"Hell" should not have been used in the tranlation of the bible. The word has pagan origin.. confuses people. God is not going to allow our souls to be tortued. Romans 6:23... Sheol and Hades are the common grave.. Gehenna is symbolic for complete destruction. Hell is another pagan belief that has been intertwined with "false" christianity just liked christmas, haloween, and other pagan rituals and beliefs. Research!
@relefordnation you are correct. We use Hell in titling since "the ultimate destiny of the wicked" is more wordy and will not fit the youtube limitations. We do recognize the latter is more accurate. Edward titles his book with the longer more accurate choice of words. Thanks for your comment.
O spiritually dead one @PUREAIRSOLUTIONS, you who profess to be a son of the most High, here is an example of your "love" for your brother that you posted on 552K's Youtube Channel, and I quote, "You cunt face little prick.I'll beat your worthless head in with a bat!!!!!!!! Little prick. What a loser.Bet your mother still has the scum stain of your birth Let me smash your face in to shut you up" "For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned." Matthew 12:37
@Lysimachus78 Edward had told me the print is smaller so they are getting more on the page. I have the original hard bound Verdict published and several of the print on demand 1st edition. The 3rd edition does have extra new material. I have read much of the new but I have not compared to see if anything was dropped. I would be interested to know if you find out.
fleetwood you can disagree all you want but you are grabbing at straws, Pureairsolutins is correct, and only the foolish will say that the Bible is symbalic when talking about hell, i hope God will open your eyes, satan has done a fantasic job at clouding the minds of Christians PureAir is correctly told you from Gods word and you and others on this site wont see it ---- its a sad thing!!!!
I know you will respond but think about it b4 you do!!
@mtavarez4561 If you are interested in learning, and I leave that up to you to decide for yourself, I have posted 2 resent audio podcast links on my channel. The 1st link is Edward's Synopsis of his 3rd edition of The Fire That Consumes. The 2nd link has Edward answering common objections raised by the interviewer. The issues raised by Pureairsolutins are dealt with on the 2nd link. Unlike your insinuation of satanic blindness toward those who differ with you, I have no such thought toward you.
@mtavarez4561 By the way, I have these podcasts listed on my channel in 2 places on About Me: the links work, on Channel Comments: you will have to copy and paste the link into your web browser.
Thanks for posting this video. Edward is very versed on the subject. While I don't agree with all of his viewpoints, he work is based on solid bible study.
@fleetwd1 No doubt, that is what brought me here. I'm in the middle of reading it right now, which is taking a lot of time. I'm amazed at how in-depth it is. I'm hoping to have it finished by the end of next week and a review to be posted that following week.
They are making a movie about Edward and what he went through over this issue. You can find out about it on YouTube HellandMrFudgemovie They have some behind the scenes video and first look shots. There are short clips you may find interesting. They wrapped up shooting and the movie is do out in 2012. Some of the story is based on his testimony which I have video on my channel too. I find it quite interesting. Embracing truth is often a challenge.
Psalms 9:17 Psalms 139:8 Matthew 5:22,29-30 Matthew 7: 13 Matthew 10:28 Matthew 13:49-50 Matthew 25:46 Mark 9:43,45,47 Luke 12:5 Luke 16:23-24,26 2 Thessalonians 1:9 James 3:6 2 Peter 2:4 Jude 1:6 Revelation 1:18 Revelation 6:8 Revelation 14:10-11 Revelation 19:20 Revelation 20:10,13-15 Revelation 21:8 "He who believes is not judged. But whoever does not believe has been judged already because he does not believe in the Name of the only begotten son of God." John 3:18
@PureAirSolutions Jn 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son that whosoever believe on him should not perish. Now are you saying perish does not mean perish but instead it means to be kept alive forever to be tortured? You do not want to take at face value the many plain texts that say the wicked die, perish, or will be destroyed. I do not know how you reconcile death with not dying, perish with not perishing and destruction with not being destroyed at all.
@PureAirSolutions Many of the texts you list here teach that the wicked die, perish or are destroyed. Something you seem to deny. Read them in context.
@fleetwd1 Well then, in contest, lets go back to Revelation 20:10, "and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever."
When all the texts on hell are put together, then the picture is clear. We cannot leave out some texts on hell without looking at those texts that do speak of eternal torment that lasts forever as well.
@PureAirSolutions You seem like an intelligent fellow who has a fine business serving the needs of many with pure air solutions. Since you want to go back to old arguments I assume you are tired. I wish you well.
@PureAirSolutions O spiritually dead one, you who speak of love, yet show none, He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now. 1 John 2:9 But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes. 1 John 2:11Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15
@PureAirSolutions O spiritually dead one, the scriptures speak to the vanity of fools, despicable dogs such as yourself, They conceive mischief, and bring forth vanity, and their belly prepareth deceit. Job 15:35 Let not him that is deceived trust in vanity: for vanity shall be his recompence. Job 15:31 His mouth is full of cursing and deceit and fraud, under his tongue is mischief and vanity. Psalm 10:7
"And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name." Revelation 14:11
This is clear enough. Hell and eternal torture IS taught in the New Testament.
@PureAirSolutions Bravo! The two texts you cite are the only two that come closest to affirming unending conscious torment. The problem is you want to take these at face value (literally) while scores of other texts that contradict these are in plain text passages not symbolic ones as these two clearly are.
Is this what you really want as your hermeneutic? Apocalyptic passages taken as literal and interpreting the dozens of plain texts that contradict them? Ignorance is a matter of opinion.
@fleetwd1 The problem is you do not want to accept the obvious meanings of those texts and I might add, there are plenty of other texts contrary to what you say that affirm hell is conscious, lasts forever and eternal, the fire is never quenched, the smoke of the torment rises forever, there is no rest day or night. The FACT there is "no rest day or night" proves that the felt torture never ends, otherwise it would be in error to put it that way since if it ended, then there would be rest.
@PureAirSolutions O spiritually dead one, you who have not a heart for God but one of deceit, He that hateth dissembleth with his lips, and layeth up deceit within him. Proverbs 26:24, Frowardness is in his heart, he deviseth mischief continually; he soweth discord. Proverbs 6:14, They conceive mischief, and bring forth vanity, and their belly prepareth deceit Job 15:35, They speak vanity every one with his neighbour, with flattering lips and with a double heart do they speak Psalm 12:2
"And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever." Revelation 20:10 The beast and false prophet are human beings and they are tormented day and night forever and ever. Thats what the text says and thats what the text means. The speaker says it was "greeks" who "invented" this concept of eternal torture. As usual, we have another ignorant speaker on stage.
@PureAirSolutions Just as Mary is seen as a woman with child being chased by a Dragon through the heavens, this symbolizes a real literal event that has taken place. It would be foolish to suggest taking this literally. This symbolic text of judgement is based on a literal event of Sodom's destruction. If you go there today, it is still barren from the fire and brimstone that fell but it is not still burning nor does the smoke still rise. The effect of the punishment is eternal not the duration.
@fleetwd1 Revelation 12:1 is symbolic. Revelation 20:10, Revelation 14:11 are not, they are literal truths. Besides, for Jesus to teach the Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus and use something NOT true like the rich man in fire and tormented would have been wrong to do.
"The Holy Spirit will convict men of sin, righteousness and eternal judgement."
The effect AND duration is eternal. Everlasting fire is not quenched.
"Where their worm dies not, and the fire is not quenched." Mark 9:44
@PureAirSolutions "Wrong to do" in whose opinion? Are you now ready to put your judgment at odds with those of Jesus. Can he not revise a familiar rabbinic parable based not on divine revelation from the OT but from intertestamental writings and folklore to teach his audience a truth about stewardship and responsibility toward the poor? The sneers from his audience attests the truth he uttered had nothing to do with the truth of the familiar story. It was the vehicle, not an endorsement of it.
@phillip78 correct we have it now by faith only, not inherently as many falsely teach. Our immortality is in Jesus Christ. When He returns this mortal shall put on immortality. Thanks for the comment.
@delt01 I am not sure of what your point is. My point was to affirm Phillip78 comment, "Only God has an immortal soul. Not man." backed up by the text 1Tim 6:16
@phillip78 That is correct! I was baffled when I saw someone's comment on another video like this one. He/she was attacking the video for not believing in eternal torment and went on this tirade saying how no one would die and people had to go to hell because the soul is immortal. I have not found a single verse in the Bible saying that humans have immoral souls. It does, however, say that we ARE souls, not that we have them or that they are separate from our bodies.
@CherryFrog321 That is right. When ppl say we have a souls is wrong. Scripture state that we BECAME a living soul. Gen 2:7 I think ppl say we have a immortal soul in just a desperate attempt to uphold eternal torment.
Thanks for putting up the Edward Fudge videos. I've included links to these and other videos in a forum on Yourchristianspace, where I find that many are confused on this issue or subscribe to the incorrect traditional view of a burning hell. Fudge sprays plenty of water on the flames of hell and also teaches the correct view of the soul.
@DrStevenz You are more than welcome. I have a playlist that covers all the videos, there are about 14 -10min sections for the complete message. The Book they are based upon Published in 1982 is currently undergoing it's 3rd revision and will be out by Spring or Summer. It was a solid work that is time tested. Edward felt that he needed to address current theological concerns or objections that were not part of the debate at the time of the first publishing.
@fedupalready19 It is Gods war that is coming ,yet Jesus will lead himself and the angels to fight the war. I think this is what you are asking.I must admit, these little boxs are sometimes hard to put anything into them.
@shihtzufizzers Since Jesus is clearly claiming to be the First and the Last in Rev 22:12-13 and again in Rev 2:8 and since Isaiah 44:6 records Jehovah God saying "I am the First and the Last; apart from me there is no God". Wat must we conclude about the true identity of Jesus ?
@fedupalready19 I have pointed out many scriptures where Jesus himself admits he is not equal to God. He tells us he was created, where God has no begining. There is a perfect bond and union between both of them. they have the same traits,ect. When learning greek and hebrew words from the original writings, educating oneself constantly, ones learns the truth. If they were one, why would God have to come to earth to prove himself faithful to himself? Just for starters.
@shihtzufizzers Here is a question for you, since you boast of your knowledge and study. Psalm 102 is a prayer to Jehovah God as verse 1 indicates. Vs. 25-27 clearly describe Jehovah God's unchanging eternal nature compared to His creation which is finite and dependent upon Him. If Jesus is a mere creature as the Watchtower teaches, then doesn't the fact that in Hebrews 1:10-12 where these verses from Psalm 102:25-27 are applied to Jesus indicate an overwhelming contradiction ?
@fedupalready19 well I just received some info about you, you are a couple other ppl on you tube, like Chris la rock, quest for truth ect. You have a multiple personality disorder, because of how you speak under one name and under another. why? Just be you. You obviously do not want the truth or any answers outside of what you want to hear. So the following is not for you, but anyone who is interested. Please no more replies from you because it is not worth it.
@fedupalready19 For anyone interested in the answer to this and not looking for an argument, I hope this helps. Just like an architech makes blue prints and a carpenter reads and builds from them, same as God and Jesus. they both can be creators. Jehovah made the blue print and Jesus read them and help create. That is why one scripture says towards God and one is toward Jesus. more Scriptures to show that THe two are separate are Col 1:15. and Prov 8:22 (cont)
@fedupalready19 cont - col 1:15 "He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; So Jesus is God image and first of all creation, pretty self explanatory. Prov 8:22 "Jehovah himself produced me as the beginning of his way, the earliest of his achievements of long ago. Again showing Jesus was created and the earliest of his creations. To anyone interested, I hope this helps, if you just want to argue, I won't for that is what satan wants.
@shihtzufizzersFirst of all I don't want to argue, but as a soldier for Christ, I must defend God's message. Also my name is not Chris la rock or whatever else you are saying. In view of the fact that David was the last-born son of Jesse,what do you think scripture means when it calls him the firstborn in Psalm 89:27? Why in Jeremiah 31:9 is Ephraim called firstborn, when in Gen. 41:50,51 it is obvious Manasseh was born first? Why didn't Paul use the term first-created in Col. 1:15 ?
@fedupalready19 have you ever played hopscotch? because that is what you do with Gods words. You forget ALL scriptures are inspired from him(2Tim 3:16) so Just a quick thought. in the bible when jesus created things the preposion is through , not out of. The son is the one THrough whom God performed the creative works there described by the psalmist. like heb 1:5b is made from 2 sam 7:14 one was for solomon and one for Jesus, but it does not mean solomon & jesus are the same.
@fedupalready19 Ps 89:27 states "Also, I myself shall place him as firstborn,
The most high of the kings of the earth. It says I shall PLACE HIM AS 1st born, not he was the first born, it is a placement. And we know of brothers "selling there birthright of 1st born for food in the bible. So then theantoher child would be considered 1st born in title. There fore still showing with understanding of the scriptures that Col 1:15 holds true. Jesus was first born.
@shihtzufizzers cont. Contrary to this passage teaching that Jesus is a creature, Col 1:16-17 proves His diety. Jehovah says in Isaiah 44:24, I, Jehovah, am the maker of all things, stretching out the heavens by Myself,and spreading out the earth all alone.How do you reconcile this with the watchtower teaching that Jehovah first created Christ and then somehow Christ became a junior partner and created everything else ? I'll be back later,but till then this should clearly show some severe flaws
@fedupalready19 cont i call my son first born not first created. so paul did it correctly. even though my son was created first by my husband and I. (and God) but I don't intruduce him as "this is my first created". see the point?
@fedupalready19 Well , Jesus is not just a creature as you say, but the Son of the living God. he is called a god in the bible. But he is not THE God. For Jesus tells us to give worship to his father. Jesus himself even said for what he does is not his will but the will of the one who sent me. He served his father, THE God as well. The Watchtower doesn't teach anything about being a "jr partner". but the bible does teach that Jesus was first born, created through God, not out of being God.
@shihtzufizzers - If God created Jesus then explain John 1:1 in the NWT "In the bng was the Word (Jesus) and the Word was with God.. it does not say God created Jesus - it says "In the beginning was the Word" I've read all the argumnts on Jesus being "god" and so on,,, but you dont even need to go on with the first verse, its very simple "In the bng was the Word, and the Word was with God" think about it.
The scripture you referenced from Prov 8 is taking about wisdom not the creation of Jesus
@mtavarez4561 If you look at a child and it grows up, does it not have the same standards,value, even expressions as it's parents? Well think of how many years, aeons of years Jesus was in heaven with his father. so calling Jesus the word means he is a reflection of his father. same Ideas, traits, standards, values. IF you look at ALL scriptures, because 2tim tells us ALL scriputes are inspired, we see that Jesus admits he is not God. for it is his father.
@ - bty- the W/T has the name and address of ALL the JW's that sold their homes, biz,, money,assets, ....ect... so to state the obvious, the Lord has not returned yet, so why not give these things back to these people already??? afterall the reason for liquidating was b/c the Lord was to come and their would be no need, well, there is now obviously a need!!! Again, why not give back or aleast offer to gv back what was given?? How can you spk of fuit of the spirt and JW's in the same sentence?
@mtavarez4561 first of all. the GB does not own the homes. ppl made their own decision to sell or whatever they did. never were they told to do it. ppl. need to be reposonsible for their own actions. how can someone give back to someone something they do not have. NEVER did the GB tell anyone to do this. ppl made up there own conclusion and did it themselves. Certian ones did get over zealous. My mom was there and remembers it quite well . Sorry not the GB at all it was individual ppl choices
@shihtzufizzers -- Well i hv to disagree, my Mom and Dad remember it quite well as a matter of fact as it was explained, there would be no longer be a need for material things, those who were not quite sure, or those who did not quite buy in all the way were looked at as weak in their faith,and no one wanted to be looked at as weak in their faith, so you call it over zealous, but it was the NORM.
you say no one was told to do it but that is in itself a very harsh thing to say!!.......
@shihtzufizzers - .....(cont) its harsh to say b/c on one hand no one was commanded but everyone felt obligated and of coarse what would be the purpose for ppl in the WT to say "there is no longer a need for material things? What would be the purpose for saying this if were not to persuade ppl to sell everything and gv it? And if the W/T no longer had a persons home its obvious since the Lord never came that they still would have need of some where to live--the W/t can still gv back,,,,,
@shihtzufizzers -....(cont) what was gven, it is the only right thing to do!!! You talk abt ppl being responsible for their actions, but you exclude the Watchtower from having to be responsible for their actions. Why?
@mtavarez4561 cont I wil not converse with one an apostate for the bible tells us they are satans children. So go make your dad happy ok. I know the bible I do not have to explain it to you for you know it but you choose not to listen. If anyone who really wants to know I am happy to help. as for apostate they are a waste of time. (pearls (gods word) to swine (apostates) they don't understand the beauty.
@mtavarez4561 explained this all ready too. You lie about things. no one felt obligated a few were over zealous and yes I knew some too. but how do you explain the Many upon many who did not. If it was obligated course don;t you think a lot more would of done this? I have answered your ? you just don';t like the answers. good day, and good bye
@shihtzufizzers - first of all you did not answer the question if the "Word was in the beginnning with God then how do the Jw;s teach falsely that God created Jesus? you never answered this. also if the W/T prophets are not inspired prophets then what kind of Prophets are they? Call them what you want - but according to God's word you are in disobedience by continuing to listen to them.
@shihtzufizzers - you also fail to addrss my other questions- again if a true Prophet speaks the mind of God then why were the so called prophets of the watchtower wrong several several times - and why do you still listen to them in spite of the bible s instruction NOt to Listen to them????
Also - the Bible states in John 1:1 "In the beginng was the Word and the Word was with God. --- this means God did not create the Word as Jw's preach- the JW doctrine is falty and you wont or cnt anser me!!
@mtavarez4561 well according to your comments you are nothing more than an apostate. as for being a prophet i all ready told you no where do we ever claimed to be inspired prophets. And I have mentioned sciptures showing ones would be zealous in there intreptation like in Hababaak. God knew this would happen but he tells us don;t be mislead his day will come. as for John 1:1 look up the word Theos. its greek it will help you understand the placement of God and god.
@shihtzufizz ...and what did i lie about? Pretty strong accusation. Just because not everybody sold their home or biz did not mean that everybody was not under tremendous obligation, and this obligation was b/c of the W/t false and reckless behaviour that they still have not taken responsibiity for.
Your no better than these ppl that you defend, You say you ansred my ? but that i dont like your anser - what a joke and a cop out! i would have expected more from a JW --
@mtavarez4561 I think your communication has been less about what this video is about and more about your contempt for this persons belief system. I would be glad for this endless bickering to stop. it is degenerating into name calling. I appreciated your initial response to my caution. I saw that a message was spamed. this had happened to your responses that contained your argument and I unspamed them. the last was more of what I hoped would not happen. your anger has been noted. end it please.
@fleetwd1 - in all fairness, what name calling hv i done? other than being called an Apostate, i looked through the notes and cant see where i called this person any names, i will agree with you that both of our converstions (shih and mine) hv been less abt this vid and more abt the diff in our belief systems. But it takes 2 -
As for this video - i feel sorry for people who feel sorry ppl like me for beliving in literal Hell. Because there is a real and literal Hell whether......
@mtavarez4561 I am aware of who did the name calling. that message was spamed not by me but after reading it I did not unspam it as I had yours. Yours was unspamed because you had arguments worthy of being read in spite of someone not liking them. The name calling does not deserve to be unspamed. I had not warned them as I had you. You were close to doing that but you stopped and apologized. I commended you for that. I am asking you to stop now because it has gotten out of hand.
@mtavarez4561 (Cont) There are many fine Christians who have held to the Traditional view of Hell. It is not regarded as an issue by which your salvation depends. None of those connected with this YT channel are JWs. Both Edward and Des are fine scholars each have two books with forwards by the late FF Bruce. FF Bruce wrote the forward to the book that this video is but a small fraction of. I suggest you study more and leave your crusade against JWs alone.
@fleetwd1 - thanks for your opion- remember, it takes 2 to argue a point as shih and i were both a part of. Shih's point of veiw had no more to do with your video as mine, yet i am the one that is being told to stop, thats fine, i think both points were well taken in spite of all, and being what it is, my ?'s were stlll never answered---- over all, that in itself tells me alot.
@mtavarez4561 You think I am singling you out, but I had asked her to stop and she did, immediately. You were asked but you could not let it let it go. Everyone else had already moved on. After they had moved on, you tried starting it up again. If you have a beef with her, keep it to yourselves. Do not bring it to my channel. Keep your interaction respectful and you will not have these problems. I unspamed your posts. I did not unspam hers. You still don't think I am fair? Okay your opinion.
@fedupalready19 Your right there is no other God, but there are gods. even satan in the bible is called a god. But not God. see the difference? Jehovah =all mighty. Jesus =mighty. satan well he is the god of this world. that is why when he tempted Jesus and offered him all the kingdoms of the world for one act or worship to him. He could offer them for they were his. But Jesus tells us we should only worship who? Jehovah God
@shihtzufizzers So by your own admission you are a "polytheist" or to be more exact a "henotheist" meaning you have One Supreme God and a lesser god. This is paganism and sounds like the belief of the acient Babylonians. They had "Anu" their Supreme God who presided over lesser gods. According to John 17:3 how may true Gods are there ?If there is only 1 true God "Jehovah", all other gods must be false right ?
@fedupalready19 I admitted nothing. I pointed out what the bible states. don't be upset with me, take it up with God and why he says his son is a god. yet he is the all mighty God. its in the bible. so you see, nothing I have stated is my own words but facts from Gods word, sounds like you need to ask for guidance and understanding because you don;t get it. yes John 17:3 ONe true God. and the one he sent forth. 2 beings. I know what it says. One TRUE GOD
@fedupalready19 BTW it has nothing to do with babylonian Gods, they worshiped many Gods, we worship One God, Jehovah, just like his son tells us to. there may be other gods, as the bible points outs. but they are not worshiped by true christians.
@shihtzufizzers Truth is always absolute. Meaning it either is or isn't. Truth doesn't become ambiguious depending on certain subjects. Your own NWT calls Jesus a god in John 1:1. Therefore, is Jesus a true God or a false god ?
@fedupalready19 This is going in circles, we are done, AGAIN, he is the son of the True God, simple as that. Worship in Greek is pro.sky.ne'o. used to desigante the custom of prostrating oneself before a person and kiss the feet,hem a garment ect. this term is used in matth.14:33 for obediance toward jesus. & heb 1:6 the angels worship Jesus. not worship as you understand but a custom of the day. so this might confuse you. but it helps show again Jesus as Gods son. Jesus is Gods son,
@fedupalready19 cont. lower case "g" in john 1:1 but I hope you would know too that greek writings and translations of nouns have shown that this shows jesus is not God himself. it has to do w/ greek language of having definie article appearing before the first occurrance but not after the 2nd occurance. 1st occurance "theos" = God but does not appear after the second occurance. that is god=Jesus. So the word is god like.
@shihtzufizzerNeither one of us are Greek scholars, so let's not go there,the point I've made is clear and you have not answered it. Either Jesus is a true God or a false god period. I agree, it is time to end this.I hope some seeds have been planted. But I'd like to wish you the best and hope Jehovah God richly blesses you with the knowledge of the REAL JESUS. Take care, okay.
@shihtzufizzersDo you have Jehovah God's approval for your life?Are you complying with Jehovah God's arrangement ?Are you good enough for Eternal Life ?How can you honor Jehovah if you are not giving Jesus the same honor as the Father ?Matt 17:5 "This is my Son....whom I have approved listen to him" Jesus said "and yet YOU would not come to me that YOU might have life John 5:40
@nucreationjc I only hope I am serving Jehovah to the best of my ability and he see's this. As for giving Jesus honor, well of course, just as he told us to. He is gods son! Taking in knowledge of him and the one he sent forth (john 17:3) So we must learn about both. and Jesus tells us to give praise to his father. even by the model prayer. "Let YOUR name be sactified, Let YOUR kingdom come. showing we put God first. Jesus gave us examples of how we are to honor his father.
@shihtzufizzersAccording to John 5:39,40,is knowledge of scripture sufficient for salvation?What does Jehovah God require according to this passage?Whose garment are you wearing?Yours or Christ's?Isaiah 64:6 tells us"all our acts of righteousness are like a garment for periods of menstration".Have you asked Jesus for the garment only He can provide?How will you survive armageddon?Jehovah has set forth His arrangement for His system of things,Matt. 22:11-13 tells our fate without His garment.
@nucreationjc cont. Jesus gave us patterns on how to live. We should try to follow his footsteps closely, We can not follow them exactly for he was perfect and we are not. Jesus told us it is his father we must render sacred service, It is God who approved of his son. so yes, listen to Jesus and give worship to his father.
Edward is currently working on a 3rd revision of The Fire That Consumes. It should be available this Summer. For anyone interested in what the bible teaches on the subject this book is a must. Edward and I do not think having the right view on this subject determines ones salvation. However many who oppose the view claim God's word teaches what they believe. Edward deals fairly and even handedly. His arguments have not been dealt with. Those who oppose him use the same arguments he's dealt with.
Hi fleet. I purchased Edward Fudge's book, "The Fire That Consumes" about a year ago. How can I tell what revision I have? How can I tell whether it is Revision 1, or Revision 2? And also, how will I know how to go about purchasing Revision 3 once it is released?
@Lysimachus78 The original is 500 pages. It was published in1982 with a forward by FF Bruce. A 2nd Revision was released in Briton with fewer pages. The 3rd Revision is at the publisher and will be released by June 2011. The new edition of The Fire That Consumes is being published by Cascade Books, the academic/theological division of Wipf and Stock Publishers. It has a foreword by Professor Richard Bauckham of the University of Cambridge, formerly of the University of St. Andrews, Scotland.
@Lysimachus78 The Briton 2nd Revision was made for Europe only. The 3rd Revision is expanded and is already being advertised by the new publisher Wipf and Stock under forthcoming titles Cascade Books Division on-line.
Edward writes: "Throughout the new edition, updated after 29 years, I interact with 17 traditionalist authors of 12 other books written in response to the first (and, to a lesser extent, the second, British) edition of TFTC.
I wanted to thank you kindly for your generous and informative response! Thank you very much, it was helpful, and I'm looking forward to purchasing the new upcoming Revision this June. Blessings!
Bible tells us that the dead are conscience of nothing. and that God is love. so how can one burn in hell? Hell, sheol, hades, all words from ancient time meaning common grave of mankind simple as that. the dead feel nothing. And payment for sin is death. if so, why would one cont to be punished. sin has been paid. when something burns w/ fire it is completely destroyed. therefore fire= desctruction not torture.
@shihtzufizzers - you mis interpret things of the bible the way you want to hear them - Ecc. 9 : 5 does say the dead are concious of nothing - this is talking about the body -- look at chapter 3 :10 tells us that God appoints an everlasting spirit in every mans heart- dont be fooled by this teaching - this is Satan at its best to deceive.
@mtavarez4561 The Hebrew word for spirit and the greek word for spirit are two different meanings. Hebrew word for spirit means life force. Greeek means angelic creatures. so stil it would mean the life force or body knows nothing after death. Think of this. IF heaven was such a blissful place, why did Jesus have pity over Lazarus death and bring him back to Life? Would not that be cruel if he was in heaven?
@shihtzufizzers - listen, i wont argue w/ you abt this, the bible talks more about Hell than it does heaven, Jesus gave several parablles speaking of hell has hot and a place that burns !!!! if you choose to ignore this then ok but dont drag people there with you!!! "Lean NOT on your own understanding" you may think it was cruel for Jesus to raise Lazarus if he was in heaven, thats your understanding but it does not make it so --- trust Gods Word!!!!!!
@mtavarez4561 In the bible, it even speaks of Jesus going to hell. why would he go there if it is a place of torment? why did Job ask to go there when he was suffering? fire= complete destruction. not torment. think of a house burning. Why would a god of love torment someone for eternity for 80 -+ years of sin? In romans the payement for sin is death. When you die you have paid for your sins. why would there be any cont. punishment. look up the words sheol and hades in greek and hebrew.
@mtavarez4561 BTW, I am not wanting to argure,I did not think we were. sorry if you felt this way. I thought we were having a conversation. I am not trying to convert you in any way. but showing you through the bible what is being said. I have not misintreped anything, I have looked up what certain words mean when translated from the anceint writings till now. I hope you learn and cont to have love for god. Always and truly seek the truth. take care
@shihtzufizzers - you must be a JW all of them have drank the "there's no hell" koolaid-- i suppose Jesus is the Archangel Michael? Pls, dont try to sell this to me!!!
@mtavarez4561 Jude 9 "But when Mi´cha·el the archangel had a difference with the Devil and was disputing about Moses’ body, he did not dare to bring a judgment against him in abusive terms, but said: “May Jehovah rebuke you. Michael = to be like God. Jesus is called Michael. + the archangel is never plural meaning only one. archangel is used 5 x in the bible. Rev 12:7-12 speaks of Michael and HIS angels war against satan. Reasonably, Michael is the archangel
@shihtzufizzers - Michael the archangel said "May the Lord rebuke you" --- the point is, the archangel needed to call on the name of the Lord to rebuke Satan, if he was Jesus he would not have to do that--- think about it!!
@shihtzufizzers ---who did Jesus say that he was ? -Matthew 16:15-16 15"But what about you?" he asked. "Who do you say I am?" 16Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."
Jesus did not correct him, in fact look at how Jesus responds:
@mtavarez4561 As for who Jesus was, here are a few scriptures Col 1:15 IMAGE of the living God, (not God himself) Prov 8:22-31 goes into when he (jesus) what he saw, and how things came about. It shows that Jesus was created. therefore Not God not the Alpha and the Omega. One must take all scriptures not just some to learn about God and his son (2 Tim 3:16,17) All Scpritures are inspired for us to learn ect.
@shihtzufizzers - thnks for the response- but proverbs 8 talks about wisdom - read the whole chapter! Not talking about Jesus being God's first creation, rather is talking about wisdom--- if this is how you interpret scriptr, then that explains much. - however i do see your point of view when it comes to the trinity, there are scriptures that point out God and Jesus not the same as well as scripture pointing out that they are the same!!! although we will have to disagre i see your point.
20 But we know that the Son of God has come, and he has given us intellectual capacity that we may gain the knowledge of the true one. And we are in union with the true one, by means of his Son Jesus Christ, This is the true God and life everlasting.
Your bible even states that Jesus Christ is the true God!!! READ IT!!!!
@mtavarez4561 ISA44:6"This is what Jehovah has said, the King of Israel and the Repurchaser of him, Jehovah of armies, ‘I am the first and I am the last, and besides me there is no God. God says: there is no other God besides me. plan and simple. Jesus is in union with God, same traits, standards, values. He has his personality. Just as a child can be like there parents, how much more for Jesus to be like his father who he spent aeons with in heaven.
@shihtzufizzers I find it interesting that in"Should you believe in the trinity",31 pages are spent trying to tell us who Jesus is not,but not once is it mentioned who they believe He is.There is plenty of opportunity to identify Him as Michael. Shouldn't His "correct" name (Michael),be proclaimed from the housetops? Perhaps the name was removed by some old paganized church father.An example might be as follows Paul really said "to live is Michael the Archangel and to die is gain"in Phil. 1:21.
@mtavarez4561 it says that Jesus is his SON. first of Gods creation. Jesus gave us knowledge of who? the 1 true God, How many? 1. So Jesus taught us of his father, the one true God, thru which we may have everlasting life. God gave Jesus superior power to rule. Yet his is not the all mighty, in fact Jesus told us to pray, OUR father in heaven, let YOUR name be sactified. So Jesus was on earth. where is his father? In heaven, who's name Gods name. not his
@shihtzufizzers - First of all - you brought Jude 9 to my attn which talks abt Michael the Archangel using the Lord to rebuke Satan, the question i have for you is this: If Jesue and Michael/ Archangel are the same, then why did Michael need to use the Lord to rebuke Satan? and why did you state in one of your latest posts that "reasonably Michael and Jesue are the same" -- why becase Michael / Archangel used the Lord to rebuke Satan -- that would not make any sense - pls expln yourself.
@shihtzufizzers --- jw's always try to say God and Jesus in the same union but Rev 22:13 pretty much takes care of that one along with about 1/2 dozen others that you did not address in your last post to me.
i address Jude 9 with you but you dont address any of the scripture that i gave to you - even coming from the jw bible-- which is NOT even the true bible !!!!!!!
major tops , deity of Christ, existence of hell, ..... minimized in the NWT -- its a shame!!!!
@shihtzufizzers -John 1 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word WAS God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. . 14The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only,[d] who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
@mtavarez4561 John 1:1 you many want to look up the greek meaning,I am sending you a personal message so maybe you can understand it more clearly. it is not Greek grammer has alot to do w/ this. with the correct understanding, the Jesus was the word, because he is just like his father in heaven, He multiple times says he is not equal to his father. I hope this helps
6 For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor,MIGHTY GOD, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
@shihtzufizzers ---- B4 you attempet to answer anymore of my questions - (jude 9)tell me why Michael / Archangel needed to call on the name of the Lord to rebuke Satan? --- if he was Jesus (as the JW's say) then he wld not need to call on the name of the Lord to rebuke Satan ---- answer please!!!!
@mtavarez4561 Jesus often did things to honor his father. it is not through him but hes father. yes Jesus had the power to do it, but he gloried his father. simple as that.
@shihtzufizzers The Watchtower Michael/Jesus doctrine is as strange as it is illogical. If Jehovah recreated His Son as Michael again at the resurrection, and implanted the memories of the first Michael and Jesus' memories into the new Michael's brain and because life forces are impersonal as the August 8, 1978 Awakes states on pg.27 (using electricity and appliances as a description), than apparently Jesus and Michael are no more the same person than a stove or a fan are the same appliance.
@fedupalready19 Lets stick w/ the bible ok? you mention alot of stuff from the 70s and just like a child learns more as he goes to school, so God gives us update info per his Holy spirit. for Hab 2:3 states"For [the] vision is yet for the appointed time, and it keeps panting on to the end, and it will not tell a lie. Even if it should delay, keep in expectation of it; for it will without fail come true. It will not be late. So we see here that God tells us everything he tells us has a time (cont
@shihtzufizzers - the scriptr you reference in Hab2:3 is not an excuse for false prophets. I do beleive we shld still expect Christ to come, but no man knows when, 5 times the so called prophets at the Watchtower were wrong.---- and you make excuses for them!!!!!
@mtavarez4561 for one we NEVER said we are inspired prophets. the truth is,or the prophecy is that Gods day is coming, that has not changed, just the understanding of it. Just like when you are in school a child learns in more depth of a teaching. same here. so Yes nothing false has been said, the day of Jehovah is coming. Your are right the bible says no one knows. Dates mentioned, just where not understood, as for a false prophet they are known by their fruits as mentioned in matt. cont
@shihtzufizzers .....(cont) that equals false prophets! your trying to equate this to what a child learns in school and as they grow they get smarter... WRONG not so with a True Prophet b/c a True Prophet speaks the mind of God and Jehovah God is not WRong!!! EVER!!!! ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,so again you side on the side of error and make excuses for it , and no matter how much Love, Joy, or Peace a JW may or may not show, their doctrine is still in error!!!
@mtavarez4561 look at what the fruits are. love, joy peace, long suffering, self control ect. but the fruits of many are the oppistite, many religions kill in the name of God. kill there own brother. You can tell the true faith, by ones works. I do not make excuses for anyone, you say that because you do not really understand what the bible teaches. remove the vale off you eyes, and look at what religion is doing in the name of God, looks bad huh? who doesn't do these things? JW's!
@shihtzufizzers - thanks for your reply - however you still eloquently dance around the issues, I asked you abt John 1:1 "in the beg was the Word (Jesus) and that word was with God from the beginning, so God did not create Jesus as the JW's preach, you have not answerd to this - also regrding false preditions - i agree with you - the day of the lord is at hand so that still remains, and you dont have to be a JW to know that, but there have been several false preditions -- that equals ....
@fedupalready19 pt 2. and to keep expecting it, it will not fail. So one must continue learning for even God knows that some things once learned will become better understood as time goes on. He knew this would happen. So as for your info. look at 1thes 4:16because the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice and with God’s trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first. Lord (jesus) come down w/ archangels voice.
@shihtzufizzers If the reference to the archangels voice in 1 Thes. 4:16 makes the Lord Jesus an archangel, then to be consistent doesn't having God's trumpet make Jesus God ? If Jesus is the first and highest of all created beings, and if Jesus was Michael the Archangel in His prehuman state then why is Michael called "one of the chief princes" in Daniel 10:13 ? Doesn't this indicate that Michael is one among equals ? What scriptures in the bible does Jesus tell us He is only a created being ?
@shihtzufizzers - earlier i tld you abt all of the false predictions the Watchtower has made with regards to Jesus return, a prohet speaks the mind of God, was God wrong ? Well if God was not wrong then the Watchtower was, and if they were wrong then God says not listen to them any longer. So why are you still in disobedience by listening to these ppl who claim to be prophets of God??
@mtavarez4561 This person keeps trying to evade the point you are making about the Watchtower Michael/Jesus doctrine which is not only ridiculous, but as you have rightly pointed out not biblical in the least.
@mtavarez4561 According to the Watchtower,The only connection between Jesus and Michael the Archangel is the "impersonal life force" that Jehovah implanted in each. And when a person ceases to exist this life force leaves his body as the July 22, 1979 Awake states. According to them, Jesus is dead and gone forever and so is the first Michael; while the newly created Michael gets all the glory and put forth no effort. The new Michael never suffered and died for us,but only has an implanted memory
@fedupalready19 - thanks for the support - i will admit i dont know alot about what the JW's believe but as educated as shihtzufizzers appears , He/ She does not make sense. And i never got a straight anser so far. Thats too bad.
The whole religion sounds twisted to me. I hope they will contact me again, maybe they will shed some light on these issues.
@mtavarez4561 YEs, please, next time a JW speaks to you, please ask them ?'s I hope you receive your answers. YOutube is not the best place for answers and these boxs are limited in space. I hope you find what you are looking for. I am sorry if I do not make sense. If you do not want to wait for them to call on you, call your local Kingdom hall and ask someone to come see you. I wish you the best
@shihtzufizzers -Coloss 2: 8-10 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ. 9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; 10 and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power.
@mtavarez4561 "20.But we know that the Son of God has come, and he has given us intellectual capacity that we may gain the knowledge of the true one. And we are in union with the true one, by means of his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and life everlasting. Yes it does show who Jesus is (son of God) and through Jesus (in union w/ God) we learn about his Father, so we may have everlasting life.
@shihtzufizzers Sorry previous answer was from 1 john which you brought up. It co insides wtih John 17:3 "This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ. So we must take in knowledge of BOTH Jesus and his father Jehovah. two separate beings. Jesus came to earth to give us direction so we try to follow his footsteps closely. You quote scriptures well, but take them with others and I think it will do you good.
@shihtzufizzers - let me just share one more thing abt the "New Light" --- it should not matter from what year anything is put out, it shld always hold true, NO MATTER WHAT! I have listened to sermons from John Mcarther from 35 yrs ago and they are as true now as they were then!!! I think you are fooling yourself to think otherwise--- lets stop making excuses for these false prophets / teachers of God.
@mtavarez4561 God must of known that we may not understand everthing at once. it would be too much for us. the fact is the major teaching has never changed. In fact in Hab 1:3 it says "For [the] vision is yet for the appointed time, and it keeps panting on to the end, and it will not tell a lie. Even if it should delay, keep in expectation of it; for it will without fail come true. It will not be late. shows us that it will have an appointed time,keep expecting it, for it will come.
@mtavarez4561 Please do not take the wrong way, i am only showing you through Gods word. Just take that and see what you can see for yourself. Ask ?'s, talk to JW's, find out yourself. I only wish you the best, and am very happy you are interested in learning about God and his son. Keep it up, it is worth it. take care
@shihtzufizzers As I stated earlier I'm not wishing to quarrel with you or anyone, however I will contend for the faith. You brought uo Prov.8:22 in an attempt to show Jesus is created. Have you ever read the context of Prov. chapters 1-9. It is very common in Hebrew poetry to use abstract illustrations. In this case "wisdom" is personified.According to 1:20,21, wisdom is an it that cries out, and in 8:12 resides with someone named shrewdness.
@shihtzufizzers cont. Proverbs 8- If "wisdom" in Proverbs 8 is referring to Christ and if "wisdom" in Proverbs 8 is the same "wisdom" as in the 1st 9 chapters of Proverbs as the context clearly indicates, then who is this shrewdness person Christ resides with in vs.12?Do you believe Christ is an "it" who cries out ?Proverbs1:20,21 If "wisdom" had a beginning, doesn't this mean that Jehovah God did not have "wisdom" until a certain point when He aquired it ?What kind of God is that ?
@shihtzufizzers - as far as the Watchtwer - and all the "New Light" -- lets be fair, there have been at least 5 false prophesies put out by the Watchtower regarding Jesus's return - what does the bible say about this? - i think you know, and we shld not listen, to or be afraid of ANY Watchtower prophets, that is according to God's word. Slice it anyway you want, but it goes against the bible to listen to false prophets!!!
8 Philip said to him: “Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.”
9 Jesus said to him: “Have I been with you men so long a time, and yet, Philip, you have not come to know me? He that has seen me has seen the Father [also]. How is it you say, ‘Show us the Father’?
do you see even what your own bible says about who Jesus is?
@mtavarez4561 Yes Jesus did say if you seen me you have seen the father. they have a bond, a perfect bond. They are in union just like I have said before, a child can show the same traits as his parents, so jesus does his father. for Jesus admits they are not equal. after all why would jesus if god have to come to earth to prove himself faithful to himself? 1cor 8:5,6 show us Jehovah is unique, no one else shares his position. 1 God 1 Father.
@shihtzufizzers - 1 John 5 6This is the one who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ. He did not come by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth. 7For there are three that testify: 8the[a] Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.
@mtavarez4561 Phil 2:5-11 shows us that Jesus exits in gods form and the Father has commanded that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend, BUT all this is done to the glory of God the father. God exalted him to a superior postion. showing that God is all mighty, and God gave Jesus a postion, still under God though.
@shihtzufizzers -- the next question i have for you is why do NOT respond to Any of the scripture that i shared with you conserning Jesus Diety? let's just take them one at a time : this is what Jesus says about who he is;
Revelation 22:13 “I AM the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End
This does not sound like someone who is in 'perfect union w/ the Father.
@mtavarez4561 Yep, he who has seen Jesus has seen his father by traits, compasion, love. Ones who have seem my daughter have seen me, why because I raised her. only for a few yrs compared to how long Jesus was w/ his father in heaven. so of course they can be two peas in a pod per say.
@mtavarez4561 I did not say it was cruel. but if he was in heaven and in a blissful state it would of been. Jesus told lazaruz to "wake up" like he was asleep. Look at the incident again. It hurt Jesus his friend was dead, He showed us compassion for man. He also showed us he can resurecced the dead. why did he have to show us that? becuase it will be done again. This is not my words but the bible. I have looked at it and research many areas. I do trust Gods word thru many years of study.
@mtavarez4561 Yes, satan does deceive. but ask yourself why did jesus have to come to earth to die for us? Adam and eve were created to live forever in paradise. Satan messed that up. But the bible says god does not change. so his purpose has not changed. just taking a detour. Yes the earth will be a paradise. Ones will be resureccted to life again. to live forever. Why do we prolong our life by going to the drs. if we were meant to die? Just something to ponder?
@mtavarez4561 To be fair to God's word you misquote Eccl 3:11 (not Eccl 3:10) you add the word spirit to everlasting. I have looked at 7 different translations and 1 original Hebrew text and none have the word spirit which you added. I think you are trying to support an unsupportable view of the immortality of the soul. This doctrine is foreign to scripture. Edward's book The Fire That Consumes that this video is a but a small fraction deals with the subject very thoughtfully and thoroughly.
@fleetwd1 - MATTHEW 25:46: "And these will go away into ETERNAL punishment, but the righteous into ETERNAL life."
DANIEL 12:2: "And many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, some to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and EVERLASTING contempt."
MATTHEW 18:8: "...it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than having two hands or two feet, to be cast into the ETERNAL FIRE"
@mtavarez4561 I am not sure why you were spamed for this comment but it was not me. I marked it "not spam." I had seen you sent this comment to yourself earlier. you may have deleted it before sending it to me. I have been gone all day. Your texts here do not speak to your issue. If you watch Edward's videos on the subject (about 14) you may see why I say this.
I do not mind your raising issues or questions. However name calling will not win you respect. It is childish and mean spirited.
@fleetwd1 - i am sorry for any name clling i have done, i looked thru the notes and did not see what names i called anyone but none the less if I hve offended you that was not my intention.
@mtavarez4561 Matt25:46 everlasting punishment ="looping off" or cutting off. greek word :ko'la-sin used in the orignal writings of the greek script. (see Emphatic diaglott for descriptions) When understanding certain ancient words and looking at the first clergy back in the day and why they changed things to benefit themselves, you will see the true meaning of scriptures. Fire= complete destruction, not torture. fire consumes. destroys, not prolong torture.
@mtavarez4561 again, I am not "selling you" anything, just pointing out facts in the bible. whether it be the orginal greek scriptures, up to todays. Many Greek words have meaning translated differently to today, but once understood, you will get a better understanding. not my words, but Gods word the bible.
@shihtzufizzers -- You say that Jesus was Michael the Archangel.
Who did Jesus say he was?
Listen to what Jesus himself says in Revelation 22:13 “13I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End
Revelation 21:6 6He said to me: "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To him who is thirsty I will give to drink without cost from the spring of the water of life.
@mtavarez4561 Rev 21:13 is not Jesus but Jehovah God. He is the alpha and the Omega. Rev1:8"“I am the Al´pha and the O·me´ga,” says Jehovah God, “the One who is and who was and who is coming, the Almighty. any where in the bible where there is LORD or GOD, those replaced Gods name in early clergy days because they thought it would be wrong to say Gods name even though in James it tell us differently. so Jehovah replaces LORD. therefore God. (see Isa 44:6)
@shihtzufizzersRev.1:7 says someone who is pierced is coming(obviously Jesus) and 8 says Jehovah God is coming.Are they both coming? In 1:8 Jehovah God is the Alpha and the Omega,but Rev. 22:12-13 says "look I am coming quickly...I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last..."So Jehovah God is coming quickly. But wait 22:20 says"Yes I am coming quickly."Amen! Come Lord Jesus".Who's speaking in 2:8?"...the Firs
"Hell" should not have been used in the tranlation of the bible. The word has pagan origin.. confuses people. God is not going to allow our souls to be tortued. Romans 6:23... Sheol and Hades are the common grave.. Gehenna is symbolic for complete destruction. Hell is another pagan belief that has been intertwined with "false" christianity just liked christmas, haloween, and other pagan rituals and beliefs. Research!
relefordnation 1 month ago
@relefordnation you are correct. We use Hell in titling since "the ultimate destiny of the wicked" is more wordy and will not fit the youtube limitations. We do recognize the latter is more accurate. Edward titles his book with the longer more accurate choice of words. Thanks for your comment.
fleetwd1 1 month ago
O spiritually dead one @PUREAIRSOLUTIONS, you who profess to be a son of the most High, here is an example of your "love" for your brother that you posted on 552K's Youtube Channel, and I quote, "You cunt face little prick.I'll beat your worthless head in with a bat!!!!!!!! Little prick. What a loser.Bet your mother still has the scum stain of your birth Let me smash your face in to shut you up" "For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned." Matthew 12:37
Rylucero 1 month ago
I'm confused. Why is it that Fudge's "Third Edition" that just came out have less pages than his previous edition?
His 1982 edition has 504 pages (I have it), but his new Third Edition has 442 pages.
How can there be additional material in here? How is that even possible? It would seem to be less!
Lysimachus78 4 months ago
@Lysimachus78 Edward had told me the print is smaller so they are getting more on the page. I have the original hard bound Verdict published and several of the print on demand 1st edition. The 3rd edition does have extra new material. I have read much of the new but I have not compared to see if anything was dropped. I would be interested to know if you find out.
fleetwd1 4 months ago
fleetwood you can disagree all you want but you are grabbing at straws, Pureairsolutins is correct, and only the foolish will say that the Bible is symbalic when talking about hell, i hope God will open your eyes, satan has done a fantasic job at clouding the minds of Christians PureAir is correctly told you from Gods word and you and others on this site wont see it ---- its a sad thing!!!!
I know you will respond but think about it b4 you do!!
mtavarez4561 6 months ago
@mtavarez4561 If you are interested in learning, and I leave that up to you to decide for yourself, I have posted 2 resent audio podcast links on my channel. The 1st link is Edward's Synopsis of his 3rd edition of The Fire That Consumes. The 2nd link has Edward answering common objections raised by the interviewer. The issues raised by Pureairsolutins are dealt with on the 2nd link. Unlike your insinuation of satanic blindness toward those who differ with you, I have no such thought toward you.
fleetwd1 6 months ago
@mtavarez4561 By the way, I have these podcasts listed on my channel in 2 places on About Me: the links work, on Channel Comments: you will have to copy and paste the link into your web browser.
fleetwd1 6 months ago
Thanks for posting this video. Edward is very versed on the subject. While I don't agree with all of his viewpoints, he work is based on solid bible study.
hellburnshot 7 months ago
@hellburnshot glad you like it. His 3rd Edition book of The Fire That Consumes is out and is making everyone interested in the subject take notice.
fleetwd1 7 months ago
@fleetwd1 No doubt, that is what brought me here. I'm in the middle of reading it right now, which is taking a lot of time. I'm amazed at how in-depth it is. I'm hoping to have it finished by the end of next week and a review to be posted that following week.
hellburnshot 7 months ago
@hellburnshot sounds great! Let me know.
They are making a movie about Edward and what he went through over this issue. You can find out about it on YouTube HellandMrFudgemovie They have some behind the scenes video and first look shots. There are short clips you may find interesting. They wrapped up shooting and the movie is do out in 2012. Some of the story is based on his testimony which I have video on my channel too. I find it quite interesting. Embracing truth is often a challenge.
fleetwd1 7 months ago
PureAirSolutions 8 months ago
@PureAirSolutions Jn 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son that whosoever believe on him should not perish. Now are you saying perish does not mean perish but instead it means to be kept alive forever to be tortured? You do not want to take at face value the many plain texts that say the wicked die, perish, or will be destroyed. I do not know how you reconcile death with not dying, perish with not perishing and destruction with not being destroyed at all.
fleetwd1 8 months ago
@PureAirSolutions Many of the texts you list here teach that the wicked die, perish or are destroyed. Something you seem to deny. Read them in context.
fleetwd1 8 months ago
@fleetwd1 Well then, in contest, lets go back to Revelation 20:10, "and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever."
When all the texts on hell are put together, then the picture is clear. We cannot leave out some texts on hell without looking at those texts that do speak of eternal torment that lasts forever as well.
PureAirSolutions 8 months ago
@PureAirSolutions You seem like an intelligent fellow who has a fine business serving the needs of many with pure air solutions. Since you want to go back to old arguments I assume you are tired. I wish you well.
fleetwd1 8 months ago
@PureAirSolutions O spiritually dead one, you who speak of love, yet show none, He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now. 1 John 2:9 But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes. 1 John 2:11Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15
Rylucero 1 month ago
@PureAirSolutions O spiritually dead one, the scriptures speak to the vanity of fools, despicable dogs such as yourself, They conceive mischief, and bring forth vanity, and their belly prepareth deceit. Job 15:35 Let not him that is deceived trust in vanity: for vanity shall be his recompence. Job 15:31 His mouth is full of cursing and deceit and fraud, under his tongue is mischief and vanity. Psalm 10:7
Rylucero 1 month ago
"And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name." Revelation 14:11
This is clear enough. Hell and eternal torture IS taught in the New Testament.
PureAirSolutions 8 months ago
@PureAirSolutions Bravo! The two texts you cite are the only two that come closest to affirming unending conscious torment. The problem is you want to take these at face value (literally) while scores of other texts that contradict these are in plain text passages not symbolic ones as these two clearly are.
Is this what you really want as your hermeneutic? Apocalyptic passages taken as literal and interpreting the dozens of plain texts that contradict them? Ignorance is a matter of opinion.
fleetwd1 8 months ago
@fleetwd1 The problem is you do not want to accept the obvious meanings of those texts and I might add, there are plenty of other texts contrary to what you say that affirm hell is conscious, lasts forever and eternal, the fire is never quenched, the smoke of the torment rises forever, there is no rest day or night. The FACT there is "no rest day or night" proves that the felt torture never ends, otherwise it would be in error to put it that way since if it ended, then there would be rest.
PureAirSolutions 8 months ago
@PureAirSolutions O spiritually dead one, you who have not a heart for God but one of deceit, He that hateth dissembleth with his lips, and layeth up deceit within him. Proverbs 26:24, Frowardness is in his heart, he deviseth mischief continually; he soweth discord. Proverbs 6:14, They conceive mischief, and bring forth vanity, and their belly prepareth deceit Job 15:35, They speak vanity every one with his neighbour, with flattering lips and with a double heart do they speak Psalm 12:2
Rylucero 1 month ago
"And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever." Revelation 20:10 The beast and false prophet are human beings and they are tormented day and night forever and ever. Thats what the text says and thats what the text means. The speaker says it was "greeks" who "invented" this concept of eternal torture. As usual, we have another ignorant speaker on stage.
PureAirSolutions 8 months ago
@PureAirSolutions Just as Mary is seen as a woman with child being chased by a Dragon through the heavens, this symbolizes a real literal event that has taken place. It would be foolish to suggest taking this literally. This symbolic text of judgement is based on a literal event of Sodom's destruction. If you go there today, it is still barren from the fire and brimstone that fell but it is not still burning nor does the smoke still rise. The effect of the punishment is eternal not the duration.
fleetwd1 8 months ago
@fleetwd1 Revelation 12:1 is symbolic. Revelation 20:10, Revelation 14:11 are not, they are literal truths. Besides, for Jesus to teach the Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus and use something NOT true like the rich man in fire and tormented would have been wrong to do.
"The Holy Spirit will convict men of sin, righteousness and eternal judgement."
The effect AND duration is eternal. Everlasting fire is not quenched.
"Where their worm dies not, and the fire is not quenched." Mark 9:44
PureAirSolutions 8 months ago
@PureAirSolutions "Wrong to do" in whose opinion? Are you now ready to put your judgment at odds with those of Jesus. Can he not revise a familiar rabbinic parable based not on divine revelation from the OT but from intertestamental writings and folklore to teach his audience a truth about stewardship and responsibility toward the poor? The sneers from his audience attests the truth he uttered had nothing to do with the truth of the familiar story. It was the vehicle, not an endorsement of it.
fleetwd1 8 months ago
Lord of lords, 1Ti 6:16 Who ONLY hath immortality,
Only God has an immortal soul. Not man. Good video.
phillip78 11 months ago 3
@phillip78 correct we have it now by faith only, not inherently as many falsely teach. Our immortality is in Jesus Christ. When He returns this mortal shall put on immortality. Thanks for the comment.
fleetwd1 11 months ago
@fleetwd1 Immortality and everlasting (but still very fragile) life are two different things. One can be killed and the other can not.
It's like if they invented a new medicine that prevents aging. You can still die in a car accident.
delt01 8 months ago
@delt01 I am not sure of what your point is. My point was to affirm Phillip78 comment, "Only God has an immortal soul. Not man." backed up by the text 1Tim 6:16
fleetwd1 8 months ago
@phillip78 Good point. Btw thou needest a moderneth Bibleth =)
delt01 8 months ago
@delt01 What?
phillip78 8 months ago
@phillip78 That is correct! I was baffled when I saw someone's comment on another video like this one. He/she was attacking the video for not believing in eternal torment and went on this tirade saying how no one would die and people had to go to hell because the soul is immortal. I have not found a single verse in the Bible saying that humans have immoral souls. It does, however, say that we ARE souls, not that we have them or that they are separate from our bodies.
CherryFrog321 8 months ago
@CherryFrog321 That is right. When ppl say we have a souls is wrong. Scripture state that we BECAME a living soul. Gen 2:7 I think ppl say we have a immortal soul in just a desperate attempt to uphold eternal torment.
phillip78 8 months ago
Thanks for putting up the Edward Fudge videos. I've included links to these and other videos in a forum on Yourchristianspace, where I find that many are confused on this issue or subscribe to the incorrect traditional view of a burning hell. Fudge sprays plenty of water on the flames of hell and also teaches the correct view of the soul.
DrStevenz 1 year ago 8
@DrStevenz You are more than welcome. I have a playlist that covers all the videos, there are about 14 -10min sections for the complete message. The Book they are based upon Published in 1982 is currently undergoing it's 3rd revision and will be out by Spring or Summer. It was a solid work that is time tested. Edward felt that he needed to address current theological concerns or objections that were not part of the debate at the time of the first publishing.
fleetwd1 1 year ago
@sheechpaw thank you. I send you a private message.
shihtzufizzers 1 year ago
@fedupalready19 It is Gods war that is coming ,yet Jesus will lead himself and the angels to fight the war. I think this is what you are asking.I must admit, these little boxs are sometimes hard to put anything into them.
shihtzufizzers 1 year ago
@shihtzufizzers Since Jesus is clearly claiming to be the First and the Last in Rev 22:12-13 and again in Rev 2:8 and since Isaiah 44:6 records Jehovah God saying "I am the First and the Last; apart from me there is no God". Wat must we conclude about the true identity of Jesus ?
fedupalready19 1 year ago
@fedupalready19 I have pointed out many scriptures where Jesus himself admits he is not equal to God. He tells us he was created, where God has no begining. There is a perfect bond and union between both of them. they have the same traits,ect. When learning greek and hebrew words from the original writings, educating oneself constantly, ones learns the truth. If they were one, why would God have to come to earth to prove himself faithful to himself? Just for starters.
shihtzufizzers 1 year ago
@shihtzufizzers Here is a question for you, since you boast of your knowledge and study. Psalm 102 is a prayer to Jehovah God as verse 1 indicates. Vs. 25-27 clearly describe Jehovah God's unchanging eternal nature compared to His creation which is finite and dependent upon Him. If Jesus is a mere creature as the Watchtower teaches, then doesn't the fact that in Hebrews 1:10-12 where these verses from Psalm 102:25-27 are applied to Jesus indicate an overwhelming contradiction ?
fedupalready19 1 year ago
@fedupalready19 well I just received some info about you, you are a couple other ppl on you tube, like Chris la rock, quest for truth ect. You have a multiple personality disorder, because of how you speak under one name and under another. why? Just be you. You obviously do not want the truth or any answers outside of what you want to hear. So the following is not for you, but anyone who is interested. Please no more replies from you because it is not worth it.
shihtzufizzers 1 year ago
@fedupalready19 For anyone interested in the answer to this and not looking for an argument, I hope this helps. Just like an architech makes blue prints and a carpenter reads and builds from them, same as God and Jesus. they both can be creators. Jehovah made the blue print and Jesus read them and help create. That is why one scripture says towards God and one is toward Jesus. more Scriptures to show that THe two are separate are Col 1:15. and Prov 8:22 (cont)
shihtzufizzers 1 year ago
@fedupalready19 cont - col 1:15 "He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; So Jesus is God image and first of all creation, pretty self explanatory. Prov 8:22 "Jehovah himself produced me as the beginning of his way, the earliest of his achievements of long ago. Again showing Jesus was created and the earliest of his creations. To anyone interested, I hope this helps, if you just want to argue, I won't for that is what satan wants.
shihtzufizzers 1 year ago
@shihtzufizzersFirst of all I don't want to argue, but as a soldier for Christ, I must defend God's message. Also my name is not Chris la rock or whatever else you are saying. In view of the fact that David was the last-born son of Jesse,what do you think scripture means when it calls him the firstborn in Psalm 89:27? Why in Jeremiah 31:9 is Ephraim called firstborn, when in Gen. 41:50,51 it is obvious Manasseh was born first? Why didn't Paul use the term first-created in Col. 1:15 ?
fedupalready19 1 year ago
@fedupalready19 have you ever played hopscotch? because that is what you do with Gods words. You forget ALL scriptures are inspired from him(2Tim 3:16) so Just a quick thought. in the bible when jesus created things the preposion is through , not out of. The son is the one THrough whom God performed the creative works there described by the psalmist. like heb 1:5b is made from 2 sam 7:14 one was for solomon and one for Jesus, but it does not mean solomon & jesus are the same.
shihtzufizzers 1 year ago
@fedupalready19 Ps 89:27 states "Also, I myself shall place him as firstborn,
The most high of the kings of the earth. It says I shall PLACE HIM AS 1st born, not he was the first born, it is a placement. And we know of brothers "selling there birthright of 1st born for food in the bible. So then theantoher child would be considered 1st born in title. There fore still showing with understanding of the scriptures that Col 1:15 holds true. Jesus was first born.
shihtzufizzers 1 year ago
@shihtzufizzers cont. Contrary to this passage teaching that Jesus is a creature, Col 1:16-17 proves His diety. Jehovah says in Isaiah 44:24, I, Jehovah, am the maker of all things, stretching out the heavens by Myself,and spreading out the earth all alone.How do you reconcile this with the watchtower teaching that Jehovah first created Christ and then somehow Christ became a junior partner and created everything else ? I'll be back later,but till then this should clearly show some severe flaws
fedupalready19 1 year ago
@fedupalready19 cont i call my son first born not first created. so paul did it correctly. even though my son was created first by my husband and I. (and God) but I don't intruduce him as "this is my first created". see the point?
shihtzufizzers 1 year ago
@fedupalready19 Well , Jesus is not just a creature as you say, but the Son of the living God. he is called a god in the bible. But he is not THE God. For Jesus tells us to give worship to his father. Jesus himself even said for what he does is not his will but the will of the one who sent me. He served his father, THE God as well. The Watchtower doesn't teach anything about being a "jr partner". but the bible does teach that Jesus was first born, created through God, not out of being God.
shihtzufizzers 1 year ago
@shihtzufizzers - If God created Jesus then explain John 1:1 in the NWT "In the bng was the Word (Jesus) and the Word was with God.. it does not say God created Jesus - it says "In the beginning was the Word" I've read all the argumnts on Jesus being "god" and so on,,, but you dont even need to go on with the first verse, its very simple "In the bng was the Word, and the Word was with God" think about it.
The scripture you referenced from Prov 8 is taking about wisdom not the creation of Jesus
mtavarez4561 1 year ago
@mtavarez4561 If you look at a child and it grows up, does it not have the same standards,value, even expressions as it's parents? Well think of how many years, aeons of years Jesus was in heaven with his father. so calling Jesus the word means he is a reflection of his father. same Ideas, traits, standards, values. IF you look at ALL scriptures, because 2tim tells us ALL scriputes are inspired, we see that Jesus admits he is not God. for it is his father.
shihtzufizzers 1 year ago
@ - bty- the W/T has the name and address of ALL the JW's that sold their homes, biz,, money,assets, ....ect... so to state the obvious, the Lord has not returned yet, so why not give these things back to these people already??? afterall the reason for liquidating was b/c the Lord was to come and their would be no need, well, there is now obviously a need!!! Again, why not give back or aleast offer to gv back what was given?? How can you spk of fuit of the spirt and JW's in the same sentence?
mtavarez4561 1 year ago
@mtavarez4561 first of all. the GB does not own the homes. ppl made their own decision to sell or whatever they did. never were they told to do it. ppl. need to be reposonsible for their own actions. how can someone give back to someone something they do not have. NEVER did the GB tell anyone to do this. ppl made up there own conclusion and did it themselves. Certian ones did get over zealous. My mom was there and remembers it quite well . Sorry not the GB at all it was individual ppl choices
shihtzufizzers 1 year ago
@shihtzufizzers -- Well i hv to disagree, my Mom and Dad remember it quite well as a matter of fact as it was explained, there would be no longer be a need for material things, those who were not quite sure, or those who did not quite buy in all the way were looked at as weak in their faith,and no one wanted to be looked at as weak in their faith, so you call it over zealous, but it was the NORM.
you say no one was told to do it but that is in itself a very harsh thing to say!!.......
mtavarez4561 1 year ago
@shihtzufizzers - .....(cont) its harsh to say b/c on one hand no one was commanded but everyone felt obligated and of coarse what would be the purpose for ppl in the WT to say "there is no longer a need for material things? What would be the purpose for saying this if were not to persuade ppl to sell everything and gv it? And if the W/T no longer had a persons home its obvious since the Lord never came that they still would have need of some where to live--the W/t can still gv back,,,,,
mtavarez4561 1 year ago
@shihtzufizzers -....(cont) what was gven, it is the only right thing to do!!! You talk abt ppl being responsible for their actions, but you exclude the Watchtower from having to be responsible for their actions. Why?
mtavarez4561 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@mtavarez4561 cont I wil not converse with one an apostate for the bible tells us they are satans children. So go make your dad happy ok. I know the bible I do not have to explain it to you for you know it but you choose not to listen. If anyone who really wants to know I am happy to help. as for apostate they are a waste of time. (pearls (gods word) to swine (apostates) they don't understand the beauty.
shihtzufizzers 1 year ago
@mtavarez4561 explained this all ready too. You lie about things. no one felt obligated a few were over zealous and yes I knew some too. but how do you explain the Many upon many who did not. If it was obligated course don;t you think a lot more would of done this? I have answered your ? you just don';t like the answers. good day, and good bye
shihtzufizzers 1 year ago
@shihtzufizzers - first of all you did not answer the question if the "Word was in the beginnning with God then how do the Jw;s teach falsely that God created Jesus? you never answered this. also if the W/T prophets are not inspired prophets then what kind of Prophets are they? Call them what you want - but according to God's word you are in disobedience by continuing to listen to them.
(and you call me an apostate)
mtavarez4561 1 year ago
@shihtzufizzers - you also fail to addrss my other questions- again if a true Prophet speaks the mind of God then why were the so called prophets of the watchtower wrong several several times - and why do you still listen to them in spite of the bible s instruction NOt to Listen to them????
Also - the Bible states in John 1:1 "In the beginng was the Word and the Word was with God. --- this means God did not create the Word as Jw's preach- the JW doctrine is falty and you wont or cnt anser me!!
mtavarez4561 1 year ago
@mtavarez4561 well according to your comments you are nothing more than an apostate. as for being a prophet i all ready told you no where do we ever claimed to be inspired prophets. And I have mentioned sciptures showing ones would be zealous in there intreptation like in Hababaak. God knew this would happen but he tells us don;t be mislead his day will come. as for John 1:1 look up the word Theos. its greek it will help you understand the placement of God and god.
shihtzufizzers 1 year ago
@shihtzufizz ...and what did i lie about? Pretty strong accusation. Just because not everybody sold their home or biz did not mean that everybody was not under tremendous obligation, and this obligation was b/c of the W/t false and reckless behaviour that they still have not taken responsibiity for.
Your no better than these ppl that you defend, You say you ansred my ? but that i dont like your anser - what a joke and a cop out! i would have expected more from a JW --
mtavarez4561 1 year ago
@mtavarez4561 I think your communication has been less about what this video is about and more about your contempt for this persons belief system. I would be glad for this endless bickering to stop. it is degenerating into name calling. I appreciated your initial response to my caution. I saw that a message was spamed. this had happened to your responses that contained your argument and I unspamed them. the last was more of what I hoped would not happen. your anger has been noted. end it please.
fleetwd1 1 year ago
@fleetwd1 - in all fairness, what name calling hv i done? other than being called an Apostate, i looked through the notes and cant see where i called this person any names, i will agree with you that both of our converstions (shih and mine) hv been less abt this vid and more abt the diff in our belief systems. But it takes 2 -
As for this video - i feel sorry for people who feel sorry ppl like me for beliving in literal Hell. Because there is a real and literal Hell whether......
mtavarez4561 1 year ago
@mtavarez4561 I am aware of who did the name calling. that message was spamed not by me but after reading it I did not unspam it as I had yours. Yours was unspamed because you had arguments worthy of being read in spite of someone not liking them. The name calling does not deserve to be unspamed. I had not warned them as I had you. You were close to doing that but you stopped and apologized. I commended you for that. I am asking you to stop now because it has gotten out of hand.
fleetwd1 1 year ago
@mtavarez4561 (Cont) There are many fine Christians who have held to the Traditional view of Hell. It is not regarded as an issue by which your salvation depends. None of those connected with this YT channel are JWs. Both Edward and Des are fine scholars each have two books with forwards by the late FF Bruce. FF Bruce wrote the forward to the book that this video is but a small fraction of. I suggest you study more and leave your crusade against JWs alone.
fleetwd1 1 year ago
@fleetwd1 - thanks for your opion- remember, it takes 2 to argue a point as shih and i were both a part of. Shih's point of veiw had no more to do with your video as mine, yet i am the one that is being told to stop, thats fine, i think both points were well taken in spite of all, and being what it is, my ?'s were stlll never answered---- over all, that in itself tells me alot.
mtavarez4561 1 year ago
@mtavarez4561 You think I am singling you out, but I had asked her to stop and she did, immediately. You were asked but you could not let it let it go. Everyone else had already moved on. After they had moved on, you tried starting it up again. If you have a beef with her, keep it to yourselves. Do not bring it to my channel. Keep your interaction respectful and you will not have these problems. I unspamed your posts. I did not unspam hers. You still don't think I am fair? Okay your opinion.
fleetwd1 1 year ago
@fleetwd1 - have a nice day
mtavarez4561 1 year ago
@mtavarez4561 Thank you and you too.
fleetwd1 1 year ago
@fedupalready19 Your right there is no other God, but there are gods. even satan in the bible is called a god. But not God. see the difference? Jehovah =all mighty. Jesus =mighty. satan well he is the god of this world. that is why when he tempted Jesus and offered him all the kingdoms of the world for one act or worship to him. He could offer them for they were his. But Jesus tells us we should only worship who? Jehovah God
shihtzufizzers 1 year ago
@shihtzufizzers So by your own admission you are a "polytheist" or to be more exact a "henotheist" meaning you have One Supreme God and a lesser god. This is paganism and sounds like the belief of the acient Babylonians. They had "Anu" their Supreme God who presided over lesser gods. According to John 17:3 how may true Gods are there ?If there is only 1 true God "Jehovah", all other gods must be false right ?
fedupalready19 1 year ago
@fedupalready19 I admitted nothing. I pointed out what the bible states. don't be upset with me, take it up with God and why he says his son is a god. yet he is the all mighty God. its in the bible. so you see, nothing I have stated is my own words but facts from Gods word, sounds like you need to ask for guidance and understanding because you don;t get it. yes John 17:3 ONe true God. and the one he sent forth. 2 beings. I know what it says. One TRUE GOD
shihtzufizzers 1 year ago
@fedupalready19 BTW it has nothing to do with babylonian Gods, they worshiped many Gods, we worship One God, Jehovah, just like his son tells us to. there may be other gods, as the bible points outs. but they are not worshiped by true christians.
shihtzufizzers 1 year ago
@shihtzufizzers Truth is always absolute. Meaning it either is or isn't. Truth doesn't become ambiguious depending on certain subjects. Your own NWT calls Jesus a god in John 1:1. Therefore, is Jesus a true God or a false god ?
fedupalready19 1 year ago
@fedupalready19 This is going in circles, we are done, AGAIN, he is the son of the True God, simple as that. Worship in Greek is pro.sky.ne'o. used to desigante the custom of prostrating oneself before a person and kiss the feet,hem a garment ect. this term is used in matth.14:33 for obediance toward jesus. & heb 1:6 the angels worship Jesus. not worship as you understand but a custom of the day. so this might confuse you. but it helps show again Jesus as Gods son. Jesus is Gods son,
shihtzufizzers 1 year ago
@fedupalready19 cont. lower case "g" in john 1:1 but I hope you would know too that greek writings and translations of nouns have shown that this shows jesus is not God himself. it has to do w/ greek language of having definie article appearing before the first occurrance but not after the 2nd occurance. 1st occurance "theos" = God but does not appear after the second occurance. that is god=Jesus. So the word is god like.
shihtzufizzers 1 year ago
@shihtzufizzerNeither one of us are Greek scholars, so let's not go there,the point I've made is clear and you have not answered it. Either Jesus is a true God or a false god period. I agree, it is time to end this.I hope some seeds have been planted. But I'd like to wish you the best and hope Jehovah God richly blesses you with the knowledge of the REAL JESUS. Take care, okay.
fedupalready19 1 year ago
@shihtzufizzersDo you have Jehovah God's approval for your life?Are you complying with Jehovah God's arrangement ?Are you good enough for Eternal Life ?How can you honor Jehovah if you are not giving Jesus the same honor as the Father ?Matt 17:5 "This is my Son....whom I have approved listen to him" Jesus said "and yet YOU would not come to me that YOU might have life John 5:40
nucreationjc 1 year ago
@nucreationjc I only hope I am serving Jehovah to the best of my ability and he see's this. As for giving Jesus honor, well of course, just as he told us to. He is gods son! Taking in knowledge of him and the one he sent forth (john 17:3) So we must learn about both. and Jesus tells us to give praise to his father. even by the model prayer. "Let YOUR name be sactified, Let YOUR kingdom come. showing we put God first. Jesus gave us examples of how we are to honor his father.
shihtzufizzers 1 year ago
@shihtzufizzersAccording to John 5:39,40,is knowledge of scripture sufficient for salvation?What does Jehovah God require according to this passage?Whose garment are you wearing?Yours or Christ's?Isaiah 64:6 tells us"all our acts of righteousness are like a garment for periods of menstration".Have you asked Jesus for the garment only He can provide?How will you survive armageddon?Jehovah has set forth His arrangement for His system of things,Matt. 22:11-13 tells our fate without His garment.
nucreationjc 1 year ago
@nucreationjc cont. Jesus gave us patterns on how to live. We should try to follow his footsteps closely, We can not follow them exactly for he was perfect and we are not. Jesus told us it is his father we must render sacred service, It is God who approved of his son. so yes, listen to Jesus and give worship to his father.
shihtzufizzers 1 year ago
Edward is currently working on a 3rd revision of The Fire That Consumes. It should be available this Summer. For anyone interested in what the bible teaches on the subject this book is a must. Edward and I do not think having the right view on this subject determines ones salvation. However many who oppose the view claim God's word teaches what they believe. Edward deals fairly and even handedly. His arguments have not been dealt with. Those who oppose him use the same arguments he's dealt with.
fleetwd1 1 year ago 7
@fleetwd1
Hi fleet. I purchased Edward Fudge's book, "The Fire That Consumes" about a year ago. How can I tell what revision I have? How can I tell whether it is Revision 1, or Revision 2? And also, how will I know how to go about purchasing Revision 3 once it is released?
Thanks!
Lysimachus78 10 months ago
@Lysimachus78 The original is 500 pages. It was published in1982 with a forward by FF Bruce. A 2nd Revision was released in Briton with fewer pages. The 3rd Revision is at the publisher and will be released by June 2011. The new edition of The Fire That Consumes is being published by Cascade Books, the academic/theological division of Wipf and Stock Publishers. It has a foreword by Professor Richard Bauckham of the University of Cambridge, formerly of the University of St. Andrews, Scotland.
fleetwd1 10 months ago
@Lysimachus78 The Briton 2nd Revision was made for Europe only. The 3rd Revision is expanded and is already being advertised by the new publisher Wipf and Stock under forthcoming titles Cascade Books Division on-line.
Edward writes: "Throughout the new edition, updated after 29 years, I interact with 17 traditionalist authors of 12 other books written in response to the first (and, to a lesser extent, the second, British) edition of TFTC.
Thank you for your interest.
fleetwd1 10 months ago
@fleetwd1
I wanted to thank you kindly for your generous and informative response! Thank you very much, it was helpful, and I'm looking forward to purchasing the new upcoming Revision this June. Blessings!
Lysimachus78 10 months ago
Bible tells us that the dead are conscience of nothing. and that God is love. so how can one burn in hell? Hell, sheol, hades, all words from ancient time meaning common grave of mankind simple as that. the dead feel nothing. And payment for sin is death. if so, why would one cont to be punished. sin has been paid. when something burns w/ fire it is completely destroyed. therefore fire= desctruction not torture.
shihtzufizzers 1 year ago 4
@shihtzufizzers - you mis interpret things of the bible the way you want to hear them - Ecc. 9 : 5 does say the dead are concious of nothing - this is talking about the body -- look at chapter 3 :10 tells us that God appoints an everlasting spirit in every mans heart- dont be fooled by this teaching - this is Satan at its best to deceive.
mtavarez4561 1 year ago
@mtavarez4561 The Hebrew word for spirit and the greek word for spirit are two different meanings. Hebrew word for spirit means life force. Greeek means angelic creatures. so stil it would mean the life force or body knows nothing after death. Think of this. IF heaven was such a blissful place, why did Jesus have pity over Lazarus death and bring him back to Life? Would not that be cruel if he was in heaven?
shihtzufizzers 1 year ago
@shihtzufizzers - listen, i wont argue w/ you abt this, the bible talks more about Hell than it does heaven, Jesus gave several parablles speaking of hell has hot and a place that burns !!!! if you choose to ignore this then ok but dont drag people there with you!!! "Lean NOT on your own understanding" you may think it was cruel for Jesus to raise Lazarus if he was in heaven, thats your understanding but it does not make it so --- trust Gods Word!!!!!!
mtavarez4561 1 year ago
@mtavarez4561 In the bible, it even speaks of Jesus going to hell. why would he go there if it is a place of torment? why did Job ask to go there when he was suffering? fire= complete destruction. not torment. think of a house burning. Why would a god of love torment someone for eternity for 80 -+ years of sin? In romans the payement for sin is death. When you die you have paid for your sins. why would there be any cont. punishment. look up the words sheol and hades in greek and hebrew.
shihtzufizzers 1 year ago
@mtavarez4561 BTW, I am not wanting to argure,I did not think we were. sorry if you felt this way. I thought we were having a conversation. I am not trying to convert you in any way. but showing you through the bible what is being said. I have not misintreped anything, I have looked up what certain words mean when translated from the anceint writings till now. I hope you learn and cont to have love for god. Always and truly seek the truth. take care
shihtzufizzers 1 year ago
@shihtzufizzers - you must be a JW all of them have drank the "there's no hell" koolaid-- i suppose Jesus is the Archangel Michael? Pls, dont try to sell this to me!!!
mtavarez4561 1 year ago
@mtavarez4561 Jude 9 "But when Mi´cha·el the archangel had a difference with the Devil and was disputing about Moses’ body, he did not dare to bring a judgment against him in abusive terms, but said: “May Jehovah rebuke you. Michael = to be like God. Jesus is called Michael. + the archangel is never plural meaning only one. archangel is used 5 x in the bible. Rev 12:7-12 speaks of Michael and HIS angels war against satan. Reasonably, Michael is the archangel
shihtzufizzers 1 year ago
@shihtzufizzers - Michael the archangel said "May the Lord rebuke you" --- the point is, the archangel needed to call on the name of the Lord to rebuke Satan, if he was Jesus he would not have to do that--- think about it!!
mtavarez4561 1 year ago
@shihtzufizzers ---who did Jesus say that he was ? -Matthew 16:15-16 15"But what about you?" he asked. "Who do you say I am?" 16Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."
Jesus did not correct him, in fact look at how Jesus responds:
Matthew 16:17
17Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven.
mtavarez4561 1 year ago
@mtavarez4561 As for who Jesus was, here are a few scriptures Col 1:15 IMAGE of the living God, (not God himself) Prov 8:22-31 goes into when he (jesus) what he saw, and how things came about. It shows that Jesus was created. therefore Not God not the Alpha and the Omega. One must take all scriptures not just some to learn about God and his son (2 Tim 3:16,17) All Scpritures are inspired for us to learn ect.
shihtzufizzers 1 year ago
@shihtzufizzers - thnks for the response- but proverbs 8 talks about wisdom - read the whole chapter! Not talking about Jesus being God's first creation, rather is talking about wisdom--- if this is how you interpret scriptr, then that explains much. - however i do see your point of view when it comes to the trinity, there are scriptures that point out God and Jesus not the same as well as scripture pointing out that they are the same!!! although we will have to disagre i see your point.
mtavarez4561 1 year ago
@shihtzufizzers - Who does the bible say Jesus Christ is?? New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures
1 John 5:20
20 But we know that the Son of God has come, and he has given us intellectual capacity that we may gain the knowledge of the true one. And we are in union with the true one, by means of his Son Jesus Christ, This is the true God and life everlasting.
Your bible even states that Jesus Christ is the true God!!! READ IT!!!!
mtavarez4561 1 year ago
@mtavarez4561 ISA44:6"This is what Jehovah has said, the King of Israel and the Repurchaser of him, Jehovah of armies, ‘I am the first and I am the last, and besides me there is no God. God says: there is no other God besides me. plan and simple. Jesus is in union with God, same traits, standards, values. He has his personality. Just as a child can be like there parents, how much more for Jesus to be like his father who he spent aeons with in heaven.
shihtzufizzers 1 year ago
@shihtzufizzers I find it interesting that in"Should you believe in the trinity",31 pages are spent trying to tell us who Jesus is not,but not once is it mentioned who they believe He is.There is plenty of opportunity to identify Him as Michael. Shouldn't His "correct" name (Michael),be proclaimed from the housetops? Perhaps the name was removed by some old paganized church father.An example might be as follows Paul really said "to live is Michael the Archangel and to die is gain"in Phil. 1:21.
fedupalready19 1 year ago
@mtavarez4561 it says that Jesus is his SON. first of Gods creation. Jesus gave us knowledge of who? the 1 true God, How many? 1. So Jesus taught us of his father, the one true God, thru which we may have everlasting life. God gave Jesus superior power to rule. Yet his is not the all mighty, in fact Jesus told us to pray, OUR father in heaven, let YOUR name be sactified. So Jesus was on earth. where is his father? In heaven, who's name Gods name. not his
shihtzufizzers 1 year ago
@shihtzufizzers - First of all - you brought Jude 9 to my attn which talks abt Michael the Archangel using the Lord to rebuke Satan, the question i have for you is this: If Jesue and Michael/ Archangel are the same, then why did Michael need to use the Lord to rebuke Satan? and why did you state in one of your latest posts that "reasonably Michael and Jesue are the same" -- why becase Michael / Archangel used the Lord to rebuke Satan -- that would not make any sense - pls expln yourself.
mtavarez4561 1 year ago
@shihtzufizzers --- jw's always try to say God and Jesus in the same union but Rev 22:13 pretty much takes care of that one along with about 1/2 dozen others that you did not address in your last post to me.
i address Jude 9 with you but you dont address any of the scripture that i gave to you - even coming from the jw bible-- which is NOT even the true bible !!!!!!!
major tops , deity of Christ, existence of hell, ..... minimized in the NWT -- its a shame!!!!
mtavarez4561 1 year ago
@shihtzufizzers -John 1 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word WAS God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. . 14The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only,[d] who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
mtavarez4561 1 year ago
@mtavarez4561 John 1:1 you many want to look up the greek meaning,I am sending you a personal message so maybe you can understand it more clearly. it is not Greek grammer has alot to do w/ this. with the correct understanding, the Jesus was the word, because he is just like his father in heaven, He multiple times says he is not equal to his father. I hope this helps
shihtzufizzers 1 year ago
@shihtzufizzers -Isaiah 9:6
6 For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor,MIGHTY GOD, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
Matthew 1:23
23"The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel"[a]—which means, "God with us."
mtavarez4561 1 year ago
@shihtzufizzers ---- B4 you attempet to answer anymore of my questions - (jude 9)tell me why Michael / Archangel needed to call on the name of the Lord to rebuke Satan? --- if he was Jesus (as the JW's say) then he wld not need to call on the name of the Lord to rebuke Satan ---- answer please!!!!
mtavarez4561 1 year ago
@mtavarez4561 Jesus often did things to honor his father. it is not through him but hes father. yes Jesus had the power to do it, but he gloried his father. simple as that.
shihtzufizzers 1 year ago
@shihtzufizzers The Watchtower Michael/Jesus doctrine is as strange as it is illogical. If Jehovah recreated His Son as Michael again at the resurrection, and implanted the memories of the first Michael and Jesus' memories into the new Michael's brain and because life forces are impersonal as the August 8, 1978 Awakes states on pg.27 (using electricity and appliances as a description), than apparently Jesus and Michael are no more the same person than a stove or a fan are the same appliance.
fedupalready19 1 year ago
@fedupalready19 Lets stick w/ the bible ok? you mention alot of stuff from the 70s and just like a child learns more as he goes to school, so God gives us update info per his Holy spirit. for Hab 2:3 states"For [the] vision is yet for the appointed time, and it keeps panting on to the end, and it will not tell a lie. Even if it should delay, keep in expectation of it; for it will without fail come true. It will not be late. So we see here that God tells us everything he tells us has a time (cont
shihtzufizzers 1 year ago
@shihtzufizzers - the scriptr you reference in Hab2:3 is not an excuse for false prophets. I do beleive we shld still expect Christ to come, but no man knows when, 5 times the so called prophets at the Watchtower were wrong.---- and you make excuses for them!!!!!
mtavarez4561 1 year ago
@mtavarez4561 for one we NEVER said we are inspired prophets. the truth is,or the prophecy is that Gods day is coming, that has not changed, just the understanding of it. Just like when you are in school a child learns in more depth of a teaching. same here. so Yes nothing false has been said, the day of Jehovah is coming. Your are right the bible says no one knows. Dates mentioned, just where not understood, as for a false prophet they are known by their fruits as mentioned in matt. cont
shihtzufizzers 1 year ago
@shihtzufizzers .....(cont) that equals false prophets! your trying to equate this to what a child learns in school and as they grow they get smarter... WRONG not so with a True Prophet b/c a True Prophet speaks the mind of God and Jehovah God is not WRong!!! EVER!!!! ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,so again you side on the side of error and make excuses for it , and no matter how much Love, Joy, or Peace a JW may or may not show, their doctrine is still in error!!!
mtavarez4561 1 year ago
@mtavarez4561 look at what the fruits are. love, joy peace, long suffering, self control ect. but the fruits of many are the oppistite, many religions kill in the name of God. kill there own brother. You can tell the true faith, by ones works. I do not make excuses for anyone, you say that because you do not really understand what the bible teaches. remove the vale off you eyes, and look at what religion is doing in the name of God, looks bad huh? who doesn't do these things? JW's!
shihtzufizzers 1 year ago
@shihtzufizzers - thanks for your reply - however you still eloquently dance around the issues, I asked you abt John 1:1 "in the beg was the Word (Jesus) and that word was with God from the beginning, so God did not create Jesus as the JW's preach, you have not answerd to this - also regrding false preditions - i agree with you - the day of the lord is at hand so that still remains, and you dont have to be a JW to know that, but there have been several false preditions -- that equals ....
mtavarez4561 1 year ago
@fedupalready19 pt 2. and to keep expecting it, it will not fail. So one must continue learning for even God knows that some things once learned will become better understood as time goes on. He knew this would happen. So as for your info. look at 1thes 4:16because the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice and with God’s trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first. Lord (jesus) come down w/ archangels voice.
shihtzufizzers 1 year ago
@shihtzufizzers If the reference to the archangels voice in 1 Thes. 4:16 makes the Lord Jesus an archangel, then to be consistent doesn't having God's trumpet make Jesus God ? If Jesus is the first and highest of all created beings, and if Jesus was Michael the Archangel in His prehuman state then why is Michael called "one of the chief princes" in Daniel 10:13 ? Doesn't this indicate that Michael is one among equals ? What scriptures in the bible does Jesus tell us He is only a created being ?
fedupalready19 1 year ago
@shihtzufizzers - earlier i tld you abt all of the false predictions the Watchtower has made with regards to Jesus return, a prohet speaks the mind of God, was God wrong ? Well if God was not wrong then the Watchtower was, and if they were wrong then God says not listen to them any longer. So why are you still in disobedience by listening to these ppl who claim to be prophets of God??
mtavarez4561 1 year ago
@mtavarez4561 This person keeps trying to evade the point you are making about the Watchtower Michael/Jesus doctrine which is not only ridiculous, but as you have rightly pointed out not biblical in the least.
fedupalready19 1 year ago
@mtavarez4561 According to the Watchtower,The only connection between Jesus and Michael the Archangel is the "impersonal life force" that Jehovah implanted in each. And when a person ceases to exist this life force leaves his body as the July 22, 1979 Awake states. According to them, Jesus is dead and gone forever and so is the first Michael; while the newly created Michael gets all the glory and put forth no effort. The new Michael never suffered and died for us,but only has an implanted memory
fedupalready19 1 year ago
@fedupalready19 - thanks for the support - i will admit i dont know alot about what the JW's believe but as educated as shihtzufizzers appears , He/ She does not make sense. And i never got a straight anser so far. Thats too bad.
The whole religion sounds twisted to me. I hope they will contact me again, maybe they will shed some light on these issues.
mtavarez4561 1 year ago
@mtavarez4561 YEs, please, next time a JW speaks to you, please ask them ?'s I hope you receive your answers. YOutube is not the best place for answers and these boxs are limited in space. I hope you find what you are looking for. I am sorry if I do not make sense. If you do not want to wait for them to call on you, call your local Kingdom hall and ask someone to come see you. I wish you the best
shihtzufizzers 1 year ago
@shihtzufizzers -Coloss 2: 8-10 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ. 9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; 10 and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power.
mtavarez4561 1 year ago
@mtavarez4561 "20.But we know that the Son of God has come, and he has given us intellectual capacity that we may gain the knowledge of the true one. And we are in union with the true one, by means of his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and life everlasting. Yes it does show who Jesus is (son of God) and through Jesus (in union w/ God) we learn about his Father, so we may have everlasting life.
shihtzufizzers 1 year ago
@shihtzufizzers Sorry previous answer was from 1 john which you brought up. It co insides wtih John 17:3 "This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ. So we must take in knowledge of BOTH Jesus and his father Jehovah. two separate beings. Jesus came to earth to give us direction so we try to follow his footsteps closely. You quote scriptures well, but take them with others and I think it will do you good.
shihtzufizzers 1 year ago
@shihtzufizzers - let me just share one more thing abt the "New Light" --- it should not matter from what year anything is put out, it shld always hold true, NO MATTER WHAT! I have listened to sermons from John Mcarther from 35 yrs ago and they are as true now as they were then!!! I think you are fooling yourself to think otherwise--- lets stop making excuses for these false prophets / teachers of God.
mtavarez4561 1 year ago
@mtavarez4561 God must of known that we may not understand everthing at once. it would be too much for us. the fact is the major teaching has never changed. In fact in Hab 1:3 it says "For [the] vision is yet for the appointed time, and it keeps panting on to the end, and it will not tell a lie. Even if it should delay, keep in expectation of it; for it will without fail come true. It will not be late. shows us that it will have an appointed time,keep expecting it, for it will come.
shihtzufizzers 1 year ago
@mtavarez4561 Please do not take the wrong way, i am only showing you through Gods word. Just take that and see what you can see for yourself. Ask ?'s, talk to JW's, find out yourself. I only wish you the best, and am very happy you are interested in learning about God and his son. Keep it up, it is worth it. take care
shihtzufizzers 1 year ago
@shihtzufizzers As I stated earlier I'm not wishing to quarrel with you or anyone, however I will contend for the faith. You brought uo Prov.8:22 in an attempt to show Jesus is created. Have you ever read the context of Prov. chapters 1-9. It is very common in Hebrew poetry to use abstract illustrations. In this case "wisdom" is personified.According to 1:20,21, wisdom is an it that cries out, and in 8:12 resides with someone named shrewdness.
fedupalready19 1 year ago
@shihtzufizzers cont. Proverbs 8- If "wisdom" in Proverbs 8 is referring to Christ and if "wisdom" in Proverbs 8 is the same "wisdom" as in the 1st 9 chapters of Proverbs as the context clearly indicates, then who is this shrewdness person Christ resides with in vs.12?Do you believe Christ is an "it" who cries out ?Proverbs1:20,21 If "wisdom" had a beginning, doesn't this mean that Jehovah God did not have "wisdom" until a certain point when He aquired it ?What kind of God is that ?
fedupalready19 1 year ago
@shihtzufizzers - as far as the Watchtwer - and all the "New Light" -- lets be fair, there have been at least 5 false prophesies put out by the Watchtower regarding Jesus's return - what does the bible say about this? - i think you know, and we shld not listen, to or be afraid of ANY Watchtower prophets, that is according to God's word. Slice it anyway you want, but it goes against the bible to listen to false prophets!!!
mtavarez4561 1 year ago
@shihtzufizzers - John 14:8-9
New World translation of the Holy Scriptures:
8 Philip said to him: “Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.”
9 Jesus said to him: “Have I been with you men so long a time, and yet, Philip, you have not come to know me? He that has seen me has seen the Father [also]. How is it you say, ‘Show us the Father’?
do you see even what your own bible says about who Jesus is?
mtavarez4561 1 year ago
@mtavarez4561 Yes Jesus did say if you seen me you have seen the father. they have a bond, a perfect bond. They are in union just like I have said before, a child can show the same traits as his parents, so jesus does his father. for Jesus admits they are not equal. after all why would jesus if god have to come to earth to prove himself faithful to himself? 1cor 8:5,6 show us Jehovah is unique, no one else shares his position. 1 God 1 Father.
shihtzufizzers 1 year ago
@shihtzufizzers - 1 John 5 6This is the one who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ. He did not come by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth. 7For there are three that testify: 8the[a] Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.
mtavarez4561 1 year ago
@mtavarez4561 Phil 2:5-11 shows us that Jesus exits in gods form and the Father has commanded that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend, BUT all this is done to the glory of God the father. God exalted him to a superior postion. showing that God is all mighty, and God gave Jesus a postion, still under God though.
shihtzufizzers 1 year ago
@shihtzufizzers -- the next question i have for you is why do NOT respond to Any of the scripture that i shared with you conserning Jesus Diety? let's just take them one at a time : this is what Jesus says about who he is;
Revelation 22:13 “I AM the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End
This does not sound like someone who is in 'perfect union w/ the Father.
mtavarez4561 1 year ago
@shihtzufizzers -Titus 2:13
13while we wait for the blessed hope—the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ,
mtavarez4561 1 year ago
@mtavarez4561 Yep, he who has seen Jesus has seen his father by traits, compasion, love. Ones who have seem my daughter have seen me, why because I raised her. only for a few yrs compared to how long Jesus was w/ his father in heaven. so of course they can be two peas in a pod per say.
shihtzufizzers 1 year ago
@mtavarez4561 I did not say it was cruel. but if he was in heaven and in a blissful state it would of been. Jesus told lazaruz to "wake up" like he was asleep. Look at the incident again. It hurt Jesus his friend was dead, He showed us compassion for man. He also showed us he can resurecced the dead. why did he have to show us that? becuase it will be done again. This is not my words but the bible. I have looked at it and research many areas. I do trust Gods word thru many years of study.
shihtzufizzers 1 year ago
@mtavarez4561 Yes, satan does deceive. but ask yourself why did jesus have to come to earth to die for us? Adam and eve were created to live forever in paradise. Satan messed that up. But the bible says god does not change. so his purpose has not changed. just taking a detour. Yes the earth will be a paradise. Ones will be resureccted to life again. to live forever. Why do we prolong our life by going to the drs. if we were meant to die? Just something to ponder?
shihtzufizzers 1 year ago
@mtavarez4561 To be fair to God's word you misquote Eccl 3:11 (not Eccl 3:10) you add the word spirit to everlasting. I have looked at 7 different translations and 1 original Hebrew text and none have the word spirit which you added. I think you are trying to support an unsupportable view of the immortality of the soul. This doctrine is foreign to scripture. Edward's book The Fire That Consumes that this video is a but a small fraction deals with the subject very thoughtfully and thoroughly.
fleetwd1 1 year ago 5
@fleetwd1 - MATTHEW 25:46: "And these will go away into ETERNAL punishment, but the righteous into ETERNAL life."
DANIEL 12:2: "And many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, some to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and EVERLASTING contempt."
MATTHEW 18:8: "...it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than having two hands or two feet, to be cast into the ETERNAL FIRE"
mtavarez4561 1 year ago
@mtavarez4561 I am not sure why you were spamed for this comment but it was not me. I marked it "not spam." I had seen you sent this comment to yourself earlier. you may have deleted it before sending it to me. I have been gone all day. Your texts here do not speak to your issue. If you watch Edward's videos on the subject (about 14) you may see why I say this.
I do not mind your raising issues or questions. However name calling will not win you respect. It is childish and mean spirited.
fleetwd1 1 year ago
@fleetwd1 - i am sorry for any name clling i have done, i looked thru the notes and did not see what names i called anyone but none the less if I hve offended you that was not my intention.
mtavarez4561 1 year ago 2
@mtavarez4561 I appreciate your sensitivity on the matter.
fleetwd1 1 year ago 2
@mtavarez4561 Matt25:46 everlasting punishment ="looping off" or cutting off. greek word :ko'la-sin used in the orignal writings of the greek script. (see Emphatic diaglott for descriptions) When understanding certain ancient words and looking at the first clergy back in the day and why they changed things to benefit themselves, you will see the true meaning of scriptures. Fire= complete destruction, not torture. fire consumes. destroys, not prolong torture.
shihtzufizzers 1 year ago
Comment removed
mtavarez4561 1 year ago
@mtavarez4561 again, I am not "selling you" anything, just pointing out facts in the bible. whether it be the orginal greek scriptures, up to todays. Many Greek words have meaning translated differently to today, but once understood, you will get a better understanding. not my words, but Gods word the bible.
shihtzufizzers 1 year ago
@shihtzufizzers -- You say that Jesus was Michael the Archangel.
Who did Jesus say he was?
Listen to what Jesus himself says in Revelation 22:13 “13I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End
Revelation 21:6 6He said to me: "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To him who is thirsty I will give to drink without cost from the spring of the water of life.
mtavarez4561 1 year ago
@mtavarez4561 Rev 21:13 is not Jesus but Jehovah God. He is the alpha and the Omega. Rev1:8"“I am the Al´pha and the O·me´ga,” says Jehovah God, “the One who is and who was and who is coming, the Almighty. any where in the bible where there is LORD or GOD, those replaced Gods name in early clergy days because they thought it would be wrong to say Gods name even though in James it tell us differently. so Jehovah replaces LORD. therefore God. (see Isa 44:6)
shihtzufizzers 1 year ago
@shihtzufizzersRev.1:7 says someone who is pierced is coming(obviously Jesus) and 8 says Jehovah God is coming.Are they both coming? In 1:8 Jehovah God is the Alpha and the Omega,but Rev. 22:12-13 says "look I am coming quickly...I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last..."So Jehovah God is coming quickly. But wait 22:20 says"Yes I am coming quickly."Amen! Come Lord Jesus".Who's speaking in 2:8?"...the Firs