Self defense techniques of Justified Lethal Force

[Trinivalist]

2 minutes in and I agree totally... this is the real mind set to train with... before even thinking about learning to punch or kick or defend... you need to know where things will change. When i trained with Gerald Doxen, we toughen certain parts of the body, so I know certain places can take pain. Then you might be dealing with someone who is out of their minds, and they may not feel pain even in soft areas.

[Phi16180]

these guys are psychotic. teaching any jo-schmo how to kill for a price. i know some psychopaths that would love the opportunity to learn how to kill efficiently and effectively.

[jlingx]

idea is so right. i cant agree those guys more

[NewZealfighter]

I could listen to these guys for hours

[lazur1]

The ideas about throwing your whole body into the threat for penetration greatly resemble Jack Dempsey's book on boxing, where he differenciates between boxing as fighting and as sport.

[tmg123]

I personally trained with Tim Larkin in 1999, in Phoneix at the Scars facility. He is the real deal. He understands how to teach and how to train. It is very easy to make commments when you dont know what you are talking about in regards to spec ops hand /weapon tactics, when in reality you have very little training under your belt. TFT is training operators / civllians how to "take out" an individual, not simply beat them.

[jrusso7660]

Alot of dudes have died because they believed in fighting with honor because of their bullshit karate.  Please!!! On the street, there is no honor. Or as we learned from The Karate Kid, "an enemy deserves no mercy."

[Piklethedoodad]

Instructor 1: "You want to step through the guy"

Instructor 2: "BLUUUEGH"

[alilives2008]

Interesting! thank you!

[jayrperiod]

these guys kno wat they talkin about...id wanna learn from them

[mattmenking]

The only thing is, if those systems are so good, how come they have so many flaws that so many people feel the need to learn 18 different martial arts...when it comes down to it fighting is fighting, and these guys teach that simnple principal combat sports are great and definately give an advantage, but only in so far as they understand its not about what sport you know...in war, i kill with an M-4, the enemy kills me with an AK-47..but the weapon doesnt matter...the whole in my body

[jimmythebastattss]

im young and athletic but if even if you a 60 year old overweight guy with lung problems you can still drop your bodyweight through my throat and leave me to choke

[iambca2007]

...I didn't quite finish :)

Of the styles and systems I've been exposed to I do believe that TFT and SCARS do the best job at target emphasis and how to use your body to whatever your level of capability is to inflict damage to the targets. 

While I wouldn't trade my BJJ or TKD skills they are not well suited for all types of violent encounters. Not to say that TFT is the only answer, but it does have a place in an overall training program as part of ones preparation.

[lordscrub]

Hey iambca2007 I have a question for you, you said said you should not be fixated with any one system,but you also agreed that TFT and SCARS do the best job at preparing you for violence, then why would you want to continue to train in those other sports, is it just for the competition? or are you still thinking about what to do when you end up in a "social" conflict? I guess what I'm really trying to ask is what do you think those other systems can offer that TFT or SCARS fell short with

[iambca2007]

why would you want to continue to train in those other sports:

- Because I enjoy them and what they offer me

is it just for the competition?

- Not entirely but largely yes.

are you still thinking about what to do when you end up in a "social" conflict?

- Nope.

what do you think those other systems can offer that TFT or SCARS fell short with?

- it's not a sport or mma system and I enjoy participating in them.

[BestatwhatIdo]

I think that's a very fair assessment. By the way, what do you think about Paul Vunak's Progressive Fighting System? Or Krav Maga?

[iambca2007]

I've watched Vunaks' RAT videos but personally don't agree with much of it. The repetitious running punching drill really turned me off.

While I know what krav maga is I've not spent enough time learning about it to have much of an understanding of what they do to have much an opinion. I'll have to check it out.

[iambca2007]

I'm familiar w / SCARS as I purchased the video program 10+ years ago and dedicated a lot of time to training with it. I've trained in BJJ, TKD, and TSD off and on for almost two decades.

I truly believe that becoming too fixated on any one style or system is limiting. However, I will say that the principles that SCARS and TFT teach are sound.

Fundamentally all of it is about injury. Rather it is with TKD, JKD, TFT, SCARS, BJJ, or whatever. You must inflict injury upon them first.

[CheshireCatFun]

Oh, okay, you apparantly thought TFT was a mixed martial art or backyard brawling system or something connected to combat sports, and not a system devised for real world combat against gangbangers and rapests and thugs, or enemy combatants in warzones.

Well, okay, I concur. TFT wouldn't really work in the ring. Thereagain, combat sports don't work on the street against criminals.

As for Kimbo, great fighter, but a crushed trachea or broken clavicle is a debilitating injury, no matter on who.

[CheshireCatFun]

What's pure fantasy is thinking that that's what Tim is advocating, which is absurd.

Ironic, since what he advocates is the exact opposite of what you just said. "Thinking you can be slow, weak, and clumsy . . ." No, actually, you learn how to be quick; harnass all your bodyweight in each strike; and be methodical and accurate in your targeting.

BTW, have you actually met Tim? You said you crossed his path in SCARS. Oh? Do tell. This should be interesting.

[Whammer79]

The point I'm trying to make is- you just don't need to learn very many movements. Just about the only move you really need is- stab your finger(s) or thumb(s) into their eyes and then escape. That's how you survive real life attacks.

If you're a child, an old person, or a weak person, that movement will work for you.

Once you start trying to add more and more techniques you really destroy the simplicity.

There is too much bullshit in hand-to-hand fighting that is being taught.

[TVwatcha01]

You might not have a good oppurtunity to do that. Why not just give every civillian a gun and keep it at that? Knowing martial arts is not "bullshit" in the least, I've practiced in Karate, aikido, shaolin kung fu, taekwando, and hung gar, all of which have taught me about different situations like this, involving escape techniques, grappling, striking, and defending.

[Whammer79]

Here's a reality check for some of you-

Check youtube for videos of Kimbo Slice!

How many techniques is Kimbo using? You don't need many techniques in real life. You don't need a 30 DVD set.

TFT says you don't need to be big, fast or athletic. You know what happens when you face someone who IS? And who can fight? You get beat down!

Look at the chaotic movements in the Kimbo fight- people don't just stand there like a heavy bag (well Kimbo does briefly, but that's to prove he can take it)

[neilneazer]

So what would you think of the S.P.E.A.R. SYSTEM from Tony Blauer? Thats true about chaotic movements in the street fight but if you have no reference point to draw from, how would you survive a violent altercation and not a weak bar fight? I stress survive and not win because a "win" mind-set focuses on a sport setting such as the UFC. Kimbo had football background (yes that is relevant) and from where he worked and after his life went on a downward spiral.

[jimmythebastattss]

i agree you dont need techniques in street violence and tft emphasizes that fact it simple trains you to put your bodyweight through targets to create injury after tft training the only thing you need is common sense to make your chance of avoiding violence greater

[mattmenking]

you ran away, you mean..its "a technique"

[Whammer79]

Anything that you do that keeps you safe is a technique. Your post shows just how little you know about real world violence.

Now be a good boy and go watch your Bruce Lee collection.

[CheshireCatFun]

Boy that's condescending. So, when you have holes blown in your argument, you resort to ad hominem attacks and sarcasm?

[Whammer79]

Hmmm, I love guys like you. There have been no holes blown in my argument. As for "ad hominem" attacks- That's what your comment to me was. I quote: "If you actually knew what you were talking about".

The reality is- you have no idea what my level of knowledge is?

I've seen TFT- back when Tim was with SCARS. Didn't impress me.

You're so quick to attack, in order to justify the money you have spent, you missed my opening comment. I said he makes some valid points.

[CheshireCatFun]

That was a statement of fact based on actual comments from you. You haven't said anything specific, have spoken in generalities, have attributed POV's to TFT that it doesn't espouse. That shows a lack of knowledge of the subject. Everything you've said about TFT is the exact opposite of what is taught on the tapes.

"That am I justifying what I've spent"? An average of $15-$20 (or less) per hour dvd? That's cheaper than standard market value for instructional tapes.

[mattmenking]

i know nothing of real world violence...ten years as an infantry soldier and know officer and i know nothing...strangely, i know more than you may think, with plenty of real experience with "violence" of a type its unlikely that you have seen

[elixer666]

Fine.

1) are you female?

2) do you own this series?

3) have you ever been violently assulted?

[elixer666]

Fearmongering?? You aren't female. I own the entire DVD series, and it is the BEST self-devense program I've ever seen. Changed my thinking and behavior for the better and safer. I dunno how much you would pay not to be raped or murdered, but I consider the price of the DVDs to be a bargain for the confidence and skill I've gained.

Learn more and you may be as impressed as I am.

[Whammer79]

You're making some huge assumtions. I've been doing mindset training long before TFT was developed.

Once YOU learn some more you won't be so easily impressed.

[Whammer79]

He makes some valid points- but there is a lot of fear mongering going on with this stuff.

I've been in the combative arts for 20+ years. When I was younger I was really gung ho about all this stuff but you have to keep your perspective. Larkin has good reason for wanting you to be fearful- it keeps him in business.

[CheshireCatFun]

Right . . . . so, how much of his stuff do you actually have? Apart from this 10 minute viddie, how much fear-mongering can you attest to? Do you have any specific examples? Could you get me some timecodes off of some of his other DVDs?

[Whammer79]

I get his email newsletter- the whole thing is fear mongering. If he can create enough fear and doubt in you, then you might buy his product.

His website is like that as well. Learn this or die is the message he is sending out.

Feel free to spend thousands of dollars on something you don't need, doesn't bother me.

[CheshireCatFun]

First, off, I don't get "1000's of dollars". That's no where near what I've spent. I also don't follow the "don't need" bit - what exactly do I "do need" by way of comparison. I also get his newsletter, and have for years. I have yet to run across any of this fear-mongering of which you speak. I also have 20+ years experience in about 6 different systems. What exactly am I supposed to not be impressed by?

If you actually knew what you were talking about, you might make a legit point.

[Whammer79]

I know what I'm talking about.

But more to the point- the guy puts up a video on youtube- is everyone just suppose to nod their head in a agreement?

I guess you think everyone must agree and if they don't they are wrong.

Look at his website- it's pure fear mongering. It's telling you about how violent the world is and how quickly you'll be killed.

BUT if you drop several hundred to a few thousand dollars on his method- you'll be safe.

Bullshit!

[CheshireCatFun]

"Nod their head in agreement"? No. Make a cogent argument? Yes.

You say you know what you are talking about, yet you have no direct experience of TFT. What you refer to as fear-mongering is simply compelling ad copy and police statistics. The fact that there is a one year return policy defuses your argument since if it was all hype, you could return the tapes.

They also never say on the website that you'll be "safe". Rather, you'll be "prepared" and "trained to handle it". Big Diff.

[MindOverEverything]

Everybody who wants to be able to protect themselves and their loved ones from crime should attend a TFT class.

If you can get a partner willing to train with you, also get the "Most critical 5 seconds" DVDs and train at home.

Once you have the basics of TFT mastered, get some pistol and rifle training (force on force training, specifically) to round out your personal arsenal. Also, get a concealed carry permit and exercise your 2nd amendment rights!

You'll be glad you did.

[FL337]

Seems straight forward and logical.

[CMDB201]

I have many of Tim Larkin's video products: Joint Breaking, Weapons Series, 5 most critical seconds of your life, and Striking DVDs. His principles are sound and very different from the sport mentality and "self defense" training that exists today. I highly recommend supporting his business! The information he gives here is very valuable. The information you gain through his services are invaluable. I plan to take his live seminars in the future.

[MarkG225]

I have taken the one day class with Tim as the instructor, and what you see here is consistent (words and phrases are identical) with what you should expect to see and do in the class.

As Tim points out, there are very, very, few situations where a non-security or law enforcement person would be justified in using violence as a tool. But a good thing to know if you ever find you or your loved ones confronted with violence that all you need is your body and a strong desire to create injury.

[hrafnsvegr]

For those [still] missing on the value of what TFT has to offer, my suggestion is to attend one of their workshops.

Coming from a more traditional martial arts background, I had my doubts about the system. My biggest question was why do they train in slow motion when real fights are explosive; and whether that type of training would transfer to real-life situations (and if so, HOW)?

Well, I attended a workshop, gained a better understanding of the system and .. planning on attending again :)