William Boyce - Overture to Peleus and Thetis

[grantco1313]

Hi CrazyCello, I think the biggest thing with Greene to keep in perspective is that he was a whole generation older than Boyce so much of what his students did originated from Greene's adaption of the Italian style. And though his music is probably less academic that Boyce I don't think feeble would be the word to use. He often has greater melodic content. I also question where you would have heard or much Greene to know his music is feeble and counterpoint weak?

[TheCrazyCello]

@grantco1313 I've played a fair bit of Greene - mostly keyboard works and anthems. I feel his counterpoint is not very assured at all. Lots of awkward 2nd inversion chords and uneven phrasing wrt dissonance. It just doesn't sit very naturally. Some of the anthems are very pleasant, but again many are plagued by similar problems, awkward turns of harmony etc. His music just doesn't have the robustness of say (bringing it back to this recording) Boyce. In my opinion of course!

[grantco1313]

@TheCrazyCello Yeah, I guess like I said "feeble" just probably wouldn't be the word I'd use :-) Unfortunately almost none of Greene's bigger works have been recorded yet. For me there's a beauty in awkward, uneven phrasing and dissonance. So along the same lines though I certainly admire Purcell I'm more interested to hear works by Locke and Blow :-)

[Timrath]

I think it sounds more like a mix between Händel and Rameau. But we always think "this sounds like [something else]" when we are confronted with something for the first time. At first we only perceive the superficial, but in fact, Boyce does not sound like anyone except Boyce. Does Mozart sound like Haydn? Only if you don't know Mozart. Any similarities to other composers are due to the fact that they lived in the same era and adhered to the same aesthetic principles.

[violatione]

@Timrath You're only half right. Some composers do have their own distinctive flavor. Bach, Corelli, Vivaldi, D. Scarlatti can be readily identified within a few measures of listening. Boyce is not that distinctive.

[irishmaestro]

@violatione Bach? Boyce wouldn't have known Bach's music (certainly not when this piece was written), as Bach's music was entirely unknown in England during his lifetime. I hear the influence of Albinoni and Vivaldi (as well as Handel), but Boyce is no rip-off merchant - no composer can truthfully say that they're not influenced by the music of other composers. He has his original touches too, including some interesting phrase-structures. Just saying. ^__^

[nabetz]

@violatione Au contraire. Having played and listened to a great deal of Boyce (as well as Bach, Corelli, Vivaldi, D. Scarlatti, and others), it's become pretty transparent to me that Boyce, as well as pretty much every other composer capable of a modicum of original thought, has his own sound. Once you know what someone does in their music, it's really hard to mistake them for anyone else. Same goes with performers, btw.

[TheCrazyCello]

@nabetz I have to agree. Boyce's sound is quite distinctly English as well. Obviously he was influenced by Handel. In London at that time, you were either inspired by Handel or you rebelled, there was no real middle ground. But Boyce retains his individuality and is also very strongly influenced by Purcell. You can hear a french flavour in the almost dance-like quality of his instrumental writing. But the rhythmic robustness and almost stodginess of the harmonic writing are idiomatically English

[TheCrazyCello]

@TheCrazyCello Boyce's original voice is heard in the subtleties he lays on top of this foundation, which are more evident in his exception ability at setting words and painting musical pictures, so this is generally more evident in his vocal works, A keen sense of drama still pervades the instrumental overtures to those works, such as this. I feel that a Boyce overture is often more representative of what's to follow, in mood and character, than those by some other composers.

[grantco1313]

@TheCrazyCello Of course one can't really discount the influence of Boyce's teacher Maurice Greene...

[grantco1313]

@violatione I think a lot of that has to do with where in the baroque time line a composer is. Boyce and his contemporaries like Geminiani, Avison etc. were the last vestiges of the baroque style before the onslaught of classical so their music does have a bit of an influence upon and influence sound. But as more "lesser known" composers get recorded we find that the GREAT composers weren't quite as unique as we first thought. Purcell is great but less unique when Blow and Locke are heard..

[NaturalBornHedonist]

Sounds like teleman !!!

[TheCrazyCello]

Er.. in what way?