Superautomatic Espresso Machines and Oily Coffee Beans

[rsilves]

First of all thanks for all the information you are publishing to everyone!

Last week I got a Saeco Xsmall machine and I'm having a hard time choosing the right beans and grind setting. The machine grinds the coffee but then throws it without brewing it.

I tried with different beans, now it's going OK with the Starbucks Tribute blend. The one I want and doesn't work well is "Kenya", also from Sbux. Any recommendation with it?

Thanks!

Rodrigo.

[SeattleCoffeeGear]

@rsilves Usually grinding and discarding the puck means you are grinding too fine for the coffee you're using and the machine can't actually force water through the puck. Try going coarser -- with all dark roasts, you should be in the medium or higher level of coarseness to ensure the grinder and brew group do not clog. Hope that helps! - Kat

[rsilves]

@SeattleCoffeeGear Thank you Kat. I've been trying to figure what is causing the problem and I can tell one thing: The error light turns on as soon as the grinder stops, it doesn't even try to brew it, and the grind seems to be fine (visually compared to other lighter coffees that work OK). So the problem starts in the grinder. Do you know what is this related to? I mean, what is happening inside? Which "sensor" can cause this? I'm just curious lol.

[rsilves]

@SeattleCoffeeGear I wanted to add another thing: Sometimes when cleaning the machine I noticed that some amount of ground coffee stayed stuck in the exit tube of the grinder, so I thought that might be the problem (a sensor detecting stuck coffee in there). But then, once, I put some Tribute Blend beans (the one that works better than the Kenya) and after brewing some coffees I noticed that the hole on the upper part of the machine (outside) was full of ground coffee (...)

[rsilves]

@SeattleCoffeeGear (…), this means that only a tiny amount of coffee was going to the brew group. And it was not showing the error (red light, discard), so I'm sure the "too oily coffee" is not technically the issue. This (grinder clogged with ground coffee) never happened with the Kenya beans, and they do activate this error. I've been using Moka beans bought in another store, I don't enjoy them so much but with them the machine never failed.

[rsilves]

@SeattleCoffeeGear And thanks again. - Rodrigo. (p.s. read the three messages from bottom to top).

[SeattleCoffeeGear]

@rsilves yes, the machine will build up coffee in the chute, so if you change your grind, you will need to run a few shots through before you see the results. I think that the issue you're seeing is the fineness of the grind, which does need to be changed depending on the coffee that your using. Even beans that are a medium or light roast can have more natural fat/oil, be moister and, therefore, require a coarser grind. Play around with coarser with your beans that are being ejected - Kat

[rsilves]

@SeattleCoffeeGear I feel I didn't explain one thing correctly: When it goes wrong, the error (red light) turns on immediately after the grinder stops. I'd say, in the less-than-half-a-second it takes to stop spinning. Way before the brew group moves the ground coffee  to the metal "brew head". Grinder stops, red light on, brew group moves only to discard the puck (totally dry ground coffee). Brew group does not stop at "brew position", water pump never starts, it never tries to brew.

[rsilves]

@rsilves This is why I feel there is another sensor in there doing something I don't understand. I'll try the Kenya beans again next week and see if with the coarsest setting I get it to work. Anyway I'm sure that it'll affect the flavor a lot. Sorry for making so many questions, but Saeco would tell me just to try another coffee. And thanks again ;) - Rodrigo.

[SeattleCoffeeGear]

@rsilves Yes, this is exactly the symptom of the grind being too fine. - Kat

[SeattleCoffeeGear]

@rsilves What the sensor is sensing is that it can't force water through the grounds and it sees it as empty or not able to be activated, so just kicks the puck out. I'm sorry I can't be more precise than this, but if you're seeing it with some coffees and not others, it would lead me to believe that messing with the grind on the coffees that are erroring could be the answer. Let me know how it goes :) - Kat

[drstoeb]

A few months ago we purchased a Saeco Royal Coffee Bar for our office at work. We have been trying various beans to find one that is not oily. Man has that been tough. I'm wondering if you could recommend a few brands that offer a dryer bean. We would prefer to find one in the local grocery store, because we have a business charge account there, but will buy online if that is the only option. Thank you in advance for your time and thank you for these videos. They're great!

[SeattleCoffeeGear]

@drstoeb Some that you might be able to source locally would be illy or Lavazza; I'm not sure if they have an espresso blend, but Dunkin Donuts' roast is nice and medium-hued. If you check out our blog, we have a post called Roast Shades, Names and Flavors and that will give you a good idea, also, of what a name means, color-wise, before you pop the bag open and find out. Hope this helps! - Kat

[pureEVA]

Ahh I would never have known about this unless I had seen this! We just got a new superautomatic (Saeco Syntia) and my husband loves dark beans. Are oily beans ever a problem in bypass dosers? We really love your videos btw :) Thanks for posting!

[SeattleCoffeeGear]

@pureEVA You can use them there a bit easier as you're not going to have the same issues like you do with the grinder -- build up of oily residue. You don't want to grind it for that at a traditional espresso grind -- it needs to be a bit more coarse than what you might expect so that it works well with the brew group. If you want to stick with using oily/dark roast beans in the grinder, you can do so but just be prepared for a little more tech-assisted maintenance on the machines. - Kat

[pureEVA]

@SeattleCoffeeGear wow, such a speedy reply! thanks Kat, that answers my question perfectly

[SeattleCoffeeGear]

@pureEVA You're welcome! Let me know if you need anything else. - Kat

[ytwthcr]

really appreciate the videos you upload...and funny too...really helping me decide which machine to buy...all the best from maputo, mozambique

[SeattleCoffeeGear]

@ytwthcr Wow!! Thank you :) I think you are our first commenter from Africa. Glad we can help you out! - Kat

[llemay]

Thanks a lot for this. I had been seriously considering a superautomatic machine (after 20 years of semiautos) but half of my household is an unrepentant dark roast drinker. The last thing I want to do is to send a machine in for service all the time.

[SeattleCoffeeGear]

@llemay Yeah; it's not too frequent -- you'd need to get it cleaned professionally every year or so, probably -- but still can be a nuisance for dark roasted bean lovers :) - Kat

[elcamarodude]

Hi,

Is there a superautomatic machine that can tolerate oily beans?

Thanks

[SeattleCoffeeGear]

@elcamarodude The new Odea series (Go II and Giro II) have been upgraded to allow a little bit easier processing of oily beans, but you will still have the increased maintenance requirement inherent to oily beans than you do with a drier bean. - Kat

[klarinetta]

Oh this I experience in my Solis Scala conical burr grinder. It takes up to twice as long to grind French roast beans in it than it takes to grinder Vienna and lighter roasted beans. And I have to clean it like no less than once a week to get ti to function right and don't blend into my other coffee brands I might be using.

[klarinetta]

@klarinetta I actually once got like a tea spoon of French roasted coffee sort of almost powder like into my lighter roasted one. It's also gets worse the finer you grind those oily dark roasted beans.

[SeattleCoffeeGear]

@klarinetta Totally - this is an issue with all grinders, the big issue with these, of course, is that you cannot easily clean these internal grinders (like you can take yours apart). I am doing a month long comparison test to show people the difference in residue between dark & medium roasts, so will have a video in September showing that. - Kat

[klarinetta]

@SeattleCoffeeGear Thanks a lot :D