To respond to John's comment, because people play games with thier friends, and just because someone is your friend doesn't neccesarily mean he is good at roleplaying.
I think he means players that don't change, like guys who are tired and play anyway, and storm out when the GM does something they don't like. The players that proceed to screw over the entire party because they aren't the center of attention. Basically, players that continue to ruin the experience for everybody. I have more examples, but IMHO, those are bad players. Doesn't mean they're bad people. Also, if everyone's still having fun at the table, they can't be that "bad".
Nice video. To Dokph, even if they're nice people, I don't have to put up with them at my table if they're bad players or if they're disruptive. I have friends who are nice to out with to the cinema and really stink when it comes to rpgs. We agree to disagree and each goes his own way when it comes to gaming.
@Dwarin psheaw right. That is just the attitude that gets me. "I don't play with you and you don't play with me. Someone wants to play with me, I have the decency to sit down and at least give him a chance. Either it works out or it doesn't. But I don't cut people out from my table because they're not social, or dramatic, or theatric, or gamery enough, to find 'em acceptable. Honestly, Assholes? I don't play with. Players who're so bad they literally can't play. Nope.But bad players? Hell yes.
Cause their friends? Cause they're interesting people? Because there is a difference between a bad player and a bad person? Contrary to what most people think, rpg's aren't some god sent person value evaluation system? Cause most of the time, they're funnier than elitist jackasses that only plays with people reaching their personal degree of 'acceptable'? What's a better gm, someone who plays with bad players and have a grand time, or someone who only plays with the best he can find?
All the good game masters I know have no problem attracting quality players to their games. Like attracts like. Game masters with chronic 'bad player' problems should take a good honest look at the mirror. Because seriously... most bad player problems are just symptoms of bad GMing.
I sometimes GM for a group which lives near my parents place (I'm at uni now) I come back for the holidays and run for them because I used to game with them and they're good friends. My replacement in the group is the stereotypical Bad Player but they like him out-of-game and if I want to game with the rest of them I have to put up with him as well.
"Good" and "Bad" are necessarily relative terms. How can John decide what constitutes "bad players" for you or your group? You have to make that judgment on your own.
But this doesn't really help you sort out the bad players. It just shoves the problem onto someone else. Surely, something remains to be said for intelligent discussion and nonviolent communication. What about encouraging the bad players to adapt to your GMing style? Would you care to lift yourself out of the dirt for long enough to offer a comment on this?
This is a nice false dichotomy. Apparently, only good and bad players exist. There are no merely "average" players. The comment was almost certainly meant that the advice only works with those above the average margin of players, or that there was a prerequisite player skill for the advice to be of any use, not specifically that the advice didn't work with bad players. Any GM can attest that NOTHING works with bad players.
Overall, nice wise-acre comment, not so much a useful one.
Also, I think I should mention that some of us see "bad players" as a way to stretch our GM muscle in an area few GMs get a chance to stretch them in: Weening bad players off of their troublesome behaviour. Let's see if Mr. Wick has any advice about that one? It might be quite enlightening
Alright. I find your answer most amusing. Some people don't have the option to play with better players, however. They can't find better players Either because they don't live in a large gaming community, or because the bad players have left a legacy on him "oh, he plays with THAT group." and is therefore left with the same situtation as if he didn't have all that many players in the first place.
Oops. I answered a rhetorical question, didn't I? I guess ConayR didn't have to wait long. :)
A good player has the tools, skills and experience to have fun at the table, and help the other players have fun at the table. They're open-minded, creative, generous, and don't whine about things that don't matter.
I'm pretty sure some people won't get this rhetorical question and answer you. Can't wait to see what you have to say about "there are no good player in my area, yada yada"...
To respond to John's comment, because people play games with thier friends, and just because someone is your friend doesn't neccesarily mean he is good at roleplaying.
LordSathar 5 months ago
@LordSathar And if you don't say anything, he'll never get better.
LordStrange 5 months ago
Brand lethargy also leads to a lot of "bad players" in the hobby.
TheColdpress 9 months ago
I think he means players that don't change, like guys who are tired and play anyway, and storm out when the GM does something they don't like. The players that proceed to screw over the entire party because they aren't the center of attention. Basically, players that continue to ruin the experience for everybody. I have more examples, but IMHO, those are bad players. Doesn't mean they're bad people. Also, if everyone's still having fun at the table, they can't be that "bad".
Propadanza 1 year ago
Nice video. To Dokph, even if they're nice people, I don't have to put up with them at my table if they're bad players or if they're disruptive. I have friends who are nice to out with to the cinema and really stink when it comes to rpgs. We agree to disagree and each goes his own way when it comes to gaming.
Dwarin 1 year ago
@Dwarin psheaw right. That is just the attitude that gets me. "I don't play with you and you don't play with me. Someone wants to play with me, I have the decency to sit down and at least give him a chance. Either it works out or it doesn't. But I don't cut people out from my table because they're not social, or dramatic, or theatric, or gamery enough, to find 'em acceptable. Honestly, Assholes? I don't play with. Players who're so bad they literally can't play. Nope.But bad players? Hell yes.
Dokph 1 year ago
Cause their friends? Cause they're interesting people? Because there is a difference between a bad player and a bad person? Contrary to what most people think, rpg's aren't some god sent person value evaluation system? Cause most of the time, they're funnier than elitist jackasses that only plays with people reaching their personal degree of 'acceptable'? What's a better gm, someone who plays with bad players and have a grand time, or someone who only plays with the best he can find?
Dokph 1 year ago
All the good game masters I know have no problem attracting quality players to their games. Like attracts like. Game masters with chronic 'bad player' problems should take a good honest look at the mirror. Because seriously... most bad player problems are just symptoms of bad GMing.
Excellent series, keep up the good work.
ProjectHestia 3 years ago
That can be true but there are exceptions.
I sometimes GM for a group which lives near my parents place (I'm at uni now) I come back for the holidays and run for them because I used to game with them and they're good friends. My replacement in the group is the stereotypical Bad Player but they like him out-of-game and if I want to game with the rest of them I have to put up with him as well.
bathlarper 2 years ago
Brilliant advice
Vidious88 3 years ago
"Good" and "Bad" are necessarily relative terms. How can John decide what constitutes "bad players" for you or your group? You have to make that judgment on your own.
NevTheDeranged 3 years ago
But this doesn't really help you sort out the bad players. It just shoves the problem onto someone else. Surely, something remains to be said for intelligent discussion and nonviolent communication. What about encouraging the bad players to adapt to your GMing style? Would you care to lift yourself out of the dirt for long enough to offer a comment on this?
PanzerDivisionBOM 3 years ago
Short and simple. Nice.
Valclav 3 years ago
This is a nice false dichotomy. Apparently, only good and bad players exist. There are no merely "average" players. The comment was almost certainly meant that the advice only works with those above the average margin of players, or that there was a prerequisite player skill for the advice to be of any use, not specifically that the advice didn't work with bad players. Any GM can attest that NOTHING works with bad players.
Overall, nice wise-acre comment, not so much a useful one.
azirk83 3 years ago 2
I laughed and laughed. Then I showed a bad player my disappearing pencil trick.
Maybe you should start a "Dear John" segment and give us relationship advice. Not love, just players.
I even got one. What about when your roommate is one of those bad players and moving isn't an option?
bschuitema 3 years ago
Also, I think I should mention that some of us see "bad players" as a way to stretch our GM muscle in an area few GMs get a chance to stretch them in: Weening bad players off of their troublesome behaviour. Let's see if Mr. Wick has any advice about that one? It might be quite enlightening
jesternario 3 years ago
Alright. I find your answer most amusing. Some people don't have the option to play with better players, however. They can't find better players Either because they don't live in a large gaming community, or because the bad players have left a legacy on him "oh, he plays with THAT group." and is therefore left with the same situtation as if he didn't have all that many players in the first place.
Oops. I answered a rhetorical question, didn't I? I guess ConayR didn't have to wait long. :)
jesternario 3 years ago
THATS IT?
That's the advice???
bigspoiltbrat 3 years ago
What devines a good player and what devines a bad one? Is it a perception check that failed or simply the lack of skills, tools and experiance?
LuisureSuitLarry 3 years ago
A good player has the tools, skills and experience to have fun at the table, and help the other players have fun at the table. They're open-minded, creative, generous, and don't whine about things that don't matter.
brennenreece 3 years ago
That depends entirely on how one defines 'tool'.
bschuitema 3 years ago
Well put.
ogremarco 3 years ago
well put.
ogremarco 3 years ago
Sorry for the times-two comment. Sometimes I really should use patience... :o/
hoboyho 3 years ago
I'm pretty sure some people won't get this rhetorical question and answer you. Can't wait to see what you have to say about "there are no good player in my area, yada yada"...
ConayR 3 years ago
*LOL*
Oww that's hard - true but hard. (then again the Truth almost always is)
...and the most hilarious part is, that the advice took like 22 seconds out of 53 altogether. ;o)
hoboyho 3 years ago
*LOL*
Oww that's hard - true but hard. (then again the Truth almost always is)
...and the most hilarious part is, that the advice took like 22 seconds out of 53 altogether. ;o)
hoboyho 3 years ago