I trained with Ma Yueh Liang's last disciple Grandmaster Johnny Lee and I can say being an ignorant American there is a lot out there that western science has yet to discover in terms of what the human body is capable of. Oh btw the comment someone made about silk reeling is 100% correct. Now Chen Fake there's someone like Master Ma we should all strive to emulate.
Clear energy projection skills. After 70 years of practicing in an internal art you don't move externally anymore, unless you are a dummy, like the youngsters in this forum who comment so easily about fake. What are you saying? That the master should sweat, for you to be able to see the movement of energy from earth to his hands?
But tai chi is not an art everyone can understand. If so, the world would be a perfect place, full of balance, respect to nature and understanding of life's purpose
This is one of those things you have to see for your self, however My master can bend metal around his thumb standing on one leg so I can see how the master can hold of a guys push. My grand master was pushed by 13 guys in a line one behind the other and they could not push him. so I believe that there is such a thing as this. I have also seen videos like this that are not real so I understand the lack of trust.
@jmorrisette69 When you have a bunch of guys pushing, only the front guy exerts force. A common trick which we debunked in 4th grade. This shouldn't be construed as disrespect for your master, but if he is wise he will avoid such demonstrations, because while they are thrilling to the uninitiated, they show weakness if you know about transmission of force.
@dekal1 All pushing that I have seen in chen style and even many so called yang styles is physical pushing/physical strength. Can you post a video of Chen tai chi pushing hands with real internal power? I would like to see it.
@smr144 Its all real internal power if the person is practicing correctly. It is a very combative style. Not very much pushing involved but a lot of locks, breaks and throws. A lot of Fa Jing. Snapping type of Fajing built from silk reeling.
@smr144 Sounds like Tai Chi to me. I practice Chen style. Just because ther'es not much pushing its not Tai Chi? In a fight im not going to push somebody im going to take htem out as fast as I can. Don't get too caught up in Peng/Jing its about defending yourself. I'm not going to sit here and debate with you. Chen style Tai Chi is one of the OLDEST forms of Tai Chi there is. There are transcriptions.
Tai Chi is about internal power and push-hands is not a martial technique but rather a way to refine one's energy. Push (not to be confuse w/ push-hands) is a counter technique for the shoulder strike. The reality is that Chen style doesn't cultivate internal power. Chen style is Shaolin Boxing with a bit of Tai Chi thrown in. In brief, some members of the Chen Clan of Henan Province wanted to cash in on Tai Chi's popularity so they invented a false genealogy and put forward their mish-mash of..
@dekal1 ...Chen Family Pao Chui and Tai Chi as the original Tai Chi. China's leading Tai Chi historian Wu Tu-nan exploded this myth in 'A Research into Tai Chi Chuan' (written in Chinese and published in 1986) which describes his visit to the Chen family village in 1917. Real tai chi is the fruit of Daoism and has to do with the cultivation, conservation and refinement of energy (Peng-jing). You practice Chen style to defend yourself, well Buddy good luck with that.
@smr144 Everyone is welcome to their own opinion. Go look up the historical figures of Chen family and you will find that it is a very very effective self defense. Have you read the Canon of Chen Family Tai Chi? Do you know who ChenXiaoWang is? How about Chen Fake?
@dekal1 Really? If Yang came from Chen, why is that Yang doesn't look at all like Chen?? Because the similarities between Yang and Wu/Sung styles are obvious. Don't you think so? Why is that the biggest warriors ever in the history of tai chi, Yang Lu Chan and his progeny, are from Yang Style and not Chen Style?? Let's set the record strait: Yang Lu Chan learned his system from a man who's last name was Chen. But that doesn't mean that that there was a Chen family style.
@smr144 I practice Chen style and we have Peng-Jing. I wondered the same thing when I picked it up. History has it that ChenWangTing tauht Yang Lu Chan, and I believe he said, you can teach this, but you can't teach Chen family. You have to call it something else. Because Every artist is different, Peng/Jing techniques were probably added by Yang Lu Chan or maybe were emphasized on it. I don't know, but Chen XiaoWang head of Chen village says it was Chen Wang Ting and Yang Lu Chan. I dont know.
@smr144 Chen style is very very combative. I just practiced with a group of Yang practitioners in Riverside California and they are very very good. I see a lot of similarities in Yang and Chen style. The palm is face outward in Chen style. There is more snapping movements, more Chin Na. Or equal Chin na. The people in Riverside encompass a lot of Chin Na in their Yang style. They are very very skilled.
Hard to understand TaiChi really, most comments seem to be from ignorant or believers. Experience something like what you see here, then maybe you can know!!
Anybody else FEELING the movements? It's like the old man is basically playing with the other guy's balance, "sending" him into specific patterns, making him go away... Most of the force is actual gravity i think.
Pushing hands is a taijiquan exercise, right? I'd like to do that :)
It's not so mysterious. The key is two parted, proper rooting and sensitivity to lines of force. It takes tons of practice but anybody can reach this level of skill.
This is too sad. I am looking for real pushing hands videos, and all I can find is these videos of people jumping away from an old man as if he had pushed them away.
I guess what I'm saying is you keep saying I'm missing concept, but you aren't saying what that concept is. I want a real ansawer, not BS. First, you need to identify the principle as physical or "spiritual energy," and if it is physical, tell me the law or rule or fact I am violating or missing. Feel free to use equations, if you'd like, if it's physical. For example... You can not "compress" a fluid object, only a rigid object (think a string vs. a rod.)
You have not countered a single one of my arguments. Ironically, it's like conversational push hands talking to you!
You also assume I have no experience with push hands or tai chi. While I am primarily a karateka, I ahve to a lesser degree experience with more energy based arts, like Aikido, Hung gar, Tai chi, and Hsing yi. The human body and the laws of physics are the same in all these cases. Have to taken physics, or are you just ignoring Newtons Laws? Or is this beyond physics? :-p
Unless you are saying that he is directly using his energy to push these people around without touching them... then there is no physical way to explain why this people are falling all over themselves. Simply look at the body mechanics. I'd also like to focus on the way his opponents "stutter step." Quite frankly... wtf is that? And the way they "fall" is completely unnatural, forced. If they relaxed, could he still push them? Doubt it. So.. is he throwing some kind of provable energy?
And? Touching is necessary but not sufficient. Imagine: You want to move someone, your only contact with them is your hand on their hand, and their arm is extended directly towards you. If you push on their arm they could simply collapse their arm, or move around it push hands style. It looks like these guys tense up intentionally to try and get pushed away. The physics dont' add up. (Did I mention I'm an engineer? So I think I have a good grip on mechanics...) I cry foul.
this is because the evidence upon which you base your conclusion on is insufficient.
watch more intermediate level pushing hands and practicing tai chi with a long time practitioner will help you develop the necessary premises upon which to draw more logically correct conclusions as seen in this video. Ma Yu Liang was a scientist himself by the way
That doesn't help either. Being a medical doctor says nothing about a person's understanding of physics/mechanics; that's analogous to suggesting a PhD Physicist knows about the effects of hormones on cellular respiration.
Again, unless you are suggesting that his force defies the laws of physics for rigid and non-rigid bodies, then clearly something is amiss. Remember... these laws are universal - ie, they apply to ALL things which have EVER been tested by scientists.
Additionally, your suggestion of looking at a more complicated instance doesn't make sense. That would just be more to distract us away from the fundamental mechanics at work, right? Enlighten me to what these "necessary premises" are, please.
the degree to which you are attempting to weigh a fully logical or 'scientific' analysis of this video is evidently not to the fullest. You are only attacking a Side note I included in my reply that he was a scientist. You ignored my suggestion of practicing tai chi under a qualified teacher (science has proven tremendous health benefits, so there's a good reason to do that), and watch intermediate level push hands (it's more obviously real to the untrained eye)
@menith. Ok. So you're saying there is some sort of chi being used to allow him to violate standard physical laws? That goes beyond Newtonian or even particle physics? Essentially, "magic"?
let's not forget that the math theories stated above are just that, theories. The are just waiting to be dis-proven or expanded upon. And it is true, science cannot explain everything.
@simplyjbr I think you might be confused about the nature of the term "theory" in a scientific context, and the depth of testing which backs it up. This is as opposed to the colloquial term "theory," which means an idea or guess. This would be a hypothesis, NOT a theory, in science. Want to see a scientist's brain explode? Tell them you climate change or evolution are "just" theories! Also, I'm talking about laws of physics, not theories.
@simplyjbr Regardless, if you can violate these laws or theories, EVERY scientist on the planet would be dieing to get a hold of you to study you. The truth is, I DO believe in things that are beyond the physical. However, I'm not so foolish as to believe this crock. Do it with a non-student. Do it with a well trained person from another art. This is clearly staged... or magic. Can someone just stand up and say it's magic, please?
@mrtempertantrum it's not. it's an energy that can be calculated, but not yet found. it flows through the body and emit force. Same to gravity( can be calculated too)
Many people will not understand how it's done. Me included. It may look fake but from my limited years in training i can tell you it's not. I saw my teacher demonstrate some things wich i do not understand till this day, and probably never will. To truly understand the finer points you are learning a lifetime and still only grasp a percentage of what is going on in this video.
Totally real, but really hard to comprehend unless you actually work with someone who can do this. I worked with one of Ma's students and I agree that while this looks fake it is not. Until you work with this style of push hands you cannot understand what is happening or why. That is the difficulty of understanding internal energy. Get a good teacher and figure it out.
you have done this, how does it work i dont understant he isnt pushing him and i understand qi as im in my 2nd year of an accupuncture and chinese med course
Watch the Ma interview: 10 yrs to find his chi, 30 more to figure out how to use it. I had 12 yrs martial arts before starting tai chi 24 yrs ago - and I struggle to understand and do 1% of what Ma could do. This is a lifelong pursuit, not a simple trick to be mastered in a day. There is no secret to playing the piano, yet how much effort would it take to become a premier concert pianist? Ma was the best. I appreciate that this video was posted and hope it inspires some to follow Ma's path.
How it is done: 1) Begin with the practice standing meditation - a minimum of one hour a day, every day, for one year under the guidance of a qualified teacher. 2) If you complete that course you will not need any more advice from me or anyone else on YouTube!
Ma died about 1993. His senior student Wang Hao Da died 2003. Search for their students in China (Beijing?). They are not the only ones who train this style, but I don't know any others by name. I seriously doubt anyone you find will have Ma's level of skill. Wang Hao Da had amazing abilities, yet said he had only 50% of Ma's ability, even after many, many years as his student.
fake, not real, the student just like a actor, with out push just fall down easy. Don't believe it is real push hands, it is just like a show. Because I learned taiji and push hands many years, I know what is real or not real.
Hmmm.. just read some of the comments on this vid. Much said from both sides. I have been to Shanghai and learnt push hands form one of his students who features in the video falling drunkenly about as someone put it. My teacher is not a shade on his master, but he is scary enough. This is a public display in the park. Indoor techniques which can kill people are not practised openly like this, they are taught in secret. I'm sure that those of you who rubbish this will also rubbish me, oh well...
still tho i think that against a great middleweight in mma like anthony jhonson cud destroy him...but i think i cud to by distrupting his initial movements by a system that i created on my own..its kinda like a extention of jkd..because jkd was incomplete but its foundation is very strong i think for cultivating ur potential. i think if this guy mixed in some jkd or king fu with his current style he cud b very very deadly..thats the thing with eastern arts u only get BETTER with age and wisdom
haha i knw dude..i wrote that porposley so u wud send me a comment that wud further explain ur views on him and m glad ur open enough to realize that YES just because he is gud at this paticular martial art..or just the movements it is hard to tell how well he wud apply it in a street fight..but i think that since he is a master at qigong he cud apply sum teqniques in a real fight but at the same time hes old and fat meaning hes not as athletic or agile..but he cud make up for it if he is lethal
this guy has an incredible center of balance! hes so sturdy when he applies the littlest amount of force he can totaly offbalance his apponents chi..like cause them to loose all within balance..idk much abt this martial art but a master like him rly makes the most of it even if he is bound by it
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
Don't do Tai chi, but do wing chun. Wing chun is a mix of soft styles like tai chi and harder styles of kung fu. From what I understand 'soft kung fu styles' like tai chi aim to maximise your force and power by using correct body posture, positioning and relaxation - it does have validity and does work. But its not magic. This old master may well have been truly devastating in his prime, but in this demonstration out of respect for an old master the partner exaggerates his power
people have no idea what they are witnessing... this is one of the most dangerous masters of all time. He would unequivocally ruin any opponent when he was alive
I would appear that all his "opponents" are either wildly intoxicated or have had their inner ears damaged or surgically removed. He's barely pushing them and they're stumbling backwards like they got hit by a bus.
PS - Videoposter: What is "eF purposes" with regards to removing this video? What do you mean?
try tai-chi and learn pushing hands if you can find a notable teacher (difficult in the US, most US teachers I found are the couple year-trained tai-chi "masters"), in years of practice eventually your master will demonstrate with you and to you how real internal power feels like
I really don't know what to make of this sort of thing.
I'm not going to be as ignorant as to say it's fake, yet im not going to be as foolish as to believe it. Untill i personaly experiance it, then i'll reserve my opinion
@nithorry Very well thought. This video shows more truth than most of the other movies. This master is only in small part 'played upon' by the opponent, who might be respectful to him for his old age (try to imagine the Chinese way of honor to elders). The force this master has in his arms (however it seems too much external power) gives him more genuine power then I have seen in many others. Indeed, don't criticize, yet be critical, until proven otherwise and then, still know that tomorrow...
@maddehaan You point out an excellent problem with this video (indeed with this so-called master). He's using arm strength for almost all his power generation. If he were a real master doing real techniques you'd see him generating power with his hips, waist, legs, and body weight. You'd see him deflecting the pushes rather than fighting them with brute force. It all screams fake.
@PissedFechtmeister And you are an expert of Taiji in what way? Not all power is visible. Since you do not understand the concept of rooting in Chinese internal martial arts or the way training is performed, there is no point to discuss anything with you. that they have a strange moving pattern does not make him fake anyway. This is taiji, not boxing (where the hip is really obvious).
@nithorry This is real, im just tired and sick of people believing all the external martial arts and believing that tai chi is merely but a wimpy excercise. Which it is very healthy. but is also a form that you must think and utilize it yourself. Thats why they have push hands. A skilled master does not have to move much inorder to make a person lose there balance.
The problem with people commenting all these bad things about this master is they themselves have never met anyone at this level. They are very hard to find. I have found masters that can do this and it is real. Very complicated what they are doing and no you can not learn this over night. Even if you pay one million dollars. Even they teach you can you understand the teaching. Tai Chi is the hardest art I ever learned. But the most rewarding.
@PissedFechtmeister : Yeah right, so if you loose your balance you rather just bang your head in the ground than trying to get it back by moving the legs until you get it back?
@actofbalance What I'm saying is that this is completely fake. People don't move like that when they're thrown off balance. They are crappy actors. I'm not saying Tai Chi is fake (I've studied it and I know it isn't); just that this video is.
@PissedFechtmeister So after almost 80 years of practising Taiji would lead to faking it you mean? I have not met any master of that level, but I would not call them fake after doing 80 years of taiji.
@PissedFechtmeister Maybe your saying that it is completely fake? Ma Yu Liang practiced taiji from he was 18 and got to be almost 100, so yes I can infer that from what you said.
@actofbalance I'm saying that the video is fake. I don't care if this guy has been doing Tai Chi for a thousand years. It's fake. This is not how people move when they're thrown off balance. This is how people move when they're pretending to be thrown off balance and have terrible acting skills. I don't know why he's faking it (propaganda or his students don't want to embarass him by beating him).
@PissedFechtmeister No of course, all are melded in the same western form that Descartes and Newton made hundreds of years ago and since this is not your movingpattern, no other man can move like this and to your vast experience (?) with taiji masters makes you qualified to judge 6,5 billions of people.
@actofbalance People are built essentially the same the world over. The laws of physics are the same everywhere. People don't move like this unless they're crappy actors. Don't take my word for it. Video someone knocking you off balance and you'll see how people move.
@PissedFechtmeister Ok, so the pygmes, the eskimos and germans are all built the same? Get real, there are all different sizes and people are stiff or not stiff, even if they all have the same basic anathomy does not mean they have the same sence of balance or moving pattern or like to hit the ground when they loose balance.
@PissedFechtmeister Nice behaviour. Your 'broad perspective' on replying to videos and choosing your content, shows you have much anger and are searching for answers. However this can not be found by trying to 'proof' you can 'wrong' another. First forget about wrong or right, fake or real, if the intention is true, then it all doesn't matter.
the guys pushing hand with the master is exaggerating some of their movements. AKA faking. The master's skills are true, but the students are fail fakers
How can a frog in a well talk about the ocean when all he knows are the boundaries of his well...
All you disbelievers out there need to go and learn and practice and then practice for another 60 years....
this guy is the real deal of high level skills, and your comments show disrespect to a great man. That attitude will prevent you from understanding anyway
If you people can't see that the partner is clearly jumping back in this demonstration, then I truly pity you. You are in the lock of 'Emperor's New Clothes ' syndrome. This sort of demonstration is depressing to see.
Read my comment again. I made no comment regarding the ability of the 'master'. My comment was referring to the clowns exagerating their movements to impress a crowd. I have moved with many great internal stylists and came to realise that many students pretend to go flying to engratiate themselves with their master. Explain why only students go flying back and non students don't.... That is 'emporer's new clothes' syndrome.
Here's an explanation: Ma Yueliang is returning the force his partners are giving him. Hence, people with internal power (e.g. his students) go flying while people without integration don't.
Is it then true that Taiji is only effective against other Taiji practitioners? No, because a receiver whose structure collapses will be open for a hit. The receiver who bounces is in a safer place.
That said, there are ways to bounce an untrained person. I see it done all the time.
Im referring to all the exaggerated movements of the masters partners. They are clearly adding their own unnecessary movements to impress the crowd which is commonly known as faking. This is pretty common behavior amongst students of Chinese arts and these antics don't fool anyone with actual martial arts experience, but it does seem to fool the inexperienced jet li fanboys. I find it depressing because that sort of fakery does not help show the truth of the art.
This particular master is known for his use of energy, which makes the body respond in strange ways.. I wouldn't be so quick to judge this video as "depressing" or misleading..
Obviously the most peculiar part is @ 2:02.. Watch the old man's right wrist at the very end of that move.. you can see him "release" the guy, by pointing his hand upward, and thats when the guy falls... Thats very subtle, and would be hard to fake/time, if one was trying to..
if you would like to see the higher levels of taiji i think you should see wee kee jin he come to norwich at 28 march not got long comes to the uk twice a year good luck on your way
Having practiced tui shou for over 30 years, I can assure you that this is the real thing, demonstrated by a true master of the art. I've experienced it myself, and let me tell you, to approach a person working at this level of mastery and to suddenly be simply unable to stand is an uncanny sensation--so incongruous that you may find yourself laughing even as you go flying. The sensitivity is such that even your tiniest motion is read and used to uproot you. You just don't have a chance.
Perhaps your 30 years of tui shou practice have been in vain. Perhaps the movements you seek in the masters body are so subtle that you cannot see them Does not mean they are not there.
Time spent training is not the same as correct training.
Are you replying to me? I have no idea what you're talking about. Have you ever pushed with somebody who has this level of skill? I have, many times. Of course you can't see the movements. That's the whole idea. If you could, they'd be too large and slow to be truly effective.
Ma Yu Liang is a very famous tai chi master. That's why I was very disappointed in this demonstration. The person he is pushing hands with is playing along. Power is not generated this way. It's very disappointing. I expected better.
true that, me too. peoples here think that becuse i find that fake, i disrespect his practice and the fact he devoted his life to taiji. maybe he understood things, but the fact you learnt all your life doesn't mean that you understood. the fact is that lots of these so called great masters are overrated and don't have obviously reached a kai wu
The better a student is, the more he will "play along", if he would "play along" perfectly the master would not be able to do these things to him.
Maybe they should practice push hands with wrestlers, tai chi practicioners will always "play along" instinctively... push hands is about playing along until someone shows an opening...
I totally agree with your comment, No matter how good the master is power has to be generated somewhere. Now only this, but the leg position is not one where you can withstand pushes whatsoever
I can assure people doubting this that this IS real. I have been privaledged enough to push hands with people of great ability, like this guy. Its simple physics of using even the slightest overbalance or unrootedness of an attacker and maniuplating or adding to it at exactly the right angle and exactly the right force. You can send people meters with just the flick of a wrist at the right point, that is what practical internal martial arts are all about.
A classic video for sure! It would have been an honor to have studied with Liang. What a great show of push hands...thanks for taking the time to post. It is appreciated.
thanks for posting. to those of you saying "fake", you don't understand what is going on. they are playing a game, but the skill is real, and that skill transfers very well to fighting. Ma was the real deal, the guy studied taiji his whole life, and he got very good. consider showing some respect for what you don't understand...
If you want to experience everything first hand, the knowledge you'll gain will be limited by this fact.
Look at the setting, the age of the man doing it etc. I think things like these are treasures and real. Just because it is not documented and not understood my modern science, it will not be known by all. I am grateful for this.
I guess only if you actually experience how "Jing" works on you in reality, it is hard to discuss meaningfully about this video or some others in this regard.
"Punch that old dude" ?
"the young dude giving the master leeway"?
No chance at all, LOL, but your wild speculations are fully understandable.
Perhaps you could find a master who can manage "Jing" to experience in actual first. There are some around.
BTW, do NOT try to experience "short Jing", ok ? :)
wow the great amount of time you have to invest to have chi like that, you can defend with out a single blow being thrown...wow amazing i cant stop watching the video :| its almost scary lol
the young dude is giving the master leeway its a show not something to show chi. he is showing a physical way of redirecting some one elses wieght. study the art before judging.
yeah. He's not even touching the guy... Either people need to come out and make the bold claim: "there is magic! believe! Phuck Physics!" ... or give up the self-delusion..
i cant stand these magic pushhands.eleos someone to show the root the simple energy of this expression like stickinhands and not have to do ............anyway far away from tao
Also, why is it that you train what I assume is a westernized martial art? What drives you to do so? It was Lao Tzu who said, those who control others are mighty, but those who control themselves are stronger still. It appears, at least from what I've seen on tv, that ego is something that is encouraged, which does disturb me a bit. When one possesses great power, in any form, they must also understand the responsibility to fellow man that comes with that power.
Normally I do not respond to comments on videos, but I had to jump in on this one. Medulla, how does this violate the law of conservation of energy? I'm just curious, since you seem to have a background in martial arts and understand the principles of Tai Chi, how it violates the law of conservation of energy. I'm also curious as to why someone wouldn't be able to defend themselves with Tai Chi? This is a training exercise to used to develop grounding and a feel for your opponents as well.
• He is 93 a here and is one of the most respected 20th century masters of any martial art.
• this demo of tuishou principles uses skilled students who politely exaggerate for the demo. It's not a fight.
• No 93 year old would enter the UFC and no MMA fighter worth their salt would challenge him.
• I have spoken to people who crossed hands with Master Ma, and he was still formidable, even in his 80's. He quit taking challenges before he turned 90.
Ma Yueh Liang was taught Tai Chi by Wu Jian Quan who was a hereditary Manchu cavalry officer of the Yellow Banner as well as the Imperial Guards Brigade and a body guard to the Emperor of China. He knew plenty about how to fight.
This is actually sooo good. I watched it a while back and thought the same. Now I understand more and I'm still thinking "Wow, so smooth."
nerlind 1 week ago
93 years old О_о
TheMidavchik 5 months ago
meh
statisticool 7 months ago
I trained with Ma Yueh Liang's last disciple Grandmaster Johnny Lee and I can say being an ignorant American there is a lot out there that western science has yet to discover in terms of what the human body is capable of. Oh btw the comment someone made about silk reeling is 100% correct. Now Chen Fake there's someone like Master Ma we should all strive to emulate.
mizong84 9 months ago
Just marvellous!!! Phantastic.
taijiartrock 9 months ago
Clear energy projection skills. After 70 years of practicing in an internal art you don't move externally anymore, unless you are a dummy, like the youngsters in this forum who comment so easily about fake. What are you saying? That the master should sweat, for you to be able to see the movement of energy from earth to his hands?
But tai chi is not an art everyone can understand. If so, the world would be a perfect place, full of balance, respect to nature and understanding of life's purpose
travelanddo 10 months ago 4
This is one of those things you have to see for your self, however My master can bend metal around his thumb standing on one leg so I can see how the master can hold of a guys push. My grand master was pushed by 13 guys in a line one behind the other and they could not push him. so I believe that there is such a thing as this. I have also seen videos like this that are not real so I understand the lack of trust.
jmorrisette69 11 months ago
@jmorrisette69 When you have a bunch of guys pushing, only the front guy exerts force. A common trick which we debunked in 4th grade. This shouldn't be construed as disrespect for your master, but if he is wise he will avoid such demonstrations, because while they are thrilling to the uninitiated, they show weakness if you know about transmission of force.
sukiari 4 months ago
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bfrizos 11 months ago
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ghfjtyufghdfj 11 months ago
Great video excellent taiji.
kcdesigns 1 year ago
But really though, there isn't any peng/jing in Chenstyle? is that what your saying?
dekal1 1 year ago
@dekal1 All pushing that I have seen in chen style and even many so called yang styles is physical pushing/physical strength. Can you post a video of Chen tai chi pushing hands with real internal power? I would like to see it.
smr144 1 year ago
@smr144 Its all real internal power if the person is practicing correctly. It is a very combative style. Not very much pushing involved but a lot of locks, breaks and throws. A lot of Fa Jing. Snapping type of Fajing built from silk reeling.
dekal1 1 year ago
@dekal1 Locks, breaks and throws... Sounds like jujitsu.
smr144 1 year ago
@smr144 Sounds like Tai Chi to me. I practice Chen style. Just because ther'es not much pushing its not Tai Chi? In a fight im not going to push somebody im going to take htem out as fast as I can. Don't get too caught up in Peng/Jing its about defending yourself. I'm not going to sit here and debate with you. Chen style Tai Chi is one of the OLDEST forms of Tai Chi there is. There are transcriptions.
dekal1 1 year ago
Tai Chi is about internal power and push-hands is not a martial technique but rather a way to refine one's energy. Push (not to be confuse w/ push-hands) is a counter technique for the shoulder strike. The reality is that Chen style doesn't cultivate internal power. Chen style is Shaolin Boxing with a bit of Tai Chi thrown in. In brief, some members of the Chen Clan of Henan Province wanted to cash in on Tai Chi's popularity so they invented a false genealogy and put forward their mish-mash of..
smr144 1 year ago
@dekal1 ...Chen Family Pao Chui and Tai Chi as the original Tai Chi. China's leading Tai Chi historian Wu Tu-nan exploded this myth in 'A Research into Tai Chi Chuan' (written in Chinese and published in 1986) which describes his visit to the Chen family village in 1917. Real tai chi is the fruit of Daoism and has to do with the cultivation, conservation and refinement of energy (Peng-jing). You practice Chen style to defend yourself, well Buddy good luck with that.
smr144 1 year ago
@smr144 Everyone is welcome to their own opinion. Go look up the historical figures of Chen family and you will find that it is a very very effective self defense. Have you read the Canon of Chen Family Tai Chi? Do you know who ChenXiaoWang is? How about Chen Fake?
dekal1 1 year ago
@dekal1 "Everyone is welcome to their own opinion." No one has posted here more wise words than those. Peace and good luck in your practice.
smr144 1 year ago
@smr144 You also my friend.
dekal1 1 year ago
lol he has so much Jing!
dekal1 1 year ago
It says chentaichi.info in the left side of the video but this is not chen style. This is Wu style, which came from Yang style :o)
smr144 1 year ago
@smr144 Which came from Chen style ; o)
dekal1 1 year ago
@dekal1 Really? If Yang came from Chen, why is that Yang doesn't look at all like Chen?? Because the similarities between Yang and Wu/Sung styles are obvious. Don't you think so? Why is that the biggest warriors ever in the history of tai chi, Yang Lu Chan and his progeny, are from Yang Style and not Chen Style?? Let's set the record strait: Yang Lu Chan learned his system from a man who's last name was Chen. But that doesn't mean that that there was a Chen family style.
smr144 1 year ago
@smr144 I practice Chen style and we have Peng-Jing. I wondered the same thing when I picked it up. History has it that ChenWangTing tauht Yang Lu Chan, and I believe he said, you can teach this, but you can't teach Chen family. You have to call it something else. Because Every artist is different, Peng/Jing techniques were probably added by Yang Lu Chan or maybe were emphasized on it. I don't know, but Chen XiaoWang head of Chen village says it was Chen Wang Ting and Yang Lu Chan. I dont know.
dekal1 1 year ago
@dekal1 Oh, really... Why is that Chen style uses always physical push and not real peng-jing???
smr144 1 year ago
@smr144 Chen style is very very combative. I just practiced with a group of Yang practitioners in Riverside California and they are very very good. I see a lot of similarities in Yang and Chen style. The palm is face outward in Chen style. There is more snapping movements, more Chin Na. Or equal Chin na. The people in Riverside encompass a lot of Chin Na in their Yang style. They are very very skilled.
dekal1 1 year ago
the beauty of taichi is that its a kind practice for any age; young or old can benefit
zenburger 1 year ago
Hard to understand TaiChi really, most comments seem to be from ignorant or believers. Experience something like what you see here, then maybe you can know!!
Macmtk 1 year ago
Stupid people only believe in muscle as in muscle heads.
The mind is more powerful than the body but can you explain that to a dummy like the MMA heads??? No way.
theangelrules007 1 year ago
Comment removed
novevite 1 year ago
Anybody else FEELING the movements? It's like the old man is basically playing with the other guy's balance, "sending" him into specific patterns, making him go away... Most of the force is actual gravity i think.
Pushing hands is a taijiquan exercise, right? I'd like to do that :)
novevite 1 year ago 3
It's not so mysterious. The key is two parted, proper rooting and sensitivity to lines of force. It takes tons of practice but anybody can reach this level of skill.
liverqiconstraint 1 year ago
Search his name, then check out the video just below this one. Its alot clearer and you can see the movements alot better.
/watch?v=8e1DSHbnsn4
TechWellivrO 1 year ago
This is 93 years of training and practice. Its not just some commoner old man, Ma Yueh Liang was among one of the greatest masters in china.
TechWellivrO 1 year ago
This is too sad. I am looking for real pushing hands videos, and all I can find is these videos of people jumping away from an old man as if he had pushed them away.
requemao 1 year ago
hahaha sooooo fake. the acting is terrible!
cjlowe1970 1 year ago
mi inchino al mio maestro (sifuuuuuuuuuuuu)
adamilre 1 year ago
I'll take a stab at this.I would say he flows from circular to linear movement.Simply put circular deflection to linear pushing but not striking.
Kelvinkid100 1 year ago
I guess what I'm saying is you keep saying I'm missing concept, but you aren't saying what that concept is. I want a real ansawer, not BS. First, you need to identify the principle as physical or "spiritual energy," and if it is physical, tell me the law or rule or fact I am violating or missing. Feel free to use equations, if you'd like, if it's physical. For example... You can not "compress" a fluid object, only a rigid object (think a string vs. a rod.)
mrtempertantrum 1 year ago
You have not countered a single one of my arguments. Ironically, it's like conversational push hands talking to you!
You also assume I have no experience with push hands or tai chi. While I am primarily a karateka, I ahve to a lesser degree experience with more energy based arts, like Aikido, Hung gar, Tai chi, and Hsing yi. The human body and the laws of physics are the same in all these cases. Have to taken physics, or are you just ignoring Newtons Laws? Or is this beyond physics? :-p
mrtempertantrum 1 year ago
Unless you are saying that he is directly using his energy to push these people around without touching them... then there is no physical way to explain why this people are falling all over themselves. Simply look at the body mechanics. I'd also like to focus on the way his opponents "stutter step." Quite frankly... wtf is that? And the way they "fall" is completely unnatural, forced. If they relaxed, could he still push them? Doubt it. So.. is he throwing some kind of provable energy?
mrtempertantrum 1 year ago
he is touching them
Kippest 1 year ago
And? Touching is necessary but not sufficient. Imagine: You want to move someone, your only contact with them is your hand on their hand, and their arm is extended directly towards you. If you push on their arm they could simply collapse their arm, or move around it push hands style. It looks like these guys tense up intentionally to try and get pushed away. The physics dont' add up. (Did I mention I'm an engineer? So I think I have a good grip on mechanics...) I cry foul.
mrtempertantrum 1 year ago
this is because the evidence upon which you base your conclusion on is insufficient.
watch more intermediate level pushing hands and practicing tai chi with a long time practitioner will help you develop the necessary premises upon which to draw more logically correct conclusions as seen in this video. Ma Yu Liang was a scientist himself by the way
Kippest 1 year ago
That doesn't help either. Being a medical doctor says nothing about a person's understanding of physics/mechanics; that's analogous to suggesting a PhD Physicist knows about the effects of hormones on cellular respiration.
Again, unless you are suggesting that his force defies the laws of physics for rigid and non-rigid bodies, then clearly something is amiss. Remember... these laws are universal - ie, they apply to ALL things which have EVER been tested by scientists.
mrtempertantrum 1 year ago
Additionally, your suggestion of looking at a more complicated instance doesn't make sense. That would just be more to distract us away from the fundamental mechanics at work, right? Enlighten me to what these "necessary premises" are, please.
mrtempertantrum 1 year ago
the degree to which you are attempting to weigh a fully logical or 'scientific' analysis of this video is evidently not to the fullest. You are only attacking a Side note I included in my reply that he was a scientist. You ignored my suggestion of practicing tai chi under a qualified teacher (science has proven tremendous health benefits, so there's a good reason to do that), and watch intermediate level push hands (it's more obviously real to the untrained eye)
these two premises will help
Kippest 1 year ago
@mrtempertantrum You seem to be under the assumption that science CAN test ALL things, which is simply not true.
menith 1 year ago
@menith. Ok. So you're saying there is some sort of chi being used to allow him to violate standard physical laws? That goes beyond Newtonian or even particle physics? Essentially, "magic"?
mrtempertantrum 1 year ago
let's not forget that the math theories stated above are just that, theories. The are just waiting to be dis-proven or expanded upon. And it is true, science cannot explain everything.
simplyjbr 1 year ago
@simplyjbr I think you might be confused about the nature of the term "theory" in a scientific context, and the depth of testing which backs it up. This is as opposed to the colloquial term "theory," which means an idea or guess. This would be a hypothesis, NOT a theory, in science. Want to see a scientist's brain explode? Tell them you climate change or evolution are "just" theories! Also, I'm talking about laws of physics, not theories.
mrtempertantrum 1 year ago
@simplyjbr Regardless, if you can violate these laws or theories, EVERY scientist on the planet would be dieing to get a hold of you to study you. The truth is, I DO believe in things that are beyond the physical. However, I'm not so foolish as to believe this crock. Do it with a non-student. Do it with a well trained person from another art. This is clearly staged... or magic. Can someone just stand up and say it's magic, please?
mrtempertantrum 1 year ago
@simplyjbr your mind is too simple to say that science cannot explain everything. it's just not yet found.
qiankundanuoyi1 1 year ago
@mrtempertantrum it's not. it's an energy that can be calculated, but not yet found. it flows through the body and emit force. Same to gravity( can be calculated too)
qiankundanuoyi1 1 year ago
I agree with lonesomesundown.
This is a beautiful video.
Many people will not understand how it's done. Me included. It may look fake but from my limited years in training i can tell you it's not. I saw my teacher demonstrate some things wich i do not understand till this day, and probably never will. To truly understand the finer points you are learning a lifetime and still only grasp a percentage of what is going on in this video.
Thank you for posting this video!
Morpheus01984 1 year ago
Totally real, but really hard to comprehend unless you actually work with someone who can do this. I worked with one of Ma's students and I agree that while this looks fake it is not. Until you work with this style of push hands you cannot understand what is happening or why. That is the difficulty of understanding internal energy. Get a good teacher and figure it out.
Lonesomesundown 1 year ago
you have done this, how does it work i dont understant he isnt pushing him and i understand qi as im in my 2nd year of an accupuncture and chinese med course
bedboundmonkey 1 year ago
Watch the Ma interview: 10 yrs to find his chi, 30 more to figure out how to use it. I had 12 yrs martial arts before starting tai chi 24 yrs ago - and I struggle to understand and do 1% of what Ma could do. This is a lifelong pursuit, not a simple trick to be mastered in a day. There is no secret to playing the piano, yet how much effort would it take to become a premier concert pianist? Ma was the best. I appreciate that this video was posted and hope it inspires some to follow Ma's path.
Lonesomesundown 1 year ago
How it is done: 1) Begin with the practice standing meditation - a minimum of one hour a day, every day, for one year under the guidance of a qualified teacher. 2) If you complete that course you will not need any more advice from me or anyone else on YouTube!
Lonesomesundown 1 year ago
tanx, where is he from id love to go see it in person
bedboundmonkey 1 year ago
Ma died about 1993. His senior student Wang Hao Da died 2003. Search for their students in China (Beijing?). They are not the only ones who train this style, but I don't know any others by name. I seriously doubt anyone you find will have Ma's level of skill. Wang Hao Da had amazing abilities, yet said he had only 50% of Ma's ability, even after many, many years as his student.
Lonesomesundown 1 year ago
ya most look them up,planning to head to china sometime next yr,should be interesting, tanx
bedboundmonkey 1 year ago
Ma's son lives in Germany and still teaches around Europe.
JanBloem 1 year ago
fake, not real, the student just like a actor, with out push just fall down easy. Don't believe it is real push hands, it is just like a show. Because I learned taiji and push hands many years, I know what is real or not real.
baiyand 1 year ago
Hmmm.. just read some of the comments on this vid. Much said from both sides. I have been to Shanghai and learnt push hands form one of his students who features in the video falling drunkenly about as someone put it. My teacher is not a shade on his master, but he is scary enough. This is a public display in the park. Indoor techniques which can kill people are not practised openly like this, they are taught in secret. I'm sure that those of you who rubbish this will also rubbish me, oh well...
Poplarry 1 year ago
still tho i think that against a great middleweight in mma like anthony jhonson cud destroy him...but i think i cud to by distrupting his initial movements by a system that i created on my own..its kinda like a extention of jkd..because jkd was incomplete but its foundation is very strong i think for cultivating ur potential. i think if this guy mixed in some jkd or king fu with his current style he cud b very very deadly..thats the thing with eastern arts u only get BETTER with age and wisdom
AandJness 2 years ago
haha i knw dude..i wrote that porposley so u wud send me a comment that wud further explain ur views on him and m glad ur open enough to realize that YES just because he is gud at this paticular martial art..or just the movements it is hard to tell how well he wud apply it in a street fight..but i think that since he is a master at qigong he cud apply sum teqniques in a real fight but at the same time hes old and fat meaning hes not as athletic or agile..but he cud make up for it if he is lethal
AandJness 2 years ago
this guy has an incredible center of balance! hes so sturdy when he applies the littlest amount of force he can totaly offbalance his apponents chi..like cause them to loose all within balance..idk much abt this martial art but a master like him rly makes the most of it even if he is bound by it
AandJness 2 years ago
so what r u trying to say then? that this old guy is actualy good?
AandJness 2 years ago
if this is real then i can kamehameha out of my big toe
intrnalbleedingizfun 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Don't do Tai chi, but do wing chun. Wing chun is a mix of soft styles like tai chi and harder styles of kung fu. From what I understand 'soft kung fu styles' like tai chi aim to maximise your force and power by using correct body posture, positioning and relaxation - it does have validity and does work. But its not magic. This old master may well have been truly devastating in his prime, but in this demonstration out of respect for an old master the partner exaggerates his power
willfoggon 2 years ago
people have no idea what they are witnessing... this is one of the most dangerous masters of all time. He would unequivocally ruin any opponent when he was alive
jonathan5185 2 years ago 6
I would appear that all his "opponents" are either wildly intoxicated or have had their inner ears damaged or surgically removed. He's barely pushing them and they're stumbling backwards like they got hit by a bus.
PS - Videoposter: What is "eF purposes" with regards to removing this video? What do you mean?
GangreneVagina 2 years ago
try tai-chi and learn pushing hands if you can find a notable teacher (difficult in the US, most US teachers I found are the couple year-trained tai-chi "masters"), in years of practice eventually your master will demonstrate with you and to you how real internal power feels like
Kippest 2 years ago
not if he was alive during the time bruce lee was at his prime..
AandJness 2 years ago
I agree with Nithorry...it's the old 'Snake oil salesman/plant in the crowd' trick perhaps.
MicksZoo 2 years ago
Me and the 93 year old! Lets have it!
Britishmark77 2 years ago
haha u wud probably kick his ass dude its not even a fair fight lol
AandJness 2 years ago
不笑不足以为道
jooloog 2 years ago
ez egy faszsag
raymi23 2 years ago
I really don't know what to make of this sort of thing.
I'm not going to be as ignorant as to say it's fake, yet im not going to be as foolish as to believe it. Untill i personaly experiance it, then i'll reserve my opinion
nithorry 2 years ago 17
@nithorry Very well thought. This video shows more truth than most of the other movies. This master is only in small part 'played upon' by the opponent, who might be respectful to him for his old age (try to imagine the Chinese way of honor to elders). The force this master has in his arms (however it seems too much external power) gives him more genuine power then I have seen in many others. Indeed, don't criticize, yet be critical, until proven otherwise and then, still know that tomorrow...
maddehaan 1 year ago
@maddehaan You point out an excellent problem with this video (indeed with this so-called master). He's using arm strength for almost all his power generation. If he were a real master doing real techniques you'd see him generating power with his hips, waist, legs, and body weight. You'd see him deflecting the pushes rather than fighting them with brute force. It all screams fake.
PissedFechtmeister 1 year ago
@PissedFechtmeister And you are an expert of Taiji in what way? Not all power is visible. Since you do not understand the concept of rooting in Chinese internal martial arts or the way training is performed, there is no point to discuss anything with you. that they have a strange moving pattern does not make him fake anyway. This is taiji, not boxing (where the hip is really obvious).
actofbalance 1 year ago
@nithorry This is real, im just tired and sick of people believing all the external martial arts and believing that tai chi is merely but a wimpy excercise. Which it is very healthy. but is also a form that you must think and utilize it yourself. Thats why they have push hands. A skilled master does not have to move much inorder to make a person lose there balance.
jmangonepro 1 year ago
@nithorry You can always just buy a ticket and try to look for this guy. Do I wonder if he really does get "volunteers"
trebekalex 1 year ago
The problem with people commenting all these bad things about this master is they themselves have never met anyone at this level. They are very hard to find. I have found masters that can do this and it is real. Very complicated what they are doing and no you can not learn this over night. Even if you pay one million dollars. Even they teach you can you understand the teaching. Tai Chi is the hardest art I ever learned. But the most rewarding.
chiman1000 2 years ago 15
@chiman1000 why do these guys look so goofy when they fall off balance and take fourty steps backwards in a three second time span?
Blsoe 1 year ago
@Blsoe Because they're faking it.
PissedFechtmeister 1 year ago
@PissedFechtmeister : Yeah right, so if you loose your balance you rather just bang your head in the ground than trying to get it back by moving the legs until you get it back?
actofbalance 1 year ago
@actofbalance What I'm saying is that this is completely fake. People don't move like that when they're thrown off balance. They are crappy actors. I'm not saying Tai Chi is fake (I've studied it and I know it isn't); just that this video is.
PissedFechtmeister 1 year ago
@PissedFechtmeister So after almost 80 years of practising Taiji would lead to faking it you mean? I have not met any master of that level, but I would not call them fake after doing 80 years of taiji.
actofbalance 1 year ago
@actofbalance I don't know how you infer that from anything I said.
PissedFechtmeister 1 year ago
@PissedFechtmeister Maybe your saying that it is completely fake? Ma Yu Liang practiced taiji from he was 18 and got to be almost 100, so yes I can infer that from what you said.
actofbalance 1 year ago
@actofbalance I'm saying that the video is fake. I don't care if this guy has been doing Tai Chi for a thousand years. It's fake. This is not how people move when they're thrown off balance. This is how people move when they're pretending to be thrown off balance and have terrible acting skills. I don't know why he's faking it (propaganda or his students don't want to embarass him by beating him).
PissedFechtmeister 1 year ago
@PissedFechtmeister No of course, all are melded in the same western form that Descartes and Newton made hundreds of years ago and since this is not your movingpattern, no other man can move like this and to your vast experience (?) with taiji masters makes you qualified to judge 6,5 billions of people.
actofbalance 1 year ago
@actofbalance People are built essentially the same the world over. The laws of physics are the same everywhere. People don't move like this unless they're crappy actors. Don't take my word for it. Video someone knocking you off balance and you'll see how people move.
PissedFechtmeister 1 year ago
@PissedFechtmeister Ok, so the pygmes, the eskimos and germans are all built the same? Get real, there are all different sizes and people are stiff or not stiff, even if they all have the same basic anathomy does not mean they have the same sence of balance or moving pattern or like to hit the ground when they loose balance.
actofbalance 1 year ago
@PissedFechtmeister Nice behaviour. Your 'broad perspective' on replying to videos and choosing your content, shows you have much anger and are searching for answers. However this can not be found by trying to 'proof' you can 'wrong' another. First forget about wrong or right, fake or real, if the intention is true, then it all doesn't matter.
maddehaan 1 year ago
@maddehaan Unlike apparently you, I don't have the magical ability to determine someone's true intentions from a video.
PissedFechtmeister 1 year ago
the guys pushing hand with the master is exaggerating some of their movements. AKA faking. The master's skills are true, but the students are fail fakers
TheSenseofTouch 2 years ago
that's nice. I'll be honest and say it looks like those guys falling back are faking the whole thing though.
I wanna try this drill with him though. It'd be so awesome!
Well, whether this is fake or real, I'm going to ignore that and just say this is a nice demonstration.
fdesa12 2 years ago
How can a frog in a well talk about the ocean when all he knows are the boundaries of his well...
All you disbelievers out there need to go and learn and practice and then practice for another 60 years....
this guy is the real deal of high level skills, and your comments show disrespect to a great man. That attitude will prevent you from understanding anyway
goldendry 2 years ago 2
or just hit him with RYUKEN!
rickhorror 2 years ago
If you people can't see that the partner is clearly jumping back in this demonstration, then I truly pity you. You are in the lock of 'Emperor's New Clothes ' syndrome. This sort of demonstration is depressing to see.
aldridge1 2 years ago
Your mistaken about this man.. You should seek out some real taijichuan people and move around with them..
jekylfoot 2 years ago
Read my comment again. I made no comment regarding the ability of the 'master'. My comment was referring to the clowns exagerating their movements to impress a crowd. I have moved with many great internal stylists and came to realise that many students pretend to go flying to engratiate themselves with their master. Explain why only students go flying back and non students don't.... That is 'emporer's new clothes' syndrome.
aldridge1 2 years ago
@aldridge1
Here's an explanation: Ma Yueliang is returning the force his partners are giving him. Hence, people with internal power (e.g. his students) go flying while people without integration don't.
Is it then true that Taiji is only effective against other Taiji practitioners? No, because a receiver whose structure collapses will be open for a hit. The receiver who bounces is in a safer place.
That said, there are ways to bounce an untrained person. I see it done all the time.
eastpaw 1 year ago
which part of this video are you referring to exactly?
jekylfoot 2 years ago
Im referring to all the exaggerated movements of the masters partners. They are clearly adding their own unnecessary movements to impress the crowd which is commonly known as faking. This is pretty common behavior amongst students of Chinese arts and these antics don't fool anyone with actual martial arts experience, but it does seem to fool the inexperienced jet li fanboys. I find it depressing because that sort of fakery does not help show the truth of the art.
aldridge1 2 years ago
This particular master is known for his use of energy, which makes the body respond in strange ways.. I wouldn't be so quick to judge this video as "depressing" or misleading..
Obviously the most peculiar part is @ 2:02.. Watch the old man's right wrist at the very end of that move.. you can see him "release" the guy, by pointing his hand upward, and thats when the guy falls... Thats very subtle, and would be hard to fake/time, if one was trying to..
jekylfoot 2 years ago
overacting....
Russak86 2 years ago
To sum up, you guys are still menwaihan (laymen).
2007zmo 2 years ago
i would like to know more, where can i find him or his students
badboybrendan 2 years ago
if you would like to see the higher levels of taiji i think you should see wee kee jin he come to norwich at 28 march not got long comes to the uk twice a year good luck on your way
al70ok 2 years ago
Having practiced tui shou for over 30 years, I can assure you that this is the real thing, demonstrated by a true master of the art. I've experienced it myself, and let me tell you, to approach a person working at this level of mastery and to suddenly be simply unable to stand is an uncanny sensation--so incongruous that you may find yourself laughing even as you go flying. The sensitivity is such that even your tiniest motion is read and used to uproot you. You just don't have a chance.
DeviSamit 3 years ago 3
Perhaps your 30 years of tui shou practice have been in vain. Perhaps the movements you seek in the masters body are so subtle that you cannot see them Does not mean they are not there.
Time spent training is not the same as correct training.
spmmantisboy 2 years ago
Are you replying to me? I have no idea what you're talking about. Have you ever pushed with somebody who has this level of skill? I have, many times. Of course you can't see the movements. That's the whole idea. If you could, they'd be too large and slow to be truly effective.
DeviSamit 2 years ago
sorry reply was s'posed to be for deeschan
spmmantisboy 2 years ago
Ah. OK. Apology accepted.
DeviSamit 2 years ago
oh ok, so what's your answer then?
deeschan 2 years ago
wow it looks kinda fake :L
ojin333 2 years ago
Strange and hard to believe, but really not at all fake. Do some research on the man.
DeviSamit 2 years ago
I think this is real. If you do not know where the power comes from, it does not mean it is not existing.
casta2468 3 years ago 3
Ma Yu Liang is a very famous tai chi master. That's why I was very disappointed in this demonstration. The person he is pushing hands with is playing along. Power is not generated this way. It's very disappointing. I expected better.
kengullette 3 years ago
true that, me too. peoples here think that becuse i find that fake, i disrespect his practice and the fact he devoted his life to taiji. maybe he understood things, but the fact you learnt all your life doesn't mean that you understood. the fact is that lots of these so called great masters are overrated and don't have obviously reached a kai wu
btw, fa jing is real, but thats not fa jing here
deeschan 3 years ago
The better a student is, the more he will "play along", if he would "play along" perfectly the master would not be able to do these things to him.
Maybe they should practice push hands with wrestlers, tai chi practicioners will always "play along" instinctively... push hands is about playing along until someone shows an opening...
panguu 3 years ago
I totally agree with your comment, No matter how good the master is power has to be generated somewhere. Now only this, but the leg position is not one where you can withstand pushes whatsoever
sHuaiiRen 3 years ago
I don't think it is real....
I can't understand where his force comes from. From his waist or hip ("Kua")? I don't think so...
csray0201 3 years ago
nice man...
i have seen people do imposible things before..
so... i kind of belive in this...
(nothing is impossible... if you belive you can do it... then you can.. OBSERVE! dont jump off any cliff!)
Ang3lus4U 3 years ago
I can assure people doubting this that this IS real. I have been privaledged enough to push hands with people of great ability, like this guy. Its simple physics of using even the slightest overbalance or unrootedness of an attacker and maniuplating or adding to it at exactly the right angle and exactly the right force. You can send people meters with just the flick of a wrist at the right point, that is what practical internal martial arts are all about.
sigartyra 3 years ago 2
i'd like to learn this...
appleseed101 3 years ago
Thank you very much for this video!
haschid 3 years ago
A classic video for sure! It would have been an honor to have studied with Liang. What a great show of push hands...thanks for taking the time to post. It is appreciated.
usaveteran 3 years ago
thanks for posting. to those of you saying "fake", you don't understand what is going on. they are playing a game, but the skill is real, and that skill transfers very well to fighting. Ma was the real deal, the guy studied taiji his whole life, and he got very good. consider showing some respect for what you don't understand...
richardshapiroII 3 years ago 4
This comment has received too many negative votes show
soooo fake...
deeschan 3 years ago
go read up taichi
frisbee890 3 years ago 2
i've probably read as much as you, and nothing corroborates the help of devoted students to give credit to fake fa jing
deeschan 3 years ago
fake fajing is using physical strength.
mushupop 2 years ago
Very nice.
sspma 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Oh fuck.. two clown for the money
Mekkmester2 3 years ago
his student is only 89)
Cutedervish 3 years ago
Dun take it down man. i love this
qiankundanuoyi1 3 years ago
wonderful !
The Master is very famous at his taiji.
baguazhangchinese 3 years ago
taiji without Yi-Qi-Jin isn't even called taiji.
qi leads to the manifestation of jin.
those who doesn't believe go and try the full taijigong yourself
qiankundanuoyi1 3 years ago
I don't believe until it's tried on me
modernmartialartist 3 years ago
If you want to experience everything first hand, the knowledge you'll gain will be limited by this fact.
Look at the setting, the age of the man doing it etc. I think things like these are treasures and real. Just because it is not documented and not understood my modern science, it will not be known by all. I am grateful for this.
jhingajhoom 3 years ago 2
Young guy pushes air and falls down.
This is just a demo of a basic push hands exercise.
rmwerbin 3 years ago
wow. so many little wellfrogs talking about the ocean :)
it amuses me.
"pah! ocean! you talk nonsense! there is not any such thing, for if there was, surely we would have seen it by now!!
ive lived in this well for nearly two months, and believe me, if there was any such thing as an ocean, i would know about it!!"
idiots.
OldWuStyle 3 years ago
actually its more like 'playing music for the cows'- the cows dont understand, enjoy nor apreciate it
imbrd 3 years ago
music for cows?
hehe, not heard that one before :)
nice.
OldWuStyle 3 years ago
yeah its old chinese fable called 对牛弹琴dui niu tan qin; pretty good story to look into
imbrd 3 years ago
I guess only if you actually experience how "Jing" works on you in reality, it is hard to discuss meaningfully about this video or some others in this regard.
"Punch that old dude" ?
"the young dude giving the master leeway"?
No chance at all, LOL, but your wild speculations are fully understandable.
Perhaps you could find a master who can manage "Jing" to experience in actual first. There are some around.
BTW, do NOT try to experience "short Jing", ok ? :)
trinitywave 3 years ago
wow the great amount of time you have to invest to have chi like that, you can defend with out a single blow being thrown...wow amazing i cant stop watching the video :| its almost scary lol
penguino101 3 years ago
the young dude is giving the master leeway its a show not something to show chi. he is showing a physical way of redirecting some one elses wieght. study the art before judging.
zednep1 3 years ago
the young guy should just punch that old dude in the face.
weeitsfun 3 years ago
oh my GOD! What¨s that at 2:00 - 2:05 :-o I cant believe that!
proces23 3 years ago
thats why i think its partly fake... taichi is incredible at a high level but those Qi "invisible power" dont exist..
godraider 3 years ago
yeah. He's not even touching the guy... Either people need to come out and make the bold claim: "there is magic! believe! Phuck Physics!" ... or give up the self-delusion..
mrtempertantrum 1 year ago
WHAT A F*** ??? There is something like an invisible power?! I dont believe.. yes, I believe, but ... WTF??!!
proces23 3 years ago
i cant stand these magic pushhands.eleos someone to show the root the simple energy of this expression like stickinhands and not have to do ............anyway far away from tao
esagiles 3 years ago
what a pity...
andymach33 3 years ago
lol if you understand tai chi principles you wont see this as magic at all.
lbrother88 3 years ago
ok so you understand the tai chi principles and maybe im wrong the principles of a pathetic opponent.
esagiles 3 years ago
One cannot reflect in streaming water. Only those who know internal peace can give it to others.
Fireforge00 3 years ago
Also, why is it that you train what I assume is a westernized martial art? What drives you to do so? It was Lao Tzu who said, those who control others are mighty, but those who control themselves are stronger still. It appears, at least from what I've seen on tv, that ego is something that is encouraged, which does disturb me a bit. When one possesses great power, in any form, they must also understand the responsibility to fellow man that comes with that power.
Fireforge00 3 years ago
Normally I do not respond to comments on videos, but I had to jump in on this one. Medulla, how does this violate the law of conservation of energy? I'm just curious, since you seem to have a background in martial arts and understand the principles of Tai Chi, how it violates the law of conservation of energy. I'm also curious as to why someone wouldn't be able to defend themselves with Tai Chi? This is a training exercise to used to develop grounding and a feel for your opponents as well.
Fireforge00 3 years ago
Things to remember when you watch this video:
• He is 93 a here and is one of the most respected 20th century masters of any martial art.
• this demo of tuishou principles uses skilled students who politely exaggerate for the demo. It's not a fight.
• No 93 year old would enter the UFC and no MMA fighter worth their salt would challenge him.
• I have spoken to people who crossed hands with Master Ma, and he was still formidable, even in his 80's. He quit taking challenges before he turned 90.
taijiman7777 3 years ago
NCTN99, you are stupid, ignorant, arrogant and down right insulting.
blueplanes 3 years ago
Ma Yueh Liang was taught Tai Chi by Wu Jian Quan who was a hereditary Manchu cavalry officer of the Yellow Banner as well as the Imperial Guards Brigade and a body guard to the Emperor of China. He knew plenty about how to fight.
blueplanes 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Guys who play Chinese checkers are better prepared for a street fight than these guys.
MedullaPancreas 3 years ago
I rarely post, but to overlook the absurd ignorance of your comment, is a burden I do not wish to live with.
KeithMinders 3 years ago
*not yours Shifu, this was meant to be a reply to Medulla..
KeithMinders