Any group of people who can call themselves the OWNERS of a NFL franchise, the ONLY team that is owned by the "public", and are members in good standing of an American labor organization, are going to be a bitch to stop if some politician starts coming for their rights...
He is right people: united we will always win!now we gathered around Ron Paul and are fighting against powerful enemy: establishment with media it owns
not Bank of America, Chase, Wells Fargo all have been bailled out by THE FEDERAL RESERVE for the WHO that owns them and we are paying for their bills.....
@croquystyle anon doesnt post what they are doing because they are a loosely organized group of people. its best to think about them much like churches, they all have similar beliefs but they dont all commune with one-another on everything. if one group wants to do something they go and do it. they rarely ask for other groups help unless its a big project. most members of annon only know members in their own isolated group. the origin of anon is 4chan but i would NOT go to that site
People close your ( CHASE BACK ) ( BANK OF AMERICA ) WASHINGTON MUTUAL ) AND ( CITY BANK ) THEY ARE CHARGING YOU MONEY TO HAVE YOUR MONEY IN THEIR BANKS. WE MAKE THEM RICH AND THEY CHARGE US FOR IT O YEA THEY GOT MONEY OF OUR TAXES AND THEY CHARGE US TOO HELL NO I CLOSE MY ACCOUNT HERE IN ILLINOIS PEOPLE ARE CLOSING ACCOUNTS ITS YOUR TURN GO OPEN YOUR ACCOUNT IN YOUR LOCAL BANK
@LAMBO8591 not Bank of America, Chase, Wells Fargo all have been bailled out by THE FEDERAL RESERVE for the WHO that owns them and we are paying for their bills.....
h ttps://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions/%21/petition/examine-government’s-failure-investigate-and-prosecute-church-scientology-crime-fraud-and-abuse/L27wg021?utm_source=wh.gov&utm_medium=shorturl&utm_campaign=shorturl
@ironwork92000 I would disagree with you. My personal belief is that ANONymous is run by Julian Assange. The group has always showed unwavering support for Assange and his causes. They started in the UK, Assange's current home. Their mascot, Guy Fawkes, is the main character of one of Assange's favorite series. Keep in mind that Mr. Assange is a skilled hacker, who was convicted in Australia and has hacked classified systems at the DOD and Pentagon.
@ironwork92000 These are important but secodary issues. Anonymous seems to want to hit where it hurts the most : MONEY. I do the same with my little possibilities by rejecting all notices from police, judges, courts and wowernments and peacefully NOT conscenting to color of law regulations, by-laws and statuts that are not the concern of human beings but adressed to persons i.e. corporarions, fictuous 14 amendement creations of wowernements. You are not a person. You are a Human Being.
i like anonymous and what they stand for, but I live in wisconsin and I like what scott walker did. my kid in MPS school system now has a school within budget, our city is now under budget for 2012 and his employment plan should work well too. it might have been wrong to bypass laws and make his law enacted so quickly but hell, it helped the state and I'm sick of paying for state employees pensions. they should pay for their own pension like everyone else
fuck the middle class. they love gov labeling people in corrupt judicial system a criminal w/o fair trials, framed evidence,etc.. we don't live in a free market economy. we live in a dictatorship where people are bought and sold. if you can buy the right powerful people you remain free, if you can't afford to do so you remain a slave. this country is a piece of shit!! Can't wait for it to crumble!
Awww, poor Cenk got fired from MSNBC. Next time start sucking that Obama dick like the rest of the MSNBC crew and you might make something of yourself.
@omgitsBUTZIE yeah, and ...Why are"young turks" always so old, lol. Life is full of questions. Maybe the Middle-Aged Turks just didn't sound as good, but this guy's gotta to be 45 yo, lol. Are they still young when they get hair plugs and that operation that suctions out the tummy tire? And why does the 'Anonymous' Group just use UN logo? If they are "DE-centralized" and what they say---- why are they using UN and global logos, etc. Hardly "de-central" lol?
We are Anonymous. We do not approve of illegal acts unless absolutely necessary. WE ARE NOT TERRORISTS! We are activists! We are your neighbors who fight for freedom and justice throughout the world. Recently, there have been trolls and blackhats (hackers meaning only harm) claiming to be Anonymous that have been attacking us and our people. We will not stand for this! We are Anonymous, we are legion, we do not forgive, we do not forget, expect us!
our government allows this bullshit to happen im glad anonymous fights for our rights, thats why i would fight for anonymous before the united states, the us has failed its people and its time anonymous takes its rightful place democracy has failed its time for another civil war, unfortunately if you want peace you must have war
Anonymous are nothing but thieves. They stole credit card info. from the PSN, and sold it to the highest bidder. They act like anarchists, but are actually so money hungry, and greedy that they steal from hard working middle of the road people. It figures that the young turds would have a man crush on them.
@critter505 Do you have your head so far up your ass you forgot to look at the facts? Any form of major news media is willing to pin anything they can on freedom fighting groups. Even if Anon stole money, what the hell would they do with the money? They don't have an international political party requiring money to put out propaganda, to sway officials. They are many, they are non. They are Anon.
@bandgeekak87 "freedom fighting groups" They're turdnuggets that were neglected as children, hence have nothing better to do than learn the ins and outs of computers, and steal money they didn't earn. I don't give a fuck about you, or what the news media says. And, what would they do with the money? Who knows, and who the fuck cares. I bust my ass to earn a living, and some turd burgler comes and steals it w/o having the balls to come and try to take it? fuck em!
There is a war on the middle class and thankfully Wisconsin just won a major victory for the middle class with the defeat of Kloppenburg. Way to Go Wisconsin.
@bdelphan Just because the government uses force to monopolise X industry does not mean that X industry could not be provided voluntarily by peaceful people on the free market.
...and let me be more clear about this. The people who insisted on prejudice against blacks in the marketplace were rich white slave owners who cited the bible in court to justify slavery.
...and the ignorant bigots who bought that bullshit line of apologetics and continue to this day to embrace it, claiming that government conspired to take from them, that to which they were never entitled.
"It is much better if black youths are 85% employed, than when they are only 50% employed for the overall economy. Gov't created this problem."
Government?
No... popular prejudice by the white majority created the problem.
Legal processes, and government regulation making those prejudices forbidden in the marketplace are what has begun to turn the popular prejudice to an unwholesome stigma of bigotry.
Because sometimes the majority just doesn't do the right thing by itself.
Prohibition does not work. Copyright laws do not work. This is because there is no momentum behind those things by the majority of people. You cannot force a majority to do something by law they are completely against.
--
The black youth were 85% employed prior to 1965. Eventually after the civil rights act, which created a power imbalance, made it clear to small businesses that they can have too many problems with minorities because of the law, they stopped hiring them
Incorrect... They work as written. Intellectual property laws require less effort to enforce and are more effective than they have ever been... and they now protect the little guy, against the major corps that have stolen works with impunity for the sake of greed.
"The black youth were 85% employed prior to 1965."
Your believes are not based in reality. People wanted alcohol and they got alcohol, gov't be damned. The only thing that achieved by gov't intervention was people like Al Capone got rich and people overpaid for booze.
Same with copyrights. The creative works are being shared left right and center without any regard to them, because to an average person it makes no sense to bother.
"You cannot force a majority to do something by law they are completely against."
a) you are not the majority... you're a shill for a group funded by major corp who continue to repeat the lie that you are the majority, when you are not.
b) The Constitution has boundaries beyond which even a majority may not transgress. It may not for example adopt a theocracy, which is part and parcel of your agenda.
@DeathofSpeech PS to DoS: I do intend on responding to your PM.
The level of understanding required to talking about your perspectives requires far more thought than what is needed for the dribble I gladly serve cold to the willfully blind.
I need time to think about what you said and I will respond. :)
Free trade = Migrant workers are unable to move freely and live in what used to be called company towns, where they are totally dependent and subject to abuses and deprivations. This is tyranny and a denial of human equality–and all of us are supporting it with our cheap I Pads and other electronic products. And yet we hear so much from our betters in the ruling class, along with their courtiers, that China is the model. Sure, if you don’t like freedom. Support only fair trade rules.
@zapparello Nah because when this president spends money here people say he is babysitting slackers or turning the US into a socialist nation. So funny how many people ran around saying he was too indecisive and weak to take action in Lybia. But when he did take action those same politicians said he didnt consult them about it. Basically they wanted extra camera time to weigh in and say it was the conservatives who were ready to fight. Hypocrites who have done nothing since January 2011.
@calgarsfists No, I just see a bunch of idiots with big financial problems, pointlessly and prooflessly bombing the people of a foreign sovereign country.
@DeathofSpeech I am referring to an Ayn Rand book. There is nothing that has contradicted me. There is nothing in the Bible that contradicts anything I have said either. Nothing - nada- zilch - zero. Only in your mind is there anything contradictory.
Are you off your meds or have you had too much Kool Aid today?
"There is nothing in the Bible that contradicts anything I have said either."
Since Aesaar has already posted some of the evidence and you've failed to respond, I'll put it down to a failure of reading comprehension on your part.
You've been a delight to work with and you've been extremely cooperative in exposing your ideology and agenda.
"you are wrong on all counts. First: free market existed and still partially exists today."
colourmegone quite correctly points out exactly the same things I've pointed out to you and I've watched you jump through hoops to refuse to understand that you've been lied to by whomever filled your head full of this shit.
"Also lasic eye surgery (and plastic surgery), where there is no gov't intervention,"
ROLF... you actually believe that isn't very strictly regulated?
@DeathofSpeech If there is a regulation, it means there are lots of people being extremely stupid and selfish don't care anybody else damaging others. Free market doesn't mean "You can being a stupid and selfish person". Obviously, we live in a world which honest people always have to deal with stupid everyday. Decent people KNEW it very well that free market is about choice and of course no harm to others at the same time.
"If there is a regulation, it means there are lots of people being extremely stupid and selfish don't care anybody else damaging others."
Exactly.
A "free market" cant' exist.
Only a market that is equitably regulated maintains the freedom of those in that market.
Decent people aren't the problem...
Regulation is required precisely because some things are too important to leave to free choice... like whether the plating shop dumps cyanide waste into the drinking water.
@DeathofSpeech The purpose of regulation is to effect the market to return it to "effeciency", by counteracting externalities. To assume those externalities aren't encouraged by a government in bed with the very companies they regulate is naive. In fact, most regulations are used for protectionism by large corporations, to prevent competition, and to assume near mercantilist monopolies. Very few address externality, and those that do cause other ones or are applied to all, not just law breakers.
@DeathofSpeech Enron went bankrupt, they weren't bailed out or "executed" and braoke up by government...neither action was taken. Wnron is an example of what happens when the market is left to weed out bad companies...and any fraud laws that went unprosecuted are the fault of the govt in bed with Enron, not the market itself, obviously. I'm not fooling anyone, because what I said is standard economics...look it up. Pollution and herd immunity are both ecternalities, one pos, one neg
@DeathofSpeech No you haven't witnessed deregulation to any large degree...we still have mostly a govt in bed with corporations...all the regulations meant ot monopolize are still there. You can't watch the repeal of pre-emptive blanket regulation and say that's de-regulation. For example, small farmers are regulated 4-6 times per year...even if no one has ever complained in 30 years of selling food. Don't wonder why there are factory farms then....
@DeathofSpeech Corporations lobby for more regulation than deregulation. It's called offensive lobying. They use reg's to squeeze out new competitors and take a free market and try and manipulate it back into what it tries to replace...mercantilism. So to assume they want no reg's is stupid...of course they want rules...rules that limit competition against the govt made monopoly (like mercantilism). People forget to READ history and economics before forming erroneous political opinions...
@DeathofSpeech So, now that I've dispelled your BS...reread my comment, and look at history and economics...you will see, I am right. Most, NOT ALL, regulationms are bought and paid for, and written by, the very corporations you complain about. It's a fact. So, most, not all, regulations do NOT address the externalities you complain about. Go look up any statist libtard economist you like, he will rail about externalities...problem is externality is largely perception. Regulate who need it only.
@DeathofSpeech If you think lack of regulations caused the collapse, not moral hazard, I question your grip on economics. Not even the statist liberal economist like Krugman and Reich claim that is the main cause. In fact, some of the regulations were the problem...like companies knowing they'd be bailed out no matter how many bad bets hey made...and what libtards do think was regulation, in many cases, is avoided by simply NOT being a backstop for failure. Read some, it's patriotic.
You can't legislate morality. You can only place legal restrictions on behavior. Presence of regulation does not guarantee compliance, but does impose consequences. Absence of regulation, guarantees that the scope of legally permissible actions will be exploited to the extent permitted. Removing restrictions on behavior, demands by the motivations of competition that the additional latitude be exploited.
@DeathofSpeech Most conservatives would agree with you. But regulation goes too far. The government shouldn't regulate mutually agreed contracts between two people, that should be up to the parties involved.
"The government shouldn't regulate mutually agreed contracts between two people, that should be up to the parties involved."
So the Truck System is acceptable to you?
You may not be familiar with the Truck System... A man could contract himself to pay a debt for an indefinite period of time, be paid less than was required to pay the debt and become an indentured slave.
Explain to me why government should not regulate contract law when not doing so has already been exploited ?
"A politician cannot let that happen. He must 'participate'. There is something there - money or political capital, doesn't matter. The country was moving in the correct direction, so politicians jumped onto the wagon."
Which must be why Blacks didn't gain the right to vote in Florida until '65?
You seem to think that government is an entity separate from the people.
The government may be imperfect, but the government serves at the public sufferance.
"This is because ALL regulations eventually are reversed,"
Finding yourself cornered by the failure of your own argument, rather than re-examine your argument, you resort to making shit up as you go along that's both self-contradictory and hilarious.
Both parties stand with AIG, BofA, Goldman Sachs, and Koch Brothers to name a few. Neither party supports or represents the people, they represent themselves and will never represent you. That's the point. They're there to protect the elite from letting the unwashed masses from getting too much power. It's the way the founding fathers would've wanted it.
@Christ724 YOu may have a point. Many Republicans do stand with big business, but no CONSERVATIVES do. THere is a difference between Republicans and conservatives. THe problem with the GOP is that there are not enough conservatives in it. No conservative supports bailouts. Republicans support corporate welfare (they are tools) - conservatives do not.
There are plenty of lousy Republicans - there are no good Democrats. More Republicans opposed TARP than supported it.
@jpav0923 Maybe the reason why the blue states are richer could be because of policies that the democrats enacted to soften the negative effects of capitalism.
@Christ724 C"mon. YOu can do better than that. LOL! There are no negative effects of capitalism. THe problem is that we do not have enough cpaitalism. CT & NY are blue states because its voters know that Dems are the party of the rich. States have almost no influence on the economy (other than right to work laws) and ZERO influence on monetary policy. We are basically a unitary form of government a la Britain.
RIch people know people like Chris Dodd & Barney Frank have their back.
What I don't understand is why every pissed-off citizen associated with one of these too-big-to-fail banks hansn't already closed their account and moved it to a more reputable bank, or even a small local credit union. If you're pissed off, why on earth are you puting up with this shit?
it wasn' the senators that lost the battle it was the people. DAmn it! co-opting popular labor uprising to the two party discourse from the very beginning! as if the democratic PARTY really gives a rat's about labor rights!
it wasn' the senators that lost the battle it was the people. DAmn it! co-opting popular labor uprising to the two party discourse from the very beginning! as if the democratic PARTY really gives a rat's about labor rights!
@Christ724 I would refer you to the Heritage FOundation's INdex of Economic Freedom. US has historically been #1 - today we are #14 (due to excessive regulation). Hong Kong is number two precisely becaues it does have capitalism (Singapore #1). The Chinese may be authoritarian thugs,but they certainly understand capitalism.
Hong Kong SAR most certaily does have a free market - if it didn't Heritage wouldn't rank their economy as being freer than ours. Beijing does not regulate their economy.
@ashide1 "Cite non-partisan, objective sources" OK, I cite the Heritage Foundation. I note you don't contest their data or conclusions. You make no attempt to claim anything I said was wrong (you can't). You make no attempt at rebuttal. Heritage has no connection with the GOP. It is a 501c3 nonpartisan think tank. It is conservative, but it is non partisan and objective (I used to work for them as a researcher and they discourage active politics). If they are wrong, tell me why. You can't.
@jpav0923 A conservative think tank is hardly an objective source. Peer-reviewed journals are what professionals use. "Heritage has no connection to the GOP." Are you a fucking idiot? They were founded by the GOP, are run by the GOP, funded by GOP constituents, and their president is a former Republican staffer and member of the House Republican Study Committee. Maybe read a little before shoving your foot so far in your mouth it comes out your ass.
@ashide1 I am familiar with the founding of Heritage (I used to work for them). Today, their fellows are discouraged from engaging in electoral poltics. I have read the code of conduct all employess sign. I do not deny that Heritage influences the GOP, but there is no formal connection. They are independent.
All Heritage studies are peer-reviewed. YOu don't know what you are talking about. Founded bgy GOP? Maybe? RUn by GOP? Absolutely not. Edwin Feulner was in RSC 30 years ago
@jpav0923 Being discouraged from engaging in electoral politics is one thing--using your ideology to create a slant in your research is another. Look at the Board of Trustees--all GOP'ers and nearly all have a big time finance background. Do you think guys who used to run Morgan Stanley have a vested interest in deregulation in financial markets (the same deregulation that led to the financial crisis)?? Uhh...of course they do. The Heritage Foundation and their research is simply tainted.
@ashide1 I do not deny there is a conservative slant at Heritage. Do you deny there is a liberal slant at Brookings? The people who run Morgan Stanley are liberals. John Mack and Phil Purcell are big-tim Democrat fundraisers.
Heritage goes where the facts lead. The facts state that bailouts do not work and flushing $787 billion in stimulus is bad policy.
Of course Heritage fellows have a background in finance - shouldn't they? Heritage railed against TARP - Wall St. bankers LOVE TARP.
@jpav0923 I'm with you on TARP, however, we should've never let deregulation allow banks to get too big to fail--a topic Heritage would be hard fought to cover. The facts may show that these spending policies didn't achieve their initial intentions, but we would have never had these problems without the lack of oversight due to the inherent conflict of interest of those in charge of overseeing the system. And yes, I do acknowledge the slant at Brookings and every other political think tank.
@ashide1 I think we are wrong to look at this in terms of GOP vs. Dem. I see it as a conservative vs. liberal. There are plenty of statists in the GOP who are in the back pocket of AIG/Goldman Sachs/Morgan Stanley. I have about as much love for these people as you do. I think GWB was sold a bill of good by Paulson and the rest of these frauds.
I don't disagree with you on your concerns about conflict of interest. We should let the free market work - Wall St does not lilke the free market
@jpav0923 Citing the Heritage foundation as a source for an argument is the equivalent to a Fox News host interviewing another Fox News host and calling them an expert haha. Laughable really.
@jpav0923 For further clarification I am an independent, not a Democrat. Barney Frank etc. make me just as sick with their part in the story. That said, my frustration is with the preponderance of the status quo led by the Republican Party. Lassez-faire economics have gotten us into this mess and their answer is nothing but more of the same. Maybe the rest of America is stupid enough to buy that, however, I'm not.
@jpav0923 Perhaps the Heritage Foundation is wrong? Just a thought because Hong Kong has universal healthcare, private property does not exist, businesses get subsidies and many other social programs are involved too but the gap is increasing drastically between the rich and the poor. Is that capitalism to you? To me it is a free market just like the U.S. has a free market but it isn't your ideal of a 'free market' it's just capitalism regardless.
@Christ724 You are just plain wrong and with all due respect don't know what you are talking about. THere most certainly is private property in HK and businesses do not receive subsidies- they are capitalist. Businesses (AIG) only receive subsides in socilaist countries like the US. Whether there is a gap between rich and poor has no relevence to me (who cares?)- let the market decide. The US does not have a free market and if you think so you don't understand the first thing about capitalism
@jpav0923 What the fuck are you talking about? We are capitalists, in fact, we've deregulated much more in the last 30 years, so technically, we're much more 'capitalist'. I mean, the amount of growth we've had was enormous! Problem is, that so have been the losses. We're all mixed systems now because if we were to have 'pure' capitalism we'd end up back in the late 19th early 20th century. Actually, just look at China if you want those types working conditions and that standard of living.
@Christ724 Would the mark to market accounting rules of Sarbanes-Oxley be an example of the deregulation of which you speak?
THe reason banks had liquidity problem was because of the firesale accouning policies of mark to market imposed on them from regulation. Were it not for mark to market there would never have been a liqudity crisis.
It is due to excessive regulation of Sarbanes Oxley that caused the crisis. It was a severe overreaction to Enron.Criminal fraud statutes were sufficient
Any group of people who can call themselves the OWNERS of a NFL franchise, the ONLY team that is owned by the "public", and are members in good standing of an American labor organization, are going to be a bitch to stop if some politician starts coming for their rights...
deetjay1 1 week ago
He is right people: united we will always win!now we gathered around Ron Paul and are fighting against powerful enemy: establishment with media it owns
Astra2012 1 month ago
Too many hand gestures Cenk! You need to be more like a senator.
hemeranox 1 month ago
not Bank of America, Chase, Wells Fargo all have been bailled out by THE FEDERAL RESERVE for the WHO that owns them and we are paying for their bills.....
TZMmary 2 months ago
wasnt fdr opposed to public sector unions?
lvll138inrs 2 months ago
anonymous are behind the arab spring
coolwifit 2 months ago
Please somebody knows the website of anonymous to be update about the things they doing now and in the future?....
croquystyle 2 months ago
@croquystyle anon doesnt post what they are doing because they are a loosely organized group of people. its best to think about them much like churches, they all have similar beliefs but they dont all commune with one-another on everything. if one group wants to do something they go and do it. they rarely ask for other groups help unless its a big project. most members of annon only know members in their own isolated group. the origin of anon is 4chan but i would NOT go to that site
CrustyOatmeal 1 month ago
Middle class being attacked yes, but let us not also forget the POOR who are, and for a long time now, not even able to afford to EAT.
Brenniman65 3 months ago
love you cenk
sgtmcwallace 3 months ago
People close your ( CHASE BACK ) ( BANK OF AMERICA ) WASHINGTON MUTUAL ) AND ( CITY BANK ) THEY ARE CHARGING YOU MONEY TO HAVE YOUR MONEY IN THEIR BANKS. WE MAKE THEM RICH AND THEY CHARGE US FOR IT O YEA THEY GOT MONEY OF OUR TAXES AND THEY CHARGE US TOO HELL NO I CLOSE MY ACCOUNT HERE IN ILLINOIS PEOPLE ARE CLOSING ACCOUNTS ITS YOUR TURN GO OPEN YOUR ACCOUNT IN YOUR LOCAL BANK
LAMBO8591 4 months ago 2
This has been flagged as spam show
@LAMBO8591 not Bank of America, Chase, Wells Fargo all have been bailled out by THE FEDERAL RESERVE for the WHO that owns them and we are paying for their bills.....
TZMmary 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
We are Anonymous.
We are Legion.
We do not forgive.
We do not forget.
DON'T EXPECT US... For we are already here...
YourFatherIsDad 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
h ttps://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions/%21/petition/examine-government’s-failure-investigate-and-prosecute-church-scientology-crime-fraud-and-abuse/L27wg021?utm_source=wh.gov&utm_medium=shorturl&utm_campaign=shorturl
PETITION AGAINST SCIENTOLOGY
We are Anonymous.
We are legion.
We do not forgive.
We do not forget.
Expect us.
mikilovesulots 5 months ago
I think Anonymous is agency run:
Why is it that they haven't asked about 9/11 and a real investigation?
Why we can't punish Bush, Cheney, Rummy, for treason?
Why we can't put those responsible for the economic mess under trial for treason?
The Koch brothers, anyone?
Why is there no protest in Washington?
Why we haven't focused any real attention to the problems on the boarder. Unless I'm missing something, they haven't mentioned any of these things.
ironwork92000 5 months ago
@ironwork92000 What are you doing?
ptbaines 5 months ago
@ironwork92000
Cant tell if troll or....
I dont think you understand what anonymous is....
mechazaowa 5 months ago
@ironwork92000 I would disagree with you. My personal belief is that ANONymous is run by Julian Assange. The group has always showed unwavering support for Assange and his causes. They started in the UK, Assange's current home. Their mascot, Guy Fawkes, is the main character of one of Assange's favorite series. Keep in mind that Mr. Assange is a skilled hacker, who was convicted in Australia and has hacked classified systems at the DOD and Pentagon.
LegionnaireEtrangere 5 months ago
@ironwork92000 These are important but secodary issues. Anonymous seems to want to hit where it hurts the most : MONEY. I do the same with my little possibilities by rejecting all notices from police, judges, courts and wowernments and peacefully NOT conscenting to color of law regulations, by-laws and statuts that are not the concern of human beings but adressed to persons i.e. corporarions, fictuous 14 amendement creations of wowernements. You are not a person. You are a Human Being.
usstropicana 3 months ago
i like anonymous and what they stand for, but I live in wisconsin and I like what scott walker did. my kid in MPS school system now has a school within budget, our city is now under budget for 2012 and his employment plan should work well too. it might have been wrong to bypass laws and make his law enacted so quickly but hell, it helped the state and I'm sick of paying for state employees pensions. they should pay for their own pension like everyone else
gb342002 5 months ago
This guy is an idiot.....
gam3rdude11 5 months ago
Gawd though, moral of the story NOBODY LIKED HIM!!!
Pillman5 5 months ago
. . . Well I'm motivated
Shadowrose54321 5 months ago
YouTube "The Money Masters"
slumberingsam 5 months ago
fuck the middle class. they love gov labeling people in corrupt judicial system a criminal w/o fair trials, framed evidence,etc.. we don't live in a free market economy. we live in a dictatorship where people are bought and sold. if you can buy the right powerful people you remain free, if you can't afford to do so you remain a slave. this country is a piece of shit!! Can't wait for it to crumble!
assman255 5 months ago
Maybe try comedy because you're a joke. What union are you a member of?
rmcfad1 5 months ago
Hey Cenk, you're a douchebag. Find a new job. You are just awful.
rmcfad1 5 months ago
funny how cenk the asshole has diisappeared what a moron
biggerturtle 6 months ago
Awww, poor Cenk got fired from MSNBC. Next time start sucking that Obama dick like the rest of the MSNBC crew and you might make something of yourself.
Freedan111 6 months ago
When wisconsin teachers lose their jobs, and end up homeless, begging on the streets, I laugh. Democrats are racists.
stkt1986 6 months ago
Haha! Wisconsin Unions lost. Cenk should be it Gitmo. Democrats are all racists !!
stkt1986 6 months ago
Hell ya you got that right
MizzShady 6 months ago
remember remember the 5th of November...
MrBloopatroopa 6 months ago
who the fuck wrote these captions? does anybody else notice this?
omgitsBUTZIE 6 months ago
@omgitsBUTZIE yeah, and ...Why are"young turks" always so old, lol. Life is full of questions. Maybe the Middle-Aged Turks just didn't sound as good, but this guy's gotta to be 45 yo, lol. Are they still young when they get hair plugs and that operation that suctions out the tummy tire? And why does the 'Anonymous' Group just use UN logo? If they are "DE-centralized" and what they say---- why are they using UN and global logos, etc. Hardly "de-central" lol?
westchesterny 6 months ago
discredited source. Young Jerk is zero.
pkpapers 6 months ago
hmm anonymous sounds like they want to make a differnece and thats what america needs
codeblack300 6 months ago 12
Comment removed
bakuganrule45 6 months ago
@AnonyFan
^^
FOLLOW THE ANONYMOUS TWITTER FAN PAGE FOR FREE AVITARS/GRAPHICS, AND UPDATES .<3
LONG LIVE ANONYMOUS !!
Girlanonymous666 6 months ago
robin hood is now "neo", and as neo we are, we will control you and your money as you have controlled us!
rukus100821 6 months ago
Joing "Virtual Resistance" group on facebook.
gdarapper 6 months ago
FreePatriotismDottcom
gdarapper 6 months ago
FUCK THE SYSTEM!!!!
King3Jose 6 months ago
Anonymous please hack combatarms and permanetly bring down their website they oppress people please im beginning you i need your help!
TOproFORthis 6 months ago
Live better, work union.
ASSASSINOC714 6 months ago
... We (Anonymous) will not be striked down through cyber means!!!
Artereptar 6 months ago
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wake up asia
they sell HIV in asia ( BAYER )
many people have HIV why?
bayer send to asian people HIV....sell in Pharmacy
cheCk in youtube Bayer sell HIV in Pkarmacy
We are Anonymous.
We are Legion.
We do not forgive.
We do not forget.
Expect us.
R3V0Lution1O 7 months ago
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We are Anonymous.
We are Legion.
We do not forgive.
We do not forget.
Expect us.
michaelandjohnvideos 7 months ago
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We are Anonymous. We do not approve of illegal acts unless absolutely necessary. WE ARE NOT TERRORISTS! We are activists! We are your neighbors who fight for freedom and justice throughout the world. Recently, there have been trolls and blackhats (hackers meaning only harm) claiming to be Anonymous that have been attacking us and our people. We will not stand for this! We are Anonymous, we are legion, we do not forgive, we do not forget, expect us!
whatis-theplan(dot)org
nastorrian 7 months ago
our government allows this bullshit to happen im glad anonymous fights for our rights, thats why i would fight for anonymous before the united states, the us has failed its people and its time anonymous takes its rightful place democracy has failed its time for another civil war, unfortunately if you want peace you must have war
codowner00 7 months ago
the contract overseas the lucky? wut?
mantis1mike 7 months ago
i live in wisconsin it was hectic this is not the end wisconsin is just the start
TheNEpatriotsrule1 7 months ago 20
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We are Anonymous.
We are Legion.
We do not forgive.
We do not forget.
Expect us.
plo24k 7 months ago
youtube should have a page that shows who "thumbs up" and who down.
I bet youll see all the feds there.
jaalul 7 months ago
No Cenk. You are wrong. The war is not against the Middle Class. It is against the Working class.
BuecherFuerAlle 7 months ago
Warren Buffet doesn't include Berkshire Hathaways income tax.
Salvysahagun 7 months ago
Why should tax payers fund unions?
Salvysahagun 7 months ago
Uh Oh.. Spagetti-O
oodlesofosz 8 months ago
You got it.
mbrushoff 8 months ago
Anonymous are nothing but thieves. They stole credit card info. from the PSN, and sold it to the highest bidder. They act like anarchists, but are actually so money hungry, and greedy that they steal from hard working middle of the road people. It figures that the young turds would have a man crush on them.
critter505 9 months ago
@critter505 No.
Orjmart 9 months ago
@Orjmart You're a fucking idiot if you think they are some kind of cyber anarchists.
critter505 9 months ago
@critter505 That wasn't anonymous. They've denied involvment in a message on their website.
Derekrife 9 months ago
@Derekrife Then they accepted responsibility.
critter505 9 months ago
@critter505 Your getting Anonymous confused with Politicians.
sykoness1 8 months ago
@critter505 Do you have your head so far up your ass you forgot to look at the facts? Any form of major news media is willing to pin anything they can on freedom fighting groups. Even if Anon stole money, what the hell would they do with the money? They don't have an international political party requiring money to put out propaganda, to sway officials. They are many, they are non. They are Anon.
bandgeekak87 8 months ago
@bandgeekak87 "freedom fighting groups" They're turdnuggets that were neglected as children, hence have nothing better to do than learn the ins and outs of computers, and steal money they didn't earn. I don't give a fuck about you, or what the news media says. And, what would they do with the money? Who knows, and who the fuck cares. I bust my ass to earn a living, and some turd burgler comes and steals it w/o having the balls to come and try to take it? fuck em!
critter505 8 months ago
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WE are anonymous
We are bitches
We fuck our mumas
We fuck our sisters
MC16960 10 months ago
We are Anonymous.
We are Legion.
We do not forgive.
We do not forget.
Expect us.
AnonymousRussian 10 months ago 2
Fuck Anonymous
watch?v=RnhnZfgkRYg
joserm 10 months ago
There is a war on the middle class and thankfully Wisconsin just won a major victory for the middle class with the defeat of Kloppenburg. Way to Go Wisconsin.
Freedan111 11 months ago
Wisconsin people did indeed voice their opinion. Prosser defeats Kloppenburg, which was basically a referendum that passed Walker's law.
SSGurgs 11 months ago
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Nice job on the video looks good. When you have time come visit my channel!
truehealthyproducts 11 months ago
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Nice job on the video looks good. When you have time come visit my channel!
simplechocolatediet 11 months ago
That is fucking awesome!
xinecallaw 11 months ago
That's right. If you want something done you have to do it yourself. If the people will lead, the leaders will follow. Now go get those banks!
HostileNegotiator 11 months ago
@bdelphan Just because the government uses force to monopolise X industry does not mean that X industry could not be provided voluntarily by peaceful people on the free market.
davyjames 11 months ago
We are Anonymous.
We are Legion.
We do not forgive.
We do not forget.
Expect us.
DerrenBrown100 11 months ago 163
@DerrenBrown100 We are Freedom.
Knowledge is Free.
Newbkakes 11 months ago
@DerrenBrown100 and don't touch our fucking cake. also hello /b/ro
bokprop420 10 months ago
@DerrenBrown100
"Having your name as your online handle is not very Anonymous....just sayin'"
chessmassacre 8 months ago
@DerrenBrown100 Their/His motto is so FUCKING EPIC
Psychiatrium 7 months ago
@DerrenBrown100 NOA >:C
mantis1mike 7 months ago
@DerrenBrown100 one more thing. we are them 40 year olds living in our mothers basement.
homiegskilletz 5 months ago
"The power is in the people in poilitcs we address".- 2Pac
whoiscarlito 11 months ago
@romanmir01
...and let me be more clear about this. The people who insisted on prejudice against blacks in the marketplace were rich white slave owners who cited the bible in court to justify slavery.
...and the ignorant bigots who bought that bullshit line of apologetics and continue to this day to embrace it, claiming that government conspired to take from them, that to which they were never entitled.
DeathofSpeech 11 months ago
@romanmir01
"It is much better if black youths are 85% employed, than when they are only 50% employed for the overall economy. Gov't created this problem."
Government?
No... popular prejudice by the white majority created the problem.
Legal processes, and government regulation making those prejudices forbidden in the marketplace are what has begun to turn the popular prejudice to an unwholesome stigma of bigotry.
Because sometimes the majority just doesn't do the right thing by itself.
DeathofSpeech 11 months ago
@DeathofSpeech Wrong.
Prohibition does not work. Copyright laws do not work. This is because there is no momentum behind those things by the majority of people. You cannot force a majority to do something by law they are completely against.
--
The black youth were 85% employed prior to 1965. Eventually after the civil rights act, which created a power imbalance, made it clear to small businesses that they can have too many problems with minorities because of the law, they stopped hiring them
romanmir01 11 months ago
@romanmir01
"Prohibition does not work"
Irrelevant... regulation does work.
"Copyright laws do not work."
Incorrect... They work as written. Intellectual property laws require less effort to enforce and are more effective than they have ever been... and they now protect the little guy, against the major corps that have stolen works with impunity for the sake of greed.
"The black youth were 85% employed prior to 1965."
At below a living wage... More Slavery.
DeathofSpeech 11 months ago
@DeathofSpeech Irrelevant, regulations do not work.
Your believes are not based in reality. People wanted alcohol and they got alcohol, gov't be damned. The only thing that achieved by gov't intervention was people like Al Capone got rich and people overpaid for booze.
Same with copyrights. The creative works are being shared left right and center without any regard to them, because to an average person it makes no sense to bother.
If people are not behind smth, it doesn't happen.
romanmir01 11 months ago
@romanmir01 Man, half your comments are great, and half are clownish.. what's going on?
Xerxes4242 11 months ago
@Xerxes4242 nobody is perfect.
romanmir01 11 months ago
@romanmir01 I am!:)
Xerxes4242 11 months ago
@romanmir01
"You cannot force a majority to do something by law they are completely against."
a) you are not the majority... you're a shill for a group funded by major corp who continue to repeat the lie that you are the majority, when you are not.
b) The Constitution has boundaries beyond which even a majority may not transgress. It may not for example adopt a theocracy, which is part and parcel of your agenda.
DeathofSpeech 11 months ago
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AeSaar 11 months ago
@AeSaar
The only important part is that people have generally transcended the morality of biblical text.
Their belief or lack thereof isn't relevant to being a decent person.
You're a decent person.
We can both agree without even bringing religion in as an issue, that society forbids things like murder and rape, because they damage the community.
We can also agree that whatever one believes, so long as it abides within the social morality, that belief/disbelief should be unfettered.
DeathofSpeech 11 months ago
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@DeathofSpeech PS to DoS: I do intend on responding to your PM.
The level of understanding required to talking about your perspectives requires far more thought than what is needed for the dribble I gladly serve cold to the willfully blind.
I need time to think about what you said and I will respond. :)
AeSaar 11 months ago
anonymous really................really..........
Wyndstarthedruid 11 months ago
How the hell is this guy not in jail yet?
PetrSMG 11 months ago
@PetrSMG are you talking about walker or cenk?
GuyFawkes501 7 months ago
Free trade = Migrant workers are unable to move freely and live in what used to be called company towns, where they are totally dependent and subject to abuses and deprivations. This is tyranny and a denial of human equality–and all of us are supporting it with our cheap I Pads and other electronic products. And yet we hear so much from our betters in the ruling class, along with their courtiers, that China is the model. Sure, if you don’t like freedom. Support only fair trade rules.
bestwayusa1 11 months ago
fuck yea, go anonymous! will trolling actually end up saving the world? ROFL
JunemM 11 months ago
@JunemM
If it did, that would be the biggest piece of trolling ever. Go Anonymous!
h2ons 11 months ago
That pig walker wont win!! the peoples will is stronger!!!
tommymaclaren2010 11 months ago
I would complain about them showing the "IE" logo for the web... But then I remembered it was the Microsoft Network Broadcasting Channel. lmao
frosty1433 11 months ago
An excellent news report!
shotox21 11 months ago
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Editorial, 11-4-2012:
Thanks Walker for waking up the lazy democrats from their sleep as only 30% even bothered to vote last time.
2012, you've now made a DEMO sweep as I bet more than 80% will be voting!
You woke a sleeping giant, you idiot!
Sincerely,
The GOP MINORITY
1911arthur 11 months ago
Good man.
AustralianBushman 11 months ago
Hey, rather than spending in bombing Libya yet another $8 billions, wouldn't it be better to spend those money at home?
zapparello 11 months ago 14
@zapparello No that would be a handout and we can't have that
Xerxes4242 11 months ago
@zapparello Nah because when this president spends money here people say he is babysitting slackers or turning the US into a socialist nation. So funny how many people ran around saying he was too indecisive and weak to take action in Lybia. But when he did take action those same politicians said he didnt consult them about it. Basically they wanted extra camera time to weigh in and say it was the conservatives who were ready to fight. Hypocrites who have done nothing since January 2011.
jnathan4life 11 months ago
@zapparello
Why, do you have a dictator slaughtering his own people in your home country?
calgarsfists 8 months ago
@calgarsfists No, I just see a bunch of idiots with big financial problems, pointlessly and prooflessly bombing the people of a foreign sovereign country.
zapparello 8 months ago
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I LOVE TO SEE TYT CENK ON MSNBC!!!
ITS AWESOME!!!!!!!!!
benympls 11 months ago
I LOVE TO SEE TYT CENK ON MSNBC!!!
ITS AWESOME!!!!!!!!!
benympls 11 months ago
@jpav0923
"You obviously have not read the book. Read the book and see if you figure it out."
When passages directly contradicting you are posted from your book you fail to respond.
Why is that?
When asked if like Joshua, you would kill a child with a sword, as your own bible says god commanded, you refuse to respond.
Lie by omission is still a lie.
Lying and evasion seem to be the order of the day for you.
Are you sure you're worshiping the right god?
DeathofSpeech 11 months ago
@DeathofSpeech I am referring to an Ayn Rand book. There is nothing that has contradicted me. There is nothing in the Bible that contradicts anything I have said either. Nothing - nada- zilch - zero. Only in your mind is there anything contradictory.
Are you off your meds or have you had too much Kool Aid today?
jpav0923 11 months ago
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@jpav0923
"There is nothing in the Bible that contradicts anything I have said either."
Since Aesaar has already posted some of the evidence and you've failed to respond, I'll put it down to a failure of reading comprehension on your part.
You've been a delight to work with and you've been extremely cooperative in exposing your ideology and agenda.
You serve your purpose very well.
You shall have cookies.
DeathofSpeech 11 months ago
@romanmir01
"you are wrong on all counts. First: free market existed and still partially exists today."
colourmegone quite correctly points out exactly the same things I've pointed out to you and I've watched you jump through hoops to refuse to understand that you've been lied to by whomever filled your head full of this shit.
"Also lasic eye surgery (and plastic surgery), where there is no gov't intervention,"
ROLF... you actually believe that isn't very strictly regulated?
DeathofSpeech 11 months ago 2
@romanmir01
"Free market is about choice of individuals to make their own decisions of-course."
Regulation is about where those decisions overlap the rights of other people.
If I own a plating factory, it is not my right to dump cyanide waste into the public drinking water source.
That is the purpose of regulation... to prevent your choices from damaging other people.
DeathofSpeech 11 months ago 29
@DeathofSpeech If there is a regulation, it means there are lots of people being extremely stupid and selfish don't care anybody else damaging others. Free market doesn't mean "You can being a stupid and selfish person". Obviously, we live in a world which honest people always have to deal with stupid everyday. Decent people KNEW it very well that free market is about choice and of course no harm to others at the same time.
rockandrollismylife 11 months ago
@rockandrollismylife
"If there is a regulation, it means there are lots of people being extremely stupid and selfish don't care anybody else damaging others."
Exactly.
A "free market" cant' exist.
Only a market that is equitably regulated maintains the freedom of those in that market.
Decent people aren't the problem...
Regulation is required precisely because some things are too important to leave to free choice... like whether the plating shop dumps cyanide waste into the drinking water.
DeathofSpeech 11 months ago
@DeathofSpeech The purpose of regulation is to effect the market to return it to "effeciency", by counteracting externalities. To assume those externalities aren't encouraged by a government in bed with the very companies they regulate is naive. In fact, most regulations are used for protectionism by large corporations, to prevent competition, and to assume near mercantilist monopolies. Very few address externality, and those that do cause other ones or are applied to all, not just law breakers.
ProIndividual 11 months ago
@ProIndividual
"The purpose of regulation is to effect the market to return it to "effeciency", by counteracting externalities."
Because Enron was "inefficient."
You're not fooling anyone anymore.
We've watched the long term effects of deregulation of various major corps... who lobbied heavily for that deregulation.
Now, if the regulations benefited them, why would they do that?
If regulation had been ineffective, why did deregulation result in abuses that turned the economy to shit?
DeathofSpeech 11 months ago
@DeathofSpeech Enron went bankrupt, they weren't bailed out or "executed" and braoke up by government...neither action was taken. Wnron is an example of what happens when the market is left to weed out bad companies...and any fraud laws that went unprosecuted are the fault of the govt in bed with Enron, not the market itself, obviously. I'm not fooling anyone, because what I said is standard economics...look it up. Pollution and herd immunity are both ecternalities, one pos, one neg
ProIndividual 11 months ago
@DeathofSpeech No you haven't witnessed deregulation to any large degree...we still have mostly a govt in bed with corporations...all the regulations meant ot monopolize are still there. You can't watch the repeal of pre-emptive blanket regulation and say that's de-regulation. For example, small farmers are regulated 4-6 times per year...even if no one has ever complained in 30 years of selling food. Don't wonder why there are factory farms then....
ProIndividual 11 months ago
@DeathofSpeech Corporations lobby for more regulation than deregulation. It's called offensive lobying. They use reg's to squeeze out new competitors and take a free market and try and manipulate it back into what it tries to replace...mercantilism. So to assume they want no reg's is stupid...of course they want rules...rules that limit competition against the govt made monopoly (like mercantilism). People forget to READ history and economics before forming erroneous political opinions...
ProIndividual 11 months ago
@DeathofSpeech So, now that I've dispelled your BS...reread my comment, and look at history and economics...you will see, I am right. Most, NOT ALL, regulationms are bought and paid for, and written by, the very corporations you complain about. It's a fact. So, most, not all, regulations do NOT address the externalities you complain about. Go look up any statist libtard economist you like, he will rail about externalities...problem is externality is largely perception. Regulate who need it only.
ProIndividual 11 months ago
@DeathofSpeech If you think lack of regulations caused the collapse, not moral hazard, I question your grip on economics. Not even the statist liberal economist like Krugman and Reich claim that is the main cause. In fact, some of the regulations were the problem...like companies knowing they'd be bailed out no matter how many bad bets hey made...and what libtards do think was regulation, in many cases, is avoided by simply NOT being a backstop for failure. Read some, it's patriotic.
ProIndividual 11 months ago
@ProIndividual
You can't legislate morality. You can only place legal restrictions on behavior. Presence of regulation does not guarantee compliance, but does impose consequences. Absence of regulation, guarantees that the scope of legally permissible actions will be exploited to the extent permitted. Removing restrictions on behavior, demands by the motivations of competition that the additional latitude be exploited.
Morality doesn't enter into it.
DeathofSpeech 11 months ago
@DeathofSpeech Most conservatives would agree with you. But regulation goes too far. The government shouldn't regulate mutually agreed contracts between two people, that should be up to the parties involved.
SSGurgs 11 months ago
@SSGurgs
"The government shouldn't regulate mutually agreed contracts between two people, that should be up to the parties involved."
So the Truck System is acceptable to you?
You may not be familiar with the Truck System... A man could contract himself to pay a debt for an indefinite period of time, be paid less than was required to pay the debt and become an indentured slave.
Explain to me why government should not regulate contract law when not doing so has already been exploited ?
DeathofSpeech 10 months ago
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@romanmir01
"A politician cannot let that happen. He must 'participate'. There is something there - money or political capital, doesn't matter. The country was moving in the correct direction, so politicians jumped onto the wagon."
Which must be why Blacks didn't gain the right to vote in Florida until '65?
You seem to think that government is an entity separate from the people.
The government may be imperfect, but the government serves at the public sufferance.
DeathofSpeech 11 months ago
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@romanmir01
"This is because ALL regulations eventually are reversed,"
Finding yourself cornered by the failure of your own argument, rather than re-examine your argument, you resort to making shit up as you go along that's both self-contradictory and hilarious.
DeathofSpeech 11 months ago 2
@romanmir01
"No, regulations come about when politicians get bought by one side, that wants to destroy competition"
Making things like that illegal and punishable is exactly what regulation is for.
Where do you get the idea that repeating the errors of the past should produce different results?
"Monopolies hate that, gov't creates them"
Monopolies are created by the concentration of power due to unregulated predatory practices.
Competition only exists where regulation prevents monopoly
DeathofSpeech 11 months ago
@romanmir01
"Greed of people, who allowed themselves to be BOUGHT with printed money"
...and yet you advocate exactly that system as the answer.
If there were no regulation then bribery wouldn't be illegal.
The fact that something is illegal does not prevent it from occurring, it just means there can be consequences designed to discourage it.
In a "free market" like you describe everything you want to do to make money is legal.
Which very quickly concentrates power in the hands of a very few.
DeathofSpeech 11 months ago
IE icon for the web? FAIL, cenk. shame on you.
Pelonetillo 11 months ago
I HEART ANON
elizabethhagar 11 months ago
I can't believe this aired on US cable TV!
emperorinsaino 11 months ago
@jpav0923 lol no
Both parties stand with AIG, BofA, Goldman Sachs, and Koch Brothers to name a few. Neither party supports or represents the people, they represent themselves and will never represent you. That's the point. They're there to protect the elite from letting the unwashed masses from getting too much power. It's the way the founding fathers would've wanted it.
Christ724 11 months ago
@Christ724 YOu may have a point. Many Republicans do stand with big business, but no CONSERVATIVES do. THere is a difference between Republicans and conservatives. THe problem with the GOP is that there are not enough conservatives in it. No conservative supports bailouts. Republicans support corporate welfare (they are tools) - conservatives do not.
There are plenty of lousy Republicans - there are no good Democrats. More Republicans opposed TARP than supported it.
jpav0923 11 months ago
@jpav0923 Maybe the reason why the blue states are richer could be because of policies that the democrats enacted to soften the negative effects of capitalism.
Christ724 11 months ago
@Christ724 C"mon. YOu can do better than that. LOL! There are no negative effects of capitalism. THe problem is that we do not have enough cpaitalism. CT & NY are blue states because its voters know that Dems are the party of the rich. States have almost no influence on the economy (other than right to work laws) and ZERO influence on monetary policy. We are basically a unitary form of government a la Britain.
RIch people know people like Chris Dodd & Barney Frank have their back.
jpav0923 11 months ago
What I don't understand is why every pissed-off citizen associated with one of these too-big-to-fail banks hansn't already closed their account and moved it to a more reputable bank, or even a small local credit union. If you're pissed off, why on earth are you puting up with this shit?
dookdawg214 11 months ago
@Rundstedt1 I wish. I don't need to be paid to have an opinion, asshole.
romanmir01 11 months ago
"Where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden--freedom is lost." -Ronald Reagan, September 30, 1980.
ashide1 11 months ago 19
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it wasn' the senators that lost the battle it was the people. DAmn it! co-opting popular labor uprising to the two party discourse from the very beginning! as if the democratic PARTY really gives a rat's about labor rights!
a THIRD Party!
valibal 11 months ago
it wasn' the senators that lost the battle it was the people. DAmn it! co-opting popular labor uprising to the two party discourse from the very beginning! as if the democratic PARTY really gives a rat's about labor rights!
valibal 11 months ago
@jpav0923 By the way...Hong Kong does not have a 'real' free market. In fact, they don't even have private property.
Christ724 11 months ago
@Christ724 I would refer you to the Heritage FOundation's INdex of Economic Freedom. US has historically been #1 - today we are #14 (due to excessive regulation). Hong Kong is number two precisely becaues it does have capitalism (Singapore #1). The Chinese may be authoritarian thugs,but they certainly understand capitalism.
Hong Kong SAR most certaily does have a free market - if it didn't Heritage wouldn't rank their economy as being freer than ours. Beijing does not regulate their economy.
jpav0923 11 months ago
@jpav0923 The Heritage Foundation is a Republican think tank. Cite non-partisan, objective sources when making arguments you want people to believe.
ashide1 11 months ago
@ashide1 "Cite non-partisan, objective sources" OK, I cite the Heritage Foundation. I note you don't contest their data or conclusions. You make no attempt to claim anything I said was wrong (you can't). You make no attempt at rebuttal. Heritage has no connection with the GOP. It is a 501c3 nonpartisan think tank. It is conservative, but it is non partisan and objective (I used to work for them as a researcher and they discourage active politics). If they are wrong, tell me why. You can't.
jpav0923 11 months ago
@jpav0923 A conservative think tank is hardly an objective source. Peer-reviewed journals are what professionals use. "Heritage has no connection to the GOP." Are you a fucking idiot? They were founded by the GOP, are run by the GOP, funded by GOP constituents, and their president is a former Republican staffer and member of the House Republican Study Committee. Maybe read a little before shoving your foot so far in your mouth it comes out your ass.
ashide1 11 months ago
@ashide1 I am familiar with the founding of Heritage (I used to work for them). Today, their fellows are discouraged from engaging in electoral poltics. I have read the code of conduct all employess sign. I do not deny that Heritage influences the GOP, but there is no formal connection. They are independent.
All Heritage studies are peer-reviewed. YOu don't know what you are talking about. Founded bgy GOP? Maybe? RUn by GOP? Absolutely not. Edwin Feulner was in RSC 30 years ago
jpav0923 11 months ago
@jpav0923 Being discouraged from engaging in electoral politics is one thing--using your ideology to create a slant in your research is another. Look at the Board of Trustees--all GOP'ers and nearly all have a big time finance background. Do you think guys who used to run Morgan Stanley have a vested interest in deregulation in financial markets (the same deregulation that led to the financial crisis)?? Uhh...of course they do. The Heritage Foundation and their research is simply tainted.
ashide1 11 months ago
@ashide1 I do not deny there is a conservative slant at Heritage. Do you deny there is a liberal slant at Brookings? The people who run Morgan Stanley are liberals. John Mack and Phil Purcell are big-tim Democrat fundraisers.
Heritage goes where the facts lead. The facts state that bailouts do not work and flushing $787 billion in stimulus is bad policy.
Of course Heritage fellows have a background in finance - shouldn't they? Heritage railed against TARP - Wall St. bankers LOVE TARP.
jpav0923 11 months ago
@jpav0923 I'm with you on TARP, however, we should've never let deregulation allow banks to get too big to fail--a topic Heritage would be hard fought to cover. The facts may show that these spending policies didn't achieve their initial intentions, but we would have never had these problems without the lack of oversight due to the inherent conflict of interest of those in charge of overseeing the system. And yes, I do acknowledge the slant at Brookings and every other political think tank.
ashide1 11 months ago
@ashide1 I think we are wrong to look at this in terms of GOP vs. Dem. I see it as a conservative vs. liberal. There are plenty of statists in the GOP who are in the back pocket of AIG/Goldman Sachs/Morgan Stanley. I have about as much love for these people as you do. I think GWB was sold a bill of good by Paulson and the rest of these frauds.
I don't disagree with you on your concerns about conflict of interest. We should let the free market work - Wall St does not lilke the free market
jpav0923 11 months ago
@jpav0923
"Wall St does not lilke the free market"
Wall street likes a market that is free enough to function, and regulated enough to remain functional.
I wonder how an entire industry manages to get by on only their education and experience without you to guide them...
DeathofSpeech 11 months ago
@jpav0923 Citing the Heritage foundation as a source for an argument is the equivalent to a Fox News host interviewing another Fox News host and calling them an expert haha. Laughable really.
ashide1 11 months ago
@jpav0923 For further clarification I am an independent, not a Democrat. Barney Frank etc. make me just as sick with their part in the story. That said, my frustration is with the preponderance of the status quo led by the Republican Party. Lassez-faire economics have gotten us into this mess and their answer is nothing but more of the same. Maybe the rest of America is stupid enough to buy that, however, I'm not.
ashide1 11 months ago
@jpav0923 Perhaps the Heritage Foundation is wrong? Just a thought because Hong Kong has universal healthcare, private property does not exist, businesses get subsidies and many other social programs are involved too but the gap is increasing drastically between the rich and the poor. Is that capitalism to you? To me it is a free market just like the U.S. has a free market but it isn't your ideal of a 'free market' it's just capitalism regardless.
Christ724 11 months ago
@Christ724 You are just plain wrong and with all due respect don't know what you are talking about. THere most certainly is private property in HK and businesses do not receive subsidies- they are capitalist. Businesses (AIG) only receive subsides in socilaist countries like the US. Whether there is a gap between rich and poor has no relevence to me (who cares?)- let the market decide. The US does not have a free market and if you think so you don't understand the first thing about capitalism
jpav0923 11 months ago
@jpav0923 What the fuck are you talking about? We are capitalists, in fact, we've deregulated much more in the last 30 years, so technically, we're much more 'capitalist'. I mean, the amount of growth we've had was enormous! Problem is, that so have been the losses. We're all mixed systems now because if we were to have 'pure' capitalism we'd end up back in the late 19th early 20th century. Actually, just look at China if you want those types working conditions and that standard of living.
Christ724 11 months ago
@Christ724 Would the mark to market accounting rules of Sarbanes-Oxley be an example of the deregulation of which you speak?
THe reason banks had liquidity problem was because of the firesale accouning policies of mark to market imposed on them from regulation. Were it not for mark to market there would never have been a liqudity crisis.
It is due to excessive regulation of Sarbanes Oxley that caused the crisis. It was a severe overreaction to Enron.Criminal fraud statutes were sufficient
jpav0923 11 months ago