The Bible explicitly states that women should cover their heads. Whats the surprise that some Jewish women actually want to do what their Bible tells them? I accept that covering the face may not be the same thing....
These Jews either have Ishmaelite souls, or they are simply mistaken in trying to take on non-Torah customs.
In the Torah it is prostitutes who cover their faces. Torah tells Jewish women only to cover their hair.
Unfortunately the same Rabbis who are causing these Jewish women to cover their faces like Ishmaelites, are also the same Rabbis who are forbidding Jewish women from leaving their homes on Shabbat or at anytime without a male.
very light soft language they use because their talking about jews and in thw world media especially british and american its going 2 be about loosing ur career in the media if u talked about jews in a strict language ............................................... if this was a muslim covering her head with a very thin scarv because its windy outside we would have seen hell rising
............................ but fine they well pay with their blood for every begutry they show us .
@proudislamic ... You've got the wrong idea. This is a Jewish podcast and all the contributors are Jewish. There's also a Muslim podcast from the same media source, and the tone is similar.
I think this is a bit much.. & rather hot - wouldn't they get heat exhaustion? I wear hijab and make sure it is light and not heavily layered because of that.. & I do not cover my face nor wear a burqa, most Muslim women do not do this anyways..
haha, modesty !?!?! they are mentally ill...just as bad as the crazed muslims...any religion that tries to impose things and control especially women is backward
@asphinxkat very light soft language they use because their talking about jews and in thw world media especially british and american its going 2 be about loosing ur career in the media if u talked about jews in a strict language ............................................... if this was a muslim covering her head with a very thin scarv because its windy outside we would have seen hell rising
............................ but fine they well pay with their blood for every begutry they show us .
@perrik7 ... Perhaps what you mean to say is that you don't believe that these women are following the true teachings of Judaism. However, these women do exist and live in Jerusalem.
Its against Halakcha [Jewish law] for a woman to cover her face in public [it is encouraged that a married woman cover her hair though]. The frumka is non-frum.
I think that it's very much a reaction to what's going on on general society
I think that as general society becomes less modest, there's more pressure for the Ultra Orthodox society to become more modest
that's the only reason I can think of too, but I don't think they should do that though, they should just continue with the modesty they've had so far, and I don't consider wearing more close being more modest, I don't kno what u'd call it (radical maybe?)
@pccrazy1000 ... I think that's a very good point... that as general society becomes less modest, religious people feel the need to become more modest. That could be true for many faiths.
@oclandestin yeah, I think so 2, it kind of worries me when it come 2 Islam though because its followers can become so violent. Heres what I think about wearing veils, choosing to is self limitation, having to is being forced. In ancient times it made sense 2 wear it since women werent protected from rape by the law, now that we r, it doesnt make sense 2 do it, unless u want 2 follow ur religion, but u have 2 not put yourself in a situation where it can happen
@pccrazy1000 ... I think that's very prejudiced to assume that Muslims "can be so violent" over and above other faiths, especially when you look at the behaviour of some orthodox settlers in Israel. I don't think you understand why some women want to be more modest. This video explains an extreme and very impractical example but modesty doesn't have to be "self-limiting". Many women feel modesty liberates them from being judged by their appearance. Personally I think modesty is a good thing.
@oclandestin I agree that modesty is good, so that u dont get derogatory remarks & so you can prevent bad things from happening 2 u if you find yourself in certain situations, but I think its good to a certain extent, I mean I don’t think it’s necessary to wear a niqab, or something so drastic
@oclandestin It doesnt make sense 2 kill people, because we all have the same creator, & I don’t think that God put us on earth for the purpose of killing each other, He can take us from this earth he wants. I strongly condemn Israel for what it does 2 the Palestinians, its downright cruel to destroy everything a person has and kill their families
@oclandestin I'm sorry, I didn't mean 2 b prejudice like that, I know not all Muslims r violent, there r some very kind Muslims in the area that I live & I like them, & I see many others in the news or online like them, but I was refering 2 the rise in the number of radical Muslims around the world, I mean, violent Jihad is attractive 2 a lot of people, & I think killing is wrong no matter what religion u are from, or what religion u are not from.
@pccrazy1000 ... I think the threat of "violent Jihad" has been exaggerated by governments and the media who have had an agenda to set in the 'war on terror', and that in itself has fuelled any threat that has existed. Equally when something is labelled as "violent Jihad" by the west, it may in fact just be local people defending their country from foreign invaders or be part of a civil war.
@oclandestin I think that f terrorists didnt try 2 stop the rebuilding of the governments of Iraq & Afghanistan, then peace could have been achieved almost completely by now, at least in Iraq (because the Pashtun warlords always seem 2 be vying for power of Afghanistan), but it would be easier 2 achieve peace, if there weren’t such terrible road blocks. Now, I think that its fine for a country to be a democracy,
@oclandestin I mean, an Islamic country would still retain Islamic values if it was a democracy, because, for example, most Muslim women wear the hijab, and even more conservative clothing in western countries.
@oclandestin I mean, an Islamic country would still retain Islamic values if it was a democracy, because, for example, most Muslim women wear the hijab, and even more conservative clothing in western countries.
@oclandestin Now, no country likes being occupied, because then you feel like your national pride is squished underfoot, but if the foreign forces got out of Iraq and Afghanistan, then terrible civil wars would start in those countries because so many separate groups would try to gain control; president Bush took down the Taliban government and Sadam Hussein’s regiem, so now the US army, has to help those countries get government, if you take a government down, you have to raise one back up.
@oclandestin In one youtube video, I saw that at a mosque called Abubakr (or Abu Bakr) in Germany is called a place of radicalization, and that some people at that mosque were arrested for putting suitcases full of explosives in a crowded area, but luckily, the bombs didn’t go off. Their purpose though, was to try to kill as many people as possible, and some groups in the Middle East don’t focus on killing just foreigners, but also their own countrymen, such as policemen.
@oclandestin I heard that women have rights in Islam, and I think that women should be allowed to use their rights to the fullest extent, not be kept back. Also, now and then I hear or read in the news that some American Muslims are taking the extreme path and turning to Al Qaida. They have the freedom to do as they please, but why would they join a terrorist group?
@oclandestin and one time Islamiya cared for a mad who was either very sick or very hurt, and eventually he died, but she went to Mohammed and asked him if it was alright that she cared for a man, and he said it was.
@oclandestin I know the Taliban outlawed school for girls when it ruled Afghanistan, but I also heard that Kadija, Mohammed’s first wife, was a business woman, and that Mohammed went to her for employment, and that Islamiya (I think that’s what her name was) was taught by hear father, who was a physician, to care for the sick, and she asked Mohammed if she was allowed to take care of the sick and injured people, and he said of course,
@oclandestin but the Taliban blew up many of their religious statues because it was contrary to the teachings of Islam), but not every Muslim may want to observe the strictest form of Sharia law, and I think that’s fine because God still loves them, so why would you press someone into such a small corner that they become a nobody,
@oclandestin Thank you :) Now, I know that one aspect of Jihad is to defend your country, but the Taliban in Afghanistan for example want a very strict form of Sharia law in their country, and I don't think people should impose their religious views on other people, I mean, not everyone may be Muslim there (I know there used to be a Buddhist population in Afghanistan,
@oclandestin I am from India and the threat of 'violent jihad' is not exaggerated here. Every few days there is some Islamic sect which either gets to run off a bomb or its designs are foiled. Thr is absolutely no 'war on terror' here n there are no 'foreign invaders' here for the muslims to fight or defend. As a matter of fact, many muslims identify themselves as successors of foreign invaders/settlers.I think it is very important not to underestimate/trivialize d issue of Islamic extremism.
@udayanchakravorty ... The Indian government and military has been in violent conflict with Muslims in Kashmir for decades, and India and Pakistan are always in competition with eachother, so that's why the Indian government and media likes to portray a permanent "threat" from "Islamic sects". If there is a "threat" from "jihad" it's more likely the result of the ongoing trouble/ occupation in Kashmir. India has just jumped on the bandwagon since the "war on terror" was launched in the west.
@oclandestin Kashmir till the early 80s, people openly supported India, bad politics n nt the army) ruined it n now has turned a nightmare. Economics is not an issue as the generl population is richer than rest of india's. Its mostly for religious superiority now. Anyway, it is but 1 state of many, n with govt job and educational reservation (not seen in many countries for religious minorities) it is strange for the rise in 'jihad'.The many bombings and shootings are not a media creation.
@udayanchakravorty ... From what I've read/ understood, Muslim Indians are much more disadvantaged than Hindu Indians, especially in a society where caste still figures highly. You talk about "many bombings and shootings" but really how frequent are they. If this activity is from disparate "Islamic sects" the reasons could be many. It's very easy to lump together all incidents as "jihad". Considering the size of India's population, it's unrealistic for Muslims to seek to govern as a minority.
"They would only cover their elbows, or their knees," That's stupid, frum Jewish women have always covered their hair! It's nothing new or unusual to see Jewish ladies wearing sheitels or head-scarves.
To each there own if they wish to cover up then they should do what they want.. no man can force this they have no right on the other hand if they wish not to it is still there right and no one has a right to say no
You're right, some ppl view the term 'ultra-orthodox' as a pejorative, but because it's used in this 'Jewish' podcast, by Jewish ppl, I have used it also. And yes, these women who wear the 'frumka' are a fringe minority.
Yes, many orthodox Jewish women wear a kind of hijab, but these women are ultra-orthodox, and if you listened to both videos you'd know it's only a small minority of of ultr-orthodox women who have chosen to wear the 'frumka'. The photos are blurry because they were the only available images on the net.
@shawry86 Actually, orthodox women dont wear hijabs at all, they just have to wear a shirt, and a hair covering, but you can see their neck.
And you didnt see them because there practically are none, the figures are widely exaggerated. I've lived in this community for 1.5 years, and have seen a handful of these women, at most.
Also, some of them have ancestry that came from arab countries, like morocco or yemen, where this is the predominant style, so their culture carried on into israel.
@oclandestin In the orthodox community, in Jerusalem. It really isn't as extreme as everyone wants you to believe. Look, I'm using a computer. And look, I would through these neighbourhoods daily, and I'm still alive. People just have to understand that this lady and her group are clearly not well, and this extreme is not the dominant culture, even in very orthodox circles. If anything, it's forbidden by Torah law to be "more religious" than the community, as it raises eyebrows, creates rifts...
@oclandestin unusual case, yes, but truly amazing, and it makes me take a long at myself and want to improve on my modesty. Perhaps I may never get to that extent, but I certainly think they can teach the world about something we know very little about... there is another side that is concealed, and modesty WILL bring the redemption.
@Sweetashanni ... I'm a sister, but thank you anyway : ) 'Shukran' is Arabic for thank you but I'm not an Arabic speaker either. Just a Muslim, alhamdulillah : )
@kweena I disagree. I am ultra orthodox, I do not cover myself to those extents, I am rather modern looking, perhaps a little too much, but these women coming about just prior to Messiah is for a good reason, and studying Kaballah makes me understand that there are Kabbalistic reasons for the numbers of layers. These women are shining examples to the world
this ain't about modesty this is about homopliance. a homocompliant environment is one in which homosexual men are spared from having to see or touch anything that seems remotely female. thus the hasidic sects have homopliant laws and thats a huge part of why hasids are gentile.
Look at the Temani Jews dress code. Until recently, they all wore a similar 'long shift' to the floor, trousers underneath. Covering hair and part of face was not uncommon.
The Fore-Mothers from the Bible also followed this dress code
Our congregation of Yisraelites follow the dress of our fore-mothers including the face veil. If people would objectively look at this they would see that this is not new among Yisraeli and it was borrowed by islam.
MrBeef... Where does it say that the burqa was "stolen and plagiarised from Judaism"? I've never heard any Jewish people say that. I've also never heard any Muslims lay claim to the face veil as being an Islamic creation.
here is a dose of reality, islam is completly based on judaism, it uses all its prophets and most of its concepts. Jewish woman always had to cover their hair and bodies, just like in islam. THey have their own style on the whole woman being modest look
Halpyman, you are mistaken. The faith of a Muslim according to Islam is not complete unless he/she accepts ALL the previous prophets. Islam is not based on any other religion but it is the last religion of the world. it approves of all the previous religions (not only Judaism) and prophets with their original message of God's words. I respect what you believe and you should also respect what Muslims believe and not say this is based on that.
What's the point of this video? To make Jews look bad? One, modesty, for both men and women, is a virtue. Two, these "frumkas" are a very rare thing. Three, Muslims can't really criticize Jews on this point because their culture tends to be more and more often extreme over these matters. Four, why would any Jew give ammo (and that's what it is) to the Guardian? Well, I guess "Jews" have sided with Gentiles against their own people often enough before e.g. Dathan, Herod, and M. Chaim Rumkowski.
It's fairly obvious to anyone listening that frumkas are rare. The report doesn't "make Jews look bad" in any way. It's a report and discussion on a fairly recent cultural phenomenon. This is a Jewish podcast and the people taking part in the discussion and report are all Jewish. It actually highlights many similarities between Muslims and Jews regarding values of modesty. In comparison, your own attitude seems divisive and anti-Muslim.
The Jews' worst enemies have always come from among their own number, so the fact that Jews are doing the reporting doesn't undermine the anti-Jewish quality of the report. The Guardian newspaper is certainly anti-Israel, and antisemitism is a key component of their anti-Israel stance. Hence, this report about Jews and their strange (so we are led to believe) customs. Why else would they make a report on this piddling subject?
RenShiWu, are you even Jewish? You clearly like to make things up and advocate the censorship of views you don't personally agree with. The Guardian is not anti-Israel or even anti-Zionist. It's certainly not anti-Semitic. Aside from that, anti-Zionism has nothing to do with anti-Semitism. There are plenty of secular and religious Jews and Israelis who are anti-Zionist. If this is a "piddling subject" it's strange that you're getting so worked up about it.
@oclandestin Anything anti - Israel on the part of the gentile world is nothing other than ANTI - SEMITISM. Identical twins hide behind the same cloak!
@kweena ... Criticism of Israel is largely to do with the Israeli government's policies, domestic and foreign, its attitude and treatment towards its neighbours, irs human rights abuses and its contraventions of international law. It's nothing to do with anti-Semitism or even criticising Judaism. That's an excuse used by those who support apartheid Zionism.
@perrik7 ... You're not making any sense. Your first opinion was that this story was "fake". If you research the story, and the people in this interview, you'll realise it isn't. What is written in the Bible is nothing to do with that.
Speaking of why this radio report was made, why was it then posted on YouTube? Probably, as I suspect, to make Jews look bad. The poster is evidently a Muslim who maybe believes in what Muhammad said about Jews being the sons of apes and pigs - or the end times being hastened by fighting with the Jews. By his user logo, he doesn't want to see Iran - a major source of Islamic terror, Holocaust denial, and threats to eliminate Israel - bombed, even though such a thing might stave off genocide.
RenShiWu, you seem to be the only person here trying to make other people "look bad". You're obviously prejudiced against Muslims and you're even prepared to blacken the names of Jews who wish to discuss issues that you would prefer to be censored (for some paranoid reason). As for Iran, it has never threatened to "eliminate Israel", although you clearly would like to see innocent Iranians bombed and don't care about Israel's desire to eliminate Palestine. Take your hypocrisy elsewhere.
you can know the original standards of jewish modesty by viewing pics of Yemenite jewish women as they were brought to Israel in the early days of the state. That's the closest rendering of the biblical understanding of modesty we have to look at today. R. Keren is clearly 'out there' in regards to this and is in fact distorting this understanding. Men who are zealous to impose undue burdens or stumbling blocks on women will do so when they see her or hear about her.
Everyone here is missing the point. The bet din which is the Jewish court for orthodox Jews and this woman is orthodox so she has accepted their authority granted the divorce. This is extremely rare. She must have been totally out of her gourd with no chance of being capable to be a mariage partner. HER CHILDREN HAD TO LEAD HER OUT OF THE COURTROOM! She is NUTS! As far as Jewish law is concerned this is NOT MODESTY but calling undue attention to herself and is the OPPOSITE of modesty.
Miriam, Moses' sister would not have ben able to dance at the Red Sea under all those coverings. THat's one proof that Biblical women din't go around excessively robed and veiled.
A very dangerous trend, when society starts assuming anyone who is "different" is "mentally ill". The concept of "freedom" goes right down the drain, with that assumption. Also, anyone who believes something that is outside of mainstream religious thought, becomes a member of a "cult"... There goes the whole concept of "freedom of religion"... So I'm only "free" to believe in "prescribed beliefs" which are sanctioned and approved by the nation-state? Doesn't sound like "freedom", at all!
In my opinion the woman in the court case is one or more of these:
-1. Mentally ill.
2. Suffering from abuse by her husband and this is a way of acting it out and getting rid of him.
The group of the rabbanit is reacting in fear to something. If it is really a belief that wearing 10 skirts will bring the messiah, then it is a cult and should be treated as such. Looking like an Arab woman in the Old City has its advantages. Can you guess why?! Not getting a knife in the back, for example!
There are times I really wish I could go out, in America, in a burqa, without having to deal with death threats &/or harassment every 5 minutes! All this talk about "freedom" & how wearing a burqa is supposed to be "oppression of women", but if I were REALLY FREE, I'd be free to wear that burqa, if that's what I CHOOSE to do. Do you really think I could get on a city bus, in one?? They'd either refuse me, want to strip search me, (hiding any bombs under there??) or beat me up, once I got on!
If I were Muslim, I'd be hesitant to admit it, with so much general hostility towards Muslims, at this time. Actually, I tried "mainstream Islam", but decided it lacked some things. (I think it's been corrupted from it's original pure form, like every other institutionalized religion) But there are some good things there, as well. Why would I expect protection from a corrupt court system, run by a gov't which encourages hatred of Muslims, if that were my problem? Besides, lawyers cost money...
Don't you know that even Muhammad himself, sometimes had to hide his face, hide who & what he was, & run for his life, to escape persecution?
& I certainly consider myself no better than him...
(Admittedly, I'm not the world's most willing martyr!)
I would think a Muslim, of all people, would be most supportive of any woman who wishes to cover herself from the sight of other eyes. (however she does it) That a Muslim woman would understand this, better than anyone...
If you are a Muslim, I think it's fairly safe to admit it on Youtube at least : ) It's easy to become excessively paranoid, especially with the American media. I must admit, I wouldn't want to live in the US.
Ah, so in your mind, IF I WERE a Muslim, any perceptions of persecution, would just be a figment of my imagination, and/or paranoia?
I wouldn't want to be a Muslim in any country that even SUPPORTS America!
How many countries happily agreed to help bomb Baghdad? How many have signed on, to be part of G. Bush's "War on Terror"? (which we all know is really a "war against Muslims", or maybe just a war against ANY dissenters of the "powers that be", be they RIGHT or WRONG?)
EXACTLY1 at least shes being modest fully anyway . i mean BETTer than havign a woman dress up with min skrits and short sleaves walkign thorugh the orthodox vicinity
I haven't seen or heard any evidence that they are hurting themselves or anyone else, with their choice of behaviors. & I see no reason why people shouldn't be free to do what they want, as long as they're not hurting anyone else. Who decides what is "functional" & who or what we should be "functioning" for, anyway? Isn't that a PERSONAL choice? Are our lives just about whether or not we're contributing money/labor to the nation-state?? Or do we need to live to fulfill OURSELVES as well?
They hurting others by their being 'overly pious' which Shlomo HaMelech (king Solomon) warned against.The problem's it creates is that some husbands (like mine) will eventually *demand* that their wives dress in this manner once they see her, not realizing that in fact she may just be someone who's not entirely stable mentally, not just someone who's trying to be more modest. It creates issues for those of us out here who are going to ber put under pressure by our spouses to be like her.
I believe the burka is inherently unhealthy because they overcover the skin to the point where vitamin D deficiency is very common in areas where women wear them all the time, such as Afghanistan.
I am Muslim, but I love the idea of modesty. If a woman chooses to wear a Burka, she should be allowed to. The only problem with Burkas was those who forced it upon society.
well, modesty is a good virtue. Sure you dont have to wear a burqa to be modest. However a woman can do or wear what she wants to be modest. In this particular case, the women have chosen to wear this for their own personal religious beliefs.
:)..oh interesting... Actually the essence of every religion requires the layers of clothing.Hope this spreads around whole israel and they have the chance to get access to islam
God.bless her , she is not oppressed, as for those judges and her husband , shame on you
husambusam 1 month ago
many women in the bible are described as wearing a face veil, so i dont see what the problem is ?
lizzieworld13 2 months ago
The Bible explicitly states that women should cover their heads. Whats the surprise that some Jewish women actually want to do what their Bible tells them? I accept that covering the face may not be the same thing....
MoeRocco75 3 months ago
Both Islam and Judaism promote modest dress.
Why this come as a suprise? lots of bitter comments
G-d bless
Shalom Ba'olam
ebonypimpify 6 months ago 2
Turbans and shawls and scarfs were invented by Jews in biblical times
jonyadegari 10 months ago
These Jews either have Ishmaelite souls, or they are simply mistaken in trying to take on non-Torah customs.
In the Torah it is prostitutes who cover their faces. Torah tells Jewish women only to cover their hair.
Unfortunately the same Rabbis who are causing these Jewish women to cover their faces like Ishmaelites, are also the same Rabbis who are forbidding Jewish women from leaving their homes on Shabbat or at anytime without a male.
This is not Torah, it is Islamic, not for Jews.
SarahRachel59 1 year ago
@SarahRachel59
Is the Biblical law about executing gays and apostates also to be called 'Ishmaelic'?
MoeRocco75 3 months ago
actual Jews have no tradition of women covering up like this....this is just part of the gentile derech of hasidism.
BrooklynNotQueens 1 year ago
very light soft language they use because their talking about jews and in thw world media especially british and american its going 2 be about loosing ur career in the media if u talked about jews in a strict language ............................................... if this was a muslim covering her head with a very thin scarv because its windy outside we would have seen hell rising
............................ but fine they well pay with their blood for every begutry they show us .
proudislamic 1 year ago
@proudislamic ... You've got the wrong idea. This is a Jewish podcast and all the contributors are Jewish. There's also a Muslim podcast from the same media source, and the tone is similar.
oclandestin 1 year ago
I think this is a bit much.. & rather hot - wouldn't they get heat exhaustion? I wear hijab and make sure it is light and not heavily layered because of that.. & I do not cover my face nor wear a burqa, most Muslim women do not do this anyways..
pineappleupside 1 year ago
haha, modesty !?!?! they are mentally ill...just as bad as the crazed muslims...any religion that tries to impose things and control especially women is backward
asphinxkat 1 year ago
@asphinxkat very light soft language they use because their talking about jews and in thw world media especially british and american its going 2 be about loosing ur career in the media if u talked about jews in a strict language ............................................... if this was a muslim covering her head with a very thin scarv because its windy outside we would have seen hell rising
............................ but fine they well pay with their blood for every begutry they show us .
proudislamic 1 year ago
Religion is a mental illness !!!!
macbrack04 1 year ago
This is fake fake fake
Burqa in Judaism:
Genesis 38:15
When Judah saw her, he thought she was a harlot, for she had covered her face.
perrik7 1 year ago 2
@perrik7 ... Perhaps what you mean to say is that you don't believe that these women are following the true teachings of Judaism. However, these women do exist and live in Jerusalem.
oclandestin 1 year ago
this is a fabrication.
like five crazy women wearing this burqa and no other jew is talking to them.
In judaism only prostituuuute cover her face.
perrik7 1 year ago
@perrik7 ... You seem to have posted a similar comment 4 months ago. It's not a fabrication. Now go and do some research.
oclandestin 1 year ago
As a jew I am so disgusted! This is only a very small group and hopefully it will stay that way.They are an extreme embarasement!
semowery 1 year ago
This is good!
Sesquiltera 1 year ago
Its against Halakcha [Jewish law] for a woman to cover her face in public [it is encouraged that a married woman cover her hair though]. The frumka is non-frum.
AlexanderMaccabee 1 year ago
I think that it's very much a reaction to what's going on on general society
I think that as general society becomes less modest, there's more pressure for the Ultra Orthodox society to become more modest
that's the only reason I can think of too, but I don't think they should do that though, they should just continue with the modesty they've had so far, and I don't consider wearing more close being more modest, I don't kno what u'd call it (radical maybe?)
pccrazy1000 1 year ago
@pccrazy1000 ... I think that's a very good point... that as general society becomes less modest, religious people feel the need to become more modest. That could be true for many faiths.
oclandestin 1 year ago
@oclandestin yeah, I think so 2, it kind of worries me when it come 2 Islam though because its followers can become so violent. Heres what I think about wearing veils, choosing to is self limitation, having to is being forced. In ancient times it made sense 2 wear it since women werent protected from rape by the law, now that we r, it doesnt make sense 2 do it, unless u want 2 follow ur religion, but u have 2 not put yourself in a situation where it can happen
pccrazy1000 1 year ago
@pccrazy1000 ... I think that's very prejudiced to assume that Muslims "can be so violent" over and above other faiths, especially when you look at the behaviour of some orthodox settlers in Israel. I don't think you understand why some women want to be more modest. This video explains an extreme and very impractical example but modesty doesn't have to be "self-limiting". Many women feel modesty liberates them from being judged by their appearance. Personally I think modesty is a good thing.
oclandestin 1 year ago
@oclandestin I agree that modesty is good, so that u dont get derogatory remarks & so you can prevent bad things from happening 2 u if you find yourself in certain situations, but I think its good to a certain extent, I mean I don’t think it’s necessary to wear a niqab, or something so drastic
pccrazy1000 1 year ago
@oclandestin It doesnt make sense 2 kill people, because we all have the same creator, & I don’t think that God put us on earth for the purpose of killing each other, He can take us from this earth he wants. I strongly condemn Israel for what it does 2 the Palestinians, its downright cruel to destroy everything a person has and kill their families
pccrazy1000 1 year ago
@oclandestin I'm sorry, I didn't mean 2 b prejudice like that, I know not all Muslims r violent, there r some very kind Muslims in the area that I live & I like them, & I see many others in the news or online like them, but I was refering 2 the rise in the number of radical Muslims around the world, I mean, violent Jihad is attractive 2 a lot of people, & I think killing is wrong no matter what religion u are from, or what religion u are not from.
pccrazy1000 1 year ago
@pccrazy1000 ... I think the threat of "violent Jihad" has been exaggerated by governments and the media who have had an agenda to set in the 'war on terror', and that in itself has fuelled any threat that has existed. Equally when something is labelled as "violent Jihad" by the west, it may in fact just be local people defending their country from foreign invaders or be part of a civil war.
I appreciate your comments though.
oclandestin 1 year ago
@oclandestin I think that f terrorists didnt try 2 stop the rebuilding of the governments of Iraq & Afghanistan, then peace could have been achieved almost completely by now, at least in Iraq (because the Pashtun warlords always seem 2 be vying for power of Afghanistan), but it would be easier 2 achieve peace, if there weren’t such terrible road blocks. Now, I think that its fine for a country to be a democracy,
pccrazy1000 1 year ago
@oclandestin I mean, an Islamic country would still retain Islamic values if it was a democracy, because, for example, most Muslim women wear the hijab, and even more conservative clothing in western countries.
pccrazy1000 1 year ago
@oclandestin I mean, an Islamic country would still retain Islamic values if it was a democracy, because, for example, most Muslim women wear the hijab, and even more conservative clothing in western countries.
pccrazy1000 1 year ago
@oclandestin Now, no country likes being occupied, because then you feel like your national pride is squished underfoot, but if the foreign forces got out of Iraq and Afghanistan, then terrible civil wars would start in those countries because so many separate groups would try to gain control; president Bush took down the Taliban government and Sadam Hussein’s regiem, so now the US army, has to help those countries get government, if you take a government down, you have to raise one back up.
pccrazy1000 1 year ago
@oclandestin In one youtube video, I saw that at a mosque called Abubakr (or Abu Bakr) in Germany is called a place of radicalization, and that some people at that mosque were arrested for putting suitcases full of explosives in a crowded area, but luckily, the bombs didn’t go off. Their purpose though, was to try to kill as many people as possible, and some groups in the Middle East don’t focus on killing just foreigners, but also their own countrymen, such as policemen.
pccrazy1000 1 year ago
@oclandestin I heard that women have rights in Islam, and I think that women should be allowed to use their rights to the fullest extent, not be kept back. Also, now and then I hear or read in the news that some American Muslims are taking the extreme path and turning to Al Qaida. They have the freedom to do as they please, but why would they join a terrorist group?
pccrazy1000 1 year ago
@oclandestin and one time Islamiya cared for a mad who was either very sick or very hurt, and eventually he died, but she went to Mohammed and asked him if it was alright that she cared for a man, and he said it was.
pccrazy1000 1 year ago
@oclandestin I know the Taliban outlawed school for girls when it ruled Afghanistan, but I also heard that Kadija, Mohammed’s first wife, was a business woman, and that Mohammed went to her for employment, and that Islamiya (I think that’s what her name was) was taught by hear father, who was a physician, to care for the sick, and she asked Mohammed if she was allowed to take care of the sick and injured people, and he said of course,
pccrazy1000 1 year ago
@oclandestin but the Taliban blew up many of their religious statues because it was contrary to the teachings of Islam), but not every Muslim may want to observe the strictest form of Sharia law, and I think that’s fine because God still loves them, so why would you press someone into such a small corner that they become a nobody,
pccrazy1000 1 year ago
@oclandestin Thank you :) Now, I know that one aspect of Jihad is to defend your country, but the Taliban in Afghanistan for example want a very strict form of Sharia law in their country, and I don't think people should impose their religious views on other people, I mean, not everyone may be Muslim there (I know there used to be a Buddhist population in Afghanistan,
pccrazy1000 1 year ago
@oclandestin I am from India and the threat of 'violent jihad' is not exaggerated here. Every few days there is some Islamic sect which either gets to run off a bomb or its designs are foiled. Thr is absolutely no 'war on terror' here n there are no 'foreign invaders' here for the muslims to fight or defend. As a matter of fact, many muslims identify themselves as successors of foreign invaders/settlers.I think it is very important not to underestimate/trivialize d issue of Islamic extremism.
udayanchakravorty 1 year ago
@udayanchakravorty ... The Indian government and military has been in violent conflict with Muslims in Kashmir for decades, and India and Pakistan are always in competition with eachother, so that's why the Indian government and media likes to portray a permanent "threat" from "Islamic sects". If there is a "threat" from "jihad" it's more likely the result of the ongoing trouble/ occupation in Kashmir. India has just jumped on the bandwagon since the "war on terror" was launched in the west.
oclandestin 1 year ago
@oclandestin Kashmir till the early 80s, people openly supported India, bad politics n nt the army) ruined it n now has turned a nightmare. Economics is not an issue as the generl population is richer than rest of india's. Its mostly for religious superiority now. Anyway, it is but 1 state of many, n with govt job and educational reservation (not seen in many countries for religious minorities) it is strange for the rise in 'jihad'.The many bombings and shootings are not a media creation.
udayanchakravorty 1 year ago
@udayanchakravorty ... From what I've read/ understood, Muslim Indians are much more disadvantaged than Hindu Indians, especially in a society where caste still figures highly. You talk about "many bombings and shootings" but really how frequent are they. If this activity is from disparate "Islamic sects" the reasons could be many. It's very easy to lump together all incidents as "jihad". Considering the size of India's population, it's unrealistic for Muslims to seek to govern as a minority.
oclandestin 1 year ago
i don't think they're trying to copy the burka but just taking modesty a bit too far
snoteroni 1 year ago
Imagine-- Salome' and the dance of the seven burqas????????
IanHunedoara8 1 year ago
"They would only cover their elbows, or their knees," That's stupid, frum Jewish women have always covered their hair! It's nothing new or unusual to see Jewish ladies wearing sheitels or head-scarves.
ballerinagirl74 1 year ago
orthodox women do cover their head(hair) after they married, doesnt they?
kurokamei 1 year ago
This is sick... dont you remember Judah and Tamar? He mistook her as a whore because she wore most likely a burqa!
Away with this crap!
Terneyah 1 year ago
This isn't allowed according to Jewish law. One's face has to be seen, that is Jewish Law. This is an expession of feminism and insanity.
extazy17 1 year ago
Nor is it modest to dress in such a way as to call attention to oneself!
Rudziewicz 2 years ago
This isn't "orthodox." This is reactionary.
Rudziewicz 2 years ago
To each there own if they wish to cover up then they should do what they want.. no man can force this they have no right on the other hand if they wish not to it is still there right and no one has a right to say no
fkxp 2 years ago
this is insane!!! wearing 10 skirts?! unbelievable! and permanent gloves? what about netilat? i hope this doesn't catch on too much
thisguyheisaguy 2 years ago
You're right, some ppl view the term 'ultra-orthodox' as a pejorative, but because it's used in this 'Jewish' podcast, by Jewish ppl, I have used it also. And yes, these women who wear the 'frumka' are a fringe minority.
oclandestin 2 years ago
why are all the pics blury...and why didnt i see one of these in jerusalem? most orthidox women were a kinda hijab...not burka
shawry86 2 years ago
Yes, many orthodox Jewish women wear a kind of hijab, but these women are ultra-orthodox, and if you listened to both videos you'd know it's only a small minority of of ultr-orthodox women who have chosen to wear the 'frumka'. The photos are blurry because they were the only available images on the net.
oclandestin 2 years ago
@shawry86 Actually, orthodox women dont wear hijabs at all, they just have to wear a shirt, and a hair covering, but you can see their neck.
And you didnt see them because there practically are none, the figures are widely exaggerated. I've lived in this community for 1.5 years, and have seen a handful of these women, at most.
Also, some of them have ancestry that came from arab countries, like morocco or yemen, where this is the predominant style, so their culture carried on into israel.
kweena 1 year ago 2
@kweena ... When you say you've lived in "this community", which community are you referring to?
oclandestin 1 year ago
@oclandestin In the orthodox community, in Jerusalem. It really isn't as extreme as everyone wants you to believe. Look, I'm using a computer. And look, I would through these neighbourhoods daily, and I'm still alive. People just have to understand that this lady and her group are clearly not well, and this extreme is not the dominant culture, even in very orthodox circles. If anything, it's forbidden by Torah law to be "more religious" than the community, as it raises eyebrows, creates rifts...
kweena 1 year ago
@kweena ... Thanks for your comment. I think the report does make it clear that this is an unusual case, and not the dominant culture.
oclandestin 1 year ago
@oclandestin unusual case, yes, but truly amazing, and it makes me take a long at myself and want to improve on my modesty. Perhaps I may never get to that extent, but I certainly think they can teach the world about something we know very little about... there is another side that is concealed, and modesty WILL bring the redemption.
Sweetashanni 1 year ago
@Sweetashanni ... InshaAllah.
oclandestin 1 year ago
@oclandestin I don't remember how to say thank you in Arabic, so thank you, dear brother.
Sweetashanni 1 year ago
@Sweetashanni ... I'm a sister, but thank you anyway : ) 'Shukran' is Arabic for thank you but I'm not an Arabic speaker either. Just a Muslim, alhamdulillah : )
oclandestin 1 year ago
@oclandestin oops... :-) sorry. My mother speaks Arabic, from Morocco, so I know some words.
Sweetashanni 1 year ago
@kweena I disagree. I am ultra orthodox, I do not cover myself to those extents, I am rather modern looking, perhaps a little too much, but these women coming about just prior to Messiah is for a good reason, and studying Kaballah makes me understand that there are Kabbalistic reasons for the numbers of layers. These women are shining examples to the world
Sweetashanni 1 year ago
lol some people are nuts
InternetGuyNumeroUno 2 years ago
this ain't about modesty this is about homopliance. a homocompliant environment is one in which homosexual men are spared from having to see or touch anything that seems remotely female. thus the hasidic sects have homopliant laws and thats a huge part of why hasids are gentile.
BrooklynNotQueens 2 years ago
this isn't even true. go to boro park or monsey,or lakewood. you wouldn't find any frum madel wearing that
obamadidit2008 2 years ago
Is it really so strange a concept?
Look at the Temani Jews dress code. Until recently, they all wore a similar 'long shift' to the floor, trousers underneath. Covering hair and part of face was not uncommon.
The Fore-Mothers from the Bible also followed this dress code
Zeeceei 2 years ago
Our congregation of Yisraelites follow the dress of our fore-mothers including the face veil. If people would objectively look at this they would see that this is not new among Yisraeli and it was borrowed by islam.
malcahbatYah 2 years ago
It's not allowed by Jewish law to cover one's face. This is an expression of feminism, YES feminism.
extazy17 1 year ago
MrBeef... Where does it say that the burqa was "stolen and plagiarised from Judaism"? I've never heard any Jewish people say that. I've also never heard any Muslims lay claim to the face veil as being an Islamic creation.
oclandestin 2 years ago
here is a dose of reality, islam is completly based on judaism, it uses all its prophets and most of its concepts. Jewish woman always had to cover their hair and bodies, just like in islam. THey have their own style on the whole woman being modest look
halpyman 2 years ago
Halpyman, you are mistaken. The faith of a Muslim according to Islam is not complete unless he/she accepts ALL the previous prophets. Islam is not based on any other religion but it is the last religion of the world. it approves of all the previous religions (not only Judaism) and prophets with their original message of God's words. I respect what you believe and you should also respect what Muslims believe and not say this is based on that.
zaAfghanyam 2 years ago 2
religious nutters will end up destroying our planet.
fakenphoney 2 years ago
weird it has been about 3000 years old religion can not come up with the resolution of the simple modesty wow
bowed21 3 years ago
May Allah guide all human beings.
HassanSK11 3 years ago 10
May all human beings guide Allah
fifilafrance 2 years ago
What's the point of this video? To make Jews look bad? One, modesty, for both men and women, is a virtue. Two, these "frumkas" are a very rare thing. Three, Muslims can't really criticize Jews on this point because their culture tends to be more and more often extreme over these matters. Four, why would any Jew give ammo (and that's what it is) to the Guardian? Well, I guess "Jews" have sided with Gentiles against their own people often enough before e.g. Dathan, Herod, and M. Chaim Rumkowski.
RenShiWu 3 years ago
It's fairly obvious to anyone listening that frumkas are rare. The report doesn't "make Jews look bad" in any way. It's a report and discussion on a fairly recent cultural phenomenon. This is a Jewish podcast and the people taking part in the discussion and report are all Jewish. It actually highlights many similarities between Muslims and Jews regarding values of modesty. In comparison, your own attitude seems divisive and anti-Muslim.
oclandestin 3 years ago
The Jews' worst enemies have always come from among their own number, so the fact that Jews are doing the reporting doesn't undermine the anti-Jewish quality of the report. The Guardian newspaper is certainly anti-Israel, and antisemitism is a key component of their anti-Israel stance. Hence, this report about Jews and their strange (so we are led to believe) customs. Why else would they make a report on this piddling subject?
RenShiWu 3 years ago
RenShiWu, are you even Jewish? You clearly like to make things up and advocate the censorship of views you don't personally agree with. The Guardian is not anti-Israel or even anti-Zionist. It's certainly not anti-Semitic. Aside from that, anti-Zionism has nothing to do with anti-Semitism. There are plenty of secular and religious Jews and Israelis who are anti-Zionist. If this is a "piddling subject" it's strange that you're getting so worked up about it.
oclandestin 3 years ago
@oclandestin Anything anti - Israel on the part of the gentile world is nothing other than ANTI - SEMITISM. Identical twins hide behind the same cloak!
kweena 1 year ago
@kweena ... Criticism of Israel is largely to do with the Israeli government's policies, domestic and foreign, its attitude and treatment towards its neighbours, irs human rights abuses and its contraventions of international law. It's nothing to do with anti-Semitism or even criticising Judaism. That's an excuse used by those who support apartheid Zionism.
oclandestin 1 year ago
@oclandestin this is a fake bounch of nonsense lies.
perrik7 1 year ago
@perrik7 ... Actually it isn't. Do some research.
oclandestin 1 year ago
@oclandestin In Judaism Only prostitute cover their faces.
Genesis 38-15 When Judah saw her, he thought her to be a harlot; for she had covered her face.
so much for your research.
perrik7 1 year ago
@perrik7 ... You're not making any sense. Your first opinion was that this story was "fake". If you research the story, and the people in this interview, you'll realise it isn't. What is written in the Bible is nothing to do with that.
oclandestin 1 year ago
Speaking of why this radio report was made, why was it then posted on YouTube? Probably, as I suspect, to make Jews look bad. The poster is evidently a Muslim who maybe believes in what Muhammad said about Jews being the sons of apes and pigs - or the end times being hastened by fighting with the Jews. By his user logo, he doesn't want to see Iran - a major source of Islamic terror, Holocaust denial, and threats to eliminate Israel - bombed, even though such a thing might stave off genocide.
RenShiWu 3 years ago
RenShiWu, you seem to be the only person here trying to make other people "look bad". You're obviously prejudiced against Muslims and you're even prepared to blacken the names of Jews who wish to discuss issues that you would prefer to be censored (for some paranoid reason). As for Iran, it has never threatened to "eliminate Israel", although you clearly would like to see innocent Iranians bombed and don't care about Israel's desire to eliminate Palestine. Take your hypocrisy elsewhere.
oclandestin 3 years ago
Please read the Laws in the Torah to see how extreme it is.
AnaMurida 3 years ago 5
you can know the original standards of jewish modesty by viewing pics of Yemenite jewish women as they were brought to Israel in the early days of the state. That's the closest rendering of the biblical understanding of modesty we have to look at today. R. Keren is clearly 'out there' in regards to this and is in fact distorting this understanding. Men who are zealous to impose undue burdens or stumbling blocks on women will do so when they see her or hear about her.
teshua 3 years ago
Everyone here is missing the point. The bet din which is the Jewish court for orthodox Jews and this woman is orthodox so she has accepted their authority granted the divorce. This is extremely rare. She must have been totally out of her gourd with no chance of being capable to be a mariage partner. HER CHILDREN HAD TO LEAD HER OUT OF THE COURTROOM! She is NUTS! As far as Jewish law is concerned this is NOT MODESTY but calling undue attention to herself and is the OPPOSITE of modesty.
Rockwellneighbour 3 years ago 3
Miriam, Moses' sister would not have ben able to dance at the Red Sea under all those coverings. THat's one proof that Biblical women din't go around excessively robed and veiled.
IanHunedoara8 3 years ago
A very dangerous trend, when society starts assuming anyone who is "different" is "mentally ill". The concept of "freedom" goes right down the drain, with that assumption. Also, anyone who believes something that is outside of mainstream religious thought, becomes a member of a "cult"... There goes the whole concept of "freedom of religion"... So I'm only "free" to believe in "prescribed beliefs" which are sanctioned and approved by the nation-state? Doesn't sound like "freedom", at all!
glynnth 3 years ago
@glynnth You clearly don't know what freedom is...
kweena 1 year ago
In my opinion the woman in the court case is one or more of these:
-1. Mentally ill.
2. Suffering from abuse by her husband and this is a way of acting it out and getting rid of him.
The group of the rabbanit is reacting in fear to something. If it is really a belief that wearing 10 skirts will bring the messiah, then it is a cult and should be treated as such. Looking like an Arab woman in the Old City has its advantages. Can you guess why?! Not getting a knife in the back, for example!
Rockwellneighbour 3 years ago
There are times I really wish I could go out, in America, in a burqa, without having to deal with death threats &/or harassment every 5 minutes! All this talk about "freedom" & how wearing a burqa is supposed to be "oppression of women", but if I were REALLY FREE, I'd be free to wear that burqa, if that's what I CHOOSE to do. Do you really think I could get on a city bus, in one?? They'd either refuse me, want to strip search me, (hiding any bombs under there??) or beat me up, once I got on!
glynnth 3 years ago 3
glynnth are you a Moslem?! I don't think so! Why don't you go to court with your imagined "death threats"?!
You could scrape up some money for that wigwam you wanted! lol
Rockwellneighbour 3 years ago
If I were Muslim, I'd be hesitant to admit it, with so much general hostility towards Muslims, at this time. Actually, I tried "mainstream Islam", but decided it lacked some things. (I think it's been corrupted from it's original pure form, like every other institutionalized religion) But there are some good things there, as well. Why would I expect protection from a corrupt court system, run by a gov't which encourages hatred of Muslims, if that were my problem? Besides, lawyers cost money...
glynnth 3 years ago
If you were a Muslim you would fear only Allah, so you'd never be hesitant to admit it. You'd be proud to admit your love for Allah, as I am.
oclandestin 3 years ago
Don't you know that even Muhammad himself, sometimes had to hide his face, hide who & what he was, & run for his life, to escape persecution?
& I certainly consider myself no better than him...
(Admittedly, I'm not the world's most willing martyr!)
I would think a Muslim, of all people, would be most supportive of any woman who wishes to cover herself from the sight of other eyes. (however she does it) That a Muslim woman would understand this, better than anyone...
glynnth 3 years ago
If you are a Muslim, I think it's fairly safe to admit it on Youtube at least : ) It's easy to become excessively paranoid, especially with the American media. I must admit, I wouldn't want to live in the US.
oclandestin 3 years ago
Ah, so in your mind, IF I WERE a Muslim, any perceptions of persecution, would just be a figment of my imagination, and/or paranoia?
I wouldn't want to be a Muslim in any country that even SUPPORTS America!
How many countries happily agreed to help bomb Baghdad? How many have signed on, to be part of G. Bush's "War on Terror"? (which we all know is really a "war against Muslims", or maybe just a war against ANY dissenters of the "powers that be", be they RIGHT or WRONG?)
glynnth 3 years ago
May Allah guide you. Not everyone is out to get you.
oclandestin 3 years ago
LOL, not everyone, just MOSTLY everyone!
Thanks for the words of support, anyway.
I suppose I'll work it out, eventually...
glynnth 3 years ago
People should be able to wear whatever the heck they want to wear. If that's 10 skirts and 7 veils, so be it!
glynnth 3 years ago 11
EXACTLY1 at least shes being modest fully anyway . i mean BETTer than havign a woman dress up with min skrits and short sleaves walkign thorugh the orthodox vicinity
chinkstah9683 3 years ago
NO glynnth!!
They shouldn't-not when it destroys their ablity to function and they must depend on there little children!
Rockwellneighbour 3 years ago 2
I haven't seen or heard any evidence that they are hurting themselves or anyone else, with their choice of behaviors. & I see no reason why people shouldn't be free to do what they want, as long as they're not hurting anyone else. Who decides what is "functional" & who or what we should be "functioning" for, anyway? Isn't that a PERSONAL choice? Are our lives just about whether or not we're contributing money/labor to the nation-state?? Or do we need to live to fulfill OURSELVES as well?
glynnth 3 years ago
They hurting others by their being 'overly pious' which Shlomo HaMelech (king Solomon) warned against.The problem's it creates is that some husbands (like mine) will eventually *demand* that their wives dress in this manner once they see her, not realizing that in fact she may just be someone who's not entirely stable mentally, not just someone who's trying to be more modest. It creates issues for those of us out here who are going to ber put under pressure by our spouses to be like her.
teshua 3 years ago
What compels this woman to consider modesty over keeping her marriage intact?
IanHunedoara8 3 years ago 3
I guess she believes pleasing God is more important than pleasing her husband.
oclandestin 3 years ago
wtf
serroTnevetS 3 years ago
I believe the burka is inherently unhealthy because they overcover the skin to the point where vitamin D deficiency is very common in areas where women wear them all the time, such as Afghanistan.
Tamar1973 3 years ago 3
thank goodness these women dont live in hot, humid tropical countries where they could sweat profusely and grow skin fungus as a result
scentofjasmine 3 years ago
the ultra orthodaox?
lunigal 3 years ago
The Ultra-Orthodox Jews are also known as Haredi/ Charedi Jews. They're the most conservative of the Orthodox groups.
Peace : )
oclandestin 3 years ago
I see, I think. Interesting
lunigal 3 years ago
1st time to know such information,
Thank you for posting
Greetings
RolaJuma 3 years ago
JazakAllah khair. Wasalaam : )
oclandestin 3 years ago
Im muslum but I hate burka!!
Shonny0570 3 years ago
I am Muslim, but I love the idea of modesty. If a woman chooses to wear a Burka, she should be allowed to. The only problem with Burkas was those who forced it upon society.
wolon 3 years ago
i totally agree with wolon The idea of modesty is something that needs to be embraced.
letmeinviteyou 3 years ago
Modesty should be practiced but a burqa is not really needed.
fashionhistorylover 3 years ago 3
Modesty should be a good virtue but you really don't need to wear a burqa.
fashionhistorylover 3 years ago 3
well, modesty is a good virtue. Sure you dont have to wear a burqa to be modest. However a woman can do or wear what she wants to be modest. In this particular case, the women have chosen to wear this for their own personal religious beliefs.
wolon 3 years ago
:)..oh interesting... Actually the essence of every religion requires the layers of clothing.Hope this spreads around whole israel and they have the chance to get access to islam
laiktube2 3 years ago 2
InshaAllah, although I think 10 skirts and 7 veils is just a little extreme : )
oclandestin 3 years ago
Yeah,i know.. Maybe that is just a trend:)
laiktube2 3 years ago
yeah,Israels will become muslim after that.Your joker man:)... but keep hoping,i.e we all need all the time to survive.
osmantan1 3 years ago