If you keep studying ask any ancient Hebrew scholar. I don't mean kind of Hebrew kind of Scholar I mean, a real Hebrew scholar will differentiate between Achad and Echad. Remove the made up Nikkud from the text which made Achad,Echad. If text did not have the Nikkud added to it, it would not be an argument. The debate would not exist. The word Achad means alone. It does not mean one.
@adonelahi 'achad (אחד) is not about unity and doesn't occur in the verses discussed that I am aware
You MAY mean yachad (יחד ) which is a verb, to make one. This is a problem for you because then you trapping yourself into saying God is made, the Holy Trinity was somehow made. Which actually I would agree. It was made up.
The word GOD occurs 1300 times in the NT and means on those 1300 occurrences the Father, and never a Triune God! This evidence is conclusive. Jesus recited the unitarian creed of Israel in Mark 12:29. To follow Jesus means to follow his creed. Jesus was not a Trinitarian.
@AbrahamicMovement You might try and explain that more. Jesus was God in the flesh the redeemer and a one time offering for the sins of mankind. One reason we don't need anymore offerings yearly for the redemption of sin's. No created person or being has that power not even an Angel.
God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirt are one in the same. we have God in Heaven, God that come to earth to redeem us threw Jesus Christ and his Holy Spirit that now dwells in the hearts of mankind. We are his temples now
Great closing statements. However, in his citation of 1 Cor 8:6 Joseph conveniently missed out that the Lord Jesus as an agent in creation is included in the identity of "one God" as proclaimed in the Shema.
@OnlineBibleMinistry And the Trinitarians clearly won the debate. While some here are saying it is simply because of 'showmanship', I think their arguments are generally better. Their engagement with the Biblical texts and contexts was superior. While I am sure Buzzard has better formulated answers, he appeared arrogant and did not seem to say much other than playing dumb repeating "two YHWHs". And Joseph could learn from Intertestmanetal literature instead of the Rabbinic texts ;)
@AbrahamicMovement If God died, did He die because He was helpless or because He wanted to? Also, after His death what became of the body. I mean, you and I know that death is the greatest of debtors and anyone held in its shackles is gone. Did the power of death hold Him down or what happened after His death?
The thing I could and can't grasp about the "trinity" is that it makes language useless. Why is Jesus called, "The Son of God" (which is how I refer to Him) if He is His own son? Why would He pray in the garden that not His will be done, but His Father's if it was His own will anyway?
Jesus was more "human" than anyone in history because He fulfills God's original intent in making humans in the first place (to be made in His, God's, image). Look at Hebrews 2.
Trinitarians +1 again. They will continue to win these debates until those defending Monotheism (Unitarians) hit the root issue. The issue being that the trinity has allowed the Church to worship "Jesus" as the Almighty Creator God the Father. Develop an offense, let them explain how 3=1 instead of getting bogged down explaining the obvious 1=1. At the outset call the trinity doctrine what it is, confused and move on to the Majesty of God and the contribution of the only "begotten" Son.
I don't believe in the trinity, but white/brown won this debate. They were good at cutting off buzzard/good while they talk, and they talked more. They also looked more confident with all their grins and laughs. I think to someone who goes to a church that teaches the trinity, but only knows what the preacher tells them(meaning they are too lazy to do their own resreach), this debate wouldn't change their minds.
You are congratulating them on showmanship. If showmanship is what influences honest hearts, then they won.
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About preachers/pastors, I don't meet many church people who press the idea of the trinity, even when their church's official position is trinitarian.
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Where Buzzard-Good fell short includes nailing the arbitrariness of the trini in where GOD is being used for the trinity and where it is being used for a person. Such as, if GOD IS 3 persons, and GOD sent forth Jesus >
@newtguy I know what you mean. Actually, both Brown and White have their own radio shows. Could have something to do with their sharpness and speaking abilities. (I do like some of Brown and White's non-trinitarian stuff, though.)
They may have lost in the debate because they didn't speak enough and didn't attack correctly, but they didn't lose in truth. Many things were ignored that would have crushed the Trinitarians.
@nilhav ...I do not think so. If anything, it uncovered how warped trinis minds are when arguing the Trinity. For example to say "I have a problem saying 'the Son of God' died'" and 'we know it [God] is not an it" [Brown].
Yeah I have agreed that the Unitarians have lost this battle, but there are some much much more evidences that support the Unitarians. For instance they have not really touch on the Holy Spirit about the bias bible editors that make it sound the Holy Spirit is a Person. Why it sounds like a person is because the masculine Language of the Hebrew and Greek. All of the ancient Jewish writings never ever say that the Holy Spirit was a being, but it was decide in the council of 425A.D.
Yeah I have agreed that the Unitarians have lost this battle, but there are some much much more evidences that support the Unitarians. For instance they have not really touch on the Holy Spirit about the bias bible editors that make it sound the Holy Spirit is a Person. Why it sounds like a person is because the masculine Language of the Hebrew and Greek. All of the ancient Jewish writings never ever say that the Holy Spirit was a being, but it was decide in the council of 425A.D.
If you keep studying ask any ancient Hebrew scholar. I don't mean kind of Hebrew kind of Scholar I mean, a real Hebrew scholar will differentiate between Achad and Echad. Remove the made up Nikkud from the text which made Achad,Echad. If text did not have the Nikkud added to it, it would not be an argument. The debate would not exist. The word Achad means alone. It does not mean one.
adonelahi 5 months ago
Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
-Jesus Christ. Achad is not Echad. The real meaning lies in Achad.
adonelahi 5 months ago
@adonelahi 'achad (אחד) is not about unity and doesn't occur in the verses discussed that I am aware
You MAY mean yachad (יחד ) which is a verb, to make one. This is a problem for you because then you trapping yourself into saying God is made, the Holy Trinity was somehow made. Which actually I would agree. It was made up.
LovingScrubbies 5 months ago
I was surprised the unitarians bowed their heads in prayer to the Triune God that Bernice was praying too.
DonJay777 6 months ago
@DonJay777 and we're not surprised how deluded most of you people are.
AbrahamicMovement 6 months ago
@DonJay777 They prayed to The Father in the Name of The Son.
adonelahi 5 months ago
The word GOD occurs 1300 times in the NT and means on those 1300 occurrences the Father, and never a Triune God! This evidence is conclusive. Jesus recited the unitarian creed of Israel in Mark 12:29. To follow Jesus means to follow his creed. Jesus was not a Trinitarian.
AbrahamicMovement 6 months ago
@AbrahamicMovement You might try and explain that more. Jesus was God in the flesh the redeemer and a one time offering for the sins of mankind. One reason we don't need anymore offerings yearly for the redemption of sin's. No created person or being has that power not even an Angel.
God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirt are one in the same. we have God in Heaven, God that come to earth to redeem us threw Jesus Christ and his Holy Spirit that now dwells in the hearts of mankind. We are his temples now
WizzRacing 5 months ago
@WizzRacing
Absolutely!!! AMEN!!
1988TheHitman 4 months ago
Great closing statements. However, in his citation of 1 Cor 8:6 Joseph conveniently missed out that the Lord Jesus as an agent in creation is included in the identity of "one God" as proclaimed in the Shema.
OnlineBibleMinistry 10 months ago 2
@OnlineBibleMinistry And the Trinitarians clearly won the debate. While some here are saying it is simply because of 'showmanship', I think their arguments are generally better. Their engagement with the Biblical texts and contexts was superior. While I am sure Buzzard has better formulated answers, he appeared arrogant and did not seem to say much other than playing dumb repeating "two YHWHs". And Joseph could learn from Intertestmanetal literature instead of the Rabbinic texts ;)
OnlineBibleMinistry 10 months ago
@OnlineBibleMinistry so God was born and died?
AbrahamicMovement 10 months ago
@AbrahamicMovement If God died, did He die because He was helpless or because He wanted to? Also, after His death what became of the body. I mean, you and I know that death is the greatest of debtors and anyone held in its shackles is gone. Did the power of death hold Him down or what happened after His death?
73geneva 6 months ago
@73geneva God raised His Son from the dead. He did not raise himself.
AbrahamicMovement 6 months ago
@AbrahamicMovement So why was He raised? Why wasn't Abraham, Moses etc raised?
73geneva 6 months ago
@73geneva because they were not the promised Messiah? Whats your point anyway?
AbrahamicMovement 6 months ago
The thing I could and can't grasp about the "trinity" is that it makes language useless. Why is Jesus called, "The Son of God" (which is how I refer to Him) if He is His own son? Why would He pray in the garden that not His will be done, but His Father's if it was His own will anyway?
Jesus was more "human" than anyone in history because He fulfills God's original intent in making humans in the first place (to be made in His, God's, image). Look at Hebrews 2.
Interesting debate though. Thanks!
whodidyouexpect 1 year ago
Trinitarians +1 again. They will continue to win these debates until those defending Monotheism (Unitarians) hit the root issue. The issue being that the trinity has allowed the Church to worship "Jesus" as the Almighty Creator God the Father. Develop an offense, let them explain how 3=1 instead of getting bogged down explaining the obvious 1=1. At the outset call the trinity doctrine what it is, confused and move on to the Majesty of God and the contribution of the only "begotten" Son.
joe9027 1 year ago
I don't believe in the trinity, but white/brown won this debate. They were good at cutting off buzzard/good while they talk, and they talked more. They also looked more confident with all their grins and laughs. I think to someone who goes to a church that teaches the trinity, but only knows what the preacher tells them(meaning they are too lazy to do their own resreach), this debate wouldn't change their minds.
newtguy 1 year ago
@newtguy
You are congratulating them on showmanship. If showmanship is what influences honest hearts, then they won.
-
About preachers/pastors, I don't meet many church people who press the idea of the trinity, even when their church's official position is trinitarian.
-
Where Buzzard-Good fell short includes nailing the arbitrariness of the trini in where GOD is being used for the trinity and where it is being used for a person. Such as, if GOD IS 3 persons, and GOD sent forth Jesus >
LovingScrubbies 1 year ago
@LovingScrubbies
> then, 3 persons sent forth Jesus.
LovingScrubbies 1 year ago
@newtguy I know what you mean. Actually, both Brown and White have their own radio shows. Could have something to do with their sharpness and speaking abilities. (I do like some of Brown and White's non-trinitarian stuff, though.)
whodidyouexpect 1 year ago
Aww..The Unitarians loses badly in this debate.
RepentCaloocan 1 year ago 2
@RepentCaloocan...not for long friend.
AbrahamicMovement 1 year ago
@RepentCaloocan
They may have lost in the debate because they didn't speak enough and didn't attack correctly, but they didn't lose in truth. Many things were ignored that would have crushed the Trinitarians.
nilhav 1 year ago
@nilhav ...I do not think so. If anything, it uncovered how warped trinis minds are when arguing the Trinity. For example to say "I have a problem saying 'the Son of God' died'" and 'we know it [God] is not an it" [Brown].
AbrahamicMovement 1 year ago
@AbrahamicMovement
I think White invented "You're assuming unitarianism".
Funny line. Design to mind-control, not to reason.
LovingScrubbies 1 year ago
Yeah I have agreed that the Unitarians have lost this battle, but there are some much much more evidences that support the Unitarians. For instance they have not really touch on the Holy Spirit about the bias bible editors that make it sound the Holy Spirit is a Person. Why it sounds like a person is because the masculine Language of the Hebrew and Greek. All of the ancient Jewish writings never ever say that the Holy Spirit was a being, but it was decide in the council of 425A.D.
nev87ratt 11 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Yeah I have agreed that the Unitarians have lost this battle, but there are some much much more evidences that support the Unitarians. For instance they have not really touch on the Holy Spirit about the bias bible editors that make it sound the Holy Spirit is a Person. Why it sounds like a person is because the masculine Language of the Hebrew and Greek. All of the ancient Jewish writings never ever say that the Holy Spirit was a being, but it was decide in the council of 425A.D.
nev87ratt 11 months ago