I guess it is true when Buckley said "Now listen, you God damned queer, stop calling me a crypto Nazi or I'll nail you in your god damn face and you'll stay plastered!" he did look very floppish.
Can't believe the vitriol posted on this link. Shame on you all. We're watching and listening to two of the most articulate Americans of the 20th Century descending into the playground. . .to me, Gore Vidal is an American hero, Buckley not so much. . .
Gore Vidal was and still is a steaming pile of slug feces. Socialist feces was very common in this country in the 60's and 70's I know because I lived through it. And now we are living with a president who is an embodiment of those declining hippy commie socialist days. I myself did not know how deep the crap had gotten until the mid 80's. At this late state of affairs I feel the youth are so mis-educated that recovery of what has been lost may sadly be unrecoverable.Buck should have punched him
@TheWanderinSoul Calm down angry man. Go put on your SS uniform and watch some Wings of the Luftwaffe. Are you gonna make some argument that the poor Nazi's were trying to do good things for the peoples of Europe? Please learn me all about the homophobic take on the real Nazi party.
@TheWanderinSoul Do your own research. Unlike YOU I don't just blindly accept an interested parties perspective without taking all the information into consideration. Even if that means having the patience to hear the all opposing sides. They were just radical solutions to valid problems. And the "homophobic" comment you are playing off of was based on YOUR comment, not Nazi values. In fact, they were't racist nor homophobic. Get your facts straight. Racist and homophobic motives are from jews.
What all you homophobic right -wing nazis need is a nice big huge cock down your throat to gag on ,and shut you up once and for all, ha ha! Eat shit & die!
@iggypopbowie77 Wow, thanks for showin what a complete fuckin idiot you are. There was nothing homophobic in my comments you lame sack of shit. I am not a Nazi, "right wing", nor homophobic so there goes your point, if there was one. Nice try though, dipshit.
@iggypopbowie77 HAHAHA!!!! Is that your best attempt, you miserable fuckin troll? Why don't you try saying something intelligent for once instead of spewing garbage like a five year old?
@iggypopbowie77 HAHAHA!!!! You are such a foolish old man. One would think you might have learned something useful in your FORTY SIX YEARS on this Earth. You can't even come up with good rebuttals. I thought you were no older than sixteen by your comments. Damn, wish I was right, for your sake.
At least we still have public, secular schools open to everyone. As imperfect as public schooling is, it is far better than the alternative -- relying on either highly conditional philanthropic intervention or the even worse prospect of churches and "faith based" orders getting another tax free freeride on the system to raise a bunch of empty headed, Christian Patriot Talibani. The last thing we need are the madrasses for the masses brand of schooling dismantlign public schools would create.
Listen to Gore Vidal's aristocratic accent - almost British! Is such a tone a historical inflection - a particular dramatization assumed by 'the serious intellectual' in public declamations of the time - of an accent that still persists but is no longer performed as such, or is it a bygone accent altogether, one that originated from some encalve of urbane Brahmans but is no longer spoken?
Our public schools WERE the crown jewel of Western democracies before self serving elites voted to tie school investment with local property taxes. Right wing demagogues love to advocate policies that choke the blood supply to the institutions they despise and then wonder why such institutions, handicapped as they are, do not meet performance expectations. But I would stack California's public university system (pre Prop 13) against any heavily subsidized private univeristy any day of the week.
@bc9021010001 IF? William Fuckwad Buckley has a lot of nerve calling Gore Vidal a queer on national tv. That is the policy of right wing thugs like him. good riddance. what a disgusting, smarmy, fag he was. Gore Vidal was right to label him a Nazi. He loves storm trooper tactics as he clearly proclaims and to call him out sent him on a personal attack. He was the most disgusting bully the right sent out.
@john48martin I know of no proof or any serious suggestion that Buckley was gay, not even a tabloid blind item, & Buckley was a celebrity most of his life. I saw him debate in person & he was an imposing physical presence. Some think any articulate man is effeminate, and some think any effeminate man is gay; both assumptions are fallacious. I don't understand your use of the archaic pejorative "fag" in reference to Buckley as fascist.
Haha! I'm uneducated? Talk about psychological projection. Because "negro" appears in a title that was created decades ago doesn't mean it is therefore appropriate to use it outside that title now. the NAACP is another example using the word colored. No one who is living on the SURFACE of this planet uses terms like those anymore. The reason is because anytime anyone use those words now it's a safe bet they are probably backwards racist morons. Consider yourself exhibit A.
@MrGrevy Do i have to explain for you what the term "means of production" means. In socialist litterature it is a term used when telling if the factories is owned by the workers or the capitalist.
If terms and things around seems to continue to be bizarr, the you should see the doctor.
Grevy Marxist analysis of ownership of MoP within capitalism
The analysis of people's relationships with the means of production is one element that stands at the basis of Marxism Marx argued that, while in pre-capitalist societies it is clearly the labourer that uses the means of production to create product; in capitalism, whose nature as a mode of production is embodied in its drive to reproduce and increase capital, it is more realistic to say that the means of production uses the labourer.
Communism is a failed ideology and Socialism is it's crippled ugly relative. Why anyone keeps on insisting to try and implement these unworkable and oppressive systems is beyond any reason.
@davidavraham2008Communism and socialism only fail when attempting to implement them on a wide scale as the dominant form of government/economy. Dozens of countries the world over have more or less successfully integrated certain individual ideas derived from them into their democratic societies and capitalist economies. It's where you get the term "social democracy".
@davidavraham2008 its really just an existenial dilemma of modernity, because socialism involves moral judgment of everyone involved, and not many are ready for that commitment
Please tell us the bright line divisions between "socialism" and the unfettered free market capitalist model that presumably you praise. Ready to work What tripe Sundays? Let school for the overwhelming majority being offered on a whim by benevolent organizations? Want to privatize police force? Anything remotely "socialist" about environmental regulation? Guess we should close the doors on the SEC while we are at it - let those unregulated secondary derivatives markets guide the capital markets
@bertinotti You have no idea why America got rich, do you? It wasn't through regulation. Don't talk to me about working hard. I work 70 hours a week. I work with hands and my head. Go regulate yourself and wise up.
@bertinotti so our public "schools" perpetually fail when measured against the rest of the western world. despite our amazing public police force, we have more crime than anyone else and al gore has single handedly fucked the so called enviro movement into irrelevance.
kindly tell me again how awesome liberal american socialism is.
Ithaca, West Hartford, Burlington, Milton, River Oaks, Marin, and on and on and on provide examples of stunning public schools that are progressive and highly functioning. You'll note that they do it without sponsorship by a fantastically wealthy, philanthropic elite (as was the case prior to modern public schooling); you'll note that to learn physics in these chools you don't have to fake believing in a fairy tale like the baby Jesus (as is the case in, say, a Church sponsored system).
@davidavraham2008 What about the oppressive natures of capitalism, as well as the obvious social exclusion. There is no political system which works, so let's not choose one or two to disagree with, to further your invalid point.
it is btter to be of one amongst the many than to take refuge in the anonymity of safety in mumbers. The man at the head of the mob is usually a conservative with violence and bigotry in his mind and hatred in his heart.
These videos always remind me that, in 40 years, the American Left has changed not a bit.
While Buckley decries egging on people to murder American Marines, Vidal's sole reply is that he is a "Nazi" and then gets pissy when this angers Buckley enough that he calls him a queer.
In short, as this video demonstrates, the American Left has never given a damn when we in the military die, they call everyone who disagrees with them a Nazi, and they're too childish to do naught but when retorted to.
I don't know how stupid one could be to believe in "spreading democracy" and other bs, of which the most ridiculous stupid explanation I've ever heard is "if we don't go there, they'll come here" you must be extremely stupid to believe that poor half naked , hungry people can afford doing anything of the kind
No one believes that they will "come here" i've no idea where you could even conceive of such an argument. At the time, the theory was, and has proven correct, that Communism could spread throughout southeast Asia, thus lending political and strategic power to the USSR. It was wholly a correct view, as history has shown.
What was mistaken in Vietnam wasn't the theory of the spread of communism and countering it, it was in not realizing this was not what was occurring in Nam, as it had in Korea
That's exactly what I said, the Vietnamese were believed to be influenced by the USSR as Korea was, this was simply not understood to be a different conflict at the time.
And are you kidding? What's "scary" about communism? Go visit the USSR circa 1969. Visit North Korea right now. Go to China and try to Google "Tienamen Square" and see what happens to you.
And when you root for the soldiers of your own country to be brutally killed, you are an evil traitor, and deserve the fate of traitors.
"were believed" but incorrectly, but it doesn't matter
the question stays - why interfere?
your soldiers were killed because they invaded foreign country period.
I'll tell you about communism - I'm not kidding - I was born and raised in "communistic" country and trust me it has its advantages.
it was no worse than the USA today.
I'm limited by the character count to elaborate on that, but I had a happy childhood trust me and I seriously doubt my kids will be that happy and safe in America
Lmfao!! Yeah, it's a happy fun time until you try to tell the government that you disapprove of something it does and suddenly you find yourself in a prison cell.
But who needs, freedom, right? SO overblown, that idea of personal freedom and personal privacy. So horrid. MUCH prefer the "advantages" of a country where summary executions are the norm.
You should read the writings of the Founding Fathers of America, it might Enlighten your ignorant mind.
Clearly you know better than me what I've experienced first hand. And you know better than me what I have read. It's a tragic irony that the country which stood for so long as the beacon of freedom is presently inhabited with "enlighten" individuals like yourself, who are are so arrogant in their self confidence and would not respect different points of view...
its way too long to explain to you that N.Korea has nothing to do with what we had in East Europe.Furthermore the freedoms you think you have in the USA? are you kiddin me you really think you live in a free country? any parallels with US government actions will be too elusive for your intelligence
You know I just remembered one interview with the famous russian director(whom I'm sure you've never heard of) Nikita Mikhalkov while making "The Barber of Siberia", he litterally said: "while showing the scenario in the USA, I happened to realize that our old time Soviet censors, were little kids in comparison with their american counterpart, for e.g. they told me "you can not make a movie showing an american sergeant,who never heard about Mozart""
You are confusing Communism with Dictatorship. While most examples of communism today take place in Orwellian hell holes, that is not by definition what communism is.
@Rereversed Incorrect. You're confusing communism in "theory" vs. communism in "practice". The theory is inherently flawed in every way as it is impossible in any human society. It completely fails to take into account human nature. It's akin to making up a society based on Never Never Land.
Communism in PRACTICE is a dictatorship. Invariably. Always.
Define insanity: Try something a thousand times, always with the same result, and then attempt it again and imagine the result will change
Communism and Socialism are economic systems like Capitalism, whereas dictatorships and democracies are political systems.
The fact that Communism and Socialism seem to be tied to dictatorship has more to do with the traditional means of Communism's implementation, namely the violent overthrow of the existing government by armed rebels.
If democratically introduced, Communist and Socialist policies do not create dictatorships, as Finland, Norway, and Sweden can attest to.
@MrGrevy (((Means of production is owned by the few rich in finland, norway and Sweden.))) ok That was my reply to Rereversed comment: (((If democratically introduced, Communist and Socialist policies do not create dictatorships, as Finland, Norway, and Sweden can attest to.)))
OK. I can explain further. Rereversed comment is wrong. Finland, Norway and Sweden does not have Communist or Socialist policies. We got a socialdemocratic system. Most ownership is private.
@17thknight - How about the Paris Commune? The problem, as has been said, lies not in the economics of it, but in the political 'solutions' that are proposed to implement it, such as stalinism and maoism.
@piejesus1991 I agree, but that's the point. It is utterly impossible implement communism on any large scale, especially in a government.
Sine the Neolithic, every form of government has, invariably, required some form of bureaucracy or leadership. The very existence of such an institution already causes dysfunction in the "equality" of communism. It simply cannot function on large/governmental scales.
USSR had no influence in Vietnam? How did they get their hands on MIG 21s without Soviet influence? And don't you realize the Vietnam war was about stopping/slowing down communist expansionism going on in the world at that time? After Korean War, the PKK event in Indonesia, Cambodia, Laos, there was a need to stop the onslaught the way the West didn't do in Eastern Europe. Africa, South America, Communism were running rampant. The cold war was a war of ideology
Americans misguided nationalism is being and will be used to tyrranize the people. The people are to have some say in their gov't - at least that was the point of the Declaration of Independence and Constitution - yet the US gov't repeatedly takes actions that 98% of its collateral are against. We have already lost our gov't, but we may be able to keep our country. The Democrats & Republicans are the enemy. Be a Conservative/Liberal: work hard & help EVERYBODY, just like Jesus says. No killing!
If we leave the dialectic of our respective ideologies (many of which were concocted by the paid scribes of the oligarchy) then we will see that the hidden masters have rendered the poor destitute & impoverished the middle class using Republican neoconservatism and now they are preparing to liberate the well-off & rich of their money under the guise of financing state sponsored eugenics under the guise of old/new national socialism led by Obama & Rahm Emanuel. Look for young goosesteppers next.
I wonder if Gore Vidal admitted he was wrong about the "Viet Cong has a right to set up their own form of government" statement, after millions were slaughtered and force starved after the US left?
I don't think so. The left never has to say sorry, because their identity rests in the moment of intentions, and feelings, and not real individualistic identity.
The larger the State grows, the smaller the individual becomes.
"The domino theory was accurate. The ASEAN (Association of Southeast Asian Nations) countries, Philippines, Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore and Thailand stayed free of Communism because of the U.S. commitment to Vietnam. The Indonesians threw the Soviets out in 1966 because of America's commitment in Vietnam. Without that commitment, Communism would have swept all the way to the Malacca Straits that is south of Singapore and of great strategic importance to the free world."
Our leaving, for 'PEACE!', allowed the deaths of many innocents. real people.
"There were almost twice as many casualties in Southeast Asia (primarily Cambodia) the first two years after the fall of Saigon in 1975 then there were during the ten years the U.S. was involved in Vietnam. [1996 Information Please Almanac] "
Half the casualties in Cambodia were caused by the US invasion and bombing campaigns that killed well over half a million people and displaced a million more. The invasion and bombings caused the fall of the Sihanouk monarchy, then the Lon Nol regime that slaughtered hundreds of thousands more.
Three million were killed in Vietnam -mostly civilians and mostly killed by the Americans. I don't know where you get your numbers, but something tells me you pulled them out of your ass.
What is it about left wingers that they so often go so low class, so easily?
Anyway, re your general insult. I would like you to justify what the millions your Communist, lefty hero Mao murdered, or Stalin, and yes, Lenin. Do you really think it was a bad think to consider Communism a threat to the free world, after that system had caused more genocide in less time than any in history?
My heroes? That's not only a strawman and an ad hominem attack, it's also a lie, so go fuck yourself. While you're at it, remember that complaining about how I say things is no rebuttal to WHAT I said. But right-wingers are hostile to logic, so your use of the style over substance fallacy is inevitable.
No, the communist countries were no threat to the US or the "free world" (which back then included dictatorships like Spain, Taiwan, S. Korea and S. Vietnam) unless a full-scale war broke out.
"No, the communist countries were no threat to the US or the "free world" "
You need to think clearly about this. Take current day for example. Why is does N Korea helps Iran with weapons tech? (I know, money, but that's not my point) Or why is Russia so often in league with China and Iran, or why was Chavez one of the only leaders in the world to publicly support the Iranian "elections"? Communism still is a global threat, as is all oppression of individuals. Love is all.
It just occurred to me what it is about State-ists (those who believe rights come from the gov.) and their determined negative perspective on their own country. (ie. finding all and any faults and mostly ignoring the success')
America is built on individualism, and this inherently goes against the State. I know there's more to it, but this thought intrigued me & I wanted to share.
If you don't believe it, that's your problem. The overwhelming majority of casualties in Vietnam (civilian and military) were caused by US bombing and artillery being used indiscriminately. The NVA could NEVER match the firepower of the US during the war (and the VC sure as hell couldn't). In fact, they had less firepower than ARVN.
As far as "statism" is concerned, kindly take your little strawman, light it with a match and shove it right up your ass, you lying fucktard.
Look Jelperman, basically I suggest that it was immoral to pull out of Vietnam and let 2.5 million people be slaughtered. Sijnce you cannot disagree with the moral heart of this, you distort & say it is not true.
Face it, because of you, those people were murdered. Of course you need to lie. You could not possibly face yourself. Eg. Can you face what you've done to millions of Africans by banning DDT? You've killed millions upon millions & will never apologize. You cannot.
1) I wasn't even born yet, fucktard so no, I'm not responsible for the war any more than I'm responsible for the Spanish-American War. Jeez but you are one dumb twat.
2) Most of the deaths in SE Asia were the result of the US intervening in the first place.
3) DDT wasn't banned in Africa. It was banned in the US, Canada and Europe. Last time I checked these places weren't part of Africa.
2. I was referring to you as The *left*, because you kept referring to me as The *right* and not as an individual. You still are.
3. Communists slaughtered 2.5 million of their own people after we left, because they were upset that we had gone there previously to try and stop them from slaughtering their own people. p.s. I understand (emotionally) why you are lying to yourself.
I just realized you might not get my point #2, but if you ARE the Left, than you ARE responsible for the Left's failures.
Yet I am a person, loved by God as inexorably unique, and therefore responsible for *only* what I personally have done right or wrong. (eg. I don't owe blacks money for slavery)
I believe you are a person, too; but instead of calling you disgusting names I used a bit of irony to try and make this point. Do you understand, yet?
The comments on this video show clearly that Buckley has touched a raw nerve of ignorance. Watch the video Chomsky versus Buckley- where Buckley devastates Chomsky who is significantly more intelligent than Vidal.
The concern I have now is that most people are not capable of understanding these arguments logically, nor articulating any argument of substance.
Anyone reading replies to my comment above will see that so far no one has ventured a reasoned response to their disagreement. Buckley certainly did have a logical basis for his arguments. One key was the disinterested involvement in third world nations. This is a brilliant point.
That just proves you're (a) lying or (b) too stupid to read. Buckley's "argument" was to call someone a "queer" when they pointed out that he was a racist and a fascist -which he was.
Yes, he was saying that he understands the 'right to assembly' can supersede other's rights, or freedom, and that this needs to be considered as well.
This sounds reasonable. What did you hear that was made him Nazi-esque - as you share in a later comment here?
I take my comment back. Since I made it a month ago,I've learned quite a lot,and my statement is not accurate or valid."Crypto-Nazi"..where the phuck did I come up with THAT from?! Really stupid comment on my part.
Calling someone of Buckley's generation a crypto-Nazi was an outrageous insult. The fight against Hitler wasn't a video game or TV war for the vast majority of Americans, excluding Vidal.
See,that's a common misconception. Kissinger said it himself,and I'm paraphrasing,'that soldiers are merely pawns',he didn't care how many died on EITHER "side".War is M-O-N-E-Y/POWER
There is truly no greater intellectual retort than William F. Buckley's famous "Listen, you queer ... I'll sock you in the goddam face and you'll stay plastered."
What a fathead. Calm debate is a million times more redeeming than the blustery (albeit more entertaining) debates William F. Buckley was a fan of.
Oh, perhaps you are referring to Vidal's redeeming, though less conspicuous resolution, intellectually arrived at to call Buckley a Crypto-nazi? How redeeming-almost on par with your name-calling above (fathead). If your objection is redemption, you are still in need of a Messiah. I find Buckley's retort to not only be more inspired, but more honest. When, or perhaps I should ask 'can', you appreciate that your argument dissolves completely if one agrees with the validity of the insult?
The US govt allows for peaceful demonstrations. The US Govt was not at the time a kingship. Though with Obama in office that might change. So its not a good analogy. Its funny how you can agree with the revolution, which was a war against oppressive laws, taxation and for our liberty yet feel demonstrators who attack those liberty's are somehow justified.
It is obvious you have not read the history or even tried to be objective about why the Vietnamese people fought against the Chinese, French, Japanese and American invaders. You read like a typical neocon chauvinist. Save your tired rhetoric for your book burning Tea Party comrades please. Tricky Dick "I'm not a crook" Nixon is your hero no doubt.
Your statement is pretentious. Typical liberals, cant look at the facts so you resort to petty insults. Your history comes from the mouth of liberal professors who hate the US. Weaklings like you who would rather negotiate peace at any cost are what is destroying this country. Its obvious "I wont turn on the Christmas tree cause it uses to much electric" Carter is your hero.
Regarding Eisenhower supporting the French, he did for the sake of stability in that part of the world. However, he didnt send troops. Kennedy brought in advisors, Johnson brought in troops, Nixon got us out with honor by bombing the piss out of Soviet-Chinese backed Vietnam. What they all realized at the time was democracy is the only protector of liberty. Communism gives all power to the state and now look at Vietnam, a 3rd world trash heep and I know they'd all come to the US if they could.
None of you can justify the repugnant behavior of the war demonstrators who attack this country by hanging a Vietcong flag. Its like if someone who hung a Nazi or Southern rebel flag, you liberals would get all butt hurt and angry. Why is it that more than half the world wants to come to America and yet liberals can only talk bad about this country? Remember, it was Kennedy/ Johnson who got us into the Vietnam mess in the first place, both Democrat Liberals. It was Nixon who got us out.
Eisenhower got us into Viet Nam by inexplicably supporting French imperialism in the region, thinking he was fighting the commies. LBJ escalated, then realized his terrible mistake too late--Nixon presided over the biggest and bloodiest expansion of the war. Vidal's fascist references to Buckley's attack on the demonstrators is also a subtle reference to Buckley's hatred of CR demonstrations and his outspoken support of southern segregationists at the time.
Hanging a Nazi flag is an advocation of racial hatred, antisemitism and ideological suppression. Hanging a Vietcong flag is an advocation of pity towards a country wrongly invaded due to global politics at the least or a different economical system at most. Attack this country? Grow up.
Although any provocation towards the shooting of marines or the armed forces in general is pretty despicable.
Pity is YOUR interpretation given your liberal ideology. Given the ideology of the Vietcong and the conflict we were in it was an attack on liberty and the US. You can see hatred in the Nazi flag and not in the Vietcong flag? The Vietcong are an oppressive government much like all atheist communist governments all around the world. The Maoist revolution killed 60m people. So you would want that hateful and oppressive government to spread throughout the world? Go cry to your Obama alter.
Wrong and wrong. Fix your glasses and read my comment before you post such a fatuous one back. Went the US landed in Vietnam the peasants who make up most of the country didn't even know there was a war on. Yes oppressive governments are awful, and yes the spread of it is an abhorrent thing, but the way that war was carried out was an epic failure from the beginning, there are better ways then to play puppets with Soviets.
I find it hard to believe you're American. As I know it, liberty is about being able to voice your opinion. Don't assume I'm a liberal, and don't assume I voted for Obama. Generalisations are the first tell-tale sign you're out of the loop.
Your comment didnt even opine on how the war was fought. I agree, the way liberal Johnson went about getting us into Vietnam was totally wrong. Its obvious your a liberal, you dont see the conotation of an attack on America by hanging a forune flag? Especially with a nation we are at war with is obsurd. And your "pity" by hanging a Vietcong flag talk makes it very obvious whether you believe your a liberal or not. BTW, nobody here is stopping you from stating your opinion.
"Liberal" this and "Liberal" that. Throwing around epithets just make you politically challenged. What you think would happen now if someone hung an Afghan or Iraqi flag outside their house now? Jack shit - that's what. The big problem with the "treason" of the Viet flag is just purely for the fact it was a communist nation. Wow. Big woop. Way to fall into the game of global politics, cold war bullshit and McCarthyism. A little shit country that couldn't do fuck all to America. What an attack!
Havent seen any of those flags so obviously nobodies willing to try especially in my city. Were talking about a demonstration too, much more intense situation, so its a different context than someone putting it in front of there house. Remember, we were fighting China and the Sovet Union were supplying them too. If it was just Vietnam, yeah, sure we could blow them off like we blow off Venezuela. Shows how much you know liberal.
And it shows how much you don't know calling me liberal! Do I call you conservative now? Nope. Yes, a protest is more intense, not that that makes a difference, you have a right to, and trying to raise a flag was very provocative, but all the fuss is because it's communism, not an attack on this country. You played their game. Quit crying and grow a pair.
Well, I see no difference between what you call mere communism and an attack on this country. Communism has brought nothing but death from Lenon to Mao. But you know what, we would never succeed in Vietnam and thats because people have to want freedom and know what it is for themselves. We cannot liberate people who dont know what freedom is as they will just create a slave state for themselves. Everything is wrong with communism, its a hoax for poor people. I think thats where we disagree.
This video looked like foreplay between two homosexual men.
OaktownUSA 3 months ago
wtf does stay plastered mean? lol
24linkinparkfan88 5 months ago
Why does Buckley stick his finger in his ear? Did he actually learn this by himself or was he coached?
Magenta408 5 months ago
I guess it is true when Buckley said "Now listen, you God damned queer, stop calling me a crypto Nazi or I'll nail you in your god damn face and you'll stay plastered!" he did look very floppish.
zoperxplex 6 months ago
Can't believe the vitriol posted on this link. Shame on you all. We're watching and listening to two of the most articulate Americans of the 20th Century descending into the playground. . .to me, Gore Vidal is an American hero, Buckley not so much. . .
Rabidburt 8 months ago
Gore Vidal was and still is a steaming pile of slug feces. Socialist feces was very common in this country in the 60's and 70's I know because I lived through it. And now we are living with a president who is an embodiment of those declining hippy commie socialist days. I myself did not know how deep the crap had gotten until the mid 80's. At this late state of affairs I feel the youth are so mis-educated that recovery of what has been lost may sadly be unrecoverable.Buck should have punched him
vincentkjones1 9 months ago
@vincentkjones1 haha you joke
ken6346 7 months ago
Gore Vidal has a loose rectum from a lifetime of anal sex with large negro gentlemen.
Elmore3141 2 months ago
Vidal's grin when Buckley called him queer was priceless..
GSW12345 10 months ago
I've learned far more than your severely limited little pea brain will ever be capable of
comprehending.
iggypopbowie77 11 months ago
william buckley burns in hell now
muthemasphate 11 months ago
Buckley is badass!
Mrdavid839 11 months ago
Nazi or Gay, I'd rather be gay.
marydwyer14119 1 year ago
@marydwyer14119 vidal was queer buckley was not a nazi what kind of retarded statement is that?
tvicena 1 year ago
@tvicena I was making a blanket statement.
marydwyer14119 1 year ago
@marydwyer14119 Then you don't know what the Nazis were about. Homo.
TheWanderinSoul 11 months ago
@TheWanderinSoul Calm down angry man. Go put on your SS uniform and watch some Wings of the Luftwaffe. Are you gonna make some argument that the poor Nazi's were trying to do good things for the peoples of Europe? Please learn me all about the homophobic take on the real Nazi party.
marydwyer14119 11 months ago
@TheWanderinSoul Do your own research. Unlike YOU I don't just blindly accept an interested parties perspective without taking all the information into consideration. Even if that means having the patience to hear the all opposing sides. They were just radical solutions to valid problems. And the "homophobic" comment you are playing off of was based on YOUR comment, not Nazi values. In fact, they were't racist nor homophobic. Get your facts straight. Racist and homophobic motives are from jews.
TheWanderinSoul 11 months ago
@TheWanderinSoul: Your last statement reveals that it is YOU that is racist.
chinopisces 11 months ago
@chinopisces That's not racism, it's fact.
TheWanderinSoul 11 months ago
@TheWanderinSoul: In YOUR mind, perhaps. Such nonsense I cannot allow myself to fathom, especially one so foolish. Grow up.
chinopisces 11 months ago
@chinopisces HA! You can't fathom the TRUTH? Grow up? THAT'S your rebuttal? How illogical.
TheWanderinSoul 11 months ago
@TheWanderinSoul
What all you homophobic right -wing nazis need is a nice big huge cock down your throat to gag on ,and shut you up once and for all, ha ha! Eat shit & die!
iggypopbowie77 11 months ago
@iggypopbowie77 Wow, thanks for showin what a complete fuckin idiot you are. There was nothing homophobic in my comments you lame sack of shit. I am not a Nazi, "right wing", nor homophobic so there goes your point, if there was one. Nice try though, dipshit.
TheWanderinSoul 11 months ago
@TheWanderinSoul
You filthy pathetic despicable stupid fucking anti-semitic toilet-licking cunt.
iggypopbowie77 11 months ago
@iggypopbowie77 HAHAHA!!!! Is that your best attempt, you miserable fuckin troll? Why don't you try saying something intelligent for once instead of spewing garbage like a five year old?
TheWanderinSoul 11 months ago
@TheWanderinSoul
"why don't I try ..."?Precisely because that IS obviously your intellectual level.
iggypopbowie77 11 months ago
@iggypopbowie77 Again, intelligent comments only. Otherwise you just sound like an idiot.
TheWanderinSoul 11 months ago
@TheWanderinSoul
You sure do! As everybody knows.
iggypopbowie77 11 months ago
Buckley's such a fag. 'I'll sock you in the face and you'll stay plastered'... man up pussy
TerrorSquadLaxer 1 year ago
@TerrorSquadLaxer
You need to watch your stupid language,and suck this big one.
iggypopbowie77 11 months ago
@iggypopbowie77 Damn, you're not even a good troll. You suck at this. You prove nothing and just simply spew bullshit that doesn't support anything.
TheWanderinSoul 11 months ago
@TheWanderinSoul
No.You're the one that is sucking at it.You know you need it.Keep on sucking,you stupid shit.
iggypopbowie77 11 months ago
@iggypopbowie77 What's wrong with what terrsquadlaxer said? Buckley is a dumb little fucking bitch, just like you. You're obviously ignorant as hell.
TheWanderinSoul 11 months ago
@TheWanderinSoul
You stuck-up spoiled brats know nothing about people,life,the world.Go to school,and go home to your Mommy.
iggypopbowie77 11 months ago
@iggypopbowie77 HAHAHA!!!! You are such a foolish old man. One would think you might have learned something useful in your FORTY SIX YEARS on this Earth. You can't even come up with good rebuttals. I thought you were no older than sixteen by your comments. Damn, wish I was right, for your sake.
TheWanderinSoul 11 months ago
@spiromilhouse Yep. That's cos us Europeans are....better than you! Europe is where the history comes from.
sclark1984 1 year ago
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@sclark1984 "That's cos us Europeans are....better than you! Europe is where the history comes from."
And that makes you better how? What a childish statement.
TheWanderinSoul 11 months ago
At least we still have public, secular schools open to everyone. As imperfect as public schooling is, it is far better than the alternative -- relying on either highly conditional philanthropic intervention or the even worse prospect of churches and "faith based" orders getting another tax free freeride on the system to raise a bunch of empty headed, Christian Patriot Talibani. The last thing we need are the madrasses for the masses brand of schooling dismantlign public schools would create.
bertinotti 1 year ago
Listen to Gore Vidal's aristocratic accent - almost British! Is such a tone a historical inflection - a particular dramatization assumed by 'the serious intellectual' in public declamations of the time - of an accent that still persists but is no longer performed as such, or is it a bygone accent altogether, one that originated from some encalve of urbane Brahmans but is no longer spoken?
musicalidea 1 year ago
Our public schools WERE the crown jewel of Western democracies before self serving elites voted to tie school investment with local property taxes. Right wing demagogues love to advocate policies that choke the blood supply to the institutions they despise and then wonder why such institutions, handicapped as they are, do not meet performance expectations. But I would stack California's public university system (pre Prop 13) against any heavily subsidized private univeristy any day of the week.
bertinotti 1 year ago
buckley pulled the alpha card on vidal and PWND that ass
johnbourbon 1 year ago
@johnbourbon are you dumb or are you stupid
BeYourOwnSign 1 year ago
two latent homosexuals catfighting!
treon123456 1 year ago
@treon123456 Vidal was always out. Buckley, well, if he was gay it was a secret.
bc9021010001 1 year ago 7
@bc9021010001 IF? William Fuckwad Buckley has a lot of nerve calling Gore Vidal a queer on national tv. That is the policy of right wing thugs like him. good riddance. what a disgusting, smarmy, fag he was. Gore Vidal was right to label him a Nazi. He loves storm trooper tactics as he clearly proclaims and to call him out sent him on a personal attack. He was the most disgusting bully the right sent out.
john48martin 1 year ago
@john48martin I know of no proof or any serious suggestion that Buckley was gay, not even a tabloid blind item, & Buckley was a celebrity most of his life. I saw him debate in person & he was an imposing physical presence. Some think any articulate man is effeminate, and some think any effeminate man is gay; both assumptions are fallacious. I don't understand your use of the archaic pejorative "fag" in reference to Buckley as fascist.
Vidal never hid his sexual preference. Brave man.
bc9021010001 1 year ago
CLASSIC lol
ahbevegede 1 year ago
Interesting. Kind of reminiscent of how the 'racist slurs' at the tea parties were only heard by negro congressmen. Disgusting.
MrGrevy 1 year ago
@MrGrevy "negro congressmen"? haha what a sad joke you are, going nowhere or already at nowhere fast
unfortunatebeam 1 year ago
@unfortunatebeam Yes and I guess the United NEGRO College Fund is a racist organization?? lol uneducated idiot.
MrGrevy 1 year ago
Haha! I'm uneducated? Talk about psychological projection. Because "negro" appears in a title that was created decades ago doesn't mean it is therefore appropriate to use it outside that title now. the NAACP is another example using the word colored. No one who is living on the SURFACE of this planet uses terms like those anymore. The reason is because anytime anyone use those words now it's a safe bet they are probably backwards racist morons. Consider yourself exhibit A.
unfortunatebeam 1 year ago
@MrGrevy Do i have to explain for you what the term "means of production" means. In socialist litterature it is a term used when telling if the factories is owned by the workers or the capitalist.
If terms and things around seems to continue to be bizarr, the you should see the doctor.
runeguldberg 1 year ago
@runeguldberg Wrong.
MrGrevy 1 year ago
Grevy Marxist analysis of ownership of MoP within capitalism
The analysis of people's relationships with the means of production is one element that stands at the basis of Marxism Marx argued that, while in pre-capitalist societies it is clearly the labourer that uses the means of production to create product; in capitalism, whose nature as a mode of production is embodied in its drive to reproduce and increase capital, it is more realistic to say that the means of production uses the labourer.
runeguldberg 1 year ago
@runeguldberg So the laborers are now actually means of production for the bourgeousie?
MrGrevy 1 year ago
Communism is a failed ideology and Socialism is it's crippled ugly relative. Why anyone keeps on insisting to try and implement these unworkable and oppressive systems is beyond any reason.
davidavraham2008 2 years ago
@davidavraham2008Communism and socialism only fail when attempting to implement them on a wide scale as the dominant form of government/economy. Dozens of countries the world over have more or less successfully integrated certain individual ideas derived from them into their democratic societies and capitalist economies. It's where you get the term "social democracy".
unfortunatebeam 1 year ago
@davidavraham2008 its really just an existenial dilemma of modernity, because socialism involves moral judgment of everyone involved, and not many are ready for that commitment
purphanz 1 year ago
@davidavraham2008 sweeping commentary appreciated but truth more complicated stop
cp1492 1 year ago
@davidavraham2008.... go over to germany and see how crippled socialism is. they seem fine to me.
feeneythefiend 1 year ago
Please tell us the bright line divisions between "socialism" and the unfettered free market capitalist model that presumably you praise. Ready to work What tripe Sundays? Let school for the overwhelming majority being offered on a whim by benevolent organizations? Want to privatize police force? Anything remotely "socialist" about environmental regulation? Guess we should close the doors on the SEC while we are at it - let those unregulated secondary derivatives markets guide the capital markets
bertinotti 1 year ago
@bertinotti You have no idea why America got rich, do you? It wasn't through regulation. Don't talk to me about working hard. I work 70 hours a week. I work with hands and my head. Go regulate yourself and wise up.
CARDUELIS999 1 year ago
@bertinotti so our public "schools" perpetually fail when measured against the rest of the western world. despite our amazing public police force, we have more crime than anyone else and al gore has single handedly fucked the so called enviro movement into irrelevance.
kindly tell me again how awesome liberal american socialism is.
johnbourbon 1 year ago
Ithaca, West Hartford, Burlington, Milton, River Oaks, Marin, and on and on and on provide examples of stunning public schools that are progressive and highly functioning. You'll note that they do it without sponsorship by a fantastically wealthy, philanthropic elite (as was the case prior to modern public schooling); you'll note that to learn physics in these chools you don't have to fake believing in a fairy tale like the baby Jesus (as is the case in, say, a Church sponsored system).
bertinotti 1 year ago
@davidavraham2008 Well said Sir
makersmark90 1 year ago
@davidavraham2008 What about the oppressive natures of capitalism, as well as the obvious social exclusion. There is no political system which works, so let's not choose one or two to disagree with, to further your invalid point.
big3t 1 year ago
Wow, and these guys are "heroes" to conservatives and liberals?
They just spew out the same ad hominem crap as Fox and MSNBC, except with more snobby personalities.
These people aren't "intellectuals." They're just children with bigger words.
keyboardplaya 2 years ago
it is btter to be of one amongst the many than to take refuge in the anonymity of safety in mumbers. The man at the head of the mob is usually a conservative with violence and bigotry in his mind and hatred in his heart.
Axl207 2 years ago
ah lol my last name is Buckley ^^
BadAssUSMC 2 years ago
Buckley was a thug.
njl 2 years ago
These videos always remind me that, in 40 years, the American Left has changed not a bit.
While Buckley decries egging on people to murder American Marines, Vidal's sole reply is that he is a "Nazi" and then gets pissy when this angers Buckley enough that he calls him a queer.
In short, as this video demonstrates, the American Left has never given a damn when we in the military die, they call everyone who disagrees with them a Nazi, and they're too childish to do naught but when retorted to.
17thknight 2 years ago
yeah you just don't listen to what Vidal says:
Vietnamese have the right to organize their own country.
WTF are the american marines doing in foreign country?
you americans are so brainwashed you never ask yourselves for eg: wtf are we doing in Iraq, Afganistan etc around the world.
mitkopi4a 2 years ago
I don't know how stupid one could be to believe in "spreading democracy" and other bs, of which the most ridiculous stupid explanation I've ever heard is "if we don't go there, they'll come here" you must be extremely stupid to believe that poor half naked , hungry people can afford doing anything of the kind
mitkopi4a 2 years ago
No one believes that they will "come here" i've no idea where you could even conceive of such an argument. At the time, the theory was, and has proven correct, that Communism could spread throughout southeast Asia, thus lending political and strategic power to the USSR. It was wholly a correct view, as history has shown.
What was mistaken in Vietnam wasn't the theory of the spread of communism and countering it, it was in not realizing this was not what was occurring in Nam, as it had in Korea
17thknight 2 years ago
it is again bs - watch the interview with James Douglass - USSR had no influence whatsoever in Vietnam.
And what is it that scares you so much about the "communism" anyways?
My point is still valid though don't want vietkong/arabs etc to shoot at US marines - keep them home.
mitkopi4a 2 years ago
That's exactly what I said, the Vietnamese were believed to be influenced by the USSR as Korea was, this was simply not understood to be a different conflict at the time.
And are you kidding? What's "scary" about communism? Go visit the USSR circa 1969. Visit North Korea right now. Go to China and try to Google "Tienamen Square" and see what happens to you.
And when you root for the soldiers of your own country to be brutally killed, you are an evil traitor, and deserve the fate of traitors.
17thknight 2 years ago
"were believed" but incorrectly, but it doesn't matter
the question stays - why interfere?
your soldiers were killed because they invaded foreign country period.
I'll tell you about communism - I'm not kidding - I was born and raised in "communistic" country and trust me it has its advantages.
it was no worse than the USA today.
I'm limited by the character count to elaborate on that, but I had a happy childhood trust me and I seriously doubt my kids will be that happy and safe in America
mitkopi4a 2 years ago
Lmfao!! Yeah, it's a happy fun time until you try to tell the government that you disapprove of something it does and suddenly you find yourself in a prison cell.
But who needs, freedom, right? SO overblown, that idea of personal freedom and personal privacy. So horrid. MUCH prefer the "advantages" of a country where summary executions are the norm.
You should read the writings of the Founding Fathers of America, it might Enlighten your ignorant mind.
17thknight 2 years ago
Clearly you know better than me what I've experienced first hand. And you know better than me what I have read. It's a tragic irony that the country which stood for so long as the beacon of freedom is presently inhabited with "enlighten" individuals like yourself, who are are so arrogant in their self confidence and would not respect different points of view...
mitkopi4a 2 years ago
its way too long to explain to you that N.Korea has nothing to do with what we had in East Europe.Furthermore the freedoms you think you have in the USA? are you kiddin me you really think you live in a free country? any parallels with US government actions will be too elusive for your intelligence
mitkopi4a 2 years ago
You know I just remembered one interview with the famous russian director(whom I'm sure you've never heard of) Nikita Mikhalkov while making "The Barber of Siberia", he litterally said: "while showing the scenario in the USA, I happened to realize that our old time Soviet censors, were little kids in comparison with their american counterpart, for e.g. they told me "you can not make a movie showing an american sergeant,who never heard about Mozart""
mitkopi4a 2 years ago
You are confusing Communism with Dictatorship. While most examples of communism today take place in Orwellian hell holes, that is not by definition what communism is.
Rereversed 2 years ago
@Rereversed Incorrect. You're confusing communism in "theory" vs. communism in "practice". The theory is inherently flawed in every way as it is impossible in any human society. It completely fails to take into account human nature. It's akin to making up a society based on Never Never Land.
Communism in PRACTICE is a dictatorship. Invariably. Always.
Define insanity: Try something a thousand times, always with the same result, and then attempt it again and imagine the result will change
17thknight 2 years ago
Communism and Socialism are economic systems like Capitalism, whereas dictatorships and democracies are political systems.
The fact that Communism and Socialism seem to be tied to dictatorship has more to do with the traditional means of Communism's implementation, namely the violent overthrow of the existing government by armed rebels.
If democratically introduced, Communist and Socialist policies do not create dictatorships, as Finland, Norway, and Sweden can attest to.
Rereversed 2 years ago
Means of production is owned by the few rich in finland, norway and Sweden.
runeguldberg 2 years ago
@runeguldberg Wow that was certainly a stupid, nonsensical comment. Bizarre.
MrGrevy 1 year ago
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@MrGrevy Rereversed sasid:
.. democratically introduced, Communist and Socialist policies do not create dictatorships, as Finland, Norway, and Sweden can attest to.
My reply:
..Means of production is owned by the few rich in finland, norway and Sweden.
---please reply if further help is needed.
runeguldberg 1 year ago
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@MrGrevy (((Means of production is owned by the few rich in finland, norway and Sweden.))) ok That was my reply to Rereversed comment: (((If democratically introduced, Communist and Socialist policies do not create dictatorships, as Finland, Norway, and Sweden can attest to.)))
OK. I can explain further. Rereversed comment is wrong. Finland, Norway and Sweden does not have Communist or Socialist policies. We got a socialdemocratic system. Most ownership is private.
runeguldberg 1 year ago
@Rereversed Sounds like someone just took their first 100 level college class. lol uneducated loser.
MrGrevy 1 year ago
@MrGrevy Good riposte bro
Rereversed 1 year ago
@Rereversed No I only posted it once I didn't riposte it.
MrGrevy 1 year ago
@MrGrevy is it a riposte now?
Rereversed 1 year ago
@17thknight - How about the Paris Commune? The problem, as has been said, lies not in the economics of it, but in the political 'solutions' that are proposed to implement it, such as stalinism and maoism.
piejesus1991 2 years ago
@piejesus1991 I agree, but that's the point. It is utterly impossible implement communism on any large scale, especially in a government.
Sine the Neolithic, every form of government has, invariably, required some form of bureaucracy or leadership. The very existence of such an institution already causes dysfunction in the "equality" of communism. It simply cannot function on large/governmental scales.
17thknight 2 years ago
you could say that but like there are hippy communes up here that do fairly well
the bruderhof colonies are communist. the hutterite colonies are (if i remember correctly) communist. they aren't hellholes, they just dress funny.
hebesphenomegacorona 2 years ago
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lokomeng 1 year ago
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@17thknight
Practice makes perfect. The people who push for communism and socialism are bound to get it right one day...
lokomeng 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@17thknight
Practice makes perfect. The people who push for communism and socialism are bound to get it right one day...
lokomeng 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@17thknight
Practice makes perfect. The people who push for communism and socialism are bound to get it right one day...
lokomeng 1 year ago
USSR had no influence in Vietnam? How did they get their hands on MIG 21s without Soviet influence? And don't you realize the Vietnam war was about stopping/slowing down communist expansionism going on in the world at that time? After Korean War, the PKK event in Indonesia, Cambodia, Laos, there was a need to stop the onslaught the way the West didn't do in Eastern Europe. Africa, South America, Communism were running rampant. The cold war was a war of ideology
cant4get 2 years ago
But the poor half naked hungry people were flying MIG 17s and MIG 21s. Guess they were weak and feeble after all.
cant4get 2 years ago
VC =\= NVA bro
Mazdak1 2 years ago
HA HA Gore outlives Buckley! Vidal rules!
Grokstar35 2 years ago
Americans misguided nationalism is being and will be used to tyrranize the people. The people are to have some say in their gov't - at least that was the point of the Declaration of Independence and Constitution - yet the US gov't repeatedly takes actions that 98% of its collateral are against. We have already lost our gov't, but we may be able to keep our country. The Democrats & Republicans are the enemy. Be a Conservative/Liberal: work hard & help EVERYBODY, just like Jesus says. No killing!
xerosisonek 2 years ago
If we leave the dialectic of our respective ideologies (many of which were concocted by the paid scribes of the oligarchy) then we will see that the hidden masters have rendered the poor destitute & impoverished the middle class using Republican neoconservatism and now they are preparing to liberate the well-off & rich of their money under the guise of financing state sponsored eugenics under the guise of old/new national socialism led by Obama & Rahm Emanuel. Look for young goosesteppers next.
xerosisonek 2 years ago
não bastava não ter legenda o inútil coloca o pouco do conteúdo existente na descrissão, em ingçlês.
oilusionistaxd 2 years ago
I wonder if Gore Vidal admitted he was wrong about the "Viet Cong has a right to set up their own form of government" statement, after millions were slaughtered and force starved after the US left?
I don't think so. The left never has to say sorry, because their identity rests in the moment of intentions, and feelings, and not real individualistic identity.
The larger the State grows, the smaller the individual becomes.
itreeye 2 years ago
The Viet Cong didn't organize any government. They were wiped out in 1968. The NVA did, but they didn't starve or slaughter millions.
Jelperman 2 years ago
Jelperman:
I quote:
"The domino theory was accurate. The ASEAN (Association of Southeast Asian Nations) countries, Philippines, Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore and Thailand stayed free of Communism because of the U.S. commitment to Vietnam. The Indonesians threw the Soviets out in 1966 because of America's commitment in Vietnam. Without that commitment, Communism would have swept all the way to the Malacca Straits that is south of Singapore and of great strategic importance to the free world."
itreeye 2 years ago
Jelperman:
"...they didn't starve or slaughter millions."
Our leaving, for 'PEACE!', allowed the deaths of many innocents. real people.
"There were almost twice as many casualties in Southeast Asia (primarily Cambodia) the first two years after the fall of Saigon in 1975 then there were during the ten years the U.S. was involved in Vietnam. [1996 Information Please Almanac] "
itreeye 2 years ago
Half the casualties in Cambodia were caused by the US invasion and bombing campaigns that killed well over half a million people and displaced a million more. The invasion and bombings caused the fall of the Sihanouk monarchy, then the Lon Nol regime that slaughtered hundreds of thousands more.
Three million were killed in Vietnam -mostly civilians and mostly killed by the Americans. I don't know where you get your numbers, but something tells me you pulled them out of your ass.
Jelperman 2 years ago
Jelperman:
"...you pulled them out of your ass."
What is it about left wingers that they so often go so low class, so easily?
Anyway, re your general insult. I would like you to justify what the millions your Communist, lefty hero Mao murdered, or Stalin, and yes, Lenin. Do you really think it was a bad think to consider Communism a threat to the free world, after that system had caused more genocide in less time than any in history?
itreeye 2 years ago
My heroes? That's not only a strawman and an ad hominem attack, it's also a lie, so go fuck yourself. While you're at it, remember that complaining about how I say things is no rebuttal to WHAT I said. But right-wingers are hostile to logic, so your use of the style over substance fallacy is inevitable.
No, the communist countries were no threat to the US or the "free world" (which back then included dictatorships like Spain, Taiwan, S. Korea and S. Vietnam) unless a full-scale war broke out.
Jelperman 2 years ago
Jelperman:
"No, the communist countries were no threat to the US or the "free world" "
You need to think clearly about this. Take current day for example. Why is does N Korea helps Iran with weapons tech? (I know, money, but that's not my point) Or why is Russia so often in league with China and Iran, or why was Chavez one of the only leaders in the world to publicly support the Iranian "elections"? Communism still is a global threat, as is all oppression of individuals. Love is all.
itreeye 2 years ago
Jelperman:
"..mostly killed by the Americans..."
Sorry, I don't believe this.
P.S.
It just occurred to me what it is about State-ists (those who believe rights come from the gov.) and their determined negative perspective on their own country. (ie. finding all and any faults and mostly ignoring the success')
America is built on individualism, and this inherently goes against the State. I know there's more to it, but this thought intrigued me & I wanted to share.
itreeye 2 years ago
If you don't believe it, that's your problem. The overwhelming majority of casualties in Vietnam (civilian and military) were caused by US bombing and artillery being used indiscriminately. The NVA could NEVER match the firepower of the US during the war (and the VC sure as hell couldn't). In fact, they had less firepower than ARVN.
As far as "statism" is concerned, kindly take your little strawman, light it with a match and shove it right up your ass, you lying fucktard.
Jelperman 2 years ago
Jelperman:
"...shove it right up your ass, you lying fucktard."
lol now you sound angry and low-class. :) Anyway, think on this:
The larger the State, the smaller the citizen.
See if you can get your head around that one brother.
p.s.
I know I know, you're going to write back (or think) that I am not your Brother. Case in point.
itreeye 2 years ago
Look Jelperman, basically I suggest that it was immoral to pull out of Vietnam and let 2.5 million people be slaughtered. Sijnce you cannot disagree with the moral heart of this, you distort & say it is not true.
Face it, because of you, those people were murdered. Of course you need to lie. You could not possibly face yourself. Eg. Can you face what you've done to millions of Africans by banning DDT? You've killed millions upon millions & will never apologize. You cannot.
itreeye 2 years ago
1) I wasn't even born yet, fucktard so no, I'm not responsible for the war any more than I'm responsible for the Spanish-American War. Jeez but you are one dumb twat.
2) Most of the deaths in SE Asia were the result of the US intervening in the first place.
3) DDT wasn't banned in Africa. It was banned in the US, Canada and Europe. Last time I checked these places weren't part of Africa.
Jelperman 2 years ago
Jelperman:
1. Please stop calling me ugly names.
2. I was referring to you as The *left*, because you kept referring to me as The *right* and not as an individual. You still are.
3. Communists slaughtered 2.5 million of their own people after we left, because they were upset that we had gone there previously to try and stop them from slaughtering their own people. p.s. I understand (emotionally) why you are lying to yourself.
4. Where do you think Africa got their DDT from?
itreeye 2 years ago
Jelperman:
I just realized you might not get my point #2, but if you ARE the Left, than you ARE responsible for the Left's failures.
Yet I am a person, loved by God as inexorably unique, and therefore responsible for *only* what I personally have done right or wrong. (eg. I don't owe blacks money for slavery)
I believe you are a person, too; but instead of calling you disgusting names I used a bit of irony to try and make this point. Do you understand, yet?
itreeye 2 years ago
The comments on this video show clearly that Buckley has touched a raw nerve of ignorance. Watch the video Chomsky versus Buckley- where Buckley devastates Chomsky who is significantly more intelligent than Vidal.
The concern I have now is that most people are not capable of understanding these arguments logically, nor articulating any argument of substance.
beast543210 2 years ago
how often does buckley let chomsky speak during that interview? not very much, chomsky barely gets a sentence in.
theREALshafan 2 years ago
Buckley is the one who got owned.
Jelperman 2 years ago
Buckley is completely torn apart by Chomsky in the debate. Buckley just makes shit up and can't think his way out of his own positions.
DanMorgan98 2 years ago
Anyone reading replies to my comment above will see that so far no one has ventured a reasoned response to their disagreement. Buckley certainly did have a logical basis for his arguments. One key was the disinterested involvement in third world nations. This is a brilliant point.
phdddude21 2 years ago
That just proves you're (a) lying or (b) too stupid to read. Buckley's "argument" was to call someone a "queer" when they pointed out that he was a racist and a fascist -which he was.
Jelperman 2 years ago
The Vietnam war was about the tungsten mine outside Hanoi.
AlexTrebucq 2 years ago
Gore Vidal is a third rate writer, and not even an American.
AlexTrebucq 2 years ago
not an American....ok...tnat's a ojay. Right?
tmgore64 2 years ago
He's a New Yorker and that ain't American
AlexTrebucq 2 years ago
Since he owned Buckley in these debates, what does that make Buckley? Fourth rate?
By the way, Vidal served served in the US Army in WW2 in the Aleutian Campaign, while Buckley sat home behind a desk.
Jelperman 2 years ago
They are both jackasses. I know. Unsophisticated. But I believe it's true lol
CaptainBlaine 2 years ago
I disagree. I think Vidal got his point across VERY well,and if you want to talk about jackasses,did you even HEAR what Buckley was saying??!?
FREEW0RLD2012 2 years ago
FREEW0RLD2012:
"...did you even HEAR what Buckley was saying?"
Yes, he was saying that he understands the 'right to assembly' can supersede other's rights, or freedom, and that this needs to be considered as well.
This sounds reasonable. What did you hear that was made him Nazi-esque - as you share in a later comment here?
itreeye 2 years ago
I take my comment back. Since I made it a month ago,I've learned quite a lot,and my statement is not accurate or valid."Crypto-Nazi"..where the phuck did I come up with THAT from?! Really stupid comment on my part.
FREEW0RLD2012 2 years ago
Calling someone of Buckley's generation a crypto-Nazi was an outrageous insult. The fight against Hitler wasn't a video game or TV war for the vast majority of Americans, excluding Vidal.
JoeH0325 2 years ago 2
I'm pretty sure that Mr. Vidal was very sincere in calling Buckley a crypto-Nazi - and Mr. Vidal was right.
BlacknWhitesAlright 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
William F.Buckley is (was) a crypto-Nazi. The US is Crypto-Nazi. Ever hear of "Operation Paperclip"?
FREEW0RLD2012 2 years ago
This debate should be shown in classrooms !!
420gma 2 years ago
Vietnam,
...the ultimate US "clusterfuck"
GFY19545 2 years ago
See,that's a common misconception. Kissinger said it himself,and I'm paraphrasing,'that soldiers are merely pawns',he didn't care how many died on EITHER "side".War is M-O-N-E-Y/POWER
FREEW0RLD2012 2 years ago
There is truly no greater intellectual retort than William F. Buckley's famous "Listen, you queer ... I'll sock you in the goddam face and you'll stay plastered."
What a fathead. Calm debate is a million times more redeeming than the blustery (albeit more entertaining) debates William F. Buckley was a fan of.
EliasHoweNash 2 years ago
Oh, perhaps you are referring to Vidal's redeeming, though less conspicuous resolution, intellectually arrived at to call Buckley a Crypto-nazi? How redeeming-almost on par with your name-calling above (fathead). If your objection is redemption, you are still in need of a Messiah. I find Buckley's retort to not only be more inspired, but more honest. When, or perhaps I should ask 'can', you appreciate that your argument dissolves completely if one agrees with the validity of the insult?
craig557 2 years ago
GORE VIDAL IS AMAZING
Dawnzeel 2 years ago
yes a true American icon !!!
420gma 2 years ago
Dittoheads are a complete waste of time and energy.
jammin1055 2 years ago
amen!
rowdy816 2 years ago
The behavior of anti-Vietnam war demonstrators can be justified as I can justify the revolutionary war against the British and crazy King George.
jammin1055 2 years ago 2
The US govt allows for peaceful demonstrations. The US Govt was not at the time a kingship. Though with Obama in office that might change. So its not a good analogy. Its funny how you can agree with the revolution, which was a war against oppressive laws, taxation and for our liberty yet feel demonstrators who attack those liberty's are somehow justified.
ihatefrys 2 years ago
It is obvious you have not read the history or even tried to be objective about why the Vietnamese people fought against the Chinese, French, Japanese and American invaders. You read like a typical neocon chauvinist. Save your tired rhetoric for your book burning Tea Party comrades please. Tricky Dick "I'm not a crook" Nixon is your hero no doubt.
jammin1055 2 years ago
Your statement is pretentious. Typical liberals, cant look at the facts so you resort to petty insults. Your history comes from the mouth of liberal professors who hate the US. Weaklings like you who would rather negotiate peace at any cost are what is destroying this country. Its obvious "I wont turn on the Christmas tree cause it uses to much electric" Carter is your hero.
ihatefrys 2 years ago
Regarding Eisenhower supporting the French, he did for the sake of stability in that part of the world. However, he didnt send troops. Kennedy brought in advisors, Johnson brought in troops, Nixon got us out with honor by bombing the piss out of Soviet-Chinese backed Vietnam. What they all realized at the time was democracy is the only protector of liberty. Communism gives all power to the state and now look at Vietnam, a 3rd world trash heep and I know they'd all come to the US if they could.
ihatefrys 2 years ago
None of you can justify the repugnant behavior of the war demonstrators who attack this country by hanging a Vietcong flag. Its like if someone who hung a Nazi or Southern rebel flag, you liberals would get all butt hurt and angry. Why is it that more than half the world wants to come to America and yet liberals can only talk bad about this country? Remember, it was Kennedy/ Johnson who got us into the Vietnam mess in the first place, both Democrat Liberals. It was Nixon who got us out.
ihatefrys 2 years ago
Eisenhower got us into Viet Nam by inexplicably supporting French imperialism in the region, thinking he was fighting the commies. LBJ escalated, then realized his terrible mistake too late--Nixon presided over the biggest and bloodiest expansion of the war. Vidal's fascist references to Buckley's attack on the demonstrators is also a subtle reference to Buckley's hatred of CR demonstrations and his outspoken support of southern segregationists at the time.
jimfocus69 2 years ago 3
Hanging a Nazi flag is an advocation of racial hatred, antisemitism and ideological suppression. Hanging a Vietcong flag is an advocation of pity towards a country wrongly invaded due to global politics at the least or a different economical system at most. Attack this country? Grow up.
Although any provocation towards the shooting of marines or the armed forces in general is pretty despicable.
wackid89 2 years ago
Pity is YOUR interpretation given your liberal ideology. Given the ideology of the Vietcong and the conflict we were in it was an attack on liberty and the US. You can see hatred in the Nazi flag and not in the Vietcong flag? The Vietcong are an oppressive government much like all atheist communist governments all around the world. The Maoist revolution killed 60m people. So you would want that hateful and oppressive government to spread throughout the world? Go cry to your Obama alter.
ihatefrys 2 years ago
Wrong and wrong. Fix your glasses and read my comment before you post such a fatuous one back. Went the US landed in Vietnam the peasants who make up most of the country didn't even know there was a war on. Yes oppressive governments are awful, and yes the spread of it is an abhorrent thing, but the way that war was carried out was an epic failure from the beginning, there are better ways then to play puppets with Soviets.
wackid89 2 years ago
I find it hard to believe you're American. As I know it, liberty is about being able to voice your opinion. Don't assume I'm a liberal, and don't assume I voted for Obama. Generalisations are the first tell-tale sign you're out of the loop.
wackid89 2 years ago
Your comment didnt even opine on how the war was fought. I agree, the way liberal Johnson went about getting us into Vietnam was totally wrong. Its obvious your a liberal, you dont see the conotation of an attack on America by hanging a forune flag? Especially with a nation we are at war with is obsurd. And your "pity" by hanging a Vietcong flag talk makes it very obvious whether you believe your a liberal or not. BTW, nobody here is stopping you from stating your opinion.
ihatefrys 2 years ago
"Liberal" this and "Liberal" that. Throwing around epithets just make you politically challenged. What you think would happen now if someone hung an Afghan or Iraqi flag outside their house now? Jack shit - that's what. The big problem with the "treason" of the Viet flag is just purely for the fact it was a communist nation. Wow. Big woop. Way to fall into the game of global politics, cold war bullshit and McCarthyism. A little shit country that couldn't do fuck all to America. What an attack!
wackid89 2 years ago
Havent seen any of those flags so obviously nobodies willing to try especially in my city. Were talking about a demonstration too, much more intense situation, so its a different context than someone putting it in front of there house. Remember, we were fighting China and the Sovet Union were supplying them too. If it was just Vietnam, yeah, sure we could blow them off like we blow off Venezuela. Shows how much you know liberal.
ihatefrys 2 years ago
And it shows how much you don't know calling me liberal! Do I call you conservative now? Nope. Yes, a protest is more intense, not that that makes a difference, you have a right to, and trying to raise a flag was very provocative, but all the fuss is because it's communism, not an attack on this country. You played their game. Quit crying and grow a pair.
wackid89 2 years ago
Well, I see no difference between what you call mere communism and an attack on this country. Communism has brought nothing but death from Lenon to Mao. But you know what, we would never succeed in Vietnam and thats because people have to want freedom and know what it is for themselves. We cannot liberate people who dont know what freedom is as they will just create a slave state for themselves. Everything is wrong with communism, its a hoax for poor people. I think thats where we disagree.
ihatefrys 2 years ago
You need to watch Why We Fight ... its commentary by one of the people who actually made that war happen.
EMPERORMIKI 2 years ago