The distressing life-review

[LSaro6965]

He does a beautiful job of getting the point across - LOVE.

[MegaMelcar]

I like the way the way he talks about it.

[MrAlexisbeauchemin]

dear friend...there is no need to warning someone about salvation. rene make clear that our true nature is love without condition( the light or part of light). I don't think that the message of jesus was to spread fear. jesus understood the oneness and wanted to help us to express our oneness to everyone and everything. fondamantalist religious is symply not knowing their true nature. I love you even if you spread fear.. take care

[kristian888able]

we all have to tell other people they will go to hell if the don't trust Lord Jesus.Hell is real.it is not about being a good neighbor.It's about warning and saving people.

[ReneJorgensenDotCom]

@kristian888able Wrong, it is all about love (God is love) and not narrow interpretation of a text. Promoting religious fundamentalism and spreading fear and intolerance in the name of Jesus is a sin. What we really need to "love each other as I have loved you" by spreading the message that God is inclusive.

[ReneJorgensenDotCom]

Merriam-Websters Dictionary: ‘Fundamentalism is the literal interpretation of religion and a Fundamentalist is someone who believes that the Bible is the actual word of God, to be taken literally word for word.’ As history has been blood stained in the name of God, fundamentalism is something achieved by force through having power or authority over somebody else through the arrogant claim to hold the 'only truth.' As pride fundamentalism is a deadly sin.

[MrAlexisbeauchemin]

@kristian888able I understand your meaning, but please spread unconditional love- love without conditon

[ultradumbass]

@kristian888able i doubt warning makes sense. god created people to have an open mind i don't think believing in jesus saves you and neither does disbelieving condemn you. i think if you share similar moralities it will be the same. there were people who came thousands of years before jesus, will that get them condemned? hell is not a place of torment this is mainly a medieval interpretation however heaven is obviously not the same as movies show with angels playing harps.

[bass109]

I had battles with demons in my life. I was possessed by demons and had 3 exocisms. It is documented in church but It was very bad experience. God exists also good exits vs evil exists and evil one exists. Heaven is real and exists and hell is real and exists. God bless for this great video about God. Jesus christ is alive everyday in heaven. I believe people must repent and believe in gospel of Jesus christ. God bless

[Tonithenightowl]

We know when something resonates within us. There is a sigh of relief in the soul. That's how I felt when I listened to this video. I have always thought the same, it was wonderful to hear it expressed so intelligently and lovingly. God is only goodness and love or He would be like us. :o)

[DesideratumArt]

God is in all living,it is how much weRembodied w higher truth-that is how much He will dwell in us.2know how2read d language ofNature is 2know God's ways&His process(besides the aspect ofSpirituality that stretches far beyond what we c.)However, ur experience was the lesson, if u fall out of tune w God.I felt this introversion of other ppls experiences all my life..this makes us to b more compassionate&understanding-th­is is the wisdom of the soul that dwells in God at all times-w/no separation

[DesideratumArt]

"hurt" meaning the "wrongs" of this world which have no basis to outlive truth, since all laws of nature are based on the truth alone...everything that does not comply with this truth will be shortly lived...

[DesideratumArt]

I hear u often mention how God is not angry; but there is something that becomes motivated by injustice/ignorance--it comes from hurt-which turns into an anger like state...this is the principle of cause-effect, while all life is born out of the principles of truth,&if human behaviors break this truth code/or don't comply w this principle=chaos happens4the righteous order of God2b re-created-this is what I would call "anger"4the right cause -bc there is a reaction 2how we choose2plant the seeds.

[ReneJorgensenDotCom]

@DesideratumArt This is your human interpretation of how you think God must feel. God is not human and does not feel human emotions. To suggest this is Idolatry - to make God human - which is a sin. The cause and effect is that if we commit actions that are not love, we separate ourselves from God because God is love. The effect of separation is pain but as pure non-human cause and effect God does not feel human emotions about this separation, and 'He' does not get angry about the consequences.

[DesideratumArt]

@ReneJorgensenDotCom 4 u2 say this is also a form of human interpretation. But the question remains the same, bc both of us are human...right? We are part of this Earth, we were born in here-so u can not deny our connection to nature&our souls connection 2 God, by this, you would deny God's creation (the glory)...So, my question to you is what is the reason of stress that our Planet is going through if it was not brought up by a burden of human condition? This is not form of God's aversion?

[ReneJorgensenDotCom]

@DesideratumArt I agree that duality causes movement but that still does not mean that God has simple human emotions like anger. I see God in another dimension - part of our essence - yes, but another dimension that does not have human emotions. Aversion and anger are not the same.

[MrAlexisbeauchemin]

@ReneJorgensenDotCom thanks rene!! 

[TheLastReformation]

that the coward is ignominiously thrust into the body of a woman; the murderer

imprisoned within the form of a savage beast; the vain and inconstant changed into birds, and

the slothful and ignorant into fishes."

By Timaeus Locrus, the Pythagorean :)

[TheLastReformation]

"For as we sometimes cure the body with

unwholesome remedies, when such as are most wholesome produce no effect, so we restrain

those minds with false relations, which will not be persuaded by the truth. There is a necessity,

therefore, of instilling the dread of those foreign torments: as that the soul changes its habitation;

[ReneJorgensenDotCom]

@TheLastReformation This could fit with NDE research and the hellish experiences, and certainly if we reject God as truth we have to come back and learn. The separation from God is very painful also in NDEs. However, the intention is not of instilling dread or causing torment (these are human intentions) - rather it is to teach us, make us aware and come back to God. The pain of our separation from God is a Consequence and not a punishment because God does not get angry - God is love.

[ReneJorgensenDotCom]

In NDE research about 15% have distressing experiences whereof 5% are 'truly hellish' with fire, demos, etc. While you quote insightful people and old books, only - I actually study real experiences of hell in near-death experiences. My position is based on my own and general conclusions from NDE research and then I try to make sense of scripture based on these real testimonies. The fact here is that God is not angry and hell is a consequence of our separation from God - not a punishment.

[TheLastReformation]

@ReneJorgensenDotCom Yes, God is love, but is also written: Hebrews 10:26,27 "If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God." NIV

Hebrews 12:28 "Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, let us be thankful, and so worship God acceptably with reverence and awe, for our “God is a consuming fire.”

[ReneJorgensenDotCom]

@TheLastReformation The Bible has been written by humans. Reading it literally is defined as "religious fundamentalism" - you should look this up. As making God human with emotions is Idolatry and a sin, most mainstream and moderate Christians do not read the Bible literally but symbolically. And if you read it symbolically as painful and scary but not literally a fire, and as a consequence rather than a punishment, then NDE research of Real experience of Hell actually support the description.

[ReneJorgensenDotCom]

...Are you not at least a little bit happy that there is scientific support of the existence of Hell? Only problem for you, I guess, is that this evidence does not support a literal interpretation of the Bible - and you want it all, right? Honestly, religious fundamentalism is not very kind to our neighbors in other faiths and while the nature of your belief forces you to force other to believe what you believe, the fact remains that most Christians are moderate and not fundamentalists.

[TheLastReformation]

@ReneJorgensenDotCom With all my respect, but I disagree. Here is my view about the subject:

The Holy Scripture, the Bible, is inspired by God and it is useful for our fulfillment: 2Timothy 3:15-17; 1Corynthians 4:6. Any teaching, prophecy or conduct must be verified with the Bible, but, be careful, it can be misinterpreted: 2Peter 3:15.16; Apocalypse 22:18, 19.

[ReneJorgensenDotCom]

@TheLastReformation I am glad you agree that the Bible should not be read literally, and also that you understand that it can be misinterpreted. But once you are open to this you are left with a problem: How should the Bible be understood? And who has got the right interpretation? Of course, you will say that its you or your faith who understands it correctly and has the right interpretation. But, here comes the problem; so do both other Christian churches and other religions. See the problem?

[TheLastReformation]

@ReneJorgensenDotCom The parables of the Bible should not be read literally, and also some symbolic representations from the prophecies, but what is not parables or prophecy we must take it literally. How should the Bible be understood? Nobody can understood right the Bible if is not born again. According to the Bible, the ungody people will not understand the Bible:

[TheLastReformation]

@ReneJorgensenDotCom Daniel 12:10 "Many will be purified, made spotless and refined, but the wicked will continue to be wicked. None of the wicked will understand, but those who are wise will understand."

This is the key, to be a real born again believer.

[ReneJorgensenDotCom]

@TheLastReformation This is a specific & very narrow interpretation of the Bible that most Christians: Catholics and European Protestants do not agree with. Also how exactly should we understand "born again'? There is no agreement on this. As a fundamentalist who claim the Bible can only be understood in one specific way - your way - you end up in conflict with all the other churches who understand it differently - and then you have all the other religions. Fundamentalism is fundamentalism.

[ReneJorgensenDotCom]

The main point here is that once you have opened up to the possibility that the Bible can be understood in different ways - you are forced to accept more than one interpretation. Because who decides exactly when we should understand it literally or symbolically? You understand the resurrection of the body literally, but main stream Christians understand it symbolically as the resurrection of the spiritual body. So, who decides? Fundamentalism is intolerance and a sin against your neighbor.

[TheLastReformation]

@ReneJorgensenDotCom Exist many people inside the different Churches who believe that is no life until the resurrection and hell is not eternal. See wiki/Annihilationism. Of course we are in minority, but is not a problem for me> Exodus 23:2 "Do not follow the crowd in doing wrong. When you give testimony in a lawsuit, do not pervert justice by siding with the crowd,

[ReneJorgensenDotCom]

@TheLastReformation Listen, the fact that you are part of a minority and Christians don't even agree among themselves should tell you something about the nature of your belief: 1) Its not the only interpretation of the bible and 2) if Christians can't agree; why should the many religions? You keep referring to lines in the Bible and literal interpretation - even though I have told you its name: Religious Fundamentalism. Your narrow belief is so common it has a name, and then there is the sin.

[ReneJorgensenDotCom]

You think you are a special patent in the only 'true' interpretation of the Bible - this is spiritual arrogance that brakes the Golden Rule (found in all religions) to love our neighbor. You cannot love your neighbor or even fellow Christian if you do not accept their belief and interpretation of God or the Bible. And then the blood stained history that your belief rests upon should be enough to wake you up and see the gross intolerance that you support.

[TheLastReformation]

@ReneJorgensenDotCom The salvation from sin and death is achieved through grace, through faith: Ephesians 2:8, 9; Tit 3:5, in Christ‘s sacrifice: Romans 3:21-36; Lucas 221:41-44. Not by deeds, because then we would annul both Christ’s sacrifice and God’s grace, which is given on the grounds of the belief in this sacrifice and thus the reason of our salvation would not be the belief in Christ’s sacrifice: Galatians 5:4-6; Galatians 2:21 and also the grace would no longer be grace Romans 10:6.

[ReneJorgensenDotCom]

@TheLastReformation OK, I am gonna have to cut down the religious fundamentalism here - after all this is 2011. The idea that it is through Jesus, his sacrifice or the mere belief in his name - just doesn't make sense. These arguments are pure marketing to control people and build a religion of blind followers. Jesus clearly tells us that it is through the Father "in" him that is "in you" - in us - as well that we find God within (John 14;10, 17). We all have or own connection to God within.

[ReneJorgensenDotCom]

Also Paul speaks about true and secret Wisdom "among the mature" Christians and here as well it is through "the Spirit of God" that we find God within (1 Cor. 2;6-15) He also points out that "no-one can say, 'Jesus is Lord,' except by the Holy Spirit," and that "the same God" works "in all men." (1 Cor. 12;3,6) As I said the majority of Christians are moderates and they do not buy this marketing and fundamentalism crap. God is in all of us including all of our neighbors in other faiths.

[TheAirportdream]

@ReneJorgensenDotCom Your problem, but I think that the believing in life after death is a great deception from Satan Genesis 3:4. I just warning you :)

[ReneJorgensenDotCom]

@TheAirportdream The problem here is the need to warn people about things you disagree with. Jesus clearly tells us how to recognize false prophets: "By their fruits you shall know them." While 80 - 90% of people who have near-death experiences report becoming more kind, compassionate, loving and forgiving - religious fundamentalists are usually angry and spread fear and intolerance for their neighbors. These are clearly fruits of Satan - to use your words.

[TheLastReformation]

@ReneJorgensenDotCom Good fruits? Many commit suicide because they believe that it is life after death.

[ReneJorgensenDotCom]

@TheLastReformation Also people who do not believe in the afterlife commit suicide. They do so not because they are happy and expecting heaven but because they are depressed and separated from God. However, on the topic of passing blame: millions have been killed in the name of Christ and religious fundamentalism from the Crusades to the war in Iraq, and from the Inquisition to the 'discovery' of America. So, don't you bad fruit me - when your belief rests on this dark and evil history!

[ReneJorgensenDotCom]

"One thing we know, which the white man may one day discover -- Our God is the same God. You may think now that you own Him as you wish to own our land: but you cannot. He is the God of man and his compassion is equal for the red man and the white." - Chief Seattle, 1854

[TheLastReformation]

@ReneJorgensenDotCom Hey, wait a minute. I am a Christian pacifist not a Christian warmogeer. I think is viceversa, all that so called Christians who was with immortal soul and eternal torment, they killed and tortured people.

[ReneJorgensenDotCom]

@TheLastReformation Maybe not; but history has more than enough evidence of the consequence of fundamentalism. Let me ask you: how can you truly love and accept your neighbor when you believe his or her faith is wrong and that they are going to hell? Even without acting on religious fundamentalism, its nature is a form of rejection that leads to intolerance towards your neighbor. Its a sin not to truly love your neighbor. 

[ReneJorgensenDotCom]

..You see as fundamentalists are blind to: religion is not about who has got the right interpretation - its about loving our neighbor. "Love each other as I have loved you" Jesus tells us, and when God is the same: "Our God is the same God" as Chief Seattle pointed out - not accepting the belief of your neighbor is a sin. When you attack or display intolerance against the belief of your neighbor, who believes in the same God (just interpreted different) you are committing a sin against God.

[TheLastReformation]

@ReneJorgensenDotCom Telling the truth is not a sin is an act of love. And is hard because many people don't like the truth. Anyway, time always tells the truth. Is a matter of time, and we will see, but for many people will be to late. I wish to you to find the way of truth.

[ReneJorgensenDotCom]

@TheLastReformation Not if you are wrong about what the truth is or that there is only one truth. Fundamentalism is not the truth - its your version of it. Thus, when you are promoting your version of the truth you are not promoting the truth but fundamentalism. And when you promote your truth as the only truth you are disrespecting other versions of the truth in other churches and religion. Disrespecting and spreading intolerance for other versions of the truth is not an act of love.

[ReneJorgensenDotCom]

I have found God and know many people who have also found God through different religions or spirituality. By accepting other people's path to God I am loving my neighbor. For you to say that I and all other people who do not believe like you have not found truth - is a deep disrespect. Its an insult not only to us but also to God. Its the same God and for you to arrogantly propose that it is not - is a sin - because you are intolerant against your neighbor. Fundamentalism makes you blind.

[TheLastReformation]

@ReneJorgensenDotCom I think I was polite when I opposing and warning you. This is enough, is my last post here. Thx for the opportunity.

[ReneJorgensenDotCom]

@TheLastReformation It is not polite to disrespect and not love your neighbor. And when you start warning and scaring people that they will go to hell if they don't believe want you want them to believe - this is when your belief becomes an act of fundamentalism that is a sin as an arrogant and unloving act against your neighbor. 

[ReneJorgensenDotCom]

@TheLastReformation Merriam-Websters Dictionary: ‘Fundamentalism is the literal interpretation of religion and a Fundamentalist is someone who believes that the Bible is the actual word of God, to be taken literally word for word.’ As history has been blood stained in the name of God, fundamentalism is something achieved by force through having power or authority over somebody else through the claim to hold the 'only truth.' As pride and arrogance fundamentalism is a deadly sin.

[TheLastReformation]

@ReneJorgensenDotCom So, I don't put my trusting in the so called visions, because in the Bible is written>

Psalm 6:5 No one remembers you when he is dead.

Who praises you from the Sheol?

This is the true truth.

[ReneJorgensenDotCom]

@TheLastReformation But you put your trust in Paul? Paul's experience of a "great light from Heaven" on the road to Damascus in Acts 22 is much like an NDE, and in his letter to the Galatians he clearly tells us that his wisdom or gospel was not given to him by man but "I received it by a revelation." Again, as I said near-death experiences confirm the teachings of the Bible as interpreted by the majority of moderate Christians - only fundamentalist fight against this scientific support.

[ReneJorgensenDotCom]

...but then fundamentalist fight against everyone and everything, which is why religious fundamentalism and the belief that God is exclusive is a sin as it does not love and include your neighbor.

[TheLastReformation]

@ReneJorgensenDotCom I believe that Paul was a real and born again Christian, and of course I believe all what we wrote. But his vision about death, is the same with the Solomon and David. Excepting Luke chapter 16:19-31 the Bible don't teach the conscious state of the death. But this story was not from our Lord Jesus, it's a second century interpolation. I believe that the Bible teach, that is no life to the deaths until resurrection.

[LightBehindGod]

@TheLastReformation I know what you believe. Jesus spent 40 days in the desert and Paul had an NDE so maybe an NDE is part of being born again - just not like you understand it. Anyway, the real issue here is that other Christians believe something else than you, and the scientific research of near-death experiences fits with mainstream Christian belief. That's something, not if you are a fundamentalist fighting the whole world with your narrow belief but to most Christians who are moderates.

[TheLastReformation]

Polybius, the ancient historian, says: "Since the multitude is ever fickle, full of lawless desires,

irrational passions and violence, there is no other way to keep them in order but by the fear

and terror of the invisible world; on which account our ancestors seem to me to have acted judiciously,

when they contrived to bring into the popular belief these notions of the gods, and of the infernal

regions." B. vi 56.

[ReneJorgensenDotCom]

@TheLastReformation I agree that human nature is imperfect and the command to Love our neighbor is very important. However, I do not think that fear is the best motivator - I prefer respect or reverence. The Bible says that "There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear because fear has to do with punishment" (1 John 4;18). Fear suppresses the spirit and our access to God. While it may have been useful in the past, I think many are now spiritually mature enough to move beyond.

[TheLastReformation]

@ReneJorgensenDotCom Very deep answer, I agree with you :)

But I do not agree with the immediate life after death. First is resurrection and after that the life.

I recommend the book The Fire That Consumes, by Edward William Fudge.

[ReneJorgensenDotCom]

@TheLastReformation Fair enough. I know all I need to know about resurrection. My studies of near-death experiences and real experience of death confirm the Bible's resurrection as a spiritual resurrection: "raised a spiritual body" - 1 Cor. 15;40. I think reading the Bible literally is a mistake.

[TheLastReformation]

@ReneJorgensenDotCom Not at all :) See the entire chapter :)

[ReneJorgensenDotCom]

@TheLastReformation You mean 15:50 "I declare to you, brothers, that flesh cannot inherit the kingdom of God"? Anyway, as I said immaterial resurrection fits physics and the evidence from near-death experiences so that is where I stand.

[TheLastReformation]

@ReneJorgensenDotCom I mean verse 53 - 55. Near -death experiences or clinical death is not a real death, because in the death is not conscious life: See Ecclesiastes chapter 9

[ReneJorgensenDotCom]

@TheLastReformation Here I understand the "perishable" as the body and the "imperishable" as the spirit or soul, so no change here. Near death experiences are dead enough as people have clear conscious experience during a time when the brain is completely inactive. Like Saul's Vision on the road to Damascus, I prefer this evidence and these direct experiences of God in support of the bible instead of simply relying on faith or the interpretation of others alone.

[TheLastReformation]

@ReneJorgensenDotCom So, king Solomon was wrong? And the pagan philosophers were right? :)

Timaeus Locrus, the Pythagorean, stating that the doctrine of rewards and punishments after

death is necessary to society: "is a necessity ... of instilling the dread of those foreign torments" Ecclesiastes 9:10 Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might, for in the grave (Hebrew "Sheol", Greek "Hades"), where you are going, there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom.

[ReneJorgensenDotCom]

@TheLastReformation A lot has changed since the OT and we have evolved spiritually since then. As I said fear suppresses the spirit and our access to God because "fear has to do with punishment" 1 John 4:18. The urge to punish comes from the human emotion of anger and I do not attribute human emotions to God - This is Idolatry and a sin. The choice is not between Solomon and pagans but between literal or symbolic interpretation of the Bible - or between religious fundamentalism and moderation.

[TheAirportdream]

@ReneJorgensenDotCom How could have Ecclesiastes 9:10 symbolic meaning? Be honest with yourself :) "Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might, for in the grave (Hebrew "Sheol", Greek "Hades"), where you are going, there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom." And Solomon is not alone, his father, king David, had the same teaching:

World English Bible

The dead don't praise Yah, neither any who go down into silence;

[LightBehindGod]

@TheAirportdream The topic was the Bible in general and the question whether Hell is a punishment or consequence. While some read the bible literally and thus conclude that Hell is a punishment because the bible says God is angry - other Christians may read this symbolically as these are human words and emotions describing God. As I said making God human is Idolatry. The Bible is written in human words with emotions but reading it symbolically and not literally will take out the Idolatry.

[ReneJorgensenDotCom]

@TheLastReformation ...the root of Hebrew "Sheol" is "Shaal" and means "to ask" or "inquire," and Hades means "Unseen" together with the root of "Hel" (in Norse mythology) which means "hidden."

In near-death experiences people have life-reviews where they are being inquired about their lives, shown the unseen or hidden moments where they hurt others without knowing it. And they are also asked about what they did for their neighbor.

[ReneJorgensenDotCom]

Also sin in Greek means to "miss the mark" or "go wrong" as in false consciousness or ignorance. Danish philosopher Kierkegaard points out that Adam did not have evil intentions when he committed the original sin - he was ignorant and innocent like a child about the full consequences of his actions. Only God was fully enlightened about the consequences. Punishing a child for its ignorance is cruel and accusing God of having human emotions like anger is Idolatry.

[Solablueangel]

This is an interesting topic. I'm interested highly in NDE's. I was thinking about hell once more based on this video.I realized that hell would not be 'imaginary' any more than hell on earth is imaginary. There is actually hell on earth, which proves to me that a similar hell beyond 'this life' is very possible. If there was no hell on earth it would not be perceived as possible or as likely in my mind. I don't like it that this is possible, but my dislike would not change things if they are so

[ReneJorgensenDotCom]

Yes, I think its the same kind of Hell as we create in our minds here on earth only more intense. In my study, more than 50% say that the sensation in the other dimension without the body is 1000 times stronger than here on earth. So, even a non-physical experience of Hell can be far more painful than any physical experience.

[pinabarryscott]

@Solablueangel

I like the way he described hell it goes along with my faith understanding about hell. In the Baha'i faith. Hell is not a place. Hell is being farthest from GOD. Heaven is being closest to GOD.

[Solablueangel]

PS If you were not a living being, but spiritual only, it might be hard to imagine 'life' on earth. Similarly, it might be hard to imagine that after death it is very possible that we obtain a 'new body'. Not like earth, but still related to being a 'created being', an EXPERIENCING soul. If we're mainly energy vibration (as a soul) then it's possible that certain vibrations could sink into earth, rather than rise to heaven in LOVE. Many who were in hell say they were lifted out of hell by Christ

[ReneJorgensenDotCom]

Some people in western/Christian cultures say it was Christ, while in other cultures like e.g. Thailand it is the Buddha. I think the key here is the devotion that people place in certain religious figures and how this devotion connects them to Love which takes them out of Hell.

[Solablueangel]

That is very, very interesting. Thank you for the clarification from your in depth knowledge base. When I think about it, it makes a lot of sense intuitively. That's amazing.

[Solablueangel]

PS I have a question for you. Do you think some people consciously 'hate' God because of pride? Pride is supposedly the chief of the seven deadly sins.

[ReneJorgensenDotCom]

Good point. Buddhist call Hell an aggression against giving up our attachment to sin/ignorance and selfish pride could be seen as aggression or hate against God. God gave us free will but if we use it and pride to stay separate from God, this pride would 'burn' painfully in the flame of God's love.

But I think pride is not hate but maybe fear. When we get discovered in lying there is a pain of being discovered and thus we are afraid of this pain, which is the survival mechanism of the ego.

[Solablueangel]

Good! In this 'life' we are as if we have 'fallen' into a lower vibration of reality. This is why one would say 'fall into sin'...it relates to attraction to matter as opposed to the Love of God. Concept:"Something would not be a 'sin' in God's Judgement unless you KNOW it is a sin/wrong". Do you think this is an error of thinking? You said sin is a blindness, but it would be a 'chosen' kind of blindness for which we'd be 'responsible'.The other kind of blindness would be 'ignorance/innocence'.

[ReneJorgensenDotCom]

Ultimately, I would see sin more as the separation from truth or God and whether you know about it or not it is still painful to wake up from the illusion. So if you choose it or not does not matter - its the separation that matters. In NDE research people do go through this they have forgotten or were unaware of. The goal seems to be learning about our ignorance and being reunited with God and truth.

[airtwaine]

dude you didnt go to hell god was just showing you what you did and what you caused. If you were in hell you would experience the fear the pain the smell of burning sulfur the demons torturing you the gnashing of teeth and so on

[ReneJorgensenDotCom]

Excuse me but how to you know? I have been there along with many other people who have actually died and gone to the other side. All you seem to have is a book and the literal outdated misinterpretation thereof.

If you would listen, you could learn that painful NDEs are indeed as painful as hellish experiences because you are in another dimension where the pain is 100 - 1000 times stronger then here. This resembles 'burning in a fire' metaphorically but hell its not literally a burning fire.

[ReneJorgensenDotCom]

This is based on over 30 years of research of thousands of NDEs, which leads to the ultimate conclusion that hell is a state of separation from God. This is supported by mainstream Christianity as Pope John II in 1999 described hell as "the state of those who freely and definitely separate themselves from God, the source of all life and joy."

If you read the bible literally, you have to wonder why it uses different words for hell: Tartarus, Hades, Gehenna that all have different meaning?

[airtwaine]

watch 23 minutes in hell. some of the stuff you say is true but i am forced to believe that you are lieying. dont reply until you watch that series and after that watch the hispanic girl that went to hell she was 15 at the time

[ReneJorgensenDotCom]

I have studied plenty of these experiences and there is no lying or conspiracy here. The issue is that there is no absolute literal place that everyone goes to. A Christian will experience a Christian Heaven or Hell but a Buddhist will experience a Buddhist Heaven or Hell (google 11 Thai NDEs). So, who/which interpretation are we to believe in?

NDE research goes deeper than a subjective cultural influenced interpretation and the conclusion arrived at is similar to mainstream Christianity.

[ReneJorgensenDotCom]

Is the Catholic Church lying too? Father Kenneth Baker, SJ, in Fundamentals of Catholicism (pp. 375-376):

We are not certain about the nature of the punishment of purgatory. The Church does not teach dogmatically [that is, definitively] that it is a "physical fire," even though many preachers and some catechisms speak of "the fires of purgatory." The official declarations of the Councils speak only of purifying punishments, not purifying fire. Whatever it is, it is painful.

[airtwaine]

I guess they are lying too. and what did i tell you about replying? In the bible it says that a lot of people that are "priest and holy" are going to hell for false prophecy.

[ReneJorgensenDotCom]

You guess the Catholic Church is lying too and going to Hell for false prophecy?? How about another possibility that maybe you got it wrong because as a fundamentalist you read the Bible literally while mainstream Christians read it more symbolically or metaphorically?

You know about false prophets the Bible says "by their fruits you shall know them" and condemning people to hell, spreading fear, anger and hate, is very bad fruit in my view since the God in find in the Bible is inclusive.

[ReneJorgensenDotCom]

Another Catholic quote:

We need to go beyond Fr. Baker's reflections here and say that this "fire" cannot literally be "physical" fire because the souls in purgatory were separated from their bodies at death, and will not receive new and heavenly bodies until the Judgment Day.

[Solablueangel]

I have read some who 'say' they experienced hell. I thought about it a bit, because many say 'hell' is 'in the earth'. What I *thought of* related to that portrayal was, if someone is 'fallen' magnetically by the gravity of carnal sin then yes they could gravitate to the center of earth, where it is very dark and hot. I only recently conceptualized this. If God gave us a body in 'this life' why would we not possibly have a new body in hell inside the earth? It's just as likely as life itself.:)

[ReneJorgensenDotCom]

Some report having a spiritual body and experiencing far more pain than in the body, but the point here was the hell is not seen as a literal physical place.

[airtwaine]

YES IT IS!!!!!!!!!! IT EVEN SAYS IT IN THE BIBLE!!!!! it tells you that hell is a physical place and it gives you hints that it is in the center of the Earth. I can tell that you sir do not read the bible at all. and for the mainstream christians these days. Most are going to hell for hypocritism. You cant just say your a christian and go to heaven. You cant just do good deeds in this world either. This world is coming to it's last days where people try to change meaning of the bible.

[ReneJorgensenDotCom]

You have no clue what "meaning" is. It only says so in the Bible if you read it LITERALLY. I have read the Bible enough to know it uses many DIFFERENT words for "Hell" with DIFFERENT meanings: "Tartarus" is a non-physical place for lost souls. "Hades" the Greek Underworld is a non-physical realm described symbolically as a physical place. "Gehenna" is the only literal place; a valley outside Jerusalem used to burn waste.

The issue is more that Fundamentalism is alive and well in the 'free' US.

[airtwaine]

Dang guess there is no denying it your an idiot. Watch 23 minutes in hell

[MzPapi4Ever]

@airtwaine Be polite.

[msh464]

@airtwaine it's not your place to dertermain who goes to heaven or hell. just lie your life and let live.

[airtwaine]

@msh464 im not judging. It says in the bible. It gives us a parable about the 10 brides. Read about it. 10 brides are christians. In the end only 5 end up with God. Thats half of the christians

[MzPapi4Ever]

@msh464 I don't think airtwaine is determining who goes to heaven or who goes to hell. He/she is telling the truth, which is that there is no denying that hell is a place. It's real.

One day, everyone will see it. If you believe in God, you've got to believe that there is a place call hell for those who did not repent and accept Jesus Christ's sacrifice.

The saddest part of it all,whether anyone wants to believe or not, it will happen.

[gregrutz]

@airtwaine You can't use the bible to prove the bible stories right.

[angershow1]

i have had demonic attacks, i have experienced the powers of evil first hand its unexplainable. the most awful you could imagine and a billion times worst. there is only one way to heaven and forgiveness of sin, that is through Jesus Christ alone, no other name.

[ReneJorgensenDotCom]

I have had a hell like experience myself and studied the conclusions of over 30 years of NDE research. Rather than a name, it is the Love behind that name which takes you out of hell and into heaven. This is the Love of God and Jesus is a good path. However, this Love is not tied to a specific name as it is free. People have experiences of Heaven in all cultures and religions, and people who go deep within the Love in NDEs, explain God as a form of energy that exists beyond human comprehension.