NO ONE HAS OR WILL EVER SEE GOD, EVERYONE SAVED OR NOT WILL SEE ONLY THE MAN JESUS WHEN HE RETURNS NOT A TRINITY, HELLOOO STICK WITH THE SCRIPTURES. WE GIVE ANSWERS FROM SCRIPTURES WITHOUT TELLING YOU SOME STORY IN ORDER TO MAKE IT SOUND LIKE WE JUST READ IT FROM THE SCRIPTURES
HIS OPENING STATEMENT DESCRIBES EXACTLY WHAT WE HAVE BEEN TELLING TRINITARIANS THERE IS ONLY ONE GOD AND HE HAS MANY WAYS IN WHICH HE MANIFEST HIMSELF TO US. AS THE CREATOR WE CALL HIM OUR FATHER, AS GOD MANIFEST IN THE FLESH WE CALL HIM JESUS, AND AS WHAT GODS TRUE NATURE IS A HOLY SPIRIT (NOT A PERSON).
I like how the moderator started out by defying the participants as "persons" debating a view of the "one God"....isn't that a bit ironic. The same language is used in the Trinidad. Doctrine....and shows multiple persons who aren't really persons individuals yet are distinct yet one in nature. Yup...the language clearly shows SEPEREATE entities
Is The Trinity True Or Not? NO. There is many, many scriptures to support Jesus being the one and only, living God, there is maybe one or two if you misread them scriptures that might suggest a trinity. I find it off the wall thinking to conclude there could be a committee of God and his family in heaven, it almost suggest somebody is nuts here on earth to come up with that.
@GTCism Oneness & trinitarianism already affirm that Jesus is God. What you need to show is that God is only 1 Person? I have yet for any unitarian to meet this challenge.
@October31st1517 How about the Old Testiment? When God was creating the Earth, no where does it say he had partners or asked others. God is One. It says that many times in the Bible. Catholics are the one who changed the water baptisms from In the name of Jesus Christ to In the name of The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit. I believe the Spirit that was in Jesus Christ is the spirit that fills us(The Holy Spirit) Jesus is Lord. The One and Only Lord. God Bless you!
@GTCism ...That is absolutely incorrect. Jn.1:1 demonstrates that "the Word" was "with" God , in the Greek that means "face to face", which implies Two entities,(persons) In Jn.1:14, we find that "the Word" was "made flesh",(the incarnation) and we beheld His glory as the"Only begotten" (Gr. monogenes) of the FATHER.
This again posits two entities discussed. In Heb.1:1-2 discusses Two persons, one who is "appointed an Heir", of the other. In verse 5, and 8, we find the ...
..."pre-incarnate Word" being discussed by the Father. In Heb.10:5, and 9 the "Pre-incarnate Word", (in existence as a "separate person" from God the FATHER) testifies and says "sacrifice and offering thou wouldest Not , But a Body hast thou prepared for me", also , "Lo I have come to do THY will, Oh God". All this, together with the passage of Phillipians 2:5-11 profess the fact that there are three separate beings of Deity, in the" Godhead", "there are three that bear record"(1.Jn.5:7)
..."pre-incarnate Word" being discussed by the Father. In Heb.10:5, and 9 the "Pre-incarnate Word", (in existence as a "separate person" from God the FATHER) testifies and says "sacrifice and offering thou wouldest Not , But a Body hast thou prepared for me", also , "Lo I have come to do THY will, Oh God". All this, together with the passage of Phillipians 2:5-11 profess the fact that there are three separate beings of Deity, in the" Godhead", "there are three that bear record"(1.Jn.5:7)
..."pre-incarnate Word" being discussed by the Father. In Heb.10:5, and 9 the "Pre-incarnate Word", (in existence as a "separate person" from God the FATHER) testifies and says "sacrifice and offering thou wouldest Not , But a Body hast thou prepared for me", also , "Lo I have come to do THY will, Oh God". All this, together with the passage of Phillipians 2:5-11 profess the fact that there are three separate beings of Deity, in the" Godhead", "there are three that bear record"(1.Jn.5:7)
@sorens70601 WHOA!!!!!! Please be careful. " three separate beings of Deity, in the" Godhead" is not biblical. The trinity teaches that there are 3 seperate PERSONS who share the same being.
@October31st1517 ...Well bud, it seems to be you that needs to be carefull ! I do Not care what the "trinity" teaches, I care what the Bible teaches, and as a missionary / Bible prophecy teacher, in ministry since 1963, and speaking more than 10 different languages, it might be time for you to "Listen up", and review your understanding in light of the scriptures. The Bible speaks of a "singular Godhead", not a singular God ! Gen.1:26, reveals the "several persons of Deity" discussing the ...
...the "making of Mankind". What was made in the Image of God ? Man was ! What on the Earth testifies to God's eternal power and Godhead, according to Rom.1:19-20 ? The Bible says; "Because that which may be Known of God, is MANIFEST IN THEM...", (that refers to humanity) Are we a " tri-part being" that consist in an "absolute unity" ? Yes we are !! Then as We are the "image, likeness, and similitude" of God, we must accept that God is also an "absolute unity" of Spirit Soul and Body...
...(how be-it a "spirit body") Does a man and woman in marraige become "one Flesh", (as in a "compound unity") Then God the Father, and the Word, and the Holy Spirit, must also be accepted as being a "compound Unity" as declared in the "She'ma". If God intended in the "She'ma" to convey a "singular person" God. Then the Hebrew word "Yachid" (meaning, "the only one") would have been used instead of Heb. "echad", which by the preposition "Elohanoo" is modified from the numeric "one" to that...
...of "compound unity",( or Compound singularity) as is also clear in Mk.12:29, where the word "one" in English, is translated from the Gr. "Heis", (which means "united") This is why Christ said in Jn 8:17-18, that "He qualified" under the Mosaic Law of the Jew's, that the "testimony of Two Men is true". The trinitarian Idea, of "one God, eminating in three persons does not fit "the invisible things of God that are clearly seen" (Rom.1:19-20) The Bible teaches Three separate persons, ....
...each individually "self existent" ( from eternity past) as is clear from Jn.1;1 that "the Word" existes "face to face" with God, yet also was Very Deity ! That's why Phillip. 2:6-7, declares ; 'Who being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God" That's Why God calls Jesus Christ "the shepherd that is My Fellow",in Zech.13:7, and why in Isa 44:6 speaks of himself as the "King of Israel" yet calls Christ,(as a separet person) his "redeemer", but ends by speaking in....
...the end of that same verse in the singular, "beside me there is no God" (referring to their "compound unity")
That is why "Two separate Deities" are worshipped by the same Two "firstfruit groups" ( the "4 living creatures", and the "24 Elders") in Rev.4:9-11, and Rev.5:8-10, One "sitting on the Throne" and worshipped as the "Creator of all things", the other "standing" in the Midst of the 24 elders and 4 Living creatures, and worshipped as "the Redeemer of Mankind". It is these same two ...
..."Deities" that we find in Dan.7:13, (the actual "Glorification of Christ" right after his resurrection) spoken of as Two separate persons, one like unto "the Ancient of Days", and one like unto a "Son of Man". and Two "Him's" are brought before each other. When we get our "ducks in a row", and understand who is "the Creator", and who is "the Redeemer", then such "difficult' passages as Col.1:14-18 clear up easily by simply remembering who is "the Redeemer", verses14, 15, and 18, and who...
...is "the Creator", verses15, and 16. If you read the "Ketuvim Netzarim", this would be "self evident". It is These Three separate beings of Deity, that are referred to in 1.Jn.5:7, as "There are Three that "bear record" in heaven. (the word bear Record, means, to 'Carry a Testimony'. Only "a person" can "carry a testimony", (no office or position qualifies as such) and the scriptures says there are Three of them ! They all testify to Christ's humanity, mentioned as,Father,Word,Holy Spirit.
@October31st1517 ... No, Not at All !! What I am explaining to America's "spiritual cooks" called theologians, is the correct biblical concept of "Tri-unity" of the Godhead , rather than the 'Catholic / Calvinist' "trinity" concept, that you erroneously are "stuck in". Why don't you stop using the "misleading cliche" of "tri-theism" , to erroneously label me on what I teach, ( which is totally scriptural) and rather address the issue of what I have presented, as you will not be able...
...to "poke any holes" in that which I have presented. Your understanding of God , in the "falsehood" of the "trinity", needs to be examined by you, as I already know the truth about this, (and probably knew that before you were a "gleam" in your Daddies eyes) So show me some respect and disseminate the scriptures I have given, and you will come to the same conclusion. There are over 20,000 passages about God in scripture, and you will probably have to spend several months before reply-ing.
...Let me also add, that I am Not a "theologian", and do Not have any "doctorates",(as I considder my learning far beyond the "system" of the "wisdom of theis World" . I am a "Called of God" missionary, and the scriptures teach us in 1.Cor.2, That, "we teach not the things of God according to the 'wisdom' of the World", (Doctorate's, Phd's etc.) but according to God's wisdom, "comparing spiritual things with spiritual".
I also have a "Never before discussed",(by modern theology) ground....
...breaking book, on the "seven orders" of the first resurrection, entitled "None Dare Call It Deception",(copyright 1984) that exposes the "Pre-trib" Rapture theory as a gigantic fraud. This is available on my website . Just google "sorensen ministries" and you will find me. Also in this book I correctly predicted 5 and 6 years before it happened, the Break-up of the Balkans, and the political "fall of Russia", (in a copyrighted work)
....Maybe it is time for true Christians to re-examine what they understand and believe about the "Godhead" , and not to have their "head in the sand", propagating the Catholic falsehood of the "trinity". That cliche' is much more toxic and erroneous than whatever you insinuated with the cliche' "Tri-theism". If you are a serious student of the word, then get in touch, you can "contact" me through my website. Respectfully, Morgan Sorensen
(Mark 10:18) Jesus said to him: “Why do you call me good? Nobody is good, except one, God.
Now, This is Jesus AFTER his Resurrection to Heaven and being enthroned:
(1 Corinthians 15:28) But when all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to everyone.
Even after being raised to heaven Jesus is not God, but subject to
-The Son has a beginning: Pro 8.22-30 (God has never been without wisdom). The Son is not the Father, but he is ANOTHER HIMSELF of the ONE that is the Father (a double): Luke 6.12; John 14.9a “I”, “Me”; the Holy Spirit too: Ro 8.27; John 14.16 “OTHER”.
-Le fils a un début: Pro 8.22-30 (Dieu n'a jamais été sans sagesse). Le Fils n'est pas le Père, mais il est UN AUTRE LUI-MÊME de CELUI qui est le Père (double): Luc 6,12; Jn 14.9a "JE", "M'AS"; le Saint-Esprit également: Ro 8,27; Jn 14,16 "AUTRE".
Jesus is God! Father, Son, Holy Ghost is just attributes of Jesus Christ. The concept of 3 persons in one God, is stupid! To me, it's saying that there are three mini gods up in heaven doing their own thing. Now, Father you go over there, and son, you do this, and Holy spirit you sit here. How PAGAN?
@1089aef "To me, it's saying that there are three mini gods up in heaven doing their own thing." 1st off you are not the authority to go on, the bible is. 2ndly, consider the words of our Lord "“If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him." John 14:23 Who is the WE and the OUR in this verse?
@October31st1517 Explain this then, "I and my Father are one" "he that hath seen me hath seen the Father"
In Genesis the Bible says, "Let US make man in OUR image." God is talking here. Okay if there are three up in heaven, then why did God make only 1 Adam. Why not three? His image right? What exactly is God's image? Since there are three "persons' in the Godhead! Which makes No sense!
@1089aef I will be more than happy to answer your question once you have answered mine. "“If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him." John 14:23 Who is the WE and the OUR in this verse? Don't run. I promise I will not run from your questions.
@October31st1517 I'm not running from anything, and I did answer the question! If Jesus said He was the Father and the Father was in Him, and He created ONE Adam, then John 14:23 means Jesus Christ is the manifestation of Father, but He is still ONE God. In John 5:43 Jesus is saying that He is coming in His father's name. Well, the Bible doesn't give the name of HIS Father, you know why? Father is not a name, Jesus Christ IS a NAME!
@October31st1517 ...meaning the Father is Jesus Christ. There are no "persons" in the Godhead.
I don't always know why the Bible doesn't give a clear answer to things, but I do know the Bible emphasizes the name JESUS CHRIST! HE IS THE ONE GOD AND FATHER OF ALL!!!
By the way, I'm not trying to attack you! I'm trying to say that the trinity is a false doctrine that has been going on forever and no one wants to stop it because it's "TRADITION"
@1089aef It is not tradition that causes us to believe the trinity. It is all over the new testament. I daresay you probably see it also, though you have been taught otherwise. Why are apostolics so hostile to the teachings? Because they are taught to. It fits scripture so much better to say there is one God, and the Father is God, the Son is God, the Holy ghost is God, so, these three are one God. The father sent the Son. The Father loves the Son. So there is a distinction. Relationally.
@1089aef In the beginning the Word was with God, and the Word was God. not a concept. Not a future tense. the Word WAS God. The Word was WITH God. The Father sent the Son . The only way to reconcile this relationship is to keep to the teaching there is only one God, yet , somehow, these three are one. To explain this, we use the word trinity to reconcile the new testament s whole teaching. Oneness invents their own way to reconcile everything, but it is actually much more forced to fit
@1089aef How can one mode love another Do i as a father `love`the I who is a son, or do I as a husband `love`the part of me who is a nephew,NONSENSE. I admit I love myself though, lol.These are roles i play and these roles cannot `love`` each other. Yet the Father loves the Son. This is a relational love and cannot be explained under oneness theology.
@1089aef jesus said the father is greater than I, jesus never said hes was God, on the jesus said at John 5:18, 19 he cannot do anything by his own initiative. he also said why do you call me good. Rev 3:12 jesus reffered the father Jehovah as his God 5 times, he was no longer in the flesh when mentioned these words. jesus also said that he does not know the day or the hour well wait a minute he is either God or hes not, there is no such thing as" in between". do you want a thousand more quot
the Onenes position is not christian. this is not an in house debate among christians. The oneness is a heretic who has never known God, and if the trinitarian shows nastiness in his manner he has never known God either
@2222pauline So what is the difference of Jesus saying that He is Going to His Father and Jesus Going to His brethren? Why do you take 1 literal and the other figurative.
@October31st1517 -- ALLOW me to Show You How the BIBLE works SMART boy I mean that You are smart
1.I"m going to see my Father 2.I"m also going to see my son. 3 I think I well talk to my Girl Friend
Trouble is I am only going ONE PLACE. HOW CAN I DO THAT ? ONE PLACE AND see three persons?
IT s WAL-MART YOU SMART boy they all work there.
but God doesn t work at WAL-MART He s every where at the same time. He can be in a body and everywhere else at the same time. Everwhere and everywhere else
THough I am OLD, I have only seen People come to the TRUTH that are
DILIGENTLY in child like FAITH seeking SALVATION. I PRAY YOU are seeking TRUTH but Mt.13-10 JESUS was asked- why speak in parables, He said to you it is given to know the mysteries, but to them it is not given. And you should know 1Ti 3-16 GREAT is the mystery of GODLINESS GOD was Manifested in the FLESH. MAN doesn t SHOW TRUTH -> GOD DOES WE only point to the DOOR, JESUS said HE was the DOOR too john 10-1;9
@LogosTheos when nouns of the same case are joined by kai "and" and each noun is preceded by the article "the", the second noun expresses A DIFFERENT PERSON, thing, or quality than the first noun. The Father and the Son are distinct.
@SxIjAmS89 You're wrong, and you're right. The Trinity is real, and God is One. Please go read the Bible again. It's not god Jesus Christ, it's God the Son (or the Word) who incarnated as Jesus the Christ. If you pay close attention to the book of Revelation, you'll see that the Lamb is In the Throne of God.
@October31st1517 Let me help you help @SxljAmS89 here. The Son Of Man is *a* man. The Son Of God, being, well, the Son of God, can He be anything else than God? Since there is only one God, God the Father and God the Son are the same God. Not a god, but God. The difference is that you can individualize physical natures (the human nature is individualized in each one of us and so we're different human individuals), but you cannot individualize spiritual beings --- one being for one nature.
Certainly they disbelieve who say: Surely Allah is the third (person) of the three; and there is no god but the one God, and if they desist not from what they say, a painful chastisement shall befall those among them who disbelieve.
74- Will they not then turn to Allah and ask his forgiveness? And Allah is forgiving, Merciful.
The Messiah, so of Marium is but an apostle; apostles before him have indeed passed away and his mother was a truthful women; they both used to eat food. Se how we make the communications clear to them, then behold, how they are turned away.
76- say: Do you serve besides Allah that which does not control for you any harm, or any profit? And allah-he is the hearing, the Knowing.
Job 13:6-10, Will ye accept his PERSON? not PERSONS! Isaiah 40:25, 41:4, 43:3-15, 44:6-8, 24. 45:5-7, 12-19, 21-22. 46:5-10. It's just so much! I just don't see how anybody can go along with the trinity after reading these scriptures. If one goes against these, THEY ARE A FALSE PROPHET. No where does it state anything about three persons in one. The Catholic church came up with that stuff. God is not playing with people bringing forth false doctrine, spreading him into threes. WAKE UP! ONE!
@rossdaboss1959 You are violating a principal of bible study which is we always interpret the OT in light of what is found in the NT. NEVER the reverse. Since Jesus taught us the trinity (John 15:26) it must be accepted. By the way the word PERSON in hebrew can be translated in so many ways (face, faces, presence, person, in the presence of, etc) I hope you are interested in the truth.
@rossdaboss1959 ...Your comment is erroneous, as Job13:8, "names" the singular person, as God ( the Father) as he became known in the N.Testament . In Duet.6.4, ( in the Hebrew language) it is written;
"Shema Yisrael,YHVH elohanoo, YHVH echad" . Literrally translated meaning; "Hear Oh Israel, YHVH our God's,(plural) YHVH is unified" First; you cannot 'unify' a singular entity, Second; the Hebrew word 'elohanoo', is the "absolute plural", of 'elohim'. (which is a uni-plural noun) ....
...such as 'sheep' in English, which can be used pluraly , or in the singular. Thirdly; the Hebrew word "Echad", means "unified". If God intended to convey that there is only 'One person" in the "Godhead",(or as God) then the Hebrew word "Yachid",(as in "the only one" ) would have been used instead of "Echad", (unified) Likewise, the Hebrew word "Elohim", (which can be used 'singularly' ) should have been used in stead of teh absolute plurality of "Elohanoo". This harmonizes with the ...
...Prophet Zechariah, in Chapter 13:6-7, in which Christ is the one asked about the "wounds" in his hands in verse 6, and is called "my shepherd" in verse 7, where God call's Christ , "My Fellow", ( a comrade, or fellow deity) Again in 1. John 5:7-8, we find "three persons" referred to, as "bearing record". In the Greek, this means, to "carry a testimony", (as in a personal witness, such as before a court of law) No single man can go before a Judge, and claim to bring a testimony as ...
...The "Husband of my wife", and then return to give a "second testimony", as the "Father of my children". The judge would call this " un-acceptable lunacy". and in the same vain, verse 8 declares three "different elements"
as the "witness on Earth", (which can never be costrued to be the same) Lastly; Jn. 1:1, declares that "In the beginning was the 'word',(Jesus Christ) "and the 'Word' was 'with' God,(The father, as 'Deity,' and a separate being from the 'Word") ... Much more fact
....and the 'Word', (Jesus Christ ) was God" (was Deity) Much more facts can be given , but it is clear, that 'modalism' (concocted by Sabelius in th fourth century) is an Un-biblical theory, and an Anti-Christly teaching from the pit of Hell. Also, Considder this fact. The devil, (Satan ) will be coming to Earth, (Rev.12) in the latter half of the tribulation, to oversee the conquering of the saints martyrdom under the antichrist, and co complete the "un-holy trinity", Satan-God, ...
...the Anti-Christ-as Son, and the false prophet-as the Holy Spirit. Satan was the "Cherub that covereth" in Heaven before he was made ruler of teh Earth before Adam, Do you think that he possibly knows more about the Trinity he tries to emulate, than what you know ?????
@sorens70601 get filled with the Holy Ghost first, then come back to me. Obey Acts 2:38. It's God's true plan of salvation. Jesus Christ is very soon to come. I don't have time to waste on this. I know Jesus is God.
@rossdaboss1959....You obviously do not know what you are talking about. 2.Jn.9, declares; "He that transgresseth and abideth NOT in the 'doctrine of Christ', HATH NOT God. He that abideth in the 'doctrine
of Christ', hath BOTH the Father and the Son". (Both in English, means two, and this passage deals with
persons of deity) I do not want your fake and powerless "spirit baptism'", neither do I subscribe to your false "baptismal regeneration". You "don't have time", only because I as ..
...a missionary,(tri-une pentecostal) and a linguist, can obliterate your false argument with scripture. Your response has not dealt with the linguistic facts I have presented. Even in the Greek, in Mk. 12:29, the word "one" Lord, uses the Gr. "Heis" which means "United". So in the Greek it says "UNITED" and in the Hebrew
of Deat.6:4, it says "UNIFIED", what do you think God is trying to convey here ? It is obvious that God is declaring a "Compound unity" ( a plurality of persons, ....
...unified into a singular Godhead. Your very next comment /question, about Jesus declaring God the Father "greater than I", proves this fact. they are equal in their nature as deity, but are not equal in Authority.
This is clear from Dan.7:13, where Two persons, "one like a Son of Man" is brought before "the Ancient of days", and to make sure we understand, the prophet Daniel refers to them as two separate entities, as in; "they brought him before him". (two 'Him's") Your folley is Not..
...nescessarily that you do not understand how to read English, but that you are "blinded" by the "spirit of deception". The scriptures declare in 2.Jn.9 that if you transgress "the doctrine of Christ", you have Not God.
If you 'abide' in the doctrine of Christ, you have "both the father and the Son". (both , in english means two, and the referrence is to two persons, not offices, or positions) Truth is; you are in a deceptive Satanic Cult, called UPC or APOSTOLICS, and on your way to Hell.
@sorens70601 Just one thing, If Jesus the son is equal to the father in a trinity, then why did Jesus say i go to the father for he is greater then i.
Britannica Encyclopedia 11th edition Vol 3 Pages 365-366, The baptismal formula was changed from the name of Jesus Christ to the words, Father, Son, and Holy Ghost by the Catholic church in the second century. That's why NOBODY was ever baptized in the titles in the Bible. I want to see just one person baptized in the titles. Man can't changed God's word. How can u believe in something like that, with no scriptures or proof? The early church only used Jesus name. Colossians 3:17. Acts 2:38
@rossdaboss1959 ...Your asserion about the Encyclopedia Brittanica 11th edition, proves the Encyclopedia to be in ERROR, as No Catholic Church existed in the second century, only the church of Rome. The Zionist's only "created' the 'Catholic Chuch' in A.D. 586-87, and have controlled it ever since !!!!
It's very simple when it comes to the "trinity". There are two things God CANNOT do. Titus 1:2 says, "God...cannot lie". In fact Hebrews 6:18 says, "it is impossible for God to lie", and Habakkuk 1:12 says, "Are you not from long ago, O Jehovah? O my God, my Holy One, you do not die."
Now, didn't Christ die for our sins? Yes he did. So, if Jesus is God then he lied to us.
bro william branham said oneness and trinity is BOTH wrong! he said when you get it in between these 2 schools of thought you will get it just exactly. of course 2ness is wrong like the mormons and jehovah witness preach too
bro branham taught that Jesus was a DUAL person OR Father and Son YOKED together OR Father and Son inseperable
bro william branham said oneness and trinity is BOTH wrong! he said when you get it in between these 2 schools of thought you will get it just exactly. of course 2ness is wrong like the mormons and jehovah witness preach too
bro branham taught that Jesus was a DUAL person OR Father and Son YOKED together OR Father and Son inseperable
The bottom line is, Jesus never said he was equal or the same as GOD, and he never mentioned the trinity doctrine! Jesus was clear, that the true GOD is the Father(Most High).
All of the teachings, power, authority etc... comes from the Father(Yahweh), He alone is the Most High over all the earth! Psalm.83:18, Matt.11:25
Jesus said, eternal life is to know You(Yahweh), the only true GOD and Jesus Christ, the One that You sent forth! John.17:3
@epic103 If Jesus never claimed to be God, then why did the Jews want to stone Hime in John 8:58? Inasfar as Jesus never metioning the doctrine of the trinity, then what is He talking about in John 15:26 or Matt 28:19? You CANNOT take the name "Christian" to yourself if you deny this essential of the faith.
Those Jews(Pharisee) wanted to stone Jesus no matter what Jesus said! Remember, Jesus was a threat to the Jewish leaders so they wanted to turn the people against Jesus and get rid of him! They rejected Jesus as the Christ!!!
But Jesus himself never made himself equal with GOD, it was the Jewish leaders they made those claims, not Jesus!!!
Plus, John.15:26 and Matt.28:19 doesn't prove the trinity!!! Jesus made clear that the Father(Most High) is the true GOD!!!
@October31st1517 JESUS never said 'before Abraham was, I am!' That was a false accusation that the Jews tried to use against Jesus to stone him to death. While Jesus defended himself, he told the Jews exactly what he said, so they did not stone him.
John 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
JESUS said! " I SAID, I am the son of Yahweh [God]!" Trinitarians need to listen to JESUS for Real!
@epic103 To me, Jesus was fully man and fully God. Colossians 3:17, In him dwelt all the fullness of the GODHEAD BODILY. Isaiah 9:6, The everlasting Father. 1 Timothy 3:16, God was manifest in the flesh, Matthews 1:23, they shall call his name Immanuel, God with us. There's only one God. Isaiah 40:25, To whom then will ye liken me, or shall I be equal? saith the Holy One. When Jesus was crying out to the Father, the human side of him cried out. God bless you!
2 Peter 1:17 For he received honor and glory from God the Father when that voice was conveyed to him by the Majestic Glory, saying, “This is my Son, my Beloved, with whom I am well pleased.” (NRSV) See also John 6:27 and Ephesians 4:6
John 1:1-14 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. . Verse 14 tells us ‘the word’ is Jesus.
Colossians 1:15-19 also tells us Jesus created everything. Hebrews 1:6 tells us that the angels worship Jesus as God. In Phil 2:5-6 tells us that Jesus temporarily gave up his equality with the father to become human. See also John 5:17-18;10:33
Acts 5:3-4 Peter asked, “why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back part of the proceeds of the land? While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, were not the proceeds at your disposal? How is it that you have contrived this deed in your heart? You did not lie to us but to God!”
They are both wrong, and right. Right that the Trinitarian says there are 3 persons distinct from each other, and for the Oneness that God is one person. They are both false for holding that Jesus is God, that kills both arguments.
Who do the cults say Jesus is? (Jehovah witnesses) the Archangel Michael (Mormons) one god of many, brother of Lucifer (Theosophy) an Incarnated world soul (Bahai) one of 9 manifestations of Divinity (Spiritists) an advanced Medium (Unitarians) an extraordinary good man (Who do Christians say Jesus is?) God the son, second person of the Trinity. In conclusion we can confidently state in the scripture Jesus is God manifested in the flesh. See 1 Timothy 3:16.
If JESUS was not GOD he would have REBUKED Thomas for BLASFEMY!!!As the Mosaic Law commanded them to do (Leviticus 24:15).
Jhn 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
So Jesus accepted worship as an act of religious honor. Jesus' own teachings would absolutely forbid this, if He was just a man, even if He was a great prophet.
@October31st1517 Yes, if we are required to believe something it needs to be in the bible - this should be common sense. Are we required to believe Yahshua is the Messiah - YES its in the bible. Are we required to believe he is the son of God - YES its in the bible, are we required to believe in a trinity, triune god, etc. Its not in the bible - if we were required to believe then it would be taught and the words (greek philosophy) would be in the NT buts it not there.
I have a quick question for you guys.... Who was supposed to be the Messiah? a normal person with mistakes and errors or God himself? I'm going to believe you already did your research and conclude that Jesus is God. John 14.6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."
“But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, Though you are little among the thousands of Judah, Yet out of you shall come forth to Me The One to be Ruler in Israel, Whose goings forth are from of old, From everlasting.” (Micah 5:2)
@October31st1517 Interesting you quote Micah 5 yet dont read in context - Read Micah 5:4 - and He shall stand and shepherd his flock in the strength of Yahweh, in the majesty of the Name of Yahweh HIS GOD.
@gustavovallejos So the Anointed One (messiah) is GOD? Then who is Saul - 1Sam 24:6, 2Sam 1:14. Who is Cyrus - Isaiah 45:1. These are both mashiachs (anointed = messiahs) of GOD. I can already see you did not do your research and dont realize anyone anointed by GOD to rule is the Messiah - Moses, Samuel, Saul, David, Solomon, Cyrus, etc. Now Yahshua - The only difference is Yahshua is now immortal unlike all the other kings who died. Firsborn from the dead and LAST king.
@markpaghi Off course I did my research... I stick with my answer Jesus is God, the son, the second person of the trinity. If you read thru the comments posted and research what is true and what is not, you will come to know the Truth... if you're just trying to win an argument , well good luck, I'm not up for that... God bless you
@gustavovallejos You just said the Messiah was supposed to be God himself - above comments - which is totally false - David, Saul, Cyrus, etc. ALL are mashiach (anointed) just like Yahshua Ha Mashiach. Yahshua being called Messiah is definitely NOT calling him GOD, which is what you said - Therefore I said you did not research that comment very well. I dont believe in Luck - i have my Belt On Tight (Eph 6:14)
@markpaghi Look I will be doing wrong if I argue the significance of that word, also I will be wrong if I don't tell the truth... so please read John 20 the whole chapter...and also read Matthew 26 again the whole chapter... God bless you!!
@gustavovallejos I did read John 20 and Matt 26 - Did you read John 20:17 and 31? Did you read Matt 26:63? Regardless, the title of Messiah - anointed - is for Kings apoointed by GOD to reign - he anoints them with the spirit and with power - enabling them to fulfill GODs commands - Acts 10:38.
@markpaghi In revelations you will find a phrase that repeats quite a bit and it is "Whoever has ears, let them hear"... There was a reason what I asked to read the whole chapter so you understand the whole situation... you asked me to read John 20.17 which just said the Jesus is calling God to the Father but if you keep on reading there are at least couple times Jesus was called Lord, and one more thing if Jesus was not God how did he do what verse 21 says..."Whoever has ears, let them hear"
@gustavovallejos Yes i read the whole chapter - do you have ears to hear? John 20:17 And to quote you "which just said Jesus is calling God to the Father" That is not what the verse says - It says This is eternal life, that they may know YOU the ONLY TRUE GOD - AND Yahsua the Messiah WHO YOU SENT. He called the FAther the Only True God, not what you said. Once again, Calling Messiah lord does not mean he is Yahweh - lord is adon in hebrew, name for kings, rulers, All men. What do you mean How?
@markpaghi You're missing my point... see you can deny the Scriptures based on one verse... you have to research what the context was and if there is something else in Scriptures that supports your idea. Read what Jesus answered to Caiaphas, or what Thomas said to Him after His resurrection... have you ever asked yourself why the Pharisees where trying kill Jesus?...when I quoted "Whoever has ears, let them hear" I wasn't trying to offend you just trying to make you research...
@gustavovallejos I have read everything you mentioned multiple times over - I was a trinitarian when i started going to church - this is taught as orthodox - why do you think everyone believes it? Because the church taught them that it was true and they see it in scripture - With trinity glasses you see it everywhere - I will never return to the lies and deceit of the pagan churches who teach God became a man and died on a cross - BLASPHEMY.
@October31st1517 Does it Matter? Ive been to several churches - i mean which one do you want to know? When i first started going to church it was a Protestant Chapel - All Saints - I have also been to Episcopal, Baptist, Messianic Jewish Synagogues, Non Denominational churches, etc. etc. So i guess pick which one you want - The trinity as I have stated before - The Father is not the son, the son is not the holy spirit, the holy spirit is not the Father but they are all One - Co equal Co eternal
@October31st1517 God is three persons, not three Gods, Trinitarians profess belief in One God that is three separate persons but all Equally and Fully Eternal GOD. God the Son came to earth, taking on flesh and became a man - he is Fully man but also Fully GOD - he never ceased to be GOD or subtracted his Divine Nature - he ADDED human nature TO divine nature - He is Fully GOD, yet Fully MAN - this is how he can pray to the FAther and still be GOD because he is also fully MAN. (Homoousia)
@October31st1517 The Father created all things through the Word - who trinitarians believe is Yahushua - the second person in the Triune godhead - in whom the Fullness of Diety dwelt bodily - thus making him Fully God and Man - The spirit was also at work in creation (spirit moved on the face of the water) and the spirit is not an impersonal force - but a Person separate from Father and Son yet Fully GOD himself. The godhead works in unity. And the Messiah is in hypostatic union (human and GOD)
@October31st1517 We can liken the trinity of GOD to the fundamental element of water - H20 - Water has three forms - solid, liquid, and gas - they may be separate at times but they are always water (h20) much like the persons of the godhead being separate but still GOD. The messiah was born of a virgin and escaped the sinful human nature of man through Adam - thus enabling him to live sinless - Father eternally Begot the Son (God of God)- Spirit proceeds from Father and Son. *This is the TRINITY
@loveroflife365 A Unitarian is someone who believes that God is one person. A Binitarian is someone who believes God is 2 persons. A trinitarian (which is the historic position) is someone who believes God is 3 persons. Please don't take this as an insult but you do not seem to be very educated in theologies or their positions. Perhaps you should study these positions before you critique them.
@aadammahdi That is because you are ASSUMING unitarianism. You are ASSUMING God is 1 person. What you need to show is that MONOTHEISM is UNITARIANISM. As Christians we believe that the 1 True God is 3 persons. Something called trinitarianism which is strictly monotheistic.
@October31st1517 brother god is not a person form.I ask u wht hapnd 2 th followers of earlier prophets? same think hapend to the followers of Jesus(pbuh). Idol worshipors also having same argument. Yu jst go thru Abraham the prophet (pbuh) who denayd idols. can yu argue on the basis of book of god bible? dnt yu see the changes in versions of bibles by man? yu pls think.. im not there to argue. Evn for material benefit v ar redy 2 serch authentic sorce, then y not 4 a supreme matter?
If Jesus was GOD, then how come in John 1:18 he said "No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the FATHER'S side, has made HIM known." Where do you see Trinity in this Verse?
If Jesus was GOD, then how come in John 5:37 he said "And the FATHER who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard HIS voice nor seen HIS form," Jesus and the GOD are different. People heard Jesus, but never heard GOD.
WORSE ONENESS OPENING EVER... "Just keep in mind, my opponent is wrong, okay people..." He's supposed to state his position, that's IT! He's already expressing an opinion about his opponent, he's already using scripture, he's already defending his position rather than just stating it... my goodness.
I am of an Apostolic background, but leaning more to Pentecostal belief of Father, Son & Holy Spirit. I too believe in One God who manifest Himself as Father, Son & Holy Spirit. It all stems from me learning the name Elohim (Plural). In the beginning was the Word and the word was WITH God. One cannot be with himself. God sent the Son, One cannot send himself. Jesus died on the cross. God raised Him up. The oneness guy seems to agree with Mark toward the end, and contradicts his belief, it seems
The word "trinity" is used to describe the biblically revealed truth that the one true God is three eternal and coequal persons the same in substance.
Those who cry "impossible" where the trinity of God or a similar event of the supernatural is concerned must compare its chemical counterpart in the natural world.(H2O)
In simple terms, the Triple Point is when the Temperature and Pressure conditions are in perfect balance so that a substance can exist simultaneously in all three phases.
There is no recorded use in any ancient language in the BC period, or in the classical Roman or Greek period where the pronoun WE is ever equivelant to I.
We = MORE THAN ONE even in todays language you don't have to be a scholar to understand that us means more than 1:)
@celioabatti You need a GODsent preacher in your life to explain.."This is a great mystery:but I speak concerning Christ and the church"Eph5:32...how Christ is the spirit whom is the Bridegroom..mark2:19-20 and Husbandman st.john15:1...the Lamb's wife(the church) rev21:9...the Son(flesh) with the Father(GOD) indwelling him is the "True vine" st.john15:1...it is GOD(Father) that was in the Son(flesh),not a second spirit named the "Son" that came in the flesh...pray for revelation of the mystery
Both the Jehovah’s Witnesses (who deny the deity of Christ) and the United Pentecostals (also known as “Apostolics” or “Jesus Only”), who affirm the deity of Christ, teach erroneously about the two separate personages of the Heavenly Father and the Lord Jesus. ; while the United Pentecostals will argue that the Father and Son are the same person. Much doctrinal confusion, to say the least, has been created by these groups and their teachings.
If you believe Jesus is the person of the Father, then you are also going to have to believe that Jesus sent himself into this world:
What about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, “I am God’s Son”? (John 10:36)
As you sent me into the world, I have sent them into the world. (John 17:18)
@celioabatti Did Jesus send himself? lets ask this question..Do trinity believe that Father is God..yes..Do trinity believe that the Son is God.. yes...So the question your asking me is the question you should be asking yourself..now to stop the confusion let me help you...Did GOD(father) send the Son?...YES...the child that was born of Mary was the Son of the Highest...the question that you foul up is ...who is the divine spirit that is inside the Son st.john14:10...cont
@celioabatti you have not answered earlier questions..why is power given to the Son st.matt28:18...if co-equal trinity exist then he shouldnt have to be given anything,he already has the power right? st.john17:2 "thou has GIVEN him power over all flesh" if one gives it to another that means one did not always have that power..I worship the ONE that always had the power for he is the power(Father) so if im going to say JESUSCHRIST is GOD then im saying he is the Father..
NO ONE HAS OR WILL EVER SEE GOD, EVERYONE SAVED OR NOT WILL SEE ONLY THE MAN JESUS WHEN HE RETURNS NOT A TRINITY, HELLOOO STICK WITH THE SCRIPTURES. WE GIVE ANSWERS FROM SCRIPTURES WITHOUT TELLING YOU SOME STORY IN ORDER TO MAKE IT SOUND LIKE WE JUST READ IT FROM THE SCRIPTURES
Ilovjas 1 week ago
HIS OPENING STATEMENT DESCRIBES EXACTLY WHAT WE HAVE BEEN TELLING TRINITARIANS THERE IS ONLY ONE GOD AND HE HAS MANY WAYS IN WHICH HE MANIFEST HIMSELF TO US. AS THE CREATOR WE CALL HIM OUR FATHER, AS GOD MANIFEST IN THE FLESH WE CALL HIM JESUS, AND AS WHAT GODS TRUE NATURE IS A HOLY SPIRIT (NOT A PERSON).
Ilovjas 1 week ago
Of course it is true. The Curch teaches it and Jesus taught it. It is revealed truth and there's no way to question it.
Fetrovsky 2 months ago
I like how the moderator started out by defying the participants as "persons" debating a view of the "one God"....isn't that a bit ironic. The same language is used in the Trinidad. Doctrine....and shows multiple persons who aren't really persons individuals yet are distinct yet one in nature. Yup...the language clearly shows SEPEREATE entities
diggadoo12 3 months ago
Is The Trinity True Or Not? NO. There is many, many scriptures to support Jesus being the one and only, living God, there is maybe one or two if you misread them scriptures that might suggest a trinity. I find it off the wall thinking to conclude there could be a committee of God and his family in heaven, it almost suggest somebody is nuts here on earth to come up with that.
GTCism 4 months ago
@GTCism Oneness & trinitarianism already affirm that Jesus is God. What you need to show is that God is only 1 Person? I have yet for any unitarian to meet this challenge.
October31st1517 4 months ago
@October31st1517 How about the Old Testiment? When God was creating the Earth, no where does it say he had partners or asked others. God is One. It says that many times in the Bible. Catholics are the one who changed the water baptisms from In the name of Jesus Christ to In the name of The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit. I believe the Spirit that was in Jesus Christ is the spirit that fills us(The Holy Spirit) Jesus is Lord. The One and Only Lord. God Bless you!
babipassion25 3 months ago
@GTCism ...That is absolutely incorrect. Jn.1:1 demonstrates that "the Word" was "with" God , in the Greek that means "face to face", which implies Two entities,(persons) In Jn.1:14, we find that "the Word" was "made flesh",(the incarnation) and we beheld His glory as the"Only begotten" (Gr. monogenes) of the FATHER.
This again posits two entities discussed. In Heb.1:1-2 discusses Two persons, one who is "appointed an Heir", of the other. In verse 5, and 8, we find the ...
sorens70601 3 months ago
..."pre-incarnate Word" being discussed by the Father. In Heb.10:5, and 9 the "Pre-incarnate Word", (in existence as a "separate person" from God the FATHER) testifies and says "sacrifice and offering thou wouldest Not , But a Body hast thou prepared for me", also , "Lo I have come to do THY will, Oh God". All this, together with the passage of Phillipians 2:5-11 profess the fact that there are three separate beings of Deity, in the" Godhead", "there are three that bear record"(1.Jn.5:7)
sorens70601 3 months ago
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..."pre-incarnate Word" being discussed by the Father. In Heb.10:5, and 9 the "Pre-incarnate Word", (in existence as a "separate person" from God the FATHER) testifies and says "sacrifice and offering thou wouldest Not , But a Body hast thou prepared for me", also , "Lo I have come to do THY will, Oh God". All this, together with the passage of Phillipians 2:5-11 profess the fact that there are three separate beings of Deity, in the" Godhead", "there are three that bear record"(1.Jn.5:7)
sorens70601 3 months ago
..."pre-incarnate Word" being discussed by the Father. In Heb.10:5, and 9 the "Pre-incarnate Word", (in existence as a "separate person" from God the FATHER) testifies and says "sacrifice and offering thou wouldest Not , But a Body hast thou prepared for me", also , "Lo I have come to do THY will, Oh God". All this, together with the passage of Phillipians 2:5-11 profess the fact that there are three separate beings of Deity, in the" Godhead", "there are three that bear record"(1.Jn.5:7)
sorens70601 3 months ago
@sorens70601 WHOA!!!!!! Please be careful. " three separate beings of Deity, in the" Godhead" is not biblical. The trinity teaches that there are 3 seperate PERSONS who share the same being.
October31st1517 3 months ago
@October31st1517 ...Well bud, it seems to be you that needs to be carefull ! I do Not care what the "trinity" teaches, I care what the Bible teaches, and as a missionary / Bible prophecy teacher, in ministry since 1963, and speaking more than 10 different languages, it might be time for you to "Listen up", and review your understanding in light of the scriptures. The Bible speaks of a "singular Godhead", not a singular God ! Gen.1:26, reveals the "several persons of Deity" discussing the ...
sorens70601 3 months ago
...the "making of Mankind". What was made in the Image of God ? Man was ! What on the Earth testifies to God's eternal power and Godhead, according to Rom.1:19-20 ? The Bible says; "Because that which may be Known of God, is MANIFEST IN THEM...", (that refers to humanity) Are we a " tri-part being" that consist in an "absolute unity" ? Yes we are !! Then as We are the "image, likeness, and similitude" of God, we must accept that God is also an "absolute unity" of Spirit Soul and Body...
sorens70601 3 months ago
...(how be-it a "spirit body") Does a man and woman in marraige become "one Flesh", (as in a "compound unity") Then God the Father, and the Word, and the Holy Spirit, must also be accepted as being a "compound Unity" as declared in the "She'ma". If God intended in the "She'ma" to convey a "singular person" God. Then the Hebrew word "Yachid" (meaning, "the only one") would have been used instead of Heb. "echad", which by the preposition "Elohanoo" is modified from the numeric "one" to that...
sorens70601 3 months ago
...of "compound unity",( or Compound singularity) as is also clear in Mk.12:29, where the word "one" in English, is translated from the Gr. "Heis", (which means "united") This is why Christ said in Jn 8:17-18, that "He qualified" under the Mosaic Law of the Jew's, that the "testimony of Two Men is true". The trinitarian Idea, of "one God, eminating in three persons does not fit "the invisible things of God that are clearly seen" (Rom.1:19-20) The Bible teaches Three separate persons, ....
sorens70601 3 months ago
...each individually "self existent" ( from eternity past) as is clear from Jn.1;1 that "the Word" existes "face to face" with God, yet also was Very Deity ! That's why Phillip. 2:6-7, declares ; 'Who being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God" That's Why God calls Jesus Christ "the shepherd that is My Fellow",in Zech.13:7, and why in Isa 44:6 speaks of himself as the "King of Israel" yet calls Christ,(as a separet person) his "redeemer", but ends by speaking in....
sorens70601 3 months ago
...the end of that same verse in the singular, "beside me there is no God" (referring to their "compound unity")
That is why "Two separate Deities" are worshipped by the same Two "firstfruit groups" ( the "4 living creatures", and the "24 Elders") in Rev.4:9-11, and Rev.5:8-10, One "sitting on the Throne" and worshipped as the "Creator of all things", the other "standing" in the Midst of the 24 elders and 4 Living creatures, and worshipped as "the Redeemer of Mankind". It is these same two ...
sorens70601 3 months ago
..."Deities" that we find in Dan.7:13, (the actual "Glorification of Christ" right after his resurrection) spoken of as Two separate persons, one like unto "the Ancient of Days", and one like unto a "Son of Man". and Two "Him's" are brought before each other. When we get our "ducks in a row", and understand who is "the Creator", and who is "the Redeemer", then such "difficult' passages as Col.1:14-18 clear up easily by simply remembering who is "the Redeemer", verses14, 15, and 18, and who...
sorens70601 3 months ago
...is "the Creator", verses15, and 16. If you read the "Ketuvim Netzarim", this would be "self evident". It is These Three separate beings of Deity, that are referred to in 1.Jn.5:7, as "There are Three that "bear record" in heaven. (the word bear Record, means, to 'Carry a Testimony'. Only "a person" can "carry a testimony", (no office or position qualifies as such) and the scriptures says there are Three of them ! They all testify to Christ's humanity, mentioned as,Father,Word,Holy Spirit.
sorens70601 3 months ago
@sorens70601 What you are proposing is TRI-Theism. This is heretical. There is only 1 God who is 3 distinct persons. (John 15:26)
October31st1517 3 months ago
@October31st1517 ... No, Not at All !! What I am explaining to America's "spiritual cooks" called theologians, is the correct biblical concept of "Tri-unity" of the Godhead , rather than the 'Catholic / Calvinist' "trinity" concept, that you erroneously are "stuck in". Why don't you stop using the "misleading cliche" of "tri-theism" , to erroneously label me on what I teach, ( which is totally scriptural) and rather address the issue of what I have presented, as you will not be able...
sorens70601 3 months ago
...to "poke any holes" in that which I have presented. Your understanding of God , in the "falsehood" of the "trinity", needs to be examined by you, as I already know the truth about this, (and probably knew that before you were a "gleam" in your Daddies eyes) So show me some respect and disseminate the scriptures I have given, and you will come to the same conclusion. There are over 20,000 passages about God in scripture, and you will probably have to spend several months before reply-ing.
sorens70601 3 months ago
...Let me also add, that I am Not a "theologian", and do Not have any "doctorates",(as I considder my learning far beyond the "system" of the "wisdom of theis World" . I am a "Called of God" missionary, and the scriptures teach us in 1.Cor.2, That, "we teach not the things of God according to the 'wisdom' of the World", (Doctorate's, Phd's etc.) but according to God's wisdom, "comparing spiritual things with spiritual".
I also have a "Never before discussed",(by modern theology) ground....
sorens70601 3 months ago
...breaking book, on the "seven orders" of the first resurrection, entitled "None Dare Call It Deception",(copyright 1984) that exposes the "Pre-trib" Rapture theory as a gigantic fraud. This is available on my website . Just google "sorensen ministries" and you will find me. Also in this book I correctly predicted 5 and 6 years before it happened, the Break-up of the Balkans, and the political "fall of Russia", (in a copyrighted work)
sorens70601 3 months ago
....Maybe it is time for true Christians to re-examine what they understand and believe about the "Godhead" , and not to have their "head in the sand", propagating the Catholic falsehood of the "trinity". That cliche' is much more toxic and erroneous than whatever you insinuated with the cliche' "Tri-theism". If you are a serious student of the word, then get in touch, you can "contact" me through my website. Respectfully, Morgan Sorensen
sorens70601 3 months ago
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This is jesus while on earth as a human talking:
(Mark 10:18) Jesus said to him: “Why do you call me good? Nobody is good, except one, God.
Now, This is Jesus AFTER his Resurrection to Heaven and being enthroned:
(1 Corinthians 15:28) But when all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to everyone.
Even after being raised to heaven Jesus is not God, but subject to
letusreason1234 4 months ago
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-The Son has a beginning: Pro 8.22-30 (God has never been without wisdom). The Son is not the Father, but he is ANOTHER HIMSELF of the ONE that is the Father (a double): Luke 6.12; John 14.9a “I”, “Me”; the Holy Spirit too: Ro 8.27; John 14.16 “OTHER”.
-Le fils a un début: Pro 8.22-30 (Dieu n'a jamais été sans sagesse). Le Fils n'est pas le Père, mais il est UN AUTRE LUI-MÊME de CELUI qui est le Père (double): Luc 6,12; Jn 14.9a "JE", "M'AS"; le Saint-Esprit également: Ro 8,27; Jn 14,16 "AUTRE".
BibleFrW 5 months ago
Jesus is God! Father, Son, Holy Ghost is just attributes of Jesus Christ. The concept of 3 persons in one God, is stupid! To me, it's saying that there are three mini gods up in heaven doing their own thing. Now, Father you go over there, and son, you do this, and Holy spirit you sit here. How PAGAN?
1089aef 6 months ago
@1089aef "To me, it's saying that there are three mini gods up in heaven doing their own thing." 1st off you are not the authority to go on, the bible is. 2ndly, consider the words of our Lord "“If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him." John 14:23 Who is the WE and the OUR in this verse?
October31st1517 6 months ago
@October31st1517 Explain this then, "I and my Father are one" "he that hath seen me hath seen the Father"
In Genesis the Bible says, "Let US make man in OUR image." God is talking here. Okay if there are three up in heaven, then why did God make only 1 Adam. Why not three? His image right? What exactly is God's image? Since there are three "persons' in the Godhead! Which makes No sense!
1089aef 6 months ago
@1089aef I will be more than happy to answer your question once you have answered mine. "“If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him." John 14:23 Who is the WE and the OUR in this verse? Don't run. I promise I will not run from your questions.
October31st1517 6 months ago
@October31st1517 I'm not running from anything, and I did answer the question! If Jesus said He was the Father and the Father was in Him, and He created ONE Adam, then John 14:23 means Jesus Christ is the manifestation of Father, but He is still ONE God. In John 5:43 Jesus is saying that He is coming in His father's name. Well, the Bible doesn't give the name of HIS Father, you know why? Father is not a name, Jesus Christ IS a NAME!
1089aef 6 months ago
@October31st1517 ...meaning the Father is Jesus Christ. There are no "persons" in the Godhead.
I don't always know why the Bible doesn't give a clear answer to things, but I do know the Bible emphasizes the name JESUS CHRIST! HE IS THE ONE GOD AND FATHER OF ALL!!!
By the way, I'm not trying to attack you! I'm trying to say that the trinity is a false doctrine that has been going on forever and no one wants to stop it because it's "TRADITION"
1089aef 6 months ago
@1089aef It is not tradition that causes us to believe the trinity. It is all over the new testament. I daresay you probably see it also, though you have been taught otherwise. Why are apostolics so hostile to the teachings? Because they are taught to. It fits scripture so much better to say there is one God, and the Father is God, the Son is God, the Holy ghost is God, so, these three are one God. The father sent the Son. The Father loves the Son. So there is a distinction. Relationally.
musicmusing 5 months ago
@1089aef In the beginning the Word was with God, and the Word was God. not a concept. Not a future tense. the Word WAS God. The Word was WITH God. The Father sent the Son . The only way to reconcile this relationship is to keep to the teaching there is only one God, yet , somehow, these three are one. To explain this, we use the word trinity to reconcile the new testament s whole teaching. Oneness invents their own way to reconcile everything, but it is actually much more forced to fit
musicmusing 5 months ago
@1089aef How can one mode love another Do i as a father `love`the I who is a son, or do I as a husband `love`the part of me who is a nephew,NONSENSE. I admit I love myself though, lol.These are roles i play and these roles cannot `love`` each other. Yet the Father loves the Son. This is a relational love and cannot be explained under oneness theology.
musicmusing 5 months ago
@musicmusing WHAT!!!!!
1089aef 5 months ago
@1089aef I am saying the Father loves the Son. in oneness theology, this means the spirit loves the flesh??!!!! WHAT!!!!
musicmusing 5 months ago
@1089aef jesus said the father is greater than I, jesus never said hes was God, on the jesus said at John 5:18, 19 he cannot do anything by his own initiative. he also said why do you call me good. Rev 3:12 jesus reffered the father Jehovah as his God 5 times, he was no longer in the flesh when mentioned these words. jesus also said that he does not know the day or the hour well wait a minute he is either God or hes not, there is no such thing as" in between". do you want a thousand more quot
RAMIREZ3408 5 months ago
@RAMIREZ3408 the Word WAS God.
musicmusing 5 months ago
@1089aef Wow, you clearly do not know the scriptures. You would do good to watch all 12 parts to this debate before making such statements.
PressingTowards1 5 months ago
the Onenes position is not christian. this is not an in house debate among christians. The oneness is a heretic who has never known God, and if the trinitarian shows nastiness in his manner he has never known God either
Strefanasha 8 months ago
The Oneness guy started out with an ad hominem attack in his opening statement.
brown547 8 months ago
YEP
2222pauline 8 months ago
@2222pauline So what is the difference of Jesus saying that He is Going to His Father and Jesus Going to His brethren? Why do you take 1 literal and the other figurative.
October31st1517 8 months ago
@October31st1517
GOT ME confused? explain
2222pauline 8 months ago
@October31st1517 -- ALLOW me to Show You How the BIBLE works SMART boy I mean that You are smart
1.I"m going to see my Father 2.I"m also going to see my son. 3 I think I well talk to my Girl Friend
Trouble is I am only going ONE PLACE. HOW CAN I DO THAT ? ONE PLACE AND see three persons?
IT s WAL-MART YOU SMART boy they all work there.
but God doesn t work at WAL-MART He s every where at the same time. He can be in a body and everywhere else at the same time. Everwhere and everywhere else
2222pauline 7 months ago
@October31st1517 You trinity boys LIMIT Who He is by saying. 1 God in 3 PERSONs
LIKE GOD need 3 PERSONs. You can t HANDLE one God what makes you think you can handle THREE.
Remember THIS I didn t even Use the Bible to PROVE You INCORRECT. SMART BOY
2222pauline 7 months ago
REMEMBER MARk I watched the video. I know Your VIEW of GOD John 17-5 John 14-12
One God BODY -SOUL -SPIRIT who else would he be going to ? and who else would he talk to?
Remember when GOD talked to Paul on the ROAD ? Paul said --who art thou L-O-R-D?
and a Voice said I am JESUS whom MARK persecutious. Why do you do this MARK ?
2222pauline 7 months ago
You ask the name of the God JESUS was praying to--> John 17-5
JESUS was praying to JESUS and I told you he sent JESUS
it s posted on my page look learn be humble.
if you don t believe it see the- Hand see the -NAIL
BODY-SOUL SPIRIT or FATHER -SON-HOLY GHOST
you be the lawyer I ONLY point to the ----->DOOR that s JESUS toooooooooo
WALK in set a while enjoy TRUTH cool breeze holy ghost you know
Don t be so STIFF NECKED bend with the breeze
2222pauline 8 months ago
@2222pauline So when Jesus said I am going to the Father (John 14:12) He was going to Himself?
October31st1517 8 months ago
THough I am OLD, I have only seen People come to the TRUTH that are
DILIGENTLY in child like FAITH seeking SALVATION. I PRAY YOU are seeking TRUTH but Mt.13-10 JESUS was asked- why speak in parables, He said to you it is given to know the mysteries, but to them it is not given. And you should know 1Ti 3-16 GREAT is the mystery of GODLINESS GOD was Manifested in the FLESH. MAN doesn t SHOW TRUTH -> GOD DOES WE only point to the DOOR, JESUS said HE was the DOOR too john 10-1;9
2222pauline 8 months ago
JOhn 17-5 BODY of GOD speaking to the SOUL of GOD
just like MATT 28-19 there is ONE NAME, HE is the FATHER , HE is the SON, HE is the Holy Ghost.
ONE GOD Col 3-17 do ALL in the NAME of --JESUS
YEP he was praying to HimSelf-and He also sent HimSelf
john 14-6 SPIRIT of TRUTH
2222pauline 8 months ago
2 Ti 3-7 NEVER ABLE to come to the knowlege -of the TRUTH
2 Ti 3-8 resist the TRUTH,men of CORRUPT MINDS
reprobate concerning THE FAITH.
I REALLY WEEP for trinity people at the altar on my knees because - HE IS
and you so resist who -- HE IS
GIVE ME -- JESUS - you can have the other -2 - I AM complete in HIM
2222pauline 8 months ago
@2222pauline Stop preaching and start answering questions. What is the name of the God Jesus is praying to in John 17:5?
October31st1517 8 months ago
apply Granville Sharp Greek Grammer rule six to 1 John 2:22 and 2 John 1:9 and tell me these are distinct persons.
LogosTheos 8 months ago
@LogosTheos when nouns of the same case are joined by kai "and" and each noun is preceded by the article "the", the second noun expresses A DIFFERENT PERSON, thing, or quality than the first noun. The Father and the Son are distinct.
October31st1517 8 months ago
@October31st1517
KEEP THE OTHER- 2- just GIVE ME----> JESUS
1 TI 3-16
2222pauline 8 months ago
@SxIjAmS89 You're wrong, and you're right. The Trinity is real, and God is One. Please go read the Bible again. It's not god Jesus Christ, it's God the Son (or the Word) who incarnated as Jesus the Christ. If you pay close attention to the book of Revelation, you'll see that the Lamb is In the Throne of God.
Fetrovsky 9 months ago
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For it pleased GOD for all the fullness to dwell in him(Jesus). Col.1:19
Grace be unto you, and peace, from GOD our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. We give thanks to the GOD and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. Col.1:2,3
Our GOD is the Father(Yahweh).
epic103 9 months ago
@SxIjAmS89 1. What does the term Son of Man mean?
2. What does the term Son of God mean?
October31st1517 11 months ago
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@October31st1517 Let me help you help @SxljAmS89 here. The Son Of Man is *a* man. The Son Of God, being, well, the Son of God, can He be anything else than God? Since there is only one God, God the Father and God the Son are the same God. Not a god, but God. The difference is that you can individualize physical natures (the human nature is individualized in each one of us and so we're different human individuals), but you cannot individualize spiritual beings --- one being for one nature.
Fetrovsky 9 months ago
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(Surah-5-the maidah-vs-73)
Certainly they disbelieve who say: Surely Allah is the third (person) of the three; and there is no god but the one God, and if they desist not from what they say, a painful chastisement shall befall those among them who disbelieve.
74- Will they not then turn to Allah and ask his forgiveness? And Allah is forgiving, Merciful.
quranresponse 1 year ago
(Surah-5-the maidah-vs-75)
The Messiah, so of Marium is but an apostle; apostles before him have indeed passed away and his mother was a truthful women; they both used to eat food. Se how we make the communications clear to them, then behold, how they are turned away.
76- say: Do you serve besides Allah that which does not control for you any harm, or any profit? And allah-he is the hearing, the Knowing.
quranresponse 1 year ago
@quranresponse Sorry, but the Koran is not inspired by God because Mohammed fails the test for prophethood. Christians have the truth. You don't.
October31st1517 1 year ago
Job 13:6-10, Will ye accept his PERSON? not PERSONS! Isaiah 40:25, 41:4, 43:3-15, 44:6-8, 24. 45:5-7, 12-19, 21-22. 46:5-10. It's just so much! I just don't see how anybody can go along with the trinity after reading these scriptures. If one goes against these, THEY ARE A FALSE PROPHET. No where does it state anything about three persons in one. The Catholic church came up with that stuff. God is not playing with people bringing forth false doctrine, spreading him into threes. WAKE UP! ONE!
rossdaboss1959 1 year ago
@rossdaboss1959 You are violating a principal of bible study which is we always interpret the OT in light of what is found in the NT. NEVER the reverse. Since Jesus taught us the trinity (John 15:26) it must be accepted. By the way the word PERSON in hebrew can be translated in so many ways (face, faces, presence, person, in the presence of, etc) I hope you are interested in the truth.
October31st1517 1 year ago
@rossdaboss1959 ...Your comment is erroneous, as Job13:8, "names" the singular person, as God ( the Father) as he became known in the N.Testament . In Duet.6.4, ( in the Hebrew language) it is written;
"Shema Yisrael,YHVH elohanoo, YHVH echad" . Literrally translated meaning; "Hear Oh Israel, YHVH our God's,(plural) YHVH is unified" First; you cannot 'unify' a singular entity, Second; the Hebrew word 'elohanoo', is the "absolute plural", of 'elohim'. (which is a uni-plural noun) ....
sorens70601 9 months ago in playlist McCalip/McNeil Debate on Trinity and Jesus Only 1993
...such as 'sheep' in English, which can be used pluraly , or in the singular. Thirdly; the Hebrew word "Echad", means "unified". If God intended to convey that there is only 'One person" in the "Godhead",(or as God) then the Hebrew word "Yachid",(as in "the only one" ) would have been used instead of "Echad", (unified) Likewise, the Hebrew word "Elohim", (which can be used 'singularly' ) should have been used in stead of teh absolute plurality of "Elohanoo". This harmonizes with the ...
sorens70601 9 months ago in playlist McCalip/McNeil Debate on Trinity and Jesus Only 1993
...Prophet Zechariah, in Chapter 13:6-7, in which Christ is the one asked about the "wounds" in his hands in verse 6, and is called "my shepherd" in verse 7, where God call's Christ , "My Fellow", ( a comrade, or fellow deity) Again in 1. John 5:7-8, we find "three persons" referred to, as "bearing record". In the Greek, this means, to "carry a testimony", (as in a personal witness, such as before a court of law) No single man can go before a Judge, and claim to bring a testimony as ...
sorens70601 9 months ago in playlist McCalip/McNeil Debate on Trinity and Jesus Only 1993
...The "Husband of my wife", and then return to give a "second testimony", as the "Father of my children". The judge would call this " un-acceptable lunacy". and in the same vain, verse 8 declares three "different elements"
as the "witness on Earth", (which can never be costrued to be the same) Lastly; Jn. 1:1, declares that "In the beginning was the 'word',(Jesus Christ) "and the 'Word' was 'with' God,(The father, as 'Deity,' and a separate being from the 'Word") ... Much more fact
sorens70601 9 months ago in playlist McCalip/McNeil Debate on Trinity and Jesus Only 1993
....and the 'Word', (Jesus Christ ) was God" (was Deity) Much more facts can be given , but it is clear, that 'modalism' (concocted by Sabelius in th fourth century) is an Un-biblical theory, and an Anti-Christly teaching from the pit of Hell. Also, Considder this fact. The devil, (Satan ) will be coming to Earth, (Rev.12) in the latter half of the tribulation, to oversee the conquering of the saints martyrdom under the antichrist, and co complete the "un-holy trinity", Satan-God, ...
sorens70601 9 months ago in playlist McCalip/McNeil Debate on Trinity and Jesus Only 1993
...the Anti-Christ-as Son, and the false prophet-as the Holy Spirit. Satan was the "Cherub that covereth" in Heaven before he was made ruler of teh Earth before Adam, Do you think that he possibly knows more about the Trinity he tries to emulate, than what you know ?????
sorens70601 9 months ago in playlist McCalip/McNeil Debate on Trinity and Jesus Only 1993
@sorens70601 get filled with the Holy Ghost first, then come back to me. Obey Acts 2:38. It's God's true plan of salvation. Jesus Christ is very soon to come. I don't have time to waste on this. I know Jesus is God.
rossdaboss1959 9 months ago
@rossdaboss1959 Do trinitarians believe that Jesus is God?
October31st1517 9 months ago
@rossdaboss1959....You obviously do not know what you are talking about. 2.Jn.9, declares; "He that transgresseth and abideth NOT in the 'doctrine of Christ', HATH NOT God. He that abideth in the 'doctrine
of Christ', hath BOTH the Father and the Son". (Both in English, means two, and this passage deals with
persons of deity) I do not want your fake and powerless "spirit baptism'", neither do I subscribe to your false "baptismal regeneration". You "don't have time", only because I as ..
sorens70601 9 months ago in playlist McCalip/McNeil Debate on Trinity and Jesus Only 1993
...a missionary,(tri-une pentecostal) and a linguist, can obliterate your false argument with scripture. Your response has not dealt with the linguistic facts I have presented. Even in the Greek, in Mk. 12:29, the word "one" Lord, uses the Gr. "Heis" which means "United". So in the Greek it says "UNITED" and in the Hebrew
of Deat.6:4, it says "UNIFIED", what do you think God is trying to convey here ? It is obvious that God is declaring a "Compound unity" ( a plurality of persons, ....
sorens70601 9 months ago in playlist McCalip/McNeil Debate on Trinity and Jesus Only 1993
...unified into a singular Godhead. Your very next comment /question, about Jesus declaring God the Father "greater than I", proves this fact. they are equal in their nature as deity, but are not equal in Authority.
This is clear from Dan.7:13, where Two persons, "one like a Son of Man" is brought before "the Ancient of days", and to make sure we understand, the prophet Daniel refers to them as two separate entities, as in; "they brought him before him". (two 'Him's") Your folley is Not..
sorens70601 9 months ago in playlist McCalip/McNeil Debate on Trinity and Jesus Only 1993
...nescessarily that you do not understand how to read English, but that you are "blinded" by the "spirit of deception". The scriptures declare in 2.Jn.9 that if you transgress "the doctrine of Christ", you have Not God.
If you 'abide' in the doctrine of Christ, you have "both the father and the Son". (both , in english means two, and the referrence is to two persons, not offices, or positions) Truth is; you are in a deceptive Satanic Cult, called UPC or APOSTOLICS, and on your way to Hell.
sorens70601 9 months ago in playlist McCalip/McNeil Debate on Trinity and Jesus Only 1993
@sorens70601 Just one thing, If Jesus the son is equal to the father in a trinity, then why did Jesus say i go to the father for he is greater then i.
rossdaboss1959 9 months ago
Britannica Encyclopedia 11th edition Vol 3 Pages 365-366, The baptismal formula was changed from the name of Jesus Christ to the words, Father, Son, and Holy Ghost by the Catholic church in the second century. That's why NOBODY was ever baptized in the titles in the Bible. I want to see just one person baptized in the titles. Man can't changed God's word. How can u believe in something like that, with no scriptures or proof? The early church only used Jesus name. Colossians 3:17. Acts 2:38
rossdaboss1959 1 year ago
@rossdaboss1959 ...Your asserion about the Encyclopedia Brittanica 11th edition, proves the Encyclopedia to be in ERROR, as No Catholic Church existed in the second century, only the church of Rome. The Zionist's only "created' the 'Catholic Chuch' in A.D. 586-87, and have controlled it ever since !!!!
sorens70601 9 months ago
It's very simple when it comes to the "trinity". There are two things God CANNOT do. Titus 1:2 says, "God...cannot lie". In fact Hebrews 6:18 says, "it is impossible for God to lie", and Habakkuk 1:12 says, "Are you not from long ago, O Jehovah? O my God, my Holy One, you do not die."
Now, didn't Christ die for our sins? Yes he did. So, if Jesus is God then he lied to us.
JehovahGodsWitness 1 year ago
religion = mental illness
luxfair 1 year ago
Moe, Larry and Curly.
yeshuahfullofit 1 year ago
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bro william branham said oneness and trinity is BOTH wrong! he said when you get it in between these 2 schools of thought you will get it just exactly. of course 2ness is wrong like the mormons and jehovah witness preach too
bro branham taught that Jesus was a DUAL person OR Father and Son YOKED together OR Father and Son inseperable
dieselcowboy777 1 year ago
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bro william branham said oneness and trinity is BOTH wrong! he said when you get it in between these 2 schools of thought you will get it just exactly. of course 2ness is wrong like the mormons and jehovah witness preach too
bro branham taught that Jesus was a DUAL person OR Father and Son YOKED together OR Father and Son inseperable
dieselcowboy777 1 year ago
The bottom line is, Jesus never said he was equal or the same as GOD, and he never mentioned the trinity doctrine! Jesus was clear, that the true GOD is the Father(Most High).
All of the teachings, power, authority etc... comes from the Father(Yahweh), He alone is the Most High over all the earth! Psalm.83:18, Matt.11:25
Jesus said, eternal life is to know You(Yahweh), the only true GOD and Jesus Christ, the One that You sent forth! John.17:3
There is no trinity!!!
epic103 1 year ago
@epic103 If Jesus never claimed to be God, then why did the Jews want to stone Hime in John 8:58? Inasfar as Jesus never metioning the doctrine of the trinity, then what is He talking about in John 15:26 or Matt 28:19? You CANNOT take the name "Christian" to yourself if you deny this essential of the faith.
October31st1517 1 year ago
@October31st1517
Those Jews(Pharisee) wanted to stone Jesus no matter what Jesus said! Remember, Jesus was a threat to the Jewish leaders so they wanted to turn the people against Jesus and get rid of him! They rejected Jesus as the Christ!!!
But Jesus himself never made himself equal with GOD, it was the Jewish leaders they made those claims, not Jesus!!!
Plus, John.15:26 and Matt.28:19 doesn't prove the trinity!!! Jesus made clear that the Father(Most High) is the true GOD!!!
epic103 1 year ago
@epic103 "But Jesus himself never made himself equal with GOD, it was the Jewish leaders they made those claims, not Jesus!!!"
Uh...Wrong. It was St. John's assesment of the situation, not the Jews.
"...but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God."
John 5:18
Why are you trying to rob Jesus of His divinity. The bible is clear, you just won't accept it.
October31st1517 1 year ago
@October31st1517 JESUS never said 'before Abraham was, I am!' That was a false accusation that the Jews tried to use against Jesus to stone him to death. While Jesus defended himself, he told the Jews exactly what he said, so they did not stone him.
John 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
JESUS said! " I SAID, I am the son of Yahweh [God]!" Trinitarians need to listen to JESUS for Real!
upNyaBizznizz 1 year ago
@epic103 To me, Jesus was fully man and fully God. Colossians 3:17, In him dwelt all the fullness of the GODHEAD BODILY. Isaiah 9:6, The everlasting Father. 1 Timothy 3:16, God was manifest in the flesh, Matthews 1:23, they shall call his name Immanuel, God with us. There's only one God. Isaiah 40:25, To whom then will ye liken me, or shall I be equal? saith the Holy One. When Jesus was crying out to the Father, the human side of him cried out. God bless you!
rossdaboss1959 1 year ago
The Father is God:
2 Peter 1:17 For he received honor and glory from God the Father when that voice was conveyed to him by the Majestic Glory, saying, “This is my Son, my Beloved, with whom I am well pleased.” (NRSV) See also John 6:27 and Ephesians 4:6
celioabatti 1 year ago
@celioabatti
Therefore go and make DISCIPLES of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit(Matthew 28:19)
the name of the Father - God - TRUTH (John 17:17)
the name of the Son - Jesus -the way to the Father- TRUTH and life(John 14:6)
the name of the Holy Spirit - Spirit of TRUTH(John 14:16-17,26; 16:7,8,13)
They are all three in one name: THE TRUTH.
May God bless you in truth.
holyspiritoftruth 1 year ago
@holyspiritoftruth
Amen brother!
celioabatti 1 year ago
The Son is God:
John 1:1-14 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. . Verse 14 tells us ‘the word’ is Jesus.
Colossians 1:15-19 also tells us Jesus created everything. Hebrews 1:6 tells us that the angels worship Jesus as God. In Phil 2:5-6 tells us that Jesus temporarily gave up his equality with the father to become human. See also John 5:17-18;10:33
celioabatti 1 year ago
The Holy Spirit is God:
Acts 5:3-4 Peter asked, “why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back part of the proceeds of the land? While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, were not the proceeds at your disposal? How is it that you have contrived this deed in your heart? You did not lie to us but to God!”
celioabatti 1 year ago 2
They are both wrong, and right. Right that the Trinitarian says there are 3 persons distinct from each other, and for the Oneness that God is one person. They are both false for holding that Jesus is God, that kills both arguments.
nilhav 1 year ago
THE WORD WAS GOD BEFORE IT BECAME FLESH (JOHN1:1)
Phl 2:6 Who, BEING in the form of GOD, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Phl 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
(NOTICE made himself of no reputation in GREEK means He DISROBED HIMSELF or in Plain language Undressed HIMSELF)
celioabatti 1 year ago 4
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Jhn 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
celioabatti 1 year ago
celioabatti 1 year ago
@celioabatti Praise the Eternal incarnate Word
October31st1517 1 year ago
@October31st1517
Amen Brother!
celioabatti 1 year ago
@celioabatti
Your view is cultic, no different from Hindusim. God is not a man, and another person is another God. So idolatry is cultic.
nilhav 1 year ago
@nilhav
Ok Bill 9 The science guy!
celioabatti 1 year ago
If JESUS was not GOD he would have REBUKED Thomas for BLASFEMY!!!As the Mosaic Law commanded them to do (Leviticus 24:15).
Jhn 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
So Jesus accepted worship as an act of religious honor. Jesus' own teachings would absolutely forbid this, if He was just a man, even if He was a great prophet.
celioabatti 1 year ago
@celioabatti The issue is not whether Jesus is God or not. He most definatley is. But He is not God the Father.
October31st1517 1 year ago
@October31st1517
We all know Jesus is NOT the Father, the problem today is that all the cults deny his divinity.
celioabatti 1 year ago
@Jthetinman So in order for something to be true, the word needs to show up in the bible?
October31st1517 1 year ago
@October31st1517 Yes, if we are required to believe something it needs to be in the bible - this should be common sense. Are we required to believe Yahshua is the Messiah - YES its in the bible. Are we required to believe he is the son of God - YES its in the bible, are we required to believe in a trinity, triune god, etc. Its not in the bible - if we were required to believe then it would be taught and the words (greek philosophy) would be in the NT buts it not there.
markpaghi 1 year ago
I have a quick question for you guys.... Who was supposed to be the Messiah? a normal person with mistakes and errors or God himself? I'm going to believe you already did your research and conclude that Jesus is God. John 14.6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."
gustavovallejos 1 year ago
@gustavovallejos Let's let the bible answer that question:
“But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, Though you are little among the thousands of Judah, Yet out of you shall come forth to Me The One to be Ruler in Israel, Whose goings forth are from of old, From everlasting.” (Micah 5:2)
Looks like your right. Jesus is God.
October31st1517 1 year ago
@October31st1517 Interesting you quote Micah 5 yet dont read in context - Read Micah 5:4 - and He shall stand and shepherd his flock in the strength of Yahweh, in the majesty of the Name of Yahweh HIS GOD.
markpaghi 1 year ago
@gustavovallejos So the Anointed One (messiah) is GOD? Then who is Saul - 1Sam 24:6, 2Sam 1:14. Who is Cyrus - Isaiah 45:1. These are both mashiachs (anointed = messiahs) of GOD. I can already see you did not do your research and dont realize anyone anointed by GOD to rule is the Messiah - Moses, Samuel, Saul, David, Solomon, Cyrus, etc. Now Yahshua - The only difference is Yahshua is now immortal unlike all the other kings who died. Firsborn from the dead and LAST king.
markpaghi 1 year ago
@markpaghi Off course I did my research... I stick with my answer Jesus is God, the son, the second person of the trinity. If you read thru the comments posted and research what is true and what is not, you will come to know the Truth... if you're just trying to win an argument , well good luck, I'm not up for that... God bless you
gustavovallejos 1 year ago
@gustavovallejos You just said the Messiah was supposed to be God himself - above comments - which is totally false - David, Saul, Cyrus, etc. ALL are mashiach (anointed) just like Yahshua Ha Mashiach. Yahshua being called Messiah is definitely NOT calling him GOD, which is what you said - Therefore I said you did not research that comment very well. I dont believe in Luck - i have my Belt On Tight (Eph 6:14)
markpaghi 1 year ago
@markpaghi Look I will be doing wrong if I argue the significance of that word, also I will be wrong if I don't tell the truth... so please read John 20 the whole chapter...and also read Matthew 26 again the whole chapter... God bless you!!
gustavovallejos 1 year ago
@gustavovallejos I did read John 20 and Matt 26 - Did you read John 20:17 and 31? Did you read Matt 26:63? Regardless, the title of Messiah - anointed - is for Kings apoointed by GOD to reign - he anoints them with the spirit and with power - enabling them to fulfill GODs commands - Acts 10:38.
markpaghi 1 year ago
@markpaghi In revelations you will find a phrase that repeats quite a bit and it is "Whoever has ears, let them hear"... There was a reason what I asked to read the whole chapter so you understand the whole situation... you asked me to read John 20.17 which just said the Jesus is calling God to the Father but if you keep on reading there are at least couple times Jesus was called Lord, and one more thing if Jesus was not God how did he do what verse 21 says..."Whoever has ears, let them hear"
gustavovallejos 1 year ago
@gustavovallejos Yes i read the whole chapter - do you have ears to hear? John 20:17 And to quote you "which just said Jesus is calling God to the Father" That is not what the verse says - It says This is eternal life, that they may know YOU the ONLY TRUE GOD - AND Yahsua the Messiah WHO YOU SENT. He called the FAther the Only True God, not what you said. Once again, Calling Messiah lord does not mean he is Yahweh - lord is adon in hebrew, name for kings, rulers, All men. What do you mean How?
markpaghi 1 year ago
@markpaghi You're missing my point... see you can deny the Scriptures based on one verse... you have to research what the context was and if there is something else in Scriptures that supports your idea. Read what Jesus answered to Caiaphas, or what Thomas said to Him after His resurrection... have you ever asked yourself why the Pharisees where trying kill Jesus?...when I quoted "Whoever has ears, let them hear" I wasn't trying to offend you just trying to make you research...
gustavovallejos 1 year ago
@gustavovallejos I have read everything you mentioned multiple times over - I was a trinitarian when i started going to church - this is taught as orthodox - why do you think everyone believes it? Because the church taught them that it was true and they see it in scripture - With trinity glasses you see it everywhere - I will never return to the lies and deceit of the pagan churches who teach God became a man and died on a cross - BLASPHEMY.
markpaghi 1 year ago
@markpaghi Really? What denomination did
you belong to as atrinitarian, and what does the doctrine teach?
October31st1517 1 year ago
@October31st1517 Does it Matter? Ive been to several churches - i mean which one do you want to know? When i first started going to church it was a Protestant Chapel - All Saints - I have also been to Episcopal, Baptist, Messianic Jewish Synagogues, Non Denominational churches, etc. etc. So i guess pick which one you want - The trinity as I have stated before - The Father is not the son, the son is not the holy spirit, the holy spirit is not the Father but they are all One - Co equal Co eternal
markpaghi 1 year ago
@October31st1517 God is three persons, not three Gods, Trinitarians profess belief in One God that is three separate persons but all Equally and Fully Eternal GOD. God the Son came to earth, taking on flesh and became a man - he is Fully man but also Fully GOD - he never ceased to be GOD or subtracted his Divine Nature - he ADDED human nature TO divine nature - He is Fully GOD, yet Fully MAN - this is how he can pray to the FAther and still be GOD because he is also fully MAN. (Homoousia)
markpaghi 1 year ago
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markpaghi 1 year ago
@October31st1517 The Father created all things through the Word - who trinitarians believe is Yahushua - the second person in the Triune godhead - in whom the Fullness of Diety dwelt bodily - thus making him Fully God and Man - The spirit was also at work in creation (spirit moved on the face of the water) and the spirit is not an impersonal force - but a Person separate from Father and Son yet Fully GOD himself. The godhead works in unity. And the Messiah is in hypostatic union (human and GOD)
markpaghi 1 year ago
@October31st1517 We can liken the trinity of GOD to the fundamental element of water - H20 - Water has three forms - solid, liquid, and gas - they may be separate at times but they are always water (h20) much like the persons of the godhead being separate but still GOD. The messiah was born of a virgin and escaped the sinful human nature of man through Adam - thus enabling him to live sinless - Father eternally Begot the Son (God of God)- Spirit proceeds from Father and Son. *This is the TRINITY
markpaghi 1 year ago
@loveroflife365 PREACH BROTHER! it is always interesting to hear someone explain how one God has three personages.
ST8URCASE 1 year ago
@loveroflife365 A Unitarian is someone who believes that God is one person. A Binitarian is someone who believes God is 2 persons. A trinitarian (which is the historic position) is someone who believes God is 3 persons. Please don't take this as an insult but you do not seem to be very educated in theologies or their positions. Perhaps you should study these positions before you critique them.
October31st1517 1 year ago
@loveroflife365 Again, What does the term "Son of God" mean? You cannot ASSUME that unitarianism is monotheism.
October31st1517 1 year ago
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jesus peace be upon him.
aadammahdi 1 year ago
If Jesus was GOD, then why in Isaiah 11:2-3 GOD had put the spirit of fearing GOD in Jesus?
If Jesus was GOD, then why in John 5:31 Jesus told his followers that if he (Jesus) bears witness of himself, then his record is not true?
If Jesus was GOD, then why in John 5:30 Jesus told his followers that he can't do a single thing of his own initiative
aadammahdi 1 year ago
@aadammahdi That is because you are ASSUMING unitarianism. You are ASSUMING God is 1 person. What you need to show is that MONOTHEISM is UNITARIANISM. As Christians we believe that the 1 True God is 3 persons. Something called trinitarianism which is strictly monotheistic.
October31st1517 1 year ago
@October31st1517 brother god is not a person form.I ask u wht hapnd 2 th followers of earlier prophets? same think hapend to the followers of Jesus(pbuh). Idol worshipors also having same argument. Yu jst go thru Abraham the prophet (pbuh) who denayd idols. can yu argue on the basis of book of god bible? dnt yu see the changes in versions of bibles by man? yu pls think.. im not there to argue. Evn for material benefit v ar redy 2 serch authentic sorce, then y not 4 a supreme matter?
aadammahdi 1 year ago
If Jesus was GOD, then why did he pray to his GOD in Luke 5:16?
If Jesus was GOD, then why in Matthew 26:39 Jesus fell on his face and prayed to his GOD?
If Jesus was GOD, then why in John 18:38 he didn't reply when he was asked about the truth?
aadammahdi 1 year ago
If Jesus was GOD, then why in John 5:36-38 Jesus said that GOD had assigned him (Jesus) work and GOD is a witness on Jesus?
If Jesus was GOD, then why in John 5:32 Jesus told his followers that they have never seen GOD at anytime nor ever heard his voice
aadammahdi 1 year ago
If Jesus was GOD, then how come in John 1:18 he said "No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the FATHER'S side, has made HIM known." Where do you see Trinity in this Verse?
aadammahdi 1 year ago
If Jesus was GOD, then how come in Hebrew 5:7 he prayed and cried for GOD to hear him and give him mercy by saving him from death?
aadammahdi 1 year ago
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If Jesus was GOD, then how come in John 5:37 he said "And the FATHER who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard HIS voice nor seen HIS form," Jesus and the GOD are different. People heard Jesus, but never heard GOD.
aadammahdi 1 year ago
WORSE ONENESS OPENING EVER... "Just keep in mind, my opponent is wrong, okay people..." He's supposed to state his position, that's IT! He's already expressing an opinion about his opponent, he's already using scripture, he's already defending his position rather than just stating it... my goodness.
littleman684 1 year ago
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Now that is a trinity if the world really wants the real thing, but I Know GOD ia ONE GOD and created the heavens ALONE BY HIMSELF.
He walked in ADAM and EVE, they fell, so GOD planned to become a man in the fullness of time called Jesus.
Jesus is the only almighty God, and serves as mediator, advocate, until the 1000 yrs then HE will be what he always been One GOD IN CHRIST.
That is what I see in the spirit..
HARLANGENEPARROTT 1 year ago
I am of an Apostolic background, but leaning more to Pentecostal belief of Father, Son & Holy Spirit. I too believe in One God who manifest Himself as Father, Son & Holy Spirit. It all stems from me learning the name Elohim (Plural). In the beginning was the Word and the word was WITH God. One cannot be with himself. God sent the Son, One cannot send himself. Jesus died on the cross. God raised Him up. The oneness guy seems to agree with Mark toward the end, and contradicts his belief, it seems
ashyguy34 1 year ago
@ashyguy34 Amen
celioabatti 1 year ago
The word "trinity" is used to describe the biblically revealed truth that the one true God is three eternal and coequal persons the same in substance.
Those who cry "impossible" where the trinity of God or a similar event of the supernatural is concerned must compare its chemical counterpart in the natural world.(H2O)
In simple terms, the Triple Point is when the Temperature and Pressure conditions are in perfect balance so that a substance can exist simultaneously in all three phases.
celioabatti 1 year ago
There is no recorded use in any ancient language in the BC period, or in the classical Roman or Greek period where the pronoun WE is ever equivelant to I.
We = MORE THAN ONE even in todays language you don't have to be a scholar to understand that us means more than 1:)
celioabatti 1 year ago 4
Does the BIBLE call the Father GOD? YES
Does the BIBLE call the Son GOD?YES
Does the BIBLE call the Holy Spirit GOD? YES
IT is? so simple, yet there is so much nonsense.
celioabatti 1 year ago
@celioabatti You need a GODsent preacher in your life to explain.."This is a great mystery:but I speak concerning Christ and the church"Eph5:32...how Christ is the spirit whom is the Bridegroom..mark2:19-20 and Husbandman st.john15:1...the Lamb's wife(the church) rev21:9...the Son(flesh) with the Father(GOD) indwelling him is the "True vine" st.john15:1...it is GOD(Father) that was in the Son(flesh),not a second spirit named the "Son" that came in the flesh...pray for revelation of the mystery
bo74146 1 year ago
@bo74146 Don't you understand that the WORD WAS GOD BEFORE IT BECAME FLESH(JOHN1:1)
Phl 2:6 Who, BEING in the form of GOD, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Phl 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
(NOTICE made himself of no reputation in GREEK means He DISROBED HIMSELF or in Plain language Undressed HIMSELF)
celioabatti 1 year ago 6
Both the Jehovah’s Witnesses (who deny the deity of Christ) and the United Pentecostals (also known as “Apostolics” or “Jesus Only”), who affirm the deity of Christ, teach erroneously about the two separate personages of the Heavenly Father and the Lord Jesus. ; while the United Pentecostals will argue that the Father and Son are the same person. Much doctrinal confusion, to say the least, has been created by these groups and their teachings.
Two Separate Persons—Plurality
celioabatti 1 year ago 2
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Did Jesus Pray to Himself?
Furthermore, Jesus prayed to the Father. This also shows he can’t be the Father. If he was, then he prayed to himself, which is ludicrous:
Jesus called out with a loud voice, “Father, into your hands I commit my spirit.” When he had said this, he breathed his last. (Luke 23:46)
After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed: “Father, the time has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you.” (John 17:1)
celioabatti 1 year ago 3
Did Jesus Send Himself?
If you believe Jesus is the person of the Father, then you are also going to have to believe that Jesus sent himself into this world:
What about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, “I am God’s Son”? (John 10:36)
As you sent me into the world, I have sent them into the world. (John 17:18)
celioabatti 1 year ago 3
@celioabatti Did Jesus send himself? lets ask this question..Do trinity believe that Father is God..yes..Do trinity believe that the Son is God.. yes...So the question your asking me is the question you should be asking yourself..now to stop the confusion let me help you...Did GOD(father) send the Son?...YES...the child that was born of Mary was the Son of the Highest...the question that you foul up is ...who is the divine spirit that is inside the Son st.john14:10...cont
bo74146 1 year ago
@celioabatti you have not answered earlier questions..why is power given to the Son st.matt28:18...if co-equal trinity exist then he shouldnt have to be given anything,he already has the power right? st.john17:2 "thou has GIVEN him power over all flesh" if one gives it to another that means one did not always have that power..I worship the ONE that always had the power for he is the power(Father) so if im going to say JESUSCHRIST is GOD then im saying he is the Father..
bo74146 1 year ago
The scriptural facts. There are at least seven scriptural facts that reveal the Triune God.
God is uniquely one—Isa. 44:6; 1Cor. 8:4,6.
God is triune—Gen. 1:26; Matt. 28:19; 2 Cor. 13:14.
All three are God—1 Pet. 1:2; Heb. 1:8; Acts 5:3-4.
All three are eternal—Isa. 9:6; John 1:1; Heb. 9:14.
All three exist at the same time—Matt.3:16-17.
All three are one—John