The last sentence is what's so awesome about Buddhist philosophy: it's childish. Children express their Buddha nature by asking us what we think of as "ridiculous" questions. I tell my child "It's raining" and he says "Who's raining?"
His idea on music is that "good" means holds to it's proper standard. So good music is just the music itself. As for the punk or rock or hip hop, it's spoken word, not 'music'. The only really reason it's called music is because it's a simplification for describing that category or ignorance on the behalf of the artist. But, whatever.
I think Alans point about music is in the way it is written... if it is written for meaning other than to 'listen' to it then it is bad music... like most adverts on TV are 'bad' because they are designed to trick us into buying products, although I guess you can admire the creativity involved in that process too. Thus something like punk rock would be a great example of 'listen' to it... hear the intensity of emotion in the music and lyrics etc etc
@edwoodashton one thing that can annoy me is if some advertisement for a product gains access to use some old song I like in their TV ad. Then that song may later have that attachment to it. But maybe this is more of a problem with myself involving clinging to things or some type of perfectionism.
@1:08: Actually, the Chinese word for noun is "名詞" (Mingci), lit. "name term". But he's right, the idea that nouns and verbs are always distinct is really an Indo-European thing.
This wisdom was revealed to me by the magic mushroom. I couldn't seperate moment from moment. I remember looking at an apple and being absolutely dumbstruck by it, with the extinction of time and space, names and forms don't make sense at all. I would stare at one thing for minutes just experiencing it in it's own reality. Individual things don't exist. The process of birth, life, and death -- Creation and destruction -- are forever. You make call it an apple, but it's only an experience.
The prevalence of nouns in indo-european language, I believe is because of 'the empire of the sun', or the 'cult of the sun'. This spread under the worship of the bull, rationalism, fascism spread through india, persia, aryans, germanic teutons conquering europe, eventually becoming 'the west', under christianity, rationality as an end rather than as a tool.
I agree with his point on music, you shouldn't have to ask the meaning of the music, because it's whole point was to express something.
@dddilly thanks for replying! it feels like I'm just saying this shit out into the wilderness
the term 'cowboy' takes a different meaning in this light, when refferring to the two main immigrants in the U.S, the celtic (irish) yankees and the teutonic (english) cowboys in the southern U.S.
@natmanprime you betcha. as alan watts says, the 'stuff' around us might be seen as just a lot of large, drawn-out events. anyway, it's refreshing to look at the same-ol' same-ol' from a longer perspective. keep posting!
Well that is of course just his opinion based on preference, I would have to agree that there is something marvelous about the ability to communicate through music. Notice the examples of music he gave are vocal-less forms. It really is a moot point because Alan would hardly say he wrote all those books just to write, there was intention. Art, music especially, is what I consider to be one of the few ways we have left to really communicate and inspire beyond our individual persona.
i disagree with his point on music because it depends on your definition of "music" if music "good music" as he calls it, only refers to it's self then my version of good music (punk rock) is not because the genera relys heavily on conveying emotion and information. yet punk is still music it is merely a differing variation of his notion it refers to it's self by being punk. it would be interesting to discuss the topic with him. is Alan still alive?
"The something cathedral" is not a good way to call La Cathédrale Engloutie when you're trying to portray your knowledge of what makes good music. Debussy's work wasn't good or bad because what it reffered to, which, even if specified by the composer, is just a suggestion rather than a definition. It is good because it was original, fresh, new and creative, musically speaking. As for punk music, it cannot be said the same thing, since it's not new nor creative from a musical point of view.
@iroveashe how is it not new or creative? at most the genera has only been around since the late 70s pretty new in the spectrum of music. how is it not creative? there are many bands that blend other genera and styles to give a very wide and deep selection, "the bastard suns" for instance are an irish/reggae/gospel-punk band thats pretty damn original. there is very little if any "original" music anymore because all the notes were founded ages ago.
@shinkengatsxa Popular music is widely based on tradtition, ironically, most rock music presents itself as rebel, while in fact, MUSICALLY (that is, if you take away the lyrics and to some extent the instruments), what you're left with is music that is about 300 years behind. When "the notes were founded" is completely irrelevant, since what makes music fresh is the way in which those notes are combined, and the way it is done in punk music is far from new.
@iroveashe so then you would be of the opinion that attitude and delivery are not part of the music? punk uses the notes in relatively new ways considering the social and political direction, you cannot separate lyrics from the music because it is part of the artistic piece. punk rock blends elements of folk, and blues with the socially conscious messages of the hippys era. but it is in a new way because it takes a harder, faster, more yang approach
@shinkengatsxa Of course they're not. They're as much part of music as Lady Gaga's outfits. And no, they don't use notes in new ways at all. Their political/social meaning is in no way translated into music. If you'd hear the music without the lyrics, you would not guess that they're in rebeldy, to the contrary, they seem quite fond of rules. You must separate the lyrics from the music. Music is abstract, lyrics are not. If you want to say something concrete be a writer, not a musician.
@iroveashe then you are a fool and you miss the big picture, if Pavarotti sings a song the words are designed to inspire emotion with the notes. words give a finer point to an overall emotion the instruments project. punk is original in the way that it is played if you cant hear the rebellious spirit in the music it's self well that is simply your poor ear. music is an art, your opinion is that if a picture is clear then it is a bad painting which is equally foolish.
@iroveashe and if you think the music doesnt speak for it's self then i challenge you to find a punk band in a language other than english and tell me they do not convey rebellious emotion solely through the emotion of the music (if you cant understand the language it will be easier to focus on the feeling) punk is minimalist with very little rules and the genera is very diverse in its self. being of the opinion that music should be abstract is purely subjective.
Performing music is not identical to music. Playing music is not identical to music. Lyrics, while part of the work of art as much as anything else, convey semantic meaning which I don't think is technically part of the music itself.
@shinkengatsxa hmmm, I also disagree with his statement. I love Debussy's "sunken Cathedral" and I think it's great music (and I also think some things by the Ramones is good for example). Just because music may refer to something (either influenced or purposefully intended to be attached to some "thing or event") doesn't mean I have to even be aware of those things or events. Ideally even if I were aware, I could appreciate the music even if the thing or event was disagreeable to me
part2... I will say that some music with lyrics in English may disqualify themselves from being appreciated by me because I do not like the meanings they produce. So even if I may like the actual sound music, the attached sybo0lic language may be annoying to me. This is more of a reflection on the fact that my "personality" (or ingrained persona) is such that it does not mesh well with those words than (perhaps) an indication of the music itself.
The last sentence is what's so awesome about Buddhist philosophy: it's childish. Children express their Buddha nature by asking us what we think of as "ridiculous" questions. I tell my child "It's raining" and he says "Who's raining?"
chondestes 4 days ago
I don't know what imma do once ive watched all of Alan's lectures!
elchafa 2 months ago
@elchafa play every game you can
or dont
same thing
willie1490 2 days ago
His idea on music is that "good" means holds to it's proper standard. So good music is just the music itself. As for the punk or rock or hip hop, it's spoken word, not 'music'. The only really reason it's called music is because it's a simplification for describing that category or ignorance on the behalf of the artist. But, whatever.
Spikes10546 4 months ago
@Spikes10546 when does a word become a musical sound?
when it becomes just a sound to the listener.
many words are sung and are not understood as anything other than a noise....
life i find is a very individual expierence... i have often wondered wether or not we all see the same things through our eyes.
when i was younger i simplified the idea down to colours
ie colour blind people have some bother.
listening to music in a language you dont understand.....mwahaahaa
bannana 4 the monkey?:)
hongkongfooyHAZE 4 months ago
And nothing is everything.
vef444 6 months ago
Everything is nothing.
vef444 6 months ago
excuse me but where is part 4? ;)
Sacher01 8 months ago
I think Alans point about music is in the way it is written... if it is written for meaning other than to 'listen' to it then it is bad music... like most adverts on TV are 'bad' because they are designed to trick us into buying products, although I guess you can admire the creativity involved in that process too. Thus something like punk rock would be a great example of 'listen' to it... hear the intensity of emotion in the music and lyrics etc etc
edwoodashton 8 months ago
@edwoodashton one thing that can annoy me is if some advertisement for a product gains access to use some old song I like in their TV ad. Then that song may later have that attachment to it. But maybe this is more of a problem with myself involving clinging to things or some type of perfectionism.
pugcasso 8 months ago
for people who say they disagree with Watts's comments on music, you have missed the point
KingMoses3 8 months ago
Ai, I'm afraid i must disagree completely .on the musical issue.
churchsoho 10 months ago
@1:08: Actually, the Chinese word for noun is "名詞" (Mingci), lit. "name term". But he's right, the idea that nouns and verbs are always distinct is really an Indo-European thing.
LeHuyAnh 10 months ago
This wisdom was revealed to me by the magic mushroom. I couldn't seperate moment from moment. I remember looking at an apple and being absolutely dumbstruck by it, with the extinction of time and space, names and forms don't make sense at all. I would stare at one thing for minutes just experiencing it in it's own reality. Individual things don't exist. The process of birth, life, and death -- Creation and destruction -- are forever. You make call it an apple, but it's only an experience.
djtoolhead 10 months ago
I hate to put name to his form but Alan Watts is a legend. That man is having a peacefull off because when he was on he was on.
theinfinitezero1 1 year ago
Every phrase of this series is deep and very awaking.Thanks!
existentaeinutila 1 year ago
The prevalence of nouns in indo-european language, I believe is because of 'the empire of the sun', or the 'cult of the sun'. This spread under the worship of the bull, rationalism, fascism spread through india, persia, aryans, germanic teutons conquering europe, eventually becoming 'the west', under christianity, rationality as an end rather than as a tool.
I agree with his point on music, you shouldn't have to ask the meaning of the music, because it's whole point was to express something.
natmanprime 1 year ago
@natmanprime very interesting, natmanprime. thanks for taking time to post this.
dddilly 1 year ago
@dddilly thanks for replying! it feels like I'm just saying this shit out into the wilderness
the term 'cowboy' takes a different meaning in this light, when refferring to the two main immigrants in the U.S, the celtic (irish) yankees and the teutonic (english) cowboys in the southern U.S.
democrats vs republicans
progressives vs conservatives
catholics vs protestants
rock vs country
wall street wealth vs land wealth
new york vs houston
marvel vs DC
etc
natmanprime 1 year ago
@natmanprime you betcha. as alan watts says, the 'stuff' around us might be seen as just a lot of large, drawn-out events. anyway, it's refreshing to look at the same-ol' same-ol' from a longer perspective. keep posting!
dddilly 1 year ago
so wonderful *
zeelove8 1 year ago
you know that sting song that goes "do do do, da da da"....?
planetdarwin 1 year ago
Well that is of course just his opinion based on preference, I would have to agree that there is something marvelous about the ability to communicate through music. Notice the examples of music he gave are vocal-less forms. It really is a moot point because Alan would hardly say he wrote all those books just to write, there was intention. Art, music especially, is what I consider to be one of the few ways we have left to really communicate and inspire beyond our individual persona.
PixelPariah 2 years ago
i disagree with his point on music because it depends on your definition of "music" if music "good music" as he calls it, only refers to it's self then my version of good music (punk rock) is not because the genera relys heavily on conveying emotion and information. yet punk is still music it is merely a differing variation of his notion it refers to it's self by being punk. it would be interesting to discuss the topic with him. is Alan still alive?
shinkengatsxa 2 years ago
Died on 1973
plague613 2 years ago
@plague613 I dont suppose you mean IN rather than ON. jk, thats what Alan would say lol
Neyowolf 1 year ago
"The something cathedral" is not a good way to call La Cathédrale Engloutie when you're trying to portray your knowledge of what makes good music. Debussy's work wasn't good or bad because what it reffered to, which, even if specified by the composer, is just a suggestion rather than a definition. It is good because it was original, fresh, new and creative, musically speaking. As for punk music, it cannot be said the same thing, since it's not new nor creative from a musical point of view.
iroveashe 1 year ago
@iroveashe how is it not new or creative? at most the genera has only been around since the late 70s pretty new in the spectrum of music. how is it not creative? there are many bands that blend other genera and styles to give a very wide and deep selection, "the bastard suns" for instance are an irish/reggae/gospel-punk band thats pretty damn original. there is very little if any "original" music anymore because all the notes were founded ages ago.
shinkengatsxa 1 year ago
@shinkengatsxa Popular music is widely based on tradtition, ironically, most rock music presents itself as rebel, while in fact, MUSICALLY (that is, if you take away the lyrics and to some extent the instruments), what you're left with is music that is about 300 years behind. When "the notes were founded" is completely irrelevant, since what makes music fresh is the way in which those notes are combined, and the way it is done in punk music is far from new.
iroveashe 1 year ago
@iroveashe so then you would be of the opinion that attitude and delivery are not part of the music? punk uses the notes in relatively new ways considering the social and political direction, you cannot separate lyrics from the music because it is part of the artistic piece. punk rock blends elements of folk, and blues with the socially conscious messages of the hippys era. but it is in a new way because it takes a harder, faster, more yang approach
shinkengatsxa 1 year ago
@shinkengatsxa Of course they're not. They're as much part of music as Lady Gaga's outfits. And no, they don't use notes in new ways at all. Their political/social meaning is in no way translated into music. If you'd hear the music without the lyrics, you would not guess that they're in rebeldy, to the contrary, they seem quite fond of rules. You must separate the lyrics from the music. Music is abstract, lyrics are not. If you want to say something concrete be a writer, not a musician.
iroveashe 1 year ago
@iroveashe then you are a fool and you miss the big picture, if Pavarotti sings a song the words are designed to inspire emotion with the notes. words give a finer point to an overall emotion the instruments project. punk is original in the way that it is played if you cant hear the rebellious spirit in the music it's self well that is simply your poor ear. music is an art, your opinion is that if a picture is clear then it is a bad painting which is equally foolish.
shinkengatsxa 1 year ago
@iroveashe and if you think the music doesnt speak for it's self then i challenge you to find a punk band in a language other than english and tell me they do not convey rebellious emotion solely through the emotion of the music (if you cant understand the language it will be easier to focus on the feeling) punk is minimalist with very little rules and the genera is very diverse in its self. being of the opinion that music should be abstract is purely subjective.
shinkengatsxa 1 year ago
@shinkengatsxa
Performing music is not identical to music. Playing music is not identical to music. Lyrics, while part of the work of art as much as anything else, convey semantic meaning which I don't think is technically part of the music itself.
JMAdvocatusD 8 months ago
@shinkengatsxa you've missed the point
KingMoses3 8 months ago
@shinkengatsxa hmmm, I also disagree with his statement. I love Debussy's "sunken Cathedral" and I think it's great music (and I also think some things by the Ramones is good for example). Just because music may refer to something (either influenced or purposefully intended to be attached to some "thing or event") doesn't mean I have to even be aware of those things or events. Ideally even if I were aware, I could appreciate the music even if the thing or event was disagreeable to me
pugcasso 8 months ago
part2... I will say that some music with lyrics in English may disqualify themselves from being appreciated by me because I do not like the meanings they produce. So even if I may like the actual sound music, the attached sybo0lic language may be annoying to me. This is more of a reflection on the fact that my "personality" (or ingrained persona) is such that it does not mesh well with those words than (perhaps) an indication of the music itself.
pugcasso 8 months ago