@jimbrown257 Hehe, well, they did talk a lot about intelligent design, but that was only until another sensible being (judge Jones) ruled against them in the Kitzmiller vs. Dover trial (there's a great documentary, free on PBS Nova about that, if you haven't seen it). Now they've evolved again, and use catchphrases as "teach the controversy", "teach the strengths and weaknesses of evolution" and "academic freedom".
That was the best NOVA ever, and that's saying a lot. The decsion from that case was great. I just hate that weasel Dembski and it was so nice to see him made a fool of. Did you read that part of the transcript with the "Homer Simpson defense"? "Don't say you were at a bar. Don't say you were at a bar. I was at a bar." That Bucknell clown testified: "I was thinking 'don't say creation, don't say creation...creation'" It's on Panda's Thumb.
Btw, I have seen the term "creative evolution" a few times in the last few months, twice on Dembski's blog. I've never seen it before; it could be their newest attempt to sneak in and destroy real science from the inside. They're still hard at work; everytime there is a news story about a new development in evolution on Yahoo's main page, the fundies are out in full force with their 2nd l.o.t.s and their "It's just a theory, durrrr!!"
@jimbrown257 That's interesting. I haven't seen that term myself. I just finished reading "Creationism's Trojan Horse" about ID, written by Barbara Forrest (who testified in Dover) and some other guy. Very good stuff, but it's a couple of years so I haven't heard all the latest spin-lingo from the ID'ers. "Creative evolution" sounds pretty silly, actually, and I don't think it will fly. Thanks for the info. :)
And yeah, the fundies will never learn. Poor things.
@Gnug215 I was just on Yahoo reading about those new hominid fossils and amongst the inevitable creationist nonsense replies in the comment section, there was a gentleman demanding to be shown a monkey with fins. Oh, and Hitler! They always have to mention Hitler. You see, Darwin was the sole cause of the Holocaust and that somehow invalidates the theory of evolution. It makes perfect sense!!
@jimbrown257 Lol, yes, first the scientific misrepresentations, then the appeal to emotions. It's a common pattern. Scientific ignorance is one thing, but the emotional appeals is probably the larger problem, indicating a major malfunction in the ability to reason in the minds of these people. It also implies an undue reliance on authoritative figures which I don't quite understand. Childhood issues maybe? Fundamental differences in brain physiology?
Cont:As for "creative evolution", that is just one of the many gems I regularlly see on Uncommon Descent. Every once in a while, when I need a good laugh, I go there to see some choice scientifically illiterate paranoid fundie ravings. My favorite place, however, is Rapture Ready. If you ever start to feel safe in the world, go there to see how many seriously insane people there are waiting for the destruction of the world like a third grade kid the night before christmas.
@jimbrown257 Lol, you're quite the masochist, from the sounds of it. ;)
I've seen quite a bit of RR quotes on FSTDT, and it reeally scared me. I'm seriously wondering if some of them aren't actually planning to blow up something big in Jerusalem or the like. With all the voices they're hearing, one of them is bound to "hear" something along those lines and actually go through with it.
@Gnug215 Have you seen that review in TYT for the movie "Waiting for Armagedon"? These fundies claim they are as sure the Rapture will happen in the next few years as they are sure the sun will rise in the East; however, I wonder how much they truly believe it. They still do stuff like save for retirement. I've even asked them about it on RR and, while they are so excited for it, they don't seem do do much different as you would expect one to with that mindset.
@jimbrown257 I haven't, no. Sounds like a scary movie, really. I wonder if I want to see it. ;)
But yes, I have noticed that many of these people don't seem to live or act as if we're truly living in the last days. That, of course, indicates a deep-seated, fundamental doubt in them, which is interesting.
Incidentally, this is why I made my video "The 2012 Bet". I'm being slightly facetious in the video, but still making a serious point.
Also, have you seen the quote on FSTDT where the lady has taught her 6 and 8 year olds about Noah's Ark, Creationism (all sorts of bible stuff) and that Obama is the Antichrist and Jesus hates socialism. Also, when Jesus returns they are going to ride white horses and god is going to give them a mansion. Then she ends it with "We haven't discussed religion yet."
@jimbrown257 Lol, no, I haven't seen that particular quote. FSTDT is actually the reason I ended up on YouTube in the first place, but for some reason I have since mostly stopped reading FSTDT. I think I tend to get caught up in what these people say, wanting to refute it all, so it got time consuming.
But yeah, that sounds like a fairly typical quote, except for the white horses and mansion. Haven't heard that one before. :)
While it was hilarious by itself, I clicked on it to go to the actual post on RR and below it was the bible quote of the day where Jesus was preaching what was basically the definition of socialism. My favorite was the lady who once again thought the Rapture had happened but was once again disappointed.
@jimbrown257 I never got why these people seem to think Jesus was a conservative/capitalist/Republican - it is pretty clear that it wasn't, as you say.
I think I remember the lady who was disappointed about the lack of Rapture.
I wonder how many people are living like that. I mean, it must be a somewhat substantial segment of the US population that is sort of... not contributing much to the advancement of the country, because they're just waiting for the end.
"not contributing much to the advancement of the country"
...That's pretty standard for superstious beliefs.
And the Jesus that is coming back is much different than his earlier more liberal counter-part. All he's been doing for the last 2000 years is watching Fox News.
That's actually the often cited defenition of stupidity: doing the same thing over and over, expecting different results.
But yeah, some are good for a laugh. I'm not so sure about the ones that manage to get it all the way to court, though. That's a bit less laughable, I think.
True. But, for example, Dover v Kitzmiller is rather amusing. A conservative judge still found that creationism (in the slightly veiled form of "intelligent design") is not science, but religion and they were pretty much laughed out of court.
Hehe, that's true, but I think the fact that so many people take it seriously enough for it to actually end up in court in the first place is pretty scary.
It means someone is constantly trying to undermine the education system with this crap.
I'm just glad the judges are smart enough, so far...
I agree! I'm just glad I'm an Australian and the whole creationism/"intelligent design" nonsense is pretty much a non-event here. Ken Hamm is basically the only well known Australian creationist and he moved to the U.S. to build his creation "museum" because he knew he'd just get laughed at here...
At one point, when the conservative parties were in power here there was talk, by the then federal education minister to introduce "intelligent design" to the education system. There was such an outcry (by scientists and educators) that it was shelved immediately.
However, this does show two things: (1) that you're correct, things from the U.S. to have the tendency to spread; and (2) that there are enough (I hope) intelligent people here to stop this particular rot from arriving...
Well, sitting in EU making vids about this, since it's all going on in the US might seem pointless to some, but this is primarily a preemptive attempt on my part, but also an attempt to influence people in the US.
Nah, it would only seem pointless to those who have been brainwashed into believing the creationist nonsense. Preemptive action is what is necessary for this, as it needs to be stopped!
Haha, sorry about that. I feel people should have something nice to look at while I sit there rambling, but I can see how it would be a distraction. :)
Indeed it is a distraction. Images should be either fixed or match the audio. If they don't match you force people to follow one or the other or to bounce back and forth and get not much of either.
I deliberately spent less time on this video in terms of making the images match the audio, because that's what has previously discouraged my video output, due to the time that it takes.
I tried to compensate in this vid by leaving (some of the) images on for a longer period of time.
Unfortunately it is a problem. Some images match what you are saying and others are total distraction (fun as they may be!) - at 2:20 though presumably you put a picture of the actual judge. So I can't just ignore the visuals because they partially match. So much of the time I'm distracted by irrelevant things or trying to figure out how this cat in a box relates to what you are saying. The first time I gave up. This time I pushed through ...
But yes, fair point. I was more sloppy than usual in this one, because I felt the video was rather long, and it can be quite a painstaking process to find fitting pictures for everything I say.
In fact, that's probably the main thing that's kept me from making more vids.
I've been thinking about keeping my vids shorter in the future, and I've also been contemplating getting a video camera. Then you guys can get distracted by my ugly mug instead!! Hah!
It is incredibly encouraging, actually. These judges presumably don't even have any scientific training at all, and yet it seems fairly easy for them to just read up on the basics and then dismiss the nonsense the creationists are spewing.
It's just that the creationists have been trying to spin it for so long now, sugar-coating it, putting make-up on their pig, and trying to use fancy pseudo-scientific terms, many people have fallen for that - or at the very least it has made sure that many people are held in their false beliefs because their pastor or Kent Hovind has duped them with fancy words.
I just love the fact that a judge can so eloquently and factually cut through all that bull, like in this case. :)
It is easy enough to talk a laymen into this kind of stuff.I mean most of them can't even replace a fanbelt in their car..let stand write or read English.
Understanding science would be to much asked. Hence the snakes sell their hide well indeed.
It's a good thing they got one of the few sensible people in Arkansas to make that ruling.
However, creation science has come a long way since then. For example...well....uh....now they say intelligent design!
jimbrown257 1 year ago
@jimbrown257 Hehe, well, they did talk a lot about intelligent design, but that was only until another sensible being (judge Jones) ruled against them in the Kitzmiller vs. Dover trial (there's a great documentary, free on PBS Nova about that, if you haven't seen it). Now they've evolved again, and use catchphrases as "teach the controversy", "teach the strengths and weaknesses of evolution" and "academic freedom".
Gnug215 1 year ago
@Gnug215
That was the best NOVA ever, and that's saying a lot. The decsion from that case was great. I just hate that weasel Dembski and it was so nice to see him made a fool of. Did you read that part of the transcript with the "Homer Simpson defense"? "Don't say you were at a bar. Don't say you were at a bar. I was at a bar." That Bucknell clown testified: "I was thinking 'don't say creation, don't say creation...creation'" It's on Panda's Thumb.
jimbrown257 1 year ago
@jimbrown257 Lol, no, I think I missed that. :)
But man, did they screw up. So far we've been quite lucky that the opposition has been so incompetent. But they're learning. :(
Gnug215 1 year ago
@Gnug215
Btw, I have seen the term "creative evolution" a few times in the last few months, twice on Dembski's blog. I've never seen it before; it could be their newest attempt to sneak in and destroy real science from the inside. They're still hard at work; everytime there is a news story about a new development in evolution on Yahoo's main page, the fundies are out in full force with their 2nd l.o.t.s and their "It's just a theory, durrrr!!"
jimbrown257 1 year ago
@jimbrown257 That's interesting. I haven't seen that term myself. I just finished reading "Creationism's Trojan Horse" about ID, written by Barbara Forrest (who testified in Dover) and some other guy. Very good stuff, but it's a couple of years so I haven't heard all the latest spin-lingo from the ID'ers. "Creative evolution" sounds pretty silly, actually, and I don't think it will fly. Thanks for the info. :)
And yeah, the fundies will never learn. Poor things.
Gnug215 1 year ago
@Gnug215 I was just on Yahoo reading about those new hominid fossils and amongst the inevitable creationist nonsense replies in the comment section, there was a gentleman demanding to be shown a monkey with fins. Oh, and Hitler! They always have to mention Hitler. You see, Darwin was the sole cause of the Holocaust and that somehow invalidates the theory of evolution. It makes perfect sense!!
jimbrown257 1 year ago
@jimbrown257 Lol, yes, first the scientific misrepresentations, then the appeal to emotions. It's a common pattern. Scientific ignorance is one thing, but the emotional appeals is probably the larger problem, indicating a major malfunction in the ability to reason in the minds of these people. It also implies an undue reliance on authoritative figures which I don't quite understand. Childhood issues maybe? Fundamental differences in brain physiology?
Gnug215 1 year ago
@Gnug215
Cont:As for "creative evolution", that is just one of the many gems I regularlly see on Uncommon Descent. Every once in a while, when I need a good laugh, I go there to see some choice scientifically illiterate paranoid fundie ravings. My favorite place, however, is Rapture Ready. If you ever start to feel safe in the world, go there to see how many seriously insane people there are waiting for the destruction of the world like a third grade kid the night before christmas.
jimbrown257 1 year ago
@jimbrown257 Lol, you're quite the masochist, from the sounds of it. ;)
I've seen quite a bit of RR quotes on FSTDT, and it reeally scared me. I'm seriously wondering if some of them aren't actually planning to blow up something big in Jerusalem or the like. With all the voices they're hearing, one of them is bound to "hear" something along those lines and actually go through with it.
Gnug215 1 year ago
@Gnug215 Have you seen that review in TYT for the movie "Waiting for Armagedon"? These fundies claim they are as sure the Rapture will happen in the next few years as they are sure the sun will rise in the East; however, I wonder how much they truly believe it. They still do stuff like save for retirement. I've even asked them about it on RR and, while they are so excited for it, they don't seem do do much different as you would expect one to with that mindset.
jimbrown257 1 year ago
@jimbrown257 I haven't, no. Sounds like a scary movie, really. I wonder if I want to see it. ;)
But yes, I have noticed that many of these people don't seem to live or act as if we're truly living in the last days. That, of course, indicates a deep-seated, fundamental doubt in them, which is interesting.
Incidentally, this is why I made my video "The 2012 Bet". I'm being slightly facetious in the video, but still making a serious point.
Gnug215 1 year ago
@Gnug215
Cont:
Also, have you seen the quote on FSTDT where the lady has taught her 6 and 8 year olds about Noah's Ark, Creationism (all sorts of bible stuff) and that Obama is the Antichrist and Jesus hates socialism. Also, when Jesus returns they are going to ride white horses and god is going to give them a mansion. Then she ends it with "We haven't discussed religion yet."
jimbrown257 1 year ago
@jimbrown257 Lol, no, I haven't seen that particular quote. FSTDT is actually the reason I ended up on YouTube in the first place, but for some reason I have since mostly stopped reading FSTDT. I think I tend to get caught up in what these people say, wanting to refute it all, so it got time consuming.
But yeah, that sounds like a fairly typical quote, except for the white horses and mansion. Haven't heard that one before. :)
Gnug215 1 year ago
@Gnug215
Cont:
While it was hilarious by itself, I clicked on it to go to the actual post on RR and below it was the bible quote of the day where Jesus was preaching what was basically the definition of socialism. My favorite was the lady who once again thought the Rapture had happened but was once again disappointed.
jimbrown257 1 year ago
@jimbrown257 I never got why these people seem to think Jesus was a conservative/capitalist/Republican - it is pretty clear that it wasn't, as you say.
I think I remember the lady who was disappointed about the lack of Rapture.
I wonder how many people are living like that. I mean, it must be a somewhat substantial segment of the US population that is sort of... not contributing much to the advancement of the country, because they're just waiting for the end.
Gnug215 1 year ago
@Gnug215
"not contributing much to the advancement of the country"
...That's pretty standard for superstious beliefs.
And the Jesus that is coming back is much different than his earlier more liberal counter-part. All he's been doing for the last 2000 years is watching Fox News.
jimbrown257 1 year ago
@jimbrown257 Heh, well in all fairness, there are theistic evolutionists, like Ken Miller, after all. :) So it's not like they're all bad.
And lol about Fox News Jesus!
Gnug215 1 year ago
Aw man, I stumbled upon this juicy court case the other day and planned to make a vid. Thanks for beating me to the punch. :P
megagrey 2 years ago
Lol, sorry about that.
You could still make a vid, though. I won't mind. ;)
Besides, the more people that know about this, the better. :)
Gnug215 2 years ago
Ah, I love that story Gnug!
dannypantsgm 2 years ago
What can I say? I enjoy telling cozy stories by the warm fire...
Of brave people fighting those wicked Creationists.
Gnug215 2 years ago
This just proves creationists are insane; attempting the same nonsense and expecting a different outcome...
Mind you, they are good for a laugh!
erehwon80 2 years ago
That's actually the often cited defenition of stupidity: doing the same thing over and over, expecting different results.
But yeah, some are good for a laugh. I'm not so sure about the ones that manage to get it all the way to court, though. That's a bit less laughable, I think.
Gnug215 2 years ago
True. But, for example, Dover v Kitzmiller is rather amusing. A conservative judge still found that creationism (in the slightly veiled form of "intelligent design") is not science, but religion and they were pretty much laughed out of court.
erehwon80 2 years ago
Hehe, that's true, but I think the fact that so many people take it seriously enough for it to actually end up in court in the first place is pretty scary.
It means someone is constantly trying to undermine the education system with this crap.
I'm just glad the judges are smart enough, so far...
Gnug215 2 years ago
I agree! I'm just glad I'm an Australian and the whole creationism/"intelligent design" nonsense is pretty much a non-event here. Ken Hamm is basically the only well known Australian creationist and he moved to the U.S. to build his creation "museum" because he knew he'd just get laughed at here...
erehwon80 2 years ago
Hehe, yeah, we're not seeing much of it here in Europe either, but it still worries me when this stuff happens in the US.
What happens in the US has a tendency to spread, so...
Gnug215 2 years ago
At one point, when the conservative parties were in power here there was talk, by the then federal education minister to introduce "intelligent design" to the education system. There was such an outcry (by scientists and educators) that it was shelved immediately.
However, this does show two things: (1) that you're correct, things from the U.S. to have the tendency to spread; and (2) that there are enough (I hope) intelligent people here to stop this particular rot from arriving...
erehwon80 2 years ago
Go Australia!
Well, sitting in EU making vids about this, since it's all going on in the US might seem pointless to some, but this is primarily a preemptive attempt on my part, but also an attempt to influence people in the US.
Gnug215 2 years ago
Nah, it would only seem pointless to those who have been brainwashed into believing the creationist nonsense. Preemptive action is what is necessary for this, as it needs to be stopped!
erehwon80 2 years ago
I'm hoping to reach some of the fence-sitters, actually.
:)
Gnug215 2 years ago
Need to watch this again. Spent too much time laughing at the lolcats.
feralshrew 2 years ago 5
Haha, sorry about that. I feel people should have something nice to look at while I sit there rambling, but I can see how it would be a distraction. :)
Gnug215 2 years ago
Indeed it is a distraction. Images should be either fixed or match the audio. If they don't match you force people to follow one or the other or to bounce back and forth and get not much of either.
farvision 2 years ago
I deliberately spent less time on this video in terms of making the images match the audio, because that's what has previously discouraged my video output, due to the time that it takes.
I tried to compensate in this vid by leaving (some of the) images on for a longer period of time.
I hope it wasn't too bad.
Gnug215 2 years ago
Unfortunately it is a problem. Some images match what you are saying and others are total distraction (fun as they may be!) - at 2:20 though presumably you put a picture of the actual judge. So I can't just ignore the visuals because they partially match. So much of the time I'm distracted by irrelevant things or trying to figure out how this cat in a box relates to what you are saying. The first time I gave up. This time I pushed through ...
farvision 2 years ago
Hehe, those damn cats.
But yes, fair point. I was more sloppy than usual in this one, because I felt the video was rather long, and it can be quite a painstaking process to find fitting pictures for everything I say.
In fact, that's probably the main thing that's kept me from making more vids.
I've been thinking about keeping my vids shorter in the future, and I've also been contemplating getting a video camera. Then you guys can get distracted by my ugly mug instead!! Hah!
Gnug215 2 years ago
Since you are named Gnug
t'would be fitting to an ugly mug
But seriously - maybe other folks could give you tips on how to do it more efficiently.
farvision 2 years ago
Hehe, yep. :)
Well, I'll try to spend a bit more time on it in future vids.
Gnug215 2 years ago
Yupz there are actually smart judges. Ones that will strike down the stupidity that certain groups try to push.
masticina 2 years ago 2
It is incredibly encouraging, actually. These judges presumably don't even have any scientific training at all, and yet it seems fairly easy for them to just read up on the basics and then dismiss the nonsense the creationists are spewing.
Gnug215 2 years ago
Oh yes the problem creationists have is that their message is "god did it" and it is just so easy to spot.
masticina 2 years ago
It's just that the creationists have been trying to spin it for so long now, sugar-coating it, putting make-up on their pig, and trying to use fancy pseudo-scientific terms, many people have fallen for that - or at the very least it has made sure that many people are held in their false beliefs because their pastor or Kent Hovind has duped them with fancy words.
I just love the fact that a judge can so eloquently and factually cut through all that bull, like in this case. :)
Gnug215 2 years ago
It is easy enough to talk a laymen into this kind of stuff.I mean most of them can't even replace a fanbelt in their car..let stand write or read English.
Understanding science would be to much asked. Hence the snakes sell their hide well indeed.
masticina 2 years ago
good vid
NubianTribesman 2 years ago 2
Thanks. :)
Gnug215 2 years ago