David Silverman to a church: "Read your Bible!"

[bary1234]

Reading the bible from cover to cover is the best way to converts christians to Atheism.

That book is such a miserable pile of stinking shit.

David Silverman is awesome.

[ACEdualblade]

There is nothing more annoying in this world than a Christian who says shit, and doesn't even know what he's talking about, mostly because he hasn't even read the bible, and states every line from it; "out of context."

[caseybv74]

Is there a full version of the debate anywhere?

[GodVlogger]

David Silverman is awesome.

He is spot on with his advice to read the Bible, cover to cover.

Read the Bible front to back, without skipping to just the nicer parts, and without pausing to let some preacher brainwash you to smooth over what you are reading.

The VAST majority of modern humans will recognize the Bible as ancient superstitions and will see that it has inferior morals (anti-woman, pro-slavery, pro-genocide, etc.)

Christians: it's your Bible... read it front to back. We dare you.

[wubbadubdub]

david silverman is the bomb

[chinamanspeakenlis]

wow..juust wow.. how these morons started clappin when he said " murders, rapists can go to heaven"..just wow.

[Jayfoxpox]

Pretty ironic how the the downfall of Christianity may result from reading the bible .

[nickthenab1]

@Jayfoxpox what the heck are you talking about? the Bible is the "manual" for Christianity... the downfall of any one is not reading the Bible.

[Jayfoxpox]

@nickthenab1

There's an infinite interpretations to the bible leading to tens of thousands of denominations and sects, each with their unique cherry picking . Not only that ,but it has been repeatedly translated and rewritten and parts added and omitted .By now it's probably unrecognizable to the original. Seems like a pretty poor manual to me.

[GuineaPigDan]

Something just occurred to me. The logic that "many separated cultures have similar morality, therefore an outside source (eg God) gave it to them" isn't too different from people that say "many separated cultures like the Aztecs and Egyptians have similar pyramid designs, therefore an outside source (eg aliens) gave it to them."

[rcguy69]

I was raised Catholic and moved around the country to about a dozen cities with the army. Everywhere I met people that called themselves Christians and all they cared about was themselves. What people call Christianity is a me-first cult: my soul, my salvation, my faith, my relationship, my ticket to heaven. Their ugliness was blatant: in politics, in judgement, in hypocrisy, in hatred and in condemnation. Christianity breeds monsters.

[AvalonDraconis]

In the Christian religion, a person who rapes and murders 1000 kids "comes to Jesus" before he dies will go to heaven.

Yet an atheist (or anyone who isn't Christian for that matter) who lives a good life donating to charities, feeding the homeless, and doing everything they can to help everyone they meet will go to hell.

THAT is so FUCKED up. And one of the main reasons why I hate Christianity.

[sdbielz]

I'm so glad I had a front row seat. David Silverman destroyed Alex McFarland. Too bad that, to a church, the winner of a debate is the person they most agree with.

[TheHigherVoltage]

If the Christian God is real, then the Creator of the universe is a schizophrenic psychopath - without justice, without love, and verifiably, lies.

[Metalcupcakes]

So will murderers go to hell?

That's a good question, now let me do a book plug.

[TheSH1N1GAM1]

We are all the same species, so our brains function in similar ways. There is your common morality.

There are cannibalistic cultures, so I think that proves that morality is somewhat a social construct.

[TheSH1N1GAM1]

I like how everything is "a journey" or you need to "seek out" something, and by the way, here is the easy version of something for you to read. Even their language makes me sick.

[Sabohaque]

"The Anglos"

The what? Oh, you mean "the English." I bet he picked that up from his dumb redneck buddies.

[georgek19]

complete non-sequiter to say "well morality had to come from some outside source if it occurs in independent societies"

what's the simpler, likely explanation? it's biological.

[kleenex3000]

I am sceptic, about the usefulness of "careful reading" of the Holy Scripture. The brainZ of believerZ are "preformed" through the THEO'philic INFECTION, and they fail to perceive what even UTMOST OBSCENITY is.

HOW COME, we read that G-D had his chosen people to FIDDLE with the Genitalia of their precious newborn boyZ, and I am YET to find anybody, that is shocked, and highly disgusted through an obscene, paedosexuel-pornographic Covenant, established through Reductive Surgery.

ANYBODY???!

[physcotherapist]

i wish there was a button that killed all the christians

[AgentOfDoubt]

@physcotherapist I would never puch such a button if it existed, but I'm sure McFarland thinks that they're developing one in Iran right now...

[kleenex3000]

@physcotherapist I wish there was a button that killed the incurable ALIEN of FAITH PSYCHOSIS, W/in the skulls of the BelieverZ. Too bad that I cannot operate on all these infected Frontal Lobes and extract the THEO'philic POMI (Personification of Mental Illness).

[thelighteningbolt519]

@physcotherapist Then you're just as bad as the worst fundamentalists. You hateful, hateful person.

[bary1234]

@physcotherapist Whow we would be so screwed with the muslims after that :)

And a button that kills all superstitious people would leave just couple of billion humans. Maybe less.

That might still be good, this planet would surely feel better for it.

[RationalRat]

You hear the Christians clap because they haven't read it, don't know what's in it, and assume that it's all good. There are very few Christians who have read their bible and those that have choose to give excuses and generally ignore what much of it says.

For those Christians who are too lazy to read the whole thing, why not start with the resurrection accounts in all four gospels and tell us what actually happened after Jesus supposedly resurrected?

[1949rickray]

How's the saying go? The best way to become atheist is to read the bible.

[phenixwryter]

Cool debate, cool challenge, cool vid, cool article.

After party at Old Chicago-very cool.

[DavorMATF]

So, Hitler can go to heaven and I can't? Well, I don't want to go to your heaven, I'd prefer hell.

[fruitikay]

Hey Agent. Stop being a good journalist. lol. :)

[4TehLulz]

That christian guy is FABUUULOUUUS.

[parentheticalstain]

@4TehLulz hahahahahaa. i thought i was the only one who picked up on that

[MistressArte]

If only...

[olegkikin]

It's hilarious that christian apologist admitted that murderers and rapist can easily go to heaven, but any good person who is not a christian, goes to hell.

That's completely immoral any way you look at it.

Hitler, who as a catholic, is a good example. According to the bible, he's in heaven.

[Randomicity912]

@olegkikin

"Hitler, who as a catholic, is a good example."

It's hilarious that people claim Hitler was a Catholic, when Germany was a protestant country, Hitler never observed mass or any of the sacraments in his adult life, the Nazis actively persecuted Christians who did not accept "Positive Christianity", thousands of nuns and priests were arrested, Hitler broke pretty much every tenet in the Bible, and Hitler privately planned to abolish Christianity.

[physcotherapist]

@Randomicity912 u r retarted

[Randomicity912]

@physcotherapist

*You are retarded. And you're welcome. :)

[olegkikin]

@Randomicity912 You're wrong. In his book he talks about doing god's work like 25 times. Every SS soldier had a belt buckle that said "Gott mit uns" ("God is with us"). You're also wrong about him never observing a mass. Go to google images and search for "hitler catholic mass" (without quotes).

And it doesn't matter that he broke every tenet in your book. According to the same book, all that takes to get to heaven is a belief in your god. Christian apologist said exactly that in the video.

[thunderbolt94]

@olegkikin

"And it doesn't matter that he broke every tenet in your book. According to the same book, all that takes to get to heaven is a belief in your god."

James 2:14-27. Look it up.

[olegkikin]

@thunderbolt94 James 2:14-27 says nothing about getting into this hypothetical heaven.

[thunderbolt94]

@olegkikin

Actually, it does, because it goes into justification, and justification is important when it comes to understanding how one gets into Heaven. Faith without works is dead, and you can't get into heaven if you are not justified. Anyone who believes all you need to do to is believe in Jesus in order to get to Heaven is dead wrong! Unequivocally wrong! Wrong to the 100% to the tea.

[olegkikin]

@thunderbolt94 Oh, that's your interpretation. The verse you linked to doesn't even mention heaven.

Name one sin (except for the unforgivable) that will prevent you from going to heaven, according to the bible. Are you saying murderers can't be "saved"?

[thunderbolt94]

@olegkikin

No, it's not "my interpretation." It's the interpretation that has been understood by Orthodox Christianity since the beginning. You obviously have no understanding of what justification is, nor do you understand the Catholic/Orthodox understanding of these passages in question.

You are an idiot who does not deserve to be taken seriously.

[olegkikin]

@thunderbolt94 Oh, ad hominem, personal attack. You lost.

[thunderbolt94]

@olegkikin

Actually, it's an insult, not an ad hominem. An ad hominem is when you use an insult in place of an argument. I just plain out insulted you, so thus no ad hominem.

You obviously do not understand what justification is, and how Apostolic Christianity understands how justification works in order for one to attain Heaven.

(P.S. in case you haven't figured it out by now, I'm a Roman Catholic, not a protestant).

[olegkikin]

@thunderbolt94 I have no more interest in what you're saying. You lost as soon as you insulted me, and didn't answer about an example. Stop replying to me please. You're an idiot.

[thunderbolt94]

@olegkikin

Actually, insulting someone doesn't automatically mean that person lost the debate. I insulted you because you are an idiot, and deserve to be treated like the idiot. I pointed out to you James 2:14-27 refutes your argument, and I called you an idiot because it became obvious that you have no understanding of justification. It's pretty obvious that you're understanding of Christianity is based on sunday school, and hasn't changed since.

Crack a book and study, kid.

[olegkikin]

@thunderbolt94 You lost. Now fuck off.

[thunderbolt94]

@olegkikin

"No fuck off."

No thanks. I'm straight, so I have no interest in fucking you. Thanks for the offer though. ;)

[Randomicity912]

@olegkikin

Your historical illiteracy amuses me. Since you are such a fan of "Google scholarship" then try Googling Hitler's Table Talk. Hitler was very anti-religious in private, and planned to overthrow Christianity. He simply lied about his beliefs for political gain. I can also tell you have never read the Bible in depth, since simply believing in God does not get you into heaven. Jesus was very specific that those who claimed to follow Him but in reality did not would not get into heaven.

[olegkikin]

@Randomicity912 I hope you understand the difference between organized institutionalized religion and personal faith based on a certain book. Hitler criticized organized religion, indeed. So do most believers.

Pope and his crooks sitting on a golden throne, covering child raping buddies, while talking about helping poor and how immoral gays are is just obscene, and becomes more and more evident with the internet. I actually thing it's great, he created more atheists than Dawkins could dream of

[Randomicity912]

@olegkikin

Hitler criticised Christianity as a whole, not just "organised religion." In his private table talk, he said that he was tolerating Christianity for now but that he intended to crush it and bring the power of the state down on "those damned parsons." He also complained about Germany being a Christian nation at the time, stating that Christianity was meek and flabby. Hitler had religious beliefs, they just weren't Christian.

[olegkikin]

@Randomicity912 No true Scotsman logical fallacy. He called himself a christian, whether you disagree or not.

Nowhere in Table Talk Hitler denounces Jesus. If anything, he admires him. Table Talk is all about bashing organized religion. Plus it looks like Table Talk has been favorably mistranslated, specifically by Genoud. It's an extremely controversial document. Meanwhile there's a ton of evidence, documentary and photographic that Hitler and high-ranking Catholics were best buddies.

[Randomicity912]

@olegkikin

Ah. How silly of me. Someone calls themselves something, that makes them that thing. I guess I can call myself a vegetarian even though I eat bacon, chicken, burgers, and sausages. According to you, I am as equally vegetarian as the people who abstain from all meat. if they denounce me, then they are just using the "no true Scotsman" fallacy! Also, never mind that in the correctly translated version of Table Talk, Hitler still bashes Christianity.

[olegkikin]

@Randomicity912 Ok, then define what "Christian" means. There are thousands of secs of christianity, and most of them think that the rest are not true christians, they all cherry-pick different parts of the bible to follow (I'm sure you do too). I don't belong to any of them, so for me, a christian is somebody who believes in the christian god, and I have no reason to believe that Hitler didn't.

A vegetarian is somebody who doesn't eat meat. So I'm not sure why you gave that silly example.

[TheHigherVoltage]

@Randomicity912 "Hitler still bashes Christianity." Who the fuck cares what Hitler was. He convinced a self-proclaimed 94% Christian nation to go on a rampage for Jesus.

Christianity is a cult - no different than Islam in it's ability to sell hate and war as love and peace.

[Randomicity912]

@olegkikin

Also, it is kind of ironic how you are now claiming that Hitler criticised organised religion but that he was also a good Catholic. Moving the goalposts at its finest.

[Randomicity912]

@olegkikin

Oops, that should read anti-Christian not anti-religious, since he was still religious despite privately hating Christianity.

[olegkikin]

@Randomicity912 I actually have an unrelated question, and I like how civil you are in the discussion. I don't mean it to insult you, I'm just curious.

Did you give away all your possessions? And if you didn't, then why?

Luke 12:33: "Sell your possessions and give to the poor."

Matthew 19:24: "it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God"

[Randomicity912]

@olegkikin

"It's hilarious that christian apologist admitted that murderers and rapist can easily go to heaven, but any good person who is not a christian, goes to hell."

Any Christian who says that has a particularly poor understanding of the Biblical concept heaven and hell. I won't be able to articulate the exact ins and outs in a YouTube comments section, but let's suffice it to say that salvation is not a one-off event where you intellectually assent belief in God, but a lifelong process.

[MGlBlaze]

@Randomicity912 Hell is never even actually mentioned in the bible. It was primarily inserted into the King James et. al. versions as a means of manipulation; the concept of hell as most know it in fact came from the poem A Divine Comedy, specifically Dante's Inferno. In the more recent re-translations, hell is found to be mentioned 0 times; in both the old and new testaments. The punishment is actually Death; final death; as opposed to living forever. You just go away.

Fine by me.

[Randomicity912]

@MGlBlaze

That is one interpretation (known as annihilationism.) Another is that hell is eternal separation from God. Whereas the view of hell as place of literal fire and torture is a late Medieval invention primarily based upon Dante's Inferno as you rightly note.

[calmreason]

They sound like they haven't.

I doubt they will.

I mean what a dumb question. Even outside of a theological debate. USA civil war? Slavery is OK vs slavery is bad?

[no2religions]

The Bible: Making atheists for more than 2000 years

[Randomicity912]

@no2religions

Odd how I've read the Bible 7 times, and I have yet to become an atheist. Then again, I've read the Bible critically.

[talkingprimate]

@Randomicity912 You followed the directions at the beginning that told you what parts to read as allegory and what to believe as fact? That was very helpful to me.

[Randomicity912]

@talkingprimate

Kind of. I read the Bible in its proper socio-cultural and linguistic context. That was a big help. For instance, Proverbs and Job are proverbial literature, Psalms and Song of Solomon are, well, songs.

[wearestarstuffsagan]

the fact that the christian mentions other societies having the same moral values shows in itself that the bible is not the source of our morals. rapists can go to heaven for simply believing a pathetic fairytale yet the raped women or child will go to hell for simply not being a gullible dumbass. christians disgust me to no end, fuck christians and their barbaric and outright stupid beleifs

[thunderbolt94]

@AgentOfDoubt

You're completely missing my point. I wasn't talking about "Christian" scholarship or apologetics. I was talking about the ENTIRE field of biblical scholarship from reputable scholars (example Bart Ehrman) or to understand the cultural background. I wasn't talking about the morality of what was described in these said texts (you can decry it as barbaric; I don't care). You're putting arguments in my mouth that I never made.

[AgentOfDoubt]

@thunderbolt94 What percentage of historical biblical scholarship would you say is written from an unbiased viewpoint, and what are the chances that these parishioners will find any unbiased books in their church bookstore or in any bookstore in the section they will be looking? Would you say that McFarland's suggestion of C.S. Lewis' book is there as an unbiased source of biblical support?

[thunderbolt94]

@AgentOfDoubt

I'm not denying that McFarland's suggestion to read C.S. Lewis's book is biased. What I'm saying that to just read without a guide as Silverman is suggesting is ridiculous. I can understanding not reading it from a Christian pov, but I cannot understand not reading the Bible in light of the current biblical scholarship. I have respect for nonbelievers who do engage the scholarship (ex. VG, Itsthesuperfly, etc.) and don't just read the Bible without engaging the scholarship.

[AgentOfDoubt]

@thunderbolt94 Which book do you recommend me to read that will get me to stop complaining that rape is always wrong? If my argument that rape is always wrong and that your god condoning it is wrong, I'd like to start with that book please...

[thunderbolt94]

@AgentOfDoubt

Once again, you are missing my point and putting an argument in my mouth that I never made. I'm not defending the morality of the OT, nor am I making an argument that God did in the OT was morally just or right. I'm not even making that argument in the slightest. All I'm saying is that Silverman's suggestion is misguided and self-defeating because if we wen't by his suggestion, then we would have no choice but to ignore the cultural background of the Bible.

(cont)

[thunderbolt94]

@AgentOfDoubt

(cont 2)

I'm not suggesting in the slightest that one is to agree or condone God's actions. I'm talking about understanding the cultural background of the text, regardless as to whether or not one finds what God did moral. Hell, I'm not even assuming that God even exists when I say that it's important to understand the cultural background of the text. If we took Silverman's suggestion, then we would have more people like BionicDance simply trashing the Bible without

(cont)

[thunderbolt94]

@AgentOfDoubt

(cont 3)

giving an intelligent critique of the religion, or even the text itself. That is ALL I'm saying.

[AgentOfDoubt]

@thunderbolt94 OK. I'm not saying YOU have an argument, I'm saying >>>AGENTOFDOUBT<<< has an argument that there is no justifiable situation for something attributed to your god, and I don't want ANY argument from you, I'd like the book that will teach me how I am wrong in my criticism of your god. Could you please direct me to the LITERATURE or scholarly works that would help me resolve MY problem with your god.

[happyjesus123]

Murder (unlawful killing is wrong), stealing (unlawful taking of property is wrong), rape/incest (unlawful sex is wrong). Wow, all societies believe that breaking their laws/customs is wrong. This must be evidence of God or at least Santa.

[HappyAtheist76]

Ah the old "Read C.S. Lewis" argument. I've heard it many times. lol :)

[thunderbolt94]

I love how Silverman just assumes sola scriptura in order to make his argument to work.

[AgentOfDoubt]

@thunderbolt94 This was in a very evangelical church...

[thunderbolt94]

@AgentOfDoubt

But even that being the case, I think Silverman's suggestion is self-defeating, as just studying the Bible on your own without a guide is silly. By Silverman's logic, we shouldn't go to academic scholarship or reference literature scholars when studying the Bible.

[AgentOfDoubt]

@thunderbolt94 By guide I'm sure he meant an apologist pastor holding your hand. I'm sure he was looking for moments in the Bible where rape victims are made to marry their rapists and people making the determination for themselves that there is no possible explanation that any scholar can provide that can make the various things in the Bible like this OK for any circumstance. Their own moral thoughts will prevail, and your God will look barbaric compared to their own feelings.

[thunderbolt94]

@AgentOfDoubt

Without academic scholarship or literary analysis, reading the Bible on your own without a guide gives one who does not have training into this field gives leeway for one to come to an educated, unacademic view of the source material in question, regardless of that person's beliefs (or lack there of).

Then again, I take David Silverman as seriously as I do Ray Comfort. To me, they're not different from each other with the exception of one being Christian and the other atheist.

[AgentOfDoubt]

@thunderbolt94 So, God gives us the Bible so that only a select few will ever understand it? It seems to me that your God is impotent if he can't get with the times and email me a list of citations and corrections to all the mistakes people have made while attempting to preserve his chronicles. Next time you pray to him, could you please have him attach to my email a list of situations where rape is condonable. LOLZ

[talkingprimate]

@AgentOfDoubt God gave us the Interwebs!

[wearestarstuffsagan]

@thunderbolt94 the problem is that those "guides" will most likely be other christians who will not be honest but will simply state some bullshit interpretation that is so obviously not the message of the bible.

[chinamanspeakenlis]

@thunderbolt94 what do you mean ASSUMES..??? thrz nothin to assume, everythin is in there.. READ IT. He's absolutely right.

[raw5069]

that's great advice

[Imgoing2LoveYou]

I'm interested to watch the entire debate... however I do not want to buy the DVD because it goes to organized religion. If anyone knows me, they know I don't have a problem with religion. I have a problem with churches.

"The nearer the church, the further from God" ~ Bishop Lancelot Andrewes (1555-1626)

[HappyAtheist76]

@Imgoing2LoveYou I agree. I'm all for people being spiritual, in any religious idea christianity included, without feeling the need to go to a building every week. I'm not at all the type to say that just because someone's religious/spiritual they're automatically stupid.