You define zionism as exclusively racist or whatever is hateful and then, of course, the only option is to wipe it out. But wasn't there and isn't there a progressive wing to it, as in all complex and nationalist movements? Jews have as much right to that land now than anyone but not to oppress others and absorb the post '67 borders. To want to "end Israel" sounds a bit genocidal to me or at least a prescription for continued oppression and violence. Two states still seems the only way.
Why is it that people dont see the truth. your comment says (3 months ago), today ANOTHER time we can see the provocative acts of the jews in expanding their illegal settlements. its 60 years the zionists dont give a damn to what the world says. and why? Just because the expanded zionsts wing which covers christians and even muslims are ready to prioritize personal benefits over human rights.There will be just several attempts to treat a tumor, after that the tissue MUST be removed
@HammerSickle I just hpe Dr. Finkelstein would be role model to all of us. It is really not fair for him to bear the whole weight and sacrifice.
Hope all and every single of us accepts his/her responsibility by all means accessible to us, be it a speach, uploading a video, presenting the facts to others....by all means
@Arjuna1901 Well said, but personaly i believe, resistance of a few could slow down a metastasic expansion and by spreading the facts and increasing knowledge the resistance could become more serious and inflict some changes or at least reorganize the formulas. In this manner a wise and awaken resistance against the zionists is obligatory and promissing (regardless what ever the result maybe, it;s at least a humanitarian necessity)
He's exactly the type who gets assassinated =(. Bottom line is, even if something terrible happens to him, we will remember him and it WILL NOT STOP THE REST OF US FROM PUSHING FOR WHAT IS RIGHT!
Hey, folks, don't be naive. The offensive comment below was likely added by a zionist freak intending to undermine this video & all of us sympathetic to the Palestinian struggle.
stop...all the offensive talk....most of us here support the palestinian cause...that does not mean we make such stupid and violent remarks towards others....
Please don't forget when hurling insults like that that the BRILLIANT Finkelstein and his family are Jewish - please don't taint all Jews with the same brush. Some of the most decent people I know are Jewish and I find what you say really offensive.
About 80% of jews are trash (since about 80% of the world jewish population supports "israel").
Look at the poll numbers of jewish people both in "israel" and the USA w/ regard to to the recent slaughter in Gaza. About 80% of jews (in both countries) supported the Gaza slaughter - that makes them TRASH.
Okay, I agree that Israel has a legal right to exist on its pre-1967 borders BUT I think they need to abide by international law and let the refugees back and get out of all the land they occupy. Also, they need to leave the Arabs alone and stop warmongering. That's how peace is going to be achieved.
what does could you mean by a right to exist for Israel? you then would have to say "apartheid has a right to exist" and "ethnic cleansing has a right to exist" and so on. fight racism. abolish apartheid. abolish israel.
Some of those who supported the slaughter are thuggish or racist, but I suspect most are misinformed or fearful. You should think about avoiding crude & offensive generalizations. Finkelstein doesn't use them, and neither does Chalmers Johnson. Why not try to emulate them?
Tell me about it. I think those people who just stand on their soapboxes ranting "zionism is fascism" or "zionism is nazism, blah blah blah" are hurting the Palestinian cause, because they (just like the Israeli apologist crowd who says the same thing about Palestinian resistance fighters) are resorting to rhetoric and blanket statements which are easily refutable from the other side's perspective. If we really wanted to help solve the conflict, we should be more like Norm here.
"zionism is fascism" is inaccurate. zionism is colonialism. zionism is apartheid. zionism is ethnic cleansing. zionism is racism. zionism is mass murder. thus israel has no right to exist as apartheid and ethnic cleansing (Israel itself) are crimes against humanity.
to get rid of Israel, force them to implement the right of return, and grant equal rights to Arabs in Israel. that would handily "get rid" of israel insofar as it is defined as a state for jews, not for all its citizens.
So people can vote countries out of existence? I'm wondering if the Mexicans here in California could vote for California to become part of Mexico again, using your logic.
Furthermore, to simply want to "wipe out Zionism" is pretty impossible. An ism is just an idea. You have to put ism's on the backburner and look at this (and all global conflicts) from an institutional perspective. You can't get rid of -ism's; all you can do is change conditions and reform institutions. That's what we should be doing if we want to help not just the Palestinians but all people who are oppressed.
just an idea, like feudalism or racism?? we *can* wipe these out because they're constructed, not absolute.
all you can do is reform institutions? the haitian revolution, the abolition of slavery--reforms? or maybe this is what you meant by "change conditions"?
let me ask you this--do you agree that "israel" is an apartheid state by definition and that its continued existence necessitates ethnic cleansing?
You want to "reform" the symptoms. I'm after the disease.
Abolishing slavery was reforming institutions. Same with revolutions. I agree that Israel's laws are racist, so what we can do is campaign to change their laws, not wipe them out all together as a country (which is impossible).
Isms are ideas. Racism cannot be destroyed. Racist policies can be, but isms can't. People will still be racist in their heads whether the laws are racist or not.
Go ahead. Tell me how to directly destroy ideas and I will listen.
I want to say, that if Israeli Jews don't want to live with Palestinians, they can go back to Russia/Germany/Iran/Morocco/North Hollywood, I fucking swear.
A lot of them are from North Hollywood too, that's why I mentioned it.
What I want to know is, if Jews are really being persecuted in Iran or Morocco or wherever, why don't they just fight for rights in their own countries like the civil rights workers did? Why do they have to kick Palestinians out of their homes? It makes no sense.
The weird thing is though that Jews are NOT being persecuted in Iran - the're actually protected by the Constitution because they are considered to be People of the Book. Sure they are discriminated against becaus e thye are an ethnic minority but name me one of the major powers in the world which does NOT have that problem in their own land! And Iran actually has the highest population of Jews in the Middle East outside of Israel!!
I know. It's very sad to hear all the Iranian Jews I go to college with telling me how their parents were "kicked out" of Iran back in 1979 and the only way they can "have justice" is if Israel or the USA nukes Iran, total bullshit.
Palestinian Arabs have lived there for 1000 years.
And for 1000 years, the majority of world Jewry lived in Eastern Europe, Iran, Spain, and North Africa, so they can go back there if they don't want to live next door to Palestinians.
Norman Finkelstein is an outstanding scholar! You can't touch him bums.
bahjad7 6 months ago
PACK YOUR BAGS BITCHES, AND GET THE FUCK OUT!!! GET THE FUCK OUTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT
bulerias81 6 months ago
this man is great.....
TheScorpiodan 1 year ago
I'm a Muslim and I know why I respect this man, he is standing to speard the truth everytime I see his lectures, god bless u doc.
mazazezo 1 year ago
does anyone have the whole video or transcript???
LSRochon 2 years ago
haha the truth hurts: "Israel pack up your bags and leave" XD
TheRivoluzione 2 years ago
You define zionism as exclusively racist or whatever is hateful and then, of course, the only option is to wipe it out. But wasn't there and isn't there a progressive wing to it, as in all complex and nationalist movements? Jews have as much right to that land now than anyone but not to oppress others and absorb the post '67 borders. To want to "end Israel" sounds a bit genocidal to me or at least a prescription for continued oppression and violence. Two states still seems the only way.
moroccanroller 2 years ago
Why is it that people dont see the truth. your comment says (3 months ago), today ANOTHER time we can see the provocative acts of the jews in expanding their illegal settlements. its 60 years the zionists dont give a damn to what the world says. and why? Just because the expanded zionsts wing which covers christians and even muslims are ready to prioritize personal benefits over human rights.There will be just several attempts to treat a tumor, after that the tissue MUST be removed
imandxb31 1 year ago
Norman is fucking great!
Atai9 2 years ago 7
Norman is fantastic...great...on table nobody can win from him.
HammerSickle 2 years ago 4
@HammerSickle I just hpe Dr. Finkelstein would be role model to all of us. It is really not fair for him to bear the whole weight and sacrifice.
Hope all and every single of us accepts his/her responsibility by all means accessible to us, be it a speach, uploading a video, presenting the facts to others....by all means
imandxb31 1 year ago
No State has the inherent and arbitrary right to exist.
It's a structural defect. The entire Nation-State system is broken.
So I don't think most States have the right to exist. But it's one thing to question rights and acknowledge a fact.
States do exist and we ought to reconcile that fact.
Israel - as horrid as it is - isn't going anywhere. That isn't due to virtue. It's due to money and guns.
Arjuna1901 2 years ago 2
All too true, however, at which point do money and guns cost too many Senate seats and unfulfilled grants?
skorchedutopia 2 years ago
@Arjuna1901 Well said, but personaly i believe, resistance of a few could slow down a metastasic expansion and by spreading the facts and increasing knowledge the resistance could become more serious and inflict some changes or at least reorganize the formulas. In this manner a wise and awaken resistance against the zionists is obligatory and promissing (regardless what ever the result maybe, it;s at least a humanitarian necessity)
imandxb31 1 year ago
Finkelstein is a hero.
mabuhay16 2 years ago 2
He's exactly the type who gets assassinated =(. Bottom line is, even if something terrible happens to him, we will remember him and it WILL NOT STOP THE REST OF US FROM PUSHING FOR WHAT IS RIGHT!
crackahcrackah 2 years ago
Hey, folks, don't be naive. The offensive comment below was likely added by a zionist freak intending to undermine this video & all of us sympathetic to the Palestinian struggle.
flimpkin4 2 years ago
Sorry, I just checked the person's page. He's no zionist.
flimpkin4 2 years ago
This person is a racist nut, check the blog they have a link to on their page!
juliaisafilmbuff123 2 years ago
Comment removed
aewester 2 years ago
I know!
juliaisafilmbuff123 2 years ago
Who's Jewish?!
fancygirlie 2 years ago
Comment removed
aewester 2 years ago
Oh, I know that - thought you were talking about the racist guy further down. I checked out his blog! What a nut! :D
fancygirlie 2 years ago
stop...all the offensive talk....most of us here support the palestinian cause...that does not mean we make such stupid and violent remarks towards others....
art545454 2 years ago 2
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Fuking jew scum. If the USA had any sense, it would be carpet bombing Tel Aviv.
God bless the Palestinians.
jimj122680 2 years ago
That's classy. Douchebag.
Jelperman 2 years ago
Way to help the Palestinian cause, fucking idiot.
juliaisafilmbuff123 2 years ago
Please don't forget when hurling insults like that that the BRILLIANT Finkelstein and his family are Jewish - please don't taint all Jews with the same brush. Some of the most decent people I know are Jewish and I find what you say really offensive.
fancygirlie 2 years ago 2
About 80% of jews are trash (since about 80% of the world jewish population supports "israel").
Look at the poll numbers of jewish people both in "israel" and the USA w/ regard to to the recent slaughter in Gaza. About 80% of jews (in both countries) supported the Gaza slaughter - that makes them TRASH.
jimj122680 2 years ago
Okay, I agree that Israel has a legal right to exist on its pre-1967 borders BUT I think they need to abide by international law and let the refugees back and get out of all the land they occupy. Also, they need to leave the Arabs alone and stop warmongering. That's how peace is going to be achieved.
juliaisafilmbuff123 2 years ago
what does could you mean by a right to exist for Israel? you then would have to say "apartheid has a right to exist" and "ethnic cleansing has a right to exist" and so on. fight racism. abolish apartheid. abolish israel.
Egorend 2 years ago
Okay. Tell me how to get rid of countries and I'll listen.
juliaisafilmbuff123 2 years ago
Some of those who supported the slaughter are thuggish or racist, but I suspect most are misinformed or fearful. You should think about avoiding crude & offensive generalizations. Finkelstein doesn't use them, and neither does Chalmers Johnson. Why not try to emulate them?
flimpkin4 2 years ago 3
Tell me about it. I think those people who just stand on their soapboxes ranting "zionism is fascism" or "zionism is nazism, blah blah blah" are hurting the Palestinian cause, because they (just like the Israeli apologist crowd who says the same thing about Palestinian resistance fighters) are resorting to rhetoric and blanket statements which are easily refutable from the other side's perspective. If we really wanted to help solve the conflict, we should be more like Norm here.
juliaisafilmbuff123 2 years ago
"zionism is fascism" is inaccurate. zionism is colonialism. zionism is apartheid. zionism is ethnic cleansing. zionism is racism. zionism is mass murder. thus israel has no right to exist as apartheid and ethnic cleansing (Israel itself) are crimes against humanity.
to get rid of Israel, force them to implement the right of return, and grant equal rights to Arabs in Israel. that would handily "get rid" of israel insofar as it is defined as a state for jews, not for all its citizens.
Egorend 2 years ago 2
So people can vote countries out of existence? I'm wondering if the Mexicans here in California could vote for California to become part of Mexico again, using your logic.
juliaisafilmbuff123 2 years ago
Furthermore, to simply want to "wipe out Zionism" is pretty impossible. An ism is just an idea. You have to put ism's on the backburner and look at this (and all global conflicts) from an institutional perspective. You can't get rid of -ism's; all you can do is change conditions and reform institutions. That's what we should be doing if we want to help not just the Palestinians but all people who are oppressed.
juliaisafilmbuff123 2 years ago
just an idea, like feudalism or racism?? we *can* wipe these out because they're constructed, not absolute.
all you can do is reform institutions? the haitian revolution, the abolition of slavery--reforms? or maybe this is what you meant by "change conditions"?
let me ask you this--do you agree that "israel" is an apartheid state by definition and that its continued existence necessitates ethnic cleansing?
You want to "reform" the symptoms. I'm after the disease.
Egorend 2 years ago
Abolishing slavery was reforming institutions. Same with revolutions. I agree that Israel's laws are racist, so what we can do is campaign to change their laws, not wipe them out all together as a country (which is impossible).
Isms are ideas. Racism cannot be destroyed. Racist policies can be, but isms can't. People will still be racist in their heads whether the laws are racist or not.
Go ahead. Tell me how to directly destroy ideas and I will listen.
juliaisafilmbuff123 2 years ago
Ideas are born of conditions--they aren't eternal.
lusotropicalism was an idea that was directly destroyed by the portuguese revolution.
feudal*ism* was a system, not just an idea. it ended. racism is also a system that can end.
slavery was a system that was not only reformed, but was ended. there's a difference between reform & revolution.
Zionism is not only an idea, but one which has a form, Israel.
Equal rights in all of historic Palestine means the end of Israel by definition.
Egorend 2 years ago
Does anyone have the entire debate?? He is a freaking GENIUS!
fancygirlie 2 years ago
My friend attended this and probably taped it. I'll ask him.
juliaisafilmbuff123 2 years ago
Thanks! :o)
fancygirlie 2 years ago
Finkelstein rocks!
Arjuna1901 2 years ago 3
I want to say, that if Israeli Jews don't want to live with Palestinians, they can go back to Russia/Germany/Iran/Morocco/North Hollywood, I fucking swear.
juliaisafilmbuff123 2 years ago
Or Brooklyn, where so many of the "settlers" in Gaza and elsewhere in the occupied territories come from.
colibri1 2 years ago
A lot of them are from North Hollywood too, that's why I mentioned it.
What I want to know is, if Jews are really being persecuted in Iran or Morocco or wherever, why don't they just fight for rights in their own countries like the civil rights workers did? Why do they have to kick Palestinians out of their homes? It makes no sense.
juliaisafilmbuff123 2 years ago
The weird thing is though that Jews are NOT being persecuted in Iran - the're actually protected by the Constitution because they are considered to be People of the Book. Sure they are discriminated against becaus e thye are an ethnic minority but name me one of the major powers in the world which does NOT have that problem in their own land! And Iran actually has the highest population of Jews in the Middle East outside of Israel!!
fancygirlie 2 years ago
I know. It's very sad to hear all the Iranian Jews I go to college with telling me how their parents were "kicked out" of Iran back in 1979 and the only way they can "have justice" is if Israel or the USA nukes Iran, total bullshit.
juliaisafilmbuff123 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
and the arabs can go back to any of the 22 countries that they came from
the jews cant...they were expelled from the arab countries....one million of them...without compensation
there is no palestine...it never existed
brabon1 2 years ago
Palestinian Arabs have lived there for 1000 years.
And for 1000 years, the majority of world Jewry lived in Eastern Europe, Iran, Spain, and North Africa, so they can go back there if they don't want to live next door to Palestinians.
juliaisafilmbuff123 2 years ago
God I love this man. He is amazing!
juliaisafilmbuff123 2 years ago
Gotta love him!
wmirza89 2 years ago
What an outstanding man. Is there any possibility of the full lecture being posted?
HugoNewman 2 years ago 2
i do have the full debate (well...i didnt record donna divine's nonsense) but it seems like its too big to post on youtube
fazzaq 2 years ago
please please please try to post some other parts too....
thanks:)
art545454 2 years ago 2
Just break it up into parts.
juliaisafilmbuff123 2 years ago
hi fazzaq, could u at least post the audio elsewhere so that we can listen to Prof Finkelstein's lecture. Please u must share
ibnadiy 2 years ago
You can break it into parts. There are several of Finkelstein's lectures here that are posted like that.
mixedblessing 2 years ago
love him. absolutely love him.
art545454 2 years ago
Was this debate at Mount Holyoke? Damn I missed it!
yamuboy 2 years ago 2
yup...it was at Mount Holyoke College
art545454 2 years ago