~ Oh gosh! Forgive me ~ there's obviously WAY more misunderstanding here, as I had NO intention whatsoever of dragging anyone's name through MUD, & the ONE I know without a shadow of any doubt, knows this deepest, is GOD ~ & hopefully, His son & our brother Jesus, also knows as much!
Hey! I truly believe that we've spent sufficient time in one another's company ~ at least it feels like that to me ~ so let's offer this space to others. Who knows, they could teach you A LOT!
@widecelica~Further more ~ It sickens me, being like you too, a mere mortal (human being) raised on FALSE TEACHINGS through & through, how those going around, claiming to be so righteous or whatever, are invariably the VERY FIRST to be impolite & even accusing in their manner ~ especially with such pathetic ones like "liar". Dear one, get one thing straight at least, PLEASE, God is totally & absolutely NON-JUDGEMENTAL & ONLY EVER ALL FORGIVING!
@annie46664 furthermore, it sickens me that you attempt to pass a made up story from i don't know where off as fact. please, tell me where you got your facts? France wasn't even a country at that time so i know your "possibility" is completely out of whack. i agree that God is forgiving. but not judgmental? are you reading the same book? He IS the Judge! he will judge us all. and you say i call you a liar, but i have not, thus making you a liar.
@widecelica ~DARLING! You cannot even recall your very own accusations of but a mere few hours ago, so please let us leave this one to rest, & agree to disagree amicably at least. I love you nonetheless~esp. having noted your determination & tenacity towards reaching the truth. If I can possible offer any advice~continue to do so, but, realize that your results & accomplishments will be far greater devoid of any insults.
"lol, wow, so i assume you were lying when you said you were a believer"
In this video, the very definition of the "Sola Scriptura" doctrine is wrong. Roman Catholic Church does not believe that God spoken Word is found in Scripture alone but in their tradition, not the tradition (teachings) which Paul was writing about in 2The. 2:15 but the tradition based on the idea that the Magisterium headed by the Pope is the final & infallible authority in all things! So, instead of the doctrine of Sola Scriptura, we have the doctrine of Sola Ecclesia.
@HumanVersion2 the only rape thats going on are the devils agents masking themselves as holy men, and the majority of them came from non catholic backrounds. On top of that Have you checked the mormons? Paligamists, incestious and pedophilic now thats shocking.
@MaestroInfernus BTW why do you use the word prostitute?? Mary was FAITHFUL to her husband & that is why THEY together had MANY children. Do you honestly believe that Joseph's WIFE was a cold, hard woman? No, she LOVED her husband.
@JesusHoldMyHand1 It is you who dare slander the name of the Holy mother mary rejecting her greatness. You treat her as a prostitute. with the way you speak about her and you dare smack the face of the lords mother. you've gt gaul sir.
@JesusHoldMyHand1 It is you who go by botched bible and spit on tradition you protestant bastard you will Burn in Hell. You have no regard for those above you, no regard for tradition, nno regard for history, orthodox doctrine scripture, rituals, and The truth. You might as well kill yourself to bring you to hell all the faster and purge the world of your blaphemous pestilance.
@JesusHoldMyHand1 The Old testiment refers only to God and the Messiah to come, God and the Messiagh is NEVER EVER to e mixed, ever, that is blasphemy. The messiah is the sacrifice God made to suffering souls he loved so much. He is nothing compared to God he is just the son, he is just the example of wha wordshipers should be, he is Holiest amongst man, but he is still a man. worship God. Adore the savior and the mothr who bore him, show rspect for his saints who lived for God
@MaestroInfernus Jesus Christ was also seen in the Old Testament: Exodus 24:9-12; 6:2-5; 33:11; Genesis 18; 32:30; Numbers 12:6-8; Daniel 3:16; plus many, many passages in Exodus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, Joshua, etc. I'm not lying to you. The main problem when you are in a cult, you don't study the Bible. You "listen" to what other people say, but you don't check it out for yourself. Just like purgatory.....FALSE Death then JUDGMENT No praying for the dead; their destination is SEALED
@JesusHoldMyHand1 Wrong!!! i listened to know one you evil fuck. I found God by studying!!!! and His name is not Jesus it is Yahshua, son of Yahweh!!!! you are the cult you are the satan!!! Satan means etrayer in Hebrew just so you know, Purgatory is supported throughout the old testiment and new, tat is why the hebrews say the prayer of Kahdish and All souls are judged On JUDGMENT DAYCheck Revelations. The sould who remain in death do not rest they lament for sins made in life for those taken
@MaestroInfernus "I am the Alpha & Omega, who was, who is and who is come come, the Almighty." Revelation 1:8 Jesus Christ speaking. "I am the First & the Last..." Isaiah 44:6; 48:12; Revelation 1:17; 22:13 Jesus Christ is the Word, the Word is God, the Word CREATED everything, the WORD became Flesh. John 1:1-5 & v14; Jesus is the "image of the invisible God who CREATED everything" Colossians 1:15-20; Jesus Christ is Lord - Genesis 12:7; 18; 32:30; Exodus 6:2-5; 24:9-12; 33:11; Numbers 12:6-8
@JesusHoldMyHand1 And? Btw your King James txt is Historically invalid, so what ever you present is automatically blasphemy. And None of that disproves the infallibility of the One Church, which is the Holy Catholic Church. btw its Yahshua not Jesus, and he is a servant to man we only worship God, he is devinly set apart because he was begotten by the Sinnless mother Mary. Ibso Facto, you are a fool.
@JesusHoldMyHand1 God is the father, who shares his thrown with NO ONE!!!!! Yahshua is prophesied in the Old Testiment, It said he would be named Emanuel. Your a disgrace to God, heretic perish in your ignorance.
@MaestroInfernus "I am the Alpha and Omega, says the LORD GOD, who is, who was, and who is to come, the ALMIGHTY." Revelation 1:8 (Jesus speaking) You not only argue with GOD'S WORD, but now you're arguing WITH God Almighty. Go figure.
@MaestroInfernus Dude I shouldn't have to tell you this, because you sound Catholic, but Jesus is God the second person in the trinity. Read your Catechism. And btw I have a rule if you can't get your point across without being volgar and insulting Im going to have to block you
@ithcus777 Yahshua is not God in any Catechism teaching. He is The servant king, The son of God, and yes is a part of the trinity. He is respresentitive for God, that doesnt make him one. Your a disgace to Christianity, God shares his thrown with no one not even the son. He sits Right of him, in the place of where Lucifer stood.
@MaestroInfernus you have to admit, at least @jesusholdmyhand is reading the bible. you people pray to the dead, which of course is forbidden in the bible by God himself so if you want to talk about blasphemy or sin or what's right or wrong, if it doesn't line up with the word of God, then it's wrong, bottom line, and about 95% of the catholic religion does not. ibso facto, catholicism is paganism
@widecelica Here in black and white, In all exactness, Is Biblical and infallible proof of the Orthodoxy and manditory ritual and beliefs practiced by the rghteous in The Holy Bible. Ibso facto. BTW oh heretical one, you should really study the proper usages of words in the English Language and study upon the words roots and meanings before you make a challenge. Praying TO and FOR the dead are compleletly different things. The word "to" makes reference to Worship while "For" is for pity sake.
@MaestroInfernus first of all, i don't go into the apocrypha (meaning of questionable authorship) because they are not inspired works of God so that removes about half of your verses. second of all, i will not debate with anyone whom just throws out verses out of context. read the context of those 2 verses in matthew. what does that have anything to do with my comment? are you referring to the falsehood of purgatory? cause if you are, you'd be wrong. BTW, praying to and for the dead? come on!
@widecelica if you knew anything about Biblical scripture you would know in order to have a foundation for the act of praying FOR the dead one must explain its reasonings, which souly exist because of a Purgatorial stasis. Again you are just an ignorant fool alsoTO and FOR- completely differant meanings. God's work is precise there is no room for error.
@MaestroInfernus please tell me the biblical scriptures of the Holy Bible, not apocrypha, giving any foundation of praying for the dead. and please explain your purgatorial stasis. i agree, God is always precise and infallible, unfortunately for you, he never stated anything to defend your paganistic belief.
@widecelica You will pay eternalyy for the blasphemy you say, Every scrape of what I sent is part of the one Holy Bible, not some Talmidic commentary you idiot, it lays upon the pages which you evil protestants ripped from the holy scriptures bound by the Bishops of the original church. You will suffer greatly for daring to spit upon Holy infallible writ. You know nothing.
@MaestroInfernus talmidic commentary? Who ever mentioned that? Anyways, you proved my point that you worship creation other then the creator. You say that the holy scriptures were bound by the bishops of the original church. I say again... The church is the body of Christ, not the "catholic" church or protestant...all born again believers. Look to God, not your fallible bishops.
@widecelica Wow this just Goes to show your an idiot, The church is the Way the way Was founded by Christ if you do not obide by the law the word and The one Church as Founded and aline your self under the name Christian then you are damned. which you have already proven by calling yourself born again. Talk about fallible people your congregations are nothing but a pity house for drug addicts and alchoholics looking for acceptance, the only thing they get is false fellowship but will never ever
@MaestroInfernus i'm the idiot? at least i know how to read. example: John 14:6: "Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me" hmm, i'm sure he said "I" and not "The Catholic Church" . align under the word? John 1:1: "In the Beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God" hmm, God is the word. doesn't mention anything about the Catholic church or a priest or anything.calling myself born again is damns me?
@MaestroInfernus (cont) John 3:3: Jesus answered and said to him, "truly, truly, i say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God" hmm, According to Jesus i'm not damned, but saved. weird how you twist teh scripture, but the scripture puts you right back on track. pity house? Luke 5:31: And Jesus answered and said to them, "it is not those who are well who need a physician, but those who are sick" doesn't sound like false fellowship to me or Jesus.
be forgiven. You cannot attain grace or forgiveness without having followed the way. And The Way is by the orthodoxy of the Church and the ONLY TRUE Churh is The Roman Catholic Church, under one authority one mind one soul one heart, and run by Tradition as Biblical Scripture DEMANds it to be. Creation is The only way not some offshoot bull that your ppeople infest the earth with. Cockroaches serve a better perpose then you vermin.
@MaestroInfernus attain grace or forgiveness? you mean salvation? i think we've been here before. Ephesians 2:8: For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is a gift of God" you don't "attain" a gift, you receive it.Ephesians 5:24: "But as the church is subject to Christ..." not the church.. now who's infesting where?
@widecelica What are you trying to get at by the attacks? I dont think youre as smart as you think you are. If youre trying to separate Christ & His church, you cant do it. I dont know who you are, a lone ranger Christian or not, but theres no sense in trying to convince anyone that a member of the body of Christ should be separated from His church. If you decide to put down others who follow a church then I think you need to make known what church you worship @ to give others equal opportunity.
ndzoko- Also, there are plenty of miracles and manifestations of God's power on Earth. Many healings you could research, places you could visit where miracles have occurred...such as Medjugorje where MILLIONS have witnessed miracles. Please note the number of witness'. Scientific tests have proved it is no hoax.
Ndftblwannabe1 2 weeks ago
@ndzoko You honestly would only believe the resurrection with physical proof or empirical data? The aspect of faith would be null and void in that case for all would believe. Most historians agree Jesus did exist on Earth and was crucified. To say no physical proof exists therefore it didn't happen is certainly a shallow way to look at things.
Ndftblwannabe1 2 weeks ago
@ndzoko..He can't give you any proof because there is none. Salvation is just a state of mind. It is all a part of the religious mind control. Especially in catholicism.
meisner73 2 weeks ago
@DeniqueCoelum Also Matthew 23:9 (Jesus speaking): "And do not call anyone on earth your father, for One is your Father, He who is in heaven." this dispells the pope and priests. you can't take one part of one verse and build an entire belief system on it, and then claim it's the truth
widecelica 2 months ago
@widecelica If christianity were .. the TRUTH... It would not have been splintered into thousands of fractions. It would be OBVIOUS to the world.
ndzoko 2 months ago
@ndzoko see, this is where you confuse the two: Christianity and Religion. Religion has splintered into thousands of different factions because Religion is Man-made. it's all about rules and regulations and traditions. Christianity is about a relationship and a lifestyle. if you had the two straight and did not confuse them, then you'd see clearly that it's the truth.
widecelica 1 month ago
@widecelica Christianity is not one belief, but a thousand different beliefs. Christianity has a violent past. To separate christianity from a " religion " is a poor attempt to brush under the carpet all that is wrong in it`s teachings, all that has been wrong in the following( including misinterpretation) of those teachings.
ndzoko 1 month ago
@ndzoko no sir. do not take your hate of Religion and apply it to everything. there is a huge difference between Christianity and Religion, which i've already explained. that violence you speak of was sanctioned by the church... by the religious, usually the catholic church. look at the true, first Christians, the one's that followed Christ and saw him resurrect, what violence did they commit? none, because Christianity is a relationship of love, not hatred.
widecelica 1 month ago
@widecelica Nobody saw him resurrected. There is not a single eyewitness report.
ndzoko 1 month ago
@ndzoko apparently you haven't read Matthew 28
widecelica 1 month ago
@Denique my response to this would be Matt 18:18 Jesus says "Truly i say to you, whatever you shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven" 19"...it shall be done for them by my father who is in heaven."
widecelica 2 months ago
such as Christ being nailed to a CROSS and NOT a stake. 160,000 differant denominations should automatically tell anyone seeking god that somethings a miss within that branch, theres also a bakers dozen of Orthodox that cant get the messages clear either, yet one church still remains the same, and thats the oldest faith of Christianity being the catholics.
MaestroInfernus 2 months ago
church in his own name, and botch the old testament and add words to the new? why was ok to follow the path of a loathsome gluttonous adulterous murderous king to establish a church for a whole nation to follow? why is ok to follow throw out and destroy tradition that The Church made in the beginning in concordance to the apostles themselves, why would anyone follow a movement that has not unified but constantly added and subtracted dogmas cult followings and non biblical traditions and facts
MaestroInfernus 2 months ago
@MaestroInfernus Your in-fighting is a sure sign that christianity is a mere human concoction.
ndzoko 2 months ago
Let me make this clear to every protestant in existence, The One Holy Catholic and ALL of its traditions are the very same church which bond the scriptures to together, Protestants why was it alright for Martin Luther( a roman catholic monk) to go against the VOWS which he swore unto God for chastity obedience and servitude just to rebel against the doctrine of original Christianity its laity and clergy as well as highest authority and earthly and godly just to knock up a nun and make a
MaestroInfernus 2 months ago
@MaestroInfernus Luthers` decision seems to have it`s origin in the decay of christianity in the Middle-Ages. Christianity had lost it`s credibility to honest believer, or do you agree with the actions of christianity in the past ?
ndzoko 2 months ago
I chuckle when protestants use the term "un-biblicle"
The term Trinity isn't mentioned in the Bible yet they baptize children "in the name of the father the son and the holy spirit".... That is not in the Bible... How dare they!...............
imax1971 2 months ago
2TIM 3:16
mezatopia 2 months ago
@mezatopia Indeed, the Bible is profitable for teaching, but it is not sufficient. Paul reminds us that we should also accept the teaching of the apostles as the word of God. Let us not forget that we must consider the Bible as a whole. God bless.
cburton103 2 months ago
@DeniqueCoelum Sorry, but there's simply no historical support. It's more than a matter of personal conviction. It's a matter of objective history. The "first principles" of Christianity can be found all throughout the writings of the early Christians. There's a reason that so many people convert to Catholicism after studying the early writings - it's because they (and the early Church) are distinctively Catholic.
Thank you for the good wishes, and I pray that God blesses and guides you as well
cburton103 2 months ago
@DeniqueCoelum You claim that "God has preserved the light of the truth in small, scattered groups of persecuted believers". This is a historical claim. Where's your historical support?
You see, multiple groups have claimed this over the years, but they invariably fail to have historical support. JM Carroll tried to claim this of the Baptists, for instance.
Of course God wouldn't allow the truth to be destroyed. He founded the Church on Peter and has maintained it throughout the ages in the CC
cburton103 2 months ago
@DeniqueCoelum Still at the end of the day you're relying on nothing more than a man's interpretation. There's clearly no promise for each man's interpretation of the Bible to be without error (even if he thinks the Holy Spirit is guiding him), because there are plenty of good Christians who interpret the Bible in contradictory ways. There must be another system that God intends, for we are told that the Church is the "pillar and bulwark of truth" (1 Timothy 3:15) - man's interpretation is not.
cburton103 2 months ago
@DeniqueCoelum I have two questions for you based on the opinions you've expressed.
You claim that we don't need anyone to tell us what to believe. How does that fit with Matthew 18:15-18 where Jesus tells us to "go to the church" if we have a disagreement between two believers. Doesn't this contradict your opinion?
The example of the Ethiopian eunuch in Acts 8 shows that we can't always understand by ourselves what we read in the Bible. How does that fit with not needing anything else?
cburton103 2 months ago
@DeniqueCoelum I agree that truth doesn't and cannot change.
The Church does not forbid its priests to marry, nor does it forbid its faithful to eat meat. The priests of the Church (in the western parts) take a vow of celibacy to follow the example of Christ and the advice of St. Paul. Also, the Church encourages the faithful to abstain from meat on Fridays in Lent to remember the sacrifice of our Lord on that Good Friday. Fasting from meat is certainly biblical. Why do you object to these?
cburton103 2 months ago
@DeniqueCoelum Saying that the practices of the Church can't change is silly. That's like saying that we should have to speak in the same language Jesus spoke, wear the same clothes, worship in the same order, etc. That would make you much more Catholics than you would care to be, because we can trace the order of the mass back to at least the 200's. The quote from Timothy (if it's the one I'm thinking) is written to early Gnostics, who forbid marriage and did not eat any meat at all. Context...
cburton103 2 months ago
@DeniqueCoelum I cannot but smile, when I read the assertions of people about god and religion. I have more confidence in people, who have the humility to admit: I don`` t know. I saw an interview lately on TV of an Anglican Bishop. Somebody in the audience asked ; Monsignor, do you believe in an afterlife, and if so what``s the evidence. Reply : I don`t know if there is an afterlife. Nobody ever returned from the dead. But I believe in God#``s love. He will take care of this problem.
ndzoko 2 months ago
@ndzoko well sir (if you are a sir, not sure by your name) that anglican bishop is incorrect because there have been people that came back from the dead. Jesus Christ being one and if you don't believe in the resurection of Jesus Christ, then you're not really a christian simply put. it is what it is.
widecelica 2 months ago
@widecelica There is not a single piece of evidence that the resurrection happened. If you have one, I am listening. There are many reasons why the resurrection is not true. One major one, it has no real purpose. Tell me, did the following happen ?>>
Matthew 27:52-53
"and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, and came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many." Thank you.
ndzoko 2 months ago
@ndzoko since i wasn't there i can't really tell you what did or did not happen but i do accept them as historical records which i must do because i wasn't there. just like you accept historical records of past times and civilizations because you weren't there to witness yourself.
widecelica 1 month ago
@widecelica just like you accept historical records of past times and civilizations because you weren't there to witness yourself. That`s very simplistic point of view, because you intentionally omit the EVIDENCE factor. I accept what I judge to have enough evidence to be believable, The bible is no exception. Besides, I don`t HAVE to believe any historical records. But one MUST believe the bible, or else ....
ndzoko 1 month ago
@ndzoko no sir, again you're wrong, which is not surprising. there is evidence, you just choose not to accept the evidence that comes forth... big difference. you don't have to believe the bible if you don't want to, that's what free will is all about. it is simplistic because it's a very simple idea that you want to make so much more complex. but of course i assume that you are the ultimate judge of historical reliance and you don't think the bible has enough, so it must not be true
widecelica 1 month ago
@widecelica I make it very simple. just give me ONE piece of irrefutable evidence for the whole salvation story. Thank you.
ndzoko 1 month ago
@ndzoko i love how you change the subject to attempt to make your point. in order to believe in salvation, you need to believe in sin and you can not believe in sin without believing in the goodness of God. if you refuse to believe, then there will be no salvation, so you don't even have to worry about it.
widecelica 1 month ago
@widecelica so you don't even have to worry about it. Don`t worry, .. I don`t worry.
ndzoko 1 month ago
@ndzoko do some reading: xenos.org/classes/papers/doubt.htm
widecelica 1 month ago
@widecelica Show me one, who has come back from the dead. The dead don`t come back. The ...near-dead.. yes.
ndzoko 2 months ago
@ndzoko umm, by definition, the near dead are not actually dead so it would be impossible to come BACK to life since they are still in life.
widecelica 1 month ago
@DeniqueCoelum Everything you believe in makes sense, orherwise you wouldn``t believe it, would you É.. Kids belief in Santa Claus is real.
ndzoko 2 months ago
@DeniqueCoelum No one claims to be the sole ambassador or priest for Christ, so I'm not sure where you get this idea from. Indeed, we are all ambassadors for Christ, and we are all part of "a royal priesthood, a holy nation". This is possible because Christ Jesus came and gave us the greatest sacrifice of all - himself.
As a side note, I'm not sure how your comment related to what I was talking about.
Also, if you're going to bash the CC, make sure you know what it teaches first
cburton103 2 months ago
Idiot. The tradition Paul speaks of is the Gospel itself. There weren't any gospels yet extant at the time he wrote the epistles, to which he could refer, so don't you think he might have been referring to the Gospel of Christ, and him crucified (1 Cor 2:2), the message he verbally preached to the Gentiles?
Roman Catholicism = pagan superstition = the whore of Babylon
cheagan 3 months ago
@cheagan Lay off the ad hominems, please. They have no part in an honest discussion. For what reason do you believe that Paul thinks all tradition will be written down as Sacred Scripture?
cburton103 2 months ago
@cburton103 Because otherwise, any guy in a funny hat could ostensibly come along and introduce whatever "doctrines" he pleases into the church... oh, wait - that's exactly what the RCC does! And don't worry, you're not alone in that. There are scores of other denominations who are guilty of that sin. The Reformers' goal was a return to the APOSTOLIC faith, based upon Apostolic documentation.
cheagan 2 months ago
@cheagan Once again, the ad hominems have no place in an intelligent conversation. The Pope does not and cannot introduce whatever doctrine he pleases. Catholic doctrine has always been the same as the deposit of faith given to the apostles. Throughout the years, the Church has clarified her teaching on various points. This should be expected, because the Church exists in an ever changing world with changing needs.
Sorry, but no denomination comes as close to the apostolic faith as Catholicism.
cburton103 2 months ago
@cheagan As a side note, you didn't even come close to answering my question (At least seriously, anyways. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that your "funny hat" argument isn't the best you've got.) Feel free to try again.
cburton103 2 months ago
@cburton103 It would take too long to enumerate the myriad ways in which the RCC has abrogated and nullified the Gospel of Jesus Christ, introducing the "veneration" of "saints" and Mary and requiring so-called "sacraments" which are nowhere to be found in the word of God. But therein is the argument: In Gal. 1:8-9, Paul says that "if any preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed." You know - that old Greek word "anathema" that the RCC loves so much!
cheagan 2 months ago
@cheagan The problem is that Christians of your stripe attempt to limit the Word of God to the Bible, but this is not so. Jesus himself is the Word of God (John 1). At the end of John's Gospel, we are told the world would not even be able to contain the books written of the things Jesus did. Paul tells us multiple times to follow the traditions passed down to us from the apostles (1 Thess 2:13, 2 Thess 2:15, 2 Tim 2:2). The beliefs and practices you disagree with are part of the ancient faith.
cburton103 2 months ago
@cburton103 If the traditions of the RCC were, in fact, the "traditions" mentioned by Paul, then they wouldn't CONTRADICT the word of God as recorded in the Bible. Why is that so difficult to grasp?
cheagan 2 months ago
@cheagan Ok, then tell me what Tradition of the Church contradicts the word of God as recorded by the Bible.
Here, Tradition means only Apostolic Tradition - those traditions passed down from the Apostles throughout the ages. Practices, or disciplines, of the Church can and do change (such as whether priests can marry, etc), so these are irrelevant to this discussion. Ideas which are also irrelevant are those which corrupted members within the Church may have taught, but not the Church itself.
cburton103 2 months ago
@cburton103 So, "coming close" to the Apostolic faith isn't even allowable, let alone admirable; there are very clear instructions as to the manner in which God is to be worshiped and His people are to be governed. The Gospel is simple enough for a child to understand, but that doesn't make for much profit, now does it? See Col 2:16-17 for an answer to just about every papist injunction ever foisted upon unsuspecting souls.
cheagan 2 months ago
@cheagan You've completely removed those verses from their context. Here, Paul is telling the Jews that they are no longer held to the parts of the Old Covenant Law that concern food, drink, or honoring feast days. Please remember how important the actual context is.
I think that the closer someone comes to the apostolic faith, the closer they are to the Church Christ founded on Peter; the Catholic Church. So by all means, please come closer to the apostolic faith.
cburton103 2 months ago
@cburton103 Please, do tell how you come about the knowledge that Paul is writing to Jews... in Colosse, which was in present-day Turkey. He is writing to CHRISTIANS, and as a Christian I read this epistle. On the contrary: Paul writes to a church who needs to be told to "continue in the faith grounded and settled, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel, WHICH YE HAVE HEARD". There's your "traditions".
cheagan 2 months ago
@cburton103 Paul takes his time "telling the Jews" about their freedom in Christ - only he does it in the epistle to the GALATIANS, not the Colossians. In fact, he calls the Colossians "dead in the uncircumcision of [their] flesh" (2:13)... I wonder if the Jews would have mistaken that for something directed at them? Not likely. Face it - as a RC, you have been taught NOTHING with regard to what God says in His perfect word. What you have, instead (vicarius in the Latin), is TRADITIONS OF MEN.
cheagan 2 months ago
@cheagan Sorry, I wasn't clear. I meant that Paul was telling the believers who were Jewish by heritage that they no longer had to follow the Old Covenant Law.
How can you say that I have been taught nothing with regard to God's Word when I've been discussing God's Word with you for a while now? Seems like you're too blinded by hate to see reality.
Back to the original question: What Tradition of the Church contradicts the word of God as recorded by the Bible? Refer below for the parameters.
cburton103 2 months ago
@cburton103 And again, you are simply wrong. How could Jews "by heritage" have been "uncircumcised"? That WAS their heritage - namely, the circumcision.
cheagan 2 months ago
@cheagan Sorry, once again. I didn't read it carefully enough the first time. It does not appear that the believers in Colosse were necessarily Jewish by heritage. Still, it remains the most obvious and likely interpretation that Paul is telling the believers here in Colosse that they shouldn't worry about those [Jewish people] who are telling them to obey the Old Law concerning food, drink and feast days. To extrapolate this to Catholicism is still certainly out of context. Answer my original q
cburton103 2 months ago
@cburton103 Perfect. Where there is no connection to RC dogma, a RC simply creates one. You can find plenty of writers on the internet who can elucidate the unBiblical nature of (mostly all of) the Romanist religion, if you're truly interested in truth. I'm not going to waste my time arguing with someone who cannot see his own hand in front of his face. Pearls and swine.
cheagan 2 months ago
@cheagan I've always found it simply unbelievable how people can be so incredibly rude to people that they're trying to evangelize, especially since Jesus never did such things.
You still never answered my question. I can only assume it's out of an inability to do so. Please don't let your hate blind you. God bless.
cburton103 2 months ago
@cburton103 I don't hate you; I don't even know you. What I hate... loathe... abhor... what fills me with the urge to defecate is those who would replace the knowledge of God with their own agenda to subject people to spiritual slavery. My family is yet in the grips of the pagan Roman Catholic religion, and they think they're saved! I will spend every ounce of my energy in waging war on what has been rightly called the devil's magnum opus - the Roman Catholic church. May God have mercy on you.
cheagan 2 months ago
@cburton103 Oh - and by the way, Jesus called the Pharisees "a brood of vipers", which means that He was calling their mother a snake, or a SERPENT... ie, the devil. And if you persist in your Catholicism, then that is exactly what you prove yourself to be - a son of the devil.
cheagan 2 months ago
@cburton103 So don't you tell me about Jesus; you have your "Jesus", your "Vicar of Christ", and he sits on a throne in Rome. My Jesus reigns at the right hand of His Father in heaven. And by virtue of His FINISHED work of redemption, I reign with Him, in Him.
cheagan 2 months ago
@cheagan Look, if you want to talk about Catholicism, that's perfectly fine. But the problem with what you're doing and what the vast majority of other anti-Catholics do is that they don't actually talk about Catholicism - they talk about their misunderstandings of Catholicism. We do not believe the Pope is Jesus, nor do we worship him. He is a man, like you and I. Jesus himself gave the Pope whatever power he does have. What do you think Matthew 16:18-19 means?
cburton103 2 months ago
@cburton103 It means that Jesus was to lay the foundation of the church upon the proclamation that HE is the Christ, the Son of the Living God... as if it could be laid upon another! 1 Cor 3:11 says it best. Your insistence upon "Peter" as the foundation of the Church is the claimant which "the church" relies on to keep you in subjection! Do you not think that the enemy would hide in plain sight? The "pope" has NO power!
Ask me what "anti-" means to a 1st C. Greek, as in 1 Jn 2:18... go ahead.
cheagan 2 months ago
@cheagan My insistence upon Peter as the Rock upon which Christ built the Church is because this is the interpretation that is in agreement with what the text actually says, and is the interpretation which believers have held since the earliest days of the Church. When is the first example when you can show that someone believed that Peter's confession of faith APART FROM Peter himself was the rock upon which the Church was built? You talk about going back to the apostolic roots, now prove it.
cburton103 2 months ago
@cburton103 The first example is 1 Cor 3:11.
cheagan 2 months ago
@cburton103 You don't believe the pope is Jesus? Well, the OFFICIAL Roman Catholic title of EVERY priest, bishop, and pope in the RCC is "Vicar of Christ", as in the Latin "vicarius", meaning "in place of" or "instead of". Now go read 1 Jn 2:18, and find out what "anti-" meant to a 1st C. Greek-speaker. It DOESN'T mean "against". It means "INSTEAD OF". You are a slave to ANTICHRIST!
cheagan 2 months ago
@cheagan You don't get to tell Catholics what they believe. I'll tell you what we believe. Vicar of Christ is a term that means that signifies the Pope's unique position as an ambassador of Christ to the world. A good analogy is to think of a president (Jesus) with an ambassador (the Pope) to another country. This does not mean that we believe the ambassador is the president, it simply means that the ambassador is standing in for the president when he is not physically there.
cburton103 2 months ago
@cheagan When is the first example when you can show that someone believed that Peter's confession of faith APART FROM Peter himself was the rock upon which the Church was built? You talk about going back to the apostolic roots, now prove it.
cburton103 2 months ago
@cburton103 And I won't say, "God bless" to you, sir. For to bid you God speed would be to be a partaker in your evil deeds. 2 Jn 11.
cheagan 2 months ago
@cburton103 I patently refuse to pursue this line until you admit that the very premise of your argument, namely, that the Col. passage is aimed at Jews, is flawed. But I expect that you won't, because part in parcel of the RCC's false teaching (along with the Baptists, Methodists, Evangelicals, Pentecostals, and non-denoms, to name a few) is a wholesale misunderstanding of who Israel is, and what the church is and has always been.
cheagan 2 months ago
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The Roman Catholic Church teaches unbiblical doctorines and celebrates Pagan holidays like Christmas and Easter Also pray to Saints and Mary which is completely unbiblical.
Mcstroke57 3 months ago
Nice try. Traditions. 1 Tim 4:1-5 expressly talks of Romanism's traditions and describes them as doctrines of devils; 1 Timothy 2:5-6 proves the Popes and Priests have no power or authority; Math 23:9 Jesus said "call no man Father for one is your Father, which is in heaven"; Ephesians 2:7-9 shows Romanism to be False. Salvation is the the GIFT of God, you will never earn it. Rev 17 Calls your "Mother Church", "Mystery Babylon Mother of Harlots." Jesus calls for you! come out of her. Rev 18:4.
Guardius9r 3 months ago
I hate that book. It makes no since, has no plot, has no developing character, is fast-paced, and the science fiction aspects suck!
LambOfGodHasNoPenis 3 months ago
@DeniqueCoelum From whatever angle one looks at christianity, it simply makes no sense. Even scriptures say so. I believe one pope died between the legs of his mistress.
ndzoko 3 months ago
Damn. You people are straight up Biblical scholars.
SX1995able 4 months ago
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@widecelica I know u never said the words "you must be literate to be saved" but u implied it by saying you dont need to belong to a church. Please understand some basic logic here. If you were illiterate, where would you go to find the truth of Christ? How could you trust that person is being honest w/ u about the truth of Christ? How do you know what you need to do to follow the Law of Christ? "What men have said" guess what those men lived in the footsteps of the Apostles & know more than u.
catchzz 6 months ago
I was right, you arent as smart as you think you are. You just twisted that verse to suit what you wanted it to say. Sure the gate is wide to destruction bc so many lack faith in Christ. This is not saying anything at all referring to the deposit of faith. In other words, you are interpreting that as anyone who believes in the majority of this or that interpretation is damned just bc they belong to the majority of believers. Sure you may not have said you were the infallible interpretor...cont
catchzz 6 months ago
@catchzz i'm lost. can you please clarify what is it taht it does mean (to you) and how you are saying i misinterpreted it?
widecelica 6 months ago
@widecelica Youre lost....I already new that but lucky for you I can educate you on Christian history & the church. Telling me you would point an illiterate person to the bible is like telling the bicycle rider how to get to the fueling station.
I want to know what scriptures say is the truth!
John 10:16 - And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd.
Believers can be outside the church.
catchzz 6 months ago
@catchzz believers outside the catholic church? yes. believers ARE the church but you're so twisted up in this Catholic church thing that you don't see that! you refuse to see the truth! and i agree with the sheep comment. Psalm 23:1 " The Lord is my shepherd..." the Bible is the Lords word therefore if you are a sheep following the shepherd's voice, you are following the Lords voice, the voice of truth. the infallible word of God - the Bible
widecelica 6 months ago
@widecelica Believers outside the universal church that is 1, holy, catholic, & apostolic. This sound like you? Bible is the written form of Gods Word but I hope you dont confine His Word to paper only. Gods Word is alive of which exists in His universal church built on the rock of Peter to whom Christ the head shepherd passed His authority down to & all the way to today in Apostolic Succession. Is your church built on that rock? Do you know the visible sign in scripture of passing on authority?
catchzz 6 months ago
@catchzz no, that's not the "church" i believe in because again, y ou're putting your sole trust on one man that has no Godly attributes. that passage was reffering to what his name meant. peter's other name, cephas, means Rock. he was in no way saying "hey buddy, you are my new rock, here's my power and uh, keep the party going! see ya!" you're got it all twisted. there is only one authority, and that's is the authority of Christ
widecelica 6 months ago
@widecelica I gotta run for now, but just so you know you are 100% incorrect on Peter & the Rock and I will show you why later. I will blow you out of the water on that one.
catchzz 6 months ago
@catchzz oh boy i can't wait
widecelica 6 months ago
@widecelica Do you know any Hebrew/Greek? Probably not bc I bet you havent studied scriptures in their native languages. Are you aware of what can potentially be lost in translations? Another reason why Christ est a true & visible church to teach the truth from Sacred Scripture & Sacred Tradition (& no Sacred Tradition has a clear distinction from traditions of men).
Since you think you know so much about scriptures, why havent you made sure nothing was lost in translation to the vernacular?
catchzz 6 months ago
@catchzz ohh, tapping into those credentials. so i assume you are fluent in both the spoken and written hebrew/greek as well as aramaic. ... very impressive. where did you get your schooling from?
widecelica 6 months ago
@widecelica Its called common sense and a little reading. Go check out the library, there are whole books written on this topic that washes your concept right down the drain.
You say you read the bible, but do you read other intellectual works?
Check out The Matthew 16 Controversy: Peter and the Rock by William Webster sometime. It helps to read about history, other languages/translations.
catchzz 6 months ago
@catchzz so you are telling me to go out and read a book written by a man who is claiming to have details or to halp you further understand a book where teh topic may or may not be a doctrine? so you pretty much want me to do what catholics do. gotcha
widecelica 6 months ago
@widecelica Did I say that? No & this was a very immature response. I told u to study scriptures & history. When the truth of that points to the Catholic church then u have a duty to answer to God.
Ive seen this mentality 100s of times but theres hope for u yet. I know many ppl who refused to hear out the Catholic church bc they wanted so badly to assume everything in it was wrong. Then they decided to hear it out & could no longer deny the truth of it. The Holy Spirit works in wonderful ways.
catchzz 6 months ago
@widecelica What are English words we see in scripture? "You are Peter, & on this rock I will build my Church." So whats this rock Jesus referred to in Aramaic? Since the gospel was trans. to Greek we have petros/petra both meaning rock. In Aramaic we have Kepha, same as petra. So what Jesus said was "You are Kepha, & on this kepha I will build my Church." Petra is feminine so Jesus didnt apply it to Peter. Christ used a demonstrative pronoun this bc Heused a metphor that applies to Peter.
catchzz 6 months ago
@catchzz do you realize what you just said? you just said that kepha is the same as petra, and then said that petra is feminine soJesus didn't apply it to peter. and then you confirmed your thought that the scripture was saying you are kepha (petra which is feminine) and on this kepha( petra feminine) i will build my church. your knowledge must be in line withi the catholic church cause it's all jacked up
widecelica 6 months ago
@widecelica Thats bc youre ignorant of the original language of which I just explained to you. In Aramaic, kepha has the same ending whether it refers to a rock or is used as a man’s name. In Greek, the word for rock, petra, is feminine in gender. Petra became Petros. Christ was telling Peter that he Peter is THIS ROCK & upon THIS ROCK I will build my church. Taking the next verse where the keys to the kingdom are handed over hence authority. Your interpretation makes no sense.
catchzz 6 months ago
@catchzz you're right, i don't know the language. where did you get your schooling again to be teaching me?
widecelica 6 months ago
@widecelica Apparently you dont understand my written words. This sounds a lot like all of those bible believing Christians who dont need to belong to a church bc they take the written words and distort them however suits them.
You must take scripture in its entirety. Simon was obviously renamed Peter for a reason. Look at the writings left behind by those who personally knew him & other Apostles who denied Peters Primacy.
catchzz 6 months ago
@catchzz okay teacher. make it easy for me. tell me who's books i should read so that i would know.
widecelica 6 months ago
@widecelica I already gave you one.
catchzz 6 months ago
@catchzz ***Correction, I meant to say find me one writer who personally knew Peter & other Apostles and denied Peters primacy.
catchzz 6 months ago
Ya shore, you betcha
MsCynthia56 6 months ago
annie46664 I appreciate the fact that you remain kind. But the Church is not man-made. It was founded by Christ as it explains in Matthew, where Jesus instituted his church and built it upon Peter when he gave him the Keys of the kingdom. God Bless
MsCynthia56 6 months ago
@MsCynthia56~ Thank you for your kindness too. That which you believe is, I'm sorry, untrue, but don't worry yourself, & certainly don't allow 'widecelica' to upset nor worry you in the SLIGHTEST, as she too has it all wrong.
RELAX! The real TRUTH is very soon to be delivered to ALL OF US, & if you wish for that to happen sooner, rather than later, please trust me, & telepathically invite TRUE friends & family of Jesus', those we refer to as ETs, to join us soonest! They will reveal ALL TRUTH!
annie46664 6 months ago
widecelica Christ DID give teaching Authority to the Church that he founded when he gave the Keys o/t Kingdom to Peter (1rst Pope) just like it states in Matthew. Your remark is so silly it doesn't really deserve an answer when you accuse me of putting the Church above GOD. The Church COMES from GOD, it is his will
MsCynthia56 6 months ago
@MsCynthia56 the Church is the body of Christ. that's where your falsehood is broken down. the Catholic church is an organization. the catholic church gets that mixed up. also, where is the verser or verses taht talks about Christ giving the keys of the kingdom to peter? your defense is silly and full of holes madam
widecelica 6 months ago
@MsCynthia56~ I don't wish to create an even larger hornets nest here, but I am of the strong belief (through finest & divine sources too) that neither God nor Jesus, ever condoned the concept of any church or any specific man-made 'place' of worship, & have only ever been greatly disappointed by all those places of worship built throughout the planet ever since the very 1st was built. Again, further to my comment below to 'widecelica', I stand to be corrected or hopefully, thought of kindly. :)
annie46664 6 months ago
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If you discovered that Obama was in fact a 'direct-line' descendant of Jesus Christ & (Black Ethiopian Goddess) Mary Magdalene, would it change your opinion of this highly spiritual being living 'hell' at the moment with his hands completely & utterly tied by the Illuminati?
Read here: whatdoesitmean. com/index1505. htm (no gaps!)
Live LOVE & LIGHT,
A long time fan of Obama's, thanks to Matthew Ward's divine guidance. Matthew has NEVER mentioned the possibility of the above though. :)
VO
annie46664 6 months ago
@annie46664 this is stupid beyond reason to defend.
widecelica 6 months ago
@widecelica ~ Oh well, it won't be long before we ALL learn ALL truths, & all I ask of you when that time comes, is that you think of me kindly. :) One thing that I do know for certain already, is that the Bible is loaded with untruths, having been hugely MANipulated by the very same 'lineage' of those creatures STILL controlling us after ALL these years (incl. of course the Vatican) ~ but their days are fast numbered & thanks God, they also know it!
I can't wait for TRUTH & JUSTICE.
Durban
annie46664 6 months ago
@annie46664 so i'm confused. are you a believer or not? also, what "untruths" do you speak of?
widecelica 6 months ago
@widecelica ~ I am most definitely a believer & 'lover' of God & Jesus, as well as Creator & ALL of their awesome creations, although I do have great difficulty loving those who have mislead, misguided & manipulated ALL of us for eons. I left the Catholic church 40yrs ago & had I not been born & raised into such, probably never would have joined. As for the untruths in the Bible, Oh gosh! I certainly don't know of ALL, but do know of too many to mention, which is bad enough for me personally.
annie46664 6 months ago
@annie46664 i agree with the catholic church comment. i think they twist scripture and pick and chose what they want to build off of to make their own paganistic rules and beliefs. in reference to the "untruths" if there's a lot there shouldn't be a problem with you mentioning just a few.
widecelica 6 months ago
@widecelica~ Sure. Jesus never died on any cross. He was severely punished of course, but banished & fled to India with His WIFE, Mary Magdalene, where they lived very happily & raised a family. Many years later, Mary left with their children for France, yet was 'telepathically' always in constant contact with the love of her life, Jesus. Jesus lived until a very ripe old age before dying a natural death in India. Jesus was never born of a 'virgin' as such ~ He was conceived like ALL of us were.
annie46664 6 months ago
@annie46664 lol, wow, so i assume you were lying when you said you were a believer
widecelica 6 months ago
@widecelica ~ I just KNEW instinctively dear one, having read a couple of your responses here, that you would most definitely return with that or similar to that which you have done.
Dear sister, I am NOT here to argue with ANYONE, anytime, & especially on that, which NOBODY, yes! not you nor I nor any other, can offer any of us honest FACTS on. All I attempt to do, is offer thought to the possibility, LIKELIHOOD of a very, very different picture to ANYTHING documented in ANY religious book!
annie46664 6 months ago
@annie46664 first of all, I'm a brother, not a sister. second of all, you claim to be a believer yet to take all meaning behind his sacrifice away and turn it into just some fairy tale. you should be ashamed of yourself. i am not here to argue either, only to defend what is being attacked and you attack all that stands behind the meaning and TRUTH of Christianity.
widecelica 6 months ago
@widecelica ~ OH BROTHER! Upset your weary, troubled heart NOT over such which neither one of us, nor anyone else, can determine the HONEST FACTS behind right now. What I do know for sure, is that Jesus & God & a whole 'bunch' of others in the know, are surely having a great chuckle at the absurdity of this liaison of ours. HA HA HA I wish to join THEM ~ pardon me for doing so & if you may or most probably will, consider such a SIN! As long as THEY don't, I'm more than HAPPY! :)
Good luck! :)
annie46664 6 months ago
@annie46664 i don't really think that God is chuckling at someone dragging his name through the mud such as you re doing at this point.
widecelica 6 months ago
@widecelica ~ Oh gosh! Forgive me ~ there's obviously WAY more misunderstanding here, as I had NO intention whatsoever of dragging anyone's name through MUD, & the ONE I know without a shadow of any doubt, knows this deepest, is GOD ~ & hopefully, His son & our brother Jesus, also knows as much!
Hey! I truly believe that we've spent sufficient time in one another's company ~ at least it feels like that to me ~ so let's offer this space to others. Who knows, they could teach you A LOT!
Byeeee
annie46664 6 months ago
@annie46664 that we have. i'm sure you would learn a lot more if your weren't so stubborn. have a good day.
widecelica 6 months ago
@widecelica~Further more ~ It sickens me, being like you too, a mere mortal (human being) raised on FALSE TEACHINGS through & through, how those going around, claiming to be so righteous or whatever, are invariably the VERY FIRST to be impolite & even accusing in their manner ~ especially with such pathetic ones like "liar". Dear one, get one thing straight at least, PLEASE, God is totally & absolutely NON-JUDGEMENTAL & ONLY EVER ALL FORGIVING!
If you believe otherwise, you have it ALL WRONG!
annie46664 6 months ago
@annie46664 furthermore, it sickens me that you attempt to pass a made up story from i don't know where off as fact. please, tell me where you got your facts? France wasn't even a country at that time so i know your "possibility" is completely out of whack. i agree that God is forgiving. but not judgmental? are you reading the same book? He IS the Judge! he will judge us all. and you say i call you a liar, but i have not, thus making you a liar.
widecelica 6 months ago
@widecelica ~DARLING! You cannot even recall your very own accusations of but a mere few hours ago, so please let us leave this one to rest, & agree to disagree amicably at least. I love you nonetheless~esp. having noted your determination & tenacity towards reaching the truth. If I can possible offer any advice~continue to do so, but, realize that your results & accomplishments will be far greater devoid of any insults.
"lol, wow, so i assume you were lying when you said you were a believer"
annie46664 6 months ago
@annie46664 actually i do remember, and if i recall correctly, that was a question, not an accusation
widecelica 6 months ago
In this video, the very definition of the "Sola Scriptura" doctrine is wrong. Roman Catholic Church does not believe that God spoken Word is found in Scripture alone but in their tradition, not the tradition (teachings) which Paul was writing about in 2The. 2:15 but the tradition based on the idea that the Magisterium headed by the Pope is the final & infallible authority in all things! So, instead of the doctrine of Sola Scriptura, we have the doctrine of Sola Ecclesia.
bulyabalive 6 months ago
"Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father." John 14:9
"I and the Father are one." John 10:30
JesusHoldMyHand1 6 months ago
what a great vocabulary between christians . . . Whom want to be a christian when while express our self so wild. . .
casandramom 6 months ago
FAVOR = to looked on by God - to be blessed by God
"...The Lord looked WITH favor on Abel and his offering." Genesis 4:4
"But Noah FOUND favor in the eyes of the Lord." Genesis 6:8
"But the angel said to her, "Do not be afraid, Mary, you have FOUND favor with God." Luke 1:30
James, the Lord's Brother was met by the Apostle Paul in Galatians 1:18-19.
Read: Matthew 13:53-58; Mark 6:1-6; Luke 8:19-21; John 2:12; John 7:1-5 "For even his OWN brothers did NOT believe Him." John 7:5
JesusHoldMyHand1 7 months ago
@HumanVersion2 the only rape thats going on are the devils agents masking themselves as holy men, and the majority of them came from non catholic backrounds. On top of that Have you checked the mormons? Paligamists, incestious and pedophilic now thats shocking.
MaestroInfernus 7 months ago
@MaestroInfernus BTW why do you use the word prostitute?? Mary was FAITHFUL to her husband & that is why THEY together had MANY children. Do you honestly believe that Joseph's WIFE was a cold, hard woman? No, she LOVED her husband.
JesusHoldMyHand1 7 months ago
@JesusHoldMyHand1 It is you who dare slander the name of the Holy mother mary rejecting her greatness. You treat her as a prostitute. with the way you speak about her and you dare smack the face of the lords mother. you've gt gaul sir.
MaestroInfernus 6 months ago
@MaestroInfernus You are REJECTING the very WORD OF GOD. There is a name for that: IDOLATRY & BLASPHEMY. You, my friend are BLIND to the TRUTH.
JesusHoldMyHand1 6 months ago
@JesusHoldMyHand1 It is you who go by botched bible and spit on tradition you protestant bastard you will Burn in Hell. You have no regard for those above you, no regard for tradition, nno regard for history, orthodox doctrine scripture, rituals, and The truth. You might as well kill yourself to bring you to hell all the faster and purge the world of your blaphemous pestilance.
MaestroInfernus 6 months ago
@JesusHoldMyHand1 I bet you cant even tell the name of The Lord.
MaestroInfernus 6 months ago
@MaestroInfernus Yeshua HaMashiach
JesusHoldMyHand1 6 months ago
@JesusHoldMyHand1 The Old testiment refers only to God and the Messiah to come, God and the Messiagh is NEVER EVER to e mixed, ever, that is blasphemy. The messiah is the sacrifice God made to suffering souls he loved so much. He is nothing compared to God he is just the son, he is just the example of wha wordshipers should be, he is Holiest amongst man, but he is still a man. worship God. Adore the savior and the mothr who bore him, show rspect for his saints who lived for God
MaestroInfernus 6 months ago
@MaestroInfernus Jesus Christ was also seen in the Old Testament: Exodus 24:9-12; 6:2-5; 33:11; Genesis 18; 32:30; Numbers 12:6-8; Daniel 3:16; plus many, many passages in Exodus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, Joshua, etc. I'm not lying to you. The main problem when you are in a cult, you don't study the Bible. You "listen" to what other people say, but you don't check it out for yourself. Just like purgatory.....FALSE Death then JUDGMENT No praying for the dead; their destination is SEALED
JesusHoldMyHand1 6 months ago
@JesusHoldMyHand1 Wrong!!! i listened to know one you evil fuck. I found God by studying!!!! and His name is not Jesus it is Yahshua, son of Yahweh!!!! you are the cult you are the satan!!! Satan means etrayer in Hebrew just so you know, Purgatory is supported throughout the old testiment and new, tat is why the hebrews say the prayer of Kahdish and All souls are judged On JUDGMENT DAYCheck Revelations. The sould who remain in death do not rest they lament for sins made in life for those taken
MaestroInfernus 6 months ago
@MaestroInfernus Oh, did the Lord teach you how to type those vulgar cuss words?? You definately belong to satan. Good luck, to you.
JesusHoldMyHand1 6 months ago
@JesusHoldMyHand1 Luck is fictional, and a pagan belief, your foul and a bastard, that is truth you protestant filth, your damned.
MaestroInfernus 6 months ago
@MaestroInfernus "I am the Alpha & Omega, who was, who is and who is come come, the Almighty." Revelation 1:8 Jesus Christ speaking. "I am the First & the Last..." Isaiah 44:6; 48:12; Revelation 1:17; 22:13 Jesus Christ is the Word, the Word is God, the Word CREATED everything, the WORD became Flesh. John 1:1-5 & v14; Jesus is the "image of the invisible God who CREATED everything" Colossians 1:15-20; Jesus Christ is Lord - Genesis 12:7; 18; 32:30; Exodus 6:2-5; 24:9-12; 33:11; Numbers 12:6-8
JesusHoldMyHand1 6 months ago
@JesusHoldMyHand1 And? Btw your King James txt is Historically invalid, so what ever you present is automatically blasphemy. And None of that disproves the infallibility of the One Church, which is the Holy Catholic Church. btw its Yahshua not Jesus, and he is a servant to man we only worship God, he is devinly set apart because he was begotten by the Sinnless mother Mary. Ibso Facto, you are a fool.
MaestroInfernus 6 months ago
@MaestroInfernus Jesus is LORD in the Old Testament - His Hebrew Name is Yeshus HaMashiach
JesusHoldMyHand1 6 months ago
@JesusHoldMyHand1 God is the father, who shares his thrown with NO ONE!!!!! Yahshua is prophesied in the Old Testiment, It said he would be named Emanuel. Your a disgrace to God, heretic perish in your ignorance.
MaestroInfernus 6 months ago
@MaestroInfernus "I am the Alpha and Omega, says the LORD GOD, who is, who was, and who is to come, the ALMIGHTY." Revelation 1:8 (Jesus speaking) You not only argue with GOD'S WORD, but now you're arguing WITH God Almighty. Go figure.
JesusHoldMyHand1 6 months ago
@JesusHoldMyHand1 SON OF GOD he is not GOD!!!!!!! blasphemer you will lay in hell for the demons to feast upon your flesh, victory shall be Gods.
MaestroInfernus 6 months ago
@MaestroInfernus Dude I shouldn't have to tell you this, because you sound Catholic, but Jesus is God the second person in the trinity. Read your Catechism. And btw I have a rule if you can't get your point across without being volgar and insulting Im going to have to block you
ithcus777 6 months ago
@ithcus777 Yahshua is not God in any Catechism teaching. He is The servant king, The son of God, and yes is a part of the trinity. He is respresentitive for God, that doesnt make him one. Your a disgace to Christianity, God shares his thrown with no one not even the son. He sits Right of him, in the place of where Lucifer stood.
MaestroInfernus 6 months ago
@MaestroInfernus you have to admit, at least @jesusholdmyhand is reading the bible. you people pray to the dead, which of course is forbidden in the bible by God himself so if you want to talk about blasphemy or sin or what's right or wrong, if it doesn't line up with the word of God, then it's wrong, bottom line, and about 95% of the catholic religion does not. ibso facto, catholicism is paganism
widecelica 6 months ago
@widecelica Here in black and white, In all exactness, Is Biblical and infallible proof of the Orthodoxy and manditory ritual and beliefs practiced by the rghteous in The Holy Bible. Ibso facto. BTW oh heretical one, you should really study the proper usages of words in the English Language and study upon the words roots and meanings before you make a challenge. Praying TO and FOR the dead are compleletly different things. The word "to" makes reference to Worship while "For" is for pity sake.
MaestroInfernus 6 months ago
St. Matt. 5:26, 18:34; St. Luke 12:58-59, St. Matt. 5:48, Mal. 3:2-3, Zech. 13:8-9, Sirach 2:5, Wis. 3:5-6, Dan 12:10, Rev. 3:18-19, St. Jude 1:23, 1 St. Peter 1:6-7, 1 Cor. 3:13 1 Cor. 3:14,15,17, 2 Macc. 12:43-45, Zech. 9:11,Baruch 3:4, Gen. 50:10; Num. 20:29; Deut. 34:8, Phil. 2:10, 2 St. Tim. 1:16-18, Heb. 12:14, Heb. 12:23, 1 St. Peter 3:19; 4:6, Rev. 21:4, Rev. 21:27, St. Luke 23:43. enjoy you protestant filth.
MaestroInfernus 6 months ago
@MaestroInfernus first of all, i don't go into the apocrypha (meaning of questionable authorship) because they are not inspired works of God so that removes about half of your verses. second of all, i will not debate with anyone whom just throws out verses out of context. read the context of those 2 verses in matthew. what does that have anything to do with my comment? are you referring to the falsehood of purgatory? cause if you are, you'd be wrong. BTW, praying to and for the dead? come on!
widecelica 6 months ago
@widecelica if you knew anything about Biblical scripture you would know in order to have a foundation for the act of praying FOR the dead one must explain its reasonings, which souly exist because of a Purgatorial stasis. Again you are just an ignorant fool alsoTO and FOR- completely differant meanings. God's work is precise there is no room for error.
MaestroInfernus 6 months ago
@MaestroInfernus please tell me the biblical scriptures of the Holy Bible, not apocrypha, giving any foundation of praying for the dead. and please explain your purgatorial stasis. i agree, God is always precise and infallible, unfortunately for you, he never stated anything to defend your paganistic belief.
widecelica 6 months ago
@widecelica You will pay eternalyy for the blasphemy you say, Every scrape of what I sent is part of the one Holy Bible, not some Talmidic commentary you idiot, it lays upon the pages which you evil protestants ripped from the holy scriptures bound by the Bishops of the original church. You will suffer greatly for daring to spit upon Holy infallible writ. You know nothing.
MaestroInfernus 6 months ago
@MaestroInfernus talmidic commentary? Who ever mentioned that? Anyways, you proved my point that you worship creation other then the creator. You say that the holy scriptures were bound by the bishops of the original church. I say again... The church is the body of Christ, not the "catholic" church or protestant...all born again believers. Look to God, not your fallible bishops.
widecelica 6 months ago
@widecelica Wow this just Goes to show your an idiot, The church is the Way the way Was founded by Christ if you do not obide by the law the word and The one Church as Founded and aline your self under the name Christian then you are damned. which you have already proven by calling yourself born again. Talk about fallible people your congregations are nothing but a pity house for drug addicts and alchoholics looking for acceptance, the only thing they get is false fellowship but will never ever
MaestroInfernus 6 months ago
@MaestroInfernus i'm the idiot? at least i know how to read. example: John 14:6: "Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me" hmm, i'm sure he said "I" and not "The Catholic Church" . align under the word? John 1:1: "In the Beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God" hmm, God is the word. doesn't mention anything about the Catholic church or a priest or anything.calling myself born again is damns me?
widecelica 6 months ago
@MaestroInfernus (cont) John 3:3: Jesus answered and said to him, "truly, truly, i say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God" hmm, According to Jesus i'm not damned, but saved. weird how you twist teh scripture, but the scripture puts you right back on track. pity house? Luke 5:31: And Jesus answered and said to them, "it is not those who are well who need a physician, but those who are sick" doesn't sound like false fellowship to me or Jesus.
widecelica 6 months ago
be forgiven. You cannot attain grace or forgiveness without having followed the way. And The Way is by the orthodoxy of the Church and the ONLY TRUE Churh is The Roman Catholic Church, under one authority one mind one soul one heart, and run by Tradition as Biblical Scripture DEMANds it to be. Creation is The only way not some offshoot bull that your ppeople infest the earth with. Cockroaches serve a better perpose then you vermin.
MaestroInfernus 6 months ago
@MaestroInfernus attain grace or forgiveness? you mean salvation? i think we've been here before. Ephesians 2:8: For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is a gift of God" you don't "attain" a gift, you receive it.Ephesians 5:24: "But as the church is subject to Christ..." not the church.. now who's infesting where?
widecelica 6 months ago
@widecelica What are you trying to get at by the attacks? I dont think youre as smart as you think you are. If youre trying to separate Christ & His church, you cant do it. I dont know who you are, a lone ranger Christian or not, but theres no sense in trying to convince anyone that a member of the body of Christ should be separated from His church. If you decide to put down others who follow a church then I think you need to make known what church you worship @ to give others equal opportunity.
catchzz 6 months ago