Joseph Joachim - Brahms' Hungarian Dance No.2 (1903) (RARE!)

[beeteep60]

does anyone know if any of Joachim's recordings were put to cd yet?

[andiejanefisher]

Who was accompanying him? just out of interest..

[andiejanefisher]

Shame on the loner who "disliked" this

[1ke81he]

I 'm born in1998,but I don't think it's old

[BritishBroom]

Nowadays kids consider anything pre-1990 to be 'old'.

[Sviolinist]

I think it's amusing that they wrote "historical record" on the record. This would be like issuing an early CD of the Red Hot Chili Peppers and writing "historical record" on it. I mean, after all, this record wasn't pressed that long after the original recording had been made! It makes me laugh. Still, I can see why they would have done it. This was the greatest violinist, and this was his preservation.

[audiocell]

@Sviolinist The record could not have been pressed until 1927, since that was when Victor Talking Machine Company of Japan was founded. That was 20 years after Joachim's death.  Not quite the same as your RHCP analogy.

[MukudaiYoshiyuki]

Did you transfer from original 78rpm and make audio restoration by yourself?

This recording has been transfered on to both LP and CD on OPAL label (I have both of them.) :

OPAL CD 9851;

1903 complete Joseph Joahim recordings

(MAT 217y; G&T 047905)

Meanwhile your transfer sounds far more gorgeous coming with less surface noise

without losing its marvelous tone quality. I appreciate your effort. Thank you so much.

[acortot]

today this kind of playing would be considered 'shmaltzy'

...but this is something that normal people might actually ENJOY listening to in a live performance.. yeaaaah!

[paulostroff99]

Lovely as well as interesting playing! Bravo! TY.

[GBV1961]

incredibile!!!!!

[ocramizz]

Thanks for this moment of the musical history! If only we think this man in his life worked "tête a tête" not only with Brahms, but also with Mendelssohn, Liszt, Clara Schumann, Wieniawski... And always with very intense relationships. So we're really hearing a performance that includes a piece of musical history!

[Mnacuspia004]

well, i allways get surprised when i watch recordings by Joseph Joachim, he had an authentic hungarian soul..

[Organistabrasileiro]

I have some 78 rpm rarities at my home in Brasília: I got most of them at second-hand record shops mostly in São Paulo. Perhaps the oldest I have is one with Caruso singing Celeste Aida (it dates from 03-17-1907): I don't worry about the noises, but enjoy recording at its best.

You got a truly appreciable recording.

[flugelmaniac]

A total jewel of vintage artistry and an

important music lesson to the world of today.

[GerdLinden]

Information about his life as an artist and CDs: (in german) fuer-die-ohren . at / Joseph-Joachim-CD . s h t m l

[GerdLinden]

A great musician

[andiejanefisher]

Oh I love Joachim!!!

It's amazing how much the quality of recording improved in 4 years. (Just heard the 1889 wax cylinder of Brahms)

Thanks for posting this gem.

[AngelicaTross]

That will be 14 years.

[AulicExclusiva]

Even at 77 in a primitive 1904 recording one can still hear the tremendous power and rhythmic vitality of the fabulous Joachim, whose chords roar magnificently, giving unequivocal proof of why the Hungarian gypsy finale of the Brahms violin concerto is written the way it is. WHO has ever played that concerto the way he must have??

[rpdbluevideo]

I have a question.. on the white Victor label,why does is say " historical record" if it's Brahms was still alive in 1903?

thnx

ryan d

[AulicExclusiva]

This record was a Victor re-isue from the 1940s.

Brahms died in 1897. His friend Joachim, who plays here, died in 1907.

[90elias90]

WOW.....AMAZING!!!!!

[patriciaoday]

Bet he never imagined that his record would be heard over 100 years later on something called the internet. ;)

[ryanmozart]

Proves the value in the "old-school" idea of NOT vibrating the hell out of every single note, and instead focusing on style through variation in tone color, bow speed, different slides, etc.

[davidj1011]

Forget what those "period performance" nuts try to make you believe. Every single note should def. be vibrated (Joachim does that, even though it's not always obvious for outsiders to tell from those old recordings. Remember vibrato ain't an easy skill to get and at that time the technical level wasn't the same as now). The problem is that people are stiff as hell and forget vibrato should be subtle etc and above all supple. They play the violin as if they were struck by electrical discharges.

[angtro]

Using vibrato is an effect and not using it is also an effect. Sticking to one one these all the time is mannerism. The use of vibrato has to be adjusted to the meaning of the music, the meaning of the phrases. It all has to do with communication of feelings. A vibrated note gives you a different feeling from a non-vibrated. Of course, there is a whole spectrum between these extremes.

[davidj1011]

A non-vibrated note is not alive. So yes all notes have to be vibrated as Geminiani stated and this was in the early 18th century (and he'd studied with masters of the baroque music, Corelli, Scarlatti). Now there's ways of vibrating with almost no movement. Stern for instance, sometimes you'd swear his hand isn't moving while you can hear (and feel) the note's living. But yeah, A-S Mutter and all the China guys of today can't develop that, they're too focused on scales and double stops

[angtro]

Let me first ask. Do you consider this performance to be dead, not alive?

[davidj1011]

it's definitely alive though you can feel he's fairly old. That's what I said in the first message, he uses little vibrato but definitely vibrates. And again you can't know what the famous Joachim was like. Around this time, he had an argument with Bülow to whom he said : "we all know who you are" and Bülow replied "And we all know who you WERE". Keep that in mind

[angtro]

When I listen to this recording, I get the feeling that he really understands the music, he understands the meaning of the phrases, and plays accordingly. He is very alive and I get the feeling that he is really expressing something, whereas most modern players play as they were tought in a very standardized manner. The small differences between those interpretations, they call "feeling", but they never try to understand the emotional content of the music.

[meltzerboy]

I agree and think the difference is between focusing only on the mechanics of technique and focusing on the emotional content of the piece and using technique to elicit the content.

[angtro]

Also I find most modern players very shrill, one have to learn to listen to their played; you can't do it right away. I believe this shrillnes comes from the exaggerated vibratoing. People who are not accustomed to classical music often find it difficult to listen to music with solo violin or solo soprano. Both these use very much vibrato nowadays.

[VietFiddle]

"A non-vibrated note is not alive."

This statement is absolutely wrong

from an one-sided person.

Life is two-sided: vibrated and non-vibrated.

[davidj1011]

yes VietFiddle, life is two-sided : good and bad, right and wrong. No vibrato is basically wrong and bad.

[GODSFISTS]

these people do not know what they are talking about. there is a difference between vibrato and vibration.

[FAHayek89]

An interesting comment.  I have heard Stern comment several times about the need for a wide range of vibratos appropiate to the music played and have heard him claim that many violinists do not understand or cannot master this.

[davidj1011]

yes I also think that's true. Most violonists use too much vibrato. I don't mean they should use it on fewer notes but they should use less vibrato (amplitude, etc). As Stern said "when you hear it, it's too much". Btw if you know Geminiani, take a look at his treaty "the art of playing on the violin" where he states it should be used "as often as possible". Nowadays vibrato is unfortunately rarely related to the musical intention a passage conveys. It's something that's added to the notes

[meltzerboy]

The same is probably true for singing, in which baroque music and Mozart generally require less vibrato than Verdi or Puccini. I would imagine, however, that it is especially difficult for a singer to modulate the vibrato.

[seasaid]

Just stunning. Thank you for providing this!

[Chopiano]

Fascinating! I've been wondering what this rare but famous recording would sound like. Maybe the best link available to mid-1800's interpretation practice. Quote:

"After hearing this astounding performance, no classical artist should ever feel embarrassed to play the romantic repertoire with the same unfettered passion as a hard rocker." Peter Gutmann

Read his article "In search of the most important recording ever made" (Google the phrase and you'll find it)

[siegy08]

Amazing, thanks a lot !

[Deutschlieber]

What a treat! A 106-year-old recording...the scratchiness is actually part of the experience.

[merrihew]

It was reissued on LP by EMI in 1988, but again, the sound quality on your record is dramatically superior.