Oh my god... Howard Dean's people threw out thugs and hecklers who wanted to disrupt his speech.
He should have done what George Bush did when Bush was President; make it illegal to protest and designate a "protest zone" several miles away from the event. If the present President had done that, they would have screamed we live in a dictatorship; but if Bush does it, it's ok.
Dear Representative Moron - How unfair. Do you have ANY idea how difficult it is to out-yell Howard Dean???? You have to be a champion "hog-caller" to do it! The people attending that "town haller" should have been given blue ribbons- not asked to leave!
Howard Dean-The scream heard around the world "YEAAGHHHH!"
I like the way that Fox edited the news clip to exclude the fact that the loudest protester wasn't from the district, but a national protester and not relevant to the townhall meeting....
I WAS THERE, and Dean received a standing ovation, if you watch the whole clip, the main yelling was at the disrupters, we were chanting, "get out, " and "kick them out," and if you watch longer clips, you can see the ovation, and the crowd chanting in FAVOR of Dean. The people outside were disrupters, bussed in, not from my district. In the auditorium, in our BLUE area, the reform people outnumbered protesters by vast numbers. The matching signs were handed out by Obama people there.
fascinating to me, considering I was actually present at this townhall meeting, how FOX spun what occurred at South Lakes. 1. The pro-healthcare people outnumbered those against by 8:1 ratio, Howard Dean was cheered with a standing ovation, and only a small group,not in our district,who must have lied to get in, were screaming at Gov Dean,and all the fools outside the event were not allowed in, to allow people from the 8th district in to hear their own congressman, they were bussed in to disrupt
I think it is hilarious that the Dems spent 8 years opposed to the Iraq war, but now they have fallen silent. I don't see Cindy Sheehan in the news anymore.
Obama has continued the practice of rendition, renewed the FISA act, spent billions bailing out private industries and broken endless campaign promises.
Where is the outrage from the left? Dems have sold all of their principles and gave the proceeds to their friends on Wall Street.
Cindy was at Marthas vineyard while the pres was on vacation I heard, not that the press would report it I think she was hoping for Russia today and others to cover it
MSNBC and FOX are a joke to the journalism profession. CBS, NBC, and ABC I think are pretty good though. Hell CBS fired Dan Rather and a producer because they diminished the integrity of the station with a hit piece on president bush. I get my news from Reuters and AP. I like to hear the facts, I don't like to hear comentary and opinions with my news unless it's on one of the sunday morning news programs.
This country was built on the priciples of A) providing for yourself, and B) voluntarily helping those who can't. Thats the America I want to live in. I don't mind paying some taxes for the good of the country, things like defense, some infrastructure, etc., and I enjoy helping others, but I simply can't do much if the feds are taking 1/3rd to 1/2 my money. We are a fundamentally good people, willing to help out our own citizens, as well as the world, but we can't donate what we don't have!
Yeah, this clip doesn't include the crowd chanting "kick them out, kick them out"...it also doesn't include Moran actually demanding ID from a man who wanted to pose a question- a man who turned out to be from his district! The clip also doesn't include Moran apologizing to the man later, so pretty fair and balanced reporting, I think!
I love how fox news left out the part where most of the crowd shouted "KICK THEM OUT, KICK THEM OUT" just before the police escorted the protestors outside.
(NHS) The HealthCare here in the UK is Death by Filth (MRSA is filth) Socialist Style !........''Our fore parent fought for nothing it seems eh'' ? Communism/Socialism and let's not for get the Fascist's....."Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini...Ps They all do have one thing in common though,and that is they've all help to ''Murder'' Tens of Millions of ''Christians''!!...Please think about it!!....
2010GOP if people cant work then they are eligible for disability or workers comp.
people can sell their cars if they cant make the payments, they can cancel their cable. What they cant do is cancel their 50k medical bill... thats what causes bankruptcy.
The Fox coverage is so biased and edited to be misleading. The real story is that supporters overwhelmed the opponents. The cheers for Dr. Dean were from 2000 people and Fox shows the 200 people who were yelling at him. Even many of my conservative neighbors in the stands were dismayed by the distruptions and said out loud that it made them look bad and they wanted some of the people removed, too.
Dean is a liar and left wing lune. Are we not happy with glee that he failed at his presidential run. how would you like that nut case at the wheel??
Let's stop this sham health care proposal dead in its tracks. The dems are desperate and will cram anything they can down our throats. Tell them to stop!!
Healthcare should never be a for profit business. When you're ranked 37th in the world in healthcare, you'd be blind (or a republican) to see that something is fucked up.
Under the plan I hear about, people pay into it out of pocket, but people who prove they cant afford it get it subsidized, just how food stamps, etc.. worlks
You are hearing lies if you think everybody that wants the public plan gets it subsidized
You are thinking of a universal health care system and nobody is proposing that at this time
--------------------
I hear alot people like to say that the disagreeing person misses the point, but maybe we just have more info then you do
a) Corporations have already vowed they will pay the fine & dump their employees into the Govt plan (it's cheaper) - millions will not have a "choice"
b) Every Govt entitlement program operates in the red - you are naive to believe that taxpayers will not subsidize. Additionally, they are already looking at implementing a VAT tax on certain goods we all buy
c) Private Ins will be killed -- how then will we pay for 307 million people?
a) in that sense you already dont have a choice because you dont get to choose which private plan your employer goes with, so what is the difference between now and what the corps are planning to do.
The corps admit the public plan is cheaper, its cheaper in every other country then private care can offer, yet you are saying thats bad?
b) Cost, always the issue and always misguided.
Private insurance companies make profits but the insured can barely afford it.
Why don't you research the "whys" in the expensive cost of insurance ---- many of those things can be reformed specifically without dismantling our current system
I never trust an insurance company to put life above profit.
That goes against their purpose.
Its not like they can lose customers. They have operated this way for decades.
I do know that some reforms are suggested that dont include a public option, but its ironic that normally conservative and libertarian people are suggesting government step in to enforce ethical and economic business reform.
willieFTW: Blow the dust off your history books.....
"A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government" -Thomas Jefferson
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them" -Thomas Jefferson
"If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their money, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them, will deprive the people of their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered."
I don't like government spending millions on mega-churches to be built inside army bases. It's impossible for church & state to b completely seperate because citizens are both religious and part of the government. The Constitution exists so that things like fair access to healthcare can be worked into the system. The Constitution doesn't exist to protect insurance companies from ripping Americans off.
You're right it is irrefutable. Check out Section 8 of Article 1 of the constitution. The government has the power to regulate industry. Combined with Life Liberty & The Pursuit of Happiness, that makes a good case for why we should have healthcare for every citizen, so that they can have their right of LIFE and PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS. Are you against anti-trust laws and the existence of the FDA?
Also the Constitution doesn't mention education at all but we have things like the no-child-left-behind act... Most things are left best to people and industry but a very few things like education and healthcare should have a national involvement.
my comparison is if it's LEGAL for fire departments and libraries to exist then it's LEGAL for all americans to have healthcare.There's 20 different approaches one can take to come to a conclusion that healthcare reform is good or bad. But the main question is: DO CITIZENS OF AMERICA DESERVE HEALTHCARE? how great is our country really if we dont provide healthcare for all our citizens..
"I help fund my local fire department, police, etc. because "I" benefit from them"
Yeah you benefit because they're there if you need it. Same with a public health insurance option.. it's there if you need it. Can you please explain why American's shouldn't be guarenteed medical care?
Every hospital guarantees emergency care. But there's no guarantee that people won't be broke because of it. Also there's no guarantee of preventitive care for Americans. The quicker we catch diseases the less they are to cure, and the less tax payers will have to pay in the end. You're stuck on the short-term on this whole topic. You don't see the long-term that a healthier America is a stronger America. For you it's about Democrat Obama, for me it's about fairness for a better tomorrow.
willieFTW: OK --- thanks for proving to me how uninformed you are
County/Public clinics & hospitals treat people who are uninsured and/or poor --- even for "preventative" care. These are "government" ran
People aren't going for preventative care as provided above -- there will be no difference
Obama admits this will kill private insurance ---- how do you propose we pay for 307 million people when they can't figure out how to pay for 46 million now?
In fact, from the number of bankrupcies that come from medical care, I would say private industrys customers operate in the red.
In fact, its gotten so expensive that private insurers are setting up plans to ship customers overseas for medical treatment because they can only make a profit by screwing over the customer and shipping them off to other countries better medical care services.
Even with a VAT and taxes, its still likely to be cheaper and less stressful then private plans.
Trying to garner sympathy for those whose profits will take the greatest hit in a debate about healthcare is a pretty big gamble GOP. I don't think you'll find much support for that, but good luck anyway.
Allow me to elucidate so as to avoid any confusion, GOP.
Last I heard, farmers, grocers, clothing manufacturers and homebuilders never denied PAYING customers their services because of pre-existing conditions.
What the government is offering is an alternate plan (one that will NOT replace an individual's plan should he or she like the plan they have) to offer those who can't afford healthcare the opportunity to obtain it cheaply.
frink: You're talking about 2 different things.. i.e. market regulation & profit
a) Pre-existing condition clauses are very rare, especially thru employers which is the majority of policies. But, since you want to compare -- are clothing manuf's forced to sell in certain stores? Are homebuilders forced to build in certain areas?
b) You obviously haven't done your research. This health care bill will replace many individual's plan & will kill the private market -- Obama even admitted
Reply to b) There are many healthcare bills proposed, not just one.
Its another failing of the conservatives that I have seen that they misrepresent the debate. There are many bills proposed, and the debate over which is best still rages on, so which bill are you talking about?
Second, Obama only admitted that if the private market is killed by the competition from a public plan that most people will have to pay into, then its a failure of the market and a better system is replacing it.
The US Post Office operates in the red, despite having a monopoly on first class mail.
Despite service comparisons, do you believe if the US Post Office offered overnight shipping at mega-reduced rates or free to millions that UPS & FedEx would be around long?
GOP, re: (b) taken from a page right out of the ol' GOP handbook. Nice! Free-market policies are why we're having this debate. Laud it all you'd like but it's not doing anybody any favors save for those who stand to lose the most. Right?
As for pre-existing coverage denial being rare...I'll defer to Rep. Frank and ask what planet you've been living on. Job-based coverage often places limits on the denial of coverage but doesn't eliminate totally.
Well, I don't know about that, but don't you think that a universal health care system is a sign of quality? Every other industralised nation has some form of government health care and they're doing fine.
Doctors and such should be able to make money, but what I meant was that the health of a person should not be decided by a businessman who knows that if he pays out money for health care that means less money for him.
What Talking point of the :Liberial Progressive Democratics party and Asshole Jim Moran and Howard Dean. Funny Howard Dean is a Dr, and what he must be one of those bad Doctor that you say we rank as a nation only 37th. Have you onece seen who rate the Untied States in providing Health care for it people , the United Nation and if you belive them than your Nuts Case.
Both sides? I knew people at the meeting, and I am a constituent of Jim Moran. Moran is an idiot, and he was rightfully shouted down and confronted on behalf of his idiocy. He consistently had "aides" snatching microphones out of constituents hands, and he deserved every jeer which he received. As for Dean, well, we all know how pathetic he truly is. Moran and Obama's cohorts attempted to stack the meeting, but we, the residents, beat him to the punch.
When I see Moran and Howard Dean I know not to expect the truth. Moran shows the arrogance of the Democrats in having people physically removed from his presence.
What about Bush's townhalls ,They were ONLY to select people who would whoot and hooar for him like he was good, in fact if he ever had an open town hall he would probably get 100 shoes thrown in his face
Howard Dean will lie in Idaho, and in Michigan, and in California, and in Pennsylvania, and in Oklahoma, and in Nevada, and in Alabama and in Washington DC. Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeee Haaaaaaaaaa !
Fox news is propaganda for the right wing and anybody that believes Hannity and all his cronies on Fox are living in a dream world, and just being used by the Millionares in the healthcare industry ...wise up americans ...just wise up
If the Obama plan were to take off Millions of people would leave their crappy healthcare , that doesn't provide and go to a public option and their scared to death of a massive migration to a public option .....
No, I am scared because this entire plan does nothing to reduce the actual cost of healthcare. Even with the public-option the actual costs of healthcare will continue to rise and even public-option insurance will become more expensive.
Why do European countries pay a fraction for pills and procedures? There are laws restricting the U.S. gov. from negotiating prices with healthcare providers.
Medicare is in a position to negotiate lower prices but it doesn't... because of these laws.
Medicare is in a position to negotiate lower prices but it doesn't... because of these laws. The Obama made a back door deal with the Pharma and Health care industry .....But they don't want it but a deal is in place.
Of course. That's the beauty of America. But screaming and shouting like a bunch of idiots without giving him even an opportunity to address to the people his perspective is uncalled for.
So we should listen to a Governor who most likely hasn't read the bill, but definitely doesn't have a vote on the matter?
We already know his perspective... it isn't going to be any fresh information. These clowns have stopped listening to their constituents. They don't read the mail and they don't answer the phone calls.
The only way to get their attention is to be boisterous.
Someday when you try to back your liberal cause... you will experience the same thing.
I am no liberal, and I am no conservative. I am a nonpartisan American who sides with both Democrats and Republicans at times when I feel one is really concerned about the betterment of the country. I would say the exact same thing of a bunch of CODEPINK or PETA radicals crashed some Republican town hall meeting.
So what's your solution of blocking the bill? Attend every meeting in the nation and be rowdy so the reps will feel sorry for you and not vote?
My solution would be to attend every townhall event and be heard. Because these tools on the left and right are not listening.
Feel sorry? No, I believe the people shouldn't fear the government, the government should fear the people. Our Congressmen don't want to hear us... so we have to make a lot of noise.
Do you think the Mass media would have even covered this public descent if it had been quiet and civil?
Someday the tables will turn and you will try calling your Representative to complain and you will get the brush-off because you don't have a big check in your hand.
And you will get angry because your representative doesn't reply to your calls or letters. Liberals weren't screaming when the liberals were doing this stuff.
Why are you generalizing? Why do you assume I am a stupid redneck? I don't spend weekends on Martha's Vineyard.
If you want to see stupid, look at all of the Bush protesters holding pictures of Bush comparing him to Hitler. Look at the liberals getting arrested at the Denver RNC convention.
You are such a hypocrite and it doesn't even bother you. Defending a party that has lost all of it's ideals. But you don't even know what a real liberal is.
Every time I see Griff Jenkins I think, "Colbert Report."
Why are we just focusing on insurance costs? We all know the cost of healthcare is driving up insurance costs. So why aren't we trying to reduce costs?
Why aren't we paying the same prices as the European Union for drugs and services?
People go to Canada to get pills because the Canadian gov. is negotiating prices. While our gov. actually passes laws forbidding competition for prices.
You think Obama would be trying to lower the cost of drugs and services instead of just going after the insurance companies. What is driving up insurance prices?
We should go after the root cause of high prices. We should be negotiating like European countries do. They only pay 1/10 what we do for prescription drugs. Why?
Oh yea thats one of the main problems in this world, there are alot of people who well really don't care about anyone but theirself, and we need to come together to get things done. Life will get better, so no need to worry.
You are right. It doesn't matter if you are liberal are conservative. They aren't listening. Unless you have a big check in your hand, they don't care about you.
Exactly. They don't listen they don't care. I heard an interview from the organizer for Code-Pink, an anti-war movement. She said it took her 3 years to get a sit-down with Pelosi.
They aren't listening they don't care what we think.
Both sides don't care. I don't like Pelosi, Reid,or Palin. All 3 are moron, if people want change they'd start voting for the smaller parties. Look at Afghanistan, they have tons of people that ran to be elected. Now those people know that they have to do a job so their party succeeds and their people know it.
But fellow Americans don't vote for vote for the same 2 parties. So nothing will change.
Your right, both sides don't care. There is little or no difference between the two parties. We need more parties in the mix so politicians feel a sense of competition. No more of this voting for the lesser of two evils.
The only thing keeping new parties out is to get on the ballet in every state you have to do different certifications for each one. It's a process the Dems and GOP but in to stay in power.
Then you need money to travel and get your word out. If one of the parties want to do this they'll have to start in one state at a time and grow over the next few decades.
Basically another big-gov. 500 page bill written in legalese. Which makes it even harder for the average person to run for office. You can be fined $10,000 for not filing contributions properly. Even if you are running for city-council of a small town.
"And it's just a classic example of the way in which the law benefits insiders and those who are already established,"
The ones standing in the way of Uhbama care are dems not repubs. The dems can vote anything into law they want... go for it... own it bitches lmao!!!!
Lot of us.............I think thats call MAJORITY RULES!. and the dems have a majority so stop being little bitches and go for it, yeah, you go for it and you asses is out come 2010
thats all well and good, but you're not the majority. you're just a very loud and obnoxious minority.
and even if i granted you your premise that you were a majority, that doesnt make you right. a great majority of people were once convinced that the world was flat.
just because the majority of people thought that didnt make the world flat. it was still round.
Oh my god... Howard Dean's people threw out thugs and hecklers who wanted to disrupt his speech.
He should have done what George Bush did when Bush was President; make it illegal to protest and designate a "protest zone" several miles away from the event. If the present President had done that, they would have screamed we live in a dictatorship; but if Bush does it, it's ok.
Anyone see some hypocrisy?
JonDavidson 2 years ago
About time these piece of shit politicians, Reps & Dems a like, know how the people feel about them.
ClutchFan1971 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Dear Representative Moron - How unfair. Do you have ANY idea how difficult it is to out-yell Howard Dean???? You have to be a champion "hog-caller" to do it! The people attending that "town haller" should have been given blue ribbons- not asked to leave!
Howard Dean-The scream heard around the world "YEAAGHHHH!"
dkkght46 2 years ago
fox news is there to give you the illusion that someone care. but they dont
elelisrael 2 years ago
I like the way that Fox edited the news clip to exclude the fact that the loudest protester wasn't from the district, but a national protester and not relevant to the townhall meeting....
joel1239871 2 years ago
I WAS THERE, and Dean received a standing ovation, if you watch the whole clip, the main yelling was at the disrupters, we were chanting, "get out, " and "kick them out," and if you watch longer clips, you can see the ovation, and the crowd chanting in FAVOR of Dean. The people outside were disrupters, bussed in, not from my district. In the auditorium, in our BLUE area, the reform people outnumbered protesters by vast numbers. The matching signs were handed out by Obama people there.
JenniLitton 2 years ago 3
fascinating to me, considering I was actually present at this townhall meeting, how FOX spun what occurred at South Lakes. 1. The pro-healthcare people outnumbered those against by 8:1 ratio, Howard Dean was cheered with a standing ovation, and only a small group,not in our district,who must have lied to get in, were screaming at Gov Dean,and all the fools outside the event were not allowed in, to allow people from the 8th district in to hear their own congressman, they were bussed in to disrupt
JenniLitton 2 years ago
JHPDirector,
I think it is hilarious that the Dems spent 8 years opposed to the Iraq war, but now they have fallen silent. I don't see Cindy Sheehan in the news anymore.
Obama has continued the practice of rendition, renewed the FISA act, spent billions bailing out private industries and broken endless campaign promises.
Where is the outrage from the left? Dems have sold all of their principles and gave the proceeds to their friends on Wall Street.
fivestarmichael 2 years ago
Cindy was at Marthas vineyard while the pres was on vacation I heard, not that the press would report it I think she was hoping for Russia today and others to cover it
KARStarla 2 years ago
Before Obama was elected the woman was getting major MSM coverage. She was on MSNBC once a week... now she is a thorn in the liberals' side.
July was the deadliest month in Afghanistan.... did Keith Ober have her on? All news stations have a spin and an agenda... Not just Fox.
RT will probably do a story because they love taking a dig at America exposing our hypocrisy.
fivestarmichael 2 years ago
MSNBC and FOX are a joke to the journalism profession. CBS, NBC, and ABC I think are pretty good though. Hell CBS fired Dan Rather and a producer because they diminished the integrity of the station with a hit piece on president bush. I get my news from Reuters and AP. I like to hear the facts, I don't like to hear comentary and opinions with my news unless it's on one of the sunday morning news programs.
willieFTWparker39 2 years ago
its a shame people form their opinions on what infotainers say...
jusguyz 2 years ago
JHPDirector,
They shouldn't restrict anyone from attending a meeting that will affect national policy. It doesn't matter what district you live in.
fivestarmichael 2 years ago
This country was built on the priciples of A) providing for yourself, and B) voluntarily helping those who can't. Thats the America I want to live in. I don't mind paying some taxes for the good of the country, things like defense, some infrastructure, etc., and I enjoy helping others, but I simply can't do much if the feds are taking 1/3rd to 1/2 my money. We are a fundamentally good people, willing to help out our own citizens, as well as the world, but we can't donate what we don't have!
Thinkin4myself 2 years ago
Yeah, this clip doesn't include the crowd chanting "kick them out, kick them out"...it also doesn't include Moran actually demanding ID from a man who wanted to pose a question- a man who turned out to be from his district! The clip also doesn't include Moran apologizing to the man later, so pretty fair and balanced reporting, I think!
Thinkin4myself 2 years ago 2
I love how fox news left out the part where most of the crowd shouted "KICK THEM OUT, KICK THEM OUT" just before the police escorted the protestors outside.
For the FULL story check out TPMTV's version.
theastrusmega 2 years ago
God bless Randall Terry for standing up for the unborn, a wish i could've been there to support him.
sevencard2003 2 years ago
(NHS) The HealthCare here in the UK is Death by Filth (MRSA is filth) Socialist Style !........''Our fore parent fought for nothing it seems eh'' ? Communism/Socialism and let's not for get the Fascist's....."Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini...Ps They all do have one thing in common though,and that is they've all help to ''Murder'' Tens of Millions of ''Christians''!!...Please think about it!!....
freedombiteback 2 years ago
Surprise surprise Dean the Loon lies. Didn't he take every opportunity to undermine Pres. Bush? Yes, so I guess he was undermining the country.
zerotolerance4u 2 years ago 2
Watch Youtube Video: The Health Care Bill: What they DON'T want you to know!
wethepeopleUSA2012 2 years ago
2010GOP if people cant work then they are eligible for disability or workers comp.
people can sell their cars if they cant make the payments, they can cancel their cable. What they cant do is cancel their 50k medical bill... thats what causes bankruptcy.
mark1m 2 years ago
mark1m:
If they have a 50k medical bill, they were obviously not insured & should've went to a public/county hospital who treat the uninsured and/or poor
2010GOP 2 years ago
They want to stop real actual political debate over fear and confusion. Americans are looking quite stupid of late...
JustificationNation 2 years ago
The Fox coverage is so biased and edited to be misleading. The real story is that supporters overwhelmed the opponents. The cheers for Dr. Dean were from 2000 people and Fox shows the 200 people who were yelling at him. Even many of my conservative neighbors in the stands were dismayed by the distruptions and said out loud that it made them look bad and they wanted some of the people removed, too.
uncleleerules 2 years ago
Dean is a liar and left wing lune. Are we not happy with glee that he failed at his presidential run. how would you like that nut case at the wheel??
Let's stop this sham health care proposal dead in its tracks. The dems are desperate and will cram anything they can down our throats. Tell them to stop!!
They are scaring the hell out of grandma!!!
svengally1 2 years ago
Repent, America!!! All these things are God's Judgment falling on us.
We are living in the End Times! JESUS IS COMING SOON!!! ARE YOU SAVED?
ReadMatthew24 2 years ago
Comment removed
sjcpal 2 years ago
Healthcare should never be a for profit business. When you're ranked 37th in the world in healthcare, you'd be blind (or a republican) to see that something is fucked up.
StanMarsh1 2 years ago
StanMarsh:
Have you ever reviewed the WHO report to understand "how" they derived at a ranking of 37th for the US?
Most of the ranking was weighted on the mere fact of not having a Univ health care system --- not quality
The prognosis on 13 of 16 cancers is greatest in the US
There shouldn't be a profit on health care?
The 3 basic necessities are Food, Clothing & Shelter
Should farmers, grocers, clothing manuf's, homebuilders & apartment owners not be allowed a profit?
2010GOP 2 years ago
Water, the basic necessity for life, is free through tax money.
Food stamps/banks also.
Clothing has so many places to get it free, anybody without money can still be clothed.
There are homeless shelters and subsidized housing.
You fail to educate yourself about other countries health systems also.
Many of those that have universal care also have a private system to offer more for those that can afford it.
They have the most options, just like we do in the US for food, clothing, and shelter.
waltermh111 2 years ago
waltermh: The entire point went right over your head
On Food Stamps, Govt subsidized housing, etc. ---- one must prove they do not have the abillity to provide for themselves
On this health care bill, anyone can get on the Govt plan ---- and losses will be covered by me
2010GOP 2 years ago
Under the plan I hear about, people pay into it out of pocket, but people who prove they cant afford it get it subsidized, just how food stamps, etc.. worlks
You are hearing lies if you think everybody that wants the public plan gets it subsidized
You are thinking of a universal health care system and nobody is proposing that at this time
--------------------
I hear alot people like to say that the disagreeing person misses the point, but maybe we just have more info then you do
waltermh111 2 years ago
walter: I know what I'm talking about -research
a) Corporations have already vowed they will pay the fine & dump their employees into the Govt plan (it's cheaper) - millions will not have a "choice"
b) Every Govt entitlement program operates in the red - you are naive to believe that taxpayers will not subsidize. Additionally, they are already looking at implementing a VAT tax on certain goods we all buy
c) Private Ins will be killed -- how then will we pay for 307 million people?
2010GOP 2 years ago
a) in that sense you already dont have a choice because you dont get to choose which private plan your employer goes with, so what is the difference between now and what the corps are planning to do.
The corps admit the public plan is cheaper, its cheaper in every other country then private care can offer, yet you are saying thats bad?
b) Cost, always the issue and always misguided.
Private insurance companies make profits but the insured can barely afford it.
waltermh111 2 years ago
walter:
Why don't you research the "whys" in the expensive cost of insurance ---- many of those things can be reformed specifically without dismantling our current system
2010GOP 2 years ago
I never trust an insurance company to put life above profit.
That goes against their purpose.
Its not like they can lose customers. They have operated this way for decades.
I do know that some reforms are suggested that dont include a public option, but its ironic that normally conservative and libertarian people are suggesting government step in to enforce ethical and economic business reform.
waltermh111 2 years ago
walter:
a) It's amazing you trust Government -- the founding fathers even warned you of such
b) The Repub's have proposed reform plans since 2005 -- how do you know they are failures if they've never been implemented
c) People who don't go to public/county hospitals now for preventative, they won't go regardless. LOL. You propose a mandate on that?
d) People & Employers have the ability to drop insurers -- no choice with Government
Wake up & Educate yourself
2010GOP 2 years ago
stfu.
thomas jefferson warned us of corporations too.
willieFTWparker39 2 years ago
willieFTW: Blow the dust off your history books.....
"A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government" -Thomas Jefferson
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them" -Thomas Jefferson
2010GOP 2 years ago 2
"If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their money, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them, will deprive the people of their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered."
TJ
willieFTWparker39 2 years ago 2
willieFTW:
Do you even understand the meaning behind that?
Tell me, which party is more apt to support auditing the federal reserve??
2010GOP 2 years ago
"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other. "
WOW! You actually had the courage to post that? I thought a few days ago, you SWORE church & state should be completely separate??
2010GOP 2 years ago 2
I don't like government spending millions on mega-churches to be built inside army bases. It's impossible for church & state to b completely seperate because citizens are both religious and part of the government. The Constitution exists so that things like fair access to healthcare can be worked into the system. The Constitution doesn't exist to protect insurance companies from ripping Americans off.
willieFTWparker39 2 years ago
willieFTW: You have everything precisely backwards.....
The Constitution exists to limit the power of Government on individuals & industry...i.e. free market
Dec of Independece -- Life, Liberty & the PURSUIT of happiness
Do any of those things mean anything to you? Do you not see the key word "pursuit" of happiness --- individual responsibilty.
It's all irrefutable
2010GOP 2 years ago
You're right it is irrefutable. Check out Section 8 of Article 1 of the constitution. The government has the power to regulate industry. Combined with Life Liberty & The Pursuit of Happiness, that makes a good case for why we should have healthcare for every citizen, so that they can have their right of LIFE and PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS. Are you against anti-trust laws and the existence of the FDA?
willieFTWparker39 2 years ago
Also the Constitution doesn't mention education at all but we have things like the no-child-left-behind act... Most things are left best to people and industry but a very few things like education and healthcare should have a national involvement.
willieFTWparker39 2 years ago
willieFTW: You're so lost.....
You're comparing consumer safety net programs, etc. to entitlement programs!
2010GOP 2 years ago
my comparison is if it's LEGAL for fire departments and libraries to exist then it's LEGAL for all americans to have healthcare.There's 20 different approaches one can take to come to a conclusion that healthcare reform is good or bad. But the main question is: DO CITIZENS OF AMERICA DESERVE HEALTHCARE? how great is our country really if we dont provide healthcare for all our citizens..
willieFTWparker39 2 years ago
willie:
Are you crazy?
I help fund my local fire department, police, etc. because "I" benefit from them
And again, you're apparently not understanding the difference between those & entitlement programs
Furthermore, you're proving how brainwashed you are with the Democrats' word-play. Learn the difference between health "care" & health "insurance"
County/Public clinics & hospitals are located in virtually every county in the nation to treat the uninsured and/or poor
2010GOP 2 years ago
"I help fund my local fire department, police, etc. because "I" benefit from them"
Yeah you benefit because they're there if you need it. Same with a public health insurance option.. it's there if you need it. Can you please explain why American's shouldn't be guarenteed medical care?
willieFTWparker39 2 years ago
First of all, why are you still confused between health "care" & health "insurance"?
County/Public clinics & hospitals GUARANTEE anyone medical "care"
2010GOP 2 years ago
Every hospital guarantees emergency care. But there's no guarantee that people won't be broke because of it. Also there's no guarantee of preventitive care for Americans. The quicker we catch diseases the less they are to cure, and the less tax payers will have to pay in the end. You're stuck on the short-term on this whole topic. You don't see the long-term that a healthier America is a stronger America. For you it's about Democrat Obama, for me it's about fairness for a better tomorrow.
willieFTWparker39 2 years ago
willieFTW: OK --- thanks for proving to me how uninformed you are
County/Public clinics & hospitals treat people who are uninsured and/or poor --- even for "preventative" care. These are "government" ran
People aren't going for preventative care as provided above -- there will be no difference
Obama admits this will kill private insurance ---- how do you propose we pay for 307 million people when they can't figure out how to pay for 46 million now?
USE YOUR BRAIN
2010GOP 2 years ago 2
"Because power corrupts, society's demands for moral authority and character increase as the importance of the position increases. "
"If we do not lay out ourselves in the service of mankind whom should we serve? "
"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other. "
"There are two educations. One should teach us how to make a living and the other how to live. "
John Adams
willieFTWparker39 2 years ago
Last, we have had these reforms suggested by conservatives before, didnt help.
You think this is the first time conservatives have tried to destroy liberal reform and ignore it when they had the power to fix things?
waltermh111 2 years ago
In fact, from the number of bankrupcies that come from medical care, I would say private industrys customers operate in the red.
In fact, its gotten so expensive that private insurers are setting up plans to ship customers overseas for medical treatment because they can only make a profit by screwing over the customer and shipping them off to other countries better medical care services.
Even with a VAT and taxes, its still likely to be cheaper and less stressful then private plans.
waltermh111 2 years ago
walter:
Do you ever do any of your own research, or do you just repeat talking points?
Bankruptcies due to "medical" are many times due to a person becoming ill or injured & unable to work
This health care bill isn't going to fix that --- people will still have to cover their car payments & other bills
2010GOP 2 years ago 2
The problem is they cant afford preventative treatment or early testing, therefore their condition gets worse before they get care.
Its called the underinsured.
Its also called high cost of deductibles and co-pay for people that can already barely afford the insurance.
Once they find out about the illness, even when its late, cannot do much about it because of the bills
You seem to have your own talking points.
Obviously they become too ill to keep a job when they cant afford proper care.
waltermh111 2 years ago
c) Most people will still be paying a premium for the pulic option, only a small amount will be subsidised
What your trying to convince us of is like saying that even middle class families can get food stamps
No, they cant, and neither will they have their insurance subsidized
We will find a way to pay for it, but it running in the red wont be much different then how the HMOs run their customers into often enough
You remember how high insurance rises compared to pay?
waltermh111 2 years ago
Trying to garner sympathy for those whose profits will take the greatest hit in a debate about healthcare is a pretty big gamble GOP. I don't think you'll find much support for that, but good luck anyway.
frinkahedron2004 2 years ago
frinkahedron: Is this what you're saying?
3 Basic Necessities in life: Food, Clothing & Shelter
How dare farmers & grocers make a profit
How dare clothing manuf's make a profit
How dare homebuilders & apartment owners make a profit
Those things are my "right". Why should someone make a profit off of them?
2010GOP 2 years ago
Allow me to elucidate so as to avoid any confusion, GOP.
Last I heard, farmers, grocers, clothing manufacturers and homebuilders never denied PAYING customers their services because of pre-existing conditions.
What the government is offering is an alternate plan (one that will NOT replace an individual's plan should he or she like the plan they have) to offer those who can't afford healthcare the opportunity to obtain it cheaply.
Who stands to lose the most? Any thoughts, GOP?
frinkahedron2004 2 years ago
frink: You're talking about 2 different things.. i.e. market regulation & profit
a) Pre-existing condition clauses are very rare, especially thru employers which is the majority of policies. But, since you want to compare -- are clothing manuf's forced to sell in certain stores? Are homebuilders forced to build in certain areas?
b) You obviously haven't done your research. This health care bill will replace many individual's plan & will kill the private market -- Obama even admitted
2010GOP 2 years ago
Reply to b) There are many healthcare bills proposed, not just one.
Its another failing of the conservatives that I have seen that they misrepresent the debate. There are many bills proposed, and the debate over which is best still rages on, so which bill are you talking about?
Second, Obama only admitted that if the private market is killed by the competition from a public plan that most people will have to pay into, then its a failure of the market and a better system is replacing it.
waltermh111 2 years ago
walter: If you've been paying attention, you would know that HR3200 is the front-runner in this debate.
Again, you're naive & understand little about economics and business if you can't grasp how this will destroy private insurance
a) Govt will force citizens onto their plan if they are uninsured or, if "Govt" feels one's plan is not adequate
b) Govt doesn't have to make a profit -- Private does
c) Govt can cover losses w/taxpayer money -- Private cannot
2010GOP 2 years ago
walter: Think of it this way
The US Post Office operates in the red, despite having a monopoly on first class mail.
Despite service comparisons, do you believe if the US Post Office offered overnight shipping at mega-reduced rates or free to millions that UPS & FedEx would be around long?
2010GOP 2 years ago
GOP, re: (b) taken from a page right out of the ol' GOP handbook. Nice! Free-market policies are why we're having this debate. Laud it all you'd like but it's not doing anybody any favors save for those who stand to lose the most. Right?
As for pre-existing coverage denial being rare...I'll defer to Rep. Frank and ask what planet you've been living on. Job-based coverage often places limits on the denial of coverage but doesn't eliminate totally.
frinkahedron2004 2 years ago
frink:
The ONLY exclusion for pre-existing condition clauses in an employer provided health plan is if: the diagnosis was with 6 months
It's rare. Period. Someone would have to be diagnosed within weeks prior & happen to be changing employers
2010GOP 2 years ago
I like that... "grow your own", "sew your own" and "build your own" :D
KARStarla 2 years ago
KARStarla:
LOL. That's hysterical ~ great catch phrase for the analogy I've been posting=)
2010GOP 2 years ago
Well, I don't know about that, but don't you think that a universal health care system is a sign of quality? Every other industralised nation has some form of government health care and they're doing fine.
Doctors and such should be able to make money, but what I meant was that the health of a person should not be decided by a businessman who knows that if he pays out money for health care that means less money for him.
StanMarsh1 2 years ago
What Talking point of the :Liberial Progressive Democratics party and Asshole Jim Moran and Howard Dean. Funny Howard Dean is a Dr, and what he must be one of those bad Doctor that you say we rank as a nation only 37th. Have you onece seen who rate the Untied States in providing Health care for it people , the United Nation and if you belive them than your Nuts Case.
lifeline52002 2 years ago 2
Take my payments, co-pays, deducible, 20%, out of network and give it all to the government for Single Payer Healthcare HR676
We will all still save money.
Thank FOX, stick with what you do best.... Cartoons.
FlowerClown 2 years ago 2
Well then, GUMMYBEAYUH, I guess you're right! I have no freaking clue about reality. :)
JustinDTran 2 years ago
Goebbels would be very proud of FUX NEWS.
Lie, lie, lie, spin, pause, hip thrust, spin and lie. ( repeat ad nauseum)
Bunnicula71 2 years ago 3
South Lakes High School in Reston... that's my school and my gym!
But seriously just make healthcare free like Canada does and everything will be a little simpler.
JustinDTran 2 years ago 2
Sorry "Justin", but you obviously haven't a clue towards reality. "Free Healthcare" is NOT Free, as there is no such thing.
GUMMYBEAYUH 2 years ago
LOL this is like watching the daily show hahahahahahahahahahaha
3star2nr 2 years ago
LOLOLOL hannity is such a sham. He didnt even show both sides of the intervieww
3star2nr 2 years ago
Both sides? I knew people at the meeting, and I am a constituent of Jim Moran. Moran is an idiot, and he was rightfully shouted down and confronted on behalf of his idiocy. He consistently had "aides" snatching microphones out of constituents hands, and he deserved every jeer which he received. As for Dean, well, we all know how pathetic he truly is. Moran and Obama's cohorts attempted to stack the meeting, but we, the residents, beat him to the punch.
GUMMYBEAYUH 2 years ago
goodluck USA. lol
scolexx 2 years ago
When I see Moran and Howard Dean I know not to expect the truth. Moran shows the arrogance of the Democrats in having people physically removed from his presence.
rascalcap1 2 years ago
What about Bush's townhalls ,They were ONLY to select people who would whoot and hooar for him like he was good, in fact if he ever had an open town hall he would probably get 100 shoes thrown in his face
sjcpal 2 years ago
Howard Dean will lie in Idaho, and in Michigan, and in California, and in Pennsylvania, and in Oklahoma, and in Nevada, and in Alabama and in Washington DC. Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeee Haaaaaaaaaa !
demslibssuck 2 years ago 3
Funny?
sjcpal 2 years ago
Is Dean Barney Frank's lover?
TiredOldFart 2 years ago
HA HA HA HA HA! Good one!
demslibssuck 2 years ago
Fox news is propaganda for the right wing and anybody that believes Hannity and all his cronies on Fox are living in a dream world, and just being used by the Millionares in the healthcare industry ...wise up americans ...just wise up
sjcpal 2 years ago
The healthcare industry will make huge dollars from Obama's plan... Why would the conservatives oppose it?
fivestarmichael 2 years ago
If the Obama plan were to take off Millions of people would leave their crappy healthcare , that doesn't provide and go to a public option and their scared to death of a massive migration to a public option .....
sjcpal 2 years ago
No, I am scared because this entire plan does nothing to reduce the actual cost of healthcare. Even with the public-option the actual costs of healthcare will continue to rise and even public-option insurance will become more expensive.
Why do European countries pay a fraction for pills and procedures? There are laws restricting the U.S. gov. from negotiating prices with healthcare providers.
Medicare is in a position to negotiate lower prices but it doesn't... because of these laws.
fivestarmichael 2 years ago
Medicare is in a position to negotiate lower prices but it doesn't... because of these laws. The Obama made a back door deal with the Pharma and Health care industry .....But they don't want it but a deal is in place.
sjcpal 2 years ago
That's right... but they have us all beating this drum that the reason behind high costs is insurance. They are playing us against each other.
Big-Pharma will be the big winner. While we are arguing over death-panels and insurance costs.
fivestarmichael 2 years ago
"They really don't belong here and I am going to ask them to leave."
Who is they? Are they non-Americans? Last time I checked we had the right to redress our leaders.
fivestarmichael 2 years ago
Of course. That's the beauty of America. But screaming and shouting like a bunch of idiots without giving him even an opportunity to address to the people his perspective is uncalled for.
TwoAiren 2 years ago
TwoAiren,
So we should listen to a Governor who most likely hasn't read the bill, but definitely doesn't have a vote on the matter?
We already know his perspective... it isn't going to be any fresh information. These clowns have stopped listening to their constituents. They don't read the mail and they don't answer the phone calls.
The only way to get their attention is to be boisterous.
Someday when you try to back your liberal cause... you will experience the same thing.
fivestarmichael 2 years ago 2
How fast people generalize these days.
I am no liberal, and I am no conservative. I am a nonpartisan American who sides with both Democrats and Republicans at times when I feel one is really concerned about the betterment of the country. I would say the exact same thing of a bunch of CODEPINK or PETA radicals crashed some Republican town hall meeting.
So what's your solution of blocking the bill? Attend every meeting in the nation and be rowdy so the reps will feel sorry for you and not vote?
TwoAiren 2 years ago
TwoAiren,
My solution would be to attend every townhall event and be heard. Because these tools on the left and right are not listening.
Feel sorry? No, I believe the people shouldn't fear the government, the government should fear the people. Our Congressmen don't want to hear us... so we have to make a lot of noise.
Do you think the Mass media would have even covered this public descent if it had been quiet and civil?
fivestarmichael 2 years ago
Someday the tables will turn and you will try calling your Representative to complain and you will get the brush-off because you don't have a big check in your hand.
And you will get angry because your representative doesn't reply to your calls or letters. Liberals weren't screaming when the liberals were doing this stuff.
clothesmindedliberal 2 years ago
yeah you have the right to be a stupid fucking redneck .....but it's making you look stupid
sjcpal 2 years ago
Why are you generalizing? Why do you assume I am a stupid redneck? I don't spend weekends on Martha's Vineyard.
If you want to see stupid, look at all of the Bush protesters holding pictures of Bush comparing him to Hitler. Look at the liberals getting arrested at the Denver RNC convention.
You are such a hypocrite and it doesn't even bother you. Defending a party that has lost all of it's ideals. But you don't even know what a real liberal is.
fivestarmichael 2 years ago
Every time I see Griff Jenkins I think, "Colbert Report."
Why are we just focusing on insurance costs? We all know the cost of healthcare is driving up insurance costs. So why aren't we trying to reduce costs?
Why aren't we paying the same prices as the European Union for drugs and services?
People go to Canada to get pills because the Canadian gov. is negotiating prices. While our gov. actually passes laws forbidding competition for prices.
It's a scam people.
fivestarmichael 2 years ago
You think Obama would be trying to lower the cost of drugs and services instead of just going after the insurance companies. What is driving up insurance prices?
We should go after the root cause of high prices. We should be negotiating like European countries do. They only pay 1/10 what we do for prescription drugs. Why?
clothesmindedliberal 2 years ago
Randall Terry, media whore and all around nutcase. A dangerous nutcase.
SuziQ1953 2 years ago
YES! that's my shchool!!!
FUCK YES!
MarkCooz 2 years ago
this is my school. lol.
Sylv0r 2 years ago
Seems if you don't want the truth out just scream your lungs out. Kids do it all the time.
Duobitdezo 2 years ago
More people complaining about health care, someone needs to just fix the sh** and get done with it, damn man
MysteryRidahz 2 years ago
Seems the conservatives don't want to fix anything this days. I don't agree with the Liberals on everything but working together will help.
Duobitdezo 2 years ago
Oh yea thats one of the main problems in this world, there are alot of people who well really don't care about anyone but theirself, and we need to come together to get things done. Life will get better, so no need to worry.
peace
MysteryRidahz 2 years ago
Duobitdezo,
When is the last time you called your representative in Congress? I am sure you will lie and say he/she got on the phone and talked to you.
However, I have had no luck talking to my Representative. I end up talking to a 22 year-old intern who can't answer any of my questions.
Apparently I have to have a huge check in my hand to my Representatives attention.
Or I have to go to a townhall and yell at the top of my lungs.
fivestarmichael 2 years ago 2
You are right. It doesn't matter if you are liberal are conservative. They aren't listening. Unless you have a big check in your hand, they don't care about you.
clothesmindedliberal 2 years ago 3
Call my reps, the Gov. in SC don't give a shit about us. People have tried and never go in touch.
When I get the chance I ask the hard questions and when they don't give a straight answer I point it out.
Duobitdezo 2 years ago 2
Exactly. They don't listen they don't care. I heard an interview from the organizer for Code-Pink, an anti-war movement. She said it took her 3 years to get a sit-down with Pelosi.
They aren't listening they don't care what we think.
fivestarmichael 2 years ago
Both sides don't care. I don't like Pelosi, Reid,or Palin. All 3 are moron, if people want change they'd start voting for the smaller parties. Look at Afghanistan, they have tons of people that ran to be elected. Now those people know that they have to do a job so their party succeeds and their people know it.
But fellow Americans don't vote for vote for the same 2 parties. So nothing will change.
Duobitdezo 2 years ago 2
Your right, both sides don't care. There is little or no difference between the two parties. We need more parties in the mix so politicians feel a sense of competition. No more of this voting for the lesser of two evils.
fivestarmichael 2 years ago 2
The only thing keeping new parties out is to get on the ballet in every state you have to do different certifications for each one. It's a process the Dems and GOP but in to stay in power.
Then you need money to travel and get your word out. If one of the parties want to do this they'll have to start in one state at a time and grow over the next few decades.
Duobitdezo 2 years ago
Yes thank the McCain/Feingold campaign laws. Which pretty much gaurantee a two party system.
We have a lot more commonalities then differences. We need to start taking this country back.
Fuck McCain, Fuck Bush and Fuck Obama.
fivestarmichael 2 years ago
Or, fuck the Government period.
Can you tell me more about these campaign laws?
Duobitdezo 2 years ago
Basically another big-gov. 500 page bill written in legalese. Which makes it even harder for the average person to run for office. You can be fined $10,000 for not filing contributions properly. Even if you are running for city-council of a small town.
"And it's just a classic example of the way in which the law benefits insiders and those who are already established,"
Google,
"Campaign Finance Reform Meets Unintended Consequences"
Except the consequences were intended.
fivestarmichael 2 years ago
Thank you. Are you on Myspace or Twitter?
Duobitdezo 2 years ago
No... just Youtube. It takes up enough of my time :)
fivestarmichael 2 years ago
OH I CAN NEVER GET ENOUGH OF gRIFF THE CHURCH LADY
bulldri9 2 years ago
Dean looked like he was scared shitless lol
iceman1960 2 years ago 3
I love u DEAN. ur the man
djtarique 2 years ago
Dems control congress... up or down baby!
The ones standing in the way of Uhbama care are dems not repubs. The dems can vote anything into law they want... go for it... own it bitches lmao!!!!
iceman1960 2 years ago 3
holy crapolaaaaaa......rick moranis covering the mob.
gd i love this job.
1019drummer 2 years ago
wow dean was owned
tubaboy71 2 years ago 2
Dean is a pathetic lying sack of crap.
iceman1960 2 years ago 3
I would have kicked them out but I would also have punched their moron repub faces. That would teach them.
burntonion05 2 years ago
gotta love the mob mentality.
'WE'RE RIGHT BECAUSE THERE'S A LOT OF US AND WE'RE REALLY LOUD"
anonymolol 2 years ago
Lot of us.............I think thats call MAJORITY RULES!. and the dems have a majority so stop being little bitches and go for it, yeah, you go for it and you asses is out come 2010
rollertider 2 years ago
thats all well and good, but you're not the majority. you're just a very loud and obnoxious minority.
and even if i granted you your premise that you were a majority, that doesnt make you right. a great majority of people were once convinced that the world was flat.
just because the majority of people thought that didnt make the world flat. it was still round.
anonymolol 2 years ago