"The Trojan Women" (1971 film) - Helen (Irene Papas) pleads

[EastJazzman]

We see how big a bitch Helen of Troy was, beautiful yes but also troublesome,

Though Irene Papas gave a epic performance no arguments there, she played the role of a selfish bitch perfectly.

[ReneODeay]

oh, Hecuba. Oh, Katherine. you told her good

[Osaka13]

More authentic, yes. She's actually Greek. Beauty is relative.

[yourengland]

Papas is the greatest Helen I've ever seen, and in ways you don't expect: normally, Helen is portrayed as blond and fair (see Diane Kruger - the whiter a woman, the more "beautiful" she is), but here all the other main actresses are pale and it's Helen who is dark (and staggeringly beautiful). And usually if films want to make a woman sexy they emphasize her boobs, but here it's her back that's exposed. She inverts every cliche about beauty, and thus redefines it.

[pangellify]

arvanites are greek people and so is irene pappas!!! enough with the fights about greeks and albanians....we are all people with different pesonalities and it's not appropriate to generalize our prejudices against a whole ethnicity.i'm greek and i don't understand these conflicts.however the albanian history books in schools claim that the albanian borders really end in preveza,a very greek city,so don't put the blame on the common people of albania.there are shit in every ethnicities for sure!

[tzibis]

She is so beautiful! A true charming lady!

[Rellirell02]

This isn't what I thought it was. I was hoping that it was true to Euripides' lines of his play. However, Irene Papas is very beautiful. I think she's speaking her lines a bit too dramatically. The chorus...is a bit funny cause they shout one word at random. Lol

[diyia4]

simply great... fantastic greek theatre.....

[diyia4]

great ...... real artistic... really greek theatre!!!! fantastic...

[Asxhmoula]

She looks like the ancient greek sculptures! Amazing.

[Vallerie9]

interesting

[Vallerie9]

very interesting!

[vivelhistoire]

I love Irene's accent... it's lovely.

Speechpessi, dear, calm down and ignore provocation. You guys are all good people, Greeks, other. Try to make peace rather than war. Peace and love people. (does the mediterranean temper understand that? I try... )

[mihalis100]

soy griego ,me encanta los imortales monologos de una grande tragediana ,una entre los mas grandes acuerdece de los de ELECTRA esta Z y Zorba el griego son imortales ,radeada de la grande pleeiada de monstruos sagardos garcias ala memoria de la pelicula y los que aporta en YOU toube

estas perlas para ser conocidad por nueva generaciones GRACIAS

[Aurelius27x]

Absolutely stunning performance.

[brupass]

Que guapa Irene Papas, es una diosa!

[sophialeb]

A much more beautiful and authentic Helen than Diane Kruger in Troy...

[anavader9019]

@sophialeb Yeah, Irene was stunningly gorgeous

[twooffour]

@sophialeb

Actually, Diane Kruger is prettier ;)

[MrFanAmerica]

@twooffour actually she's not...

[twooffour]

@MrFanAmerica

She is.

[MrFanAmerica]

@twooffour ...nope...she's not

[7511540]

definitely!

[anavader9019]

@sophialeb much more beautiful, sexy, and intelligent looking...

[paidagwgos]

Irene Papas....an excellent actess!!! Euripides a wonderful poet !!! The two others Kakogiannis' films(Iphigenia and Electra) are also good, but I prefer this one...

[joyhorse13]

It's ironic that Irene Papas would later star in Armand Assante's "The Odyssey" (as Odysseus' mother)

[akaflint10]

WOW

[nisiriti]

katharine hepburn and irene papas are gorgeous women and great actresses too. rare combination!!!

[31071946]

One of the great Greek women! She, Mercouri and Callas!

[queenspersephone]

Totally agree with you, three goddess!!!

[hugh0221]

@31071946 And don't forget Bakoyannis!

[sophialeb]

She has a cute accent...

[luciadellavita]

beautiful passionate performances

[gandesas]

Great Irene, nice like Athena !!!!!!

[Federicopera]

How beautiful!!!

[MissyHolland]

I love the way Kate says "Evil".

Battenwood, that's so romantic and beautiful. Guys like you give us hope.

[karrathe]

Απόλλων και Μαρσύας. Πίνακας του Jusepe de Ribera

[karrathe]

Απόλλων και Μαρσύας. Πίνακας του Jusepe de Ribera

[PeterHeizer]

It is time for you Albanians to come down to Earth from your land of dreams of Illyrian ancestry etc.etc. to decide who and what you are and start living on your own land in accordance with the laws of Western civilization. So, stop persecuting Serbian people in Kosovo, stop distructing our churches, I invite you to become Europeans. Good luck in that enterprise from a Serbian.

[TheConniptionXIII]

albanians have giant square heads, no culture except for the ones that they stole from the countries they immigrate to. I live in America Albanians open Italian restaurants, they are disrespectful to the peaceful jewish community in my city, they start fights in places they are unwelcome because of their nature, they treat their women like shitt and if you everEVER say that Irene Papas was a albanian again ill bitch slap the sliver of space you hold on a globe until my fingers bleed.

[Agrina202]

Listen u stupid gay greek! It is very easy to threaten albanians behind your stupid computer and by your hate on your heart u show that u are the racist, the savage, dhe arrogant idiot who thinks that nobody is beter than you . Somebody made a mistake and thought she's albanian, big f... deal , u can have the bitch ,we have much better actress. Now go fuck your brother and don't u ever make a racist remarks towards albanians ever again!!!!

[TheConniptionXIII]

im not greek you thick headed bastard, im not even balkan that just goes to show you that your RACIST, and ARROGANT to think that only a greek would say something like that.....go try and be Italian and leave me alone

[Agrina202]

hahahahah, u stupid retard, Yes u are greek , u are just trying to be slik like i'm not personaly attached with this shit, and if u want people to leave u alone don't provoke arguments that u can't handle. I don't have to try to be anything other than albanian which i'm very proud of, and if that bothers u , u can just go and kill yourself couse there's not much alse u can do, hahahaha. Sad really!

[speechpessi]

Hey albanian animals go back to your caves. What the fuch do u want in civilization? Ουστ γαμώ τη ράτσα σας.

PS Ευχαριστώ για το βίντεο και συγνώμη για το σχόλιο, αλλα δεν κρατήθηκα :P

[Agrina202]

@speechpessi

If we belong to caves , so do u , u stupid ignorant bastard, since we are as old as u! Hate shows ignorance and misfortune and if you are proud of that , then i guess u are the animal. I don't hate u , i pity u! I admire Irene Papas no matter what .but hating others for their ethnicity? I doubt u people today have any connection to antient greeks , b/c they were tolerant and civilized even for that time, and u are ignorant, arrogant , thinking u are better than anybody. It;s sad!

[speechpessi]

I hate Albanians the same way i hate killers and kid rapists. Most of Albanias (every single one i know and believe me there are millions in Greece) are thieves, drug dealers, rapists, killers or at least cheats. They are bad people, they hate us.They always hit people "on the back". I love my country man, but i never said we're the best. Dont put words in my mouth.

[Agrina202]

@speechpessi

your stereotyping shows what kind of ignorant ass whole u are. Albanians can be anything but kid rapists and '' hit people in the back'', but u know what? Don't reply to me couse it's not worth arguing with illiterates and nazi like u! They hate u bc u used them , did the wrong in so many levels when they were in desperate need. Plus we don't hate u as much as u hate us b/c u feel superior and we don't let u put us down in any way possible, that's what drives u crazy! fuck off!

[speechpessi]

Well if we are all these things you say we are...DONT FUCKING COME TO OUR COUNTRY. We didnt come to yours and complained. You do! (Stereotyping? All we hear on the news is " an albianian robbed" "albanian killed" albanian raped". These are FACTS not a stereotype or prejudice.

[Agrina202]

@speechpessi

What news? Your news?Go kill yourself u stupud dickhead , and remember yourself time to time that u live in Europe and it"s 21st century before u talk crazy shit couse people are going to think u belong to a psychiatric hospital! Like there are no greeks in Albania!! Ignorant fuck!

[speechpessi]

dude you curse all the time, you talk about suicide, you don't admit anything, you think everything you say is right and i bet you think you're not crazy. Well,sorry but that's the definition of a mentally deranged person and i ain't gonnna make your situation even worse. Farewell

[Agrina202]

@speechpessi

haha,thank you! u officially made it clear that u have a mental defect! Admit to what?your racist remarks toward my people?Iwas only defending myself from crazy acuzations.Did i say that in a country that is part of UN,like Greece,the basic human rights are violated ( remember Athens last year, destroyed by uyour own people becouse of this)? no! B/c i pretend to see the good part of people and believe that that's important! not like u with your midieval mentality! u are worthless

[PeterHeizer]

Serbs were invited by the Byzantine Emperor to settle Balkans vacated and destroyed by barbaric tribes. We have since 6th century developed our state, had our kings, fought our battles, survived the Ottoman occupation, fought Austrians in Ist world war on the side of the Allies (France, GB, USA), and the II WW on that same side, we are the ones with the true history in this region. You are the ones living in myths. You are the ones conflating your history.

[CanoPinto]

Stop to use history to support your primitive nationalism - both of you. History shows entire stupid mankind came from the same small australopitecus flock. It is nonsense speak about different origems, besides, your precious nations will eventually die... nations are fakws, they are created by small elites to keep large amount of idiots dieing in wars or working for them.

[PeterHeizer]

Sorry, qenisharrit, you are the one who should wake up from the myths and dreams. Dardania did not exist in Byzantine time and Slavic tribes have settled Balkans including Kosovo from early 6th century on. Albanians are first mentioned in 11th century by Byzantine historians as a small tribe residing in hills of Northern Albania, wherefrom they expanded to the rest of the teritory they now occupy (including Kosovo).

[PeterHeizer]

And as for claim that they are "slavic Turks" it has nothing to do with the trouth- if they have any slavic blood, it is because of the Slavs which they forceably assimilated during Turkish Ottoman occupation of Balkans, at which time they were used as Ottoman punishment troops, executing all kinds of cruelties over Slavic population. They served every occupant force in Balkans. Never fought for freedom in Balkans. First appear in historical sources under this name in 11 century.

[PeterHeizer]

It's truly sickening listening to Albanians trying to steel everybody culture and history in Balkans. Like claiming that Serbian Orthodox churches in Kosovo are theirs, while they are doing their best to ruin them. Also, just pay attention to the names they give their children: Agamemnon, Electra, Antigona, Agenor etc. How ridiculous does it sound besides their surnames like: Bljakaj, Mljataj, Muharemaj etc. Historyless, cultureless nobodies...

[qenisharrit]

By the time when Otoman empire ocupied our land in the late in the 14th century, dardania and other ylirian were living under the Btzant empire (which menas they have been christian orthodoks), and have every right to claim every church in the country...

we Live by majority, we breed, we develope our culture, and you my frinend... live in the myths which are not true and are build by the people that are responsible for the late 25 years of serbias donwards...

[balkancoolhead]

if there is an inferiority complex among albanians, it's related to two factors, 1) poverty, and 2) sensitivity about the religious label which greeks and serbs worked so hard to attach to us, even though we are clearly the most tolerant and socially progressive society in the balkans, and this finally recognized by the capitols that matter in this world, Washington, London, Paris, Berlin and Rome.

[glagouros]

Ok I agree with that!I m not in too labels and not into religions!The truth is the Albanians didnt care much about creeds!A good thing if u ask me!As for myths most are common to all indoeuropean peoples' Pelasgian isnt indoeuropean!Oriental influence is abundant!Yet the outcome is genuinely greek!as the acrophonic alphabet is a greek invention though the influence is phoenician (no wovels)!Architecture is influenced by egypt (idea of pillars) yet nothing is egyptian about it!

[balkancoolhead]

how silly... but at least you note the origins... how do you reconcile all of your contradictions? try some raki, it helps us with ours! ;-)

[glagouros]

As for our membership, even with all our problems we are way ahead you Balcans!we belong to the old core of Europe!we applied in 1959 to become a member(!!!) and would have been in much earlier if it hadnt been for the Hunta!Try beating that!As for churches, labels and diversities I agree!But I want tolerate pussilanimous degradation or distortion of facts or nuances!So what if Papas had a long distant -blood- connection to an emigrant albanian?Did she not breathe and feel in greek?Be reasonable

[balkancoolhead]

only economically ahead. socially, you missed the enlightenment because of the fanatical orthodox battle against the western church, so you missed all the reforms and progress. we start from a post-communist base, economically down, but socially way ahead.

[2muchforem]

great actress. she looks more arab than greek, although both are very similar.

[konig82]

This is a great Greek film, one of the best of our cinematic history. Thanx for uploading! Kakoyannis is excelent director...

[konig82]

A great Greek mediterannean woman, a person that spread the Greek coulture with her voice, her acts and her spirit.

[artisticgymnastics]

BRANO IRENE MAS

[nikolaspapa]

Irene has the unnique combination of the classical Greek beauty with the Greek passion.Thank you for all!!

[xdarkwingsofdesire6]

You really should upload more of this movie, Irene Papas is amazing in this!

[ardaraith]

Do you know if anyone has a clip of her transition to kneeling?

[balkancoolhead]

it was so wonderful to learn that she is Albanian... one by one, so many greek's of albanian origin are revealing their origin, despite a repressive greek culture.

[dalaiklama]

She is what? Where did you get that amazing piece of information?

[nixter888]

Idiot balkancoolhrad!!!The most GREEK of the GREEKS,Albanian you said clown~!!!!Can you see the Great Greek beauty,and GREEK physic....IDIOT!!!!....YOU ARE GOING TO THE GREEL VIDEOS,,,,KOLOALBANE,and YOU ARE DREAMING THAT THE GREAT GREEKS ARE Albanian,,,,,,idiot!!!oust!!!!

[konig82]

Hahaha, do you take lot of drugs???

[balkancoolhead]

i was completely sober when she said it ;-)

[konig82]

For sure. In your dream. This woman supported with every artistic way the greek culture, with her voice in greek music, with her performances in both greek tragedy and commedy in theater etc.

Your nationalism and your anti greek-phobic feelings have no limits.

[balkancoolhead]

my friend, until you understand the role of albanians in your history, you will have a distorted understanding of history. it's not about nationalism it's about cultural identities. i couldn't care less about nationalism which distorts everything.

[konig82]

The problem is that I understand the role of Albanians in our history. You probably don't know that Albabians of Northern Greece supported the Germans in the 2nd world war, and fighted with fasists against Greeks.

I dont say that all the times were against Greece. But you should also realize the possitive role of Greeks to your history. Many albanians live in Greece because Greeks are tolerant to foreigners. That now Europe is not so much as you know.

And, anyway, Irene Papas is greek.

[balkancoolhead]

albanians did not support germans in WWII, that is a part of the propaganda that greek nationalists had to use to justify the ethnic cleansing and expulsions of the Cams. albania was a weak country, but still managed to save all the jews, and, in fact, there were 3 times more jews in albania after WWII than before... both of these facts are recognized by Yad Vashem and the govt of Israel. the vast majority of albanians refused to join the nazis and many were sent to concentration camps for it.

[konig82]

yes thats why the Albanians of Epirous were inprisoned for War crimes against Greeks by international court after 2nd warld war..

Wake up...

[balkancoolhead]

ha ha... what planet are you living on konig. wake up yourself and begin respecting all the arvanites have given to modern greece... the best music, folk dancing and of course the most beautiful women.

yasso arvanita!

[konig82]

hahaha... good luck with your brain. Read the biography of Papas. The film that you posted is Greek history, not albanian crimes (see world war 2 in Epirous).

[balkancoolhead]

greek crimes, see Cameria. anyway, see it or not, those crimes are soon to be on the docket before EU courts, whereas the imaginary crimes you reference in Epenis are nowhere to be found, except in greek nationalist tactical playbooks.

yasso arvanita!

[konig82]

Cameria? Albanians of Cameria were judged by international court, dear, for their crimes in the side of Axis (fasistic alliance)...

I can not understand your grecophobia, especially because in the area of Albania and Epirous Greeks and Albanians were living for centuries together. Are you religious fanatic, phobic, or something?

[balkancoolhead]

you have a skewed understanding of history, conveniently revisionist. i applaud your subtlety, but your nationalist agenda is transparent just the same.

no, we are not even interested in religious differences. in the Balkans, this is a uniquely Orthodox obsession shared by the fraternal church/state entities of Serbia and Greece.

perhaps we are just jealous of all the heroes generated by the Greco/Slavic alliance. how can we be expected to compete with such bravery and humanity. ;p

[glagouros]

The problem with Turks and Albanians is they think they invented different stuff the Greeks adoringly adopted!Thats a laugh!As if this continuus evolving 4000 years culture had no achievements whatsoever in dance, food song and folk lore that they had to welcomingly introduce what??the restricted choices of some wandering nomads?Be serious!!!Is you and the entire mediterranean that was influenced by hellenism not vice versa!Swallow the bitter truth!

[glagouros]

The arvanites you refer to would have your head on a plate if you even made a hint of them being anything different than Graikoi!Of course at the time they knew better that around the miserable Balcans there was no nation of any interesting background or culture to attach to... What can a poor historyless and cultureless downtrodden Balcan man do than reduce the culture of his neighboors only to feel comfortable with his own cultural poverty.

[balkancoolhead]

not the arvanites we know... they are proud, but it's true that in a reactionary semi-fascist nation that confuses religion and state to the point of fanaticism (though not quite like Serbian fanaticism thanks to the NATO leash around your necks and the massive aid you rely on from the U.S., NATO and the EU).

you are a malaka,it's as simple as that, damaged goods. you are so brainwashed with such a warped view of our ancient history together that you cannot even begin to grasp how off you are.

[glagouros]

But what can one say, its a pity you have no actual background to be proud of besides a liaison with the Nazis!So ok your Illyrian... so what? tell us sth from any literary data before 15th cent AD.Yes there were Albanians but no albanian culture whatsoever...Its an inferior culture that brainwashes its people only to make them feel they can stand up to a superior culture, and that happens mainly through historical distortion!

[balkancoolhead]

what do you mean liason with the nazis you ignorant greek peasant... we are the ONLY nation in europe that saved ALL the jews in our nation and we had 3 times more jews after WWII than before... you malakas sent 90% of your jews to the gas chambers, sometimes spitting on them and calling them names as they were taken away...

more references for you, now that you are a UK educated greek peasant: check Yad Vashem and the Israeli government to find out more about our unique role in WWII.

[glagouros]

big deal you saved the Jews!if the Jews had issues in Greece they wouldnt have flourished!the only reason they were saved in Albania is PURE LUCK and total indifference on your behalf!You just couldnt bother enough to save your own hides, let alone the Jews!Some ordeal!!haha

[balkancoolhead]

so wrong and so cynical you are... why did you bother to go the UK if you are not transformed in any way to being a more curious and worldly human being?

what an archimalakas.

[glagouros]

for an anti-greek and a distorter of greek history and culture u know many "nice" words in Greek!Keep it up' gradually you 'll savour the fruits of a more sublime essence!Perhaps you 'll become proud enough to say you were...hellenised!Goodnight neighboor ;P

[balkancoolhead]

by the way, i am not anti-greek at all... i love ancient hellenic culture, at least the essential openness of it, but i am against nationalists and those who cannot separate church and state and accept diversity...

[glagouros]

You are contradicting yourself!Its very hard for albanians skopians and turks to compeet with such a renowned culture, they always have to usurp it or prove its not worth only to comfort their feeling of being retarded!As for contradiction in culture its the very essence of hellenism!the miracle of it!Dionysian and apollonian!I seriously doubt you are older as a culture, a name and a language!Pelasgians are not identified with albanians only.They reach up to the Teutons in Germany!

[balkancoolhead]

you are an idiot, but at least i am discovering with each passing day how easy it will be for us to surpass you.

[glagouros]

what was progressive about communism??are u kidding me?If Greece is backward once u are retarded 1000 times more!We came a long way trying to fill the gap!U have only now broken away from your shell!in the eastern mediterranean Greece has always been ahead in all!The rest of u just follow:first to get independence and national state, 1st university, 1st in the EU, 1st in Nato etc etc

[balkancoolhead]

i am not communist, and we had a monster of a dictator. but there were many things progressive about communism, first of all, the complete liberation of women, second, free access to education at all levels for all, and third, a sense of internationalism.

you are not a very educated man, that much is clear, but i think you do have a good heart. i suggest you read more about these things. perhaps a fresh trip to the UK is in order for you, this time, i suggest you go to the library! ;-)

[glagouros]

there is nothing good in totalitarian regimes in any aspect!those liberties are only superficial!Perhaps I m not educated but neither are u!The arvanites u talk about didnt even want to hear about their albanian descent!Thats how ashamed they were about coming from nowhere and being nobody!Yet they assisted the cause!The albanians were sleeping until the austrian/italians urged them for their own interests!

[glagouros]

just because you have some pelasgic origin doesnt mean the pelasgians were albanians!Albania as a state and culture is a recent invention thanks to sb elses interests in the region!The arvanites occupied only some parts in Greece cohabiting with the greeks by which they were ABSORBED since they had no cultural identity whatsoever!They were never a majority in Greece!

[balkancoolhead]

as for greeks being first in the balkans... that has not been the case for about 1900 years. and as for the establishment of an independent nation, this was achieved as a result of two phases, first ali pasha the albanian who carved out a fierce autonomy from istanbul which eventually got him killed, and second, as a result of the christian albanians, bouboulina, bocari, koloktroni, etc. who launched and led the second phase, establishing an independent nation which spoke albanian and greek.

[glagouros]

Greek culture under shifting shapes has survived and been ahead since prehistory, even under the romans!Its bad fate was to be surrounded by nobodies as slavs turks albanians and bulgarians who cant stand being close to such a rich and globally renowned culture that they have to either steal it or deminish it only to feel better about their cultural and historic poverty!U steal a mans garment to clothe your nudity!Thats the only reason for such stupid remarks!

[balkancoolhead]

hellenism was a beautiful period in human history, a moment of openness, assimilation and integration of various subcultures:

1) Pelasgian Mythology (not greek)

2) Phoenician Script (not greek)

3) Corinthian, Ionic and Dorian Architecture (not greek)

4) Illyrian metalurgy (not greek)

5) etc.

[glagouros]

haha!I am definetely talking with a niggard!No point continuing!Well we were smart enough to become famous!That was some worth!Influence is a phenomenon for all' there is no parthenogenesis!The essence is what u do with your inspirations and influences!At least we survived in history through that!What did you leave behind?a feeble name of dangerous bandits?Believe what makes you comfort your poor ethnic misery.

[balkancoolhead]

we are older than you and we survived even through greek, roman, slavic, and so many other invaders, what are you talking about.

you just cannot see history for what it is. but what can i say, we have come to have very low expectations of modern "greeks", as has most of europe, many who still call into question the very membership of greece in the EU.

goodnight to you too, and good luck digesting all the corrections of history you will face over the next decade or so.

yasso arvanita!

[balkancoolhead]

as for modern greece, albanians went there because it was close, a neighbor, certainly not because it is a friendly country to foreigners!!! ha ha... you must be kidding... every week, there is an article on BBC or in many European journals about racism in greece. many albanians went to italy as well, they had a completely different experience and today they are integrated after a difficult period. in greece, you are backward and famous for intolerance.

try to accept who you are, not fantasy.

[konig82]

Haha.. We are not friendly eh? That's why your country lives because of the immigrants to Greece and Italy? We are unfriendly because we give you jobs and we dont prevent illegal immigration???

I could talk more about the criminality in every country that there are albanians.. 1st minority group in Greece and Italy in criminality!

You are the unfriendly. Rasism in Greece is zero comparing to the rest of Europe, I ve lived abroad and I know. Bye.

[balkancoolhead]

"i've lived abroad i know" ha ha lol... what does "abroad" mean for a greek, you worked in salonika for 3 months during an internship? ha ha... you are completely racist and discriminatory against everyone who is different than you, the typical criteria is religion... so much so that even catholics feel uncomfortable to practice in greece, forgetting about the 400 jews left after you sent them all to their deaths in WWII.

[konig82]

Probably you mix greeks with germans, liberal people with fasists, and abroad is not Salonica. Is Denmark, Poland, Germany, France. If we were discriminating, albanian fasist, nobody of your albanians woul be in Greece. Ok?

[glagouros]

its a poor duty I have to put you in place, but perhaps you should call the Italians and Austrians to your resque, since no albanian state would exist if it hadnt been for them. As with your written tradition that started only in the 15 cent. AD (!!!), you werent interested in having a nation in the first place. As for Pelasgians or Illyrians decide what you are, besides mountainiring wagabonds as you are described in medieval accounts. Raids and homelessness has been the history of Albanians.

[balkancoolhead]

don't forget our favorite American President Woodrow Wilson who was the true savior of Albania. but hats off to Italy and Austria as well. we have good friends. luckily, we kicked out the russians long ago.

[glagouros]

The Greeks develop a national conscience already in the 12 cent AD!the Albanians only in late 19th cent. The Albanians to come to Greece came to realise themselves as Greeks and remained and prospered as such. For them until today no link to anything albanic is commendable. Its not about genes but about conscience and historic becoming and those arvanites was as such Greeks and nothing else.Your claim on Papas is ridiculous.

[balkancoolhead]

first of all, nationalism is nothing to celebrate patrioti, it inspired both world wars and much killing.

as for "greek" national consciousness, you are again making bizarre and distorted references to events you obviously do not possess the necessary education to parse.

let me assist you though... the albanian people derive from the illyrians and acquired their name from the most prominent of the illyrian tribes, the albanoi (or arbanoi).

(continues)

[balkancoolhead]

a city called "Albanopolis" is referred to in several maps created by Ptolemy, the first one around 132 AD, and the location is more or less near Kruje in Albania (the birthplace of Skenderbeg, ironically).

albanian traditions, primarily an Oral Cutlure, are to be found among some of your tribes especially the arvanites who carried them there as well as among Slavicized illyrians today found among the Serbs, Montenegrans, and Macedeonians, as well as in Southern Italy, in Calabria, Puglia, etc.

[balkancoolhead]

unlike the barbarian modern "greeks" and the fanatical slavs, the italians have always embraced us, and for that reason the Arberesh of italy have been recognized as an albanian minority for centuries and they have maintained their language, much as the arvanites, for over 800 years. the difference is, the italians embraced us, and after a decade of hard times after communism, they have embraced us again...

[balkancoolhead]

your culture, on the other hand, is so petrified of us, that you refuse to recognize 3 million or so "greeks" of arvanitik origin, and you have discriminated against them for centuries. (search "Helsinki Monitor Arvanites" to learn more about who you really are, from an objective source.)

meanwhile, our language exists as a unique language, even though we have greek and latin neighbors (and more recently, slavs, but they have had less effect)...

the only explanation is a pre-hellenic origin.

[glagouros]

this is not about nationalism but about national complex inferiority!Actually albanian language has nothing to do with Illyrian (actually that survives in italian Messapian)' perhaps the origin from Pelasgians is more probable!Yet Pelasgians and Illyrians are not the same people!Your people have some serious retrospection to do.

As for my education it was aquired abroad, in the UK on history and archaeology!

[balkancoolhead]

well, your primary education was obviously in a tiny fish-bowl peasant gymnasium in greece. so even after going to an international institution in the UK, you did not acquire a worldly sense of life, but instead, just reinforced your little greek ego.

the fact is, several academic institutions in the u.s. and europe, are performing the most in-depth studies of the albanian language ever. and the results are already quite fascinating... i suggest you research University of Vienna studies first.

[battenwood]

What a bizarre thing to say! This woman promoted Greek culture and music in every possible way throughout her life. She was born in Corinth. Where on earth did you get your information about her being Albanian?

[balkancoolhead]

she is arvanitasa, and when she visited albania, she said as much. this does not exclude her being supportive of ancient hellenic culture. on the contrary, it makes perfect sense.

why are your people so incredibly anti-albanian? is all of this just because of the turks? didn't anyone ever teach you about the albanian language explanations for the names of the oldest greek cities as well as the names of the gods of pelasgian mythology?

we have to learn to live together. my goodness.

[battenwood]

I am not Greek. I live near a town on the Florida Gulf coast called Tarpon Springs which is populated heavily by Greek immigrants in the sponge industry and their descendents. I don't have a "dog in this fight," as we say. I suppose that I have heard the Greek side of things since I am close to them, and don't know any Albanians. I do, however, have an open mind about things. My first wife was a dead ringer for Irene Pappas, which is one reason I have always kept up with her.

[balkancoolhead]

that's cool. pardon me for throwing baklava at you ;-)

we albanians are not anti-greek, we have so much in common with them and in fact we have a long history with them that goes back thousands of years, but we are fighting an epic battle to return our language and our history to its rightful place, as perhaps the original inhabitants, the indigenous population of europe.

---

are you worried about the hurricanes? it looks like they could both become serious. good luck.

[battenwood]

I stay pretty worried every summmer. It looks right now that Gustav will miss Florida and go to Louisiana, and they don't need any more storms. Hanna may be coming this way. We just got finished with a big drenching from Fay. Everybody around here has Greek friends, so we just hear the Greek viewpoint.

[ferioik]

popo aparadekta ta aglika den teriazoun

[xdarkwingsofdesire6]

You really should add more of this film. It's amazing! Irene Papas is the only one who is able to add any passion/flare to her role.

[TekoaG]

Is there anyway you can get the whole scene of Irene Papas when she is in the "makeshift jail" and the guards bring her a basin of water to drink and she actually uses it to bathe and the women outside go crazy and try to kill her???

[gigop]

Omg..Irene Papas is so good in this movie..she's absolutely amazing as Helen..

[muktid]

Helen wants to save her life, she blames anyone.