Epic Mickey- A history of Disney (part 1)

[joe88john]

I think I know the problem, though it is just an hypothesis by a Disney Fan since child-hood:

Back in the 90s w/ movies like The Little Mermaid Beauty & the Beast The Lion King etc Disney not only entertained kids but also adults and teens alike. Nowadays there is a crazy notion that cartoons are only meant for children hence Mickey has been down played & everything else has gone to shit. However The Princess & the Frog & that Pooh Bear movie were really good & older ppl went 2 see them.

[Crashortsofevil]

@joe88john I like this guy. You sir, you can sit on the like bench. Seriously though, it's very true that Hollywood has it's own notions about cartoons these days, which has scuppered it for the rest of us and Disney in general.

[joe88john]

@Crashortsofevil

Um, which guy do u like? The guy on the video? Cuz I like him too, I think he is well informed and knows his stuff (I assumed u were him). I also did LIKE this video so I guess I am...sitting...on the...like.....bench? But ya.

[Crashortsofevil]

@joe88john Olo, I am the guy in the vid, I was just talking about you and I of course as usual made everything confusing :V

[joe88john]

@Crashortsofevil

Hey no worries man, u give a very accurate and very well portrayal of Disney. I especially like you calling Walt "A product of his time", cuz we all think of him as a God and forget that he is human as well, and therefore isn't perfect (altho prolly the closest thing to it in my mind) Either way, good work, u deserve more views!

[ZManofAwesome1]

Pixar is really good

[kdm71291]

Assuredly, I AM a thinker

So far it feels like your premise is based on 'over-thinking it' and that you've lost your ability to simply enjoy. I liked both The Princess And The Frog and Tangled; The former was well done in the tradition of Disney and the latter, though CG, had very 'Disney' facial expressions, movement and timing. To me Disney is about joy and one of the things I've learned in life over the past couple of years is how to stop thinking so much and simply enjoy things as they are.

[Crashortsofevil]

@kdm71291 I think you've missed the point entirely. In the 1960's-80's we did stop thinking. We stopped saying 'why does Disney work?'. When we stopped doing that, Disney nearly shut down. It's not about over thinking. It's about finding answers as to why this scenario had to happen at all. Also, this video was made a while back. My opinion on Tangled on a second viewing has softened. Believe me, I enjoy easily, but if I can help explain and bring more enjoyment, so much the better.

[kdm71291]

@Crashortsofevil: Hmmm. I'm not convinced I DID miss the point. After 'thinking' about it ,(haha) ;-), what I DID miss was where we 'stopped thinking' and where 'Disney nearly shut down' and why we would even need to ask the question:"Why does Disney work". (I simply don't recall those events or their corresponding needs) It 'works' because like Lucas, Roddenberry and Spielberg, Disney possesses a child-like ability to imagine and speaks to our innocent 'inner child'. That's all you need know.

[Crashortsofevil]

@kdm71291 Well then, if you've watched the documentary you'd know that Walt dealt with blacklisting, that the company was being sourced purely for money and was running out of ideas, that executives nearly tore the company apart- so the films you love so dearly would never have been made. People want to know how to not make those mistakes. Your innocent inner child can only continue to exist if we know how to make it happen and keep it alive. Some of us want to be creators too.

[kdm71291]

@Crashortsofevil (I wish Youtube would let us use 2,000 characters) Just FYI Disney didn't abandon Oswald, he was lawfully retained by his distributor. This may change your outlook. Sorry if it seems like I'm trying to curtail your activities, I don't mean to. I respect your right to research and express whatever is important to you. Please remember, however, that ALL people and institutions have their ups and downs. (I strongly disliked Pete's Dragon) Keep it up. May you enjoy Disney as I do.

[Crashortsofevil]

@kdm71291 It was lawfully detained but through trickery. Walt wasn't aware of the situation, he was not well informed. If you have watched my other videos, you would know that I understand that he was not abandoned- but in epic mickey, for dramatic purposes, that is what Oswald believes. In fact the very point of this documentary is to show those ups and downs. It is why I bring up the blacklistings and Katzenberg.

[kdm71291]

@Crashortsofevil That's the way the laws were in that period of time; Distributors had the rights to characters above the creators. And yes, I'm sure growing up in small town America that Walt was ignorant of this. I'm glad to hear that you've softened a bit in some respects and I appreciate your insight. I DID encourage you yo "keep it up" because you DO bring up an aspect that most people don't think about. I've got a premium A/P to D-land in my wallet and I can't wait to go back. Nice talk.

[woterx]

whats that part from at 10;52?

[pauletteking]

no one knows how mickey got started. some say walt had a pet mouse and that inspired mickey. or hugh harman and rudolph ising drew mice sketches in 1925 and that made him. or mickey's an altered oswald. or walt looked back to a short in the alice comedies and saw mice. some even say they're his ancestors or pre mickeys. when that's a damn lie mickey was not in their minds when they made anything before oswald nor when walt had the rights to him. so no one knows how he started. not really.

[Crashortsofevil]

@pauletteking I often have youtubers angrily declaring information I clearly must be oblivious to...forgetting that they wouldn't be checking on the video if they knew it all themselves in the first place. We're in the same boat. It's true, the exact conception of Mickey Mouse can't be pinpointed, but it's pretty much been sussed out that Ub Iwerks developed it with Walt. There's a lovely documentary by his daughter, Leslie Iwerks, that I highly reccomend, where she tries to uncover the truth.

[MaybeBored]

I liked Tangled actually, the name wasn't a turn off for me. I agree it wasn't the old movies but it was still simple and enjoyable.

[Crashortsofevil]

@MaybeBored The problem with Tangled was that it was trying to be complex- but actually ended up being very simple as a result of trying too hard. It's not necessarily a good thing to forcibly push for a message- something the best movies don't do.

[Ahturos]

I thought that P&TF was not the right feeling I like in a Disney film like Aladdin, I like the way animation looks like when handdrawn but like any CGI made movie as long it´s a good movie, Looks don´t make the fun. They are not just advanced enough with computers to make it as good like handdrawn, I mean they should already be able to do 99% of the work there, it´s just to find a harmony betwen animation and computers. Like in Aladdin, Tarzan, Atlantis, Basil and even The Black Culdron.

[Twilight14Vampire]

Thank god I'm not alone ont he whole "CGI" thing. I like it and all but for very single movie it's just..blah. Leave the CGI to Pixar and every other Disney movie be hand drawn :)

[tamenga88]

This shouldn't have been a game.

It has all the story ingredients for a Movie.

[goofygrrl]

@tamenga88 If it had been a movie the choice/consequence element would have been lost.

[goofygrrl]

Oh, and also, I love the things that you're saying in this video, except for Tangled. Turns out the marketing was very off-base. Behind all the Shrek-like commercials they made for it lurked a fantastic fairy-tale movie.

[Crashortsofevil]

@goofygrrl I've now seen tangled and...well, you'll have to wait for my review. The answers I give may surprise you.

[freshPrincess626]

@goofygrrl

they did that on purpose actually, including changing the title from Rapunzel to Tangled. after The Princess and the Frog didn't do AS WELL as they had hoped, they tried to de-emphasize the princessness in the marketing, so as to not disinterest little boys. and it probably helped, since Tangled was a pretty big hit. hey, whatever it takes to get butts in the seats...

[Crashortsofevil]

@tamenga88 And that's exactly what I want to try and do.

[Rickeyuiop]

@Crashortsofevil If its gonna be a movie, it should be hand drawn

[Extra365]

you know what id love to see disney do: make an adult story. not like i dont want them to do kids stuff, thats the magic to them, buit i just wonder what theyd acoplish if they made a genuinely violent or sad story.

[Crashortsofevil]

@Extra365 Kids stuff isn't part of the magic. Making it 'adult' wouldn't be part of the magic either. The reason the Batman Animated series works, for example, is not because it's more violent or adult, but because it tells great stories with great characters. Disney have done this is thousands of ways over the years, not limited to animated movies either.

[Extra365]

@Crashortsofevil

sorry, i worded that wrong. what i meant was that most of their films have that magica feel to it, and the fact that theyre children´s films adds a bit of a limit that can be avoided in very imaginative ways. i agree with you, its just that i wonder what would disney do if it had the oportunity to do a very adult themed movie. BTAS was great, but since it was on a kids network, it still had to hold back. imagine animation without any drawbacks.

[Crashortsofevil]

@Extra365 I don't think making them a 'kids' film limits them at all. Animation doesn't have any drawbacks at the moment- BTAS certainly didn't, the anime One Piece certainly doesn't. There's no such thing as an adult theme, only maturity in storytelling. If you're clever you can pass that off to any age, and if you're even better you can do it to them all at once. Look at Roger Rabbit, for instance.

[Extra365]

@Crashortsofevil the animation itself doesnt have any real problems, but you cant deny that a movie targeted towards children is less likely to have an onscreen death than a mature one (take a recent cartoon, symbionic titan, for instance. second episode, you see a soldier get choked. shows how the younger generation has been desensitized from violence)

what im getting t is the limit of content. of course there can be mature themes in kids media (animniacs) but not as much as in adult media

[Crashortsofevil]

@Extra365 You kidding? Bambis mom, Raymond, old yeller, Megera, several cartoons in Roger Rabbit via Dip, the funeral in Atlantis, Mufasa and many more are openly expressed to have died to the audience, on and offscreen. I don't think you need any more death and loss than you already have, especially because the symbolism is actually much more emotional than seeing the violence occur. A few pools of blood don't add to the story. Besides, noone should be forced to watch self indulgent violence

[Extra365]

@Crashortsofevil i see your point. sorry that im limited to comenting, most of what im saying is coming off as naive, but my main point is that im simply curious as to how disney would manage a blatantly adult movie. i mean most animation is considered strictly child friendly in mainstream media. with the craze for cgi, id wonder how something like AD Zombie would turn out. what would it be like if disney made an adult movie back then, like a war movie (nazi donald aside lol)

[Crashortsofevil]

@Extra365 Actually, I think I have good news for you- I heard Disney made a new division devoted to more risky/adult movies. Heck, Disney making an equivalent to a commando or a haunted mansion movie that actually doesn't have to be a family film? I'd be crazy to not understand why that would be awesome. Dunno if they'd do animated stuff, but I think branching out is the way to get new viewers without upsetting any fans.

[Extra365]

@Crashortsofevil oh man that sounds like a dream come true.

if they DO go into animation, i cant really iagine what theyd come up with. newgrounds shows people like creepy yet funny stuff, like gretel and hansel (if you hvent played it, go now)

then spawn fans show people want things with understandably good stories, but more enfasis on the badass artstyle.

mcgee fans show they want uber creepy stuff.

just cant imagine anything beyond the runaway brain level of mature for disney. any ideas?

[disneynut06]

In regards to "Tangled, I'm going to have to disagree. Don't judge films by their trailers--wait until it comes into the theaters before forming an opinion on it. And even then, it's not wise to pass judgement.

Also, not all CGI films are garbage. The bulk of Pixar's output, for example, are pure gems that help carry on the Disney tradition with great animation, appealing characters and engaging stories.

And not all of Disney's "newer" output is bad either!

[Crashortsofevil]

@disneynut06 Wait, that wasn't my point mate. I've known about tangled for about 4 years now- I knew about it when it was called Rapunzel. Glen Keane said that it was part of disneys rebirth- it was always going to be CGI but it wasn't going to make any bones about being a fairy tale. And suddenly...name change, focus change, and disapproval from the workers at Disney. CGI is fine, I love the Pixar movies- but it's easier to do than hand drawn animation. The love tends to be lost.

[Crashortsofevil]

@disneynut06 In addition, I will be getting to the later stuff. See CGI isn't seen as Disneys thing, and to you or me that doesn't seem off, but to the general public it's a major turn off. Again, the focus of the documentary is Disney and the general public as well as the loyal fans, the complete middle ground. And if I'm going to be truly neutral in my journey to make a judgement at the end, I have to look at every plus point of CGI alongside every drawback.

[NEWdumbich123455432]

Where can I find that interview with Walt?

[365ral]

BTW, from what Epic Mickey video did you get that footage with Horace Horsecollar meeting Mickey and Gus around 2:14?

[Crashortsofevil]

@365ral there's an extended interview with Warren spector where I managed to download 40 minutes worth of Warren talking about mean street and some aspects of the game. Search around on youtube and it should come up.

[365ral]

PotF was considered a flop because it lost to the "Squeakquel," but any sane person can see which was the better movie. Sadly, in this economy, parents will only take their kids to movie the kids themselves think are "cool," even if it's total crap. That's how it worked for Disney Channel.

[Crashortsofevil]

@365ral Thanks for the info, I wish I'd known sooner. I really hope Epic Mickey will raise awareness by its concept alone of artistic integrity over commercialisation, fingers crossed that I'm actually helping in spreading the message.

[365ral]

@Crashortsofevil I pray for that, too. So far, EM doesn't seem very popular among mainstream audiences, but hopefully it will live up to its name. And sadly, I think Tangled will be a hit, but for the wrong reason; because boys and girls think it's "cool." But from what I've gathered, Toy Story 3 has a good chance being the 1st animated film in history to WIN Best Picture! It's already made more than $1 billion!

[DrBZR1]

This is a great documentary here! I never realised that Disney had so much significance. Keep it up!

[CrashFan92]

Very very very well done mate, I applaude you for this. This made me realize how important this game is. Keep it up, looking really forward to the rest of this.