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From: bryanxt
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  • Ron Paul save us!

  • we know who the real terrorists are now.

  • Hell, there is blowback from the Jewish massacre of the Armenians in 1912 happening right now! Google Armenian massacre: Young Turks.

    With the coming genocide in Iran, Hitler looks a better leader with every passing day.

  • One VERY important fact that's usually omitted is this: The Shah, in cahoots with the Religious Right of Iran, and the approval of the US for that, hunted down and exterminated all secular, democatic or leftist opposition to his regime. Later on, of course,the Sha turned against the mullahs who wanted Iran to be run more religiously. But the thing is when the regime was crumbling in 1979, there was no secular opposition to take over. The mullahs filled in the vacuum - and the rest is history.

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  • IS RON PAUL SERIOUS? DO PEOPLE STILL HATE OTHERS FOR THINGS THEY DID OVER TWENTY YEARS AGO? DONT PEOPLE JUST FORGET THOSE THINGS? DURKA DERR!!

  • @tehdouglas1 NO PEOPLE DONT!!

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  • @tehdouglas1 did we forget who attacked pearl harbor? No.

  • @tehdouglas1

    really? blacks are still pretty mad over slavery. 2001-2012. 11 years have passed. i dont anyone is forgetting about 9/11 any time soon, especially the politicians who like to use it for their agenda. durka derr you're the real moron here.

  • 25 years of US supported oppression and the theft of iranian oil was the result of the coup in 1953. This resulted in the Iranian revolution in 1979 and the muslims have ruled after that...

  • Ron Paul in 2012... 

  • Ron Paul is right.

    Vote for Ron Paul. Why don't you go back to sleep? And stay out of the way of those of us who have AWAKEN.

  • @rickwilli77 The other Americans don't want to wake up because they don't want to believe that their government is the real terrorist creating terrorist pockets around the world to their greed and appetite! If Ron Paul can become president, I think he can defuse the situation in the middle east. At worst, they might fight each other but they'll leave the west alone, eventually!

  • Ron Paul with or without a Republican nomination! His foreign policy is so strong, because it's truth.

  • american dickheads better vote for ron paul

  • hell yeah blow back. the uk went to the us for help, they called Mohammed Mosaddeq a communist and a military coupe supported by the CIA was coordinated and the shah was installed. the people suffered a 26 year dictatorship with a democratic elected leader removed. the people remember and thats why they took the US hostages.

  • Okay so I'm English, but I have great problem with USA leading us into wars we have nothing to do with.

  • @saad477 are you fuckin serious? im british, i know how involved our gov's are, to think were just led by the US is very naive...blair is out in syria involved in peace deals, very little peace id say for those in syria. the uk is well and truly involved, the UK deals with the finances in London, The US is more the military power and the vatican is the spiritual element.

    u need to do a lot of research, i think ur guna be very shocked with what u find!

  • @becij13 In addition: We also supported the brutal dictator General Suharto in order to carve up the Indonesian economy to benefit our companies. We did business with him under the slaughter of a million people. America is worse than the UK in recent times, but we aren't too far behind. NATO = North Atlantic Terrorist Organization.

  • I hate ron paul, but he is correct in saying they hated us partly because of that. HOWEVER, Ron paul ignores the Soviet effort to foment revolution in Iran, the Communist students who shot at the Shah's troops and police and were the real origin of the 1979 student movement which the Mullahs took over

  • @usmc7242 "foment" what does that mean? What you ignored is the fact that WE "foment" (whatever that means) revolution in Iran after the Shah took over foreign industries located within his country. We instigated the right-wing islamic revolution that removed the Shah from power. Where the Soviets failed, the US and NATO succeeded. Yes BLOWBACK. Now as for you explaining to everyone that "Ron Paul is correct" I highly doubt you stating that fact means much of anything.

  • @Rao665 Your historical ignorance is showing. in 1972, we were putting sanctions against Iran because he wasn't treating his people as Nixon thought best. The Shah only became our friend after the 1973 war where the Muslims tried to wipe out Israel again and lost, so they embargoed oil to us and oil skyrockted inprice. The Shah came to our aid THEN and ONLY THEN did it start

    You young kids need to learn better history

  • @usmc7242 only one with ignorance is the knuckle draggin "ooorah" monkey who think he knows a bit about history and politics. in 1951 british oil assets were nationalized by Mossadeq which obviously angered the British and Americans. never did i say the Shah was our friend. Iran was not a part of the embargo, your making crap up now. and you really don't need to explain to me about Carter, Desert One and all that. I think you might need to google it though. "oorah" ooooahaha

  • @usmc7242 keep making your monkey noises devil.

  • @Rao665 and by the way, the Soviets DIDNT fail in 1979, that was a COMMUNIST revolution, the religious side was a side show until Khomenie came back, until then, it was a LEFTIST revoution. once Khomenie came back, the Mullahs took over and killed the leftists and took over it all, Khomenie killed over 100,000 people in his first year in power

    The Shah screamed for help, Carter ignored it, left him alone

    google rescueattempt com Jimmy Carter and Shah

  • @usmc7242 go drag your knuckles devil dog. this is for the big fish.

  • A foreign policy of leaving them alone....so crazy it might work

  • Learn from history, bitches! RON PAUL 2012!!

  • This is an example of what I like to refer to as "inconvenient history". Its inconvenient to the government to have this type of history explained and thats why you don't hear much about it. Guys like Noam Chomsky and Ron Paul have a seemingly unbiased understanding of events like this.

  • @ReeseMac DO they now? How very hilarious...I seemed to notice there are 3 "Congressman Ron Paul" corporations traded by that name on the D&B database...so "unbiased" they are...they dodge oh so VERY much. The game is about "Inconvenient Facts", not fabricated "HisStory"...and Ron Paul hates them as much as another other 2-bit Huckster and Hack.

  • They'll just make RP their bitch just like they've done with Obama. As long as the new pres has loved ones for them to threaten to kill, the new pres will do the same as the last pres. When gov gets this big, it's easy for the corrupt to retain their power. Only God can save us now.

  • @poldasauce They would need to kill Ron Paul because he will not allow them to make him their bitch.

  • isn't this video subjective? was world war II a blowback of disgruntled germans in world war I ? well....yeah, probably. but then again there are lots of other reasons....its a moot point dude. america touches something thats not theirs, and its ends up turning sour and wanting to kill us. when will we learn?

  • @kudjo24 Correction. FDR, without authorization from Congress according to Article I section 9 clause 11 of the Constitution took it upon himself to send a block aide to cut off the oil and steel to Japan while they were in a bloody war against China. Japan saw that as a preemption and responded by attacking Pearl Harbor. Yes, blow back. Typical of progressives wanting war when the economy is failing and their collectivist ideas don't work. War is the answer. Expect it before Obama leaves office

  • We dont learn this stuff in school because Education is mandated by our government.

  • 53 to 79 is a really really long time for an American, most Americans have trouble remembering what happened 10 years ago and or caring about it.

  • @Dethreid Whatda you talking about, most Americans forget what happened last year.N yes I spelled "whatda" on purpose. lol.

  • I believe in karma, US one day will learn the meaning of it. But innocent americans are gonna face dat, not the psycopaths in government.

  • yes it is the US that is the terrorist, we the people here are tired of all the propaganda the US gives us so we will sacrifice our young for corporate profit

  • @jerartty.zionist which run & control usa will sacrifice our young man for jew to survive then give them american flag when they died,usa people never ever wake up to get red of zionist in usa goverement,zionist penetrated in usa goverment since WWII & they kill Kenedy becuse kenedy asked zionist has to be member of IEAP then priminster of israeli (ben,gore) resign & order to kill kenedy & blame it on osvel that send by fedal castro,usa media lie to american people because they own it

  • Thank you Ron Paul and Bill Moyers.

  • Go to History Channel and watch Declassified: Ayatollah Khomeini.

  • "Blowback in 1979 from a 1953 coup? "

    Simply put,

    YES.

  • WELL HELL YEAH! YOU THINK ALLLLLL THE MANY NATIONS WE, THE US HAS MURDERED MAIMED & ROBBED THEIR LEADER, THEIR PEOPLE....SIMPLY FORGET? HA! I NEVER FORGET! DO YOU?

    WHAT WOULD YOU DO? ACTUALLY THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT IS HAPPENING IN AMERICA RIGHT NOW! WE ARE BEING OVERTHROWN BY CORPORATE BANKER PSYCHOPATHS! WHATTA YA GONNA DO AMERICA? LAY DOWN OR SPEAK THE TRUTH & STOP THESE GLOBAL MURDERING THIEVING UN-CONSTITUTIONAL BASTARDS? WE WILL REAP WHAT THE CRIMINALLY INSANE US FEDS & MILITARY HAVE SOWN!

  • @OurLordLennon I am Seminole and Cherokee, the USG has a lot to answer for. WOUNDED KNEE!?!

    Now, thanks to the Zionist takeover, we are all Palestinian or Native American.

  • @OurLordLennon caps lock - it's on the left-hand side of your keyboard, right above the shift key.

  • Anyone else notice that the shah's reign ended in 1979?.. oh right.

  • hahaha,great!!

  • this needs to go viral. like "FRIDAY Rebecca Black" viral. asap.

  • Here's the skinny on blowback: the government does something stupid, it has a negative result, and so government blames the people, and tells them that they need to give up their freedom in order for the government to do something ELSE stupid to "fix" it-- and so on.

    Example: the government built the Federal Reserve in 1913, which caused the Great Depression 14 year later; and so FDR came in with the New Deal to "fix the failure of capitalism" by destroying freedom like never before.

  • This is a red-handed proof of how the US government is in bed with with Big Oil to oppress foreign peoples and steal their oil, leading to blowback against the US.

    I just would to be able to tell the Iranian people the American people want no part of that, but that the lapdog-court media refuses to report the facts, and that the American people have long lost control of their government.

  • Operation Ajax

  • Noobs, I don't understand why you guys are actually listening to Ron Paul. "OOOHHHH, AAAAAHHHH, I go by the book, so do you, TROLOLOL, vote me for fucking president!". This guy doesn't even need to receive criticism.

  • @grandpajoe6191

    So you think that the Constitution is a joke?

  • yes, i would say anything thrown our way at this point would be BLOWBACK ~ WAR BLOWS!!

    

  • thank u so much for this video,somebody needs to hack cnn and fox news and put that shit on it

  • Please share the truth with so-called conservatives = Neocons.

    Youtube this:

    WXIX 19 (CIN) Ben Swann on Anwar Al-Awlaki and the Constitution

  • Mosedec is such an idiot. He confiscated an enormous amount of capital. Does he think people will invest their money in Iran if that is how the government will act? Sure, he can take the oil fields but the equipment will degrade because there is no vested interest looking after it. And then where are they? They have a bunch of run down capital and no investors to grow their economy.

  • @ArmednSafe "Mosedec is such an idiot. He confiscated an enormous amount of capital. Does he think people will invest their money in Iran if that is how the government will act?"

    MOSSADEQ was nationalizing Iran's oil industry at the SAME TIME the BRITISH were nationalizing their OWN oil industry.

    It's THEIR country, they live with the consequences, but using the MILITARY to make certain Western Companies continue to make money even after making a BAD INVESTMENT DECISION is WRONG.

  • @fuzzywzhe Just because the British did it, doesn't mean that it is a good idea.

    I agree, that the Pentagon using the military to overthrow him is wrong. The right thing to do would have been for the British oil companies to hire a private security force to protect their property from seizure by Mosedec's thugs. I'm sure there were plenty of Iranians who owned shares of those oil fields and the country would have benefited more from working WITH British investors instead of against them.

  • @ArmednSafe The RIGHT THING TO DO - is to allow private companies to EAT IT.

    They made a bad investment.

    British oil companies didn't hire thugs to prevent England's thugs from taking over their oil companies.

    I'm goddamned sick of tired of using OUR MILITARY to protect PRIVATE BUSINESSES. It's called THEFT. I'm paying a damned government to make certain a damned corporation turns a profit after they FUCK UP making a bad investment. They should go tits up. It's not my problem.

  • @fuzzywzhe The thug is the aggressor, not the defender. I agree, if a company makes a bad investment they should "eat it". However, a bad investment isn't one that someone wants to steal. A bad investment is one that consumes wealth, i.e. its inputs are more valuable than its outputs. I also agree with you that using a military to do anything is theft. The formation of a military requires theft. Taxation is a euphemism for stealing. Then they put the money in a military so they can steal more.

  • @ArmednSafe "The thug is the aggressor, not the defender."

    Well Mossadeq actually negotiated with the British offering, who were doing EXACTLY THE SAME THING TO THEIR OWN OIL INDUSTRY AT THE TIME, and the British negotiated with them.

    But while the British were negotiating in BAD FAITH, they were making a deal with the US to overthrow the Iranian DEMOCRACY and the CIA agreed, and after they overthrew the Democracy - they made a BRUTAL POLICE STATE to keep the dictator they put in, in power.

  • @fuzzywzhe When negotiating with a government, they are never negotiating "in good faith". They are always able to resort to violence if they cannot get what they want. That is the nature of government; it is not reason, it is force. This is a perfect example of it. It just turns out that the British oil companies had their own group of thugs also, and those thugs were better thugs. The real problem here is the institutionalized stealing that we put up with in society. Why can't we just say no?

  • @ArmednSafe "When negotiating with a government, they are never negotiating "in good faith". They are always able to resort to violence if they cannot get what they want."

    You said "The thug is the aggressor, not the defender."

    Well, it's pretty clear that the British and the United States was the aggressor. That's all I was pointing out.

  • @fuzzywzhe Morality is muddled when talking about governments. Everything they do is facilitated by coercion, stealing, and killing. They only way that the U.S. and British governments were able to do anything in Iran is through stealing from their people. The only way that Mosedec was able to "nationalize", another euphemism for stealing, was through stealing from the Iranian people. The British oil companies should have used their own money or volunteers to defend their assets.

  • @ArmednSafe Mossadeq has the right to do anything he wanted with his country. That's the point of having a nation.

    If the United States had a dictator put into power, by the Soviets, so the Soviets could plunder US natural resources, how would the US population react knowing that?

    Don't try to justify what the US and British did. You're only doing that because you're not a victim of it and if you were, you wouldn't be defending what the US and British did.

  • @fuzzywzhe I'm not defending what the CIA and MI6 did. What they did was very wrong. What Mossedec did was also very wrong, and stupid. I believe in individual rights and that those rights are inalienable; i.e. you can't give them away and no one can legitimately take them away. Your rights come from your humanity and just because someone is elected through a secret ballot doesn't mean that they can take your life, your property, or your freedom. What Mossedec did was take people's property.

  • @ArmednSafe No, what Mossadeq did do, WAS NOT WRONG - it was in the interests of his nation.

    The ONLY REASON the British were in Iran, is that they were occupying at the time - that's how they established the oil fields. They didn't buy it legitimately they stole it.

    Look up Operation Countenance - that operation was ALSO to steal oil in 1941. You might be able to excuse that because of WWII, but there is NO EXCUSE for it afterward.

  • @fuzzywzhe I didn't know that the British and the USSR invaded in '41. I was under the impression that it was BP that had bought and developed the oil fields. I can't find any indication of who owned the oil fields before Operation Countenance. If an Iranian company owned them, then Mossedec should have given them back to them. If the a British company owned them (properly) he shouldn't have taken them. I can't find anything that says which way it was. Do you have any sources to point me to?

  • @ArmednSafe Some of the oil fields WERE purchased, not all of them.

    It's Iran's country. You make a bad investment, too freaking bad for you. It's not the government's problem, which means it's not MY problem. It's the company's problem, and that's it.

  • @fuzzywzhe Ok, so lets say you invest in a company A in country B. Country A's prime-minister/president/parli­ament/legislature/dictator decides that they are going to commandeer all of the specific industry that company A is in. You are not compensated for the property that the government of country B decided to take. Is this OK with you? Is it the foreign government's (or even your government's) right to steal all that property?

  • @ArmednSafe I'd be upset, but I wouldn't be demanding my government overthrow the foreign government as a result of my loss, or worse start a war.

    And who funds the government anyhow? You do in part. You want me to send your butt over to the foreign country to fight a war so I don't realize a loss on my bad capital investment? You want to pay for a CIA overthrow and start a 60 year terrorism war over it?

    That's the consequence of what the US government did.

  • @fuzzywzhe No, I don't want government, period. I don't want to fund it. I'm forced to by thugs that work for the government. I don't want government stealing from people, bossing people around, killing people, brain washing people in compulsory education, poisoning people, rounding them up into labor camps, etc. I don't want any government to do ANYTHING. I want the only form of interaction that people have to be voluntary association.

  • @ArmednSafe

    No government at all? No system of law... at all?

    There are 7 billion people on this screwed up planet. No governance?

    That's insane to me.

  • @introvertical71 There would still be laws. The difference is that there would be only natural laws enforceable through the non-aggression principle. There would still be courts and lawyers (see arbitration). I think the pro-government side of the argument has a large burden of proof that government actually benefits society. The most common cause of un-natural death in the last century was governments rounding people up and exterminating them. Government is incredibly dangerous and destructive.

  • @ArmednSafe

    hmm.

  • @ArmednSafe IF the government was not here, then we would not be typing the computer and all and we would be an poor nation. The government is here for a reason what we needed. Want no government? Look at Somalia, no government at all and there was plenty of poverty going on.

  • @Hperman09 Can you explain to me what it is that government does to make us richer? Somalia has plenty of government making a mess. Just because it isn't a government recognized by the UN doesn't make it not government.

  • @Hperman09

    Yeah, we have a CONSTITUTION, jackass.

    READ it-- our government clearly doesn't.

  • @fuzzywzhe I'm not defending what the CIA and MI6 did. What they did was very wrong. What Mossedec did was also very wrong, and stupid. I believe in individual rights and that those rights are inalienable; i.e. you can't give them away and no one can legitimately take them away. Your rights come from your humanity and just because someone is elected through a secret ballot doesn't mean that they can take your life, your property, or your freedom. What Mossedec did was take people's property.

  • The other thing I haven't seen people talking about is that the US has a war attention span of about 10 years max.. The Arabs will fight wars for 500 years without a problem. We really need to stop nation building, or policing the world, or teaching people how to live like us by beating them over the head with a B2s and Tomahawks, and start demonstrating a way of life they might be interested in emulating, or not, their choice.

  • One of the reasons stated for 9/11 was because we were in Saudia Arabia in the first Gulf War a decade before. Sometimes these things take time to orchestrate themselves and fester in these radicals' minds. Ron Paul is right about blowback and the US shouldn't be bullying the rest of the world around!

  • You learn more on youtube than at school...

  • @Toadphillips

    Who told you school was for learning?

    Our society is based on LIES, and school only INGRAINS them... that's why people are forced to fund AND attend government-training centers for kids. Even the IDEA sounds like right out of 1984, but people just get used to it like a frog in a pot.

  • @SovereignStatesman ,, Yes Public School indoctrination is deep in the system.We need to make sure our kids know the truth..

  • @JaxxBat

    The purpose of public school isn't just indoctrination, it's cult-subjugation-- i.e. teaching people from birth to tolerate being kidnapped and abused by the system, and to scorn anyone who opposes it.

    Pure kool-aid dogma.

  • @Toadphillips yep, i compare it to pluggin in to the matrix

  • @Toadphillips , I have learned so much from Dr Paul over the years ..He has my vote in 2012.....

  • @Toadphillips LoL you're so right. Mosaddegh's story sounds very familiar with Gadaffi's.

  • @Toadphillips Thats because the elites cant control this! The Rockefeller's funded the Department of Education and the women's liberation movement in order to tax more of the population and to have the schools raise the kids rather than the parents!

  • @Toadphillips govt schools...go figure

  • Well, Santorum, you just got Ron PWNED!

  • Really....why the fuck isn't this man President?

  • "For every action, there is always an equal and opposite reaction" - Newton's Third Fucking Law!

  • @liOVERLOADil  AMEN! It's ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY AMAZING -- and downright sad -- that so many people -- especially right wing Republicans -- forget that human nature is VERY SIMILAR to the fundamental law of physics that you just cited. When you push people around long enough, sooner or later THEY WILL START PUSHING BACK!

  • Peace and Freedom in 2012.

  • How little Americans know.... I hope Ron Paul can get elected

  • Come on...the first covert operation? Right! You guys are full of shit just like every other news media.  Have you ever heard of "Gunboat Diplomacy" which usually has to do with US dealings with Latin America. Well, that is much the way we have done things and will continue to do things in the world at large.

  • While this video supports Ron Paul's claim about blowback, there are many who question it or who have called it ridiculous. The Iran issue of blowback in 1971 for something that happened in 1953 may seem dubious at first glance. But keep in mind that August 2, 2011, two weeks ago, marks the 21st anniversary of the commencement of the first Gulf War. There are many of us who remember well the images on TV from that war (and I'm just 40). Ron Paul wants a peaceful America - how silly is that?

  • The lamestream media needs to mention this.

  • Spread this clip over twitter, facebook, whatever you can think of

  • Supurb!

  • People of America, WAKE UP!!! Who cares what happened half a century ago? Can't you see where it goes??? To the big fucking Wall Street ASS!!! Really if Ron Paul doesn't win it will have enormous consequences on whole world. Then media will be reporting about world popular uprising not arab awakening.

  • @Madfoot713 Call of Duty was made according to real world and not vice-versa, mate. Where do you live, for fuck sake?????

  • @duski001 /s

  • @duski001 I think he was being sarcastic. XD

  • @Madfoot713Following the Constitution is being a kook? I would love to hear a reply. Ever seen Charlie Wilsons war? That was blowback. All we needed was $3 mill for schools to bring awareness to the 50 percent of their population 14-21 years old.. but nope. We will spend BILLIONS on our OWN INTERESTS, and then instead of doing the right thing, years later, BLOWED RIGHT BACK IN OUR FACES. I am glad you are 91 years old, means you will fucking die soon.

  • @Madfoot713 all actions have consequences at some point. when you get older, you will see this effect for yourself.

  • @Madfoot713 Yep every fight is your fight lol

  • God bless Bill Moyers. Next time you're tempted to trash liberals, think about the services that this man has provided when it comes to no-nonsense, honest journalism.

  • @MikeyRed76

    Yeah right, and next time you trash the boy who cried wolf, remember that one day there really WAS one.

  • @SovereignStatesman I don't understand your statement. I've never trashed anyone and I'm not sure who you're stating is the wolf or the boy. I was just stating that there is a tendency, in our current national dialogue, to go to the ad hominem and attack people only for their political preferences. However, as shown in this video, liberals like Bill Moyers, and the libertarian-minded like Ron Paul, often find common ground; especially when they are of strong, honest character like these men.

  • @MikeyRed76

    I mean that you're a fucking idiot, and that response just removed all doubt.

  • Comment removed

  • @MikeyRed76

    ... he wrote from under a bridge LOL

  • Someone should send this one to Dick Santorum.

  • @introvertical71 Santorum knows - he's just playing to a crowd of idiots to get elected.

    Most Americans simply don't want to hear "your government has done evil things and now you're paying the price for it..."

    People would rather believe in a comfortable lie than the uncomfortable truth.

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  • @fuzzywzhe

    You think he knows?

    I don't.

  • @fuzzywzhe

    "People would rather believe in a comfortable lie than the uncomfortable truth."

    That IS the Truth.

  • Post this to ALL presidential profiles!

  • Several months before 9/11, February 2001, Pres. Bush ordered the bombing of an Islamic country (I forget which one at this moment). And I remember thinking that he shouldn't have done that, and that the people there would probably retaliate. Aka - blowback. Ron Paul is right on target about blowback.

  • Murdering quadaffi's 3 grand children no doubt makes us safer.

  • Why is this video not being shown by NBC/CBS/FOX?

  • Ron Paul's been callin this shit for 30 years

    When will America pay attention?

  • @athabaska you too

  • @kote2 that is for you

  • @both of you below. it is NOT OUR JOB to promote so-called "democracy" around the world. And, apparently you missed the point here. We do NOT go into the middle east to promote your democracy, we go there to steal natural resources so the well connected can grow their wealth. This is against everything this country stands for. Besided, this country was NOT founded as a democracy anyway. It was founded as a Republic.

  • @xXmanusdeiXx "...We do NOT go into the middle east to promote your democracy, we go there to steal natural resources..."

    Translation: we go there for ONE PURPOSE ONLY: TO CONTROL THE OIL. Remember: more than two-thirds of the world's oil reserves are located in the Middle East.

    'Nuff said.

  • And lots of people don't want to hear what Ron Paul has to say because the TRUTH is very harsh and painful for them to swallow. We can't ignore history and pretend it didn't happen.

  • Ron Paul is absolutley correct, you think a country can prance around the world enforcing its agendas and intersts without provoking a negative response? That naive view simply defies all logic and understanding of human motivation. If some group of people kills your family, I dont give a shit how much they seem to be a beacon of "freedom", you're going to want to kill the fuckers, end of story...

  • @ATHABASCKA, seems to me, you're the one with no culture and any ounce of knowledge of history. you're the one excusing american crimes against humanity.

  • I agree with Ron Paul here. Blowback is real. The idea that someone would do these things because they don't like our freedom is actually ridiculous. Take a second to think about it. What will even an American do to get revenge. Even over something stupid a neighbor has done. So someone kills your dad in 1953. You are told it was the U.S. In 1979 you get the chance to return the favor. There is nothing outrageous about that. 26 years is not very long.

  • You all can try and rationalize what the Islamic mass murderers do, and give me a little sob story about what mean old Uncle Sam did 50 fucking years ago, but what you are doing is excusing mass murderers whose only goal is a stone age society, without philosophy, culture, music, women, liberation, or human emancipation of any kind. This is an enemy regardless of what "we" did.

  • @athabascka it's not rationalizing, nor excusing. Let's use your own phrase - murderers. Whenever a murder is committed, the police search for motive. They try to understand what lay behind the murder - what drove this person to commit murder. Motive in this sense means cause that drove the action.

    One can, in the same way, research / investigate terroism to find the motive for those murders. Inevitablly a large part of that motive is blowback from foreign policy. This is indisputable fact.

  • @kote2: What is the implication of Ron Paul saying things like "we need to stop telling them how to live"? That isnt just recognizing their motive, that is sympathizing with them. Why else does Ron Paul hold the positions he holds? He thinks al Qaeda is the victim in this conflict. Because he cares more about opposing his own society, he sympathizes with psychopaths fighting for a totalitarian stone age society. He's on the wrong side.

  • @athabascka No, not at all. He believes thugs and murderers are the villains, not the victims. However he recognizes that by occupying their countries, we cause normal people to become irritated, irritated people to become angry, and angry people to become terrorists. We bolster their ranks by occupying their nations. His position on blowback is not different from the position our own CIA has taken - our interference and military adventurism in the Middle East has unintended consequences.

  • @kote2: I don't care why they are the way they are. Its not just what they do, its what they want. Their goal is a theocratic totalitarian society out of the dark ages. Two things are utterly contemptible about Paul's position. Firstly, he supports peaceful coexistence with murderous totalitarianism. And second, he thinks we should meekly avoid a war with them because we dont want to make them too mad. How pathetic. The world is lucky nobody thought like this in the early 1940s.

  • @athabascka You're missing the point. Who are "they"? A small number of insane, evil men are attracting a large audience and swelling their numbers by referring to our actions in their homes. What are our actions? We occupy their countries, bomb their cities, roll tanks through their neighborhoods, and prop up dictators who frequently arrest people without cause and have them tortured. Our actions make it easy for the small numbers of evil men to radicalize thousands more.

  • @kote2: You say you have a problem with the US supporting dictatorship, but you had the biggest objection of all when we overthrew the worst, most dangerous dictator in the region and replaced it with a democratic system. It was al Qaeda that killed the majority of innocent people, trying to sabotage the democratic process and destroy civil society in Iraq, and as we tried to protect this fragile democracy, you people claimed we were occupying. Again, that is shameful.

  • @athabascka I haven't named my "biggest objection of all," but it appears you're talking about Iraq. The fact is that however evil he was, Hussein was a US ally - the US engineered the first gulf war. Thirteen years later the US engineered the second gulf war. (see truthaboutwar org for documentation) al Qaeda wasn't there until we attacked and occupied the country (Hussein suppressed paramilitary groups with a vengeance) and they were able to infiltrate and start radicalizing people.

  • @athabascka also, regarding dictators - if we raise them up, support them for years, and then throw them down, only to raise someone else, what will the people of that country believe about our actions? I doubt they will believe in our benevolence.

  • @kote2: So now you are saying we shouldnt do the right thing because people wont believe us? Well the Kurds believe us, the marsh Arabs believe us. These people were thrilled with the liberation of Iraq and the bringing of Saddam Hussein to justice. You are citing crimes we committed 30, 40 and 50 years ago. That is all irrelevant now. What matters is that we do the right thing. We abolish dictatorship, promote and protect democracy.

  • @athabascka No - what I am saying is "war is not the right thing to do." The two citations I made (1990 Gulf war and 2003 Iraq war) are from 21 and 8 years ago, respectively, not 30, 40, or 50 - this should show you it is not a new trend or a changing trend. I admire your passion to destroy dictators and uphold democracy - but the right way to do that is to set a good example for other nations to follow.

  • @athabascka If we must include foreign policy in our attempts to beter the world, perhaps we should have a higher standard for nations we engage in commerce with, and leave it at that.

  • @athabascka Sorry I didn't see this sooner. I don't disagree with your idealistic view - it would be wonderful if our government were honest and true and really wanted to abolish dictatorships, and promote and protect democracies. Unfortunately that is just PR and propaganda. We don't promote democracy - we build up dictators who do what we say. When they stop, we call them evil and slap them down, in order to raise another pliant dictator. If you think I am wrong, read, then look at Karzai

  • @kote2: Never did I say our government is honest, true, and really wanted to abolish dictatorships. In fact there are many examples of US supporting war crimes in East Timor, Vietnam, Iraq, Iran, and so on. What I did say is that I supported the Iraq war because it brought a criminal to justice and ended a dictatorship. I don't really care if that isn't the "official" reason. Nobody is obliged to support a position because of the reasons the state gave.

  • @athabascka sounds like "the ends justify the means," but what about "what comes next?" If it is another dictator who turns out to be just as bad in 10 or 20 years, what have we gained?

  • @kote2: "The ends justify the means" You can't hope to create a model secular Western society in a war torn tribal wasteland. The fact is that we have to make these choices all the time. Is this government bad enough to oppose, or not? What are the alternatives? These are the kinds of questions you apparently don't want to ask. We've never sought regime change of a government over corruption. If we were going to bomb Karzai for running a spoils system, we'd have to bomb Chicago too.

  • @athabascka I've asked them, and I have come up with the harder answer. You simply can't create a model, secular, western society via war. The people of that region have to create it