Why is there evil in the world??? Response to Superman

[kairosmaxima]

To clarify, I am a Christian but have many confounding questions about the Bible and its origins. I read a post where you say that God did not create evil but allowed for its possibility (free will). Yet as alluded to in my first post, how can evil exist without God's creative power? I dont agree that God created evil as a path to punishment for not obeying Him before Adam and Eve had a choice. God would of had to of given creative powers to His favored angels, including lucy the punk lucifer...

[kairosmaxima]

If God designed our bodies (that have nerves). Then how was there no pain in the Garden? Also, God would not have allowed the Tree Of Knowledge without His consent. Free will as it is said. However, if He did not create evil, then surely He allowed lucifer to have creative power.

[hofisito]

@kairosmaxima 1. Because pain does not always equal suffering 2. You're sorta right, God does not create evil, evil is created by beings who have free will but aren't quite God so they mess up some times. The question is, is God at "fault" for creating beings with the capacity for evil, and I would argue no because I think free will is necessary for love.

[polopowers1]

Lets take this slow okay? Satan did the tempting God created the knowledge of evil yes or no.? Because Satan tempted the knowledge does not negate who created the knowledge. God created the knowledge of good and evil. Yes! He created it for His purpose not an innate virtue of His own but an attribute of His used to reveal His extolling Nature and redemption.Satan tempting does not make evil his creation.

[polopowers1]

Who created the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.? God created evil by knowledge not His innate Virtue. You have knowledge of evil you would not do. God created evil by knowledge called it good. Man powerless to handle the attribute of evil knowledge, sinned. But ultimately God created evil. Man cannot create virtue including evil. Adam ate equally evil and good and both are powerless in man to exercise perfectly.

[phatzky]

@polopowers1 No he didn't, we had a free will gifted by God and we used it against Him. It was actually so easy for Adam and Eve to ignore the tree, but what happened? Satan happened... :) Why blame God, when there's another source that drove us to sin in the first place? Satan chose to rebel against God because he wants to be God. Angels also had free will. I would've kicked Lucifer also out if I was God. You would've done the same thing! He wanted man to fall with him.

[polopowers1]

@phatzky God did create the tree of knowledge of good and evil read Gen 2&3. God called the tree good.Your a reasonable guy tell me where does free will come from.? How are you totally independent in your choices.? The will is driven by knowledge & experience sometimes emotion. But you are never independtly making a choice without some outside effect, it is impossible. Adam did what God created him for. God showed all flesh even without sin cannot inherit the kingdom of God.Flesh and blood fails

[phatzky]

@polopowers1 I never said God didn't create the tree. The tree was there so they can exercise free will. They either do the right or wrong thing. Like I said, it was easier for them to ignore it until Satan came to convince them of eating it. YES they all have free will otherwise they wouldn't be rebelling against God in the first place. Without free will, logically, they will act like remote controlled entities!

[phatzky]

@polopowers1 Perhaps a further illustration will help. If a person is asked, “Does cold exist?” the answer would likely be “yes.” However, this is incorrect. Cold does not exist. Cold is the absence of heat. Similarly, darkness does not exist; it is the absence of light. Evil is the absence of good, or better, evil is the absence of God. God did not have to create evil, but rather only allow for the absence of good.

[phatzky]

@polopowers1 God did not create evil, but He does allow evil. If God had not allowed for the possibility of evil, both mankind and angels would be serving God out of obligation, not choice. He did not want “robots” that simply did what He wanted them to do because of their “programming.” God allowed for the possibility of evil so that we could genuinely have a free will and choose whether or not we wanted to serve Him. Being finite beings we are, we can never understand an infinite God

[roadruncb]

Watch Chuck Missler" the origin of evil" for some answers.Its on youtube.

[ndlynn08]

Awesome response. :)

[OlderSnake]

And God simply didn't know we were going to create evil? And why did God even set the circumstances for evil?

[hofisito]

cuz the circumstances for evil are also the circumstances necessary for free will and love.

Yes God could make us all robots and make us do what is right and never allow evil to enter into the world... but how well can a robot love???

[OlderSnake]

Is God not a purely good being? Does he not have infinite love and mercy for human beings? Does he not have free will to lead us the right way?

Should that not prove the presence of love and free will are with a being of no evil?

[hofisito]

"you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink"

could you restate that though? I'm not "entirely" sure I got your response

[OlderSnake]

You claim evil is a necessity for free will and love, however God, the being supposedly with the most love of any entity in existence, does in all ways completely avoid all evil.

[hofisito]

ah... now I see your point.

Well I see evil as a "good vacuum," and not an entity within itself. Evil is a distortion or absence of good, not the presence of something itself.

So... evil arises when there are non-absolutely good or perfect beings (or... non-Gods) that also have free wil.

God does have free will, but He is all good, so His free will can't lead to evil.

But... non-God beings are always capable of doing evil (like satan, the fallen angel).

[hofisito]

so... another way of saying the same things is: "free will is a gateway for evil ONLY if you're a non-God."

If everyone had all of God's characteristics... well then hey, they wouldn't do evil then would they? But... God is the only entity that CAN be God based on His own characteristics and qualities

[hofisito]

We have free will, and we are responsible for our sinful and evil actions. We deserve punishment for these actions...

Luckily!!! God is also very merciful and made a way for your sins to be forgiven! woot!!!

yea... God definately is good!

[humanistheart]

@OlderSnake If you're reffering to the abrahamic god, that answer to all your q's is no. No he is not depicted as a loving or merciful being. He commits numerous mass genocides, infanticides, slavery, rape, child abuse, spousal abuse, homophobia, and condemns people you think he created to suffer for all eternity if they ever do anything he doesn't like, like not committing a genocide for example would be a sin when this god tells one to do it. Nothing 'good' there.

[humanistheart]

@OlderSnake And as for free will, no neither humans nor the christian god would have free will if their dogma that he's all knowing were true.

[hofisito]

ok, so lemme ask you a question, how many sides would a square have to have in order to be a triangle?

Being that a triangle has three sides, you might feel inclined to say 3. But the second question is, is a square with 3 sides really a square? of course not! it's against its own definition.

If God did something evil, it's not that I would consider what He did to be good, I would fail to consider Him to be God.

That's why Christians believe God to be unchanging, He WILL only do good.

[fireflygirl246]

you did not answer the question, what could god do to make you consider him evil. For example if god personally or he order his follower to rape a innocent 12 year old girl until he/they are board with her and then stone her for being impure and not a vergin anymore. IF... IF god did that would you consider him an evil god? if not what would god have to do to make him evil in your eyes or is it always good as long as you are obeying god, becuase god=good?

[hofisito]

oh woops, the reply I posted didn't turn up as a reply. look above for reply #1

But yea, to answer you; yes! I would consider whoever did that to be evil! and if the thing I thought was God did that thing, well then... that thing would no longer be God! (cuz God wouldn't do that) and I'd be looking for another thing that REALLY is God that doesn't do evil things like that.

[fireflygirl246]

my post seems to be have been removed but not by me, might be buggy youtube.

I'm guess I was asking if god did or commanded an act we today would consider evil if it then would become good. If your answer is that god would never commit an evil act and if he did he would no long be god. Would you not consider it an evil act to order your followers to kill all the men and woman of a village, but keep the virgin girls as sex slaves (you know rape them) because he did give that order in the bible

[hofisito]

well God ordered the destruction of cities that again... were evil and very disobedient and deserving of punishment. There's several times this sort of thing happened, which one in particular are you talking about?

[fireflygirl246]

and the crime his is punishing if I remember correctly was that this town did not believe in him. would you consider this a fair punishment?

How about sending bears to kill a group of children for simply being rude and making fun of someone?

The bible is filled with acts god commits or commands that if any human acted in this way they would be brought up on charges of crimes against humanity. so are these acts not evil or is the god of the bible not so god like after all?

[hofisito]

yea, i guess it depends on what you think is fair/good ultimately. but generally disbelief means a change in behavior to something evil./bad/disobedient.

From what I understand, the prophet sent the bears, God didn't speecifically order it. But... honor and respect is something not taken very lightly in the old testament... There are some cultures and feel the same way about respecting your elders.

[fireflygirl246]

could be but form my understanding is the prophet prayed to god, and god sent the bears for the prophet.

yes honor and respect is something to take seriously, but would you kill a child for being a rude smart ass? do you think this is moral or right?

[hofisito]

btw... you talking about Zec 14:2???

[fireflygirl246]

no but that's another good one, but it this one seem to me like prophecy then an order. "For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle" that seems like the command. "and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished" this seems more like the result not the command. All though if he knew the woman would be raped and did nothing to prevent it, that's seems a little immoral to me, but I'm willing to give him a pass on this one.

[hofisito]

I just ask cuz people tend to mis-read that one in particular. If you actually pay attention, it's Jerusalem that's getting raped, and the rest of the chapter is God promising justice to the Israelites

[fireflygirl246]

I think that your a good person that is just defending your faith. I think i misjudged you to be pushing your religion, but after rewatching your video i changed my mind. To be honest if god exists i think he would be a good loving god not an evil god, I just think SOME of the stories in the bible were added/rewriten for political reasons. "Thou should not allow a witch to live" being one.

[hofisito]

why thank you! I have some rebuttals to what you're saying but I'll save it for if you're really curious and ask :)

sadly... I really don't blame you for making that assumption! Christians are, in general, not tolerant of other views. (trying and hoping to change that...)

But yea, there's a huge mockery of Christianity on Youtube, and I'm just trying to clear things up so that people don't lose their faith :)

[fireflygirl246]

to be honest I think more Christians are tolerant of other views then not. just they tend to be the quite one's. It's a good life lesson not to judge the a group of people based off the loudest and most vocal of them.

if you want to take the time I would be interested in hearing your rebuttals, but being a med student don't waste to much time with me.

I think the mockery comes form lumping all Christians in with creationists, which is nether fair or right.

[hofisito]

well I used to be a hard lined creationist but... I heard a really good evolutionary argument that's pretty darn hard to refute, so now I'm completely confused :)

BUT... I also wanna make a series on evolution cuz well... it DEFINATELY needs some serious tweaking...

[humanistheart]

@hofisito "(cuz God wouldn't do that) " Than one can only wonder at your definition of 'god', which I note is purely in the singular.

[akinderreality]

Woah, where did you get that bonsai?

[hofisito]

girlfriend :) I love it!