While I realise this is a fairly old video you may find searching for the “Quantum Machine Gun” thought experiment intriguing. It basically hypothesises that in the case of the Schrodinger's Cat experiment with you being the cat you will always experience the reality in which you were not killed whereas an outside observer has the possibility of seeing you die/live in their reality, one of the possible implications of this is Quantum Immortality.
Whats are the limits on how we can collapse wave-functions (and possible allow us limited free will) and what if there is a "privileged observer" that can choose when and how to collapse wave-functions? If the Copenhagen interpretation is true, that is.
Upon superimposing this "half-truth" in upon the whole truth...we arrive at stagnant stupidity that won't grow so long as "any answer" takes precedent over "no answer".
But it shouldn't go without saying. As much as a deterministic understanding is completely valid...so is the understanding of what we call "freewill".
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There is a duality here. The only real answer is one we have yet to think of because they're both equally valid. And I'm not referring to that cheap version of compatibalism that is popular at the moment.
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I simply mean we are not permitted to assume EITHER as the case.
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Therefore, Schrodinger's experiment could only ever be HALF of the story
I like that question. I like that question a lot. - For the layman, what the man is pointing out is the fickle idiocy of the observation. - If a tree falls in the forest, and no one hears it, does it make a noise? - BY DEFINITION, of "a tree falling" the answer is already stated in the question with an absolute YES IT DOES. Why are you asking stupid questions? - EXACT same with Schrodinger's cat, and this young man pointed out EXACTLY why. - With his brilliant question. - Well done. -
If the quantum wave particle function explained by Schrödinger’s wave equation represents the forward passage of time or arrow of time itself photon by photon or moment by moment. Then Heisenberg’s Uncertainty Principle that is formed by the wave function is the same uncertainty we have with any future event.
I doubt very much that one would survive immersion imprisoned in poisonous gas but the thought aspect is and depending on which theory is subscribed would be 50/50 either way. Personally I think that where one dies he will cease to exist in that world and in other worlds since he is a conscious being he will survive. Thus supporting life immortality. But at the point of dyeing an actual death in one world one would not observe his own death. Still I wouldn't like to try this theory in real terms
@misshumanoid1974 "I doubt very much that one would survive immersion imprisoned in poisonous gas but the thought aspect is and depending on which theory is subscribed would be 50/50 either way."
I've thought of that as well. For example it would seem absurd to think that a person guillotined during the French revolution would have his head quantum tunnel back onto his body a split second before his head lose consciousness. I wonder if perhaps Orch-OR could happen outside of a body.
...hospital bed for all of eternity. The universe would forever provide ways of keeping you interested and engaged. You also have to suppose that there's one path that constitutes the primary You, and all your copies are merely ambassadors meant to round out the cast of characters in someone else's universe. Still, it's a better bet than an afterlife: no need to propose a separate existence that your mind somehow travels to after you die.
Well secretly I suspect that there may be something to that as well, and that it may be connected in some way to this. John Eccles wrote a paper a while back showing that the mind could collapse wave-functions in neurons in ways that ordinary objects could not. The curious thing here is the order of causation. The mind (can) collapse(s) (other stuff does too) the wave-function which in turn produces observables. I can't help but wonder...
@JohananRaatz My understanding of many-worlds is that there's only an apparent collapse -- all outcomes happen. One version of you sees the particle go through the left slit while another sees it go through the right slit. To each version it seems as if the dice got rolled and the particle chose a slit at random. But if the right slit equals death, there's only 1 version of you left after the experiment; same number as before. Since both versions are equally "You", you only see left slit.
@SamSpade2010 Correct! Now if we generalize this and realize that all manners of death (car accident, heart attack, old age etc.) are also defined by quantum states before they are collapsed what does that mean?
@JohananRaatz Life and afterlife all rolled into one: not just allowed by the laws of physics, but implied by them. Unfortunately, if you're run over by a truck, the majority of the universes in which you survive are ones in which you're maimed. There's a way around this, but it involves wishful thinking: suppose that your path through the tree is not merely the longest one, but the one of maximum information accumulation. This would rule out paths involving alzheimers or being stuck in a ....
You are not in both states at once. The problem with Schrodinger's cat or thought experiment is believing that the unknown condition of the object is in both states at the same time. It is more likely that there is 3 states in which are shown. The object or subject in this idea could be alive, dead, and neither dead or alive, i.e., the unknown condition or state. Similar thing happens in quantum mechanics where the observer tips the scales of probability in favor of the idea of thinking.
.. Similar to the double slit experiment where the observer or the act of being observed tips the scales of probability in favor of the observation. Energy itself changes into particles when interaction occurs. These waves of energy move relative together thus appearing to be sitting still from any other portion of the wave moving along side it. As long as the wave is not being observed it remains a wave. Any interaction of it's position will then tip the probability by forming particles.
... Matter is then possible because of the act of observing. I believe there is another way matter can be created naturally. When an energy wave slows to a stop relative to the source it also converts energy into particles. The only place this occurs naturally is when the wave collides with the energy of a magnetic field head on, or 90° to the waves travel. This location becomes the disk plane around radioactive planets that have magnetic fields, note all the radioactive gassy giants have rings!
.... not only do they have rings but the leading edge of the rings would be the youngest being the front for the formation of particles.
When the spectrograph data of Saturn's rings were received from the Cassini spacecraft they found evidence. Saturn's outer rings are much younger than the inner rings. NASA said that it will take them a couple of years to figure out why. The data did not confirm the Nebula Theory and how our solar system had formed. I am getting closer each day to that answer.
While I realise this is a fairly old video you may find searching for the “Quantum Machine Gun” thought experiment intriguing. It basically hypothesises that in the case of the Schrodinger's Cat experiment with you being the cat you will always experience the reality in which you were not killed whereas an outside observer has the possibility of seeing you die/live in their reality, one of the possible implications of this is Quantum Immortality.
Worthingtons1 3 weeks ago
Whats are the limits on how we can collapse wave-functions (and possible allow us limited free will) and what if there is a "privileged observer" that can choose when and how to collapse wave-functions? If the Copenhagen interpretation is true, that is.
kvash3154 5 months ago
Upon superimposing this "half-truth" in upon the whole truth...we arrive at stagnant stupidity that won't grow so long as "any answer" takes precedent over "no answer".
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Welcome to religion in it's purest form.
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D33veeoss 8 months ago
But it shouldn't go without saying. As much as a deterministic understanding is completely valid...so is the understanding of what we call "freewill".
-
There is a duality here. The only real answer is one we have yet to think of because they're both equally valid. And I'm not referring to that cheap version of compatibalism that is popular at the moment.
-
I simply mean we are not permitted to assume EITHER as the case.
-
Therefore, Schrodinger's experiment could only ever be HALF of the story
D33veeoss 8 months ago
Fractal time indicates that past, present and future are a simple matter of semantics.
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Time and moments, as independent as they APPEAR to be from one another are systemic. They're all part of the same bowl of soup.
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It simply won't do to omit the parsley, and think that the soup could still have ben made in the first place.
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"Whatever will be will be" is not a point made pre-QM where we now know better.
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Whatever will be will be" is absolute.
D33veeoss 8 months ago
D33veeoss 8 months ago
If the quantum wave particle function explained by Schrödinger’s wave equation represents the forward passage of time or arrow of time itself photon by photon or moment by moment. Then Heisenberg’s Uncertainty Principle that is formed by the wave function is the same uncertainty we have with any future event.
nickharvey7 11 months ago
I doubt very much that one would survive immersion imprisoned in poisonous gas but the thought aspect is and depending on which theory is subscribed would be 50/50 either way. Personally I think that where one dies he will cease to exist in that world and in other worlds since he is a conscious being he will survive. Thus supporting life immortality. But at the point of dyeing an actual death in one world one would not observe his own death. Still I wouldn't like to try this theory in real terms
misshumanoid1974 1 year ago
@misshumanoid1974 "I doubt very much that one would survive immersion imprisoned in poisonous gas but the thought aspect is and depending on which theory is subscribed would be 50/50 either way."
I've thought of that as well. For example it would seem absurd to think that a person guillotined during the French revolution would have his head quantum tunnel back onto his body a split second before his head lose consciousness. I wonder if perhaps Orch-OR could happen outside of a body.
JohananRaatz 10 months ago
...which, come to think of it, is pretty similar to your mind causing a collapse.
SamSpade2010 1 year ago
...hospital bed for all of eternity. The universe would forever provide ways of keeping you interested and engaged. You also have to suppose that there's one path that constitutes the primary You, and all your copies are merely ambassadors meant to round out the cast of characters in someone else's universe. Still, it's a better bet than an afterlife: no need to propose a separate existence that your mind somehow travels to after you die.
SamSpade2010 1 year ago
@SamSpade2010
Well secretly I suspect that there may be something to that as well, and that it may be connected in some way to this. John Eccles wrote a paper a while back showing that the mind could collapse wave-functions in neurons in ways that ordinary objects could not. The curious thing here is the order of causation. The mind (can) collapse(s) (other stuff does too) the wave-function which in turn produces observables. I can't help but wonder...
JohananRaatz 1 year ago
@JohananRaatz My understanding of many-worlds is that there's only an apparent collapse -- all outcomes happen. One version of you sees the particle go through the left slit while another sees it go through the right slit. To each version it seems as if the dice got rolled and the particle chose a slit at random. But if the right slit equals death, there's only 1 version of you left after the experiment; same number as before. Since both versions are equally "You", you only see left slit.
SamSpade2010 1 year ago
You can't observe your own non-existence, so you'll always be the one who doesn't get shot.
SamSpade2010 1 year ago
@SamSpade2010 Correct! Now if we generalize this and realize that all manners of death (car accident, heart attack, old age etc.) are also defined by quantum states before they are collapsed what does that mean?
JohananRaatz 1 year ago
@JohananRaatz Life and afterlife all rolled into one: not just allowed by the laws of physics, but implied by them. Unfortunately, if you're run over by a truck, the majority of the universes in which you survive are ones in which you're maimed. There's a way around this, but it involves wishful thinking: suppose that your path through the tree is not merely the longest one, but the one of maximum information accumulation. This would rule out paths involving alzheimers or being stuck in a ....
SamSpade2010 1 year ago
You are not in both states at once. The problem with Schrodinger's cat or thought experiment is believing that the unknown condition of the object is in both states at the same time. It is more likely that there is 3 states in which are shown. The object or subject in this idea could be alive, dead, and neither dead or alive, i.e., the unknown condition or state. Similar thing happens in quantum mechanics where the observer tips the scales of probability in favor of the idea of thinking.
GateMessenger 1 year ago
.. Similar to the double slit experiment where the observer or the act of being observed tips the scales of probability in favor of the observation. Energy itself changes into particles when interaction occurs. These waves of energy move relative together thus appearing to be sitting still from any other portion of the wave moving along side it. As long as the wave is not being observed it remains a wave. Any interaction of it's position will then tip the probability by forming particles.
GateMessenger 1 year ago
... Matter is then possible because of the act of observing. I believe there is another way matter can be created naturally. When an energy wave slows to a stop relative to the source it also converts energy into particles. The only place this occurs naturally is when the wave collides with the energy of a magnetic field head on, or 90° to the waves travel. This location becomes the disk plane around radioactive planets that have magnetic fields, note all the radioactive gassy giants have rings!
GateMessenger 1 year ago
.... not only do they have rings but the leading edge of the rings would be the youngest being the front for the formation of particles.
When the spectrograph data of Saturn's rings were received from the Cassini spacecraft they found evidence. Saturn's outer rings are much younger than the inner rings. NASA said that it will take them a couple of years to figure out why. The data did not confirm the Nebula Theory and how our solar system had formed. I am getting closer each day to that answer.
GateMessenger 1 year ago