@samispock So far, the relatives have not been able to claim these items. When Edith Brown Haisman's grandfather's watch (he died in the sinking) was recovered and showcased on A&E's documentary as having been "given" to her by RMS Titanic, Inc., what wasn't disclosed is that this organization took the watch back from her and kept it for their travelling exhibitions.
For the same reason, I think the wreck of the Titanic should not even be moved from its place, nor should they try to get it out of the ocean at any time in the history, to let the victims of its tragic fate rest in peace and also out of respect for the history, because those who ignore the history, tend to repeat it - and because the history is a teacher of life... The present and the future is merely a product of the past; without it, there would be no future and no present at all... ;*
That is, in my opinion, slightly disrespectful to those who died there... It is in some way disrupting the eternal sleep of the deceased. Because those who sank along with the Titanic, certainly must still lie there even if no-one was ever able to find them in the wreck because a human couldn't do that and a robot can't really enter every single part of the ship...
Anyway, if the items found on the wreck were at least returned to the families of those who died on the Titanic and who were the rightful owners of all that wealth, that would be understandeable. But what's the point of trying to save that stuff if it's going to be an exponate in a museum since the ownership can't even be established anymore so that the lost items might be sent to the living relatives of their owners who travelled onboard the Titanic and then died in waters of the ocean...? ;*
@FuzzyPickle122 But 'Titanic' is not female, an example of a female name would be 'Queen Mary' or so... But 'Titanic'? ;* And while I agree that a ship might have a 'soul' in the meaning of a history behind and emotions that one associates with that particular ship, I think gramatically, a ship is but a thing and so, I prefer to speak genderlessly about it - 'it', 'its'... ;*
@FuzzyPickle122 I just ask myself why do people speak 'she' and 'her' when they talk about a ship while as far as I know, in English a ship is a thing, not an alive creature, so it has no gender.Why not a 'he' or 'his' then? Because it sounds ridiculous to say 'she' and 'her'.I think if we say 'it' that sounds more naturally and less forced... Don't you think? Now, I'm not an expert, but linguistically speaking, a ship is simply a ship... Unless,of course-it has a female name...
The answers to that mystery of Captain Smith's final orders are clear today. Officer lightoller was an officer on board the Titanic. He was in the last meeting that took place on the Titanic (after she was hit) and saw that Bruce Ismay asked the ship be keep sailing even though it was picking water. It is not clear why because that would only speed up the sinking. This is recently released information narrated by Officer Lightoller's grandson after his grandfather's death.
@manuelfbaby They use robots because of the crushing pressure at that depth, its 100pounds per square inch at that depth and a diver wouldnt stand a chance he would be instantly squashed to death, hope that answers your question.
@manuelfbaby I think it's quite logic - not only the underwater pressure but also the fact that it's just too deep down the ocean, at its very bottom and the divers might not survive due to lack of oxygen because their oxygen supplies wouldn't last. And after all, a human body cannot stay alive for such a long time under water. If you dive in a bath for one hour, you'll most probably drown... ;*
@angel32272 You want to know how? Well, after all, those who survived thank to that hero and other survivors were the witnesses, after all... They must have known him, at least some of them, and then they told the story when they were saved, and 75 years later or so, when the wallet was found with his identity, it was possible to attribute that identity to that man who was remembered risking his life to save others. Sure, he was remembered by his name, the same which the wallet has revealed...
@angel32272 It's quite logic to assume. It is less logic to me, that the wallet with its content has actually survived - perhaps due to some scientifical properties that prooved protective making it not only water-proof, but even time-proof... However, I am still amazed at the mere fact of it... Indeed. ;*
I think it's terrific they're salvaging these items. I don't think they can save enough of them. Every, single salvageable piece should be brought up. Salvaging IN NO WAY interferes with exploration; James Cameron has shown that. Titanic will be gone for good one day, and we won't have the chance to save anything else. It's NOT a grave site and hasn't been for many decades. THERE ARE NO BODIES DOWN THERE. It's a shipwreck, like 100's of other shipwrecks that have been explored and salvaged.
@kayper54 Yes, it IS A GRAVE! Where do you think all those third class people have gone, if they were locked there so they couldn't just float out of the wrecked ship after it has sinked... They just stayed there... The bodies floating on the ocean were of those who managed to get off the deck but there was no place for them in the life boats and so, they died frozen in the ice cold waters before rescue has arrived. The mass grave should be respected and left in peace... ;*
@kayper54 There are no bodies in many of the graves at Gettysburg, either. But if you go there with a shovel and try to dig up uniform buttons and buckles, you'll be deservedly arrested. It's still a grave. None of the items from Titanic has any archaeological value; unlike with an ancient Roman shipwreck that we can learn from. This is simply treasure hunting for profit.
@DLPBurke What's the use leaving it down there? So future generations can experience seeing the wreck photos the way I did in 1985 and '86; with everything there. When the wreck finally collapses on itself and is reduced to an iron ore deposit on the bottom of the ocean, the debris field will now be gone, too, with the looting that's taken place. What's more meaningful as an image of the tragedy--seeing passengers' effects on the ocean floor, or seeing them in a traveling carnival, (con't)
@galoon The use in leaving it down there is no one else sees it, and it is sure to eventually disappear (or some of it is). I don't consider Titanic a grave, and even if I did, there comes a time for a grave to be explored in the interests of history. In the case of titanic, it is hardly like we are going into a single grave and throwing a body out. All the bodies are gone. A grave is only a grave with a body.
@DLPBurke What do you mean "no one else sees it?" The whole world saw Dr. Ballard's photos of the wreck site in both '85 and '86, and those photos have turned up in countless books since then. We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.
@DLPBurke I'm not opposed to exploring the wreck, but exploring and taking things are two different acts. Ballard's expedition explored and photographed nearly every square inch of the ship's exterior and the debris field without having to pilfer any items. Same for later missions that took footage deep inside the wreck. They brought back a video and photo record while taking nothing physically.
@DLPBurke (con't) where they're forever separated from their context? Do you mean that you believe it's acceptable to dig up war graves and take items if they're valuable?
@owainmeurig Might be that some third class passengers survived if they were lucky enough to be on the top decks at the time of the catastrophe. But those who were down in their cabins under the deck, they were locked and doomed to terrible death... :-(
As lady Louise Patten (Lightoller's grandaughter) confesses, after the collision Ismay begged Captain Smith to go "slow ahead" for 10 minutes rather than call for assistance, thus exacerbating the sinking.
It was actually second officer Lightoller, not Captain Smith, who asked for volunteers when Major Peuchen stepped forward. Incidentally Peuchen was the only male passenger Lightoller allowed into a lifeboat that night.
If someone can prove that an artifact on display belonged to a relative of theirs, can they claim it, and would they get it?/
samispock 1 month ago
@samispock So far, the relatives have not been able to claim these items. When Edith Brown Haisman's grandfather's watch (he died in the sinking) was recovered and showcased on A&E's documentary as having been "given" to her by RMS Titanic, Inc., what wasn't disclosed is that this organization took the watch back from her and kept it for their travelling exhibitions.
galoon 1 week ago
For the same reason, I think the wreck of the Titanic should not even be moved from its place, nor should they try to get it out of the ocean at any time in the history, to let the victims of its tragic fate rest in peace and also out of respect for the history, because those who ignore the history, tend to repeat it - and because the history is a teacher of life... The present and the future is merely a product of the past; without it, there would be no future and no present at all... ;*
aishakafeel 1 month ago
That is, in my opinion, slightly disrespectful to those who died there... It is in some way disrupting the eternal sleep of the deceased. Because those who sank along with the Titanic, certainly must still lie there even if no-one was ever able to find them in the wreck because a human couldn't do that and a robot can't really enter every single part of the ship...
aishakafeel 1 month ago
Anyway, if the items found on the wreck were at least returned to the families of those who died on the Titanic and who were the rightful owners of all that wealth, that would be understandeable. But what's the point of trying to save that stuff if it's going to be an exponate in a museum since the ownership can't even be established anymore so that the lost items might be sent to the living relatives of their owners who travelled onboard the Titanic and then died in waters of the ocean...? ;*
aishakafeel 1 month ago
@FuzzyPickle122 But 'Titanic' is not female, an example of a female name would be 'Queen Mary' or so... But 'Titanic'? ;* And while I agree that a ship might have a 'soul' in the meaning of a history behind and emotions that one associates with that particular ship, I think gramatically, a ship is but a thing and so, I prefer to speak genderlessly about it - 'it', 'its'... ;*
aishakafeel 1 month ago
@FuzzyPickle122 I just ask myself why do people speak 'she' and 'her' when they talk about a ship while as far as I know, in English a ship is a thing, not an alive creature, so it has no gender.Why not a 'he' or 'his' then? Because it sounds ridiculous to say 'she' and 'her'.I think if we say 'it' that sounds more naturally and less forced... Don't you think? Now, I'm not an expert, but linguistically speaking, a ship is simply a ship... Unless,of course-it has a female name...
aishakafeel 1 month ago
The answers to that mystery of Captain Smith's final orders are clear today. Officer lightoller was an officer on board the Titanic. He was in the last meeting that took place on the Titanic (after she was hit) and saw that Bruce Ismay asked the ship be keep sailing even though it was picking water. It is not clear why because that would only speed up the sinking. This is recently released information narrated by Officer Lightoller's grandson after his grandfather's death.
shafeeqr2 2 months ago
But why can't the divers just jump into the sea and recollect all those stuffs i dont understand why they needed the robot
manuelfbaby 2 months ago
@manuelfbaby They use robots because of the crushing pressure at that depth, its 100pounds per square inch at that depth and a diver wouldnt stand a chance he would be instantly squashed to death, hope that answers your question.
alfcsm101 2 months ago
@manuelfbaby I think it's quite logic - not only the underwater pressure but also the fact that it's just too deep down the ocean, at its very bottom and the divers might not survive due to lack of oxygen because their oxygen supplies wouldn't last. And after all, a human body cannot stay alive for such a long time under water. If you dive in a bath for one hour, you'll most probably drown... ;*
aishakafeel 1 month ago
How did they get that story from his wallet? :s
angel32272 2 months ago
@angel32272 You want to know how? Well, after all, those who survived thank to that hero and other survivors were the witnesses, after all... They must have known him, at least some of them, and then they told the story when they were saved, and 75 years later or so, when the wallet was found with his identity, it was possible to attribute that identity to that man who was remembered risking his life to save others. Sure, he was remembered by his name, the same which the wallet has revealed...
aishakafeel 1 month ago
@angel32272 It's quite logic to assume. It is less logic to me, that the wallet with its content has actually survived - perhaps due to some scientifical properties that prooved protective making it not only water-proof, but even time-proof... However, I am still amazed at the mere fact of it... Indeed. ;*
aishakafeel 1 month ago
I think it's terrific they're salvaging these items. I don't think they can save enough of them. Every, single salvageable piece should be brought up. Salvaging IN NO WAY interferes with exploration; James Cameron has shown that. Titanic will be gone for good one day, and we won't have the chance to save anything else. It's NOT a grave site and hasn't been for many decades. THERE ARE NO BODIES DOWN THERE. It's a shipwreck, like 100's of other shipwrecks that have been explored and salvaged.
kayper54 3 months ago
@kayper54 Yes, it IS A GRAVE! Where do you think all those third class people have gone, if they were locked there so they couldn't just float out of the wrecked ship after it has sinked... They just stayed there... The bodies floating on the ocean were of those who managed to get off the deck but there was no place for them in the life boats and so, they died frozen in the ice cold waters before rescue has arrived. The mass grave should be respected and left in peace... ;*
aishakafeel 1 month ago
@kayper54 There are no bodies in many of the graves at Gettysburg, either. But if you go there with a shovel and try to dig up uniform buttons and buckles, you'll be deservedly arrested. It's still a grave. None of the items from Titanic has any archaeological value; unlike with an ancient Roman shipwreck that we can learn from. This is simply treasure hunting for profit.
galoon 1 week ago
@galoon So what? What is the use leaving it down there? Without profit we wouldnt have an expedition.
DLPBurke 1 week ago
@DLPBurke What's the use leaving it down there? So future generations can experience seeing the wreck photos the way I did in 1985 and '86; with everything there. When the wreck finally collapses on itself and is reduced to an iron ore deposit on the bottom of the ocean, the debris field will now be gone, too, with the looting that's taken place. What's more meaningful as an image of the tragedy--seeing passengers' effects on the ocean floor, or seeing them in a traveling carnival, (con't)
galoon 1 week ago
@galoon The use in leaving it down there is no one else sees it, and it is sure to eventually disappear (or some of it is). I don't consider Titanic a grave, and even if I did, there comes a time for a grave to be explored in the interests of history. In the case of titanic, it is hardly like we are going into a single grave and throwing a body out. All the bodies are gone. A grave is only a grave with a body.
DLPBurke 1 week ago
@DLPBurke What do you mean "no one else sees it?" The whole world saw Dr. Ballard's photos of the wreck site in both '85 and '86, and those photos have turned up in countless books since then. We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.
galoon 1 week ago
@galoon Photographs are not the same thing.
DLPBurke 5 days ago
@DLPBurke I'm not opposed to exploring the wreck, but exploring and taking things are two different acts. Ballard's expedition explored and photographed nearly every square inch of the ship's exterior and the debris field without having to pilfer any items. Same for later missions that took footage deep inside the wreck. They brought back a video and photo record while taking nothing physically.
galoon 1 week ago
@DLPBurke (con't) where they're forever separated from their context? Do you mean that you believe it's acceptable to dig up war graves and take items if they're valuable?
galoon 1 week ago
@galoon and think about what you are saying please. 1 is ok to take and another isn't due to value.
DLPBurke 1 week ago
Amy Stanley was a servant travelling as a 3rd class passenger and survived.
owainmeurig 6 months ago
@owainmeurig Might be that some third class passengers survived if they were lucky enough to be on the top decks at the time of the catastrophe. But those who were down in their cabins under the deck, they were locked and doomed to terrible death... :-(
aishakafeel 1 month ago
Note at 7:57 you can see "T I" from the name. If my research is right they used a wire brush to scrap the rusticals off.
MulletManSam 1 year ago
As lady Louise Patten (Lightoller's grandaughter) confesses, after the collision Ismay begged Captain Smith to go "slow ahead" for 10 minutes rather than call for assistance, thus exacerbating the sinking.
23456789Alexis 1 year ago
It was actually second officer Lightoller, not Captain Smith, who asked for volunteers when Major Peuchen stepped forward. Incidentally Peuchen was the only male passenger Lightoller allowed into a lifeboat that night.
FlaviusConstantius 1 year ago