@WIDOWDUDE1 I don't think that enough people who like or listen to Lewis Black would be the sort who are much inclined to argue about the existence of God to begin with.
But there IS an awful big discussion about Health Care, interestingly enough.
So when folks like yourself show up to Republican debates and chant "Let them die," when a question about uninsured sick people comes up, not only is it totally lacking in empathy and fundamental decency, it also displays a profound ignorance about the realities of the private insurance system.
@EuchridEucrow1 You've never lived under a socialized healthcare system, have you? Until you do, come talk to me about the bullshit you're shoveling.
Been there done that, I've lived under both systems and while the US one may not be perfect, it's far superior to the liberal/socialized garbage you want so desperately.
I've lived in Canada all my life, bucko. I'm thankful for the health care we have in my country because had I been born in the United States, what with my parent's lack of financial resources and the various health problems I had as a child, I probably wouldn't be alive today.
I'm grateful that in Canada, cancer survival rates aren't completely dependent on socio-economic realities. I'm also grateful that we enjoy a longer lifespan than Americans.
@EuchridEucrow1 I was raised in Canada and moved at the age of 25. Like you, I didn't see what was wrong with it and thought the US system was bad also, until I actually lived here. And to repeat, the US system is far superior; I've been here 10 years now.
The cancer survival rate is higher in the US. Fact.
The treatment here is MUCH quicker and available to everyone. They cannot deny treatment.
We don't experience the phenomenon of job lock in the country and fighting critical illness isn't a matter of bankruptcy for Canadians. Oh and we don't have to worry about being denied treatment based on the whims of a private insurer.
Yes sir, I'll stick with my socialized medicine. Because at least it isn't a death sentence for people below a certain income level.
@EuchridEucrow1 Absolutely false. You cannot deny treatment. Yes, you will get billed, but yes you will get treated. Quit spreading falsehoods, it doesn't advance the debate.
The key to fixing the US system is to hammer down on frivolous law suits, thus driving up the costs of treatment and drugs, not revamping it with an inferior socialized system that drains the citizen. There is no such thing as 'free' healthcare, only inferior healthcare that everyone pays for, one way or another.
Yeah, that's how you fix healthcare. You start by removing the individual's right to any recourse under the law in the event of malpractice. Does this shit make sense in your head before you write it down?
And you continue to ignore the glaring facts. How exactly does an inferior health care system correlate to better cancer survival rates and longer life spans in the general population? Is it a better system for the affluent? Yes, absolutely.
@EuchridEucrow1 “I wouldn’t like to see Americans make the same mistake Canadians have made… Patients in Canada are treated like Third World citizens. Our health-care system is like Cuba or North Korea.”
- Lindsay McCreith (Brain tumor patient, Canada)
“This country would be nowhere without its elderly population. We have always worked and paid our taxes. It seems most unfair that we’ve got nothing at the end of it.”
@EuchridEucrow1 And you think there's recourse when something goes wrong, against the GOVERNMENT? lol....I think you need to take your own advice above friend, and think first.
The facts show, that the cancer survival rate is higher among US citizens than Canadians. You can scream and kick all you like. Admitting you are wrong is more noble than a temper tantrum.
I think you need to exercise a little more skepticism when it comes to private insurers. If they can deny a claim, they will. It usually works because who has the resources for a court battle with one of these behemoths?
And yes, if you show up in an ER, as of right now they have to treat you. That's fine for things like a heart attack, but what about cancer where you need regular doses of chemotherapy? "Let them die," right?
A pathological lack of empathy is an mental illness
@EuchridEucrow1 I didn't say they won't deny a claim; I said that you still get treatment, which is true. And I already told you the solution several posts back. It's putting a stop to the ambulance chasing. Across the globe, citizens of nations with government-run health care systems experience long wait times, a lack of access to certain treatments and, in some instances, a diminished quality of medical care.
1) insurance companies often fight claims tooth and nail, with billions in financial resources. A three year legal battle is nothing to them. Three years with untreated cancer? Bad news.
2) there's a ridiculous myth out there, perpetuated by assholes like yourself, that insurance companies accept anyone willing to pay. If you've ever had a serious illness in your life, you aren't getting covered. Period. These people aren't lazy, just unlucky.
@bdlenz1173 Right, except that an advanced surgery can cost in houndreds of thousands of dollars... So who do you think pays if you just been insured for a year and need one?
food before. ive worked in mines. ive logged. ive earned my damn way. and granted i understand people sometimes hit a rough spot, but, are you kidding me???!!! sitting on a courner with a sign begging for money or asking for the rest of the country to pay for your medical bills is plain lazy!
i dont need to help anyone but my family and my friends. its not wrong to think that way! why the hell should i go out of my way to help a complete stranger who doesnt give a damn what happens to me. there are always jobs available. just because its not the job you want doesnt mean its not a JOB. these people need to quit trying to ride the damn system and earn their way like the rest of us. dont tell me i dont know what im talking about because ive slept on park benches before and gone without
not to sound selfish but im not going to pay for someone elses healthcare. my family and friends are my only concern and if i dont know you, then i dont give a rats ass about you. you dont care if i come home in a box or on my feet so why should i. its nothing personel i just dont care.
@parkj238 i know im still young, this is just from what i see and read, so, with that said please tell me how that works. if i have private insurance then im the only person that is covered by that plan. if someone else who i dont even know gets sick/hurt, then my insurance isnt going to help them and im not paying there premium so how am i paying for someone elses insurance?? very interested in the debate but like i said young just saying what i feel from my point of view
@bdlenz1173 The concept of insurance, is from the private sector. The insurance company collects from as many people as possible to help pay for stuff. Your monthly premiums doesn't correlate to the cost of your care. We are all paying for each other. Depending on the case, your money can go pay for someone else's healthcare bills, and you will pay into it with the hope that if you get really sick, the insurance company will be there to pay for your high cost bills.
@bdlenz1173 It's the idea that we as americans help the sick, and poor. There are people out there that don't have any money, and they will die without help. We are all in this world together, and we need to help our kind.
So in every first world country except for the US the people mostly love their healthcare system. I never EVER heard anyone complain about our healthcare.
Now people in the US DO complain about it and on top of that don't want to change it. I don't get it.
he is the one of the very few jews that is alright.. compare to the other greedy fucking masses.. after the holocust, many lost their sense of morals and faith and all the fucking thing that stands for as a human being, but this man prevails...
Lewis Black is full of shit. Don't blame capitalism (free markets) for why heatlhcare is so shitty in the U.S. the U.S. hasnt had REAL capitalism for over a century. Today, we have CORPORATISM (also known as Facsism): this is when gov't and corporations work together to squelch competition and do sinister things. REAL free markets would only encourage low prices, better quality medicine, more efficient R&D, etc. Look at gov't run medicare and medicaid: goin backrupt. and u want universal care?
It's funny how a discussion of healthcare can sometimes bring out such angry comments. As a Canadian, I am fortunate to not have this worry - I just couldn't imagine living like that. The only thing I have to pay is my employer extended benefits, $70/mo for a family of five and that covers everything!
Health Care has to be a profit making institution. Why? Who the hell wants to go to college for 12 years, pay a shit load of money, and then make the same amount of money that they could have made being a plumber?
@Anubis4815162342 i like your point but you can make a pretty good living being a plumber. better than most professions. you do have to go to school to get a plumbing license. the license isn't required to be a plumber but it does help.
A question for atheists. In a world where there's no proof of God's existence or of life after death; how do you explain to your children why you brought them into the world and why they should die?
The NHS is good because everyone pays for everyone else, so -unlike America- people are not dieing horrible deaths because they can't afford it. In places like America you have to pay for just about everything to do with health, from flu jabs to the painkillers in birth and cancer treatments. That is sick. Paying for your own life is immoral and disgusting.
HEY EVERYONE READ THIS COMMENT AND STOP FUCKING BITCHING ABOUT AMERICA AND SHIT. NO ONE CARES, FIGHTING ON THE INTERNET IS LIKE BEING IN THE SPECIAL OLYMPICS, EVEN IF YOU WIN, YOUR STILL MENTALLY RETARDED. SO EVERYONE SHUT THE FUCK UP AND JUST LAUGH AT THE GREAT COMEDY THIS MAN SPEAKS.
@pivotman999 HAHA, OMG THAT WAS HILARIOUS like 8 years ago... Chill, let Mr. Black do the freaking out. Just let the rest of them in here talk it out. Honestly, how many places can you really have the blunt, no holds barred kind of arguments the the internet brings? On the internet I can tell everyone "religious people are fucking retarded" without being escorted out. I don't want to tell someone in person that they are brainwashed into a fairy tale like a child on Santa Claus.
the Netherlands use socialized healthcare: on a list of the happiest countries in the world only 2 of 10 were not in Northern Europe, the other two? Canada and New Zealand, both of whom also use socialized healthcare.
plus the only sector the the Netherlands is losing jobs is in the prison Sector due to a lack of criminals! they have it great! I'm from Canada and NO ONE I've met, including U.S. immigrants, want privatized health care
@lollypopalopicus I live in Switzerland, which has a private system that actually works fairly well, but it takes strong reigning in from the government and the people not to start just pulling money out of our pockets for no reason. I have experienced some stuff here in 6 months that I hadn't experienced in Germany for 25 years. In the USA I had no HI, and the one time I had to be operated on I was literally butchered and sent out into the street again the day after...
@Malaka57 I was watching a documentary on the German and Swiss methods and while overall I'm pleased with the government based Canadian system, your system seems to have some advantages by keeping oversight and delivery separate. The problem with the American system is not necessarily the private sector but their worship of the private sector combined with their general fear of government as a voice for people. (I know not all Americans think that way.)
The question about US healthcare is what happens to the below average citizen. If you require facts about US health care from a fact based source please see “the U.S. Healthcare system in international Context”.
For the average citizen the WHO puts the USA at 37th in the world. Of course, if you have the money to pay or by some miracle the insurance company agrees to, its got phenomenal medical care, but that's offset by all the poor schmucks who can't afford insurance or whose insurance won't pay.
France has the best healthcare in the world, according to the 2000 WHO study (they've not done one since), and the UK, with socialised healthcare since 1948, ranks a not too bad 18th.
@86fpc It looks like it's working at first. At first a credit card looks real good too. If you keep using it to delay the day of reckoning, then it's gonna hurt when it can't be put off on someone else any more. There is no perpetual motion machine either. Hard news to bare, I know. Shoot the messenger.
@356pla look dude americas healthcare is one of the worst in the first world and just about every other first world country healthcare system is inclusive (i.e everyone working togeather for a more even and moral system) and has been working well for a long time, why dont you look up how your postal service or police enforcement systems run and explain to us all why its good for a doctors motivation to come by way of financial incentive instead of a combination of factors including wages
@86fpc FIrst you are wrong in thinking that the US system is inferior as far as care for the average citizen. Check your facts. The Soviets used the socialist methods longest so crashed first. The rest of us mix varying degrees of forced redistribution of earnings with the natural capitaist inclinations of each of us to trade with the people we choose so we both come out with what we want.
@356pla oh yes dumping sick people out on the street cause they cant afford to pay shows such high moral standards of america and incase you havnt already noticed things aint going so well for you guys in oh so many ways so id lay off the soviets if i were you considering the path americas on
@YoungIvyScholar 1) And you use everyone else's. Are you saying America invents everything? Arrogant bollocks.
2) We share. You have a problem with that? If you have private insurance you use someone else's money to pay for healthcare. That's the point of insurance.
3) I'm not the target of the question but if you need to know I'm from Canada. Our healthcare has some big issues but a politician that tried to take it away would get strung up. You have big issues too.
@rugbyguy59 I have a problem with both public (Universal, Government) Insurance and private, as it is the height of irresponsibility to have someone else pay for your mistakes.
@Rensune Where do you young yanks come up with such idealistic nonsense? You presuppose all insurance is only paid out on "mistakes", assume everyone has the needed info to make correct decisions, and that random shit doesn't happen. My mother ate well, exercised every day, and did what was she was supposed to. She died of cancer and suffered with the illness for years. Insurance is a common sense facing up to this reality. Some make bad choices. Oh well. That's life.
@rugbyguy59 This particular "yank" worked for both private insurance and Medicare (and the medicare workers were far less intelligent. I had to explain to them on many occasions, what Medicare was. Not my thoughts on it, but the government definition.) I have seen the creature from the inside. It allows the cost of those services to be raised higher (as it is "shared").
Insurance should ONLY be used for emergencies (Amputation, lifethreatening situations) and not checkups and broken bones.
@Rensune In Canada costs are greatly reduced by sharing them. Same for other countries. Our administrative costs are miles below yours because we don't have companies spending all it can to deny treatment. There are other systems that use private companies but under strict government guidelines. Your Medicare is the exception to the rule because your country allows for profit medical care to control the system
Paying for checkups lowers costs by catching problems early.
@rugbyguy59 Eating a healthy diet, not doing recreational drugs, and exercising vigorously on a regular basis prevents most problems from occurring. I can't speak for other countries as I did not work there, but most of the cost was either from people out of shape with bad diets, or addicts. And the healthy population, no matter what country they are in, should not be forced to pay for those not willing to do the same.
I've known vegan-muppets that excercised and looked at their own shit trying to see if it had fiber. One died of cancer and the other one has Parkinson
@rugbyguy59 Broken bones mainly requires proper setting. In all reality, only the cost of the doctor putting the bone in place (service) and the cost of the cast (material) should be charged.
With any system of middle man (Insurance, public or private). It increases cost. Because it puts another person in the process, it has to. Even without the perversion it often leads to in America or the other Western Powers, that is one more person to pay.
@rugbyguy59 It is amusing to me when anti-universal healthcare people say they don't want to pay for others healthcare, or have them pay for theirs.
(a) Private insurance IS you paying for others, and IS others paying for you: its a system in which everyone contributes to the common pot, and only a few take out significantly from it.
(b) Those people do sound like total ass-holes, lets not forget that.
@Neanderthalcouzin So true. National health insurance is similar to Private health insurance; only its purpose is to heal people, rather than to steal from people.
@GodsGayLover I don't want to pay for either. Get rid of health care insurance and crappy socialist medicine altogether. Let the free market based on supply and demand decide what things cost and medical expenses will drop to affordable levels for most people. You think it costs $100 to make those heart pills my mother takes? Hell no, they charge that much because her insurance and medicare will pick it up and for that reason she doesn't care what the actual cost is. Its all a scam.
@genepoolshallow It's not just the cost of manufacturing the medication. There is the cost research, paying the wages of the doctors and nurses, paying for the upkeep of hospitals and equipment. All of this has to be covered by private insurance or by taxes. You clearly have no clue how health care systems work.
@GodsGayLover Of course I understand the costs of research and development. What I don't believe is that the cost of the R&D matches the price to consumers. Health care prices are high because the hospitals gouge those who HAVE insurance to cover the costs of those who don't. The same way taxpayers pay through taxes the cost of feeding the seething masses of ignorant turds who have children they can't afford to feed. You clearly don't understand the politics of health care.
@genepoolshallow A lot of Pharmaceutical drugs are specalised and intended for a small consumer base, this pushes the price up (like you said supply and demand, this is what you wanted). By reducing the consumer base to only those who can afford it upfront, you will increase the individual costs. If you want to pay the full salary of your own personal doctor, then fine; Everyone else would rather share the costs. You are confusing politics with practicality.
@genepoolshallow answer to heatlhcare problems: 1) masses must wake up to the corporatist / facsist system that takes place behind the scenes in the U.S. 2) all humans are inherently selfish (sefish means to look after your own self-interest). Even when donating to charity, it is done becuase it makes the individual feel better. 3) masses must realize that REAL capitalism (which has not existed in this country for over a century) encourages selfish people to excel, including excelling in R&D
@theaterofdreamswrite What is your point? I don't work 10 double shifts a month so other people can pay off their homes. I do it so I can pay off MY home and therefore make MY retirement more enjoyable. Hard work motivated by the selfish desire for a comfortable retirement. But selfish or not, I will EARN it. To hell with those who don't. And corporate/fascism has not been behind the scenes for a while now. Its all right out in the open these days.
@genepoolshallow well, lol, that's my point. I agree with you. my point about selfishness was a philosophical one, because philosophy is at the CORE of human endeavors, way before any bickering over what healthcare policy we should have. inherent selfishness in humans means that INDIVIDUALS should work for themsleves, and that the idea that it is moral to take from you to give to less productive individuals is a fallacy. we're all fighting for a piece of the pie, some are just honest about it
@YoungIvyScholar 1) LIke what? Whole developed world uses new innovation when it is possible, its not their concern who created it in the first place 2) no i probably pay somebodys else healthcare, and im greatfull that i can help others like that, we all share the comitment, just like everybody in yours county pays tax for war even if a lot of people oppose it.... funny how that one works huh? 3) Croatia
@YoungIvyScholar That's the dumbest argument i've ever heard! Using that logic, one could say how dare you use the english language, you know you stole it - or Americans stole the idea of wearing clothes!
@YoungIvyScholar I live in Canada and work for Health Canada...I'm pretty positive our Health Care is phenomenal. It just starts to lack when we have shortages or doctors and specialists, then sometimes we have to go to other countries where they might have different specialists but everyone does that.
@BrokenBard I'm pretty sure it can't go on for ever. There is no perpetual motion machine and your neighbour shouldn't be treated as a resource to be mined. I live in Ontario. I was a civil servant. You have the attitude of a leach and are willing to feed off our children when you need personal care.
And you have the attitude of a selfish bastard if you're unwilling to help your fellows when they're in need, as they would do for you. Personally I'm quite happy having my taxes going on maintaining the NHS - its much more worthwhile than the ghastly overspending your country puts into the business of killing people.
I note you're also apparently happy to accept the financial help of others when your house is on fire or you're being mugged. The police and fire service aren't free.
@356pla "I deny you the right to use force against me when you don't like my choice."
I love how libertarians dress up selfishness and desire for the benefits of the state without it's costs in the clothes of liberty. Government has a moral obligation to protect and empower the citizenry. Providing healthcare is part of that purpose, otherwise only those who can afford it get protected. Promoting equal opportunity is a fundamental obligation of government. Either that or liberty is for the few.
@rugbyguy59 First I don't think of myself as a libertarian. I profess Objectivism. Second, what is this creature named Government that supposedly has a moral obligation? All I see is some people with arbitrary power over some other people. Government is instituted first to prevent the arbitrary use of force among the populace of a country. It is not simply a popularity contest to establish who gets to be the ruling gang that wields the club.
@356pla this thing called government is a big part of how we organize ourselves as a society. It is anything but arbitrary and its powers are well defined constitutionally. If we wish to redefine those rights we can do so as a society. Objectivism has a reductionist view of human nature and while it sounds good, like communism, it fails to express all aspects of human nature.
@rugbyguy59 I agree that those who control the actions of a government are obligated, when the constitution demands it, to protect the citizenry. I'm not so sure about the idea of 'empowering' them. Providing healthcare requires providing them with the means to aquire that care. So who becomes obligated to act as surgeon? Does the surgeon retain any right of choice? Do those who do the work of healthcare become 'obligated'? Do they retain liberty?
@356pla Why would anyone be obligated to work in healthcare? We pick our careers and choose to stay in them ourselves.
The role of government is to empower citizens because that is how you maintain a true merit society. One of those empowerment tools is ensuring all have access to equal healthcare. The government can do so directly or via private companies. Either way they have to make it attractive for prospective employees to provide the service. So of course they retain liberty.
@paulbottomley42 "unwilling to help your fellows when they're in need, as they would do for you"
Here you suggest that all those who contribute to the pot I draw on living here do so willingly. I guess I'm a minority of one. Look friend, you imply that you buying a man a coffee tomorrow gives you a claim on him until you get a coffee back. Talk about a mercenary attitude!
@dubya68 That.... makes no sense, health insurance companies do not invest in research and new medicines, big pharma does and they are also there to make a profit, pumping out drugs that kill us just as much as they help. Health care for profit is immoral.
Big pharma is a part of the healthcare system. If you can't make a profit or lots of money as a doctor then there is less incentive. Profit is not immoral, telling people they aren't allowed to do something is immoral.
@dubya68 all the commercials all day about drugs hurting people and lawyers wanting your case, and then there is the FDA pulling them off shelves for killing people.
Big Pharma is NOT A HEALTHCARE PROVIDOR. Really? That's your incentive to become a doctor is to make lots of money? I thought it might be to keep people healthy, if you want to make money be a lawyer. Profit IS IMMORAL when it is with healthcare as to make profit you have an incentive to DENY CARE to people, not give more/better.
@Militarized Why is profit immoral? How does a company make more money by turning away customers? If they provided healthcare to everyone who showed up at their door then they'd go out of business. But I guess you believe the government in all of its infinite wisdom and power can do that instead. Eventually, with people like you, we'd end up as serfs to the government instead of customers to the companies. As a customer you have freedom, as a serf you're practically a slave.
@dubya68 You ARE a serf already with the corporatism in this country. Your freedom is an illusion. Now.. I stated a clear difference, HEALTHCARE profit is immoral, not profit in general. Stop making everything black and white like a child. What happens is the company does take their money, when they get sick they try and find every reason possible to deny them care, hc companies have dedicated teams to rooting through all your personal info/history to try and find reasons. You have cancer? SORRY
@Militarized That's why I advocate for a return to pure capitalism. Yeah, my freedom is an illusion, my enslavement sure as hell won't be an illusion when the government rationalizes its way to authoritarianism through "the public good" or "healthcare for all."
Some insurance companies can do that because they don't have much competition. If we could buy insurance across state lines then that would be different.
@Militarized Also, yes, if greedy people who want to make money become doctors, it will increase their motivation to provide the best care and maintain/develop their knowledge to the best of their abilities. Someone's gotta pay for medical school too.
@dubya68 lol, no when greedy people become doctors you get what we have now. Doctors who don't care about their patients, focus on specialization instead of going into pediatrics/care(we have a shortage of those don't you know? no money in it). They make money by getting your in and out as fast as possible, with no time to care. If they're greedy instead of caring, they're going to care about THE MONEY LEBOWSKI, not YOU. Europe has an incentive system, if patients are healthier you get a raise!
@Militarized Since when have doctors actually "cared" about their patients? That's due to the doc being a d-bag not money. Getting paid gives the doctor the ability to focus on their work. Would you want a doctor who doesn't know if they could pay their bills? They operate by getting you in and out as fast as possible because they can't FOCUS ON ONE SELFISH PRICK ALL DAMN DAY LONG. YES THEY CARE ABOUT THE MONEY BECAUSE IF THEY DON'T TREAT ME WELL THEY AREN'T GETTING IT!
@dubya68 That is a childish, asinine response but I'll try again... Who said anything about NOT paying the doctor? You said greed was good, I showed why it isn't, then you say something about not paying them at all? Absurd argument. Focusing on a patient, and not misdiagnosing him by not rushing him out quick as possible is SUCH A HORRIBLE THING RIGHT? They should CARE ABOUT THEIR PATIENTS, empathy is deeply ingrained in us because it helps cultures/civilizations survive, as do healthy citizens!
@Militarized I'm pretty sure that if a doctor makes many mistakes and is generally unreliable, he will go out of business. What would you do about our healthcare system?
@dubya68 I think you'd be suprised. I would open up health care to be bought across state borders ALONG with introducing a public option, which would be -real- competition instead of the fallacy of it we have now. I would put the incentive and money into PREVENTITIVE care instead of what we do now, which is practically the opposite. That includes raises for getting patients to stop smoking, lose weight, be healthier in general to bring actual health care costs down. Too much to list really.
@Militarized Actually, that is something I can get behind as long as the government can balance and maintain the budget before doing so. I'm sorry, I just assume (because everyone I know who is thinks like this) that if you are against the current healthcare system that you are for single payer healthcare and the virtual nationalization of the whole industry. They claim that a complete gov't takeover is justified by the preamble to the Constitution.
@jamo387 are you incapable of having a grown-up conversation? Why are you people so afraid of joining the rest of the world? Did you know that the only countries without universal health care are China, North Korea, USA, and most third world countries? I have to wonder who pays for parents and grandparents medical bills? Would that be Medicare or Medicaid? You should try to use that filter between your brain and your mouth, lttle boy!
@kris13119 Ahhh shaddup you whiny little bitch. Yeah, I want to join all those third world countries and Dying Europe as one country after another defaults on its loans and borrows more to bail out the cradle to grave government sponsored coddling. It's working out real well. Medicaid and Medicare? You use that to bolster your arguments? When's the last time you checked that trust fund dimwit? Think our money is sitting in a vault (or "lock box" to use leftist parlance). It's a sinking ship.
@jamo387 Again with the childish name calling.Try to remember you're not on the playground, so try to use your big boy words. See, honey, you live in the US, which currently has one of the worst economies in the world. You guys are one natural disaster away from financila collapse. You foot the bills for these huge bailout of companies, which, by the way, are still a complete failure- "That's where we want our tax dollars to go, not to our own citizens", you cry as one!
@kris13119 Honey? I ain't your honey, skank. Hey, I agree with you though. These leftist scum in our "crony capitalist" government have sold us out to their buddies in the banking industry. Of course, Ireland, Spain, Greece, Portugal and the other welfare states are in worse trouble than we are - even with our "community organizer" in chief spending as fast as he can to pay off his cronies. So you see what happens when leftists rein? You prove my point. Now spend your own money not mine, lefty.
@jamo387 I know you're bitter, after all, being the result of a $5 trick gone horribly wrong can't be easy. Actually, I have to agree with you. Just because your mom spends her days blowing vice cops and behind bars, why should I have to foot the bill? Maybe we can make the police a pay per use service. Just have your certified cheque or cash ready when they show up at the door. Same thing with the fire department and the military, hell who needs those evil socialist services anyway, right?
@kris13119 Gee you sound so angry now. Keep your 5 $ whores to yourself, okay? Of course your argument is dimwitted. Forcing others to pay for your health care is a little different than paying for police. I wouldn't expect a Canadian to know the difference but there is one. I don't blame you though, when you run out of arguments, lash out at your superiors like a good lib. You guys are nasty when backed into a corner...like dogs. WOOF WOOF Chump.
@theclinger exactly. in third world countries with a high disparity between the rich and the poor, a standard white trash americans now aspire and vote for, the rich hire private security forces because the government cant provide the basic amenity. in america, the rich hire private health care workforces because the government cant provide the basic amenity
@jamo387 How exactly is it different?? Despite what you've been brainwashed into believing, Canadians don't pay that much more tax than you. The reality is that we get more for our dollar. Our Gov. sales tax is 7%, however, we recieve 4 rebates per year. I personally pay 15% income tax, but recieve 30%of that 15% in refund. As far as our health care is concerned, many provinces charge a premium only if your income is above a certain amount. I am covered through my company's extended benefits.
@kris13119 well said. Although some parts of the HST still seem a little fishy to me. Canada has good healthcare that's for sure, but I feel as though there is still problems with general practitioners and hospitals (specifically the waiting times between surgeries and over crowding of the hospitals). My Grandfather had to wait 8 months for an operation on his back when a guy with a bruised thumb is in line ahead of him, its just wrong.
@Musician0296 I don't like the HST either, maybe one day, with enough pressure, we'll get the answers we are looking for. Sorry to hear about your Grandfather - sometimes you have to wonder at their logic. I also believe there are problems with our healthcare, I don't think anyone has found that perfect system, after all, it's created by humans! I'm injured as well and boy am I ever thankful I live here! It has cost me nothing - doctors, tests, meds, physio, hell, even my wages are paid!
@kris13119 "sometimes you have to wonder at their logic"
I live in Portugal where much of health care is produced by the state, but we do have private health care too. I have met quite a few people who have had knee joint operation, and I can tell you the logic here. All who went through state health care had to wait much longer for cirurgy. But within those, the older you were the more you had to wait: an ex-neighbord of mine was still to be called after years, and the guy was in pain.
@UnconformistSheep I never realized that Portugal had both private and gov. healthcare. We do not have private-it is considered the same as police, fire,courts etc. Profit has been removed from this service, and is illegal in Canada. I think because I was born into this system, the idea of paying for it is foreign to me. After hearing horror stories from people from other countries, like losing their homes, pre-existing conditions (?), co-pay (?), etc., I feel fortunate to live where I do.
@kris13119 Are you sure about that? It is my understanding most health care in Canada is produced privately. (Unlike here, or the U.K. where most hospitals and health facilities are owned by the state, and directly managed by the Health Ministry) 5% of Canadian hospitals are for-profit, while the rest is non-profit. Heath insurance/funding is indeed produced by the state, and competition is forbidden.
@kris13119 I don't know if most private hospitals here are for-profit or not. (I do know everybody involved in the health industry makes lots of money.) The private hospitals here do work better than the state ones and look nicer and cleaner, but may not be covered by state or private insurance. If you're Portuguese, the bill of a state hospital only amounts to a few euros, and it's only meant to avoid over-usage, so many people tend to wait for those. ER is produced by the state too.
@UnconformistSheep Every Canadian is issued a care card through the Ministry of Health in their home province, which provides healthcare. The only private insurance companies that I know about are for extended benefits, eg. Sunlife, Blue Cross, etc. to pay for things like dental, prescription drugs, etc. For those who cannot afford this, programs such as fair pharmacare, healthy kids ensures that no Canadian can be denied coverage.
@UnconformistSheep After reading your post, I decided to quickly look into private hospitals. I found that Ontario, for example, had 7 private hospitals, however, 6 receive funding from the Ministry of Health. I am a resident of rural BC, and we're pretty isolated here - we're charged a premium if we earn over a certain amount. With a population of a little over 4 million in an area of more than 900,000 sq. km, funding sometimes is an issue. The closest city over 200,000 is Vancouver, 9hrs away.
@kris13119 anyhow, my point (which youtube didn't let me finish) is that it seems pretty obvious that medics under state production have an incentive to treat younger people. My guess is that because it uses a system of quotas rather than profits, medics will just pick and choose the easier, less problematic cases. There is much less potential for all kinds of headaches when you're treating a young person.
As I pointed out this is in Portugal. Would love to hear more on the Canadian experience.
@kris13119 I don't disagree, America has fallen under the leftists. They've steadily moved this country away from free market capitalism since FDR. I don't think Canada is anything spectacular but you don't have B.S. like Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac in Canada and thus were relatively spared this latest recession. In fact, America now has one of the most hostile business climates in the world with the highest corporate tax rates around and rising entitlement costs every year. Pathetic
@jamo387 cont- My cost is $80/mo.That covers my provincial premium and basic coverage, which inludes doctors visits, hospital stay, etc. It also covers 100% presc. drugs,100% optometrists (inc. glasses) 100% dental ,private hospital stay, travel for treatment anywhere my family needs to go, tickets, meals, hotels, etc , physiotherapy, massage therapy, 100% coverage, extended disability up to 12 months with 100% wages. These are provided to low income families if they cannot afford them.
@jamo387 Did you just state that it was the leftists that sold you out to the bankers? So even though that's a right wing move & we have a right wing government, it was the leftists that did it? How is funding police different than funding health care publicly? Both constitute the protection of positive liberty so don't give me that line, what's the difference?
@Fuctmentality If you think we have a right wing government, you're an idiot. Yes, The leftists in the white house/congress/FED partnered with Goldman Sachs and others in the banking community to screw the American people. Funding police protects liberty. Liberty is is a right. Healthcare protects you from illness. Health care is like housing, food, clothes, transportation, etc. It's a combination of wants and needs that you should pay for yourself. Gov't ain't yer momma. Take care of yourself.
@jamo387 I'm an idiot for recognizing reality? If we don't have a right wing government then why do we have regressive taxation? Bailouts? Oil subsidies? All these are right wing things Again both police & public healthcare protect positive liberty. So what's the difference? Saying that one protects liberty while the other doesn't is a lie. Property is a positive liberty, guaranteed healthcare is a positive liberty, so why is it okay to have one positive liberty but not the other?
@Fuctmentality We have a progressive tax system. The top 1 percent of income earners paid 40 percent of all federal income taxes in 2007, while the bottom 50 percent paid only 3 percent. Obama and the left controlled congress did the bailouts and TARP too for that matter. Ethanol subsidies under the same group of lefties. Taxpayer funded Healthcare denies liberty to one group (taxpayers) to give benefits to others (non taxpayers) - hardly "pro freedom", more like government enforced servitude.
@jamo387 and before you go saying "yeah but bush did....". I hate Bush. He's a big government asshole just like the rest. Bush expanded medicare entitlements, left the borders wide open and robbed the taxpayer with his buddy Hank Paulson. You ask me, Obama is just an extreme version of Bush. Crony capitalism, continued foreign wars of dubious merit, growing government and destroying individual liberty/private property rights. Screw them both. To call this a right wing government is delusional.
@Fuctmentality By the way, do you remember Obama and McCain going to D.C. both supporting this bailout BS ? All the libs in congress drooling at the sound of deficit spending for slush funds and pet projects? Pelosi and Reid were cumming in their pants waiting to spend our dough. You call that a conservative government? Bush was for it too. How about "Cash for Clunkers"? Remember that crap? leftist nonsense as well.
@jamo387 You forgot to add in payroll tax. Conservatives died out in the late 70s. && You are complaining that a positive (ie granted by society not nature) liberty is being violated to give people a positive liberty. & in a few hours we will see a 50% reduction in the number of liberals in congress ie we will lose 1.Bailouts again rightwing everyone who knows what the term rightwing means knows this.
@Fuctmentality Absolutely - Payroll tax - 1913, 16th amendment to the Constitution. Snuck in on Christmas eve (sound familiar?). Ushered in by Woody Wilson - leftist scum bag - along with the Federal Reserve Bank and their collection agency the IRS. That's where it all starts. Read the creature from Jekyll Island. Our founding fathers wrote about taxes being apportioned (read "equally divided") amongst the states according to the population. No income tax without apportionment was legal.
@Fuctmentality Thanks to woody and his pals (Rockefeller, warburg, Morgan and others), they now could put in place a progressive system of taxation appealing to class warfare sentiment amongst the population - "ONLY THE RICH WILL PAY". Heard that one before? I'll give you a hint - A certain Nigerian living in the white house likes this trick too. They've been "redistributing" the wealth of productive members of society to non- productive members since that time. Conservative my ass.
@jamo387 Is that an admission or a dogde, because if it's an admi9ssion you should have included the fact that we have regressive taxation? Either way thanks for telling me you were a Bush voter.
@jamo387 Actually no, the rates go up, untile you get to the top 1% then they go down, once you get to the top 1/2% they are damned near half what the people in the top 10% pay. That's if you incorperat payroll tax, which technically is only supposed to go to services like SS & medicare but has been used to shore up budget shortcommings in other areas Since the Reagan admin. Thus giving us a regressive tax system. Thanks to Reagan.
@Fuctmentality from wikipedia: "In the United States, there are six "tax brackets." ranging from 10% to 35%. If taxable income falls within a particular tax bracket, the individual pays the listed percentage of income on each dollar that falls within that monetary range...This ensures that every rise in a person's salary results in an increase of after-tax salary. In general, the U.S. income tax is progressive, at leas
I dont have to look at the comments to know there's a bunch of angry people yelling about God's existence
WIDOWDUDE1 1 month ago
@WIDOWDUDE1 I don't think that enough people who like or listen to Lewis Black would be the sort who are much inclined to argue about the existence of God to begin with.
But there IS an awful big discussion about Health Care, interestingly enough.
literacyscaresme 1 month ago
@bdlenz1173
So when folks like yourself show up to Republican debates and chant "Let them die," when a question about uninsured sick people comes up, not only is it totally lacking in empathy and fundamental decency, it also displays a profound ignorance about the realities of the private insurance system.
EuchridEucrow1 2 months ago
@EuchridEucrow1 You've never lived under a socialized healthcare system, have you? Until you do, come talk to me about the bullshit you're shoveling.
Been there done that, I've lived under both systems and while the US one may not be perfect, it's far superior to the liberal/socialized garbage you want so desperately.
niveknailgun 2 months ago
@niveknailgun
I've lived in Canada all my life, bucko. I'm thankful for the health care we have in my country because had I been born in the United States, what with my parent's lack of financial resources and the various health problems I had as a child, I probably wouldn't be alive today.
I'm grateful that in Canada, cancer survival rates aren't completely dependent on socio-economic realities. I'm also grateful that we enjoy a longer lifespan than Americans.
EuchridEucrow1 2 months ago
@EuchridEucrow1 I was raised in Canada and moved at the age of 25. Like you, I didn't see what was wrong with it and thought the US system was bad also, until I actually lived here. And to repeat, the US system is far superior; I've been here 10 years now.
The cancer survival rate is higher in the US. Fact.
The treatment here is MUCH quicker and available to everyone. They cannot deny treatment.
niveknailgun 2 months ago
@niveknailgun
We don't experience the phenomenon of job lock in the country and fighting critical illness isn't a matter of bankruptcy for Canadians. Oh and we don't have to worry about being denied treatment based on the whims of a private insurer.
Yes sir, I'll stick with my socialized medicine. Because at least it isn't a death sentence for people below a certain income level.
EuchridEucrow1 2 months ago
@EuchridEucrow1 Absolutely false. You cannot deny treatment. Yes, you will get billed, but yes you will get treated. Quit spreading falsehoods, it doesn't advance the debate.
The key to fixing the US system is to hammer down on frivolous law suits, thus driving up the costs of treatment and drugs, not revamping it with an inferior socialized system that drains the citizen. There is no such thing as 'free' healthcare, only inferior healthcare that everyone pays for, one way or another.
niveknailgun 2 months ago
@niveknailgun
Yeah, that's how you fix healthcare. You start by removing the individual's right to any recourse under the law in the event of malpractice. Does this shit make sense in your head before you write it down?
And you continue to ignore the glaring facts. How exactly does an inferior health care system correlate to better cancer survival rates and longer life spans in the general population? Is it a better system for the affluent? Yes, absolutely.
EuchridEucrow1 2 months ago
@EuchridEucrow1 “I wouldn’t like to see Americans make the same mistake Canadians have made… Patients in Canada are treated like Third World citizens. Our health-care system is like Cuba or North Korea.”
- Lindsay McCreith (Brain tumor patient, Canada)
“This country would be nowhere without its elderly population. We have always worked and paid our taxes. It seems most unfair that we’ve got nothing at the end of it.”
- Dawn Ford (Eye disease patient, UK)
Think before you write, friend.
niveknailgun 2 months ago
@EuchridEucrow1 And you think there's recourse when something goes wrong, against the GOVERNMENT? lol....I think you need to take your own advice above friend, and think first.
The facts show, that the cancer survival rate is higher among US citizens than Canadians. You can scream and kick all you like. Admitting you are wrong is more noble than a temper tantrum.
niveknailgun 2 months ago
Comment removed
EuchridEucrow1 2 months ago
@niveknailgun
I think you need to exercise a little more skepticism when it comes to private insurers. If they can deny a claim, they will. It usually works because who has the resources for a court battle with one of these behemoths?
And yes, if you show up in an ER, as of right now they have to treat you. That's fine for things like a heart attack, but what about cancer where you need regular doses of chemotherapy? "Let them die," right?
A pathological lack of empathy is an mental illness
EuchridEucrow1 2 months ago
@EuchridEucrow1 I didn't say they won't deny a claim; I said that you still get treatment, which is true. And I already told you the solution several posts back. It's putting a stop to the ambulance chasing. Across the globe, citizens of nations with government-run health care systems experience long wait times, a lack of access to certain treatments and, in some instances, a diminished quality of medical care.
niveknailgun 2 months ago
@bdlenz1173
Couple problems here:
1) insurance companies often fight claims tooth and nail, with billions in financial resources. A three year legal battle is nothing to them. Three years with untreated cancer? Bad news.
2) there's a ridiculous myth out there, perpetuated by assholes like yourself, that insurance companies accept anyone willing to pay. If you've ever had a serious illness in your life, you aren't getting covered. Period. These people aren't lazy, just unlucky.
EuchridEucrow1 2 months ago
Comment removed
EuchridEucrow1 2 months ago
In Lewis Black we trust!
iversonmatthew 2 months ago
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rrenvall 3 months ago
@bdlenz1173 Right, except that an advanced surgery can cost in houndreds of thousands of dollars... So who do you think pays if you just been insured for a year and need one?
MrXyborg 3 months ago
food before. ive worked in mines. ive logged. ive earned my damn way. and granted i understand people sometimes hit a rough spot, but, are you kidding me???!!! sitting on a courner with a sign begging for money or asking for the rest of the country to pay for your medical bills is plain lazy!
bdlenz1173 3 months ago
i dont need to help anyone but my family and my friends. its not wrong to think that way! why the hell should i go out of my way to help a complete stranger who doesnt give a damn what happens to me. there are always jobs available. just because its not the job you want doesnt mean its not a JOB. these people need to quit trying to ride the damn system and earn their way like the rest of us. dont tell me i dont know what im talking about because ive slept on park benches before and gone without
bdlenz1173 3 months ago
not to sound selfish but im not going to pay for someone elses healthcare. my family and friends are my only concern and if i dont know you, then i dont give a rats ass about you. you dont care if i come home in a box or on my feet so why should i. its nothing personel i just dont care.
bdlenz1173 6 months ago
@bdlenz1173 What do you think happens with private insurance? We are all paying for each other's healthcare.
parkj238 5 months ago
@parkj238 i know im still young, this is just from what i see and read, so, with that said please tell me how that works. if i have private insurance then im the only person that is covered by that plan. if someone else who i dont even know gets sick/hurt, then my insurance isnt going to help them and im not paying there premium so how am i paying for someone elses insurance?? very interested in the debate but like i said young just saying what i feel from my point of view
bdlenz1173 4 months ago
@bdlenz1173 The concept of insurance, is from the private sector. The insurance company collects from as many people as possible to help pay for stuff. Your monthly premiums doesn't correlate to the cost of your care. We are all paying for each other. Depending on the case, your money can go pay for someone else's healthcare bills, and you will pay into it with the hope that if you get really sick, the insurance company will be there to pay for your high cost bills.
parkj238 4 months ago
@bdlenz1173 It's the idea that we as americans help the sick, and poor. There are people out there that don't have any money, and they will die without help. We are all in this world together, and we need to help our kind.
Evan42881 4 months ago
I wonder what you americans would have to say about the Norwegian health care system :)
I know Fox doesnt like it, because ""Taaaaxes dont make no people richer"""
gulbirk 6 months ago
So in every first world country except for the US the people mostly love their healthcare system. I never EVER heard anyone complain about our healthcare.
Now people in the US DO complain about it and on top of that don't want to change it. I don't get it.
Londron 6 months ago
FORA.tv = Fuck Our Religion And get a job.tv
dutymaster1 6 months ago
he is the one of the very few jews that is alright.. compare to the other greedy fucking masses.. after the holocust, many lost their sense of morals and faith and all the fucking thing that stands for as a human being, but this man prevails...
knight2battle 6 months ago
hey, I LOVE MY HEALTH INSURANCE!!!!!!!
oh wait, I'm Canadian...Muhahaha
lianghaochen 7 months ago 2
Lewis Black is full of shit. Don't blame capitalism (free markets) for why heatlhcare is so shitty in the U.S. the U.S. hasnt had REAL capitalism for over a century. Today, we have CORPORATISM (also known as Facsism): this is when gov't and corporations work together to squelch competition and do sinister things. REAL free markets would only encourage low prices, better quality medicine, more efficient R&D, etc. Look at gov't run medicare and medicaid: goin backrupt. and u want universal care?
theaterofdreamswrite 7 months ago
It's funny how a discussion of healthcare can sometimes bring out such angry comments. As a Canadian, I am fortunate to not have this worry - I just couldn't imagine living like that. The only thing I have to pay is my employer extended benefits, $70/mo for a family of five and that covers everything!
kris13119 7 months ago
Ah, Lewis Black, he speaks so eloquently. LOL. Actually, he's pretty much hit the nail on the head.
darkknight9761 7 months ago
Lewis=hero
sonykroket 7 months ago
"I'm in Aspen, so there are probably seventeen vegans in the room."
Boy, you're lucky the conference wasn't in Northampton.
IoEstasCedonta 8 months ago
Health Care has to be a profit making institution. Why? Who the hell wants to go to college for 12 years, pay a shit load of money, and then make the same amount of money that they could have made being a plumber?
Anubis4815162342 8 months ago
@Anubis4815162342 Suprise! Plumbers also require college. They need to have their physics. BTW, docs make alot in Canada... Just not as much...
helioncry 7 months ago
@Anubis4815162342 i like your point but you can make a pretty good living being a plumber. better than most professions. you do have to go to school to get a plumbing license. the license isn't required to be a plumber but it does help.
t3hultimat3pwnag3 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
A question for atheists. In a world where there's no proof of God's existence or of life after death; how do you explain to your children why you brought them into the world and why they should die?
QuestionForAtheists 8 months ago
Female Breast, "Not Only Perfect", but a "Milk Delivery System"... This guy is funny !!!
BigWheelHawaii 9 months ago 11
I love Lewis Black and George Carlin! :D
jmlew 9 months ago 19
This man is hilarious... and he's not even trying.
MatthewJoelSforcina1 9 months ago
Socialist isn't communist. China is communist.
The NHS is good because everyone pays for everyone else, so -unlike America- people are not dieing horrible deaths because they can't afford it. In places like America you have to pay for just about everything to do with health, from flu jabs to the painkillers in birth and cancer treatments. That is sick. Paying for your own life is immoral and disgusting.
xXDeCentaXx 10 months ago
Doubt: a side effect of free will.
ticks/other parasites/work: punishments that went along with being kicked out of Eden
gyrrakavian 10 months ago
HEY EVERYONE READ THIS COMMENT AND STOP FUCKING BITCHING ABOUT AMERICA AND SHIT. NO ONE CARES, FIGHTING ON THE INTERNET IS LIKE BEING IN THE SPECIAL OLYMPICS, EVEN IF YOU WIN, YOUR STILL MENTALLY RETARDED. SO EVERYONE SHUT THE FUCK UP AND JUST LAUGH AT THE GREAT COMEDY THIS MAN SPEAKS.
pivotman999 10 months ago
@pivotman999 HAHA, OMG THAT WAS HILARIOUS like 8 years ago... Chill, let Mr. Black do the freaking out. Just let the rest of them in here talk it out. Honestly, how many places can you really have the blunt, no holds barred kind of arguments the the internet brings? On the internet I can tell everyone "religious people are fucking retarded" without being escorted out. I don't want to tell someone in person that they are brainwashed into a fairy tale like a child on Santa Claus.
albinoman13bt 10 months ago
the Netherlands use socialized healthcare: on a list of the happiest countries in the world only 2 of 10 were not in Northern Europe, the other two? Canada and New Zealand, both of whom also use socialized healthcare.
plus the only sector the the Netherlands is losing jobs is in the prison Sector due to a lack of criminals! they have it great! I'm from Canada and NO ONE I've met, including U.S. immigrants, want privatized health care
lollypopalopicus 10 months ago
@lollypopalopicus I live in Switzerland, which has a private system that actually works fairly well, but it takes strong reigning in from the government and the people not to start just pulling money out of our pockets for no reason. I have experienced some stuff here in 6 months that I hadn't experienced in Germany for 25 years. In the USA I had no HI, and the one time I had to be operated on I was literally butchered and sent out into the street again the day after...
Malaka57 9 months ago
@Malaka57 I was watching a documentary on the German and Swiss methods and while overall I'm pleased with the government based Canadian system, your system seems to have some advantages by keeping oversight and delivery separate. The problem with the American system is not necessarily the private sector but their worship of the private sector combined with their general fear of government as a voice for people. (I know not all Americans think that way.)
rugbyguy59 9 months ago
Comment removed
lollypopalopicus 10 months ago
We ask WHY America is rapid decline....
This man is one EXCELLENT example.
btrask3 10 months ago
@btrask3 Actually Lewis Black is one of the reason's there is still hope for America. Rare but real, outraged common sense.
rugbyguy59 10 months ago
The question about US healthcare is what happens to the below average citizen. If you require facts about US health care from a fact based source please see “the U.S. Healthcare system in international Context”.
davijeph 10 months ago
americas healthcare ranking anyone know what it is in comparison with other first world nations
cjhmmp 10 months ago
@cjhmmp
For the average citizen the WHO puts the USA at 37th in the world. Of course, if you have the money to pay or by some miracle the insurance company agrees to, its got phenomenal medical care, but that's offset by all the poor schmucks who can't afford insurance or whose insurance won't pay.
France has the best healthcare in the world, according to the 2000 WHO study (they've not done one since), and the UK, with socialised healthcare since 1948, ranks a not too bad 18th.
paulbottomley42 10 months ago
@paulbottomley42 just as one would expect from America screw over the poor and claim number 1 in everything lol
cjhmmp 10 months ago
Lewis Black , you rock!
SirRowanRooke 11 months ago 2
Socialized anything is a Ponzi scheme. All in the net? All dragged down together,
356pla 11 months ago
@356pla so basically your saying fuck everyone else as long as your ok lol halfwit
86fpc 10 months ago 3
@86fpc That's a very narrow minded and simplistic response. I'm not impressed at all. Good swear though.
356pla 10 months ago
@86fpc It would be wonderful if socialism could work. It would be nice if there was a Santa too!
356pla 10 months ago
@86fpc It looks like it's working at first. At first a credit card looks real good too. If you keep using it to delay the day of reckoning, then it's gonna hurt when it can't be put off on someone else any more. There is no perpetual motion machine either. Hard news to bare, I know. Shoot the messenger.
356pla 10 months ago
@356pla look dude americas healthcare is one of the worst in the first world and just about every other first world country healthcare system is inclusive (i.e everyone working togeather for a more even and moral system) and has been working well for a long time, why dont you look up how your postal service or police enforcement systems run and explain to us all why its good for a doctors motivation to come by way of financial incentive instead of a combination of factors including wages
86fpc 10 months ago 3
@86fpc FIrst you are wrong in thinking that the US system is inferior as far as care for the average citizen. Check your facts. The Soviets used the socialist methods longest so crashed first. The rest of us mix varying degrees of forced redistribution of earnings with the natural capitaist inclinations of each of us to trade with the people we choose so we both come out with what we want.
356pla 10 months ago
@356pla oh yes dumping sick people out on the street cause they cant afford to pay shows such high moral standards of america and incase you havnt already noticed things aint going so well for you guys in oh so many ways so id lay off the soviets if i were you considering the path americas on
86fpc 10 months ago
@356pla care for the average citizen lol i think you need to check your facts buddy
cjhmmp 10 months ago
Lewis Black for President!
CarajilloDulce 11 months ago
I LOVE LEWIS BLACK!
claydg1 11 months ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Socialized healthcare doesn't work... look at Europe, Canada, Cuba, etc.
YoungIvyScholar 1 year ago
@YoungIvyScholar ...europe? what part of europe? i mean, i know AAALLLLL of europe doesn't have socialized healthcare.
cledet1219 1 year ago
@cledet1219 A lot of Western Europe like with the U.K. & France.
YoungIvyScholar 1 year ago
@YoungIvyScholar im from Europe and can say it works perfectly
serafcaine 1 year ago 9
@serafcaine 1) You use all of America's innovation
2) You probably use somebody else's money to pay for the healthcare
3) Where in Europe?
YoungIvyScholar 1 year ago
@YoungIvyScholar 1) And you use everyone else's. Are you saying America invents everything? Arrogant bollocks.
2) We share. You have a problem with that? If you have private insurance you use someone else's money to pay for healthcare. That's the point of insurance.
3) I'm not the target of the question but if you need to know I'm from Canada. Our healthcare has some big issues but a politician that tried to take it away would get strung up. You have big issues too.
rugbyguy59 1 year ago 32
@rugbyguy59 My my. Triple-wielding rebukes. I agree with the content and am highly amused..that said, please add more irate amazement. ^v^
JoshBronzewyrm 10 months ago
@rugbyguy59 I have a problem with both public (Universal, Government) Insurance and private, as it is the height of irresponsibility to have someone else pay for your mistakes.
Rensune 9 months ago
@Rensune Where do you young yanks come up with such idealistic nonsense? You presuppose all insurance is only paid out on "mistakes", assume everyone has the needed info to make correct decisions, and that random shit doesn't happen. My mother ate well, exercised every day, and did what was she was supposed to. She died of cancer and suffered with the illness for years. Insurance is a common sense facing up to this reality. Some make bad choices. Oh well. That's life.
rugbyguy59 9 months ago
@rugbyguy59 This particular "yank" worked for both private insurance and Medicare (and the medicare workers were far less intelligent. I had to explain to them on many occasions, what Medicare was. Not my thoughts on it, but the government definition.) I have seen the creature from the inside. It allows the cost of those services to be raised higher (as it is "shared").
Insurance should ONLY be used for emergencies (Amputation, lifethreatening situations) and not checkups and broken bones.
Rensune 9 months ago
@Rensune In Canada costs are greatly reduced by sharing them. Same for other countries. Our administrative costs are miles below yours because we don't have companies spending all it can to deny treatment. There are other systems that use private companies but under strict government guidelines. Your Medicare is the exception to the rule because your country allows for profit medical care to control the system
Paying for checkups lowers costs by catching problems early.
Why not broken bones?
rugbyguy59 9 months ago 2
@rugbyguy59 Eating a healthy diet, not doing recreational drugs, and exercising vigorously on a regular basis prevents most problems from occurring. I can't speak for other countries as I did not work there, but most of the cost was either from people out of shape with bad diets, or addicts. And the healthy population, no matter what country they are in, should not be forced to pay for those not willing to do the same.
Rensune 9 months ago
@Rensune
I've known vegan-muppets that excercised and looked at their own shit trying to see if it had fiber. One died of cancer and the other one has Parkinson
Healthy living is not a safeguard for anything.
sonykroket 7 months ago
@rugbyguy59 Broken bones mainly requires proper setting. In all reality, only the cost of the doctor putting the bone in place (service) and the cost of the cast (material) should be charged.
With any system of middle man (Insurance, public or private). It increases cost. Because it puts another person in the process, it has to. Even without the perversion it often leads to in America or the other Western Powers, that is one more person to pay.
Rensune 9 months ago
@rugbyguy59 It is amusing to me when anti-universal healthcare people say they don't want to pay for others healthcare, or have them pay for theirs.
(a) Private insurance IS you paying for others, and IS others paying for you: its a system in which everyone contributes to the common pot, and only a few take out significantly from it.
(b) Those people do sound like total ass-holes, lets not forget that.
Neanderthalcouzin 8 months ago
@Neanderthalcouzin So true. National health insurance is similar to Private health insurance; only its purpose is to heal people, rather than to steal from people.
GodsGayLover 8 months ago
@GodsGayLover I don't want to pay for either. Get rid of health care insurance and crappy socialist medicine altogether. Let the free market based on supply and demand decide what things cost and medical expenses will drop to affordable levels for most people. You think it costs $100 to make those heart pills my mother takes? Hell no, they charge that much because her insurance and medicare will pick it up and for that reason she doesn't care what the actual cost is. Its all a scam.
genepoolshallow 7 months ago
@genepoolshallow It's not just the cost of manufacturing the medication. There is the cost research, paying the wages of the doctors and nurses, paying for the upkeep of hospitals and equipment. All of this has to be covered by private insurance or by taxes. You clearly have no clue how health care systems work.
GodsGayLover 7 months ago
@GodsGayLover Of course I understand the costs of research and development. What I don't believe is that the cost of the R&D matches the price to consumers. Health care prices are high because the hospitals gouge those who HAVE insurance to cover the costs of those who don't. The same way taxpayers pay through taxes the cost of feeding the seething masses of ignorant turds who have children they can't afford to feed. You clearly don't understand the politics of health care.
genepoolshallow 7 months ago
@genepoolshallow A lot of Pharmaceutical drugs are specalised and intended for a small consumer base, this pushes the price up (like you said supply and demand, this is what you wanted). By reducing the consumer base to only those who can afford it upfront, you will increase the individual costs. If you want to pay the full salary of your own personal doctor, then fine; Everyone else would rather share the costs. You are confusing politics with practicality.
GodsGayLover 7 months ago
@genepoolshallow answer to heatlhcare problems: 1) masses must wake up to the corporatist / facsist system that takes place behind the scenes in the U.S. 2) all humans are inherently selfish (sefish means to look after your own self-interest). Even when donating to charity, it is done becuase it makes the individual feel better. 3) masses must realize that REAL capitalism (which has not existed in this country for over a century) encourages selfish people to excel, including excelling in R&D
theaterofdreamswrite 7 months ago
@theaterofdreamswrite What is your point? I don't work 10 double shifts a month so other people can pay off their homes. I do it so I can pay off MY home and therefore make MY retirement more enjoyable. Hard work motivated by the selfish desire for a comfortable retirement. But selfish or not, I will EARN it. To hell with those who don't. And corporate/fascism has not been behind the scenes for a while now. Its all right out in the open these days.
genepoolshallow 7 months ago
@genepoolshallow well, lol, that's my point. I agree with you. my point about selfishness was a philosophical one, because philosophy is at the CORE of human endeavors, way before any bickering over what healthcare policy we should have. inherent selfishness in humans means that INDIVIDUALS should work for themsleves, and that the idea that it is moral to take from you to give to less productive individuals is a fallacy. we're all fighting for a piece of the pie, some are just honest about it
theaterofdreamswrite 7 months ago
@YoungIvyScholar 1) LIke what? Whole developed world uses new innovation when it is possible, its not their concern who created it in the first place 2) no i probably pay somebodys else healthcare, and im greatfull that i can help others like that, we all share the comitment, just like everybody in yours county pays tax for war even if a lot of people oppose it.... funny how that one works huh? 3) Croatia
serafcaine 1 year ago 17
@serafcaine lll
1878EFC2008 6 months ago
@YoungIvyScholar That's the dumbest argument i've ever heard! Using that logic, one could say how dare you use the english language, you know you stole it - or Americans stole the idea of wearing clothes!
kris13119 11 months ago
@YoungIvyScholar I live in Canada and work for Health Canada...I'm pretty positive our Health Care is phenomenal. It just starts to lack when we have shortages or doctors and specialists, then sometimes we have to go to other countries where they might have different specialists but everyone does that.
BrokenBard 11 months ago
@BrokenBard
*Heart attack*
*Ambulance arrives*
"Wait, let me die, I cannot afford the hospital Bills and I don't wanna screw over my kids"
rangergxi 11 months ago 4
@BrokenBard I'm pretty sure it can't go on for ever. There is no perpetual motion machine and your neighbour shouldn't be treated as a resource to be mined. I live in Ontario. I was a civil servant. You have the attitude of a leach and are willing to feed off our children when you need personal care.
356pla 10 months ago
@356pla
And you have the attitude of a selfish bastard if you're unwilling to help your fellows when they're in need, as they would do for you. Personally I'm quite happy having my taxes going on maintaining the NHS - its much more worthwhile than the ghastly overspending your country puts into the business of killing people.
I note you're also apparently happy to accept the financial help of others when your house is on fire or you're being mugged. The police and fire service aren't free.
paulbottomley42 10 months ago
@paulbottomley42 Sometimes I'm willing. Sometimes I'm not. I deny you the right to use force against me when you don't like my choice.
356pla 10 months ago
@356pla "I deny you the right to use force against me when you don't like my choice."
I love how libertarians dress up selfishness and desire for the benefits of the state without it's costs in the clothes of liberty. Government has a moral obligation to protect and empower the citizenry. Providing healthcare is part of that purpose, otherwise only those who can afford it get protected. Promoting equal opportunity is a fundamental obligation of government. Either that or liberty is for the few.
rugbyguy59 10 months ago
@rugbyguy59 First I don't think of myself as a libertarian. I profess Objectivism. Second, what is this creature named Government that supposedly has a moral obligation? All I see is some people with arbitrary power over some other people. Government is instituted first to prevent the arbitrary use of force among the populace of a country. It is not simply a popularity contest to establish who gets to be the ruling gang that wields the club.
356pla 10 months ago
@356pla this thing called government is a big part of how we organize ourselves as a society. It is anything but arbitrary and its powers are well defined constitutionally. If we wish to redefine those rights we can do so as a society. Objectivism has a reductionist view of human nature and while it sounds good, like communism, it fails to express all aspects of human nature.
rugbyguy59 10 months ago
@rugbyguy59 " it fails to express all aspects of human nature. "
Well what more needs to be said after that condemnation. I'll let the others judge.
356pla 10 months ago
@356pla OK. It doesn't even come close to expressing the true nature of humans. Is that better?
rugbyguy59 10 months ago
@rugbyguy59 I agree that those who control the actions of a government are obligated, when the constitution demands it, to protect the citizenry. I'm not so sure about the idea of 'empowering' them. Providing healthcare requires providing them with the means to aquire that care. So who becomes obligated to act as surgeon? Does the surgeon retain any right of choice? Do those who do the work of healthcare become 'obligated'? Do they retain liberty?
356pla 10 months ago
@356pla Why would anyone be obligated to work in healthcare? We pick our careers and choose to stay in them ourselves.
The role of government is to empower citizens because that is how you maintain a true merit society. One of those empowerment tools is ensuring all have access to equal healthcare. The government can do so directly or via private companies. Either way they have to make it attractive for prospective employees to provide the service. So of course they retain liberty.
rugbyguy59 10 months ago
@paulbottomley42 "unwilling to help your fellows when they're in need, as they would do for you"
Here you suggest that all those who contribute to the pot I draw on living here do so willingly. I guess I'm a minority of one. Look friend, you imply that you buying a man a coffee tomorrow gives you a claim on him until you get a coffee back. Talk about a mercenary attitude!
356pla 10 months ago
Comment removed
lollypopalopicus 10 months ago
Yes! Lets not make any profit on healthcare so nobody can afford to research and develop new medicines!! YAY!
dubya68 1 year ago
@dubya68 That.... makes no sense, health insurance companies do not invest in research and new medicines, big pharma does and they are also there to make a profit, pumping out drugs that kill us just as much as they help. Health care for profit is immoral.
Militarized 1 year ago
@Militarized Proof of drugs that will kill us
Big pharma is a part of the healthcare system. If you can't make a profit or lots of money as a doctor then there is less incentive. Profit is not immoral, telling people they aren't allowed to do something is immoral.
dubya68 1 year ago
@dubya68 all the commercials all day about drugs hurting people and lawyers wanting your case, and then there is the FDA pulling them off shelves for killing people.
Big Pharma is NOT A HEALTHCARE PROVIDOR. Really? That's your incentive to become a doctor is to make lots of money? I thought it might be to keep people healthy, if you want to make money be a lawyer. Profit IS IMMORAL when it is with healthcare as to make profit you have an incentive to DENY CARE to people, not give more/better.
Militarized 1 year ago
@Militarized Why is profit immoral? How does a company make more money by turning away customers? If they provided healthcare to everyone who showed up at their door then they'd go out of business. But I guess you believe the government in all of its infinite wisdom and power can do that instead. Eventually, with people like you, we'd end up as serfs to the government instead of customers to the companies. As a customer you have freedom, as a serf you're practically a slave.
dubya68 1 year ago
@dubya68 You ARE a serf already with the corporatism in this country. Your freedom is an illusion. Now.. I stated a clear difference, HEALTHCARE profit is immoral, not profit in general. Stop making everything black and white like a child. What happens is the company does take their money, when they get sick they try and find every reason possible to deny them care, hc companies have dedicated teams to rooting through all your personal info/history to try and find reasons. You have cancer? SORRY
Militarized 1 year ago
@Militarized That's why I advocate for a return to pure capitalism. Yeah, my freedom is an illusion, my enslavement sure as hell won't be an illusion when the government rationalizes its way to authoritarianism through "the public good" or "healthcare for all."
Some insurance companies can do that because they don't have much competition. If we could buy insurance across state lines then that would be different.
dubya68 1 year ago
@Militarized Also, yes, if greedy people who want to make money become doctors, it will increase their motivation to provide the best care and maintain/develop their knowledge to the best of their abilities. Someone's gotta pay for medical school too.
dubya68 1 year ago
@dubya68 lol, no when greedy people become doctors you get what we have now. Doctors who don't care about their patients, focus on specialization instead of going into pediatrics/care(we have a shortage of those don't you know? no money in it). They make money by getting your in and out as fast as possible, with no time to care. If they're greedy instead of caring, they're going to care about THE MONEY LEBOWSKI, not YOU. Europe has an incentive system, if patients are healthier you get a raise!
Militarized 1 year ago
@Militarized Since when have doctors actually "cared" about their patients? That's due to the doc being a d-bag not money. Getting paid gives the doctor the ability to focus on their work. Would you want a doctor who doesn't know if they could pay their bills? They operate by getting you in and out as fast as possible because they can't FOCUS ON ONE SELFISH PRICK ALL DAMN DAY LONG. YES THEY CARE ABOUT THE MONEY BECAUSE IF THEY DON'T TREAT ME WELL THEY AREN'T GETTING IT!
dubya68 1 year ago
@dubya68 That is a childish, asinine response but I'll try again... Who said anything about NOT paying the doctor? You said greed was good, I showed why it isn't, then you say something about not paying them at all? Absurd argument. Focusing on a patient, and not misdiagnosing him by not rushing him out quick as possible is SUCH A HORRIBLE THING RIGHT? They should CARE ABOUT THEIR PATIENTS, empathy is deeply ingrained in us because it helps cultures/civilizations survive, as do healthy citizens!
Militarized 1 year ago
@Militarized I'm pretty sure that if a doctor makes many mistakes and is generally unreliable, he will go out of business. What would you do about our healthcare system?
dubya68 1 year ago
@dubya68 I think you'd be suprised. I would open up health care to be bought across state borders ALONG with introducing a public option, which would be -real- competition instead of the fallacy of it we have now. I would put the incentive and money into PREVENTITIVE care instead of what we do now, which is practically the opposite. That includes raises for getting patients to stop smoking, lose weight, be healthier in general to bring actual health care costs down. Too much to list really.
Militarized 1 year ago
@Militarized Actually, that is something I can get behind as long as the government can balance and maintain the budget before doing so. I'm sorry, I just assume (because everyone I know who is thinks like this) that if you are against the current healthcare system that you are for single payer healthcare and the virtual nationalization of the whole industry. They claim that a complete gov't takeover is justified by the preamble to the Constitution.
dubya68 1 year ago
Health care is not helping the poor... at all.
SunnyLovetts 1 year ago
Cancer, both the disease and the sign.
powcat21 1 year ago 2
@MangaMoogleMan Is kenyan really any better>?
jamo387 1 year ago
SUE ELLEN GRACLAND IS A BITCH!!!!!! IF ANYONE HATES SUELLENGRACELAND , CHECK OUT MY CHANNEL. ENTIRLEY DEVOTED TO BE A BITCH TO SUEELLENGRACELAND
SueEllenGraceworld 1 year ago
lets all kill sueellengraceland
killerNC17 1 year ago
@killerNC17 agreed!!
kris13119 1 year ago
this guy its so fun haha.
brazdamnit 1 year ago
I'm so glad we have FORA-TV on YouTube. I learn so much thanks to them. : )
winterstellar 1 year ago
He is absolutely right. Some things shouldn't be for sale. It's time to join the rest of the world and make healthcare a right, not a privilege.
kris13119 1 year ago
@kris13119 Spend your own money on yourself and keep your hands off my wallet leftist scumbag.
jamo387 1 year ago
@jamo387 are you incapable of having a grown-up conversation? Why are you people so afraid of joining the rest of the world? Did you know that the only countries without universal health care are China, North Korea, USA, and most third world countries? I have to wonder who pays for parents and grandparents medical bills? Would that be Medicare or Medicaid? You should try to use that filter between your brain and your mouth, lttle boy!
kris13119 1 year ago
@kris13119 Ahhh shaddup you whiny little bitch. Yeah, I want to join all those third world countries and Dying Europe as one country after another defaults on its loans and borrows more to bail out the cradle to grave government sponsored coddling. It's working out real well. Medicaid and Medicare? You use that to bolster your arguments? When's the last time you checked that trust fund dimwit? Think our money is sitting in a vault (or "lock box" to use leftist parlance). It's a sinking ship.
jamo387 1 year ago
@jamo387 Again with the childish name calling.Try to remember you're not on the playground, so try to use your big boy words. See, honey, you live in the US, which currently has one of the worst economies in the world. You guys are one natural disaster away from financila collapse. You foot the bills for these huge bailout of companies, which, by the way, are still a complete failure- "That's where we want our tax dollars to go, not to our own citizens", you cry as one!
kris13119 1 year ago
@kris13119 Honey? I ain't your honey, skank. Hey, I agree with you though. These leftist scum in our "crony capitalist" government have sold us out to their buddies in the banking industry. Of course, Ireland, Spain, Greece, Portugal and the other welfare states are in worse trouble than we are - even with our "community organizer" in chief spending as fast as he can to pay off his cronies. So you see what happens when leftists rein? You prove my point. Now spend your own money not mine, lefty.
jamo387 1 year ago
@jamo387 I know you're bitter, after all, being the result of a $5 trick gone horribly wrong can't be easy. Actually, I have to agree with you. Just because your mom spends her days blowing vice cops and behind bars, why should I have to foot the bill? Maybe we can make the police a pay per use service. Just have your certified cheque or cash ready when they show up at the door. Same thing with the fire department and the military, hell who needs those evil socialist services anyway, right?
kris13119 1 year ago
@kris13119 Gee you sound so angry now. Keep your 5 $ whores to yourself, okay? Of course your argument is dimwitted. Forcing others to pay for your health care is a little different than paying for police. I wouldn't expect a Canadian to know the difference but there is one. I don't blame you though, when you run out of arguments, lash out at your superiors like a good lib. You guys are nasty when backed into a corner...like dogs. WOOF WOOF Chump.
jamo387 1 year ago
@jamo387 "Forcing others to pay for your health care is a little different than paying for police." How?
theclinger 1 year ago
@theclinger exactly. in third world countries with a high disparity between the rich and the poor, a standard white trash americans now aspire and vote for, the rich hire private security forces because the government cant provide the basic amenity. in america, the rich hire private health care workforces because the government cant provide the basic amenity
manonthemount 1 year ago
@theclinger If you need to ask, you're too stupid for words.
jamo387 1 year ago
@jamo387 Ah, the old ignore the argument and insult the commenter tactic. Well played sir, well played.
theclinger 1 year ago
@jamo387 How exactly is it different?? Despite what you've been brainwashed into believing, Canadians don't pay that much more tax than you. The reality is that we get more for our dollar. Our Gov. sales tax is 7%, however, we recieve 4 rebates per year. I personally pay 15% income tax, but recieve 30%of that 15% in refund. As far as our health care is concerned, many provinces charge a premium only if your income is above a certain amount. I am covered through my company's extended benefits.
kris13119 1 year ago
@kris13119 well said. Although some parts of the HST still seem a little fishy to me. Canada has good healthcare that's for sure, but I feel as though there is still problems with general practitioners and hospitals (specifically the waiting times between surgeries and over crowding of the hospitals). My Grandfather had to wait 8 months for an operation on his back when a guy with a bruised thumb is in line ahead of him, its just wrong.
Musician0296 1 year ago
@Musician0296 I don't like the HST either, maybe one day, with enough pressure, we'll get the answers we are looking for. Sorry to hear about your Grandfather - sometimes you have to wonder at their logic. I also believe there are problems with our healthcare, I don't think anyone has found that perfect system, after all, it's created by humans! I'm injured as well and boy am I ever thankful I live here! It has cost me nothing - doctors, tests, meds, physio, hell, even my wages are paid!
kris13119 1 year ago
@kris13119 "sometimes you have to wonder at their logic"
I live in Portugal where much of health care is produced by the state, but we do have private health care too. I have met quite a few people who have had knee joint operation, and I can tell you the logic here. All who went through state health care had to wait much longer for cirurgy. But within those, the older you were the more you had to wait: an ex-neighbord of mine was still to be called after years, and the guy was in pain.
UnconformistSheep 1 year ago
@UnconformistSheep I never realized that Portugal had both private and gov. healthcare. We do not have private-it is considered the same as police, fire,courts etc. Profit has been removed from this service, and is illegal in Canada. I think because I was born into this system, the idea of paying for it is foreign to me. After hearing horror stories from people from other countries, like losing their homes, pre-existing conditions (?), co-pay (?), etc., I feel fortunate to live where I do.
kris13119 1 year ago
@kris13119 Are you sure about that? It is my understanding most health care in Canada is produced privately. (Unlike here, or the U.K. where most hospitals and health facilities are owned by the state, and directly managed by the Health Ministry) 5% of Canadian hospitals are for-profit, while the rest is non-profit. Heath insurance/funding is indeed produced by the state, and competition is forbidden.
UnconformistSheep 1 year ago
@kris13119 I don't know if most private hospitals here are for-profit or not. (I do know everybody involved in the health industry makes lots of money.) The private hospitals here do work better than the state ones and look nicer and cleaner, but may not be covered by state or private insurance. If you're Portuguese, the bill of a state hospital only amounts to a few euros, and it's only meant to avoid over-usage, so many people tend to wait for those. ER is produced by the state too.
UnconformistSheep 1 year ago
@UnconformistSheep Every Canadian is issued a care card through the Ministry of Health in their home province, which provides healthcare. The only private insurance companies that I know about are for extended benefits, eg. Sunlife, Blue Cross, etc. to pay for things like dental, prescription drugs, etc. For those who cannot afford this, programs such as fair pharmacare, healthy kids ensures that no Canadian can be denied coverage.
kris13119 1 year ago
@UnconformistSheep After reading your post, I decided to quickly look into private hospitals. I found that Ontario, for example, had 7 private hospitals, however, 6 receive funding from the Ministry of Health. I am a resident of rural BC, and we're pretty isolated here - we're charged a premium if we earn over a certain amount. With a population of a little over 4 million in an area of more than 900,000 sq. km, funding sometimes is an issue. The closest city over 200,000 is Vancouver, 9hrs away.
kris13119 1 year ago
@kris13119 anyhow, my point (which youtube didn't let me finish) is that it seems pretty obvious that medics under state production have an incentive to treat younger people. My guess is that because it uses a system of quotas rather than profits, medics will just pick and choose the easier, less problematic cases. There is much less potential for all kinds of headaches when you're treating a young person.
As I pointed out this is in Portugal. Would love to hear more on the Canadian experience.
UnconformistSheep 1 year ago
@kris13119 I don't disagree, America has fallen under the leftists. They've steadily moved this country away from free market capitalism since FDR. I don't think Canada is anything spectacular but you don't have B.S. like Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac in Canada and thus were relatively spared this latest recession. In fact, America now has one of the most hostile business climates in the world with the highest corporate tax rates around and rising entitlement costs every year. Pathetic
jamo387 1 year ago
@jamo387 cont- My cost is $80/mo.That covers my provincial premium and basic coverage, which inludes doctors visits, hospital stay, etc. It also covers 100% presc. drugs,100% optometrists (inc. glasses) 100% dental ,private hospital stay, travel for treatment anywhere my family needs to go, tickets, meals, hotels, etc , physiotherapy, massage therapy, 100% coverage, extended disability up to 12 months with 100% wages. These are provided to low income families if they cannot afford them.
kris13119 1 year ago
@jamo387 Did you just state that it was the leftists that sold you out to the bankers? So even though that's a right wing move & we have a right wing government, it was the leftists that did it? How is funding police different than funding health care publicly? Both constitute the protection of positive liberty so don't give me that line, what's the difference?
Fuctmentality 1 year ago
@Fuctmentality If you think we have a right wing government, you're an idiot. Yes, The leftists in the white house/congress/FED partnered with Goldman Sachs and others in the banking community to screw the American people. Funding police protects liberty. Liberty is is a right. Healthcare protects you from illness. Health care is like housing, food, clothes, transportation, etc. It's a combination of wants and needs that you should pay for yourself. Gov't ain't yer momma. Take care of yourself.
jamo387 1 year ago
@jamo387 I'm an idiot for recognizing reality? If we don't have a right wing government then why do we have regressive taxation? Bailouts? Oil subsidies? All these are right wing things Again both police & public healthcare protect positive liberty. So what's the difference? Saying that one protects liberty while the other doesn't is a lie. Property is a positive liberty, guaranteed healthcare is a positive liberty, so why is it okay to have one positive liberty but not the other?
Fuctmentality 1 year ago
@Fuctmentality We have a progressive tax system. The top 1 percent of income earners paid 40 percent of all federal income taxes in 2007, while the bottom 50 percent paid only 3 percent. Obama and the left controlled congress did the bailouts and TARP too for that matter. Ethanol subsidies under the same group of lefties. Taxpayer funded Healthcare denies liberty to one group (taxpayers) to give benefits to others (non taxpayers) - hardly "pro freedom", more like government enforced servitude.
jamo387 1 year ago
@jamo387 and before you go saying "yeah but bush did....". I hate Bush. He's a big government asshole just like the rest. Bush expanded medicare entitlements, left the borders wide open and robbed the taxpayer with his buddy Hank Paulson. You ask me, Obama is just an extreme version of Bush. Crony capitalism, continued foreign wars of dubious merit, growing government and destroying individual liberty/private property rights. Screw them both. To call this a right wing government is delusional.
jamo387 1 year ago
@Fuctmentality By the way, do you remember Obama and McCain going to D.C. both supporting this bailout BS ? All the libs in congress drooling at the sound of deficit spending for slush funds and pet projects? Pelosi and Reid were cumming in their pants waiting to spend our dough. You call that a conservative government? Bush was for it too. How about "Cash for Clunkers"? Remember that crap? leftist nonsense as well.
jamo387 1 year ago
@jamo387 You forgot to add in payroll tax. Conservatives died out in the late 70s. && You are complaining that a positive (ie granted by society not nature) liberty is being violated to give people a positive liberty. & in a few hours we will see a 50% reduction in the number of liberals in congress ie we will lose 1.Bailouts again rightwing everyone who knows what the term rightwing means knows this.
Fuctmentality 1 year ago
@Fuctmentality Absolutely - Payroll tax - 1913, 16th amendment to the Constitution. Snuck in on Christmas eve (sound familiar?). Ushered in by Woody Wilson - leftist scum bag - along with the Federal Reserve Bank and their collection agency the IRS. That's where it all starts. Read the creature from Jekyll Island. Our founding fathers wrote about taxes being apportioned (read "equally divided") amongst the states according to the population. No income tax without apportionment was legal.
jamo387 1 year ago
@Fuctmentality Thanks to woody and his pals (Rockefeller, warburg, Morgan and others), they now could put in place a progressive system of taxation appealing to class warfare sentiment amongst the population - "ONLY THE RICH WILL PAY". Heard that one before? I'll give you a hint - A certain Nigerian living in the white house likes this trick too. They've been "redistributing" the wealth of productive members of society to non- productive members since that time. Conservative my ass.
jamo387 1 year ago
@jamo387 Is that an admission or a dogde, because if it's an admi9ssion you should have included the fact that we have regressive taxation? Either way thanks for telling me you were a Bush voter.
Fuctmentality 1 year ago
@Fuctmentality We have a progressive tax system stupid. The rates go up as your income goes up.
jamo387 1 year ago
@jamo387 Actually no, the rates go up, untile you get to the top 1% then they go down, once you get to the top 1/2% they are damned near half what the people in the top 10% pay. That's if you incorperat payroll tax, which technically is only supposed to go to services like SS & medicare but has been used to shore up budget shortcommings in other areas Since the Reagan admin. Thus giving us a regressive tax system. Thanks to Reagan.
Fuctmentality 1 year ago
@Fuctmentality from wikipedia: "In the United States, there are six "tax brackets." ranging from 10% to 35%. If taxable income falls within a particular tax bracket, the individual pays the listed percentage of income on each dollar that falls within that monetary range...This ensures that every rise in a person's salary results in an increase of after-tax salary. In general, the U.S. income tax is progressive, at leas