I think I should point out that some of his fans are also subscribing with these sock accounts too. I think I recall a similar user Mainestategop had a few of these and not only subed himself and his friends but also channels like howtheworldworks stevencrowder reasontv obaidkarki ETC.
You list a ton of information and show how it could indicate "sock" accounts, but show how the claims could be possibly rebutted. You admit that it is just a matter of "he said she said".
Then you come up with new information. You say that Lee contacted a third party regarding sock accounts. At least 2 problems.
If you knew that, why did you waste the first 6 minutes of the video.
Dang man, this is some pretty good investigation. I don't think many people would have thought to do this, but good thing that you did. It could be very helpful with investigating those soc accounts. Kudos to you good sir!
After answering a point from HTWWW with “So Harvard was right the inability to pay health cost contributed to their bankruptcies. The fact when anybody comes out with research (even top quality institutions like Harvard) that blows a hole in your childlike views you react like any 4th rate amateur propagandist you ether belittle or choose ignore those facts.” Instead of a ignore or reply he choose to block what a coward the man is.
@Gameplayer77 its an account that is created by someone maybe howtheworldworks and then he will use it himself to favorite subscribe and rate his videos highly but third parties already have hundreds of these accounts and when somebody pays or promotes the third party the third party uses all of these accounts to sub and highly rate the person hope that answered your question
There is one concern I have on identifying the accounts. As someone has mentioned, when signing up for an account, if the name I chose is taken it will offer me alternatives usually with numbers at the end.
Then there is the odds that someone finds a real account, and starts altering the names slightly to create new accounts. How do you seperate the original owner from the sock owner?
Also, I am sure there's a way to generate random names.
When signing up for some sites, if the name I wish to use is unavailable there is often offered variations on that name. Usually these variations are this same name with some #s on the end of the name.
Research companies that advertise social web marketing. See prices and availability. If it is cheap, find out which companies supply Youtube sock accounts. See if you can get the same account series to subscribe to your channel.
Otherwise, it could be a Republican/corporate conspiracy to astroturf the social web. In that case, they would not sell their services.
Think about it. If you can't hire the company he hired, then it could be a private interest.
This is politics my dear boy. Politicians aren't born, they don't just rise, they are created. And without a free market that wouldn't be possible. So there always will be Capitalism, without it there's no politics. God bless.
Here are a few things I would like to let you know about Mr. Doren. He was a very popular political blogger since he was in college. He presently is employed by CEI for their Bureaucrash project. CEI is funded by *very well known corporations, foundations, and individuals.
Such as Coca-Cola, CSX Corporation, & Bradley Foundation.
Something I have noticed is that there are not very many people, if anyone, sticking up for Lee Doren. His unwillingness to not reveal sub list, an obsessive desire to get subs, a very thin skin to block and delete thoughtful criticism. Just not something even fans condone.
Don't see Lee Doren making money on youtube, but you've seen him on whacko conservative news shows with little talent. Lee Doren has 3-5 thousand legitimate subscribers, my guess.
1) I wasn't insulting Kinsman's intelligence, I was insulting his logic in this video.
2) The "genius" was just for fun, to see how many more HTWW witch hunters would take the bait and call me Lee again.
3) Pointing out an overlooked fact is not a straw man argument. On a site with this many users, finding similar names is to be expected. It shouldn't be considered suspicious.
That wasn't the extent of KT's argument. The names themselves aren't strong evidence as any one nam may be legit. It's the pattern that matters. Had you watched the video you would have known this.
Yes it shouldn't be suspicious at all! Even if they show signs of a similar pattern, one from each series of patterns subscribes to the same person, and all accounts being dead for months.
Yes, indeed, this is not suspicious at all. In fact it would be a fallacy to even pursue such vague notions further because similar names is to be expected.
The key phrase in your post is this: "one from each series... subscribes". The rest is pure paranoid speculation.
A prime example:
Soc912, supposed sock, joined 4 yrs ago. Has subscribed to 2 channels -- his buddy and one with 6 subs. Great investment by the sock co. Naturally some fool left a comment on his channel accusing him of being a sock acct.
To sum up, there are ZERO proven socks, very few that are even suspicious and none that appear to be padding subscriber totals effectively.
Hi, jendan. You made several points here, including some over on Thunderf00t's video about the sock investigation, so I'm picking this one arbitrarily to start responding.
"Accts coming alive...isn't suspicious, it's the owners having fun exposing you people on your idiocy."
In the video, I pointed out that them coming alive was an answer to an argument that the socks could be set up by others trying to frame HTWW.
You refer to the people poking at other's socks as "witchhunters". But you also say that the owners of suspected socks are "just having fun".
But you ignore the possibility that anyone poking at potential socks are just lovers of Youtube Drama, and are trolling around.
I think it's biased to assume that anyone causing trouble on behalf of HTWW are just innocents having fun, and that anyone causing trouble while investigating is both sincere and aggressive.
You say that the burden of the proof is on the accuser. This is true; but true in a court case.
Prior to a court case is investigation, during which conjecture is allowed, and circumstantial evidence is allowed to exist until something happens to either DQ them or tie them together.
I think that anyone talking about, or requiring, solid proof at this early stage is just trying to get it all over with at an early stage.
That said, if you want to use such serious metaphors as the courts; I've noticed that when people spread around the 'genius' meme, and trying to tease out false HTWW-spotting, they're essentially saying that "Whether or not HTWW's sock accounts are true, we'll try to make it seem as though it isn't true, by obfuscating any potential leads."
Have fun with that, but understand - out in the real world, screwing with real investigations like that can get you in trouble fast.
I suppose anyone doing that for HTWW's sake is doing it out of loyalty to the guy; but otherwise, it's not exactly a praiseworthy thing to do.
Not to mention, it gives the other side a potential 'out' even if the investigation does fall flat; "Did the investigation fail because there was no evidence, or because of HTWW's supporters obscuring any potential leads?"
You know what? Your comments about the number of accounts out there in Youtube is a fair criticism.
The theories I put out might, in the end, not be true - in fact, Thunderf00t might have proven it wrong with his observation of a potential 0-watched sock.
But jendan, you seem to be in a stew of anger about all this; just kick back and watch quietly, and comment intelligently. It's better for *both* sides of this, if you do.
And I don't think the video's a nominee for year's most stupid.
KT- I'm not even a fan of HTWW. I just don't like seeing people attacked over flimsy suspicions. What evidence have I obscured?
It's not just HTWW and his subs being harassed, now it's people whose acct names just sound similar, like soc912.
I don't watch many vids, but I've seen sock acct accusations thrown around on completely random vids. That may be good for "youtube drama", but it sure looks like a witch hunt to me.
You could write a program to easily scan all these so its not a manual process. If I was this third party I see that Name + number is easy to do however another method would be to just scan other social networks like ebay, facebook, myspace, etc. and steal user names and create them here or some version. Then if someone searches they find the name isnt as random and exists elsewhere online making it seem like a real person is behind it.
I watched CHUCKLZLORD's video the day he posted -- it was simple and kinda sweet, so I went to his channel. In the comments section there was a comment left by soc991 in appreciation of posting the video- the avatar was a picture of Doren. I clicked to go to this channel- account closed. Curiouser and curiouser.
hellome133, don't even bother. The sock account BS has already been discovered.
It's a pattern, and it's been discovered. Incidentally channels which have not been alive for months suddently came alive 2 weeks ago, yep, coincidence.
i am hellome133, there is a hellome134, 131, 129, 126. wow i must be fake, because people put numbers on the end of their names just because they are mass created sock accounts! maybe there is a thunderf01t!
Another suspicious account combination is dragonkid12345 (change the numbers; they are easiest to find if you only try single, double and triplet numbers). Now I'm not saying that the one user from this "series", dragonkid72001, I know is subbed to HTWW is necessarily a sock (the channel does look legit), but generally the series looks very suspicious. Still, For some reason dragonkid72001 saw it necessary to remove his subscription of HTWW, but "forgot" to delete the comment by HTWW on his ch.
Very good video -- despite the audio quality -- you bring some pretty heavy evidence to the table. Your theory about Lee buying these accounts from a sock farm is a good one, and one that fits the evidence perfectly, and it almost fully implicates howtheworldwork in using these accounts (unless it one of the other accounts the sock puppets subscribed but that still is still unlikely because only two of the five weren't his.)
Good method for analysis; I think you have shown that it is possible to figure out to a reasonable degree what accounts are Soc accounts; someone out there should do a quantitative analysis of all of these suspected and related accounts and figure out what other methods they use to operate.
Why dont you tube delete unused accounts? I mean after its not used for 6 months the account should be cleared(the ones with nothing uploaded) and the user name put back up for taking.......Just an idea
i love the rational scientific method applied to investigate these alleged sock accounts, it really is a thing of beauty, it makes perfect sense once the formula and patterns are revealed
Let us be frank. There are huge piles of evidence which YouTube could use to, at the very least, revoke HTWW's "partner" status, if not have him arrested outright. The last thing you should be doing is drawing attention to yourself. You have a guaranteed money-making scheme, and your ego is doing nothing but threatening to get it all taken away. So do yourself a favor and SHUT THE HELL UP, YOU THUNDERING MORON !
I forgot he was actually a partner. So he might actually be defrauding YouTube out of money really? Couldn't this result in legal action against him? I really hope you're right. It certainly looks suspicious.
This kind of "evidence", would get anyone laughed out of just about any court in the world, as it is only anecdotal at best, and offers no real proof of anything.
What I find really interesting, are the lengths people who hate Lee, or his semi-libertarian viewpoint, will go to to discredit him or those viewpoints.
But I guess that's what the internet is all about, demonizing people and their viewpoints, that don't agree with your own, and justifying it any way you can.
Demonizing is a specialty of Mr. Lee Doran. He likes to throw around VERY serious accusations, based on stretched or distorted information (lots of examples, the most blatant ones admitted even by himself - like his James Hansen attack).
I tend to distrust ANYONE who works for, or under the auspices of government, including Hansen, whose data collection techniques and record keeping, helped cause the severely flawed computer model of the so called "global warming crisis". Those types of people MUST be demonized in my opinion, as they are significantly more dangerous to freedom, than the people who bring their mistakes to light.
On the other hand, I also tend to distrust corporate shills of any stripe, as they too have an agenda
Excellent investigation Kinsman. I like the evidence for the socks being part of a service giving them to users who ask for it, but I still have doubts about whether Lee is responsible for this.
I mentioned this to cristoballs as well. Even if they are sock accounts there is no proof that HTWW made them personally. For instance, if you like a music video, then you would constantly play that over and over again to boost its ratings. It inflates it without The Jonas Brothers or whoever ever knowing about it.
The accounts you showed are most likely sock accounts and you did a good job in your video, but I still have a problem that people are still jumping to how it must be HTWW's doing.
You made a big deal out of soc912 (created in 10/05 and has almost 9000 videos watched) having only 2 subscriptions. One of the accts subscribed to was closed and the other (dickeyko) has only 6 subscribers. Are you suggesting someone with only 6 subscribers used a third party service?
If most of these supposed sock accts, especially the older ones with hundreds or thousands of videos watched, have few or no subscriptions, how could this be profitable for a third party service?
EXACTLY MY POINT. He refers to his metric of limited account use as the standard for which we should assume an account is a soc. Clearly this definition of minimal is very, very liberal. A factor that should be taken into account when we discuss accuracy of his assessment and his possible motive for producing this video.
Given that youtube is in the top five internet sites globally, I would be surprised not see numerical sequences after common user names like titan or redbeard. I would only find it suspicious if the accounts in the same series were created around the same time, and they were not in the examples given.
Not to say that these are indeed sock accounts, but if one curious enough takes the time to use the same methodology used by the author of the video...
A great deal of these commentators seem to have the same kind of doppelgangers shown in the video. I went down just the first few on the list, and I found numerical variation sock accounts for 99bit, kmonster420, upsilon054.
An interesting theory, but I don't think it has quite enough evidence to stand on. For this to be more than just speculation you'd need to find examples of the socks lining up in a way similar to how they do with Lee's account. Like examples of the "Mooja" series and the "iheart" series subscribed to the same subscribers in a similar fashion. If you could find that this theory would go from possible to probable.
As mentioned in this video, it's the accumulation of data that does it, not one thing on it's own. A bunch of generic names differentiated by number with almost no activity, or only one channel view or subscription is suspicious. People who only see one video don't register as users.
Enough to convict? No, of course not. This is a hell of a lot of smoke though and as members of the community we need to ask YouTube to see if there's fire.
Case in point, my own account comes in a vast series of names. As of just recently, within the last 10 months, I've subbed to the vast majority of my existing subscriptions. By your own rational I would have been a sock despite my thousands of videos watched.
I think he took that into account. Your account has a lot of content, though. The argument here is taking EVERYTHING into consideration, including the blankness of the account, and the fact that a lot from its series are also blank, and very similar in how their contents are managed. But who cares.
I have to disagree. He cites mooja12 as a sock while he or she has over 1,800 views. Obviously his metric for gauging minimal use is rather liberal. Furthermore he goes on to state the rebutall from accused socks is evidence of their guilt. I couldn't, in good conscience, with every effort of preserving Ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, make such a circular claim.
HEY! No need for that kind of language, buddy. (My Latin's a bit rusty)
I agree. There's still far too much doubt in my mind to jump to any certain conclusion, but the evidence is enough to raise suspicions. It's worth looking into. Would you be so surprised to find a third party that creates multiple accounts in order to subscribe over and over to his/her/their clients? YouTube's a business, and this would basically be free partner money. All I'm saying is it's worth looking into.
My point is that it's not evidence. the lack of activity on other accounts with some value following it, (the author of this piece was willing to include lettering changes too which I think is dishonest) doesn't make them socs. There are likely tens of thousands of accounts forgotten or replaced daily. From the value correlation he erects this notion of SoC farming which he provides no evidence for anywhere in his piece which is meant to explain how HTWW could have done this.
Rofl I believe I mentioned in my own text that my name also has variants. But it was indeed clever of you to notice. With over 150 subs and 22,000+ videos watched I'm with out a doubt a soc. I guess that relieves how sound the author's thesis is.
The argument being made here is teaming with fallacies. It's rather axiomatic that internet screen names will follow successions and registered, unused accounts are not evidence that clearly active names in a series are socks. Furthermore it's a little more than circular reasoning to ask for proof of a negative, that these are not sock accounts, and then suggest the accounts in contention's rebuttal is proof positive of the charade.
Some good points. He could be using some, but they don't comprise the majority of his fan base.
But I dont think the number of subs he has have anything to do with his messages and opinions. he's not trying to make himself seem "more right" by having more subscribers.
What this video doesn't explain is how I am supposed to tell if *I* am a sock account. How would I know? I can't investigate myself and I can't make another account to investigate this one; because that would be a sock account.
I like socks, so I wish we didn't use that term. If they were 'tentacle accounts' that would be more fitting of it.
BTW, your video doesn't prove that HTWW does not use sock puppets, only that you're not one. Type your name in with a different number and keep trying. After just four attempts, I got a dormant one: follower99. It being dormant suggests it has yet to be sold in a package by the vlog-promotion site that made it.
It isn't the coincidences, but the pattern that damns Lee Doren.
I haven't though that a third party could be behind the accounts. Is it possible that this third party could also be behind the vote bot attacks?
Htww calls people drones, yet there is evidence that he is using drones himself. He says he supports free speech, yet he censors users who have something to say about him. Things aren't looking too good for Lee right now :)
I once saw a company that would just add thousands of views to a video for partners, they demanded 1.5$ for every 1000 views per video if i remember correctly you get 2.5$ for every 1000 views your videos get as a partner...
What is a sock account exactly? I've just never heard that term till this video.
Phavonic 4 days ago
This is a sock account
Mikuruification 3 months ago
Moopa12 likes chihuahuas,
MrSlatwob 5 months ago
24 people are HTWW-sockpuppets
sonykroket 8 months ago
Hey! is there any way we can track some of these acoounts and their IP adress to find out if its the same computer?
turnofffox 9 months ago
Definitely suspicious.
I think I should point out that some of his fans are also subscribing with these sock accounts too. I think I recall a similar user Mainestategop had a few of these and not only subed himself and his friends but also channels like howtheworldworks stevencrowder reasontv obaidkarki ETC.
Yup. Its all fluff. HTWW is proping himself up.
turnofffox 9 months ago
Doren banned me from his account. He is against free speech.
DerrenBrown100 11 months ago
@DerrenBrown100 Your not the only one,
and is the 4th time just today i am reading someone was banned from his channel
I myself was banned from his channel several years ago,
At the time I was genuinely questioning or critiquing and rather engaging in a debate with him,
he didnt wanna have any of it so he blocked me and i unsubbed from his channel
izaccy 10 months ago
htww is a moronic douchebag
wwickeddogg 1 year ago
I don't get it.
You list a ton of information and show how it could indicate "sock" accounts, but show how the claims could be possibly rebutted. You admit that it is just a matter of "he said she said".
Then you come up with new information. You say that Lee contacted a third party regarding sock accounts. At least 2 problems.
If you knew that, why did you waste the first 6 minutes of the video.
Also, why did you not provide evidence for that?
Seems to me you didn't "prove" anything...
iNs1d3tRiP 1 year ago
all it would take would be to make the subscribers visible, but strangely that isn't gonna happen
frunchzz 1 year ago
Always knew that little twerp was a scumbag. Thanks for confirming my suspicions.
disrxt 1 year ago
Nice work! The best antiseptic is sunlight.
Lee said he wants to make money from youtube. I would think that buying sock accounts might be a good investment to the final end of making money.
bdhcarbon 1 year ago
Dang man, this is some pretty good investigation. I don't think many people would have thought to do this, but good thing that you did. It could be very helpful with investigating those soc accounts. Kudos to you good sir!
epsilon8998 1 year ago
After answering a point from HTWWW with “So Harvard was right the inability to pay health cost contributed to their bankruptcies. The fact when anybody comes out with research (even top quality institutions like Harvard) that blows a hole in your childlike views you react like any 4th rate amateur propagandist you ether belittle or choose ignore those facts.” Instead of a ignore or reply he choose to block what a coward the man is.
davijeph 1 year ago
dragon521 is also a sock acount in a series of dragon socks.
zakkfilms 1 year ago
"moopa12 likes chihuahas" LOL
zakkfilms 1 year ago
Can someone tell me please what a sock account is ?Is that like more then one account ?
Gameplayer77 1 year ago
@Gameplayer77 its an account that is created by someone maybe howtheworldworks and then he will use it himself to favorite subscribe and rate his videos highly but third parties already have hundreds of these accounts and when somebody pays or promotes the third party the third party uses all of these accounts to sub and highly rate the person hope that answered your question
Mad17Cat 1 year ago
lurkers of youtube unite. under a dark area on youtube
Shydrow 2 years ago
The guy is essentially dishonest. He has made it clear that he wants to get rich through his youtube videos. And he does not worry about ethics.
dangerouslytalented 2 years ago 2
awesome work.
shinenjk 2 years ago 2
There is one concern I have on identifying the accounts. As someone has mentioned, when signing up for an account, if the name I chose is taken it will offer me alternatives usually with numbers at the end.
Then there is the odds that someone finds a real account, and starts altering the names slightly to create new accounts. How do you seperate the original owner from the sock owner?
Also, I am sure there's a way to generate random names.
Still do appreciate the video, however.
Aakanaar 2 years ago
When signing up for some sites, if the name I wish to use is unavailable there is often offered variations on that name. Usually these variations are this same name with some #s on the end of the name.
Maxdwolf 2 years ago
Research companies that advertise social web marketing. See prices and availability. If it is cheap, find out which companies supply Youtube sock accounts. See if you can get the same account series to subscribe to your channel.
Otherwise, it could be a Republican/corporate conspiracy to astroturf the social web. In that case, they would not sell their services.
Think about it. If you can't hire the company he hired, then it could be a private interest.
biantai888 2 years ago
brava! 5 stars for some great detective work♥
0Gimmick 2 years ago 2
you are part of a series..1Gimmick, 2Gimmick! lol lol jkjk!
k47killa 2 years ago
O NOOoOoOOoOooesss! xD
0Gimmick 2 years ago
wow this video is well thought out and presented!
Jtking3000 2 years ago 4
This is politics my dear boy. Politicians aren't born, they don't just rise, they are created. And without a free market that wouldn't be possible. So there always will be Capitalism, without it there's no politics. God bless.
freeamerika00 2 years ago
KinsmanThoughts:
Here are a few things I would like to let you know about Mr. Doren. He was a very popular political blogger since he was in college. He presently is employed by CEI for their Bureaucrash project. CEI is funded by *very well known corporations, foundations, and individuals.
Such as Coca-Cola, CSX Corporation, & Bradley Foundation.
freeamerika00 2 years ago
thanks for deeply inspired blab there, Mr. Doren.
1n354a 2 years ago
Something I have noticed is that there are not very many people, if anyone, sticking up for Lee Doren. His unwillingness to not reveal sub list, an obsessive desire to get subs, a very thin skin to block and delete thoughtful criticism. Just not something even fans condone.
Don't see Lee Doren making money on youtube, but you've seen him on whacko conservative news shows with little talent. Lee Doren has 3-5 thousand legitimate subscribers, my guess.
robertmike57 2 years ago 11
The reincarnation of Sherlock Holmes! .. Sort of.
Deflectioneer 2 years ago 3
Hahahaha awesome detective work!
Shalek 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Tinman- I wish there were an award for the stupidest vid of the yr, because this one would be my nominee.
Iheartscience isn't a sock acct name, it's a bumper sticker genius, like iheartmykids, iheartmychihuahua, etc.
Youtube has hundreds of millions of accts, most of which are dormant. Finding a few that are similar proves absolutely nothing.
Accts coming alive and taunting people for thinking they are socks isn't suspicious, it's the owners having fun exposing you people on your idiocy.
jendan100 2 years ago
>> I wish there were an award
1) Issue personal insult.
>> it's a bumper sticker genius
2) Issue sarcastic remark including the appellation, "genius".
>> Youtube has hundreds of millions of accts
3) Invent a straw man version of the argument to attack in place of the real thing.
Curious.
jendan100, I must say if you're not Lee Doran himself you do an awfully good impersonation.
coasterpro 2 years ago
1) I wasn't insulting Kinsman's intelligence, I was insulting his logic in this video.
2) The "genius" was just for fun, to see how many more HTWW witch hunters would take the bait and call me Lee again.
3) Pointing out an overlooked fact is not a straw man argument. On a site with this many users, finding similar names is to be expected. It shouldn't be considered suspicious.
jendan100 2 years ago
>> I was insulting his logic in this video.
It's evident that you didn't watch the video.
>> The "genius" was just for fun, to see how many
>> more HTWW witch hunters would take the bait
Some might call that a clumsy recovery.
>> finding similar names is to be expected.
That wasn't the extent of KT's argument. The names themselves aren't strong evidence as any one nam may be legit. It's the pattern that matters. Had you watched the video you would have known this.
coasterpro 2 years ago
Yes it shouldn't be suspicious at all! Even if they show signs of a similar pattern, one from each series of patterns subscribes to the same person, and all accounts being dead for months.
Yes, indeed, this is not suspicious at all. In fact it would be a fallacy to even pursue such vague notions further because similar names is to be expected.
Xirbtt 2 years ago
The key phrase in your post is this: "one from each series... subscribes". The rest is pure paranoid speculation.
A prime example:
Soc912, supposed sock, joined 4 yrs ago. Has subscribed to 2 channels -- his buddy and one with 6 subs. Great investment by the sock co. Naturally some fool left a comment on his channel accusing him of being a sock acct.
To sum up, there are ZERO proven socks, very few that are even suspicious and none that appear to be padding subscriber totals effectively.
jendan100 2 years ago
Hi, jendan. You made several points here, including some over on Thunderf00t's video about the sock investigation, so I'm picking this one arbitrarily to start responding.
"Accts coming alive...isn't suspicious, it's the owners having fun exposing you people on your idiocy."
In the video, I pointed out that them coming alive was an answer to an argument that the socks could be set up by others trying to frame HTWW.
KinsmanThoughts 2 years ago
You refer to the people poking at other's socks as "witchhunters". But you also say that the owners of suspected socks are "just having fun".
But you ignore the possibility that anyone poking at potential socks are just lovers of Youtube Drama, and are trolling around.
I think it's biased to assume that anyone causing trouble on behalf of HTWW are just innocents having fun, and that anyone causing trouble while investigating is both sincere and aggressive.
KinsmanThoughts 2 years ago
You say that the burden of the proof is on the accuser. This is true; but true in a court case.
Prior to a court case is investigation, during which conjecture is allowed, and circumstantial evidence is allowed to exist until something happens to either DQ them or tie them together.
I think that anyone talking about, or requiring, solid proof at this early stage is just trying to get it all over with at an early stage.
KinsmanThoughts 2 years ago
That said, if you want to use such serious metaphors as the courts; I've noticed that when people spread around the 'genius' meme, and trying to tease out false HTWW-spotting, they're essentially saying that "Whether or not HTWW's sock accounts are true, we'll try to make it seem as though it isn't true, by obfuscating any potential leads."
Have fun with that, but understand - out in the real world, screwing with real investigations like that can get you in trouble fast.
KinsmanThoughts 2 years ago
I suppose anyone doing that for HTWW's sake is doing it out of loyalty to the guy; but otherwise, it's not exactly a praiseworthy thing to do.
Not to mention, it gives the other side a potential 'out' even if the investigation does fall flat; "Did the investigation fail because there was no evidence, or because of HTWW's supporters obscuring any potential leads?"
KinsmanThoughts 2 years ago
You know what? Your comments about the number of accounts out there in Youtube is a fair criticism.
The theories I put out might, in the end, not be true - in fact, Thunderf00t might have proven it wrong with his observation of a potential 0-watched sock.
But jendan, you seem to be in a stew of anger about all this; just kick back and watch quietly, and comment intelligently. It's better for *both* sides of this, if you do.
And I don't think the video's a nominee for year's most stupid.
KinsmanThoughts 2 years ago
KT- I'm not even a fan of HTWW. I just don't like seeing people attacked over flimsy suspicions. What evidence have I obscured?
It's not just HTWW and his subs being harassed, now it's people whose acct names just sound similar, like soc912.
I don't watch many vids, but I've seen sock acct accusations thrown around on completely random vids. That may be good for "youtube drama", but it sure looks like a witch hunt to me.
jendan100 2 years ago
You're part of another set.
Surprise motherfucker, you've been found out.
Misterunnamed 2 years ago
What set is he part of Misterunnamed?
LovelesEntertainment 2 years ago
Good investigation. Pretty impressive.
Nashtak 2 years ago 2
Great job man.
Awwscrewit 2 years ago
You could write a program to easily scan all these so its not a manual process. If I was this third party I see that Name + number is easy to do however another method would be to just scan other social networks like ebay, facebook, myspace, etc. and steal user names and create them here or some version. Then if someone searches they find the name isnt as random and exists elsewhere online making it seem like a real person is behind it.
tobyeo 2 years ago
Excellent work. Good job tracking down some of the various soc series.
merlinnj 2 years ago 2
what are you talking about? I am not a crook.
HowTheWorldWorksSock 2 years ago
I watched CHUCKLZLORD's video the day he posted -- it was simple and kinda sweet, so I went to his channel. In the comments section there was a comment left by soc991 in appreciation of posting the video- the avatar was a picture of Doren. I clicked to go to this channel- account closed. Curiouser and curiouser.
Good investigative work, KT. I'm convinced.
Cheers!
julsHz 2 years ago
hellome133, don't even bother. The sock account BS has already been discovered.
It's a pattern, and it's been discovered. Incidentally channels which have not been alive for months suddently came alive 2 weeks ago, yep, coincidence.
Prodigyexam12 2 years ago
i am hellome133, there is a hellome134, 131, 129, 126. wow i must be fake, because people put numbers on the end of their names just because they are mass created sock accounts! maybe there is a thunderf01t!
hellome133 2 years ago
wow, did you even watch the video or are you just another stubborn conservative that refuses to admit defeat
3131222 2 years ago
That's because maybe he isn't defeated, Einstein.
HowTheWorldWorksSock 2 years ago
i prefer to be called "Genius"
3131222 2 years ago
Impressive work! Weighty evidence, that, and easily checked by anyone viewing.
jaethehilleran 2 years ago
Kudos!
4u2b1ib12 2 years ago
Well done investigation!
Thanks for investing your time into this!
normangbates 2 years ago
Another suspicious account combination is dragonkid12345 (change the numbers; they are easiest to find if you only try single, double and triplet numbers). Now I'm not saying that the one user from this "series", dragonkid72001, I know is subbed to HTWW is necessarily a sock (the channel does look legit), but generally the series looks very suspicious. Still, For some reason dragonkid72001 saw it necessary to remove his subscription of HTWW, but "forgot" to delete the comment by HTWW on his ch.
GrantZ90 2 years ago
Like most glibertarians, HTWW only believes in the free market when it is rigged in his favor.
DickyHertz 2 years ago 2
Very good video -- despite the audio quality -- you bring some pretty heavy evidence to the table. Your theory about Lee buying these accounts from a sock farm is a good one, and one that fits the evidence perfectly, and it almost fully implicates howtheworldwork in using these accounts (unless it one of the other accounts the sock puppets subscribed but that still is still unlikely because only two of the five weren't his.)
Harvey2face123 2 years ago
I comment here because I want this to be most talked and get some publicity!
tkstka 2 years ago
The annotations are unnecessary since you are actually speaking and they get in the way of the video.
DickJohnson3434 2 years ago
I tend to agree here. However, you can turn off annotations.
nutrawk669 2 years ago
"However, you can turn off annotations. "
I did not know that, thanks.
DickJohnson3434 2 years ago
Good method for analysis; I think you have shown that it is possible to figure out to a reasonable degree what accounts are Soc accounts; someone out there should do a quantitative analysis of all of these suspected and related accounts and figure out what other methods they use to operate.
Otherworld314 2 years ago
Why dont you tube delete unused accounts? I mean after its not used for 6 months the account should be cleared(the ones with nothing uploaded) and the user name put back up for taking.......Just an idea
Eldritchard 2 years ago
Excellent investigation and video!
mirrorfreespeech 2 years ago
HTWW is Spy!
Isanion 2 years ago
was that a tf2 reference?
ringostarr2007 2 years ago
yup :)
Isanion 2 years ago
hahaha gotta love it when you catch stuff like that xD
ringostarr2007 2 years ago
christ can this kid get pwned any harder......
game over HTWWs.
geordieppp 2 years ago 4
i love the rational scientific method applied to investigate these alleged sock accounts, it really is a thing of beauty, it makes perfect sense once the formula and patterns are revealed
nice work :)
queenboxi 2 years ago 4
soc991 came alive to comment this video... and guess what? the accounts closed now!
coincidence?!
good video 5/5 :D
justwayayayitaminute 2 years ago
"Anyone that far to the right is fuckin' hiding a deep, dark secret." - Bill Hicks
TheIllestVillain 2 years ago 10
"A clever saying proves nothing"
- Anonymous
"Bill Hicks was an irrational, doped up, unfunny, preachy loser"
- Me
XanatharEye 2 years ago
"The point is that such a right wing perspective so often comes with a black heart." - Me
"And before you throw the word 'irrational' around, maybe you want to learn the definition of 'argumentum ad hominem'." - Me again
TheIllestVillain 2 years ago
Wow! Nicely done.
AntiCitizenX 2 years ago
Wrong.
soc991 2 years ago
Dear Sock,
Let us be frank. There are huge piles of evidence which YouTube could use to, at the very least, revoke HTWW's "partner" status, if not have him arrested outright. The last thing you should be doing is drawing attention to yourself. You have a guaranteed money-making scheme, and your ego is doing nothing but threatening to get it all taken away. So do yourself a favor and SHUT THE HELL UP, YOU THUNDERING MORON !
AntiCitizenX 2 years ago 4
AntiCitizenX,
Stop accusing me of being Lee Doren.
soc991 2 years ago
Oh look the account closed.
AndroidPolitician 2 years ago 2
I forgot he was actually a partner. So he might actually be defrauding YouTube out of money really? Couldn't this result in legal action against him? I really hope you're right. It certainly looks suspicious.
bobble12221 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
There is nothing suspicious about it.
soc991 2 years ago
Congratulations to a job well done. Keep at it!
laack 2 years ago
Game over, Lee, game over.
mancrushonhanksnow 2 years ago
your theory does seem to hold some water, but questions still remain. What, if any, third parties exist that do this sort of thing?
7othestars 2 years ago
This kind of "evidence", would get anyone laughed out of just about any court in the world, as it is only anecdotal at best, and offers no real proof of anything.
What I find really interesting, are the lengths people who hate Lee, or his semi-libertarian viewpoint, will go to to discredit him or those viewpoints.
But I guess that's what the internet is all about, demonizing people and their viewpoints, that don't agree with your own, and justifying it any way you can.
xxxchaindrive 2 years ago
Demonizing is a specialty of Mr. Lee Doran. He likes to throw around VERY serious accusations, based on stretched or distorted information (lots of examples, the most blatant ones admitted even by himself - like his James Hansen attack).
djbanizza 2 years ago 2
I tend to distrust ANYONE who works for, or under the auspices of government, including Hansen, whose data collection techniques and record keeping, helped cause the severely flawed computer model of the so called "global warming crisis". Those types of people MUST be demonized in my opinion, as they are significantly more dangerous to freedom, than the people who bring their mistakes to light.
On the other hand, I also tend to distrust corporate shills of any stripe, as they too have an agenda
xxxchaindrive 2 years ago
Learned something new.
fighter8262 2 years ago
I was thinking he was using them to vote bomb other channels. Great 5 star video pointing out htww is a 1 star kind of guy
wickedlick 2 years ago
Excellent investigation Kinsman. I like the evidence for the socks being part of a service giving them to users who ask for it, but I still have doubts about whether Lee is responsible for this.
Orygyn 2 years ago 2
hmmm. Now I'm suspicious. Kirke420 is WAY undersubscribed.
TIPinkUnicorn 2 years ago
awesome job! you're like CSI YouTube :)
superextremelaser 2 years ago
CSI is much better than this crap.
soc991 2 years ago
of course YOU would think it's crap ha ha ha
superextremelaser 2 years ago
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA no way a soc talks!! that is awesome - - - your comment made my day - thanks!!
1n354a 2 years ago
This should be Featured.
TAz69x 2 years ago 3
I mentioned this to cristoballs as well. Even if they are sock accounts there is no proof that HTWW made them personally. For instance, if you like a music video, then you would constantly play that over and over again to boost its ratings. It inflates it without The Jonas Brothers or whoever ever knowing about it.
The accounts you showed are most likely sock accounts and you did a good job in your video, but I still have a problem that people are still jumping to how it must be HTWW's doing.
Clagnaught 2 years ago
That's true, and I have thought about that. But who in their right mind would want to boost HTWW for free?
TadRaunch 2 years ago
You made a big deal out of soc912 (created in 10/05 and has almost 9000 videos watched) having only 2 subscriptions. One of the accts subscribed to was closed and the other (dickeyko) has only 6 subscribers. Are you suggesting someone with only 6 subscribers used a third party service?
If most of these supposed sock accts, especially the older ones with hundreds or thousands of videos watched, have few or no subscriptions, how could this be profitable for a third party service?
jendan100 2 years ago
EXACTLY MY POINT. He refers to his metric of limited account use as the standard for which we should assume an account is a soc. Clearly this definition of minimal is very, very liberal. A factor that should be taken into account when we discuss accuracy of his assessment and his possible motive for producing this video.
Xtro2005 2 years ago
jendan12, 13, 85, 99 (to name a few) friends of yours?
1n354a 2 years ago
Given that youtube is in the top five internet sites globally, I would be surprised not see numerical sequences after common user names like titan or redbeard. I would only find it suspicious if the accounts in the same series were created around the same time, and they were not in the examples given.
jendan100 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
You're a pathetic loser. What kind of loser would worry about something on a computer screen.
Get a life outside of YouTube, moron.
SotomayorSucks 2 years ago
I poked into this for a while and I know how much work can go into doing this type of digging.
Marvelous job and fantastically well presented.
themadhair 2 years ago 2
Stop being a drone.
soc991 2 years ago
i see socks everywhere...
Slimpan 2 years ago
We do not need a 10 minute video explaining how conservatives cheat, lie and steal,,,but thanks anyway for your efforts!
renijohn012270 2 years ago
HTWW is a scumbag.
eunicron 2 years ago
his subscribers are real, just like me
HTWWSock333 2 years ago
that account was obviously made for trolling and making this whole subject a joke.
Well you dont dictate the rules and dont dictate the outcome.
have a nice day.
tkstka 2 years ago
"that account was obviously made for trolling and making this whole subject a joke."
No, THIS account was obviously made for trolling and this whole subject is a joke.
HowTheWorldWorksSock 2 years ago
yes troll more it will just fuel this even more and eventually get providers who sell those socket accounts banned and removal of those accounts.
keep typing and viewing videos you bring publisity to these videos.
So by trolling you help us. thanks
tkstka 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
win win win win win win!!!
andiconda3 2 years ago
HTWW blocked me for mentioning this video.
g12er 2 years ago 4
as well he should
HTWWSock333 2 years ago
Rather compelling evidence.
I had defended HTWW prior to this (even as a fan of Tf00t), as I felt there was no evidence, but now some evidence is finally shown...
Nothing seems "solid", but it's a start...
HeadoftheHydra 2 years ago
One comment was all it took for me to get blocked from posting on his videos.
mipp28 2 years ago
So. Epic irony.
Not to say that these are indeed sock accounts, but if one curious enough takes the time to use the same methodology used by the author of the video...
A great deal of these commentators seem to have the same kind of doppelgangers shown in the video. I went down just the first few on the list, and I found numerical variation sock accounts for 99bit, kmonster420, upsilon054.
Epic Irony.
Thesheik05 2 years ago
they are all real. we are not sock accounts
HTWWSock333 2 years ago
An interesting theory, but I don't think it has quite enough evidence to stand on. For this to be more than just speculation you'd need to find examples of the socks lining up in a way similar to how they do with Lee's account. Like examples of the "Mooja" series and the "iheart" series subscribed to the same subscribers in a similar fashion. If you could find that this theory would go from possible to probable.
99bit 2 years ago
As mentioned in this video, it's the accumulation of data that does it, not one thing on it's own. A bunch of generic names differentiated by number with almost no activity, or only one channel view or subscription is suspicious. People who only see one video don't register as users.
Enough to convict? No, of course not. This is a hell of a lot of smoke though and as members of the community we need to ask YouTube to see if there's fire.
LynxChan 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
get a life
kmonster420 2 years ago
A "sock puppet service", set up years ago? Who on Earth thinks of such things? And this Lee Doren character ALLEGEDLY used the services of the same?
Rest assured that I, Upsilon054, is not a sock puppet :-/
Geesh, what the hell is going on here?
upsilon054 2 years ago
1) Get a better mic man... that was painful to listen to.
2) I think to really prove your theory, you'd have to FIND a sock account service like the one you mention.
3) These "series" of accounts you mention could easily be legitimate... remember, millions of users create accounts.
eagleeye1975 2 years ago
Wow.
Dramphooey 2 years ago
Case in point, my own account comes in a vast series of names. As of just recently, within the last 10 months, I've subbed to the vast majority of my existing subscriptions. By your own rational I would have been a sock despite my thousands of videos watched.
Xtro2005 2 years ago
I think he took that into account. Your account has a lot of content, though. The argument here is taking EVERYTHING into consideration, including the blankness of the account, and the fact that a lot from its series are also blank, and very similar in how their contents are managed. But who cares.
AmericanMonk247 2 years ago
I have to disagree. He cites mooja12 as a sock while he or she has over 1,800 views. Obviously his metric for gauging minimal use is rather liberal. Furthermore he goes on to state the rebutall from accused socks is evidence of their guilt. I couldn't, in good conscience, with every effort of preserving Ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, make such a circular claim.
Xtro2005 2 years ago
HEY! No need for that kind of language, buddy. (My Latin's a bit rusty)
I agree. There's still far too much doubt in my mind to jump to any certain conclusion, but the evidence is enough to raise suspicions. It's worth looking into. Would you be so surprised to find a third party that creates multiple accounts in order to subscribe over and over to his/her/their clients? YouTube's a business, and this would basically be free partner money. All I'm saying is it's worth looking into.
AmericanMonk247 2 years ago
My point is that it's not evidence. the lack of activity on other accounts with some value following it, (the author of this piece was willing to include lettering changes too which I think is dishonest) doesn't make them socs. There are likely tens of thousands of accounts forgotten or replaced daily. From the value correlation he erects this notion of SoC farming which he provides no evidence for anywhere in his piece which is meant to explain how HTWW could have done this.
Xtro2005 2 years ago
are you by chance friends with Xtro2006? or 2007? or 2008?
see by posting all you are doing is exposing other chains of accounts...I would suggest being quiet so that you don't screw up the business model....
1n354a 2 years ago
Rofl I believe I mentioned in my own text that my name also has variants. But it was indeed clever of you to notice. With over 150 subs and 22,000+ videos watched I'm with out a doubt a soc. I guess that relieves how sound the author's thesis is.
Xtro2005 2 years ago
The argument being made here is teaming with fallacies. It's rather axiomatic that internet screen names will follow successions and registered, unused accounts are not evidence that clearly active names in a series are socks. Furthermore it's a little more than circular reasoning to ask for proof of a negative, that these are not sock accounts, and then suggest the accounts in contention's rebuttal is proof positive of the charade.
Xtro2005 2 years ago
imperialism and fascism are two sides of the same barbarian coin...
Workers of the world unite against the money grabbing politicians...
workergirls 2 years ago
OMG pwnt.
TinyCoconut 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
zzzz shitty video
Kiwirnango 2 years ago
I have sent messages to some of these people, I am sure you did not. If I had the time I would send more.
john38235133 2 years ago
hes been on here since at least early 2006 under the channel called bureaucrash
TwoStepBilly 2 years ago
What a dishonest crook this howtheworldworks idiot is.
Great analysis btw!
TheInvaderBN 2 years ago 2
HTWW = Posterboy for Libertarian Stupidity.
PLS.
Shavarnarak 2 years ago 6
word
ScreechingInsanity 2 years ago
Accounts created, but "EMPTY SLEEPERS" are the following:
follower67,71,73,76,79,87,88,89,90,
91,92,94,99,100,101,102,111,121,123,
129,131,143,144.
Now that is interesting.
kleenex3000 2 years ago
I'd respond to your comment but i am just a sock account. my main purpose in life is to rent myslef as a youtube subscription harlot.
/sarcasm
follower64 2 years ago
Now, what a Misery!
/sarcasm ;-)))
kleenex3000 2 years ago
check out this series: follower58 follower57 follower56 follower54 follower50 follower45(probably) follower44
follower37 follower35 follower33
seems logical that i (follower64) would be a part of it, no?
but i'm not. maybe some of these sock accounts are just blokes with unfortunate usernames.
follower64 2 years ago
Comment removed
g12er 2 years ago
Comment removed
g12er 2 years ago
It was NOT just the names that were at issue in the video. It's that they were:
1) Similiar names.
2) Similiar appearances.
3) Low usage, if any.
4) Tied to HTWW who won't make his list available.
5) HTWW had a goal of subscribers.
6) Admitted he got on YT when he heared people made money (See Thunderfoot's old video).
7) Has ads on his channel.
8) Has a history of lying.
9) Refuses to make his list available for a short period, when it could vindicate him.
g12er 2 years ago
Some good points. He could be using some, but they don't comprise the majority of his fan base.
But I dont think the number of subs he has have anything to do with his messages and opinions. he's not trying to make himself seem "more right" by having more subscribers.
follower64 2 years ago
Why, then, is he using the sock accounts and subscribing to himself?
AndrewTheEternal 2 years ago
I don't think anyone would claim the majority of his subscribers are socks. In fact, I haven't seen anyone make that claim.
I also think some people subscribe to him to monitor his videos and are not fans, but critics.
g12er 2 years ago
I'm sure the same could be said of most political YT channels.
Xtro2005 2 years ago
Xtro2005,
I completely agree.
g12er 2 years ago
What this video doesn't explain is how I am supposed to tell if *I* am a sock account. How would I know? I can't investigate myself and I can't make another account to investigate this one; because that would be a sock account.
*Ponders furiously*
aManApathetic 2 years ago
I am wondering the same thing. Maybe it's like the Matrix, and EVERYONE is a sock account >.>
follower64 2 years ago
I like socks, so I wish we didn't use that term. If they were 'tentacle accounts' that would be more fitting of it.
BTW, your video doesn't prove that HTWW does not use sock puppets, only that you're not one. Type your name in with a different number and keep trying. After just four attempts, I got a dormant one: follower99. It being dormant suggests it has yet to be sold in a package by the vlog-promotion site that made it.
It isn't the coincidences, but the pattern that damns Lee Doren.
aManApathetic 2 years ago 2
Excellent detective work.
GhostsAndAliens 2 years ago
Nice work, dude!
I haven't though that a third party could be behind the accounts. Is it possible that this third party could also be behind the vote bot attacks?
Htww calls people drones, yet there is evidence that he is using drones himself. He says he supports free speech, yet he censors users who have something to say about him. Things aren't looking too good for Lee right now :)
YoinkinatorX 2 years ago
I once saw a company that would just add thousands of views to a video for partners, they demanded 1.5$ for every 1000 views per video if i remember correctly you get 2.5$ for every 1000 views your videos get as a partner...
dwoclan 2 years ago